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MINUTES
WEEK OF AUGUST 8, 1988
Chairman B. G. Brown called the meeting to order in the presence
of Commissioner Larry W. Dennison and Commissioner George C. Brown.
Ralph Anderson, Secretary, Cape Georae Sewer District re:
Resolution Authorizina the Formation of an U.L.I.D. by Cape Georae Sewer
District No.1: Planning and Building Department Director, David Goldsmith
and Public works Director, Gary Rowe were both present when Ralph Anderson
explained that the Cape George Sewer District No. 1 has been working, since
its' formation in 1985, to develop a plan to provide residents of the Cape
George Colony and Village with a sewer system~ After reviewing several
. alternatives, a plan has been developed to transmit the sewage to the City
of Port Townsend facility for treatment. The State Department of Ecology
advised the Sewer District to work with the City and the City to design their
new secondary treatment. facility with a capacity that will handle the Cape
George treatment needs. The commitment to use the Port Townsend facility,
Mr. Anderson reported, must be made by the formation of a new U.L.I.D., which
requires the approval of the Planning, Public Works and Health Departments.
In order to form the U.L.I.D., a resolution needs to be passed by the County
indicating that the concept is acceptable.
Gary Rowe presented a letter of approval of the Cape George Sewer District
Comprehensive Plan as the engineer of the Board, which the Chairman read.
Gary Rowe then explained that to meet statutory requirements this project
will have to be tested against the County Comprehensive Plan, as well as area
wide sewer plans from the Department of Social and Health Services and the
County's Mid-Quimper Peninsula.
Planning and Building Department Director, David Goldsmith added that there
is a requirement that a U.L.I.D. must be found consistent with the provisions
of the Land Use Plan as well as the General Sewer Plan, Water Plan and Basin
Plans. He then submitted a Memorandum recommending that the Board approve
the formation of the U.L.I.D. with the following conditions:
1) No individual or group connections shall be allowed to the
sewer interceptor, outside established district and city
boundaries, unless the requesting property is formally annexed
into the Cape George Sewer District or the City of Port
Townsend.
2) No sewer service will be provided nor annexations allowed to
areas designated by the Jefferson Counry Comprehensive Plan
as "rural" or "resource production," unless said area is first
redesignated to a land use classification where urban and/or
suburban type utilities are appropriate,
'tot.
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Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of August 8, 1988
Page:
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Ralph Andeison stated that the only possible additional connection that may
be made into the interceptor, would be for the wastewater from the County
landfill and he has discussed this with Public Work and Planning. Gary Rowe
added that this may be an option in the future, but it is not being planned
currently.
Commissioner Dennison moved to approve Resolution No. 78-88 authorizing the
formation of a U.L.I.D. by the. Cape George Sewer District No.1 including the
condi tions suggested by the Planning Department and contingent upon the
approval by the Prosecuting Attorney,. Commissioner George Brown seconded the
motion, which carried by a unanimous vote.
BUSINESS FROM COUNTY DEPARTMENTS
PUBLIC WORKS
Discussion with John'Duaan re: Biller Road Riaht-of-Wav: John and
Marie Dugan were present, when Public Works Director, Gary Rowe explained
that the Dugan's would like the opportunity to appeal the Board's decision
to issue a license to use the County road right-of-way to Mrs. Audrey Seidel.
This right-of-way is across from the property owned by Mrs. Seidel and the
Dugan's.
Mr. John Dugan presented a plat map showing the Oak Bay Road, Hiller Road
intersection. He explained that his property is Lot 15, with Mrs. Seidel's
property being lot 16. Mrs. Seidel's license is to use the right-of-way for
65 feet, part of which runs in front of Mr. Dugan's property. Mr. Dugan
stated that he has written letters over the past two years about how Mrs.
Seidel has been using this right-of-way. He objects to her use of the
property because the chicken coops, burn barrels and tires that are on the
right-of-way cause sight problems at the stop sign. Mrs. Seidel has put her
property up for sale and the issuance of this license has enhanced the sale
of her property, Mr. Dugan added. Mr. Dugan stated that he objects to the
County giving Mrs. Seidel a license to use the right-of-way in front of his
property, especially since the neighbors were not given a chance to comment
on the license.
Mr. Dugan then read a letter he received from the Prosecuting Attorney
stating that Mrs. Seidel had been issued a license to use the right-of-way
and that Mr. Dugan has been trespassing on County property and interfering
wi th Mrs. Seidel's use of the right-of-way. Mr. Dugan stated that the right-
of-way has been used in a fashion which he has objected to for some time and
when he was notified, by this letter, that she was given a license to extend
that use, he asked to make this appeal to the Board. Mr. Dugan said that he
uses the right-of-way to store wood, as does his neighbor who owns Lot 14.
Commissioner Dennison explained that the County grants licenses to use county
right-of-way for many reasons. If Mrs. Seidel is using the right-of-way for
activities other than what the license was granted for, then the County will
have to consider whether or not to rescind the license. A site inspection
will be made to confirm this information. Mr. Dugan stated that he asked to
be issued a license to use the right-of-way across from his lot, but never
received an answer, and he asked that the Board consider issuing him a
license.
Commissioner Dennison moved to direct the Public Works Department to make a
site inspection and determine whether or not the current licensee is using
the right-of-way for the purposes set forth in the license agreement and
report back to the Board. Commissioner George Brown seconded the motion
which carried by a unanimous vote.
I VOl 111 Wft 1_ 2585
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Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of August 8, 1988
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PLANNING AND BUILDING
State Environmental PolicY Act Review: Taylor Shellfish Hatchery
Project SDP88-0013, Dabob Bay: Taylor United. Inc.: Bill Taylor of Taylor
United, Inc. was present when Associate Planner, Jim Pearson, reviewed the
environmental checklist for this proposal to construct a shellfish hatchery
and setting facility on the Boulton peninsula located on the western side of
Dabob Bay approximately one-half a mile north of Broad Spit. The facility
would include a pole building, an algae culture shed, a seed culture shed,
three culture tanks and a concrete slab. The hatchery operation 'would
require the withdrawal of 150 to 300 gallons of water per minute from Dabob
Bay. The water would have algae added to it to feed larval and juvenile
shellfish. It would then be filtered and discharged back into the bay. It
is estimated that about 90% of the algae will be consumed so that there would
not be any great addition of algae into the water.
The building will be setback 45 feet from the shoreline, and the project will
require a hydraulic permit from the State Department of Fisheries. A State
Department of Ecology discharge permit and an Army Corps of Engineers Section
10 permit will also be required.
Commissioner George Brown moved to issue and determination of non-sig-
nificance and lead agency status for the Taylor United, Inc. project as
presented. Commissioner Dennison seconded the motion which carried by a
unanimous vote.
Jim Pearson reported that since this shoreline project is fairly large and
is located on Dabob Bay which is a rural, undeveloped area, the Planning
Department recommends that this application be referred to the Shoreline
Commission for their review and recommendation. Commissioner Dennison moved
to refer this project to the Shoreline Commission for deliberation and
recommendation. Commissioner George Brown seconded the motion. The motion
carried by a unanimous vote.
Dale and William Leavitt re: Leavitt planned Unit Development: Mr.
John F. Hayden, Attorney, representing the Leavitt's and Deputy Prosecuting
Attorney, Steve olsen were present as well as the Leavitts, Planning and
Building Department Director, David Goldsmith and Senior Planner Rachel
Nathanson. to discuss this project with the Board.
Rachel Nathanson referred to the. Memorandum from the Planning Department to
the Board dated July 29, 1988 g~ving the history of the Leavitt's proposal
for a planned unit development.
Attorney John F. Hayden explained that it is his understanding that this
meeting is being held because the Leavitt's have a building permit pending
with the County. In response to the July 29, 1988 memo, Mr, Hayden stated
that it appears that the Planning Department is trying to convince the Board
that there have been substantial changes in the project from the original
proposal for which a Determination of Non-Significance was issued and
therefore the DNS sh.ould be withdrawn. The applicants take great exception
to that and suggests that the Determination of Non-Significance that was
issued (April 26, 1988) was nota mitigated DNS as the Planning Department
indicates. Mr. Hayden added that it would be a serious mistake on the part
of the County to withdraw the DNS that was issued.
The binding site plan proposed by the County which essentially seeks to
attach mitigative measures as covenants in perpetuity to the land, Mr. Hayden
continued, is inappropriate for the County to require and is not legally
enforceable. The applicant chooses not to enter into that type of contract
and is simply applying for a bui~ding permit. The proposal presented (dated
June 14, 1988) by the Leavitts meets every sort of legal requirement and is
virtually identical to the proposal fo~ which the County issued a DNS.
