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Home My WebLink Aboutclosed_caption17:55:56 The way it's organized is by articles, so article 1 is kind of an intro, article 2 is administrative provisions, that includes general exemptions, which will come up later in our conversation. 17:56:01 Then Articles 3 through Article 7, umâ¦ 17:56:05 piece out the requirements, the protection standards for our various critical areas. That includes our critical aquifer recharge areas, where the water comes back into the aquifers, and then we drink it via loads. 17:56:17 Frequently flooded areas, commonly around, uh, rivers, or geological hazardous areas, our fish and wildlife habitat conservation areas, aka streams and ponds and other things. 17:56:29 And then our wetlands. 17:56:31 Then our agriculture section is found in Article 8, and then Session Reports is found in Article 9. 17:56:39 Slidesâ¦ 17:56:42 So this slide, we don't have to go over all this, this shows what we've done so far. We've hadâ¦ 17:56:48 I believe, uh, this shows 7 workshops with the Planning Commission, where we've brought draft material of code, we've brought old versions of these, um, comparison tables, we brought some comments from Fish and Wildlife, we've brought some memos from consultants. 17:57:05 All those kind of mapped out here, including various, um, communications we've had with departments. 17:57:11 Um, review from the prosecution's attorney's office. This is all something that you can look at as, uh, you're the process. And the next slide shows where we're not and we're going. Here we are today! 17:57:24 I'm hearing, we're hoping at the next meeting to deliberate. Ideally, 17:57:29 Our goal would be to take mission as they're able to, to make a decision on the 21st. 17:57:35 Which will allow us to initiate another, um, 17:57:39 review from the, uh, prosecuting Attorney's office as needed, and then sendâ¦ 17:57:44 All of our work to the Board of County Commissioners in February. 17:57:49 Oops, sorry. 17:57:51 So, why are we updating the code? 17:57:55 What are our goals in doing so? Well, first, we have to update it. 17:57:59 Because the state requires us to. 17:58:02 Um, we have to update it to meet their new requirements. 17:58:06 But we have other goals. 17:58:09 Um, for our community, for our permitting process, that we've highlighted as weâ¦ 17:58:15 make edits. And if you don't understand what our goals are, that'll help you identify 17:58:22 the various types of changes that are made, which will help you to put it in buckets to say, this isn't important, if they're just changing a word, or they're just changing, um, uhâ¦ 17:58:32 like, whether or not we put a period there, they're just making a decision about that, as opposed to, 17:58:37 actual changes that affect day-to-day lives. 17:58:41 So, one thing we're doing is we're going through regulatory reform. That's to streamline language and to make sure that our code from the beginning to end 17:58:49 reads as one unit by document, even though it's written by a gazillion people from different points in time with different vocabularies. 17:58:57 We need to make it, um, fit as one document. 17:59:01 We also need to change conflicting and subjective language. Sometimes our code, um, will say, well, you need to do a good job of replacing yourâ¦ replacing your buffer, but that's not good enough, because good job to someone else may not be a good job to someoneâ¦ to the other person. 17:59:19 Um, along those same line, one of our goals is to reduce the administrators' authority in buffer reductions. This is kind of an example of fixing subjective language. We have various sections in our code where it says that 17:59:32 The administrator can reduce the buffer, 17:59:35 On a case-by-case basis, which isâ¦ it's Greg, by the way. So, Greg makes the call. 17:59:39 And we need to make sure that our permitting process is fair and efficient. That's one of our comprehensive plan goals. To be fair, we need to make sure that we're proving 17:59:50 that it is fair, so that when Greg makes a call, he's referring back to a code. 17:59:54 And that helps us with our efficiency, so that everyone going through the process knows what they're going to run into. 18:00:00 Moving onâ¦ 18:00:04 Now we're gonna break it up even further. We have today's goals. 18:00:08 And then goals for our next meeting today, our goals are really to transmit these documents to you as this paper. 18:00:17 to help you, um, be prepared to read it over the next few weeks in preparation for the 7th. 18:00:23 So don't feel like you had to have it all understood by the time you came here today. 18:00:27 Um, and then, obviously, we're here to hear public comments, so I want to get through this 18:00:33 presentation as quickly as possible to get onto that. 18:00:35 Um, our goal seems to be on the 7th will be to summarize comments provided. 18:00:42 And provide suggested language based on those comments, umâ¦ 18:00:47 And then to start the planning commission deliberating on that. 18:00:53 This is a great slide. We're gonna talk more now about, um, regulatory reform. 18:01:00 You don't have to read this. The only reason I have this up here is so thatâ¦ 18:01:05 You can feel how I felt when I first opened up. 18:01:09 The, um, the red line document after we got it back from the PAO, the prosecuting Attorney's Office, there's a lot of very small changes. They were scattered throughout. They were important, and I'm really grateful that they're there. They're basically editing our work and making sure it, um, makes sense. 18:01:26 But it can look crazy when you first open it up, and to me, I was like, what are theyâ¦ are they rewriting our code? Are theyâ¦ 18:01:33 you know, putting in hidden things into our code and requirements I didn't know about. 18:01:38 No, they're justâ¦ 18:01:40 unifying the code from beginning to end. So, as we're all looking through these documents in the next two weeks, look for that kind of situation. Look forâ¦ 18:01:50 a few word changes that don't actually change anything. And just ask yourself, what does this change? And that can help you differentiate between what you don't need to pay attention to, what you don't need to spend your time on, and what you do. 18:02:07 So, one, to contrast, one thing that we did spend time on was, uh, site potential tree heights, which is still a term I have to go back to every time, I can't say it correctly. Um, site potential tree height isâ¦ 18:02:22 a recommendation that the Department of Fish and Wildlife made. They recommend that we base our buffers on the potential height of a tree. 18:02:33 Um, based on soils. So, thisâ¦ 18:02:37 Map is an example of that, kind of in the Oak Bay area, outside of Port Hubba. 18:02:42 Here's our blue streams. The yellow represents the line. 18:02:47 Uh, the different, you know, give different areas, different types of sortels. 18:02:51 So what that means is thatâ¦ 18:02:55 on theâ¦ okay, I was gonna be a bigger parcel. On this parcel right here, which is probably a bunch of forestry company, 18:03:03 The buffer here in this throat type? 18:03:06 We'll have a different set of potential tree height, and so the bucket would be different here than it is over here. It could be 72 feet here, it could be 198 feet. 18:03:16 Over here, just depending on which side of theâ¦ 18:03:19 The soil line, the imaginary soil line you live on, or you want to put your house on, 18:03:24 So, in response to that recommendation, we had a consultant company called Shannon & Wilson create a memo. 18:03:34 that does the following things. It responded to Fish and Wildlife's recommendations to use site potential tree heights. 18:03:42 It discussed the difficulty of doing that. It's very hard. 18:03:45 For anyone in the public to know what their buffer's gonna be like on a property they're looking to buy, orâ¦ 18:03:51 property they already own, and it's difficult for staff to determine what that button will be quickly. 18:03:59 Um, then we also looked at how other jurisdictions were choosing to respond to this. Were they choosing to accept that recommendation and then go with it, or were they choosing some kind of compromise? 18:04:13 And then, uh, this memo also then lays out all of the different options and recommends 18:04:20 A larger but standard buffer situation. 18:04:24 And so, I'd encourage you to go back to that memo and read through it. Hopefully this can give you 18:04:30 some kind of background as we do so. We can skip to the next slide. 18:04:34 Because this is what we came up with based on that. 18:04:38 Here we have our different types of streams and ponds. Habitat Conservation Areas. 18:04:44 The existing buffers, and then the proposed buffer. 18:04:48 So, right now, non-fish-bearing strains have a buffer of 50 or 75 feet, depending on how 18:04:57 the string is. That proposed offer is 100 feet, no matter the grade. 18:05:02 Fresh bearing streams currently have a buffer of 150 feet. 18:05:07 The proposed buffer is 200 feet in our rural counting areas, and 150 feet in urban growth areas such as Port Hadlock and Lammards, such as Burning. 18:05:18 Charlotte, may you go ahead? Sorry. Yeah, go ahead. What is the LAMIRD? Yes. Limited Area of More Intense Rural Development. 18:05:27 It gives us some flexibility to say this area has historic 18:05:34 community, and we can't just say that they need to be, you know, one parcel 18:05:40 Her 5-acre, there, and so we have different zonings that allow for rural village centers. Um, CoolScene is a really good example of that. 18:05:50 And so, it's light, a UGA, and it's also like a rural county, it's kind of in between there. 18:05:59 UTA's urban growth area. Yes. 18:06:02 Do both of those, uh, classifications have a certainâ¦ 18:06:07 Like, acreage associated with them? 18:06:10 Theyâ¦ they don't. 18:06:12 Herbic growth areas sometimes do. Go ahead. 18:06:16 At the same time. Could youâ¦ can you repeat that? 18:06:19 Lands do notâ¦ landlords are usually zoned, rural, village center. 18:06:24 Urban growth areas do, depending on where you're at. 18:06:28 Um, and we are currently changing some of that zoning and what that looks like. And so it's a little unclear. 18:06:34 So, currently for the UGAs, does it depend onâ¦ 18:06:39 What city or town it's in, or is it, I guess you said if those were different, so what does that depend on? 18:06:46 Currently. It's a zoning determination. Okay. And the only one that this will apply to, the only urban growth area that this will apply to, is Port Havelock. 18:06:56 And that is, you know, within 200 feet of sewer. 18:07:01 As it's available. 18:07:04 Uh, Devin, just for your benefit, 18:07:06 Um, Lambert, to my understanding, Greg or anybody, if you see me correct me if I'm wrong, 18:07:12 are afforded a little bit more flexibility when it comes to things that have to do with infrastructure. 18:07:17 like a sewer system. 18:07:21 Many MDGAs were set up under the Growth Management Act, 18:07:23 So, and are very specific. 