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HomeMy WebLinkAboutM082195 , MINUTES WEEK OF AUGUST 21, 1995 The Meeting was called to order by Chainnan Glen Huntingford in the presence of Commissioners Robert Hinton and Richard W ojt. COl\1MISSIONERS' BRIEFING SESSION Appointment of Building Industry Representative to Serve on Fire Code Advisory Board; Dave Clevenger: Commissioner Hinton moved to appoint Dave Clevenger as the building industry representative on the Fire Code Advisory Board. Commissioner Wojt seconded the motion which carried by a unanimous vote. Ita Mikkelsen. Treasurer re: Advertisement Expenses; Pioneer Build- ing: Ila Mikkelsen submitted a memo advising that the cost of advertising the Pioneer Building sale, as required locally and in out of State newspapers, will be approximately $5,000. If the building sells, that cost will be offset ITom proceeds of the sale. If the building does not sell, however, these advertising costs will not be replaced and it will take a long time to build the Treasurers 0 & M Fund back to its current level. She requested that the Board replenish the Treasurer's 0 & M Fund for this expense if the building doesn't sell. Commissioner Hinton moved that the advertising be done one time in the Los Angeles Times and that the Treasurer's 0 & M Fund be reimbursed, ITom the Current Expense Fund, for the cost of the advertising if the building doesn't sell. Commissioner Wojt seconded the motion which carried by a unanimous vote. Discussion and Possible Adoption of a Resolution In Support of Initia- tive 164: Chainnan Huntingford stated that there are different ways for the Board to make or not make a statement on this initiative. Commissioner Wojt stated that he doesn't feel the Board needs to make a statement on this initiative by passage of this resolution. Commissioner Hinton stated that Initiative 164 is very confusing and no one knows what the results will be if it passes. He doesn't feel there is any reason for the Board to deal with this resolution at this time. Chainnan Huntingford reported that this resolution was suggested by the Chelan County Commissioners. The discussion regarding this Initia- tive and Referendum 48, which is to repeal 1164, continued with ·several persons making statements about these issues. No action was taken on the proposed resolution. '101. 2t, r~,Œ 01026 Page: 1 £g,~p'!E;~~.~.~g,~~E~.M.~~.~i~.g..M~.~.l:!~~.~.:...Y:!..~~~.g,f..~~.~~~..?~.7...!.22?....................................................................... GMA Update: Senior Planner James Holland reported that the Prosecuting Attorney is reviewing the Hearings Board decision on the Forest Lands Ordinance. This Thursday at 7:00 p.m. is the final meeting for review of the West End Community Plan at the Clearwater School. The community mailing is currently at the printers and will be ready soon. This mailing will include maps showing current land use densities and proposed land use densities. The community plans have been reformatted for inclusion into the Comprehensive Plan. Deputy Public Services Director David Goldsmith reported on the amendment to the FEMA Ordinance and advised that he has drafted a letter to FEMA regarding the issues they raised in their letter. Of the 18 building pennits referenced by FEMA, investigation has shown that only 4 are possibly an issue. These are being investigated further. Draft Shoreline program amendments have been reviewed by the Shoreline Commission and should be forwarded to the Board soon. PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: The following were discussed - opposi- tion to a countywide flood tax (as stated in the Commissioners budget goals); where the money is coming ITom for the work on the Little Quilcene River; the Executive Session scheduled for this afternoon on litigation; happenings on Schwartz Road regarding the property owners request to pave the road; a statement against Referendum 48 and a request that the Board pass a resolution stating their opposition to this Referendum. APPROVAL AND ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT AGENDA: Commissioner Hinton moved to approve the items on the consent agenda with the exception of Item 4, which is to be deleted. Commissioner Wojt seconded the motion which carried by a unanimous vote. 1. AGREEMENT, Supplemental #PPG 003/558.60.41.10 re: Amendments to Section I. Section IV, and Section V; Consultant Services for Tri Area Planning for Jefferson County GMA/Comprehensive Plan Process; Olsen & Associates (Formerly Olsen & Greaves Inc., P.S.) 2. PROCLAMATION re: September 11, 1995 as 9-1-1 Day in Jefferson County 3. CONTRACT re: Funding to provide Community Alcohol, Chemical Dependency Prevention and other Drug Services through the County Health and Human Services Department; Department of Social and Health Services 4. DELETE Contract re: Jefferson County Health and Human Services Department Funding for Community Mobilization Against Substance Abuse; Department of Community, Trade and Economic Development 5. Reimbursable Work Request; (Public Works Department) Remove Sediment Deposits Upstream of the Snow Creek Fish Trap; State Department of Wildlife 6. RESOLUTION NO. 69-95 re: Temporary Restriction of Traffic on Oak Bay Road, County Road No. 569908 7. RESOLUTION NO.70-95 re: Statutory Vacation of a Portion of Pine Street In the Plat of Harrisburg; Harry & Kim Hansen, Petitioner 8. RESOLUTION NO.71-95 re: Vacation of a Portion of Sixth Avenue in the Plat of Iron dale; William & Barbara Molina, Petitioner VOL 21HŒ 0 l.U¿7 Page: 2 £~~~.