VOL
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Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of August 8, 1988
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Commissioner Dennison asked Mr. Hayden, how the mitigative measures would be
attached to the project if they are not made a part of a binding site plan?
Mr. Hayden stated that the Leavi tts agree to develop this project as
specified in the proposal dated June 14, 1988 which accompanied the applica-
tion for building permit.
Rachel Nathanson then explained that the Planning Department's concern is
that the proposal that was handed directly to the Board dated June 14, 1988,
was different than the proposal that was given to the Department initially
and reviewed under SEPA and by the Planning Commission. There is a DNS
issued on a project that the Leavitt's are not interested in pursuing.
Withdrawing the DNS would clean up the issue of a DNS issued for a project
that is not to be done. The Planning Commission's role was to determine, as
requested by the Board, whether or not the project was consistent with the
land use policy of the County. The Planning Commission did review the
project and developed a list of conditions (mitigative measures) which they
felt would make the project consistent with the comprehensive Plan. The
Board issued the DNS contingent on the conditions of approval (See Minutes).
The differences in the two proposals were outlined in the July 29, 1988
memorandum.
Dale Leavitt stated that she has never agreed to a binding site plan or to
all of the conditions as presented by the Planning Commission. She added
that she submitted the June 14, 1988 proposal to the Planning Department the
Friday afternoon prior to the Monday meeting with the Board. The discussion
continued regarding the DNS that was issued and if it applies to the June 14,
1988 proposal, the County's use of a binding site plan, and the issue that
the County does not have the proper ordinance in place to authorize it to
mitigate this proposal.
The 15 mitigative measures were then reviewed individually as follows:
#1 The Proposal shall be prepared as a binding site plan:
Chairman Brown stated that the binding site plan is necessary
to ensure that these mitigative measures'will be adhered to
even if the Leavitt's sell the property to another party.
David Goldsmith added that the SEPA rules state that an agency
(the County) will specify rules for enforcement of the
procedures. If the Leavitt's disagree with this method of
enforcement, he asked what alternative method they would agree
to on this project? The Prosecuting Attorney indicates that
there is a binding site plan process under the Subdivision
Act.
#2 Drainage: Addressed in the June 16, 1988 proposal with the
same wording as original proposal.
#3 All weather surface: Change crushed rock to gravel.
#4 Lighting: Exact wording from original proposal.
#5 Ingress and Egress: Same wording as original proposal.
#6 Parking: Same Wording as original proposal.
#7 Access on Airport Cutoff Road: Added provision that. access
would be wide enough to allow two way truck traffic. The
access for the original proposal was already approved by the
Public Works Department.
#8 Vegetative Buffer: Dale Leavitt stated that her wording for
this condition is "attractive landscaping will be provided
along Airport Cutoff Road and around the monument sign to
consist of evergreen shrubs and trees of various sizes.
Landscaping and signs adjacent to the Airport Cutoff Road will
be placed as to not reduce or inhibit sight distance for
traffic entering the County road.1I The County's condition
called for a minimum of 15 feet with a minimum of 50% visibil-
ity as viewed from the roadway.
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commissio~ers' Meeting Minutes: Week of August 8, 1988
After discussion of what is meant by a 50% visual
barrier, Dale Leavitt stated that she agreed to a 50 foot
setback and landscaping with trees. She added that she
has a problem with the 50% screening because it is ar-
bitrary.
Page:
5
#9 Landscaping encouraged: Agreed.
#10 Setback of building: Agreed.
#11 Signs: Dale Leavi tt stated that she prefers to have two signs
allowing a maximum of 20 square feet for each business, or a
maximum of two 40 square foot signs. She would like to build
in flexibility to allow ample room for sign space for each
business. If signs are small they are hard to read at 50
miles per hour from the highway. It was agreed that two
signs, 40 square feet each would be allowed on the site.
#12 ,Commercial Use of Adjoining Property: David Goldsmith
explained that this condition does not affect the applicant
but does notify staff in the future that this project does not
set a precedent for more commercial development in the area
based on this project.
#13 Parking: Dale Leavitt said that she made one change in the
portion which states "1 space per 200 square feet for the
portion of the business dedicated to retail or wholesale
sales." The word wholesale was dropped, because, Mrs. Leavi tt
advised, she does not feel that wholesale sales generate the
same kind of parking requirements that retail sales do. David
Goldsmith agreed to this.
#14 Access: This has been addressed, Dale Leavitt reported, with
Public Works and the access will be widened for two way truck
traffic. The Public Works Department has already reviewed the
proposal and agreed to it.
#15 Types of Business allowed on the site: Mrs. Leavitt stated
that she would like the land use designation clarified as
being commercial and has re-written this condition to allow
general commercial activity on the site. David Goldsmith
reported that the original project was reviewed with the type
of business being service activities such as, cabinet shop and
repair shop, etc. Commercial sales activities (retail) could
generate three times the amount of traffic that was indicated
by the initial proposal. Discussion ensued about the redesig-
nation of the property, and the types of uses that could be
allowed on the site under the commercial designation.
After a great deal of discussion of the issues involved including the binding
site plan, the buffering, how the project will be continued in the future,
and the land use designation for this project, Mr. Hayden asked the County
to consider accepting the Leavitt's proposal and issue the building permit
contingent on their complying with their own proposal. After more discussion
of possible alternatives to requiring a binding site plan, a recess was taken
for the parties to confer with their legal counsels.
Steve Olsen reported that he and Mr. Hayden have discussed the proposal that
the County grant the building permit subject to compliance with the proposal
submitted by the applicant. The two areas of conc~rn would be addressed as
follows: ~
Buffer: The building permit in include a condition that
the buffer be of vegetation of a type similar to what
exists there currently (a photograph will be taken of the
existing buffer).
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Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of August 8, 1988
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T e of Busine ses: The building permit would include
a condition th t no more than half of the buildings on
the site be us d for retail purposes.
These conditions would be binding, Mr. Olsen continued, on the permittee, but
not neces.sarilY on sUbse~'uentgrante.es. Mr. Hayden stated that he agrees to
this in principle, but wo Id like to see the permit in its final form before
acceptance. He also sug ested that the wording of the condition about the
type of businesses allo d, be changed to read "half the square footagell
instead of half the buil ings.
The Chairman advised tha the building permit will be written and submitted
to the Prosecuting Attorn y for review and then be sent to Mr. Hayden for his
review before it is fina ly approved.
will
that
Control pro'ects: Jim Pearson reported that he
to the Board regarding the bank protection projects
discussed for the Dosewallips River.
Review' Lieurance Famil
Famil: This project, Jim
Pearson reported, is to epair the access road into the area known as Camp
Harmony and create four 1 vel campsite areas above the tidelands. The Camp
Harmony area has a histo y of slides. The proposed project would dig into
the slide material to m ke a new access road (exempt under the Shoreline
Program) and move the m terial toward the water to create the campsites.
This is a private, non-co ercial, family camping area. Commissioner George
Brown moved to issue and determination of non-significance and lead agency
status. Commissioner D nnison seconded the motion which carried by a
unanimous vote.
* >Ie *
Frank Bisho C wlitz Coun Bud et Director and Re resentative of
Caroon and Black Insur ce Brokers re: Washin ton Counties .Risk Pool: Mr.
Bishop introduced Steve HIland from Caroon and Black, Insurance Brokers, who
are consultants for the insurance pool. Commissioner Dennison introduced
Homer Smith III of Home Smith Insurance, the County's current insurance
broker.
Mr. Holland explained th t the Washington Counties Insurance Pool will only
provide liability insura ce coverage for the County. The local broker will
have to provide property, inland marine, elected officials and employee bonds
and coverage for data rocessing equipment. Caroon and Black are the
insurance brokers provid'ng assistance to the pool in its formative stages
and once the pool is setup, they have a commitment to provide ~xcess
insurance to the pool. hey are not a competitor with local agents, and no
commission will be paid to Caroon and Black from the pool.
The reason the Washington Counties Risk Pool is being formed is to eliminate
the enormous fluctuation 'n costs from the commercial insurance carriers, to
put the Counties in gre ter control of their insurance dollars, and to
provide some insurance c verages to the Counties that have not been avail-
abl.e. The Poo~ will pro ide stability and financial predictability for the
insurance needs of the Co nty.
