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HomeMy WebLinkAboutM021787 ..~ - ". ..... I, l ~\ ~\ 1 i ~ --"'"~, ~-- - ,- ,....-.--.- '.. -, - _I 1- _I JEFFERSON COUNTY BOARD 01' OOMMISSIONERS I - _I 1- "I District No. 1 Commissioner: Larry W. Dennison, Chairman I .. _I District No. 2 Commissioner: B.G. Brown, Member 1 - ..1 District No. 3 Commissioner: George C. Brown, Member , .. ., 1- MBI Olerk of the Board: 3erdine C. Bragg I .. _I Public Works Director: Gary A. Rowe 1 - -I I- .' - liIii~ ._, .~_. Jilin .. .""'. .-Ir'-- - ~i ."~'''-'',;;ljJi;.iii~;~...<<~...__EG MINUTES Week of February 17, 1987 Chairman Larry W. Dennison called the meeting to order in the presence of Commissioner B. G. Brown and Commissioner George C. Brown. BUSINESS PROM COUNTY DEPARTMENTS Public Works Department Purchase of Sheriff's Patrol Vehicles: Public Works Director, Gary Rowe, asked for approval to order three (3) full size police pursuit vehicles for a total prices of $32,170.50 on the State contract. Commissioner B.G. Brown moved to approve and sign the purchase requisition for three police vehicles as described. Commissioner George Brown seconded the motion. CONTRACT re: SUDDlvina Petroleum Products to various County Aaencies for 1987: Thomas Oil: Commissioner B.G. Brown moved to approve and sign the contract with Thomas Oil as previously awarded. Commissioner George Brown seconded the motion. Riaht-of-way Plan and SUDDlemental Aareement: Rice Lake Road: Leland Creek Bridae ReDlacement: Washington State DeDQrtment of TransDortation: The reconstruction of the Leland Creek Bridge will begin as soon as the right-of-way plan is approved and the right-of-way secured. Only part of the bridge will be constructed at the standard bridge construction width, however the piers and the footings will be placed in such a manner as to accommodate a full width bridge in the future. Commissioner B.G. Brown moved to approve the Leland Creek Bridge right-of-way acquisition plan and the Supplemental Agreement with the State Department of Transporation as presented by the Public Works Director. Commissioner George Brown seconded the motion. Personnel Matter: The Board met with Gary Rowe in Executive Session to discuss a personnel matter. Planning Department Landau Rome Business; Timbercraft Homes, Martin Road (Continuation): Senior Planner, Rachel Nathanson, reported that this is a continuation of the review of the Landau's proposal to construct a new shop for their home occupied business known as Timbercraft Homes. The property is located' at 85 Martin Road. A map of the proposed site ~ot 13 rAGE 0570 , . , ~ Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 2 plan was then reviewed for the Board. A building permit has been issued for a 161 by 26' office building. The permit for the new shop structure has not be issued and is what is under discussion today. The adjacent neighbors to the east (Palmer Osborne) have a number of concerns about approval of this expansion of a home business. Rachel Nathanson reported that she has done a site inspection and has also had a meeting with the Osbornes and the Landaus to discuss these concerns and work out conditions of approval that are acceptable to both parties. The thirteen conditions that resulted from that mediation session were then reviewed. After further discussion of the issues that were discussed at the last meeting, Rachel Nathanson explained that after that meeting, it was hoped that all of the concerns that the adjacent property owners have expressed could be dealt with through mediation. The Osborne's have stated that these condition represent their best attempt at mediation to deal with those concerns, however, they still take issue with whether or not approval should be granted for this business as a home occupied business. Mr. Osborne then stated that in the period from 1982 to 1985 a traditional timber frame home business occupied the Landau's home and a 700 square foot shop. During the later part of 1985 this business made an enormous transition from their home business to what amounts to 4,800 square feet of space, which also used considerable external storage. Some of it behind and along side their barn and some outside their pre-existing shop. That expansion was a change in character from the home business they were operating. In August of 1986 the Landaus proposed this expansion which would make their outside area 7,650 square feet. This, Mr. Osborne feels, put the business out of the home business category and into the industrial category. Mr. Osborne further stated that they are confronted directly by unsightly and inconvenient parts of this industrial activity. The Osborne's object to the activities on this property for a number of reasons, he continued. The County has authorized this activity which, he does not agree should have been done. If the County issues the Landaus' a permit they will be able to expand their industrial operations without any evident limit. Granting this permit to the Landaus might end up, in effect, protecting existing industrial operations and just worsen the situation Mr. Osborne concluded. Rachel Nathanson added that when conditions are placed on a building permit the owner can not get an occupancy permit unless each and every one of the conditions are met. She further explained for Mr. Osborne that if the Landaus do not take out this building permit their current operation is a "grandfathered" use as it exists. Edna Anderson stated that she is a retired attorney and feels that the heart of this matter is the need to implement the Comprehensive Plan so that this type of problem can be avoided. 30hn Ilman, a resident of Marrowstone Island, stated that he is a strong advocate of the Comprehensive Plan and an Implementing Ordinance. This proposal seems to be clearly industrial. Once it was a perfectly logical and proper cottage business which has grown beyond those bounds. It would be highly unfortunate, Mr. Ilman added, to allow an industrial activity such as this to continue in a residential area or to allow it to expand. Mr. Ilman urged the Board to consider the County as a whole in this matter rather than to consider each individual applicant. A neighbor to both the Landaus and the Osbornes, Rob Marin, then stated that he feels that it is unfortunate that the newest guidelines for the Comprehensive Plan are not in place to keep this type of thing from happening. One test of a "Cottage Industry", Mr. Marin continued, should be if the investment made in the buildings can be recouped if the property were sold as a residential home. This investment should not be made in a residential area, but in an area already designated for the kind of heavy manufacturing that the Landaus are proposing. ~VOl 13 ..rAG~~:. ~ 0 571 , . Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 3 Charles Landau said that he feels it would be useful for the County as a whole if the Comprehensive Plan had more teeth too it and the guidelines were stronger. He added that there seems to be some misunderstanding of the extent of their current and proposed future operations. "We have had as many as seven employees working on our property for as long as one week. We have also had as few as zero employees working for roughly six months of that same year. We have employed three full time workers in our shop. Our scale of operation has been two or less employees as an average for the year. The reason for the expansion is that the facility that is presently there is not large enough to comfortably operate, as well as to consolidate and clean up some of the mess. We're not trying to build a big industrial business. We're trying to build a business where we can build ten to fifteen houses per year with approximately the same number of people. We feel that if we're able to live within the restrictions and guidelines outlined in the Comprehensive Plan, that we're not overstepping the boundary." Rachel Nathanson explained that the guidelines that Mr. Landau is referring to are those outlined in the draft Implementing Ordinance because there are none in the Comprehensive Plan. Two adjacent property owners (The Kennedy's and Pete Harris) who were not able to come to this meeting have asked by phone, Rachel Nathanson added, that it be stated that they are in favor of the proposal. Commissioner B.G. Brown noted that as far as the visual impacts to the Osbornes, these conditions should make that situation better than the current situation. The driveway problem will also be improved by the condition suggested. Commissioner B.G. Brown moved to approve the building permit with the thirteen conditions suggested by the Planning Department. Commissioner George Brown seconded the motion. Chairman Dennison added that he feels that in the absence of a clear County policy with respect to home occupied businesses and because this appears to him to be more of an industrial activity than a home occupied business, he doesn't feel that it is appropriate to grant this building permit. The Chairman called for the question at which time Commissioners B.G. and George Brown voted in favor and Commissioner Dennison voted against the motion. * * * Bill Pollack, C.A.C. re: Bid Call for Brinnon Senior Center Water System: Commissioner B.G. Brown moved to approve the bid call and set the bid opening date for the installation of the Brinnon Senior Center Water System for March 9, 1987 at 4:00 p.m. Commissioner George Brown seconded the motion. Mr. Rousekeeper. Interface re:. County'S participation in the Department of Labor and Industries Retrospective Ratina Proaram: Mr. Housekeeper of Interface reported that his company is about half way through an evaluation of the County's entire insurance program to determine if it is adequate. Gary Rowe advised that he will be arranging a meeting for the Board to discuss the findings of this evaluation ata later date. Mr. Housekeeper then explained that the County has two separate account numbers for Workmen's Compensation with the State Department of Labor and Industries. One is for the Auditor's office (all current expense employees) and the other is for the Public Works Department. Interface based their original fee quote on the Auditor's office account number only. The fee for both accounts is $4,001.44 per year ($333.45 per month) greater than that originally quoted. Commissioner B.G. Brown moved to approve the increase in the fees for Interface as requested by Mr. Housekeeper. Commissioner George Brown seconded the motion. : VOL 13 - -.0'." 57~~ Hf,~ . I , . Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 4 Charles Schaaf. Attorney re: Western 3efferson County Court Services: Mr. Schaaf asked what would persuade the County to form a joint Justice Court District. combining the existing Clallam County district with all of western 3efferson County, for the western portion of the County? The advantages of this would be that any person arrested in western 3efferson County who is cha~ged with a misdemeanor and requests a jury trial could have the trial held in Forks which would make it easier for the State Patrol Officers to attend. It would make .it easier to contract the law enforcement work in the west end if the hearings could be held in Forks as well .as in Clearwater. A small claims court could also be held for the residents of western 3efferson County which does not exist now, unless they travel to Port Townsend. Chairman Dennison stated that he would like to know 3udge Majhan's feelings on this type of a system and he would need to, know how much money such a proposal would cost the County. The meeting was recessed at the end of the business day and reconvened with all Board members in attendance at 7:00 p.m. in the Quilcene School Cafet~ria for the following hearing: REARING re: Proposed Resolution to Desianate 3efferson County as a Nuclear Weapons Free Zone: Chairman Dennison welcomed the over 100 area residents in attendance to present comments on the designation of the County as a "Nuclear Weapons Free Zone". Each speaker was asked to state their name and limit their comments to about three minutes. A man asked for a general report on the number of letters and petitions regarding this issue that have been received by the Board and that copies of them be made available for the public. Chairman Dennison advised anyone who would like this information to call the Commissioners' Office where all of the letters and petitions are on file. In response toa question regarding whether this resolution is a law, Chairman Dennison advised that a resolution is not a law. Since the draft resolution was not available the Chairman explained its' basic content. Another man asked if the Chairman proposed this resolution just to keep jobs away from Indian Island. Chairman Dennison answered that the resolution only addresses nuclear weapons. One more hearing is being considered to be held in Brinnon. A woman asked what the expense would be to the taxpayers of the County if a special election is. held on this issue? Chairman Dennison stated that he doesn't know what it will cost to have a county wide special election. Commissioner B.G. Brown stated that the determination will have to be made to either put it on the next general election ballot or to have a special election for it. In response to a question on what effect the resolution would have if passed. Chairman Dennison advised that the purpose of the resolution is to make an official statement from 3efferson County that we don't want nuclear weapons in this County. If the Congress funds the $60 million Navy project, that