~~~~~!.~.M.~~.!~g..~~~~.~.;...!.Y~~~.2f.~~~~~.~.~.{).22?...................................................................... THE CONSENT AGENDA - Continued: 9. RESOLUTION NO. 72-95 re: HEARING NOTICE; 1995 Budget Appropria- tions and Extensions; Various County Departments; Hearing Set for Tuesday, September 5, 1995 at 11:45 a.m. 10. Findings, Conclusions and Decision re: Preliminary Long Subdivision Approval, #SUB95-0007; to Create Brookside Estates a 6 Lot Long Subdivision; Located off of Chima cum Road adjacent to Redeemer Way, Chimacum; J. McCarron, J. Bishop, and G. Seil, Applicants II. CALL FOR BIDS re: One (1) New Truck Shop Hoist; Bid Opening, Tuesday, September 5,1995 at 11:00 a.m. 12. CONTRACT re: Chimacum Road Improvement Project #CR0953; Ace Paving Co., Inc. 13. Findings, Conclusions and Decision re: Subdivision Approval of Port Ludlow Place, #SP A94-0006; 2 Lot Commercial Short Plat; Located at the Corner of Oak Bay Road and Paradise Bay Road, Port Ludlow; Mark and Carol Moriarty 14. Letter to Bureau of Indian Affairs re: Tribal Trust Land Designation; Gardiner BUSINESS FROM COUNTY DEPARTMENTS: PLANNING AND PERMIT CENTER Discussion re: Review Planning Commission's Recommendation to Adopt an Ordinance Amending the Provisions of the Jefferson County Im- plementing Ordinance; State Environmental Policy Act, No. 7-84, Related to Minor Procedural Corrections, Revisions and Updates, Public Notice Requirements and the Appeals Process: Assistant Planner Lesa Barnes reported that the Planning Depart- ment staff recommends that the Board refer these proposed changes to the Prosecuting Attorney for legal review to include review for consistency with regulatory reform. Commissioner W ojt moved to submit both this ordinance and the following one to the Prosecuting Attorney's Office for legal review. Commissioner Hinton seconded the motion which carried by a unanimous vote. Recommendations from Planning Commission re: Changes in the Subdivision Ordinance for review by the Prosecuting Attorney: (See above) PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT Lou Haff, Acting Public Works Director re: Presentation of Community Services Award to AI Scalf: Lou Haff, Acting Public Works Director, presented the annual Public Works Department community service award to Al Scalf for his contribu- tions to the community during 1994. Review and Possible Adoption of Stormwater Ordinance: Bruce Laurie, Public Works Department, reported that the proposed changes in this ordinance would require that the Hearing Examiner Ordinance be updated also. There is a question if the Hearing Examiner Ordinance can be expanded to include authority to hear non-land use VOL 21 fAŒ 01.628 Page: 3 f9.~~~.~~9.~~,fl~.M,~~,!j,~},~,IMj,~}~~~~I~,;",y:!',~~~,9.f..~~.~~~~..?,1.'1,},22?..",."""""""......."""..,........""""".""""""... issues such as an appeal of the provisions of the Stormwater Ordinance. The current Prosecuting Attorney has not reviewed this draft ordinance. In response to a question from Commissioner Wojt, Bruce Laurie reported that the public hearings have been held on this ordinance, the public comments were reviewed, and there have not been any substantive changes to the ordinance. There are no fees suggested in the ordinance. There are some services that could have fees established for them in the future. It isn't known how much work impact there will be ITom the implementation of this ordinance. Commissioner Hinton moved to refer this ordinance to the Prosecuting Attorney for legal review. Commissioner Wojt seconded the motion which carried by a unanimous vote. Review Draft Letter to Michael Shadda re: Acceptance of Offer to Purchase Property in Quilcene: Eileen Simon, Public Works, reported that when the original letter of intent was sent to Mr. Shadda there was a deadline of September 15, 1995 for the final resolution of this matter. She then presented a draft letter to Mr. Shadda regarding the County's offer. Lou Haff, Acting Public Works Director, explained that there is a federal law that requires re-location costs be paid if there are federal funds used in the project. Currently there are no federal funds being used, but the County could jeopardize federal funds being used on any project on that property in the