There will be monthly fi ancial statements that the County can review, the
County will be represente on the Board of Directors, the pool will determine
how claims will be han led, settled or adjudicated, and the Board of
Directors will determine what is covered or excluded from coverage by the
pool. After the pool is established, the Board of Directors will determine
what other counties may 'oin the pool and if any shoulc;l be excluded. The
pool will provide an ele ent of risk management and loss control. General
Adjustment Bureau will act as the claim adjusters and legal counsel will be
provided by approved att rneys or County Prosecuting Attorneys. Actuarial
reports will be done on t e pool annually.
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Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of August 8, 1988
Page:
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The reason for the alternative pool being offered by the Independent Agents
Association, Mr. Holland added, is to keep the local independent agents in
the picture in providing insurance coverage to municipa~ities.
Chairman Brown asked about the difference between the five million dollar
policy versus the one million dollar policy? Mr. Bishop stated there is a
big difference between occurrence and claims made insurance. The Washington
Counties Pool is on an occurrence basis, with coverage of five million
dollars per occurrence and no annual aggregate.
Homer Smith reported that the pool offered by the Independent Agents
Association provides two mi lion dollars of coverage per occurrence with a
two million dollar aggregate for the auto liability, general liability, and
public officials coverage. If the County was involved in this pool and
decided to leave it at some point in the future, the County would take all
its' obligations, plus any refunds, including claims known but currently
still unpaid.
Mr. Bishop reiterated that t e Washington Counties Risk Pool is providing the
general liability, law enf rcement liability, vehicle liability and the
Health Department liability The primary considerations for the Board in
comparing any insurance pool, Mr. Bishop continued, are:
1) The limits of 1 ability being on a claims made versus
occurre.nce basis 0 occurrence wi th an aggregate.
2) The actuarial rep rt, which is critical to the formation of
rates.
3) Financial stateme ts plus who will provide the re-insurance
coverage.
The discussion then turned t risk management and how the Washington Counties
pool will aid the county in isk management. Other aspects of the insurance
pool such as withdrawing fr m the pool were also discussed. Frank Bishop
concluded by noting that on important aspect of the risk pool coverage is
the named insured. This w s written to cover past or present employees,
elected or appointed offici Is, volunteers, while they are .working for the
County whether or not the are compensated, including all commissions,
agencies, boards, districts, authorities, or similar entities which operate
under the County's control.
The meeting was r cessed and reconvened on Thursday morning with
all Board members present, f r the following business.
Homer Smi th III Homer Smith Insurance and Dou. Frank re:
Washin ton Governmental Entities Insurance Pool: Homer ~mith III and Doug
Frank came before the Board 0 discuss the Washington Governmental Entities
Insurance Pool (WGEP). Home Smith explained that insurance terminology used
in the past does not apply to insurarice pool programs. Mr. Frank then
presented a report on the WG P made by an independent actuary. This report
points out that an insuranc pool is meant to be a long term arrangement.
Of the 1,000 members that ar in the WGEP, there has not been a single member
withdraw.
The difference between the W EP and the Washington Counties pool, Mr. Frank
continued is that if someth'ng goes wrong with the WGEP the County can cut
its losses and withdraw from the pool. In the Washington Counties pool, if
something goes wrong, the C untyis locked into staying in the pool for a
specified period of time. T e Washington Counties pool uses a retrospective
experience rating method wh ch means that the County can be billed in the
current year for losses tha occur in that year. Chairman Brown reported
that the governing board of he washington Counties pool will be made up of
a member of the Board of Co nty Commissioners of every county that joins,
which gives the county a con rol of how the pool is operated.
The discussion turned to
administrator of the pool a
the governing board of the WGEP and the
well as the authority that the overall pool
.Vl 14 rAGE !!-2S90
Commissioners' Meeting Minut
Week of August 8, 1988
Page:
8
governing board has over State pool governing board. There are
advantages and disadvantages in both pools, Chairman Brown added, the Board
has to decide which pool would serve the County the best.
Homer Smith III stated that he biggest advantage that he sees for the County
to join the WGEP is that the risk would be spread over a greater area. There
is currently a total of 15 illion dollars, nationwide, in "pooled reserve
funds" that can be paid out in claims in any year. Mr. Frank added that
32.6% of the funds the. Cou ty. pays into the WGEP would be used for the
budgetary fund which is used for administration of the pool, paying claims,
etc., with the rest of the f nding going to the reserve fund. If the County
was to withdraw from the po 1, it would be entitled for a pro-rata portion
of the amount that goes into the reserve furid.
ErwinP. Jones A. Band
Band's Plans For His Gardi er Pro art and Co laints About the Plannin
De>>artment: The following is a verbatim transcription of the meeting between
Mr. Erwin Jones, Attorney, representing Mr. Gary A. Bandy, Planning and
Building Department Director, David Goldsmith and the Board:
Chairman B. G. Brown: We ave an appointment with Mr. Erwin Jones. Mr.
Erwin Jones is the one who s t the meeting up, so I'll leave it up to you to
lead off and say what the pu pose is.
Erwin P. Jones: possibly aware, I represent Mr. Gary
A. Bandy, and I believe, G.W. Bandy, Inc. which is a corporation. The
reason, oh, I'd like to int oduce my companion, this is Jim Hutchinson who
is with the law firm of Me kel, Caine and Donahue, and he's Mr. Bandy's
Seattle counsel, and the rea on he's is, we feel this is a serious situation.
We feel that a, a dynamic ha developed between Mr. Bandy and at least some
agencies of Jefferson Count that's undesirable for both Mr. Bandy and the
County.
I'd like to tell you somethi g about Mr. Bandy before I really get into our
complaints. Mr. Bandy is, is main endeavor is a corporation called G.W.
Bandy, Inc.. Mr. Bandy is emi-retired. He's still the Chairman of the
Board of Directors of that c rporation and he has a corporate president that
actually runs the corporati n. He's a professional manager of G.W. Bandy,
Inc. His name is David Ago tine and Mr. Agostine and the corporation G.W.
Bandy, Inc. are located in urbank California. G.W, Bandy is an aerospace
manufacturing company. It' precisely the type of industry, that I know
Clallam County would like to have. I don't know about Jefferson County. G.
W. Bandy, Inc. supplies air raft hinges of all sizes and all descriptions.
Everything from the big hing s that are on the ailerons of an aircraft to the
Ii ttle hinges that hold th door on the boys room in the aircraft and
aircraft of all sizes from he smallest Cesna or Piper that you can fly up
to a 747. G. W. Bandy, Inc. is probably the largest manufacturer of that
particular product in the wo Id.
Mr. Bandy, I'm talking abou him personally, came to Gardiner in 1978 or
1979, He came here with is whole family. His two, he has two older
children who are, who were t that time emancipated. He has two children
named Jennifer and Garrett w 0 attended high school and graduated from, from
Sequim High School, and I think that his younger children, Melanie and
Jerrad, plan to do the same. Mr. Bandy is a common man. He came from common
beginnings. He treats his ids like anybody else does. He sends them to
public schools and he makes hem work.
Mr. Bandy loves the Olympic eninsula. I've heard him remark, "Gees this is
beautiful country." And, I think probably because of that love of the
Olympic peninsula and Clall and Jefferson Counties, he's purchased about
300 acres in the Gardiner ar a at this point. He may purchase more, I don't
know. And, in maintaining t at acreage, Mr. Bandy ah, has invested a massive
amount of money. Amounts of oney which have benefited Clallam and Jefferson
County in the form of wages. He presently employs 15 people, specifically
improving his property in an around Gardiner, washington.
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Alot of people have asked, including Mr. Goldsmith, have asked what Mr.
Bandy's intentions are in Gardiner. He has stated to me a number of times
that his intentions are in harmony with the rural environment of Gardiner
Washington. Mr. Bandy has an indian heritage and he loves to create things,
physical things, not only for his own enjoyment, but for the enjoyment and
I quote 1I0f children of all agesll. And that, in fact, has happened.
There's, if you ever spent any time around Mr. Bandy's property, or around
his house, you see a constant stream of cars going by to look at the
wonderful art creations, he calls them trolls, that he has put there.
Jefferson County or Port Townsend, has some wonderful attractions too. For
instance this Courthouse. I would wager you, however, and I'm not a betting
man, but I would wager you that probably 10 people go to Gardiner just to see
Mr. Bandy's creations, for every person that comes to Port Angeles, just to
see this Courthouse. Magnificent as it is. And that's something, that Mr.
Bandy could brag about. He doesn't.
He has other kinds of creations, other than just the carvings. They take the
form of buildings, still others, one that happens to be in contention right
now, just a quiet place for his friends and guests to stay the night. He has
done all of this in the face of constant demands to know what he's doing.