18:07:26 And then aren't changed. And Fort Townsend only has two of them. You know, Fort Townsend, 18:07:32 And we have, or padlocked UGAs. 18:07:35 But Fort Townsendâ¦ 18:07:37 Uh, sorry, Jefferson County only has two. Yes, thank you. 18:07:41 Um, but Fort Townsend has their own rules. 18:07:44 We are the County Planning Commission, so we're onlyâ¦ that's why Emily said that it onlyâ¦ we're only looking at the Port Havoc community. 18:07:54 Many of the UTAs, as you said, the changes that are going to be made, what areâ¦ what are these changes that are happening? I'm not on the team that'sâ¦ that's doing that. Um, I know that Joel's leading that, so you can reach out to him, and he'll be coming to the Planning Commission to 18:08:10 discuss those as well. Thank you. 18:08:14 So, the side strings, we also have ponds and lakes. 18:08:19 Right now, if the body of water is under 50 feet, it's called a pond, and it'sâ¦ oh, sorry, if the body of water is under 20 acres, it's called a pond, 18:08:30 And it has about 50 feet. If it's over 20 acres, it's called a lake, and it has a buck around 100 feet. 18:08:36 With the caveat that sirloin lengths are regulated by a different code, so it doesn't apply 18:08:43 The proposed changesâ¦ 18:08:44 Um, make that buffer dependent on whether or not it is attached to a fish-bearing stream, because 18:08:51 If it has fish in it, and it's attached to a stream, then is it functioning as a stream that supports fish habitat, or does a pond that has a differentâ¦ 18:09:01 Wildlife and bird habitat. 18:09:03 So, um, if it's connected to a non-fish stream, and all the butter up at 100 feetâ¦ 18:09:11 which is connected to a fish stream, you'll have about 1,500. 18:09:15 And, uh, it'll have a buffer of 100 feet, if not 92 inches straight. 18:09:19 Let me move on to that. 18:09:22 Now, are there any questions before we move on to buffer averaging? You know, I'm gonna try to slide through these quicker. 18:09:28 Uh, yes, and we'll go to the left. 18:09:31 Um, just because there's a question earlier fromâ¦ 18:09:34 Um, Julie. Maybeâ¦ 18:09:36 And I know Greg explained this earlier, but maybe we could just rephrase 18:09:40 how those properties are existing and ongoing agriculture with current farm operation has been going on. 18:09:47 10 years or 100 years? Yeah, we'll discuss that later at the end of the presentation. 18:09:52 I was just curious at how your new proposed buffers, what those are based on. Like, what data are youâ¦ 18:10:01 reflecting on that's indicating that bucklers need to change from what they currently are. 18:10:06 Do you want to answer that, Greg? Sure. 18:10:11 the site potential tree height would have a lot bigger buffers. 18:10:14 And so we basically use a, uhâ¦ 18:10:19 the 200 feet isâ¦ 18:10:21 kind of what the best available science is telling us that we should go to. 18:10:25 We do have built into our code that you can reduce a DAO of 25%. 18:10:31 So we're basically to stay at the same 150, 18:10:34 We're just saying that you have to have 18:10:37 like, either well-vegetated or a fully vegetated buffer toâ¦ 18:10:41 keep the curve buffer. 18:10:43 what's the best available science? Like, how's that defined? 18:10:47 Best available science is peopleâ¦ 18:10:51 The agencies will writeâ¦ 18:10:53 different sites, and then you'll have to look at all the different signs and decide what scientists you agree with and what college you don't. 18:11:02 though we have two different sciences. One's WDFW gave us theâ¦ 18:11:07 So, potential tree height is 2018. 18:11:10 And then we have other best available science done by our consultant and other consultants that say that maybe that's not the best available science. 18:11:18 So it's kind of aâ¦ I think it's somewhat subjective. 18:11:22 But it's something that peopleâ¦ 18:11:25 You just have toâ¦ you have to show your work and say why youâ¦ 18:11:30 did one way or the other way. 18:11:31 And that's whyâ¦ 18:11:33 And that's why we, um, had the consultant company, Shannon and Wilson, create the memo that was filed in May, so if you want a copy of that, I'm happy to forward that on to anyone. 18:11:47 come contact me afterwards, and we can write down your email, I'll send that out afterwards. Well, I have a question about the buffer. Julie, I'm gonna let you ask your question, but then I wantâ¦ I want to be able to move forward, because we have a lot to do tonight, and thisâ¦ this presentation is really a question-asking, so I'm gonna let you ask it. 18:12:04 I want everybody to know thatâ¦ Well, I can ask it later. 18:12:07 Okay. Okay. 18:12:10 To zoom throughâ¦ 18:12:12 This shows our doctor averaging situations, current, and proposed. 18:12:17 Essentially, we are standardizing, buffer averaging, requiring enhancement or management plan, a well-budget software, fully vegetated buffer. Let's move on there. 18:12:28 Um, additionally, instead of averaging the buffer, which is where you say, okay, I need 25% less in this spot right here, but I'll give you 25% more over in a different spot, 18:12:40 Instead of that, you can reduce that only when you're not willing to buffer averaging is impossible. 18:12:47 And again, we've standardized the process for that. 18:12:51 Moving beyond streams and wetlands, we head into the Shoreline Bluffs, St. Palm. 18:12:59 kind of landslide hazard areas. 18:13:02 This page talks about each year and general work that we've done as a department and with the Prosecuting attorney's Office to clean up this section of code. 18:13:12 We clarify whatulations, um, are required and which kinds of geologically hazardous areas, say, 18:13:19 Erosion hazard versus high landslide hazard. Those have different requirements. 18:13:24 But our code isn't always clear on that. Um, we prescribe a step after development, let's propose the toe of the bluff. 18:13:34 Which is great, we didn't have anything before, it just saidâ¦ 18:13:37 You may be required to have a geotechnical report done, which doesn't help us at all as a department, or help the community when they're figuring out what 18:13:46 they have to do. Um, so we cleaned up conflicting language, and thenâ¦ 18:13:52 Adding restrictions specifically for public facilities and utilities that have to be placed in these areas, um, especially seismic areas or tsunami areas. 18:14:03 They're only allowed, if necessary, and there are some restrictions that we've clarified. 18:14:09 We've also reformatted. 18:14:11 Um, this entire section, and this is important, because when you're gonna go look through Article 5, Geologically Hazardous Areas, 18:14:19 You're going to see, uh, basically a complete red document, but most of that's just because we've moved code around. 18:14:27 The existing code 18:14:30 has 16 subsections, which means it says, geologically hazardous areas, items 1 through 16. 18:14:37 We've, uh, reformatted that so that it's easier to find what you're looking for and to know that your project 18:14:45 falls under this category, or in this category, or both of them. 18:14:49 Um, so it's split up into four categories. 18:14:52 General standards, which apply to erosion and landslide hazards. 18:14:57 All limits and hazards, thenâ¦ 18:14:59 Riverside Hazard Protection Areas for moderate to high landscape hazards, which is where our buffer information is held, which applies to, uh, most cases that we see that come into the office. If someone wants the bills, they want to build 50 feet from a shoreline bluff, 18:15:14 We have to have a geotechnical report that says thatâ¦ 18:15:18 that willâ¦ that citing development that close willâ¦ 18:15:22 Protect the development, and protect the black. 18:15:25 Then we have very small sections down here, the seismic hazard protection, same with a tsunami. 18:15:31 hazard protection standards. Move on. 18:15:35 Moving on to the wetlands. 18:15:37 Um, here's our wetland buffers, none of this is changing. This is just to familiarize yourself. 18:15:43 Got 4 different categories. 18:15:46 And, um, all of this information, the category and the habitat score is determined through a wetland elimination report. 18:15:54 And then that determines the appropriate bus part of me. Yes, they turn the light down a little, it really is almost hard to see here. 18:16:03 It's only forward or not bad. We can try it. I think it's gonna get very darn pretty fast. 18:16:10 Well, thank you. I like it. I'm not sureâ¦ how do we feel about for those who are taking notes, is this okay? Now, that might be better, though. There we go. Okay, no, thank you. 18:16:28 So these are the same bumpers, and moving onâ¦ 18:16:32 This slide shows that we've also standardized our buffer averaging for wetlands. 18:16:38 Andâ¦ or about reduction for wetlands. What I love about this is that it matches fish and wildlife habitat. 18:16:44 conservation area, um, averaging and reductions, so that you're really just memorizing one thing, and it applies to both. 18:16:54 Part of this, um, part of the changes to both the Fish and Wildlife Habitat Conservation Areas. 18:17:01 buffers, and the wetland buffers is that we've included new terminologies. 18:17:06 I've got them up here. We've, uh, we've included a habitat enhancement plan. 18:17:12 Which, um, is kind of like a soft habitat. 18:17:17 Management plans, remember the close-up. 18:17:19 Um, so the habitat enhancement Plan, 18:17:23 It is defined as a plan developed by a qualified individual to achieve the required enhancement. 18:17:29 Typically includes and is centered around a planting plan. So if someone wants to submit a planting plan, 18:17:34 we can accept that without requiring a biologist to come out. 18:17:38 Um, every year for 5 years to ensure that's completed. We can work directly with the applicant to accomplish that. 18:17:44 That's our goal, is creating this enhancement plan. 18:17:49 We've also, um, included the term well-vegetated buffer and fully vegetated buffer. Greg touched on this, uh, that part of our goal 18:18:00 Uh, the end goal is to not see a lot of buffer, 18:18:05 The increase in Bucker Creek? 18:18:07 But to maintain standard buffers that we've put in place, we put in place in the last two updates, being 2020 or 2008. 18:18:17 And the way we get back to that original buffer, the 150 meter, or whatever it is, isâ¦ 18:18:24 through revegetating the buffer, ensuring that either it's a well-vegetated buffer with 40% 18:18:30 burial cover maybe native trees, or fully medicated hay cover with 80% cover of native trees. 18:18:39 Agriculture. I'm going to talk a little bit about this, and then refer back to Greg, who spent more time in this article than I have. 18:18:48 Um, existing agriculture is exempt under a general exemptions, so we're not going to go in and say, oh, the buffers increased, and it's increased into your existing form. 18:18:59 Therefore, you have to change what you're doing. That's notâ¦ 18:19:03 going to happen, existing agriculture is exempt from that buffer creep. 18:19:09 through our general exemptions code, which is found in Article 2. 18:19:14 Now, if you say agriculture is usually either zoned as agriculture or in an agriculture program, 18:19:21 And has not been abandoned. 