future if the County doesn't have a plan to pay relocation costs. The goal of the Federal Relocation Act is not to allow the property owner being relocated to benefit financially. A response is needed ITom Mr. Shadda in a timely manner to allow the County to open escrow by September 15. Al Scalf reported that the decision before the Board today is their concurrence with fair market value ($238,000.00) and direction to the Public Works staff to proceed to negotiate with Mr. Shadda. The discussion continued regarding the relocation costs, the fair market value, and the amount being offered for the property. Lou Haff suggested that the Board seek the advice of the Prosecuting Attorney. Commissioner Wojt moved to approve and sign the letter to Mr. Shadda seeking his concurrence to go forward with the purchase of his property at fair market value. Chairman Huntingford stated that he wants to see all of the costs before a final agreement is reached. Commissioner Wojt changed his motion to indicate that the letter be sent to Mr. Shadda, but before anything is finalized that the Board be made aware of all the costs. The letter will also include a statement that the County reserves the right to withdraw the purchase offer if the total costs exceed a reasonable amount. Chairman Huntingford seconded the motion. Commissioner Wojt and Chainnan Huntingford voted for the motion. Commissioner Hinton voted against the motion. The motion carried. The Public Works staff will redraft the letter and bring it back to the Board for their signatures. The Board met in EXECUTIVE SESSION with the Prosecuting Attorney ITom 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. regarding litigation. The meeting was recessed at the end of the Executive Session and reconvened at 7:00 p.m~ at the Quilcene Community Center for the following hearing. VOI_ ~.i rAG~ o 1029 Page: 4 £9.~}E;~~.~.~9.~~,~,~,M,~~.!j.~.~,.M~.~,l;!~~.~,;.,,'!!..~~~,9.f,~,~,~~~~"?,~,i..J.22?"""...,...........",,,............""".......................", HEARING (at the QuiJcene Community Center) re: Creation of a "No Shooting" Area in the Vicinity of Quilcene Bay: Chairman Huntingford explained how the ordinance which allows the establishment of "No Shooting" zones came about. He advised that written testimony will be accepted until 5:00 p.m. on Friday, August 25, 1995 at the Commissioners Office. He then read the hearing procedures and opened the public hearing. A man asked that the Chairman read the ordinance for those present. The Chairman explained that the County already held a hearing on the ordinance which allows the establishment of these zones. This hearing is to allow people to comment on the establishment of a fiNo Shooting" Zone on Quilcene Bay. Herb Beck, read ITom a list called Ten Tips for Successful Relocation in a Small Town. Every community has their own way of life and new people shouldn't try to buck their way of life. Before a young person can go hunting they have to pass an examination on how to handle a firean11 and hunting procedures. His property has been in his family since 1917. There has never been a fatality ITom someone hunting birds, ducks, game, etc. on the tideflats. His property would be in the "no shooting" zone, and there is over 3,000 feet ITom his property to another house. The maximum range for a shotgun, with new steel shot, is about the length of a football field. He doesn't go along with this ordinance. It is inappropriate at this time. He has not seen a swan hurt. He occasionally leases ground for ducks and doesn't feel this ordinance is in his best interest. He works closely with the Game Department on duck hunting. Fred Wurden. 1360 East Quilcene Bay, stated that he lives right across the bay ITom the Little and Big Quilcene rivers. He has hunted duck and geese most of his life and has nothing against hunting. He's never hunted in anyone else's back yard and that's what's going on in Quilcene Bay. There are shots fired at all hours of the day. There are laws pertaining to noise pollution that apply here. He objects to the noise mostly, not the hunting. Allan Kollar. 1420 East Quilcene Road. shared his experiences. He said that he has hunted ducks for 30 years and has had a few bad experiences in Quilcene. Someone shot ducks in the water about 75 feet away ITom him. It's not illegal to shoot ducks in the water, but they should be retrieved from the water. These people did not retrieve the ducks. An unidentified man added that they also shot his tame geese. Mr. Kollar continued by saying that unless you are there everyday, people don't realize the problem. He walks each moming around his property and has had to pick up dead ducks. He has witnessed two gentlemen get out of a white car to shoot at the swans. Many hunters last year would anchor out ITont of their house and pass shoot at the ducks. The land around Quilcene Bay is more than 50% residential. The State has to