I suggest to the Commissioners that it makes no difference what Mr. Bandy is
doing as long as he doesn't break the law. And, that's a bone of contention
between Mr. Bandy and the Building Department. He has made his immediate
intentions known, I believe to Ms. Nathanson.
I'm not sure whether you gentlemen are familiar with the term lIespalier",
are you? Mr. Bandy has for a number of years been educating himself in a
agricultural technology known as espalier, espalier of fruit trees. And,
what that boils down to is growing fruit, I mean apples, pears, peaches, in
the same manner that grapes are grown. It amounts to training fruit trees
along wires. It is a very high density of trees, I believe like, ah, well
thousands of trees per acre. So, it's quite an expensive thing to get into.
Mr. Bandy has property in New Zealand and he has, he has associates in New
Zealand who are pioneers in this particular endeavor, and that's what he
intends to do. He's got some thirty acres that he's started to put the
espalier system into. I don't know how far he intends to expand that. Troll
Haven is the name he's given his farm, and it's because of the carvings. He
intends, I believe, to have visitors by invitation. I don't believe, and I
frankly don't know, but I don't believe he intends any destination resorts
for the public or any Knotts Berry Farm type of situations. His intent as he
has expressed it to me, is that he intends to have people there by invita-
tion, and that dovetails with his promotion of a new idea of growing fruit.
That, in effect, is what Mr. Bandy is doing in Gardiner at this time.
I've asked the Commissioners for this meeting because we feel that we have
a dedicated opponent in Jefferson County, to Mr, Bandy's activities, and we
wish to clear the air in that regard. Generally we expect governmental
agencies, when presented with a project, to say "How can I help you". That's
generally what we expect. We do not expect governmental agencies to start
with this is how we're going to stop you. Based on a conversation I had with
Commissioner B. G. Brown just a couple of days ago, I take the county's
attitude through this Board, assuming that Mr. Brown reflects the attitude
of the Board, to be we want to be fair, we want to be straight forward and
we want to be progressive. I gathered that, at least between the lines, with
my conversation with Mr. Brown.
I had a similar conversation with C-ommissioner George Brown, although we
didn't get into that quite as much and I also take that to be Commissioner
George Brown's attitude. I haven't talked with Commissioner Dennison. I'm
confident that the attitude of this Board is positive toward development in
this County that is consistent with the County's character now. I suppose
you could say that Mr. Bandy's carvings or his unusual architecture is
different, I'd don't think you can say that it's deleterious or that it hurts
anything or that it changes the essential character of the area. It's
something people enjoy. I feel that the attitude that I've described, that
I believe the Commissioners have is not reflected by two agencies of the
County. The first is the Sheriff's Office and the second, and I realize, or
I believe that this Board has no control or no function with the Sheriff's
Office. The second agency that we have a difficulty with is the Building
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Department or the Building and Subdivision Department. And I, that difficul-
ty is what I really want to address now. And, in that endeavor I would like
the Board's permission to ask Mr. Goldsmith a couple of questions, relating
to his activities with reference to Mr. Bandy or G.W. Bandy. Is that
permissible?
Chairman Brown: Would you say that that would be proper, John?
Prosecuting Attornev John RaYMond: Sure, I have no problem with it.
Erwin Jones: Okay, ah.
David Goldsmith: I'll step up if I can. Now, I assume that these questions
are going to be in response to my official actions as a County employee and
perhaps not some of the other issues related to, if that the case then I'd
rather go into closed session. I don't know the nature of your questions,
Erwin Jones: Well, they're factual questions. I have no objection to going
into a closed session, I don't care.
David Goldsmith: If they're factual questions I have no objection either.
Let's keep up with it, as long as they stay factual.
Erwin Jones: If you at any point in time want to close the session, that's
fine with me if its fine with the Commissioners. Mr. Goldsmith, ah, do you
acknowledge that Mr. Ajax went into a barn on Mr. Bandy's property and took
photos inside?
David Goldsmith: I do.
Erwin Jones: Is that by your direction?
David Goldsmith: No, but it was not, on the other hand it was not prohibited
by me either, as his supervisor.
Erwin Jones: okay. Mr. Ajax made a statement in the paper some months ago
about a County Building Official has to have permission to go on property to
inspect it or to look at it just like anybody else.
David Goldsmi th:
2/24/88.
Yes, Mr. Ajax was invited on that piece of property on
Erwin Jones: Mr. Ajax was on that property for the purpose of inspecting a
building, is that correct?-
David Goldsmith: That's correct.
Erwin Jones: And it was not the barn, is that correct?
David Goldsmith: It was part of the barn complex. It was the building to
the uphill side of the barn.
Erwin Jones: Okay. Are. you aware that that building is posted?
David Goldsmith: The building, which one?
Erwin Jones: The barn.
David Goldsmith: Was posted?
Erwin Jones: Yes,
David Goldsmith: Yes, with a correction notice.
Erwin Jones: Are you aware that it was posted with a No Trespass sign?
David Goldsmith: No, neither was Mr. Ajax.
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Erwin Jones: Okay, ah, do you acknowledge that you made statements to the
paper recently, within the last week?
David Goldsmith: I've been notified by the paper and asked to make comments.
Erwin Jones: Did you call the paper?
David Goldsmith: No, I did not.
Erwin Jones: Did you make the statement attributed to you, ahm, concerning
the troll with the one fingered salute?
David Goldsmith: Yes I did.
Erwin Jones: Have you seen that troll?
David-Goldsmith: Yes I have.
Erwin Jones: Did it have a one fingered salute?
David Goldsmith: The troll that I saw, which was in transport at the time,
appeared to have, and that's what I told the paper.
Erwin Jones: Did you make statements to the paper concerning the Bandy,
King, Madoo restraining order?
David Goldsmith: No.
Erwin Jones: Did you use obscene language when talking to Bandy workmen?
David Goldsmith: I used one obscene word when talking to the Bandy workmen,
yes, and I used that word one time.
Erwin Jones: Okay, that's all I want to ask Mr. ..,
David Goldsmith:
that be proper?
May I ask you a couple of questions, Counsellor? Would
Erwin Jones: I'm not going to tell you anything about Mr. Bandy's business
if that's what you're going to ask me.
David Goldsmith: I'm not asking you abou-t Mr. Bandy's business, I'm asking
you concerning the correspondence that we've had over the last three or four
months concerning the application of the codes to Mr. Bandy's property
through you, which you've asked for correspondence to. Do you have any
problem with that?
Erwin Jones: It's Mr. Bandy" s posi tionthat he has broken no law.
David Goldsmith: I just want to ask you the question Counsellor. Did you
not receive a, you and I had a conversation on 2/24/88 concerning Mr. Ajax's
inspection of the barn?
Erwin Jones: I'm sorry, I don't remember.
David Goldsmith: Did you not receive a, did you not address a letter to me
dated May 4, 1988 concerning that conversation of
Erwin Jones: Does that letter concern Mr. Bandy?
David Goldsmith: Yes it does.
Erwin Jones: I'm not going to answer that question, that's between me and
you and not the County Commissioners. \,
David Goldsmith: Well, I thi_nk what we're trying to establish here,
Counsellor, is that my department, and through me, have attempted in many,
many ways to assist you and Mr. Bandy, you as his Counsel, to comply with the
laws of Jefferson County and what we've received instead is a refusal, I
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guess to do so. You said that when presented with a project how can we help.
And, indeed, that is Jefferson County's position. The problem is that we
haven't been presented with any project, yet. We've been bringing projects
to, at least, Mr. Bandy's presence and your presence, as far as that goes,
that where the application of laws, local laws, are in question. And, I have
correspondence from you, indicating that indeed, what, not responding to
issues that I've raised concerning the applicability of building codes. Now,
I don't know what you would ask us to do if Mr. Bandy would bring a project
to us we would certainly help him. And that was the tenure of my visit to
Mr. Bandy's site on July 29, at which tiDieI was there on the RV issue,
provided a note to Mr. Bandy and to his workmen, indicating that a potential
RV park, there was a potential for an RV park here and that you need to
comply with certain laws. I was assured by Robert L. Bent, who is one of Mr.
Bandy's foremen, that he would do so and provide that to Mr. Bandy. The
following day, in fact the same time, I received, or have a copy of a flyer
that was presented in the Brinnon, or in the Gardiner community, in the
community's store, that indicates there was indeed an RV park being provided
for overnight, ah, overnight campers welcome. It has Mr. Bandy's telephone
number.