presumably would include nuclear weapons storage at Indian Island, and it then becomes a part of the Navy's mission, the resolution wouldn't have much bearing. While this Navy project is in the political process the people do have a voice. Robbin McMillen: (In favor) Mr. McMillen stated that he and his family drove thousands of miles looking for a home. "We know for a fact that 3efferson County is a very unique area. We don't have shopping malls, chain style fast food areas and the hype that fills in around these developments. If we'd liked what military money did to Bremerton or Silverdale we would have moved there instead. I don't buy the idea that the military will never make mistakes handling these deadly weapons. I can only conclude that continued nuclear buildup represents how closely intertwined the .VOl '1'l'" -0 u rAf;~ 573 Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 5 u.s. government is with the private industries that produce parts and materials for these awful weapons. This government would rather spend their time and money on nuclear war components than taking care of the Vets. Peace will come to this planet but not while military and big business run our country for the economic and power pork barrel it is today." 30hn McKinley: (Opposed) "This is a depressed area and we need as many jobs as we can get. We're so close to Bangor and everything anyway, what's a little more going to hurt. We need the jobs." Denise Fradin: (In favor) "I would like to thank the County Commissioners for giving people the chance to express our feelings on such a controversial issue. A nuclear free county can show that we have vision for a strQnger world. A more caring world where hunger and sickness are our past and peace is our future." Pea Lewis: (In favor) "I am strongly in favor of this resolution. Those of us that believe that a nuclear buildup or even a nuclear standoff is not the way to peace, find few opportunities today to speak publicly for our beliefs. The proliferation of arms has led to a globe that is plagued with wars and terrorists activities. Proliferation of nuclear arms will lead to global desolation. I can find no way to induce our present government to seek peace. Our President, however, has said that local areas should take more initiative and more responsibility. Let us then take responsibility here for one step toward peace." Dana Fickeisen: (In favor) "I feel strongly about the same thing that these people have spoken about. I grew up in Kitsap County right next to the Navy yard with a lot of military people. I feel real strongly that right now we're at a time of change. There's a vision and its for the future of love and not for the future of killing each other and maybe that sound real simplistic, but I think that's where its' at. We need to go on from here and actually act on it. We need jobs, but let's be creative about how we make our jobs. It's not just jobs that we live for. The vision that a lot of people share in this world, and I think that we all share deep in our hearts is that vision of peace and love and brotherhood and that's what we're all here for, so let's do it." Diana Hoffman: (In favor) "I have a daughter who is nine and a half years old and I'm very concerned for her. When I was nine years old I never knew anything about nuclear war and it really concerns me that my daughter is now asking me about it. I'd like to protect her. What do I say to her? Is there going to be one? Are we contributing to one? I don't want nuclear weapons stored there. I'm for a nuclear weapons free zone." Linda Clifton: (In favor) "Our country has a strong tradition of freedom and democracy and most of us are willing even to die if we must in defense of that. But, with the use of nuclear weapons we are contemplating not just our personal death but the death of the planet itself. Not just the people and their values, but all the crops and all the forests and all the fish and animals and flowers and children and everything thatfs alive can die from the use of those weapons. They're not like guns or missiles or even the bombs that we've already used, which we use for our own defense. But if anyone, anywhere fires nuclear weapons, either by design or sabotage or accident the destruction will not just be limited to Qur enemies. We can surely use our intelligence to find other ways of making a living and other ways of defending our traditions, than this kind of suicide which is almost assured by nuclear weapons. Ordinarily it isn't the prerogative of a county to approve or deny our national military policy. But, just as we have individuals morally responsible for government acts, we have to speak up as individual citizens at whatever levels that we're are able to effect our government. I don't want nuclear weapons lVOL 13 fAG~ - - 0 574 Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 6 , anywhere, but now is our chance as citizens of this beautiful county and of a free democracy to make ourselves heard." Frank Reithel: (In favor) "In the Leader, Commissioner George Brown was quoted as saying he doesn't understand how plutonium gets into the atmosphere. Was that a correct quotation?" (Commissioner George Brown stated that he is under the impression that we don't have a nuclear reactor in our County.) Mr. Reithel stated that that is correct and added "I only wanted to point out the danger that some of us see as possible, come from fire. The possibility of a nuclear warhead being involved in a fire. Plutonium oxidizes at a very low temperature and produces a very fine mist or cloud of plutonium oxide. This can float about and you should remember that such compounds go right on decomposing, the radioactivity does not stop, so that everyone of these very fine particles is still giving off radiation that is damaging. So the answer to your question, should there be an accident, there would be fire perhaps and then there would be a cloud of plutonium oxide that would be very harmful indeed and irreversible." Frederick Tusou: (In favor) "I have a rather unusual situation in that I worked with radioactive materials for five years. If the fuel from a rocket or missile ignites there is a very good chance that plutonium will vaporize. One millionth of a gram is enough to kill anyone here within three days. There is no truth with the military dealing with nuclear weapons. Itfs been twenty years since I've dealt with any nuclear weapons or nuclear devices in any way. Recently I found myself going to the Veterans Hospital. Now, twenty years after exposure they're concerned about my safety. I'm concerned about our safety. There is no such thing as a safe nuclear device, anytime anywhere on this planet. I'm for the resolution. but even more, I would like to see it go in ordinance form and have