open the land that they just purchased on the Bay to State hunting. When the new hunters come in they will have access to the whole Bay. The Ordinance is set up to protect people, individuals, and families. It also addresses the element of terrain. The terrain around Quilcene Bay is not an ideal hunting situation. Displacing a group of hunters ITom one recreational situation can't have priority from the protection and safety of 50 people along the shore. Hunting is one recreation and it eliminates 3 or 4 recreations in that area at that time. This isn't the only place to hunt. The hunting situation in this area isn't going to get any better. If it isn't addressed now it will escalate and someone will get hurt. Mary Kollar said that she swims in the Bay, and it doesn't take much to swim ITom one side to the other. She doesn't swim in duck weather, but she does canoe in the Bay, at VOL :21 rAG~ 0:1030 Page: 5 £2~~~.~~2~~I~I~IM,y.~I!i.~?I~..M~.1}~~~I~,:,..Y!..~~~.2f.ð:~~.~~~..?.~.7",~.222"""""""""""""""""..""............................., that time. She is fughtened because she wakes up every morning before dawn hearing gun shots. She respects the memories that people have of their childhood when this was a different area. Those memories stay with people even though the community has changed. It is virtually lunch time walking distance ITom the school to where people are firing guns. Lorna Ward. 41 McArdle Avenue. stated that they are long time residents and they, their sons and grandsons have always hunted on the Bay. She doesn't know why people think they have to punish all for a few. They would like their grandchildren to learn to hunt. People hunting on the west side of the Bay will certainly not reach the other side of the Bay with a shotgun. She has never seen anyone shooting rifles in this area. People have moved here because they like the atmosphere and the nlral quality. They have privileges they don't want taken away. Mark Millard. 303075 Highway 101. Brinnon. said that he enjoys hunting. He is managing his father's sporting goods store and they sell quite a bit of steel shot to people in Quilcene who hunt. The hunting regulations require 200 yard safety zones around houses. The Department ofFish and Wildlife have decided that 200 yards is an ample safety zone for a shotgun. There are not many people here who will shoot a duck over a 100 yards away. He would be more than happy to see people put up a 200 yard perimeter on any dwelIing. Quilcene is rural - there's fanllland and open tidelands. It's not right to close hunting down in this whole area. If it's populated put up a 200 yard safety zone. People can't hunt before dawn. Barry Savage. 1719 Linger Longer Road. stated that the real issue is growth. Unfortunately a lot of people are discovering Quilcene. There is a safety issue here and he doesn't want to take anyone's livelihood away, but he thinks there has to be some compromise. There are people coming in ITom out of town that come in raise hell and then leave. He feels a compromise can be worked out. Anne Ricker. 1160 E. Quilcene Road, reported that more than 80% of the registered voters within the proposed area want the ordinance. These are the property owners whose lives and property are actually directly effected by the careless shooting which goes on year around. It's not just hunters) it's poachers and target practice. It's not just duck hunters, and certainly not local hunters. Hunting is a privilege, a recreation, a sport, and fun, but the right to safety is guaranteed. This action was taken because people are worried about their safety. The problems of increased population and more hunters are not going to go away. Only 20% of the privately owned lots in Quilcene Bay are not occupied by penllanent residences and that will change shortly. There will be a lot more people along the waterfront in this area very soon. Coast Oyster did not open their hundreds of acres to hunting when they owned it. She then read the following letter ITom Jim Donaldson: "Apparently there has been some recent discussion regarding bird hunting at the north end of Qui/cene Bay. Coast Seafoods until recently owned several hundred acres of tidelands' in this area for many years. We did not allow hunters on our property as long as 1 have been associated with management of our Qui/cene holdings which has been since] 979. The only access that was allowed by the public on our property was for Geoduck and Dungeness Crab harvest during extreme low tides as long as individuals did not disturb our clam or oyster re- sources in this area. Sincerely Jim Donaldson. " VOL 21 rAG~ 0 1031 Page: 6 f2æ!E.~~.~!2~~,~,~,M,~~.!},~}Jf,.M~.~~.~!~~,~.;,..Y!..~~~..,?f.Ô,~,~~~~"?,!,{,.,!,22?"""""".,......."",,.,..........."""