18:19:24 Or at least for more than 5 years who think, right? Who's just from a beta? 18:19:29 Um, now new agriculture is subject to the agriculture standards, or the, um, performance-based standards, as that's the term used in 18:19:39 In theâ¦ in the section of the code, or the prescriptive standards, which is theâ¦ which is what's used for, like, residential development and everything else. 18:19:48 If necessary. 18:19:50 And then you can go through the same process as everyone else to decrease that buffer through revegetating and enhancement plan, or through a task. 18:20:00 As well. 18:20:01 And then, umâ¦ 18:20:05 Uh, Greg, what do I mean to add that the postcode has been reviewed by NRCS, you know, the Natural Resource Conservation Service. 18:20:12 Greg, do you have anything to add about this section? 18:20:18 Now, agriculture is something that'sâ¦ 18:20:21 If you think about it, if you have something that's 18:20:25 been cleared or extended barred? 18:20:29 Everything's allowed to continue and be maintained. 18:20:33 And so you can switch crops, you could do whatever you're doing out there. 18:20:38 But if you think about it, if you had a wetland, 18:20:43 with fully vegetated trees and shrubs, and it's a natural area. 18:20:48 the idea that you would say, okay, well, I want to clear this and make it into ad, 18:20:55 this doesn't make sense, and so if you wanted to do that, 18:20:58 You would have to go through, I think it's the section 18:21:03 Article 8, which we have a template that we came up with 18:21:09 In the 2020, 18:21:11 update, and weâ¦ and that's the process that if you wanted toâ¦ 18:21:15 to new ag activities withinâ¦ 18:21:18 critical areas. 18:21:20 Okay, let me skip. 18:21:23 So the next oneâ¦ that's our ending slide, but after that, I just wanted to say what Greg has already said. 18:21:29 All comments received, including the ones received today, and then the ones that were received earlier today or yesterday, will be addressed at the following Planning Commission meeting, which is scheduled for January 7th. So you can meet us here again January 7th. 18:21:46 At 5.30 to make sure that your comments spoken today were actually, um, actually affected 18:21:52 change into the code, though. 18:21:54 That is the end of my presentation. 18:21:59 So, I know myself and this gentleman behind me had an opportunity to ask some questions. I just wanted to make sure that she had the opportunity as well. Yeah, Julie, if you want to ask your question. 18:22:13 Hello. Thank you for having us here tonight. 18:22:16 Um, yeah, I'm a farmer, and I know that there's minimal to a lot of stuff. 18:22:21 exemptions for us, but I'm concerned about why the buffer widths are soâ¦ 18:22:27 are so wide, for any of them, and are they mandatory? 18:22:33 Uh, for you guys. Uh, and the tree height. How does that matter? 18:22:38 As far as submitting. If you've got a treeâ¦ 18:22:42 planted, you know, 10 feet from the bank, or whatever. 18:22:46 Uh, why should the hype of it matter? 18:22:51 The, uhâ¦ 18:22:54 If you go to the NRCS, the soil survey, you'll have a 100-year site index, and there's 200-year site index. 18:23:03 Uh, what is the NSCâ¦ whatever that said? Odin, Natural Resource Conservation District, or the soilâ¦ 18:23:11 So, conservation district, they have a soil map, and they'll say this type of 18:23:18 If this type of soil, 18:23:20 The largest tree that would grow in 100 years would beâ¦ 18:23:25 like, 94 feet, and they have one for 200 years. 18:23:29 And so what the NRCâ¦ with the Fish and Wildlife wanted, 18:23:34 was to say, let's pretend, like, 18:23:36 people don't exist, 18:23:38 And that everything goesâ¦ the old growth stageâ¦ stages, and we're gonna go to downtown Seattle, and we're gonna say toâ¦ 18:23:47 This area by Seattle could have this type of tree, and it's 194 feet, soâ¦ 18:23:53 you should manage that whole life fairly area. 18:23:56 And we didn't agree withâ¦ 18:23:58 that that was good for what Emily showed, that the soils can change, 18:24:04 And we already have pretty big buffers right now. 18:24:08 What we're trying to do is come up with something that works for us, so when you're doing a critical area code, you have to make sure it meets 18:24:17 best available sites, so you have to use sites that's out there thatâ¦ 18:24:23 vetted. Yeah, I understand all that, and, you know, a lot of times, the best available science isn't always 18:24:31 just, uh, who has actuallyâ¦ 18:24:34 observed that for years and years, and just basically led to science come out there that's there. 18:24:41 theory to do it. 18:24:43 I understand that. But there's no needâ¦ 18:24:46 to have aâ¦ Julie, you can make that comment later? No. No, I'll make it now, because I've gotâ¦ Julie? Really. I need you toâ¦ I needâ¦ we need to be able to move on, hang on. 18:24:57 We really need to move on. If you want to make that comment, Iâ¦ I support you, and that's what the hearing's for, so that's what we're trying to get to. If you had a question about theâ¦ what we're talking about, that's why I'll try toâ¦ No, I believe that's what it was. Okay. Great, awesome. And to alsoâ¦ 18:25:16 Uh, with all these permitting and stuff, how canâ¦ 18:25:20 the, uh, assured that the firm is that they need to get. 18:25:24 in this are processed in a timely manner. 18:25:29 All right, thank you. Um, okay. So, I think we start the hearing, is that correct? 18:25:38 All right. I have theâ¦ I have a script that I'm gonna read. 18:25:48 Um, I have a script that I'm gonna read that's opens the hearing. The hearing has special properties. 18:25:54 So I'm setting the stage for this special period of time where all of your comments will be recorded in the record for the decisions that we're gonna make. 18:26:05 Um, so that's why I'm trying to preserve that. The specialness of this moment. Um, I do have to say, this is the longest trip I've ever seen. So, umâ¦ 18:26:17 I will read it. So here we go. 18:26:20 Um, I declare that this public hearing isâ¦ 18:26:24 open. The public hearing is now open regarding the proposed amendments to the Critical Areas Ordinance. 18:26:32 Jefferson County is updating itsâ¦ 18:26:34 Critical areas or critical area ordinance, DAO. 18:26:38 To strengthen regulations in alignment with the best available science, and to approve the document's layout, clarity, and usability, and I would add 18:26:48 Um, to make sure that we're in accordance with state law. 18:26:53 The county last completed a comprehensive, uh, CAO update in March of 2020. 18:27:00 The effort incorporated reviews of best available science, BAS, 18:27:05 Including the county's BAS record developed during the 2008 update, which was the previous update, reports prepared by environmental science associates, Inc., 18:27:19 In 2015 and 2016, and typical white papers prepared by Burke, who was a consulting firm that works for Jefferson County. 18:27:29 In 2019. The primary purpose of the current update is to address changes in rest available science that have emerged 18:27:36 Since 2020. A key issue under consideration is whether fish and wildlife habitat conservation areas 18:27:44 should continue to be managed using 18:27:49 Using stream typeâ¦ 18:27:52 I'm sorry. 18:27:57 A key issue under consideration is whether fish and wildlife habitat conservation areas should continue to be managed 18:28:03 Using stream-type buffers, the current method, or whether Riterion ecosystems adjacent to waterways should be explicitly designated as critical areas. 18:28:16 This riparian approach is outlined in the WDFW Washington, uh, 18:28:23 Can you do the acronym for me? Well, I was going to say, there's no S in there, that's what threw me. Um, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, there we go. 18:28:33 Um, uhâ¦ 18:28:35 This right here in approach is outlined in the WDFW Riparian Ecosystems Volume 1, 18:28:42 Science, synthesis, and management implications, published May of 2018, updated July of 2020. 18:28:50 To support this evaluation, Shannon and Wilson, another 18:28:55 contractor. 18:28:57 Um, prepared a technical memo dated May 13th, 2025, reviewing the relevant WDFW literature. 18:29:05 Additional revisions to the CAO focus on enhancing readability and usability of the document, 18:29:13 Removing confusing or redundant provisions, reducing subjectivity in regulatory language, and clarifying and better defining key terms. 18:29:22 The CAO establishes development regulations that protect the functions and values of critical areas in unincorporated Jefferson County. 18:29:31 While safeguarding public health, 18:29:34 safety and general welfare. 18:29:36 Adoption of the updated CAO is a nodâ¦ is a non-project action intended to refine existing policies and standards 18:29:46 Consistent with the growth management act . 18:29:50 Future SEPA, which is theâ¦ 18:29:53 uh, state Environmental Policy Act. 18:29:57 Review may be required for specific project actions undertaken pursuant to these revisions. 18:30:04 This update does not propose or authorize any specific projects or activities, and is not limited to a particular site. 18:30:12 Prior to this evening's public hearing, eight publicly noticed workshops were conducted as part of the regularly scheduled 18:30:20 Planning Commission meetings. 18:30:23 On April 2nd of 2025 was BC Workshop No. 1. 18:30:29 Draft technical memo from Shannon and Wilson dated 2-18-25. 18:30:35 With WDFW comments on keeping buffers same, 18:30:40 The same assumes, the firstâ¦ same for stream buffers that are well-vegetated, 18:30:46 or enhanced. 18:30:48 In April, uh, excuse me, on April 16th of 2025, the second workshop 18:30:56 covered draft changes to Fish and Wildlife Habitat Conservation Area, FWHCA, 18:31:04 And geo hazard section of CAO. 18:31:08 May 7th of 2025 was the third workshop, Critical Aquifer Recharge Area, 18:31:14 acronym CARA, frequently flooded areas, and wetland, uh, wetlands and FWHCA and wetland reductions of CAO. 18:31:27 May 21st of 2025 was the fourth workshop. 18:31:32 W, or excuse me, FWHCA technical memo from 5-13-25, Wetlands and Ag. 18:31:41 June 18th of 2025, PC Workshop No. 5 reviewed clean versions of the FWHCA and Wet Moon sections. 18:31:52 And, um, August 7th of 2025 was workshop number 6, reviewed latest changes of geoâ¦ 18:32:01 Geologically hazardous areas, wetlands, and FWHCA sections. 18:32:07 in, uh, November the 19th, on November the 19th, was the seventh workshop we reviewed 18:32:15 proposed CAO with definitions, and finally, December 3rd, 2025 was the 8th 18:32:24 workshop overview of changes made to geo hazard areas and proposed budget buffers. 18:32:31 The buffer averaging and reduction process in the FWHCA and wetlands, i.e., 18:32:38 Variance and reasonable use exceptions. 18:32:40 This is a legislative proceeding. In making our findings and recommendations to the Jefferson County Board of Commissioners, the Planning Commission follows strict procedural requirements. 18:32:52 The Planning Commission will consider all timely testimony and evidence. 