On August first I went back out to that property, found, indeed, the sign
posted saying that overnight campers are welcome, and at that time posted a
stop work order. At that time I also used the foul language, the one word
foul language, to one of the workmen, who inquired about the nature of the
stop work order. I guess from my position, Counselor, that we have attempted
to, up front, assist Mr. Bandy in complying with the laws, so we didn't get
into this after the fact kind of situation. I don't know what you would have
us do, and maybe you can explain for the Board what we should do to insure
that we do have equal treatment of the laws and do. it in an efficient and
equitable manner. Certainly the tenure of the department has been and it's
well documented, to do that. To do it up front.
Erwin Jones: I would like to complete my presentation to the Board and then
I'll argue with Mr. Goldsmith.
Mr. Bandy has broken no law. He cleaned up a junk lot that was a, it was
full of debris. He's cleaned it up. He has not subdivided that lot and the
lot is not for sale or rent. Or portions of it are not for sale or rent.
It is not necessary to subdivide a lot under those circumstance. I question
whether, under that circumstance, the stop work was legal. And I seriously
question whether or not Mr. Ajax's entrance into a barn, his surreptitious
entrance into a barn, by my clients side of the story, was legal. These are
small issues. Now, there's nothing that is really earth shattering there,
the point is, Mr. Bandy, and I did this myself, I think I did it writing,
invi ted Mr. Goldsmith and Ms. Nathanson to tour the property so that he could
personally tell them exactly what he was doing. They haven't done that.
Every time Mr. Goldsmith or one of his people, not every time, but on two
occasions, Mr. Goldsmith or one of his people, have chosen to approach Mr.
Bandy's property with a simple stop work.order. No questions to Mr. Bandy,
just the stop work order.
David Goldsmith: Counsellor will you give us those occasions please?
Erwin Jones: Yes, there was one occasion, when they were clearing some
debris around a fence.
David Goldsmith: Was that down on the, at the lagoon?
concerning shorelines?
Was that issue
Erwin Jones:
, l
No, there was no new structure bu~lt.
David Goldsmith: That wasn't a structure question. Is this, the only stop
work order that has been placed on Mr. Bandy's property, to my knowledge, is
the stop work order that I personally placed there.
Erwin Jones: Okay.
David Goldsmi th: Now, I don't understand this fence issue of cleaning around
the fence. There was question that was brought to our attention, that there
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was a potential for filling in the shoreline, which turned out that they were
creating a pathway to the shoreline. Resulted in them stopping action until'
they received the proper clearances to do so. If that's the incidence that
you're talking about?
Erwin Jones: I don't have the, I don't have the, there's correspondence.
David Goldsmith: Okay, before we..
Erwin Jones: There is correspondence, ah.
David Goldsmith: Then I would suggest you produce some dates and correspon-
dence, Counsellor, because I think you're trying to create something here,
and I'm certainly going to be the recipient of the response of what you're
trying to create, that I think we need to have some facts backing that up.
Erwin Jones: I don't have them with me.
David Goldsmith: Okay, then I suggest that you don't do that.
.Erwin Jones: If you gentlemen are interested I can send them to you. What
happened. . .
Commissioner Dennison: I'm interested in documented cases.
particularly interested in speculation.
I'm not
Erwin Jones: Well, I'm telling you that I have the..
Commissioner Dennison: Then let's see them.
Erwin Jones: I don't have them with me.
David Goldsmith: You say there's two, that's one, what's the second one?
Erwin Jones: okay, yeah, the one that we're talking about..
David Goldsmith: On the RV park. The one that I went out on the 29th?
Erwin Jones: Yes.
David Goldsmith: Okay.
Erwin Jones: At any rate it appears to us that the Building Department has
chosen to interject themselves into difficulties between Mr. Bandy, Mr. King
and Mr. Madoo. They've opviously chosen a side. And the side, okay that
incident, was Mr. Kilmer that placed the first stop work order.
David Goldsmith: And that was for working within the road right-of-way.
subsequently there was a, a license sent to your office concerning the work
within the road right-of-way which you scratched out certain portions of that
license and refused .to comply with the County's licensing requirements.
Erwin Jones: I sent you a letter and said that Mr. Bandy didn't wish to..
David Goldsmith: We should have Public Works down here for that so that,
that incident. Now, I think it was, as I understand it, and this is second
hand, hearsay is that Mr. Kilmer went out to the property along the Gardiner
Beach Road and found work being performed in the County road right-of-way and
then a license was sent to you and that license hasn't been completed or ..
Erwin Jones: Here's the interview with Mr. Scott Kilmer.
David Goldsmith: So that's how the Public Works Department, now there's, so
that. .
Erwin Jones: At any rate I have observed Mr. Goldsmith to be extremely, or
appears to me to be extremely responsive to complaints by Mr. King. And Mr.
King complains about alot of things, I believe. From, and I, you know I, I
find myself asking whether Mr. King has some kind of a hold. I'm sure that's
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not the case, I'm sure that's. its what we're dealing with here is a simple
expression of Mr. Goldsmith's oWn philosophical viewpoints.
David Goldsmith: Can I correct the Counsellor at this point?
Erwin Jones: No, please allow me to finish.
David Goldsmith: Mr. Brown
Chairman B.G. Brown: Wait a minute. I guess that we'll allow, and I think
Erwin, I'd appreciate it to, if in .fact that you just go ahead and make a
presentation and back it up with whatever facts you have and if you don't
have factual information then we'll just take them as hearsay too. You have
to understand Erwin that we get into this thing, sometimes not by taking one
persons side or the other. We get complaints, it's necessary to go out there
and investigate it and that ends up in some instances, causes some of these
confrontations. And, so I guess that if we need for you to, or if you feel
you need to in the best interest of your client, to explain to us his side
on those issues, why I'd like for you to do that. But, has far as whether
our staff has taken one persons side or not, why I think that that is
something that is all right for you to point out but we just need to go on
and get through the presentation.
Erwin Jones: We feel, and Mr. Goldsmith is free to, I apologize for saying
"No". Mr. Goldsmith is free to disagree with this, but we feel that Mr.
Goldsmith's approach to Mr. Bandy, his projects, and his people has been rude
and unprofessional and he has violated rights of Mr. Goldsmith. He has asked
to apologize to the workmen that he swore at and he refused. Mr. Bandy and
G. W. Bandy want to get along with the county. We want to request the
ini tiation of policies designed to encourage communication. Designed to
avoid confrontation such as we have had here and designed to guide develop-
ment and not inhibit it. We want the County to allow us to interface with
a sympathetic ear and we don't feel one. That's simple what it is. We're
. not asking the County to do anything to Mr. Goldsmi th. We just want a, we
in effect want to establish a friendly open relationship. We feel that Mr.
Goldsmi th and his staff have interjected themselves into a situation in
Gardiner that's, that has tended to inflame that situation rather than make
it go away. We want it to go away, and that's the guts of our complaint.
As far as producing, as far as this being some kind of a trial or something
like that, that's not what its intended to be. It's simply intended to be
an attempt to alert the County that we feel there is a problem there and try
to, try to solve that problem through some no confrontational means.
Chairman B. G. Brown: Okay, and I guess that, that I feel that that is
probably our goal also. But, I do think that, you know, it's real hard to
assess what was said in a confrontation, in some, that is a time when people
have frustrations. So, I think that if we, in fact, can get on positive side
and say I would like Erwin for you to point out some things that you feel
that the County needs to do other than tell Mr. Goldsmith to clean up his
act, that we can do in a positive manner to help Mr, Bandy with his project
or to help him. You have to understand that .we do have not everyone in the
community out there agrees with what he's doing and that is not unusual.
Nor do they need to, because it's his property and so long, as you point out,
that he breaks no laws, then in fact, their concerns are just that. But,
that, in fact then, does pull the County into it in some of these situations
just like when we have some situations with this thing with Kilm~r. That a
neighbor calls and says the guy is cutting trees on the County right-of-way
and in fact that wasn't the case, according to this letter. So, whether the
County wants to get into those situations or not, we're drawn in. It's how
well we're able to handle it in a professional manner. I think that is what
we are striving for and so if you have anything that you would like to
request of us as far as anything positive that we can be doing in that area
I appreciate that.
Erwin Jones: Well, first of all let's start with Mr. Goldsmith. In a
posi tive manner I'd like to here in a public meeting, again invite Mr.
Goldsmith to come out, not to tell Mr. Bandy he doing something wrong, but
to have Mr. Bandy show him what he is doing and what his intentions are.