a general election. This is something that we can not settle in any manner except all of us saying how we feel to everyone on the planet." Tom Murkowski: (Opposed) "I don't necessarily like the idea of having a nuclear weapon as my neighbor but on the other hand I know that those weapons are keeping our country strong and I vote to keep our country strong. Each and every day that you as Commissioners go into the Courthouse to meet you walk by a memorial that lists the names of people that have lost their lives in doing that very same thing, in helping keep our country strong. It's inconceivable to me to think that you won't do your part in helping keep the country strong also." Brian Bessy: (Opposed) "I work at Indian Island and I'm a father and a husband and working at Indian Island is not what it seems to some of you. . We're not a bunch of wild guys out there high on dope, smoking and drinking and not thinking about our fellow citizens. We care. The problem we see, working at Indian Island, is a personal problem because we're on the defensive because of what the paper says and because of some of the things we hear in past meetings. I personally would like to address my Commissioners and tell them that this is an issue that is tearing the 3efferson County community apart and I want to put it to them that I want it to go up to a vote of all the people in this County to tell the Commissioners how they feel. I don't feel its' right to have petitions and meetings decide to give the Commissioners the opinion or what they must do. I think it's up to all of us to go up to a ballot, take part in' the democratic process and decide then whether we want a nuclear free county or not. I don't like nuclear weapons and I don't like what they do. We don't need to be told over and over what they're going to do to us. What we need to do is sit down as a community and talk about it without getting reactionary or idealistic and talk about the facts. Talk about how it effects all of our lives in this community~ The jobs the dangers, the plus and minuses. I want a vote." lVOL 13 rAC~ o 575 , . Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 7 George Hansberry: (Opposed) "What Brian just said is what I wanted to say. Quit tearing us apart. We've all got the same concerns. None of us want to see our kids with no face, or whatever they do to us. Let's work together and not call it unamerican like he said. That really tears me up because I think we all basically believe in the same things. We all want our freedoms. We just don't want to see one another hurt, and we're really hurting one another. I can see where you can loose friends if you keep up on this. We need to work together. Send a committee to Russia talk to them people. I'm for Indian Island, for the jobs and against the resolution. but I'm for America." Vern Garrison: (In favor) "I don't believe that the potential horrors that would result from an accident in handling these nuclear weapons on Indian Island are a reasonable risk that we can assume in exchange for just a few years of enhanced employment." C. Montaomery "Gummy" 30hnson: (In favor) See written statement submitted. Terri Choate: (Opposed) "We live in a beautiful part of the country and we pay a lot of attention here to our natural resources. We seek to preserve them and protect them. I think that there's one very important resource that we totally ignore and that's the human resource. There's no opportunity in 3efferson County for many people to earn a decent living, to raise a family comfortably. The children we're raising, we're raising for export. They're going to have to go somewhere else to find a job. Many of them will have to go into the military service where they will probably find the best opportunity to get more education to get a decent wage. I see this ordinance as kind of a red herring drawing our attention away from what our attention should be focused on in 3efferson County. I don't think that anything that we will do here will eliminate nuclear weapons from the world. From our country or from the Soviet Union, or from the other countries that have them. What we do need to seek is that they won't be used. What's going to prevent their use are outreaches for understanding between countries and peoples of the world. Turning jobs away from Indian Island won't promote this." Lyle Tinker: (Opposed) "I have no particular ax to grind in this particular situation. I hear people talking about nuclear bombs in 3efferson County - right out here in Dabob Bay, in Hood Canal in Brinnon and all the way up to the bridge -- is an exercise area for nuclear subs, which on many occasions contain nuclear bombs. WQen those Trident submarines go out to see they go out right by Port Townsend and through the Straits. I hate to disagree with C. Montgomery 30hnson, but the point still is this, I think this resolution is absolutely wrong. I heard them speaking about 100 jobs and do realize that 100 jobs in 3efferson County supports 1,100 people. I don't want 3efferson County to become an old peoples home. I think the young people of 3efferson County should have jobs and have the opportunity to raise their children here and I want that for them." Bob Wills: (Opposed) "I'm speaking for the development of Indian Island because this county needs the jobs that would be provided. Look around you, we have the refineries at Anacortes, the fighter base at Whidbey Island, Keyport,Trident, the Boeing Company, Bremerton Naval Yard, Fort Lewis, Paine Field, McCord Field and some day we might also have a task force in Everett. Our country needs the storage space where it will be readily available for these forces. Where else in our area is more available and a better place than Indian Island? Now. we can protest all that we wish, but the Navy's not dumb. They're going to put what they want to do on Indian Island and that's exactly the way that it should be, because our country must come first. I don't want war, but I do want my country to be strong and if necessary to negotiate from a position of strength rather than a position of weakness. There are some people in our county that believe that llJOG 13 UfsE o 576 Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17.1987 Page: 8 this proposed resolution has tended to divide the citizens because when discussing it, it seems to pit the old against the young, the employed against the unemployed, the veteran against the non- , veteran and yes, even the veteran against the veteran. This is America and this should not even happen. People from outside our County have been encouraged to sign the nuclear free petition that originated in this County and was in evidence at the Seattle Boat Show~ Minor children were also invited to sign the petition. This is all fine but voter