18:32:58 for or against a proposal. 18:33:01 First, we'll begin with a brief presentation. We've done that, of proposed amendments from county staff. This will be followed by public testimony. 18:33:11 Both written and foral testimony will be accepted tonight. 18:33:16 The comment period will close at the close of this hearing. 18:33:20 Deliberations on the amendments may occur after the hearing closes at the direction of the chair, and we've already discussed we're not going to do that. We're going to, umâ¦ 18:33:28 Uh, due deliberations on January 7 of 2026. 18:33:34 So, we've got a presentation by staff. 18:33:37 Um, and now we're going to open public testimony. 18:33:42 Are you prepared, Tonya, to do the timer? I can do that, yeah. Okay, that would be great. 18:33:48 And if you can flag me if someone starts to get 18:33:54 Shelows and goes over, and then I will, um, askâ¦ 18:33:58 If youâ¦ if you have gone over, I'll ask you to complete your sentence and complete your comments. 18:34:05 Um, if you have anything written to submit along with 18:34:11 spoken comments, you can, umâ¦ let's see, what are we going to do with those? 18:34:16 Um, we can hand them down to Tanya, and she'll collect them. 18:34:21 Um, anyâ¦ any written testimony that is submitted by email after theâ¦ 18:34:28 Closing of tonight's meeting will not be considered in theâ¦ in the hearing. 18:34:34 Is that, you know, reflosing at the end of this meeting? 18:34:37 The, uhâ¦ 18:34:39 It would be my preference that if we can get through the oral testimony, that we hold the writtenâ¦ 18:34:46 that we allow people to submit red comments up until January 7th. Okay, if you canâ¦ if you can do that, that's great. Okay, soâ¦ I'm gonna change what I just said. I've written, uh, testimonâ¦ written hearing testimony will be allowed until 18:35:01 January 7th, staff says they can manage that. 18:35:05 Um, yes. 18:35:09 things are submitted until January 7th. 18:35:11 And our meeting is on January 7th. How are we as commissioners going to get that information? Fair point. â¦and review that information and make separation for that meeting? So my ask or request is thatâ¦ 18:35:23 that timeline be moved up to allow us time toâ¦ Yeah, I'm wondering if maybe, uh, what's the Friday? Is that the 3rd? 2nd. The 2nd? 18:35:34 Is thatâ¦ is that more reasonable? 18:35:36 Um, I know that you guys like toâ¦ you prefer to get all of the packet and everything Thursdays, typically, so that would be the first, if you wanted to haveâ¦ 18:35:45 Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I'm thinking on the 1st, we're not going to get the packet together, but hey, umâ¦ The secondâ¦ Friday the 2nd. The 31st, so you can get it in by the second day, you can get it on the weekend, something like that. Okay, sure. Good thing we're talking this through. Okay, soâ¦ 18:36:00 Shall we say the 30â¦ if you have it by the 1stâ¦ 18:36:06 you're not going to be looking at it on the first. You're going to be looking at it on the second. 18:36:11 Do you want it before then? Birth. 18:36:13 That means a couple days in those last-minute ones, if it's a great idea and want to get it in, you're able to get it in. 18:36:19 I want it to be a fairâ¦ Right. 18:36:23 I would say that whenever we get the comments, we might not haveâ¦ 18:36:29 We might not have a response for them in the packet, but we can deal with them at the end. 18:36:38 We'll have copies of movement. So, could we say that the hearingâ¦ we will take comments until the 31st, so the end of this year. Perfect. 18:36:46 And then any comments that come in after that mayâ¦ will not be included in the record. We'llâ¦ we will consider them a feedback. 18:36:54 Okay, so, uh, December 31st, 2025 is the end of theâ¦ 18:37:01 Um, the hearing record for written comments. Tonight will be the end of the record forâ¦ 18:37:09 All right, let's see, umâ¦ 18:37:11 If you wish to speak tonight, please indicate to the chair, that's me, 18:37:16 By raising your hand, if, um, if joining the meeting remotely, or you will be called upon according to a sign-in sheet. Did we have a sign-in sheet? 18:37:24 Yes. Okay, great, those assigned sheet. So I'm going to need that sign-in sheet. 18:37:29 So, sorry. The sign-in sheet will go off the sign-in sheet first, and then if you did not sign up, I won't call the people in the room afterwards. We may need to cast this around. We've only got 4, and I feel like there's moreâ¦ You want to hand out a different paper, and I'll start with this one. That sounds good. Yeah, we can do that. 18:37:46 Okay. 18:37:49 Same with you, my dear. Do you want toâ¦ well, it's just one. Okay, so we add them all. 18:37:55 Umâ¦ 18:37:56 All right, the testimony is being recorded. Therefore, when you speak, begin by clearly stating your name and address, 18:38:05 Each person will be allowed to speak for up to 3 minutes. You cannot yield your remaining time to another speaker. Again, each speaker is limited to 3 minutes. The most useful comments are specific to the proposal and focus on issues. 18:38:21 Common purposes expected from all participants. I have no doubt that you will, um, uh, offer us common currency. 18:38:28 Um, personal attacks and derogatory lenses may not be tolerated. 18:38:34 No clapping, booing, pissing, or any other audible indication of agreement. 18:38:40 or opposition is allowed. The floor is now open to the public. 18:38:44 The Planning Commission will hear a public test authority for the testimony in some more support for opposition to the proposed amendments to the principal area zone ordinance. The Planning Commission will receive testimony this evening, but will not respond at this time. So I'll put forward to you or making comments. We're not having 18:38:59 we're not going to be able to respond to your comments. 18:39:02 Okay, again, this is the longest strip I've ever read. 18:39:09 I think we are ready to go. 18:39:13 Well, thanks for the question that sounds fun. 18:39:15 Yes. I just wonder if we submit an infection has to know if we can get out of the notes for each smell? 18:39:21 Sometimes we lost jobs. 18:39:23 That's an excellent point. So the question is, um, if we submitted, um, uh, 18:39:29 Our fair and testimony previous to this meeting in writing by email, how do we know it wasâ¦ I have a list on my computer, if you could tell me your name, I can let you know if we've received it. Do that at the end of the meeting. Awesome, thank you. 18:39:44 Right. Okay, how's that first on the list? It's Keeley Box. 18:39:48 Oh, excuse me, umâ¦ so, uh, there's this place in here that says, uh, 1217 sign-in. Is this different than people that want to sign up to make comments? This is just left here, so I want to check in about that. 18:40:01 I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question. So, he's saying there's a list with 1217 sign-up? He's asking, is that the testimony sign-up? 18:40:09 And I was just leftâ¦ This was the sign-in sheet that we were talking about for you to use. Okay, so that needs to be passed around. Okay. Do you mindâ¦ can you just read the names briefly? Yeah, we've got Julie Boggs, Chuck Boggs, Noahâ¦ 18:40:23 Ish. Okay, and Noah and Steve Mader. Okay, then I got Chris and Bob. 18:40:29 So is there anyone else who would like toâ¦ I just have the ground. That'd be great. Thank you. And then my other question is, 18:40:35 Before we go through this process. So, just so we'reâ¦ for clarity, so all theâ¦ all the public comment and testimony is due on the 30th. 31st. 18:40:45 And then, at that point, Greg and company are going toâ¦ 18:40:50 Uh, comment on all of that, and so we can expect on the 7th, 18:40:54 Uh, or, I'm sorry, by the second, all of theâ¦ everything that's submitted along withâ¦ 18:41:01 I think that is not what you're saying. Can youâ¦ can you clarify? So, we will be forwarded theâ¦ any testimony that is handed in until the end of the year. Okay. I don't know the year in a comment on it byâ¦ 18:41:16 The second, when you give us our packet, is thatâ¦? 18:41:19 Right? To me, theâ¦ we've gotten probably 6 or 7 comments just in the last couple days. Okay. So we're going to respond to those comments, and we'll have that to you with your regular packet. Okay. If there's stuff that comes in at the last minute, we'll just get a forward view those comments. 18:41:37 So we'll address those at the hearing. Okay, not at the hearing, at the liberation. At the liberation. On the 7th. Right, so we'll give you that. This will be digested, it'll just be, you knowâ¦ 18:41:49 Alright, thank you for putting your name, Matt. You very much. Okay, sorry, Shori. Julie, I thought you were going to press a C? Yeah. 18:41:56 You got 3 minutes. I'm sorry. Okay, um, Iâ¦ 18:42:01 basically have asked the questions, but uhâ¦ 18:42:05 Uh, one thing, I neverâ¦ you guys saw a red line document that showed the changes and all. 18:42:13 And, uh, I don't think the public has seen it, or at least I never did. 18:42:16 And then my concern was about the mandatory, uh, buffer winds. Are those mandatory, or areâ¦ is that whatâ¦ 18:42:27 the live position. 18:42:30 So, all of theâ¦ I'm gonna only answer this question, but I want to reiterate that we're not answering questions, but I want to clarify for the public that all of these documents are on the website. 18:42:42 And have been available for 10 minutes. So, um, I don't know if they'reâ¦ okay. 18:42:50 Uh, and then the True Meat, uh, concern about why the tree height is important. 18:42:55 And, uh, let's seeâ¦ anything else that would do that, I guess, soâ¦ 18:43:03 Because I didn't know about. 18:43:05 how this works? 18:43:06 And are thereâ¦ is there room for new farms as such? 18:43:12 Or is it toâ¦ 18:43:16 Our new farms, uh, set up just like the old. Umâ¦ 18:43:21 there are farms likeâ¦ 18:43:23 These gloves we've had for years. 18:43:27 Or do you have to go through a whole process of permitting before you can start an informal? 18:43:35 Thank you, Jill. Thank you, Julie. We're not answering questions, so you're welcome toâ¦ I mean, based on the questions, I'm answering. 18:43:41 Okay. You're welcome to stay after and ask to talk to Seth, okay, but how are we doing on time? I just want to make the comment about the fact that most of the public can't evenâ¦ 18:43:53 follow most of this. Yeah. 18:43:54 And, uh, I'm trying toâ¦ I'm trying to help farmers to get through stuff like this, but Iâ¦ 18:44:03 That's my time. Anybody else? Thanks so much. Thanks, Julie. Okay, chat. 18:44:09 truck blocks 1311 West Valley Road here in general, Capone. 18:44:13 Our non-sharing jury. 18:44:17 I've lived here a whole lot of life. 18:44:19 And in theâ¦ where I can remember the 50s and 60s, there were lots of samples. 18:44:26 There was John Cohen, 18:44:28 Maybe so many folks were here that 18:44:30 But it's not uncommon to see 50- and 60-pound salmon on display. 18:44:37 At that same time, and before that, 18:44:40 Valerieâ¦ the two valories were full of dirty cattle. 18:44:45 It wandered into the street. 