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David Goldsmith: If I may add, or step into this, on Monday when I talked
with Mr. Bandy, after placing the stop work order. At that time Gary had
indicated that he would invite us out, prior to that I had not received
anything from Mr. Bandy or from Mr. Jones indicating that he wanted to sit
down and talk. And I told Gary at that time that that would be fine and we
would set up a meeting in the next week or so and do that and hopefully maybe
a couple of the Board members could come out and get a feel for the kinds of
activities that is going on there. In the case of my refusal to retract my
words, that's not quite exactly how that worked out. I was on the phone with
Mr. Madoo and Mr, Madoo had indicated that he had a problem with my language
and I told him that if that offended his workers I'd be happy to talk to
them. But, and Mr. Madoo said well if you'll come out within the next hour
we'll drop it and at that time there was other things to be completed here
in the Courthouse and I'd just spent an hour .or so out in Gardiner, so I
didn't feel it was appropriate for me to turn right back around ~nd drive out
there. Although, I did indicate to Mr. Madoo that I would speak to them on
the phone if that would help them recov~r from the mornings incident.
But, I do believe, Mr. Jones, that a meeting with Mr. Bandy would be very
helpful in clearing the situation. I thought that my note on Friday prior
to the sign going up would have at least shown Mr. Bandy that we were
attempting.to, when we see something like that up front, trying to solve it
before it becomes an issue. Unfortunately that didn't work out and I,
similarly with my correspondence to you concerning the masonry structure,
the chimney fireplace in the barn, which we still believe needs to be solved.
That was an up front kind of situation and I'd still like to, we haven't
taken any action yet pending your response. I did send you a copy .of
building permit application with a $25 fee for having that inspected to
insure that that meets the fire code. Simple kinds of things that, that we
would hope that we would do to assist Mr. Bandy to make sure he's got safe
structures and to assist whoever in the future may be visiting or utilizing
those facilities.
Erwin Jones: Okay the second complaint, these statements to the newspapers.
The statement about the one fingered salute simply wasn't true and it held
Mr, Bandy up to a certain amount of embarrassment. And, ah.,
Commissioner Dennison: What does that mean anyway?
Erwin Jones: A one fingered salute I think most people understand to mean
raising the middle finger and its an obscene gesture. Mr. Bandy's carvings
don't have anyone fingered salutes.
Chairman B.G. Brown: And you said that that one was in transit, it wasn't
one that was set into place, it was what on the back end of a truck or what?
David Goldsmith: Yeah, there's a concrete pad near the entrance to the
alleged RV park that they were, this troll was going to be placed on, and
when I was out on the site with the stop work order the troll was in transit
on the back of this A frame kind of truck~like affair. And , it appeared that
was what it looked like, that was what was going on. I agree with Mr. Jones
that that troll could be interpreted probably more than one different, more
than one way, My comment was one of jest and n.ot one of fact to the paper
and I retract that, like that's all I can say.
Chairman B.G. Brown: Okay.
Erwin Jones: I would like to see some kind of a policy with the Building
Department, and I think, I'm not in that business so I feel ali ttle
uncomfortable telling, telling the Coullfty what I'd like to see as far as
those kinds of policies, but I would li~e to see some kind of a procedure,
and I realize that Mr. Goldsmith has tried to do that with reference to this
fireplace issue, but rid like to see some kind of an issue where there's
communication before confrontation. At some point in time on some issues you
are going to have confrontation, you can't avoid it, but I...
Commissioner Dennison: David, did you feel like you had made an attempt to
make communication, I mean it sounds like to me you did, but I'm not sure
whether, and what Mr. Jones. Are you ~aying Mr. Jones, that there was no
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attempt at communication or are you sayi~g that there wasn't adequate attempt
at communication, or what, I don't understand what you're saying. Because
I don't think Mr. ...
Erwin Jones: My clients, I believe, and here again you've got to understand
that this is hearsay, I don't have them here with me, but my clients
indicated that their first contact with :Mr. Goldsmith was on the site and I
think ... .
Commissioner Dennison: Well, how could it have been differently??
I
Erwin Jones: Telephone call.
Commissioner Dennison: I mean, if no building permit were issued, if there
was nothing that, it sounds like to me that the only reason that our Building
Department was out there was a result of a complaint or someone informing our
Building Department that there was something going on, I don't understand
what, what could have taken place differently under the circumstances.
David Goldsmith: I can explain our policy if, for Mr. Jones. If we find a
structure or an activity that may require a permit from the County or if we
receive a complaint that sounds to be valid, some of those we have to make
judgement calls on, but assuming we've gqt something with validity, or if the
inspector, or myself, or one of my staft is going to another job and finds
something that appears to be something that would not be consistent with the
permit requirements -then we stop and make contact and then post what we call
a Correction Notice. And this says, in this case "a building permit may be
required for this project. Please con~act this office within seven days.
Failure to do so could result in a st:op work order being posted on the
structure." This is in reference to the agricultural building. Initially,
as an agricultural building it was fine, and then it got a concrete floor,
plumbing and a chimney. So it started appearing to be coming into a
different kind of structure and the note .written by the inspector at the time
said please provide a written statement explaining the use of the structure
and that was on 2/24/88~ So, that's the kind of thing we do. Then, if we
don't receive any kind, of response to that or if the, then we need to go back
out and post stop work. And that's not one that we go out of our way to do,
it's if we're in the area, so it could be more than seven days. Generally
where we find folks that start a project without a permit, unaware of the
permit requirements and then come in and get the permit or may have chosen
not to get a permit initially and ended up having to get a permit as a
result.
Commissioner Dennison: That first notice was posted?
David Goldsmith: That was posted on the agricultural building.
Commissioner Dennison: Did you get a response in seven days? Is that when
the affidavit came in?
David Goldsmith: I received on May 4, well actually, I guess it was seven
days, on May 4th I received a letter: from Mr. Jones that accuses the
Department of doing a number of things and then said, it basically said that
we were not allowed on Mr. Bandy's property. That if we wanted to go on his
property to call him first. I wrote back on May 11th and indicated that that
structure wasn't, (Mr. Jones: What's tne date of the letter? David: Your
letter to me was May 4, 1988) it did respond to the issue of the building.
Then on May 11th I re-wrote to Mr. Jones explaining the nature of our request
and asked him that if indeed this wCilS an agricultural building, that
certainly it appeared to be able to be used for other kinds of activities,
that a si pIe statement by Mr. Bandy to that effect would be necessary to
complete he file. Otherwise we'd have to look at it as a different kind of
structure And then that affidavit was March, this doesn't make sense, March
14 we rec ived the affidavit from Mr. Bandy and then the following day, or
March 18th we sent a letter off to Mr. Jones indicating that it's a
agricultu al building and that everything's fine and that if at any future
date they want to use it for hotel, or retail or wholesale purposes then a
change of use permit would be required. And then, I also following up on
that, we have an issue concerning. both the plumbing and the masonry chimney
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inside the structure, both of which normally would be included within normal
inspection. Al though if somebody puts up a masonry chimney there's a chimney
inspection that goes on that, so if you were putting a chimney on some
structure you're required to get a permit. What we check for is to make sure
it has proper clearance for the combust~ble surfaces and proper flue(?) and
those types of things.
Commissioner Dennison: Let me ask you real quick, do you understand the need
for that kind of thing?
Erwin Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Dennison: Is there any par~icular reason why your client didn't
feel like that was appropriate?
Erwin Jones: There was plumbing in the building prior to, understand this
building was built in 1902.
Commissioner Dennison: What about the chimney?
Erwin Jones:
building also.
chimney, .
There was a fireplace, a wood stove of some type, in the
Both of those were things that already existed. The masonry
Commissioner De ison: You're talking about a masonry chimney, that sounds
different. I mea you've got to admit that if you were a reasonable Building
Inspector'and you saw that going on you'd have to have some questions right?
Doesn't that mak sense? Doesn't that ~akea certain amount of sense?
Erwin Jones: 11, I guess my point, Mr. Dennison, is if you have the
question, and did, I'm sure that if Mr. Goldsmith would review his
correspondence c oselyenough he would find, I think in that same letter,
that May 4th let er objecting, part of that May 4th letter was objecting to
Mr. Ajax going 0 the property.with his camera without permission. In that
same letter, I th nk I invited him, in writing, to please contact us and we'd
give him a cooks tour.
David Goldsmith: Quoting from the May 4th letter "in the .future if you or
other agents of the County wish to view Mr. Bandy's property for any
legitimate purpo e please contact him or myself and I am sure arrangements
will be made. If permission is not granted, you certainly have avenues other
than a surreptitious trespass."
Commissioner Den ison: I guess I just, I have difficulty in understanding
why we're making uch an incredibly big deal out of this? Do, it's hard for
me to understand ow, with this progression of events and correspondence and
what have you, tht a reasonable person ~ould not believe that maybe there's
something going n here.