...............,..."", State Fish and Wildlife has also purchase other lands and they will be open to hunters. If this is publicized there will be lots more hunters and lots more problems on the Bay. If that happens we're not going to have many birds left for anyone to shoot. The State wants the local hunters to oppose this (petition) so that they can open the Bay to the rest of the hunters in the State. The days of family duck hunting are almost over. One of the reasons they have worked through this local ordinance is to have local control. This action does not involve the State or the Federal government. If this doesn't work, we can change it for our County. She concluded by stating that she is tired of people shooting over, near, and into her home. Larry Schinke, 801 Linger Longer Road, stated that he has hunted for 45 years. He has observed hunting regulations, safety mles and safety zones, and he expects all hunters to do the same. His house is just north of the new State tidelands. He has seen several things happen that have led him to sign this petition. He has seen people driving back and forth on Linger Longer Road looking for ducks in the water and if they see them they jump out of the car and shoot ITom the road and the banks of the road. He has also seen people park their cars and then blast ITom the road when they see a bird or duck. He's seen them jump out of their cars in the parking area for the clam beds and blast away at ducks in the pond, even though there is a new house in line with that pond. He's seen people in boats, under power or drifting, waiting to get close enough to a raft and then jump up and blast away any direction to anything flying. Since the State lands opened up last year hunters walked up and down the property line between his property and the State land, shooting at anything flying or flushing. His house is within 200 feet of that property line. There has been shooting early in the morning or in the afternoon on beautiful sunny days. He and his grandchildren love to be out on his property, and many times along that property line. Every time swans are out on the Bay and shooting takes place, the swans flush and leave the area and don't come back that day. He feels he has the right to be on his property with his family without the threat to safety ITom the shooting he has observed in the winter months. There is really a problem here that needs to be addressed, either with the petition or with an acceptable and reasonable compro- mIse. Scott Bancroft 20631 QuiIcene, asked how many of the people who have observed illegal actions by hunters, called the police on those particular instances? How many of these people have "No Trespassing" signs? These actions are against the law and the people who are doing those things are not sportsmen. They are breaking the law. He advised that he will have a hard time not going out and shooting on the Bay, if he asks a property owner in that area if he can cross their property to hunt on the Bay, and they say he can. Private citizens rights are being talked about out here. Arlene Schinke. 801 Linger Longer Road. said that Jefferson County put this no shooting ordinance on the books to protect the public health, safety and welfare. She supports it in the area described in the petition that was signed. She comes ITom a hunting family and knows that shotguns can maim and kill. People don't just hunt by sitting on one side of the Bay. The houses on the other side of the Bay aren't safe, just by virtue of that. Hunters move across the Bay. They are not talking about trespassing. We're talking about people who are legally hunting on State land just on the other side of their property line. She understands and sympathizes with people who want to carry on traditions with their children, but she wants her grandéhildrèn to survive. They go out on their property to play and hunters don't see them and have no way of knowing they vo,-21 ýAG~ 01032 Page: 7 .Ç9.~!E.~~.~.~.c?'~~.f.~.M.~~.ti.~.~..r:1.~.l1~~~.~.;...~~~!~.9.f..Ô~.~~~~..?~.?..!.~~?....................................................................... are there when they are shooting at ducks. She is sure that most hunters hunt responsi- bly, but the sad fact is that 90% of our laws are created to control 10% of the population. Things are changing around the Bay and things are not going to get any better. The people with homes on the water are the ones that are most acutely affected. They don't want to see someone killed before action is taken. She concluded by noting that she doesn't want to interfere with the hunters, but her priority is for safety, health and welfare and something needs to be done. Don Ward. 41 McArdle Avenue. said that he has hunted here for 60 years. At one time pheasant hunting was done near his house and the people were told not to shoot at the cows or at the house and there was never any trouble. If people are shooting at houses they should be reported to the Sheriffs Office or the Game Warden. Ifpeople are shooting out of boats in an illegal manner, then they should