18:44:47 There's no fence. 18:44:49 Great. They can earn graphics is involved with it. 18:44:53 They probably trampled down Beaverdale. 18:44:58 So, why are these buffers so necessary now? 18:45:02 Those streams were all fenced off. 18:45:05 There was lots of share with them. 18:45:09 has created whatnot. Okay, thank you. Maybe not the best bear in science. 18:45:17 But it's through observation. 18:45:18 Thank you very much. Next, Noah. 18:45:22 And I'm sorry, I don't know how to pronounce your last name. You can say it if you'd like. Bill Frisch. Thank you. I was actually prepared to make a comment, but I might as well. 18:45:32 So there's a few things that concern me in general, umâ¦ 18:45:35 So, you know, so GMA being adopted in the 90s, that basically gives the state 18:45:41 kind of a, umâ¦ 18:45:44 dictating to the counties, I guess, so that they had to move into the counties. 18:45:49 figure out how best to satisfy those requirements. 18:45:55 It just, to me, it seems a little, likeâ¦ 18:45:57 kind of unchecked power. Umâ¦ 18:46:00 I don't know that any of it's enriched, I meanâ¦ 18:46:06 in the best interest forâ¦ 18:46:07 For us, for me, for my neighbors, 18:46:11 Um, that kind of extends to adopting the best of science. I mean, 18:46:17 I think we couldâ¦ probably a lot of us would agree that 18:46:22 Science is very gender-driven. 18:46:24 And ifâ¦ 18:46:27 somebody is saying this is the best science, thenâ¦ 18:46:31 you know, I guessâ¦ 18:46:33 I want to know what their agenda is. 18:46:36 Because somebody's saying, oh, this is the best thing for you, why should I trust that? 18:46:41 we're sort of just feed them there, soâ¦ 18:46:43 I've got a lot of questions that, you know, 18:46:45 I want to know where, like, where this is all coming from. 18:46:51 who says, like, who's really saying, like, oh, this is the best for you? Because, umâ¦ 18:46:55 I don't believe that it is. 18:46:58 And it's very expensive to have veterans on the property. 18:47:01 Or it can be. Um, for me, it certainly has been, soâ¦ 18:47:06 I'll just leave it at that. 18:47:08 Thank you, uh, did you say your address? 18:47:11 for universal growth. Thank you. 18:47:13 All right, uh, next. Steve Mader. 18:47:19 That's cool. 18:47:23 helpful. 18:47:25 Great mention. Address. 18:47:28 612 Lawrence, Connected. Thank you. 18:47:32 Greg mentioned that kind of laund that is shitty. 18:47:35 play the position, and if my comments or not. 18:47:39 My comments are not from the Planning Commission, and they are. 18:47:42 personal comments. 18:47:45 Um, I'd just like to say, um, I think the staff has done a great job atâ¦ 18:47:51 taking theâ¦ all the information that's out there. It's gonna come up with a, umâ¦ 18:47:59 Um, set of recommendationâ¦ a set of standards. 18:48:03 That can be applied consistently on those grounds, and I know that it's got 18:48:09 Maybe an effort to do. 18:48:11 Um, when we talked about buffers, it's, um, it acknowledges that there are important 18:48:19 functions and values and areas around 18:48:23 are critical areas. 18:48:25 Um, that, umâ¦ 18:48:30 That's where you've got these regulations, because they have value. 18:48:34 Um, and that we're concerned with the species, andâ¦ 18:48:38 having the habitats such aâ¦ You're at time, so just finish up your sentence. 18:48:45 Whether you think about buffers, it's important, and understand 18:48:48 what we can actually do in buckets, and I know that the county is 18:48:53 made some provisions for packaging, reduction. 18:48:56 but also from what activities are allowed in the buffers. 18:49:00 And that's very important, because 18:49:04 certain activities are compatible. 18:49:07 with the purpose and name of theâ¦ 18:49:09 Thank you so much. Absolutely. 18:49:13 Okay, um, do we have anybody online? 18:49:18 Is there anyone online who would like to make a public hearing comment on the critical areas ordinance? 18:49:32 Anyone online like to make a public comment on the critical areas or events? Hearing? 18:49:41 Okay, I'm not seeing anybody. 18:49:45 All right. Back to the room. Um, I've gotâ¦ 18:49:49 Chris? I'm sorry, I can't read your last name, and Enoli? 18:49:56 Chris? 18:49:59 From TLA? Oh, yes, they may have stepped out. 18:50:03 Oh, okay. 18:50:05 Um, is Bob Gizzert? That was his Gilbert. Gilbert? 18:50:11 Gilbert? Okay. That might have been the other gentleman. Oh, yes. Uh, Marilyn Frederickstone? No, Marty. Marty. Marty, Marty, sorry, Marty, Frederick. Marty's okay, yeah, sorry. Marty. Martin Fredrickson, 1833, West Valley votes. 18:50:27 Um, my wife and I own One Star Ranch, and umâ¦ 18:50:33 We're specifically concerned about the inclusion of the existing and ongoing language in the agricultural exemption. I know Greg said that 18:50:42 that it, um, is there already, but in that particular archive code, it's not, andâ¦ 18:50:47 You know, our concerns aboutâ¦ 18:50:49 And maybe these definitions exist in the code, but defining what existing means, I know there's been talk about whether 18:50:58 changing crops is fine, but is thatâ¦ 18:51:01 say, a new farm, a new landowner buys a farm, is that an existing use, or is that a new use? 18:51:08 Um, is that an ongoing use, or is that a new use? 18:51:13 And I can think of a lot of reasons why a 5-year 18:51:18 turn them onâ¦ on abandonment might occur in the agricultural area. 18:51:22 What if a landowner dies, and it takes his family 5 years to figure out 18:51:28 what they're gonna do with that farm. I mean, it sits valid for those 5 years. Um, maybe it's just in the best interest of the land to rest for 5 years. 18:51:37 Um, I don't think that should necessitate that that farm is no longerâ¦ 18:51:43 a viable farm, and I thinkâ¦ 18:51:45 defining an arbitrary 18:51:47 time period on that is a big mistake in a county where 18:51:51 We have tremendous support for local agriculture. We haveâ¦ 18:51:54 one of the most vibrant farmers markets of the state. 18:51:57 We have 3 independent grocery stores that carry a huge amount of local food. 18:52:04 Um, you know, we've co-opted in the last few years has raised $160,000 fromâ¦ 18:52:11 Donations from customers to support local farms and small projects on their farms. 18:52:18 enhance their sustainability and productive value. So, I think there's a huge demonstrated support in Jefferson County for local agriculture, and I think you need to be very careful 18:52:30 putting limits on that withoutâ¦ 18:52:33 understanding whatâ¦ 18:52:34 all those ramifications, 50 and wild. 18:52:37 Thank you. 18:52:40 Uh, Charlotte Fredrickson. 18:52:43 I'm Charlotte, 183 when it's family road. I'll second everything my husband just said. 18:52:47 Uh, theâ¦ it really is an addition. The way I read it, to add existing and billing to the language, if it's sent tonight, it's not, but it is. I looked at the total funnel floor. 18:52:58 And to you, that reads and gives it or lose it. 18:53:01 And that's pretty dangerous, uh, but they want to be producing food for our selling period. 18:53:07 There's so many reasons. There's a brand new pharmacy industry, I mean, we're so glad you're here. 18:53:13 Oh, man, I'm just starting forever, but it's our farm now new? 18:53:16 Or is itâ¦ exist any point? 18:53:19 It doesn't say, and so there's always a chance thatâ¦ well, a strong chance, that it could be taken out of negative culture. 18:53:26 There's land sitting all over this county, and our farmers have retired, our families have moved on, it's not being used. 18:53:32 But it was used. Can we farm it again? And we know there are hundreds 18:53:39 Well, more than that, just on our own, we have hundreds of families that tell us all the time they want food because they buy it from us. 18:53:46 Andâ¦ we want to give the producer for that, because we know it's better for the environmental what we're doing, than what their option is to show food. 18:53:54 So, I think it's notâ¦ 18:53:58 a detriment to our relative puncture. 18:54:01 And Iâ¦ and so we've gotten our amazing testimony, we're not out to destroy. We are here to create. 18:54:08 We know how important it is to have our wildlife and learn about this, andâ¦ 18:54:13 Anne instead of 4. 18:54:18 You have a few more minutes. You have a little less than that. Yeah, that was just our point. We think it can be AND, it should be AND, not instead. 18:54:27 We can create, we can protect. 18:54:32 love our land. We need our land to be productive, we need it to be healthy, good soil. 18:54:37 Uh, we're not out to destroy. We just want to create religious food and protect our environment at the same time. 18:54:44 Thank you. All right, uh, Marion Mills. Martin Mills. I actually think I'm just my chance to just clarify some questions, mostly. 18:54:58 And so, I agree withâ¦ I army general. I live on Harris County. 18:55:03 And, uh, I agree withâ¦ 18:55:06 the slippery slope ofâ¦ 18:55:08 land use, but I think it's complicated as to what the factsâ¦ 18:55:12 you know, it'sâ¦ what it doesn't become farmland is complicated, but uhâ¦ 18:55:19 That's it. I also think it would help your presentation to have let us all know what's being saidâ¦ 18:55:27 to understand from the stage at the bed level, that you had to actually fulfill, because I think a lot of what happens here 18:55:34 reading between the lines is, you're just trying to actually 18:55:38 fulfill your obligation toâ¦ 18:55:41 higher powers that are, say, a distance, whether Fish and Wildlife. 18:55:45 And that, at some point, I feel like we're probablyâ¦ 18:55:49 Yes, I agree with you. No, we need toâ¦ 18:55:51 put a little resistance as to what happens in our community, but I think a lot of this isâ¦ they're really just trying to make the best out of the roles that we have generic control over, soâ¦ 18:56:01 Excellent comment. Thanks for all around the direction. 18:56:04 Uh, Jody Holt. 18:56:08 John, I don't know about this? 18:56:10 No problem. Okay. 18:56:13 Uh, David Baleff? Bailiff? Yes. Hi, uh, David Baliff, uh, 788 Beach Creek at the Economic Development Council. 18:56:21 Thanks to the staff for the presentation, and the planning commissioners for all the time. 18:56:25 Just a couple of comments, um, strong support forâ¦ 18:56:28 envision more objective, uh, criteria for buffer areas and things like that. Um, so thank you for that. I would also echo echo some of the other comments we've heard. 18:56:37 I would urge caution on mandating larger buffer areas. 18:56:41 Uh, that are not necessarily required by law or regulation. 18:56:45 I would be concerned about the effects of these new regulations on our neighborhoods, especially in more rural areas. 18:56:51 Um, also would like to echo the concern on making further distinctions on existing versus new agriculture. 18:56:57 And challenges in determining who qualifies to be grandfathered in for equit. 18:57:02 Thank you. Thank you. 18:57:07 Uh, Letitia Valfuna. 