Erwin Jones: Mr. Dennison do you have a problem, or would you have a problem
if a policeman c me into your house, whether or not you were doing anything
illegally, came Onto your house and searched it? Would you have a problem
with that? You're got to say you woulq have a problem with that, because
it's simply not onstitutional. It's an illegal search.
Commissioner Den ison: Yeah, I would have a problem with that.
Erwin Jones: And, that's what Mr. Ajax'~ action with the camera was, was an
illegal search, nd all it required for him to go in there and take those
pictures legally, is a simple request from Mr. Bandy. He didn't make that
request, he went across the street and out... ~
Commissioner Den ison: Okay, we did make a number of requests asking for
information abou the things that were in question. Is that not correct?
Erwin Jones: No of Mr. Bandy you didn', t .
Commissioner Dennison: Well, I, I mean, who is Mr. Bandy, where is Mr,
Bandy? I see alot of correspondence bet~eenMr. Goldsmith and Mr. Jones, but
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I'm not, I don't understand how one communicates with Mr. Bandy here. I mean
what's going on, why is this such a big deal?
Erwin Jones: Okay, nothing's going on and it's not a big deal. And, I would
extend the same invitation that I extended to Mr. Goldsmith to you, if you
wish to go out and find out what Mr. Bandy's doing, that's fine. I would
extend it to all you gentlemen.
Commissioner Dennison: okay, great.
Chairman B.G. Brown: The thing about it is, the tone of your letter here
Erwin sounded to me like that if we had ,any legitimate reason to want to gQ
on the property, that we would be, we ould be welcome, or that we would or
would not get permission to come onto the property. I guess I, that seems
a little different that an invitation to come look what's happening.
Erwin Jones: Well, when I came in he e today, I expressed to you that my,
my full intention, and I'm sorry that i 's gone into a contest between myself
and Mr. Goldsmith, I didn't intend th t. My full intention is to ease the
tension that exists, and I'm now conv need by Mr. Dennison's comments that
that tension does exist. We want to ease that tension. And, I'm sincere
when I invite you to Mr. Bandy's property.
Commissioner Dennison: So are we.
Erwin Jones: We want to ease that nsion~ We don't want to talk about
who's right or who's wrong. We can d that in a different forum. We want
to ease the tension between Jefferson County and Mr. Bandy.
Chairman B.G. Brown:
we need to get a plan as a.positive
you, Erwin, is what could be do?
I'm saying, is that I thing that
What, and that's why I asked
David Goldsmith: And, I agree with t t..
Commissioner Dennison: How about
Cl.y afternoon?
Erwin Jones: Let me do this, oh, Mr.
do this. Let me go back to Mr. Band
written invitation on a date when Mr.
operation and show you everything you
nothing sinister going on there.
andy's in Burbank right now. Let me
and make arrangements to send you a
Bandy can take you through his whole
ant to see. There's nothing, there's
Commissioner Dennison: I don't think nybody's ever indicated that there's
anything sinister or different or eve weird about it. I think basically
what we're here for is to make sure t at our local laws are adhered to and
that simply it. That's all we care about, that's all I care about.
Erwin Jones: We're not unsympathetic i th that. I know that you're trying,
or you have made some remarks that i dicate that maybe you do think we're
unsympathetic with that, but we're not.
you probably misunderstood me then.
Commissioner Dennison: Well,
David Goldsmith: So then, we can
of-way the chimney and the RV park
so that we can move on?
that these issues with the right-
worked out here in the near future
Erwin Jones: Well, I hope so.
David Goldsmith: You know the specifics that I see that Jefferson County
has some interest in what Mr. Bandy's oing is that, three areas of conten~
tion here that we believe need to be resolved.
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Erwin Jones: Mr. Bandy does not wish to go through the hassle, and if he,
if he gave the idea he was putting a commercial RV park in there, he did so
in ignorance. He does not want to go through the hassle of putting a
commercial RV park there. That doesn t mean he doesn't want to be able to
use his property. It doesn't mean he 40e~m' t want to be able to have his
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family and friends park there for purposes of some place to stay when his
house isn't big enough. He has no intention of charging any fees or selling
any part of that lot and that's simply not a subdivision. But, you and I and
Mr. Raymond can work that out,
George Brown: Are you aware...
Commissioner Dennison: What does that look like to you? (David Goldsmith
holding up a copy of a flyer for the RV Park) What would you, if you were
just somebody driving along, what wouldiyou...
i
Erwin Jones: I grant you that's certainly what it looks like.
Commissioner Dennison:
drove up and saw that?
Well, now what would David Goldsmith think if he
Erwin Jones: Okay, okay, if that was ever his intention, it's not now. If
you want, want affidavits to that effect, or whatever, I happen to be..
Commissioner Dennison: All I'm saying Erwin is, if you were the Building
Inspector and you drove along and saw ithat sign, what would you probably
think? I mean what would it be reasonable to think, if you drove up and saw
that sign? So you get an idea of why Mr. Goldsmith takes the action that he
does. I mean, what, there's nothing unreasonable about what he did is there?
Erwin Jones: I thinks it's unreasonable to go down and swear at his workmen.
David Goldsmith: I
have to be in, Mr.
I agreed with that.
reasonable, both on
think that in the circumstances, that part, well you'd
Jones. My use of that language is not professional and
The actions I took however, concerning the RV park are
the 29th and again on the 1st.
Chairman B. G. Brown: And I think that that, the language situation is a
concern of ours. That's not good and we will have to deal with that with our
employee, and we can do that. But, I think that we still need to talk about
what, what other facts in the situation that need to be brought to light in
order for us to understand what Mr. Bandy'S doing here, because I think that
Larry's point that a reasonable person looking at this would think that it's
an overnight RV camp. I, so, if that's not a reasonable assumption then we
need to know why that it's unreasonable..
Commissioner Dennison: And, if you warit to give us an affidavit, I think
that's great. That puts my mind right ~t ease.
Erwin Jones: Can I have a copy of that. I've never seen that before David.
David Goldsmith: Surely.
Chairman B.G. Brown: This is what was put up the day that the foul language
occurred. This sign, similar to this with a fish on it and this is a flyer
that was pass~d out.
David Goldsmith: A sign real similar to that.
Erwin Jones: Where did the flyer come from?
David Goldsmith: The flyer came from the store. The Gardiner Store.
Commissioner George Brown: Actually, if you want to look at it, stop at Fat
Smitty's on your way back and you'll see an identical sign there.
David Goldsmith: Yeah, and that was prior to the sign being erected on the
property.
Commissioner Dennison: So, in other words, we have flyers in places of
business along the highway and we have a sign, that's similar to this, on the
premises ant;! you're telling me without an affidavit, that there was no
intention to have an RV park there. And, that it's not reasonable for Mr.
Goldsmith to think that there was. Is that what you're saying?
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Erwin Jones: No, I ..
Commissioner Georae Brown: I don't think we have any problem with Gary doing
what he wants to with his property, if there's a permit needed I'm sure that
he1s willing to do it. It's my impression that he wasn't aware of it, you
know.
Erwin Jones: Well, this is a surprise to me. I haven't seen this before.
Commissioner Georae Brown: Well, if YOll stop at Fat Smitty's you'll notice
one. When you go back, if you stop at Fat Smitty's out there at Discovery
Bay you'll see one right at the end of his counter on your way out. I think
he's got Pepsi Cola and what not. It's ~ight on that, and he probably isn't
aware that he needed a permit.
Chairman B,G. Brown: Whether that Mr. Bandy is a victim of what his
employees have, but the thing about it was is that it appears at least, when
the Planning Director was out that like on a Friday and said, you know, it
looks to me like you're building an RV park here and if you are then it needs
to go through the permitting process. And, them saying no, this isn't an RV
park and whatever, don't bother us, leave us alone, and then Monday morning
this sign appears. Do we have a picture of the sign?
David Goldsmith: Yes. (He held up a picture).
Chairman B. G. Brown: This sign appears on the very piece of property that
the conversation took place on Friday apout an RV park, saying practically
the same thing as the, as the ah, so that almost is like thumbing your nose
at someone about their authority_ So, that in itself, I think has a tendency
to agitate the whole situation Erwin. And that's the thing we have to stop
and that's the thing that if we can get whatever kind of line of communica-
tions we need with Mr. Bandy or his employees, and I guess that maybe there
is a situation where that a, Mr. Bandy is not fully aware, always, of
everything that his employees do, because of the fact that he is out of town
or not around and they do things on his behalf that he mayor may not be
aware of, and sometimes that causes us problems, as we know, and also the
conflict in the community there with one or two of the neighbors, or whatever
number that be, has a tendency to aggravate the problems so far as us getting
number of complaints and so forth, which we are, it's ne~essary for us to
respond in some way usually to those. And, also the fact that as you go by
there and take a look at that situation you could come to a conclusion that
that barn is an awful nice building to be used as an agricultural building.
