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Home My WebLink AboutMinutes Not RequiredLeslie Locke From: Tom Thiersch <thiersch-public@usregs.com> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 9:13 AM To: 'Mark McCauley'; 'Philip Hunsucker' Cc: Philip Morley Subject: CSFRC meetings - minutes - follow up MRSC Attachments: MRSC Inquiry - Audio or audio/video recordings as minutes (13.4 KB); CFSRC meetings - minutes - AVCA ? (38.7 KB) Gentlemen, Following up on a question a raised with you a couple of weeks ago, I asked MRSC for their opinion regarding the use of audio and / or AV recordings of public meetings; specifically, if such recordings would be legally sufficient to satisfy OPMA's "minutes" mandate in RCW 42.30.035. Their response, with which I agree, was that the OPMA does not explicitly require written minutes, and that recordings of meetings are a sufficient (although not necessarily optimal) "record of the proceedings". However, for any meeting (or part thereof) where the recording equipment fails, a record of the proceedings is still required. For example, I believe that, for at least part of one or more of the meetings of the Commercial Shooting Facilities Review Committee (CSFRC), the AVCaptureAll system malfunctioned, so some written minutes for that meeting are required. Similarly, written minutes will be required for (the portion of) the CSFRC meeting that was held at the Sportsman's Association site. Thank you, Tom Thiersch Jefferson County Leslie Locke From: Tom Thiersch <thiersch-public@usregs.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 10:16 AM To: 'Mark McCauley'; 'Philip Hunsucker' Cc: Philip Morley Subject: CFSRC meetings - minutes - AVCA ? Gentlemen, The meetings of the Commercial Shooting Facility Review Committee (CFSRC) are subject to the Open Public Meetings Act (OPMA, Chapter 42.30 RCW). The OPMA at RCW 42.30.035 states "The minutes of all regular and special meetings except executive sessions of such boards, commissions, agencies or authorities shall be promptly recorded and such records shall be open to public inspection." As far as I can tell, no written minutes of the CFSRC's meetings have yet been recorded. I very much appreciate the fact that the county is using AVCaptureAll (AVCA) to make the CSFRC meetings accessible remotely and on a realtime as well as delayed basis. The AVCA recordings of the meetings are not "minutes" in the traditional sense, but they might serve the same purpose. • The OPMA does not define "minutes" • Black's Law Dictionary: "the record of the proceedings at a meeting of directors or shareholders of a company is called the "minutes." " Under the Plain Meaning standard (how a word is commonly used or understood), I suppose that most people assume that "minutes" have to be in a written format, but I think that's antiquated thinking. I would be interested in finding out — that is, getting a legal opinion — if the AVCA recordings are sufficient to meet the "minutes" mandate of the OPMA. If they are sufficient, this technology could be a good time- and effort -saver not only for the CFSRC (which has not formally designated any of its members as a secretary), but also for other subagencies that are subject to the OPMA, as are many of the county's other committees. If AVCA recordings are not sufficient, some CFSRC minutes should be created; they need not be particularly detailed, but decisions are being made (usually by simple, informal consensus) at these meetings and it's important to have those decisions documented for the record when the work product of the CFSRC is finally issued. Thank you, Tom Thiersch Jefferson County Leslie Locke From: Linda Gallagher <LGallagher@mrsc.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2018 10:43 AM To: thiersch-public@usregs.com Cc: mhaas@cojefferson.wa.us Subject: MRSC Inquiry - Audio or audio/video recordings as minutes Inquiry: I am the current Chair of our local Ferry Advisory Committee (FAC), one of five members appointed by the Jefferson County Board of County Commissioners pursuant to RCW 47.60.310. In AGO 2018 NO. 2 > Jan 29 2018 Application Of The Open Public Meetings Act To Ferry Advisory Committees And The Ferry Advisory Committee Executive Committee the Attorney General determined that our FAC is a subagency that is subject to the Open Public Meetings Act (OPMA), Chapter 42.30 RCW. Regarding: RCW 42.30.035 Minutes. "The minutes of all regular and special meetings except executive sessions of such boards, commissions, agencies or authorities shall be promptly recorded and such records shall be open to public inspection." My question is: If an agency makes audio or audio/video recordings of its meetings, do those recordings meet the "minutes" requirement of the OPMA? "Minutes" are commonly thought of as a written record of proceedings, but wouldn't an audio or audio/video recording be equivalent? Note that the term "minutes" is not defined in the OPMA. Black's Law Dictionary: Minutes - "the record of the proceedings at a meeting of directors or shareholders of a company is called the "minutes". NB: "written" minutes is not explicitly stated as a requirement. Response: As an initial matter, I am copying the county prosecuting attorney on this response because MRSC is required to do so by RCW 43.110.030(3) through MRSC's contract with the state Department of Commerce with regard to requests for legal services from counties. As you have noted in your inquiry, minutes are required by the Open Public Meetings Act (OPMA), RC W 42.30.035: The minutes of all regular and special meetings except executive sessions of such boards, commissions, agencies or authorities shall be promptly recorded and such records shall be open to public inspection. So this statute requires minutes be made and kept open for public inspection for agencies and sub -agencies subject to the OPMA including your county's Ferry Advisory Committee (FAC). State law does not specify how the minutes are taken or what level of detail is required. Audio or video recordings of meetings may be made but are not required by state law. I did not find anything in state law or our inquiry response database that would prevent your committee from adopting a rule or procedure that provided that audio or audio/video recordings could serve as your meeting minutes. However, the state regulations for ferry advisory committees may address minutes and you should check with your Washington State Ferry contacts about this topic. Logically, I do not think the recordings would be a good substitute for more traditional written minutes summarizing the action considered and taken at your FAC meetings. It would be very difficult to review a recording of an entire meeting to determine what was considered and what action or actions took place. One would need to listen to the entire meeting in order to learn what happened. There is not state law one way or the other about whether a recording is enough. In general, MRSC takes the position that agencies should, at a minimum, take action minutes. "Action minutes" are a format where the minutes are kept relatively brief and are used to keep a record of key information about the meeting (e.g., when it was held, who attended from the agency, what items were considered on the agenda) and any action (e.g., motions, resolutions, votes) that was taken is described. The minutes are not meant to be a record of everything that was said, although brief descriptions of discussions are common. There is some guidance on this issue in Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised, Section 48 (2000), which states that the minutes "should contain mainly a record of what was done at the meeting, not what was said by the members." Many local governments follow Robert's Rules of Order and look to that source for guidance. Here is a link to an MRSC advisor blog post "Less is More, Action Minutes Serve the City Best". Regarding your committee policies and practices related to what type of minutes record to prepare and maintain for open public meetings, I recommend that you consult with your FAC legal counsel, likely the county prosecuting attorney or perhaps the Attorney General's Office. MRSC's legal guidance is general and not meant to substitute for legal advice regarding your particular facts. Linda Gallagher Legal Consultant 206.625.1300 I MRSC.org I Local Government Success