be reported. You can't hunt at all in the cities, but if you want to get shot move into a city. Poachers don't care about the laws, so even a no shooting zone won't stop them. The State is talking about extend- ing the season for shooting ducks and geese because they are multiplying so fast. As far as the Coast Oyster land, he hunted there years ago and has never seen it posted or had anyone say to him don't hunt here. There is very poor hunting on that property. As far as the swans are concerned, he has watched them since they first came. He hunted on the Bay during hunting season with the swans around, shot ducks, and the swans paid very little attention, even when he shot within 200 feet of them. The number of swans in the Bay increases every year. When these people moved here, hunting was allowed in the Bay. He doesn't like it when new people that move in say lets change things and make these people quit hunting here. He then presented the Board with a petition that he reported included 327 signatures of people who are opposed to the creation of this no shooting zone. Richard Steele. 1511 Dabob Post Office Road. said that he has been around Dabob for 50 years. He has never hunted in Quilcene Bay, but he has always hunted in Dabob Bay. He said it sounds like there is a lot of problems here due to illegal shooting. The hunting season only lasts about two months. He hopes that everyone posts their own property. A shotgun can be just as dangerous at short range as a rifle. No one will deny the danger of guns if they're improperly used. We have Sheriffs and neighbors to stop this type of action. In some areas, to keep hunting practices under control, they allow hunting by permission only. When someone Sif,'11S their name to hunt on another persons property, surely they are going to behave themselves or the man who owns the property will have their name and address and could send the Sheriff after them to be responsible for their actions. He believes people should be able to allow hunting in a community and not be fearful for their lives. He feels that if this type of regulation will prevent a person ITom hunting on their own property, then it's a bad move. Cindy McCabe. 516 McInnis Road, related her experience with hunters. A shot went by her when she was talking with a neighbor on Quilcene road. That was too close a call for her. Rick Olson. PO Box 773. asked if this action will take his hunting rights away and give them to another group of people? Representatives of the DNR advised him that anytime there is water covering aquatic lands Tribal members may hunt there. He feels that the problems these residents are having can be solved with a spot, and scope and a set of field glasses. Ifhe was having these problems, he would find out who was in the boat, how many of them there are and what they look like. When they got to shore he would VOL 21 rAG~ 0 .1Ø33 Page: 8 £9.œ~~~,~~9.~~,~,~,M.~~ !j ~,~. Mj,~~~~,~,; Y'!..~.~~..?[,~,~!,~~~~"?,!,? ,!,22?",.."",...........",,.,..........."""......................"" have a cop sitting there. You don't take away ITom your neighbor. That's what causes a little town like this to be in turmoil. He suggested that the situation could be resolved by simply drawing a line down the middle of the Bay. Let people hunt on the west side of the Bay and not hunt on the east side. Pat Chadwick, PO Box 431, stated that most of the time the perceived threat is worse than the real threat ever could be. These folks can post their places. There is division in the community. People can move to a community and not be a part of it. This is deeper than just a hunting issue, it is a private property rights issue. If a man wants to go out on his property and shoot, he should be allowed to shoot. This issue could have been handled more subtly. The issue is a sense of community, a sense of identity. If you take that away you take away who we are and you take away our heart and our soul. The hunting that goes on in the Bay is with a shotgun with a maximum range of 140 yards. Kristen Kench, 82 Leadville Avenue, stated that she was the caretaker of 20 acres of property on the waterfront of Quilcene Bay. The property was posted and they found used shotgun shells al1 over it. People ignored the posting. The majority of people obey the signs, but there are people that don't. There are people who don't pay attention to what they do. She can understand the concerns of these people. She then read a newspaper account of an incident in Pierce County where a boy was killed by a stray bullet while he was out riding his bike. A number of citizens in that area had tried unsuccessfully to get a no shooting area established there. The landowner, the perpetra- tor and the County were sued. She concluded that she personally knows of people who have had rifle bullets go close to their children. There are people that are not careful and who do not care about the residents. She understands both sides of this issue and hopes that it can be resolved. Wayne Hoffinan, stated that he was a safety hunting instmctor for about 15 years. Many of the people in this room, took his class. We don't need to set a precedent by closing off this area to hunting. If that is done then this will spread to the Dosewallips and the Duckabush. We don't want a precedent set because this is just some more of our rights being alleviated. Barbara Couvion. 