18:57:10 So I'm going to just call into those different thoughts in here. 18:57:12 Oh, okay. Thank you, online, we heard you. 18:57:17 So, speak up, everybody. Leticia, hi. Hi, my name is Leticia Ciena. We are often at 1091 West Valley Road. 18:57:24 Um, I'm here to echo, um, the statements by Martin Hatteras, and, um, we don't think they've repeated. Thank you. 18:57:30 Um, my husband and I purchased the Strongh, we put a lot of time andâ¦ 18:57:35 Um, research to determine if this was the right move for us. It really is. 18:57:40 This has been a piece of land that has hundreds of years of history. 18:57:44 Um, and we are really looking forward to becoming a family garden. That's really important to us, and soâ¦ 18:57:51 the language that feelsâ¦ 18:57:53 Threatening of what we're gonna beâ¦ what we are able to do, andâ¦ 18:57:59 It feels like more restrictions are being put in place for people who actually are really trying to do the very best to buy the land. 18:58:09 Thank you, Leticia. 18:58:10 All right, so I've gone through the list. 18:58:13 Um, I'm happy to hear from anybody who has not yet spoken, either online or in the room. I'm going to go to online right now and see if there's anyone else 18:58:23 who would like to speak? 18:58:26 Um, on the record at theâ¦ 18:58:29 at this hearing. 18:58:32 And if you don't know how to put up your hands, just unmute yourself. Are they able to unmute? Unmute yourself and speak up. 18:58:41 Because this is your opportunity. 18:58:49 Okay, one lastâ¦ 18:58:53 call for onlineâ¦ 18:58:55 I don't see anyone. 18:58:57 And so I'm gonna go back to the roomsâ¦ Oh, nope. 18:59:04 Okay, I thinkâ¦ Iâ¦ 18:59:03 You know what I mean? 18:59:08 I hear someone talking, um, can you state your name and address? 18:59:14 Uh, my name is Ann Cloud, a 1991 St. George Road. 18:59:18 Okay? 18:59:19 And for right now, I'm just wonderingâ¦ I'll submit. 18:59:25 Sam? Huh? 18:59:24 Because I'm a little late to the game, and I have something I want to say. 18:59:27 Ms. Anna? 18:59:28 But I want to be able toâ¦ 18:59:30 Ma'am, I need to stop you. I'm having a veryâ¦ Anne, I need to stop you. I'm having a very difficult time hearing you. 18:59:37 And we want to hear everything that you're saying. Can you start over with your comment and speak slowly, and if youâ¦ if you can move to a place that has better cell signal, that would be helpful. 18:59:51 I can't do that. I just want to know how to submit a written comment. 18:59:55 Ah, great question! 18:59:57 That we will answer in just a few minutes. So, hold tight. 19:00:02 Okay, thank you. 19:00:03 You're so welcome. Thank you for speaking up. Is there anyone else online who would like to make a comment? You can unmute yourself and speak up. 19:00:15 Or you can put up your hand, and I'm not seeing anybody. Okay, I'm going to turn back to the room. 19:00:20 Is there anyone else in the room who would like to speak on the record for this hearing? 19:00:34 But I just want toâ¦ 19:00:40 Make sure I'm listening. Anybody else? I think everybody's spoken who's here. 19:00:45 And then the people are gone. Okay. 19:00:48 Um, so the question isâ¦ So, is there an opportunity that a Planning Commissioner can ask DCB a couple of, kind of, specific clashing money signs? Maybe personal clarity for some of the people that are here? 19:01:01 toâ¦ on how maybe some of the wording in this wasâ¦ at least the intent of the wording, because it's a little ambiguous even for me, when Iâ¦ when I read it. 19:01:11 But I think one of the things that seems to be one of the big contentions that everybody has is that 19:01:17 piece of land sits, and whether you want to call it fallow, or land rests, or for whatever reason, it's not farmed. 19:01:25 It's still zoned agriculture, and so that's not going to change its ability to get farmed in the future. 19:01:33 currently, as the way our code reads it, is that correct? I mean, somebody couldâ¦ 19:01:38 The piece of farmland out in the valley could sit for 10 years, and somebody else can come in and start farming, and as long as it hasn't been changed to something else. 19:01:46 In between. Do we have aâ¦ to be more specific, do we have a definition in the current or, um, proposed code for whatâ¦ Well, let him answer the first question. Well, that is the question. No, you know, the land use has been made. The land use is already designated as farming. 19:02:05 It doesn't fall out of forming because ofâ¦ 19:02:09 of time that maybe a crop hasn't been put in there, or it hasn't been had cattle learned on there that were hidden along that much, is that? 19:02:16 The, uhâ¦ 19:02:18 So I've been planning forever, soâ¦ 19:02:22 Doesn't matter what your zoning is. 19:02:24 We have a use table. Agriculture's allowed in almost every zone of the county. 19:02:30 So, anybody can open up a new farm. 19:02:33 What we're talking about here is mostly 19:02:36 Can you open up a new farm inâ¦ 19:02:39 a wetland, a wetland buffer, or a stream. 19:02:42 If you want toâ¦ if you want to clear some forest land and make it a farmâ¦ 19:02:47 You can do that. It's an easy process. We're talking aboutâ¦ 19:02:54 Can youâ¦ can you basically go into a wetland, 19:02:58 That's, uh, by Perry Vegetation. I have a definition from Clallowing County for existing ongoing ag. 19:03:05 So I'm going to read it to you real quick. But we have one in our code, because that isn't new language. It's been in there before. 19:03:12 I'm sorry, I just want to clarify his question a little bit, because I'm hearing his question, andâ¦ 19:03:17 To me, the question is, there's a farm, 19:03:20 into wherever that has been farmed. It goes out of use for 10 years, and then somebody who comesâ¦ 19:03:27 What new rules apply to that person that didn't apply to the person before? My understanding is that they would be subject to 19:03:35 The buffer requirement is as outlined in theâ¦ So this is why I was trying to get at the definition, because the definition would answer part of this question. Right. And that's why I'm pushing on that. And then we can start there, and if that doesn't answer the question, thenâ¦ 19:03:50 the usage run with the property out of the person, so it doesn't matter if you have a business and you sell it to somebody else, 19:03:57 We can't change the rules on you. 19:04:01 Save me with critical areas and farms. 19:04:03 But just a change in ownership, 19:04:06 The change of the crop type, 19:04:07 that's notâ¦ that's not important for optimal value. 19:04:11 Emily's going to read the definition for us right now. Here's the, um, the current definition of agriculture existing and ongoing. 19:04:20 Agriculture existing and ongoing is defined as follows, except for, um, Chapter 18.22, 19:04:27 Which governâ¦ which is governed? Both. 19:04:29 That means this whole description doesn't apply to 1825, which is the section we're editing. 19:04:36 So, agricultural activities is now the definition we use. 19:04:40 Agricultural activities has the same meaning as RCW 90.58.655. Janira, can you slow down and read that RCW again? RCW? 90? 19:04:53 0.58, .065â¦ 19:04:58 Sherry, somebody was chatting over here, can you start again? RCW90? Yes, please do. 19:05:04 Not the ERC, but please put the county code. 19:05:08 90.58â¦ 19:05:10 0.0652A. Thank you. That's the state. 19:05:17 revised Code of Washington. Umâ¦ 19:05:19 Okay, agricultural activities has the same meaning as in RCW, we've already said that, as it may be modified in the future, and currently pays 19:05:28 Agricultural uses and practices, including but not limited to, producing, breeding, or increasing agricultural products, rotating and changing agricultural props, allowing land used for agricultural activities to live fallow, in which it is plowed and tilled, 19:05:45 Left unseated, allowing land used for agricultural activities to lie dormant as a result of adverse agricultural market conditions. 19:05:53 Allowing land use for agricultural activities to lie dormant, because the land is enrolled in a local, state, 19:06:00 For federal conservation program, 19:06:02 Or the land is subject to a conservation easement, conducting agricultural operations, maintaining, repairing, and replacing agriculture. 19:06:11 add agricultation. 19:06:13 Maintaining, repairing, and replacing agricultural facilities. 19:06:17 Provided that the replacement facility is no closer to the shoreline than the original facilityâ¦ 19:06:22 And maintaining agricultural lands under production and cultivation. 19:06:26 Totally 18. Scroll down. 19:06:34 The, uh, the thing I think you have to remember isâ¦ 19:06:38 If you go into the critical area, Code 1822260, he talks about non-conforming uses. 19:06:45 And it says a non-conforming use scheme can continue. 19:06:49 So if you're in aâ¦ 19:06:51 If you're in a wetland, or if you're in a bump, orâ¦ 19:06:56 You're a non-performing use, you can continue. You canâ¦ you're ignite. 19:07:00 You can repair, you can modify, you can do all your activities. 19:07:04 And soâ¦ 19:07:07 existing logo YAG. 19:07:11 you either had to be enrolled in the zoning, 19:07:16 Or you had to be enrolled in theâ¦ 19:07:18 the ag program, 19:07:21 And the land has been used for agriculture. 19:07:23 Well, since, like, 1992, that's when the growth management act passed. 19:07:30 has that ceased in agriculture for more than 5 years in any oneâ¦ at one time. 19:07:36 This is changing the type of agricultural activities being conducted. 19:07:41 is not considered new or expansion? 19:07:43 of existing agricultural activities, agriculturalâ¦ 19:07:47 That meets the definition of existing ongoing act on farmed wetlands, farmed pastures, 19:07:54 or a prior converted weapons is allowed to continue 19:07:58 And so that's, you knowâ¦ 19:08:00 this is what I wrote, they followed, to kind of make it clear. 19:08:04 Uh, because I did the existing ongoing ad section there that 19:08:10 was an issue for state law about 19:08:13 how do you deal with 19:08:16 critical areas and existing and ongoing ag, and we basically passed an ordinance that got upheld by GMA. 19:08:23 with this definition. So, the wording that that says, though, could beâ¦ almost sounds like it could be construed as if it sits for more than 5 years, it falls out of the ability. 19:08:33 It sounds that way. Now, I'mâ¦ and it may not be the intent at it, butâ¦ 19:08:39 It's almost sounds like it's meant to be easy. 19:08:44 register that way. To me, like, in 5 years, what's gonna happen? 19:08:50 your doctor to have a mature riparian area. You're not going to have native vegetation. 19:08:55 you know, typically, 19:08:58 property doesn'tâ¦ doesn'tâ¦ you know, it's gonna get some alders, it's gonna get someâ¦ some things like that, but it's not going to be considered 19:09:05 Like, if I had old goat cedar on there, you're not going to let that happen, butâ¦ 19:09:10 You know, if a farmer just knocks down theâ¦ 19:09:13 The retail graphs are kind ofâ¦ 19:09:15 you know, a lot of people will just, uhâ¦ 19:09:18 pay the big canary grass to reduce the fuel burden, because it's not really a crop that you want. 19:09:26 That's enough just to keep it going. So you kind of just want to make sure that you show that you have the intent, that youâ¦ 19:09:33 want to keep it at ag, and you're not gonnaâ¦ 19:09:37 you're gonna do something appropriate. Well, I think that the question was kind ofâ¦ 19:09:43 say that, uh, it's been in farms, but then for some reason, it's had to sit foul forâ¦ 19:09:52 5 years or so. 19:09:54 Uh, for some legal way, or, or just thatâ¦ 19:09:59 Well, couldn't really manage it at that point. 