registration was not a requirement at all. Freedom of speech is one of our basic freedoms and everyone in this country has a right to express their own opinion, but our politicians should never forget that it is the registered voters that put them in office and if they are to be re-elected then it will be the registered voters who do it. I urge the Commissioners to either kill this proposed resolution or if nothing else let the people decide its' fate at sometime in the future at a regularly scheduled election." Penny Hubbard: (In favor) "I was raised in a conservative Navy family. The issues around this resolution have polarized people and itsf taken the form of a generatio~ gap. And yet many of us who are the young people who support the resolution do so, not because of ne~ age values but because of the values that were taught to us as we were growing up by our parents. By parents who survived WWII and know that if there's going to be another war and nuclear weapons are used that nobody is going to win. By father, who like my father, were in Hiroshima just a few days after the bomb was dropped and who know the kind of destruction ,that goes on when nuclear weapons are used. Two years ago my father went back to Hiroshima and says that it still has the same eerie, dead feeling that it did just a few days after the bombs were dropped. He said as he stood there that one thing came to mind was that something had really gone wrong in the world that we ever did this and that we would consider doing it again. The continuing nuclear weapons buildup is not necessary for the defense of our country. We have all of the defense that we need now. This is only necessary for the continuation of the big business of the weapons industry. It is one of the greatest threats to the natural environment that we depend upon for our very lives." Eric Carr: (In favor) "I agree with a lot that's been said tonight. A lot has been going on the last few years with our federal . government. A lot of social programs have been cut, military spending is up. We have 35,000 nuclear weapons. I just think that there are many better ways tor our federal government to spend that $60 million. I have a lot of pride for the people of New Zealand and all of the other nuclear free countries. I hope that someday I can respect the people of the United States as much. " Carl Sparkman: (In favor) "It's been discussed that if we're in that we opposed the jobs that it would bring into the area. know several people that live in the area and I don't think any of them that are qualified to work in the nuclear arms handling at Indian Island. I'm not opposed at all to Indian Island attracting jobs into the area. There should be jobs for everyone. To suggest that we want to split up the community by taking very aggressive attitudes to the young people being specifically anti-nuclear. The other people feeling that they've served their country, they've done it well and be golly we will prove to the world that we have the guts to stand right next to the nuclear bomb. We don't need to prove that. We live here. We have an opportunity that is placed in all of our hands, to show the world, everywhere, that we choose to live in a nuclear free county. It's the opportunity to make our mark. Not that we're opposed to the military. I'm not opposed to the military. It's the opportunity that we all have to make the statement of how we feel against nuclear war. To suggest that the Navy will go ahead and place it here if they choose, that may be the fact. The other favor I I know .. VOL 13 rAGE' - ' 0577 Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 9 fact is that we have the opportunity to make the mark of anti- nuclear." Mary Morgan: (In favor) "The existence of nuclear weapons on the earth and possibly in our county seems to elicit a range of feelings among people. Some feel safer because of the existence of nuclear , "weapons. The fact that my country has potentially earth shattering weapons poised and ready to use, while Russia has like destructive potential aimed at us, does not make me feel safe at all. Many citizens and leaders agree that unilateral reduction is a necessity. It is a goal towards which out country is supposedly working. The proliferation of nuclear weapons and their growing availability to nations large and small, stable and unstable, has created a volatile situation on the planet. The unthinkable use of these weapons would effect the entire earth. Now, as a county we are considering making a statement. This statement might, or might not effect the expansion of Indian Island and the local job market. But, it seems to me the real question is the use of our democratic voice to say what the majority of us feel about nuclear weapons in our county and in our world." Karen Strawhat: (In favor) Ms. Str8what read the following statistics from Mother Jones, this months issue: 132 communities have declared themselves nuclear weapons free zones. Voters in 11 states have gone on record in favor of a nuclear freeze. Since 1978 over 83 cities and counties have passed referenda calling on Congress to reduce military spending in favor of domestic needs. "I would like to see our county join these communities in being in favor of a nuclear free zone." Rav Roaers: (Opposed) "I think its' a terrible responsibility that the Commissioners have on their heads because of the current divisiveness in our community. We should be standing together. We have means of protesting anything we want to protest through our regular representatives in government. We have to think about taking the responsibility of government, the problem of government, nationally as well as locally. Its within the realm of national government to handle the nuclear issue, not the' county. Without a vote one has to make a lot of assumptions and I think that's a hazardous situation. .lust think about being in charge of this great country of ours. This is the 200th year of our Constitution. I think that we need to be a little more loyal to our federal government. They're up there trying to do the best they can. I'm afraid that the cynicism that prevails and is perpetuated by so many people these days is counter productive to us remaining in the United State." Madeline Pitts: (In favor) "I would first like to thank the Commissioners for providing this forum because its' very appropriate that in a Democracy an important issue such as this should be discussed at the heart of the system, and we are the heart of the system. The issue of nuclear weapons is a moral issue and to call it anything else is to hide from the personal responsibility that comes with knowledge and understanding. We have the responsibility to the gift of life so generously given to us all and that we share with the planet earth. And the