1150 E. Quilcene Road, said that they purchased their property eight years ago and they love the Osprey, Bald Eagles and swans. She has seen hunters shooting from their boats when the boats are moving which is illegal. She hates to see a no shooting ordinance because they have apple trees and she sometimes needs to shoot a crow, and because it will limit them too. They don't know if they feel safe leaving their homes during hunting season. She and her husband feel that this would take away their right to shoot, but at the same time, they feel like they may be in jeopardy because of the hunting. It's not just shotguns that are going off. Rifle bullets can go a long way, and they have even heard automatic gun fire. Donna Jensen, 1340 Leland, said that she has a real fear that this (no shooting area being established) will spread. Lake Leland isn't as wide as Quilcene Bay and there is a safety concern there. Brad Brady, Brinnon, stated that the State Department ofFish and Wildlife keeps yearly records on people that are killed or wounded by hunters. You will find if you check, that there haven't been any that have been hit with shotguns.· The problem here is probably VOL 21 rAŒ 0 1034 Page: 9 - .ç9.œœ~~,~~9.~~~,:.~,M,~~,!i,~,~.,Mi,~~~~,~,;,.,y!"~~!~,.<?f.,~~~,~~~"?,~,?",~,22?""""""",....."",,,....."....."""",.."....""""""" going to be with rifles and not shotguns. He feels that safety zones and posting property should be looked at before doing this. Richard Borden, reported that he has lived on the Bay since 1951 and has hunted ducks on the Coast Oyster property, on the Bay and all over. He purchase waterffont property so that his children and grandchildren could continue to hunt when he passes on. He doesn't want his benefit on that Bay taken away ITom him. He thinks property owners pay enough taxes to keep their rights. Gary PhiHips, said that if a no shooting zone can be established on Quilcene Bay, then the same could be done on the Dosewallips, the Duckabush and the flooded valleys like Beaver Valley, Chimacum Valley and Lake Leland to the point where there is absolutely no hunting in eastern Jefferson County. The swans have only been here for 10 or 15 years and there was duck hunting before that. He doesn't feel the duck hunting has had an impact on them. It seems like we've gotten to the point where no one has any tolerance for anyone else. This is a mral area. If we have a total lack of tolerance for the people around us, pretty soon the only people we can stand are the people just like us and we can't stand them either. We need to get over this and understand that this is a mral county with lots of different uses and different people and we've got to learn to live with it. From a safety standpoint, there's no different safety issue than there has been the past 40 or 50 years. There's always been people living over there and people duck hunting. He doesn't feel this makes any sense. Todd MiHer stated that he has had two windows shot out. He feels that if someone is shooting out there and it's not legal, then they shouldn't be shooting there. There is an old expression that your right to swing your fist stops at my nose and bullets go past my nose. Ray Broderson, 444 I Dabob Road, said that he has hunted and he understands what both groups are saying. There are already laws to take care of all the problems right now. Get us another Game Warden who is in Quilcene. Let's get the Sheriff out and stop these guys. Let's enforce the game laws. Let's do something about those people that are causing problems for us and for you. Judith Lucia, 1597 East Quilcene Road, stated that she jogs on the roads around Quilcene. During hunting season she jogs down East Quilcene Road and one time when she was walking up by the log dump, there was a hunter below her. The hunter, aimed the gun and tracked a bird up over his head until he was pointing the gun directly at her. She yelled and then fled. She didn't get his license number because she was more concerned with getting out of there. People don't know how many people live in the woods in this area. It's really scary. Twice recently they've had people shot toward their property ITom East Quilcene Road because they don't know anyone is up there. There's nothing to report because these people get in their cars and drive off before you see them. There are a number ofkayakers and canoers using the Bay. With the increasing population of hunters and the increased population along the Bay, she stated she is aITaid someone is going to get hurt. Brian Barker. 