19:10:01 But it's farmland still. 19:10:03 And to lose that land still, a young farmer could come in there, or someone, to really 19:10:11 bring it back to its farm use. 19:10:15 Uh, it should be. 19:10:17 you know, welcome, because 19:10:20 Uh, ifâ¦ if you really look at theâ¦ 19:10:24 Um, Jefferson County as a whole. 19:10:29 We have lost a lot of farmland. 19:10:34 just to people saving this and that, and pretty soon, there's a lot of that lab that isn't even paying at taxes now. 19:10:43 And this county needs tax revenue. 19:10:47 So, that's the kind of thing that unhappened. 19:10:51 Uh, you know, if you have just a time limit on it. All right, we have further comments, and I am going toâ¦ I'm going to close the official hearing. 19:11:00 And then we're going to talk about what happens next, and I deeply encourage everyone who has beenâ¦ participated tonight 19:11:10 to follow through with some written comment that you submit by email. We heard you loud and clear. I think staff's heard you loud and clear. It sounds like some clarity needs to be reached in this document so that 19:11:22 Um, if it is, um, uh, clear to everybody what we're talking about. 19:11:27 And I really appreciate all the comments. So, I have to say special words from my spread to close the, um, 19:11:33 public hearing, but the meeting will continue, so don't go weigh in. Public hearing is now closed. Public comments received after December 31st. 19:11:45 Uh, 2025 at midnight. 19:11:48 Via email will be included, uh, it will not be included in the record, and will be forwarded to the Board of County Commissioners. In other words, if you write us on the 1st of January next year, 19:11:58 Um, the Board of County Commissioners will get your comments, but they will not be included in the deliberations of the Planning Commission. 19:12:06 Um, and, uh, Planning Commission deliberations will begin or continueâ¦ begin. 19:12:13 Um, on, uh, 5.30 p.m. on Wednesday, January 7th, 2026, at this location, uh, WSU Extension Classroom. 19:12:22 And virtually via Zoom. The Planning Commission will make findings and recommendations which will be forwarded to the Board of County Commissioners, 19:12:30 For final legislative action. I want to tell you what happens next. 19:12:34 Um, we're gonna give you the email address to write to, uh, to the Planning Commission to be, uh, or whoever we're going to write to to include in the record, but also, I want you to know that this isn't the last stage. 19:12:47 So, what will happen is that on January 7th, and maybe continue beyond that, depending on how the meeting goes, we're goingâ¦ we, the Planning Commission, are going to make recommendations to the Board of County Commissioners. We'll write them a letter, their staff will write a letter for us, that will include our recommendations, and then the Board of County Commissioners will decide whether they will accept our recommendations without furtherâ¦ without any 19:13:12 further public, um, hearing. 19:13:15 Or, whether they're going to have their own hair. 19:13:19 My guess is Bell having your own hearing, but I know. I work on the Board of County Commission, so I can't make that decision. 19:13:26 But often, when there's a lot of public interest, the Board of County Commissioners will decide to hold their own hearing. 19:13:32 So, we'll make our determination, we'll write a letter to DOCC, andâ¦ 19:13:37 there is at least a chance, probably a good one, that they'll hold their own hearings, where you can come in and make public comment. 19:13:44 Um, on the camera record, and submit other revenue testimony. And it's important for them to remember that 19:13:50 you know, CDC will provide their comments and what they think is right and fair. We'll provide what we think ours is. 19:13:57 If the Board of County Commissioners who then decides whether they agree with them, us, or have their own idea, but that's where your input is most effective, to do, you know, kind of follow the process through. 19:14:08 Yeah, Kevin's right, and so keep in mind that that letter that we write to the Board of County Commissioners as a recommendation. They have no obligation to listen to us at all. 19:14:18 They often do, because that's part of the public process, but they have no obligation. So they're the deciders. 19:14:25 And we have the public find out, or like, to that letter that we send to the BOCC? 19:14:30 Uh, for example, like, once we decide, or what our recommendations are, does that go online, or does the publicâ¦ 19:14:38 know what that letter is? It's always included in the Board of County Commissioners packets. Okay. So you would pay attention to that. I don't know if it gets listed on ourâ¦ the Planning Commission website. I don't know. Yeah. 19:14:53 There'll be a transmittal 19:14:55 from the Planning Commission to the Board. 19:14:58 Will there sayâ¦ she read a long script, it will be something like that, saying, this is our process, 19:15:05 We've had lots of other inferredâ¦ had a lot of input. This is what we came up with. 19:15:10 And so then it's like, here's the document, 19:15:13 And we recommend, you know, 19:15:16 whatever we recommend. Yeah, whatever the vote was. 19:15:19 Okay, and so that'll beâ¦ But his question was, will it be posted somewhere where people can get access to it? 19:15:26 We'll post it on the Planning Commission West. Okay, so we'll post it on the Planning Commission website, and it'll be part of the Board of County Commissioners Act. 19:15:33 Okay, and so we are goingâ¦ that will then happen after the January 2nd. Correct. Okay. Yes, after we leave. 19:15:40 And we may make a decision on January 2nd. I don't know, I can't remember when we run this time. 19:15:46 The 7th, 7th, yes. But what I'm not sure ofâ¦ do we have room to do more deliberation, or will we have a very long night if we don't get it done? Yeah, I think we had the 21st is when we were hoping to get that done. 19:16:02 Yes? Might be too big of a question, but uhâ¦ 19:16:07 Maybe I could narrow it down a little bit. Umâ¦ 19:16:11 But I'm wondering if we could just have a basic review of what the new agriculturalâ¦ 19:16:16 guidelines would look like for an operation that has something similar to what we find 19:16:20 generically in the county, but I'm not talking, like, a concentrated hog operation or something, butâ¦ 19:16:26 Something that'sâ¦ you know, like, the level of intensity that we generally see in Larzbach canâ¦ 19:16:32 operations, umâ¦ 19:16:34 For someone that has a farm with aâ¦ 19:16:38 uh, fish-bearing stream running through it, 19:16:40 What are the options that they have? 19:16:44 Right, so, I mean, what we have to remember is we spend a lot of time on this in 2020. 19:16:51 But we have a checklist that we've perfected through this process. 19:16:56 It has the prescriptive standards, which isâ¦ 19:16:59 the big buffers that you're talking about, and then we have special buffers for new ad activities thatâ¦ 19:17:06 a farmer could propose. 19:17:08 And soâ¦ 19:17:10 We haven't changed. 19:17:12 Anything in the ad section, 19:17:16 The 5-year stuff, 19:17:19 isn't evenâ¦ we didn't propose that. 19:17:21 That was just what I've told you as my rule of thumb when I'm looking at this. It's 5 years is my thought. 19:17:28 I didn't put that in this code. 19:17:30 But that, to me, is a reasonableâ¦ 19:17:35 measure that we would probably use. 19:17:38 for doing it. And so, if we want to put a definition, we can define existing on a building agriculture. 19:17:45 I didn'tâ¦ right now, it's working good. 19:17:48 The Conservation District, 19:17:50 how Latham he was at 3 or 4 of our meetings, testifying, 19:17:55 he's fine with what we have. 19:17:57 Joe Boltrup, who's theâ¦ 19:17:59 the Conservation District, he gave us a longâ¦ 19:18:03 comments on this whole update. He had no issue with the existing and ongoing ad. 19:18:08 Because he understands it. 19:18:10 I think the new people hereâ¦ 19:18:13 So I understand what you're saying, I'm just saying 5 years seems like an arbitrarily short amount of time. 19:18:19 Right, and we didn't put that in our code. 19:18:23 But we can write itâ¦ we can write a definition of existing and ongoing. Right now, it's up to the latitude ofâ¦ 19:18:29 The code administrator. If we define it 19:18:33 like we did in column, it would be 5 years. 19:18:36 Sorry. Um, theâ¦ what Iâ¦ what I'm hearing isâ¦ 19:18:42 Um, you guys are nervous. 19:18:45 Because of the lack of definition. 19:18:48 And what I'm hearing from the administrator isâ¦ 19:18:52 we're not allies. 19:18:54 dismantling farms. 19:18:58 We'reâ¦ we have a roughâ¦ 19:19:00 sort of idea that the administrator uses in a situation like this. But I hear you, you're feeling nervous, and you'd like it to be defined so that you know what theâ¦ we know we all know what we're talking about, that it's not the arbitrary decision about the administrator. Is thatâ¦ does that reflectâ¦ 19:19:17 Yeah, and I think thatâ¦ 19:19:19 just establishing a 5-yearâ¦ 19:19:22 number seems, again, seems very short for a number of foreseeable circumstances, with the intent of trying to preserve 19:19:31 The capacity of this county to produce food. 19:19:33 Um, that's the goal, and that should be the goal of county as well. 19:19:37 And so, I think there should be some more input onâ¦ 19:19:42 on Patreon, there's going to be a term defined, thenâ¦ So, I'm weighing two things here. One is we're at the end of our meeting, and I don't want to get in a back and forth, but I do want to clarify, because I'd like people to leave 19:19:58 With the best understanding we can all share. 19:20:01 So, umâ¦ 19:20:03 I just want everyone to remember, maybe everybody understands that, and I'm just saying it to hear myself talk. 19:20:09 But what I want to make sure we all understand is that nobody's telling anybody they canâ¦ they have to stop. 19:20:16 bargaining. What we're talking about is the difference between whether you hadâ¦ 19:20:22 Smaller buffers that are historical, 19:20:26 buffers from ongoingâ¦ existing and ongoing ag, or whether you wouldâ¦ you might have to 19:20:32 Um, expand your buffer. So nobody's gonna say you have to stop farming on your land. Okay, alright. 19:20:39 Um, yes. Um, and Andrew had a standout. Oh, yes, I'm sorry. Actually, can I get him next? Because I promised him I would, and thenâ¦ Yeah, that's why I was calling attention, because you could be looking this way, most of the meeting address for the people. We will. 19:20:52 Uh, my question really has to do with, and I just want to verify, this is really for the public, because I empathize with 19:21:00 the public not often knowing about these things. Although I am very quick to remind the public 19:21:05 We all have a certain responsibility to pay attention, so let's not lose sight of that as well. 19:21:10 But we've made a decision, I believe today, to extend public comment written, 19:21:15 I believe, until the 31st? Mm-hmm. 19:21:18 Will that notice go out to the public will know about? 