responsibility goes beyond petty differences and national boundaries. Knowing this we must respond as our conscience dictates regardless of how we think the Navy, or our federal government or our neighbors will react. This is a lesson taught to us by our great leaders, both secular and religious. I hope we will not shrink from this responsibility. I hope 3efferson County will be declared nuclear weapons free. And in this way we add another voice calling to stop nuclear madness." Cha Smith: (In favor) "I think that the county should stick up for our right for self determination. We shouldn't be preempted by the State, or federal government or the U.S. Navy on issues of environmental quality. I think that the nuclear industry is a dead end industry. It's an industry without a future. It's not lVOl 13 rAGE 0578 Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 10 an industry that makes any sense at all when you stop to think about it. It's not an industry that has a future for kids. It's not an industry that's going to create any kind of hope for our kids. The kids are not going to grow up and think 'I really want to guard nuclear warheads at Indian Island', they're go~ng to leave the county. The jobs in this county depend on our resources. Our resources are it. They're our money in the bank and if we move in the direction of a nuclear economy and a war economy we're not doing anything to preserve our resources. At the worst the nuclear industry is the annihilation of all life and at the best itfs a sure thing guaranteed polluter. You have guaranteed ground water pollution within fifteen years. The jobs in this county depend on a clean environment." Trim Williams: (In favor) "I've been to the other two meetings but haven't spoken before. I'd like to tell you a personal story regarding the safety of our nuclear arsenal. I worked for Boeing and was a field supervisor of quality control in the Minuteman Missile program. The missiles were to be delivered and installed without warheads. After Air Force acceptance they would then put the warheads in place. The missiles have safety pins installed that kept any electrical signal from any source from completing the circuit and firing the rocket motors. These saving pins were to be removed by the Air Force after acceptance and were always in place while Boeing was in charge. During the testing phase a problem occurred at one of the sites. The missile was trying to launch without the proper signal being given. There were many electronic safe guards against inadvertent firing, as the rockets were solid propellant and once fired could not be shut off. There were no destruct packages installed in those tactical missiles. The problem was traced to thunder storms." Mr. Williams then explained some of the firing safeguards. He further explained that after the engineers found the problem and remedied it the missiles were delivered to the Air Force, and another electronic malfunction was experienced after that. "The final fact that I'd like to leave with you is that not all weapons and delivery systems are as safe as we're led to believe. An accident can occur and if Murphys Law has any validity it will happen sooner or later. Let's send a message to the powers in charge that we don't want nuclear weapons near us and in fact don't want them at all. There are other ways of defending ourselves that don't assure our own destruction." Autumn Scott: (In favor) "I strongly support the resolution to make 3efferson County a nuclear free zone even if it is primarily a sYmbolic gesture. I have always felt very helpless regarding the nuclear arms buildup, but I feel it's important for all of us to start making a stand and this is a good place to start. I sYmpathize with the people who are concerned about the need for jobs in this county and I agree with this, but having heard the discussion regarding this I don't believe the Indian Island expansion is going to be the answer. I also understand people's desire to feel safe and protected, but I feel very strongly that nuclear proliferation is not the answer for this problem either. Out country's security is a very challenging issue, but we need to be a whole lot more creative in meeting this challenge. Thank you. " Kathleen Horner: (Opposed) "I'm a mother, a business owner, a property owner, a voter and I'm concerned. I against the resolution, I'm for having the nuclear weapons at Indian Island and there's a reason behind it. The Russians made a promise to us many years ago that they were going to take over the United States. They're going to do it peacefully. Well, by allowing them to use their. nuclear weapons because no matter what we say they're going to continue to build up their nuclear weapons. They've proved that to us year after year and we drop back in our, then they have the power to tell us that if we don't do things the way they want, then they'll use their nuclear weapons on us. At this time we don't have anything more powerful or more convincing for the lVOl 13 rAGt --0579 . . Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 11 Russians to show that we are willing to take a stand for what we feel is right. It appears that there are many people that are anxious to turn our land over to the Russians. They believe that there's nothing wrong with the Russians that there's no harm there. Our schools are not teaching our children anymore about the communism and what it really is. In communism we loose our freedoms. I'm concerned about that for my children and my grandchildren to come. Yes, nobody wants nuclear warheads around but it would be ridiculous to have it in downtown Seattle. We are out in the country. There's less people around here. Many veterans have spoken who fought hard in WWI and WWII, they lost friends due to communism and people trying to take over and they're not ready to give up and let the communists take over our country now. Russia is not a land of love and freedom. We talk about love and peace in our country. We're not going to have it by just laying back and letting the Russians gain strength and we become weak. The only way we'll continue to have peace, I believe, is to protect it with the nuclear weapons that are the same type that our enemy also has." Roaer Horner: (Opposed) "I feel that we should give our best tools to the police department, that we do have bad guys out there and we need somebody to take care of them, and I don't want to send them out there with just a little twig or a switch to go after them when they have something bigger. I do feel that the military is our police force for the United States and I want to give them the best stuff that I can give them to help protect me and the freedoms that do enjoy in this country. I would like to have a nuke free area, but I would only go along with that as long as Russia would agreed to have a nuke free area too, and these other countries. My major concern is Russia, but it's not the only one because now we have some more unstable countries getting hold of this stuff too. History has shown that the weak countries go down the tubes and the strong countries survive. I think this is a federal issue. We already have a way to address that and it's definitely not through the County Commissioners. People speak here of giving a message of how we feel here. You bet your life I feel it does give a message, just like the people who refused to fight in the Second World War, gave a message to some of the other people in the other countries. 