Not to say that you can't make an agricultural building like a downtown hotel
if you want to and still use it for agriculture purposes. It's just that
it's different than what most people associate as utilization of agriculture
buildings as a barn. . .
Erwin Jones: I grant that, it's certainly different.
Commissioner Dennison: I think it's important also to remember that the
reason that we have to have certain permits for -like fireplaces, is because
we're responsible for fire safety and those kinds of things that are required
under the building code and I mean, you know, I can only assume, we didn't
pass those laws the State passed those laws we can only assume that they
weren't arbitrary when they passed those laws.
Erwin Jones: I think we can work that out. The main reason I asked for this
meeting is simply because I think that .its' that, well I guess, I guess it
was excited, or it was the request was inspired basically by the fact that
somebody went public. They went to the newspaper and ..
Chairman B. G. Brown: Okay you have to understand that, how those things
happen. Is the newspaper was here when :the conversation came up about this
whole situation.
Commissioner Dennison: There's the newSpaper back there so you can ask him
whether, who went to who.
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Chairman B.G. Brown: So, it's not that Mr. Goldsmith ran up to Gardiner,
looked at the situation and run back and called the press. That seemed like
that that's the impression you had.
\
Erwin Jones: That was the impression I had,
Chairman B. G. Brown: And, when you said that I have no, I have no reason
no way to rebut it.. What I'm hearing today is that that wasn't the situa-
tion, Er~in and that does change it a little bit because I thought that that
was not proper either. But, we, maybe that's something that you could tal~
to Jon Bauer, Jon was the reporter that was here ,and he can relate to you how
the conversation, how they got in the conversation. Alot of times the press
calls us back about something that took place at our meeting during the day
and asked for a comment from staff and from ourselves and other things, so
that is not an unusual thing, like your client was singled out for that to
happen to. And, I can understand why that you would be alarmed if that was
the situation, so.
Erwin Jones: Well, that's the story I got. I, I'd like to make a suggestion
right now. I'd l~ke to confirm with my client and I will get back to you
with a letter, suggesting such things as my client and myself may feel would
ease what we feel is a situation with the County.
Chairman B. G. Brown: That, that's all our goals, I.believe, is to get
something that your client feels is a reasonable working situation as far as
what he wants to do with his property and what is going to be necessary for
him to do to satisfy the building code and the State and County laws, so that
there aren't any surprises. And, if he didn't understand the RV situation
with the RV park then that's a good example of what a simple phone call on
his part would have, if that's his intent, would have let him know.
Erwin Jones:
department.
We feel the phone call should have come from the building
Chairman B. G. Brown: Well, the Building Department has no idea what Mr.
Bandy is going to do with his property and to see him cleaning that property
on the beach is his right if he's not working wi thin 200 feet of the
shorelines why then he doesn't have, there's no need for the County to call
him about anything. He can clear his property if he damn well pleases. But,
if we get a phone call and say Bandy's clearing his property and he's going
to put an RV park in, then that would prompt a telephone call or a visit, one
of the two from the County to see if, in fact, the accusation was true,
because you have to understand Erwin, cause we can have all kinds of
accusations about what people or doing come to us and, as you, when they're
investigated they mayor may not be true.
Commissioner Georae Brown: Erwin, you probably already know that Gary asked
me down and John Gat~het for lunch one day and he showed me all through his
house and all through his operations and what not. A very likeable guy, you
know my interpretation. And he inf'erred, to me that all he wants to do is get
along with the people and get along with the County and that sounded
reasonable to me. He has no, he don't want to create any animosity wi th
anybody, you know, he wants to get along. That was my interpretation of
what, and I don't know, I guess that was his purpose of his asking me down
to have lunch with him, I don't know.
Erwin Jones: I guess that's all I have. Thank you very much for your..
Commissioner Dennison: Thank you, Erwin.
Chairman B. G. Brown: Okay, Erwin, thank you. We hope that your client and
the County can work this thing out.
The meeting recessed at lunch. Commissioner Dennison and Commis-
sioner George Brown were present for the afternoon session. Chairman B.G.
Brown was absent due to a meeting out of the Courthouse.
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Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of August 8, 1988
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BUSINESS FROM COUNTY DEPARTMENTS
PUBLIC WORKS
AGREEMENT re: Consultant Services: Ricrht-of-Way Acauisi tion: Oak
Bay/Flacrler road Intersection Improvement: Ken Endorf: Public Works Director
Gary Rowe reported that Mr. Endorf is a consultant who provides right-of-way
negotiation services. This agreement is for the Oak Bay/Flagler Road
Intersection project. Commissioner George Brown moved to approve the
Agreement with Ken Endorf to provide acquisition services. Commissioner
Dennison seconded the motion.
CONTRACT re: Window Groutincr at Jefferson County Correctional
Facility: Tollshark Construction and CUStom Woodwork: Commissioner George
Brown moved to approve the contract with Tollshark Construction for the
grouting of 54 windows at the County Jail facility. Commissioner Dennison
seconded the motion.
AGREEMENT re: Professional Enaineerina Services: Inspectincr and
Monitorincr the County Correctional Facility: R.W. Beck and Associates: . This
agreement, Gary Rowe reported, is for inspection and monitoring of the jail
structure to determine whether or not the cracks in the building are a
reaction to settlement of the fill that the building is built upon. The
estimated cost of the agreement is $8,110.00. Commissioner George Brown
moved to approve the Agreement with R.W. Beck and Associates as presented.
Commissioner Dennison seconded the motion.
UDdatlna the Official County Road Loa: Maaee and Emil Roads:
Commissioner George Brown moved to approve and sign Resolution No. 19-88
updating the Official County Road Log to reflect the following:
change the spelling of McGee Road to Magee Road
Add 0.02 mile to Emil Road makin the total length 0.22
miles.
Commissioner Dennison seconded the motion.
HUMAN SERVICES
CONTRACT re: #2200-60653 Amendment #4 Mental Health Services. Human
Services Department: Washinaton State Department of Social and Heal th
Services: The contract amendment with the Department of Social and Health
Services for the Human Services Mental Health program was approved by motion
of Commissioner George Brown, seconded by Commissioner Dennison.
III III *
Application for Assistance from the Soldiers' and Sailors' Relief
Fund: commissioner George Brown moved to approve the application for
assistance from the Soldiers' and Sailor's Relief Fund submitted for Dan L.
Ruby in the amount of $233.84. Commissioner Dennison seconded the motion.
1
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Reauest For F'W1dina. County Directory: Public Employees Relations
Committee: The request .from the Public Employees Relations Committee for
payment of $100 to cover the cost of copying and binding the County Directory
was approved by motion of Commissioner George Brown, seconded by Commissioner
Dennison.
Appointment ofiMember of the Reaion 8 Peninsula Tourism Council:
Commissioner George Bro~ moved to approve the appointment of Dave Herrick
to serve on the Region a Peninsula Tourism Council as recommended by Dan
Youra, Executive Direct(,r of the Olympic Peninsula Travel Association.
Commissioner Dennison se60nded the motion.
I
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commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of August 8, 1988
Page: 23
Letter of SuP])ort: Grant FUndinQ' for theClallam Jefferson
Communitv Action Council's VISTA ProQ'rams: Commissioner George Brown moved
to sign the letter of support for the Community Action Council's VISTA
Programs for emergency health care, food and shelter. Commissioner Dennison
seconded the motion.
Payroll StatusChanae
Forms were approved by motion
Commissioner Dennison:
Public Works:
Sheriff:
Planning and Building:
Forms: The following Payroll Status Change
of Commissioner George Brown, seconded by
Geraldine Robinson
Robert Blaurock
Shawna-Kay Smith
Application for Grant Assistance: Jefferson Countv Solid Waste
Enforcement ProQ'ram: WashinQ'ton State Department of Ecoloav: Commissioner
George Brown moved to approve and sign the application for grant funding from
the State Department of Ecology for the Jefferson County Solid Waste
Enforcement Program. Commissioner Dennison seconded the motion.
MEETING ADJOURNED
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JEFFERSON COUNTY
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
&&~
B,G. Brown, Chairman
ATTEST
O--~
Member
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