19:21:22 It'll be on the website. 19:21:25 needs to speak publicly. 19:21:29 I've been putting on the website, I'll just be honest, 19:21:32 I don't know that anybody will know about it. We could have ended the public hearing, the written testimony tonight. We're extending it to the end of the year. We'll put it on the website. People will let other people know. 19:21:46 We'll do the best we can, but it's notâ¦ it's not actually a noticing requirement. I understand. Uh, yes. 19:21:53 Um, certainly. Um, I wanted to know, since, uh, I guess I've got two questions and one comment. 19:21:59 Um, one question is if the leader or the PT leader is the way that people 19:22:05 that we share information. 19:22:08 Um, what needs to happen for this to go to the leader so that the public can know? And I ask that also because I personally, I feel like, you know, I'm very computer savvy and tech-savvy, and everything. 19:22:21 And in the last month, have struggled tremendously to find anything on our website. Um, soâ¦ 19:22:29 You know, and I'm imagining, generalized for the folks sitting behind me, you're probably spending your time out in your field, 19:22:35 Probably not at a desk or at a computer, trying to, like, dig for information like I am doing. So I just want to beâ¦ 19:22:42 you know, can that happen, or what is that process for us to earmark or flag the leader to share this? So that's my first question. So I'll wait for an answer. If we don't have a legal notification, that's what I was trying to say. We don't have any legal requirement. That's what you can, though. 19:23:00 I don't think we can. We don't have time. I've spent time. 19:23:06 Would you like toâ¦ Okay. 19:23:11 In order to, umâ¦ 19:23:14 put a public notice in an edition of the leader. We have to submit that request to them. 19:23:21 By noon on Monday. So it would go into next Wednesday's edition, which is when that 19:23:29 that public comment period closes. 19:23:32 It's a legal requirement. 19:23:34 However, it's not the best way to reach people. Yeah. So, if we want to reach people, it is better to get out on a website, to have aâ¦ we can have a notification on the top, so whenever anyone goes to the website or goes toâ¦ 19:23:46 The Planning Commission center, or DCB Center. 19:23:49 they're notified that, hey, you can still submit written comments regarding this video. And you guys are tapped into your people. 19:23:57 So, putting it out on your Facebook, or however you communicate with your folks is way more effective than putting it in the phone. Okay, and I hope that. 19:24:07 And the second question, then, is, umâ¦ 19:24:10 I don't think that anyone is concerned that these 19:24:14 these, like, buffers are going to take away anyone's right to farm. 19:24:19 Um, I think the question that Iâ¦ at least to me, are still not answered are, uh, it sounds like to me there is an arbitrary time limit of 5 years, 19:24:30 Um, uh, that's used, or that's the rule of thumb. And so, is, Greg, is that correct? 19:24:38 that it'sâ¦ it's whatever I feel like. I know, that's myâ¦ that's my concern. Historical precedence, I mean, these are our project, and it was 15 or 20 years ago, almost, um, but it was land that had been farmed for many, many years. I mean, it came through a process, and it was allowed to continue toâ¦ 19:24:55 be formed. So, we'reâ¦ and again, we're only talking about those critical areas with buffer zone areas, so if your farm doesn't have them, or if it does have them, you know, whatever's going on now is going to continue to be allowed to go on. 19:25:08 And it wouldn't be the whole part, it's only the area that the critical area would be impacted. Correct. But most of Chimitan Valley is a designated wetland. Yeah. So that's whyâ¦ but all the farming practices taking place now are allowed for digits. The new one to getâ¦ 19:25:26 Well, and so then that's my last question, then, is about the new agriculture. 19:25:30 is that, again, in that definition that you read, um, as far as the buffers are concerned, that's also not clear, and I'm guessing that's why several folks had a lot of comments tonight, because that isn't clear. So even though this has been around since 2020, and it's available on the website, and everybody can find it on the website, 19:25:50 Um, that the fact that that is not clear. So, my ask is, what do we need to do so that we can have clarity around it? Okay, so I want to wrap up this meeting, and I want to answer your question. Great. Okay. Those are my questions. 19:26:05 Your hearing comments will be part of the record, staff has heard you. They're going to come back on the 7th with their suggestions. 19:26:14 They've heard us, they've heard you, and we will then start deliberating. So, this will be part of the discussion, I guarantee you. 19:26:23 Um, and what we'llâ¦ what we're gonna do tonight is I want to tell people how the email address to send the public 19:26:31 comments, or excuse me, the hearing comments do, until, uh, December 31st of 19:26:36 Uh, 2025. It's before the meeting ends, because if people have to leave, I want to make sure they have that email address. 19:26:43 And then, um, and then we're gonna have to let the process go, because you have made yourâ¦ yes, ma'am. 19:26:52 I don't thinkâ¦ this is the holiday season. Yeah. People aren't going to beâ¦ 19:26:56 reading the paper, looking to the piece of paper. I think the period needs to be longer. 19:27:02 for people to get comments in, andâ¦ 19:27:05 you know, I'm a farmer for, you knowâ¦ 19:27:09 I think this is going to be hot on affirmative circuit. It's not! It'sâ¦ you know, everybody's busy, they're blinding relatives, they're traveling. 19:27:17 And, you know, I don't want to shove this under the rug. 19:27:21 Can I stop you just so I want toâ¦ I'm notâ¦ I'm notâ¦ I will continue to listen to you, but before the meetings comesâ¦ before we get to 7.30, I want to name this email address so that people who need to leave the meeting, 19:27:34 canâ¦ can have that email address. Tanya, can you tell usâ¦ can you tell us the email? I'll put it in the chat as well. Craig, do you want those to come to you? Do you want me toâ¦ 19:27:43 Anybody who has my card can send it to me, and I'll forward it to, uhâ¦ 19:27:47 audio, or you can send it toâ¦ Planning Commission? Planning, yep. 19:27:52 Planning Commission. So, everybody, it's Planning Commission. 19:27:57 Can? Do you mind just writing it out there in the chat? Yeah, but not everybody can see it, so I want to say that loud, too. She'll do both. Yep, planning commission. 19:28:06 Da, uh, ass. 19:28:12 COâ¦ sorry, I can'tâ¦ I can't talk, I can't typeâ¦ at co.jefferson.wa. 19:28:19 So, Planning Commission at co.jefferson.wa.us. You can also Google Jefferson County, Washington Planning Commission. 19:28:31 And make sure you put the Washington in there, because there's lots of different counties in the world, andâ¦ or in the United States, and make sureâ¦ and then on that Planning Commission website, you will find that Planning Commission at faux. 19:28:44 Whatever I just said. Okay, so, now that we have, um, given people the promised email address, did you want to finish your statement? No, I justâ¦ this is aâ¦ 19:28:56 Busy season of the year, people aren't it, it's just going to slide. 19:29:00 And, um, Iâ¦ they couldâ¦ 19:29:04 you know, just being a farmer, it's important to me, and beingâ¦ 19:29:08 a farmer who's had 19:29:11 land that wasâ¦ 19:29:13 you know, wetlands that wereâ¦ 19:29:15 so-called improved by the NRCS, and totally destroyed, 19:29:22 by what they planted there, I think it's really important. It's a really important. 19:29:27 Um, subject. 19:29:29 Because food security is important, and we have it now. 19:29:32 people will give a chance to comment again at the Board of Transmission Commissioner's level, whatever video thing. 19:29:40 We're at times. We're at Liberty through the 21st, soâ¦ 19:29:43 We still are listening to the public. The public areâ¦ 19:29:47 Well, we're not likely to finish this one night on the 7th, so we've got time. The mother can always reach out to us, you know, we're always available, our emails, our phone numbers, I think, even, are on the website. So, please, you know, 19:30:00 We went ahead and talked to you, Ben, I'm actually just kind of talked to you, was talking to him. Yeah, Matt? I think it would be okay toâ¦ 19:30:06 extend the deadline to the 5th, and then maybe send it out, butâ¦ 19:30:09 If there's a couple more coming in, and then a year or two. 19:30:13 So the problem thatâ¦ I'd be probably going to say exactly that. Yeah, the problem with that, that's where we started. 19:30:19 The originally, Greg said we could wait even if it's closed. Right. But what that means is that the staff won't get the chance to respond by the Sabbath, and that's what we want. They've beenâ¦ people have been heard, so we want staff to have a chance to come back with a response by the following. 19:30:37 doesn't mean that you stop all comments from coming in. 19:30:42 Because they might be similar. Oh, and it's comments that come in after the 31st will go to the Board of County Commissioners. Who are going to be the deciders in it. 19:30:52 still need your record. Yeah, but we've made no changes to the ad section, the existing ongoing is just a clarification. 19:31:01 Leathon, Joe Holtrug, they've provided comments. 19:31:04 They don't have issue. We're gonna get theirâ¦ their feedback in on this. 19:31:10 And provide that with our suggested language. 19:31:13 But, you know, they're the ones that are the biggest advocates for the farmer. They don't have issue with this. 19:31:20 So I think it's the new people getting involved, 19:31:24 same issues that, you know, Al Nathan, who's been around for 25 years, 19:31:30 or Joe Holtrup, who'sâ¦ 19:31:33 the conservation, you know, abuse. 19:31:36 he's basically looking out for the ag activity that he did with that issue with it. 19:31:40 All right, I think we're going to stick with the 1231, uh, uh, cutoff for the, um, hearing testimony by email. 19:31:50 And is there anything else really, like, good of the order before we cancel this meeting? 19:32:01 I can't conclude the city, sorry. I'm getting tired of trying to dimes in the language. 19:32:06 Quick question? We're good. 19:32:11 So, 5 yearsâ¦ 19:32:14 land goes follow, whatever, 5 years. 19:32:16 It's also the same amount of time for, uhâ¦ 19:32:18 For monitoring of vegetative mitigation, is there aâ¦ 19:32:21 coincidence there? 19:32:24 I don't know. Why don't you stay after and talk to us and to staff? All right, I'm gonna, um, bring this, uh, call this meetingâ¦ 19:32:33 What's slipping and saying? The church? 19:32:38 It's been a long day! Alright, thank you, everybody.