1fm very much against the ordinance and I would agree that it should be done through the ballot box by those who are registered voters." Elmer Renskers: (Opposed) "I'm concerned about Quilcene but I am opposed to your resolution. You love protection don't you, you want something over your head? Well let Clallam County, Mason County or North Dakota, South Dakota give you that protection, let's not have it here in 3efferson County. I've heard some wonderful speakers here tonight. You're wasting your time here you should be at the U.N. If you want to fight a fire, as a fire instructor, we instruct that you start at the base of the fire not at the tip and you're way out at the tip here tonight. If you want to speak against nuclear war get to the base of the fire. don't work on the tip. We need cash flow in this community. We need cash flow in the County. You put up an umbrella around this County to give us protection and the money will rotate and rotate until it is worn out and then our Commissioners will have nobody to even vote for them. You'll have nobody to worry about. This is not a problem of just nuclear war. This is a problem of survival, survival of the people of 3efferson County and that's where we should be worried. I have a granddaughter who years ago had read a little about atomic energy and atomic bombs. .lust enough to be scared to death of it. Four months later she received a little bit better education and said 'grandpa if there's ever an atomic bomb any where around here, I hope it's right on top of me'. My little granddaughter is in Frankfurt Germany tonight protecting you and me, bless her soul." 3im Davis: (Opposed) '''The only way I would even begin to accept the thought (the resolution) is if it is put on the ballot and let lVOL 13 rAG~ 0580 Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 12 everyone vote on it. The people I see primarily wanting to see a weak defense establishment are those of an age group that could not possibly have contributed much to their country. No way, so therefore, I do not like to see what I see in the Port Townsend newspaper. In the last meeting in,Chimacum I think it is despicable of the Port Townsend newspaper when they call veterans 'narrow minded patriots'. It is despicable. I would remind each and everyone of you that if it had not been for military men from the time of the Revolutionary War you would not be sitting here tonight, you would not be enjoying your freedoms. Only about 40% of the population of our country has ever felt strong enough to fight for their country. So, therefore, I think those of you that denigrate the veterans or the military service are not necessarily --you're reaping the benefits without paying the dues. That don't mean that you don't have the right of speech, freedom of the press or so forth, but I think you also have a responsibility. I don't seethe Port Townsend paper exercising the responsibility of journalism. They have repeatedly published every word that they could possibly get of the pro communist attitude, from Nicaragua, they have imported the communist officials, they have reported word for word, verbatim, of what has transpired in regard to Nicaragua." Bud Porter: (Opposed) "A lot of you people think that I think you're a bunch of communists. I really don't you know. You're American citizens just like anybody else. I've got one thing I want to leave with you, it's a poem better know as a prayer 'God, fill our hearts with gladness as we visit the graves of our loved ones with sadness. For so many times. in so many places they give it all for us today.f And for you folks who are supporting us here and believe in my way of live and the United States government, good. For you other people who don't put on the end of that that I did not support them." Alison Perry: (In favor) "I'm only 22 years old and I wasn't around to know war in my own life. I respect all of you who have offered your life to protect us here. Things have changed now. It's a different situation now. There are no winners now. Anyone that can say that in the next world war, we will come out of it and maybe the Russians wonft. We all suffer from it. We can just suffer from having them stored on Indian Island." 30hnPitts: (In favor) "I thank you gentlemen who have spoken about patriotism. I thank all the women and men who put their lives on the line and those who lost them. But; I do believe as this young woman has so succinctly stated, we are in a different situation now. There are no winners, there are only losers. Regardless of whether there is a bomb ever detonated, we still become the losers, except its' a slower sort of lose. It's robbing us of our morality, it's robbing us of our resources and robbing us of our strength in an ever shrinking world, in which we have to become more and more dependent upon each other, not less and less dependent and more and more fearful. I would suggest that you should go farther than you have gone. I suggest that the resolution and the statement that's sent from 3efferson County, not only saying that we stop nuclear arms, as a statement from citizens, because this is government. I am government and we are all government. But, we should encourage our government to stop this endless drainage of our life blood and our resources and instead of investing that money in nuclear arms. invest it in the community to create jobs in a more meaningful way. We should take possibly 6% of this money and instead of sending Senators and representative and governmental agencies, we should send people to other countries to represent us and let them touch us and us tOUch them and know that we're all human beings and not animals. I support this resolution because I believe that what we're about is our morality, our love, our families. We are shrinking away from this and are losing the very essence of what happened 200 years ago and we become the enemies ourselves as we introvert on ~ VOL 13 rAf,~'" --0581 . , Commissioners'Meeting,Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 13 ourselves. I encourage you to either pass it or let