3720 East Quilcene Road, stated that he is not a hunter and never has been, however, he respects hunters and respect the situation we are in. He stated he is a student of human nature and appreciates that the Board is at this meeting to listen to VOL 21rAr;~ 0 IV3S Page: 10 £9.~!Ej~.~.~9.!~ ~,~~ I M.~~.!.i.~~.~.. M~,~~~!~~,~,;",Y:!.. 7.~~.. 9. t.,~,~~,~~ ~ ~ ,,?,!, 1. ..!.2 2?.......... ............. .,............ .."............................, everyone. He doesn't feel this will change anyone's mind. As County Commissioners the following needs to be analyzed: 1) Changes are taking place. 2) There is more State property and access to the Bay. 3) There is more boat hunting taking place. 4) There are more homeowners in the area. The Commissioners need to detennine how to respond to these needs. The people that are heavily effected are saying that this isn't a perceived threat. It is a real threat that has to be dealt with. Scott Abbott 1160 East Quilcene Road, read ITom Section C, Part III of the ordinance. He asked what was met by general welfare? Chainnan Huntingford answered that he feels it means for the good of everyone. Mr. Abbott then read the meaning of welfare. He asked if having gun clubs across the Bay would appreciate or devalue their land? People aren't happy because they don't like the sounds of gunshots in the morning and they're worried about their well being. That's the criteria the Commissioners have to decide on. The people who signed that petition have a reason for asking for this. He reads the ordinance as saying that every excuse is a good one. He added that he is a hunter and he believes in property rights and doesn't like the ordinance, but he felt he had to sign the petition because people are hunting in their ITont yards. They have a right not to have people hunting in their front yard. He doesn't like people who post their land and he won't do that. Some property owners along the Bay have said they are going to work with gun clubs, which means there will be more hunters. Dan Newman, stated that he has some prime duck hunting property on Quilcene Bay. He lets every kid that wants to hunt, hunt there. He feels confident that when he lets them hunt that they can handle their gun. He's owned and paid taxes on that land for 40 years. His children have hunted the tide flats everyday that they could. Mr. Newman stated that when you take the hunting away from Quilcene Bay, you are taking his property rights at the same time. He doesn't feel its right for the Commissioners to take his rights away from him. Doug Reeves. Quilcene, said that he was born and raised in Quilcene. He hunted in the area. He doesn't think there has ever been one instance of anyone being shot or windows shot out. Gun clubs are not going to come down here and run all over peoples property. If you have to shut the hunting on one side of the Bay and not on the other. Don't take the hunting away ITom everyone. The Chairman asked how people would feel if there was a no shooting zone 200 yards out ITom the east side of the Bay? Would that be reasonable? The County doesn't have the authority to keep boats off the Bay. Commissioner Hinton stated that the only authority the County has is to establish a no shooting zone for safety reasons. The State Department of Fish and Wildlife controls hunting seasons, hunting areas, and hunting limits. Commissioner Hinton then reminded everyone that the public record will be open for written comments until 5 pm on Friday. The Board will consider all of the testimony, oral and written. He then observed that some of the concerns such as: shooting ITom motorized boats, noise pollution, shooting before dawn, shooting swans, shooting game birds with rifles and automatic weapons, killing non game birds and leaving them on the tidelands, poachers, reckless target shooting, shooting from the roads in vehicle, VOL 21 1036 ... tAr,~ 0 Page: 11 .. .çg,~}E;~~.~.~.<?'~~ ~x,~, M,~~!j,~,f?, ,M~,~1~~~.~.; '" Y:!.. ~~ ~ I g, f.,ð,~~,~~~ ~ ,,?,~,?..!.22 2"""""""..........,.",.".......... .,.,........".....". ."", trespassing, and stressing wildlife are all violations of the game laws and State statutes. There hasn't been any testimony ITom the people with these concerns that they have called a Game Warden or law enforcement official regarding these actions. If the County does or doesn't enact this ordinance it is still encumbant on the people that have a problem with the shooting to identify the perpetrator to law enforcement and then go to Court and testify and identify that person. After further discussion of the need to enforce existing laws and the time it takes enforcement to respond to complaints, the Chaiol1an closed the public hearing. ~ ~ JEFFERSON COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS ~'ù:_ 2l w;r· n 1037 Page: 12