us vote on it.1I Ken McMillen: (Opposed) III also take exception with the article that is in the Leader. It incensed me. I guess the basic reason for it is that it shouldn't have happened. I don't think that this whole subject should have gotten this far, but I'm one of those narrow minded patriots. And by that the paper implies that if you're not a patriot then you're broad minded I suppose and they're referring to veterans. Can you imagine in the last fifty years every time the United States called upon its people to defend the country, everybody had said I'm gay and can't go, I'm a conscientious objector, I'm going to college, I'm running off to Canada, nobody had gone. Where would we be? Everybody can't hide only some can. But, I do have to say that I respect those people who objected to .the Viet Nam war and objected strenuously enough to go to jail. I'll shake their hand anytime. Now, some of the points that haven't been answered very well: Nuclear safety - comparisons made to working nuclear reactors are comparing apples and oranges. We're a target area - I wouldn't send a nuclear weapon to Indian Island, not until about the fourth or fifth wave, cause they're going to want to get all of our strike capability first. We're not increasing our risk by their being nuclear weapons on Indian Island. I get the impression here that those people who are for the resolution are wanting to make a statement about nuclear weapons. I'll sign a petition, now, against nuclear weapons. But, how can we unilaterally disarm? Nuclear weapons are now in the hands of at least six countries in this world. Where would we be if we had no nuclear weapons in this country? I'm not for the nuclear race, but this isn't the way to do it. Defense spending - It's out of hand. I'll sign a petition to reduce military expenditures as long as we stay one step ahead of our enemies. .lobs -We need some jobs in this place. Not everybody in this county is happy with having to live on food stamps. No everybody is happy to live on welfare and unemployment. A lot of people want jobs and if there's only one job made on that island itfs worth it. Why are we bothered with this thing at the County Commissioner level? I said last time these guys have got better things to do. If the people who want this resolution are really serious about it, let them go out and begin the initiative process. That means they get the signatures, they go to the County, the County verifies all those signatures and its put on a ballot. Preferably at a general election, preferably 1988. Obviously they don't have a ,great deal of faith in their position or comfort in it if they feel they have to go through the County Commissioners and avoid the populace out there. Let's send a message to our Commissioners not to do anything by resoluti9n. Let the people do it. Make the public come up with a petition. Congressman Swift seems to believe that the majority of the people in 3efferson County think we don't want that activity on Indian Island, well I think that Congressman Swift is going to be very much surprised where he see that signatures on the petition. I don't think the County is going to accept any signatures that come from Seattle." Ed McMinn: (Opposed) IIRegarding the bomb situation, Ifm very much against nuclear bombs anywhere in world, but I'm,also very much against us laying down and not protecting ourselves unless we can have some kind of negotiation with Russia so that we feel that we are on a par with them. I think it would be rather foolish to say that Russia is not going to do anything if they get the superiority by a big margin on us. I agree with Ken." Mr. McMinn then read a statement made by B.G. Brown in last week's Port Townsend Leader. "I would hate to see the County Commissioners pass this thing one way or the other without going to a vote of the people. I don't think it would be fair, I don't think it would be in their best interest.1I Arnie Finley: (Opposed) "I just hope that the County Commissioners will spend as much time getting new business and jobs in this area lVOL 13 fA{;~'" --0 582 . . '. .. Commissioners' Meeting Minutes: Week of February 17, 1987 Page: 14 as they have on this. I think this thing has gone just about far enough. The only way you're going to make a difference is to convince everyone else that we should be nuclear free. I agree, I wish didn't have the bomb either, but we've got it, we got to live with it, so lets deal with it. But we also need jobs in this town. There's five businesses that have closed up in this town in the last six months, and I haven't seen any of you do anything to help improve that situation." Chuck Russell: (Opposed) "I've made quite a few statements on this SUbject already. I would like to say tonight-that if the Commissioners decide to put this up to a vote of the people of the County, I don't think the Commissioners should abbergate their responsibility and that I think that they should express also their individual opinions so we'll know who to vote for the next time the elections comes along." Bettv Worskull: (In favor) "I just want to thank the Commissioners for giving us the opportunity to make this kind of a statement. Without their bringing it to the fore I don't think any of this would have been brought about and the Navy would have just gone ahead and done what they pleased. I don't believe that storing nuclear weapons on Indian Island will be the economic boon that some persons seem to think. If the Navy follows the usual pattern they will use contract labor, which means temporary people. This will mean an added drain on the already financially strained services such as Sheriff's Office, roads and schools. I have to say that I am offended by testimony inferring that having served in the Armed Forces automatically give one an edge on patriotism and courage." Carroll Mercer: (Opposed) "This carrying on, on this Navy matter reminds me of a bunch of kids, because back in the days when I was a County Commissioner we had the same kind of a hassle over a garbage dump. We knew we had to have it but nobody wanted it. Now, where are we going to put those weapons if we don't put it where we've got a safe place to keep them?" Chairman Dennison stated that he introduced this resolution and the reason that he did was because he believes that the majority of the people in this County are in favor of what the resolution states. He also stated that this type of hearing is what democracy is about. The people have not only a right, but a responsibility to go through this process. This is an extremely valuable process. The Chairman then commended the audience for their conduct during the hearing. 3EFFERSON COUNTY B F COMMISSIONERS SEAL: B. G. Brown, Member ~, {l~~ 1'2eorge C. rown, Member ATTEST: VOL 13 r~~~r-0583