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District No. 1 Commissioner:
District No. 2 Commissioner:
District No. 3 Commissioner:
Larry W. Dennison, Member
B.G. Brown, Member
John L. Pitts, Chairman
Clerk of the Board:
Public Works Director:
Jerdine C. Bragg
Brian L. Shelton
II "Iii,' M ]1; qeN U ]11. E" SII'lilI'
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Week of February 4, 1985
The meeting was called to order by Chairman John L. Pitts
with Commissioners B. G. Brown and Larry W. Dennison both in attendance.
David Johnston, Architect re: Bid Call for Propane Tank
Assembly for new Jail: Architect, David Johnston, advised the Board
that a bid call needs to be published to supply the Low Pressure Propane
Gas Supply System for the Jefferson County Jail. Propane will be used
to run the emergency electric generator an4 the storage tank will have
to have enough capacity to run that generator for 14 days. At full
capacity the generator is estimated to burn 54 gallons of propane per
hour. A 20,000 gallon tank would take care of this requirement and
also provide enough for the Sheriff's vehicles to fill up, since
the patrol cars are propane powered.
The bid specifications allow for the alternative of a new or used tank,
with or without a full load of propane and requires the feeder lines,
metered pump and electrical work. The tank must be a minimum 20,000
gallon capacity, but can be larger or can be two tanks that would equal
that capacity.
The Board expressed concern about the security around such a large tank,
from vandalism, or people shooting at the valves. David Johnston noted
that if the tank was installed and connected properly there should be
no danger in using it, but that the valves probably should have some
protection around them.
Commissioner Brown moved to set February 25, 1985 at 4:00 p.m. as the
date for the bid opening. The Architect will include an addendum to
the bid specifications asking for a bid on metal boxes around the valves
for protection. The Bid Call will be published in the Port Townsend
Leader and the Architect will see if it can be listed in trade journals
in the Seattle area. Commissioner Dennison seconded the motion.
Contractor's controversy: David Johnston reported that he and the Pro-
secuting Attorney submitted their prioritized list of nine arbitrators
from the names submitted for their consideration, and indicated dates
in February and March that could be set for the arbitration even though
the Prosecutor didn't feel he was being given sufficient time for case
preparation. The Architect is waiting for an OK to go baek to work on
the project from the Prosecuting Attorney. -
To explain the $7,057.24 bill being submitted for payment to the State
for his fees, David Johnston noted that his office has spent time
in the following three reas on the jail project: 1) the preparation
of additions to the proj ct such as the propane tank bid specifications,
2) the billing for the ork to finish the building which has not been
billed previously and 3) special work, such as spending time and making
copies fbr the Bonding A torney and preparation fo the litigation.
14~$
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11
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Since the jail is not substanially inished and the Sheriff's Office
can not move into the facility the ontractor is responsible for liquidated
damages which include utility and i surance bills, but since the contrator
has not paid the water bill the Ar itect suggests that the County pay
the water bill and then add it to e claim against the Contractor.
As a final note, David Johnston re rted that since the Contractor's
consultant may be needed to do a c 'tical path study of the project
which could be used as evidence in he artbitration proceedings.
Dr. Frank Reithel re: He icide Issue: Eleven interested
citizens were present to ear it e ~scuss the aerial application
of herbicides with the Board. wing is the verbatim transcript
of Dr. Reithel's presentation. I
Chairman Pitts:..Comments and be a~
is a ....... works with the communillt
Was a Department Head in the Depart
of Orego from 1955 to 1962, has se
National SCi.ence Foundation for MO~
research assignments including pIa
rogen fi ation in the past. So I'l
Dr. Reitel: There's some generall
an wrot own some things that mig
I think n general when you're loo
to. make iUdgements in law or in day
that no cientific test or experi
unless a I of the variables save 0
that any data that you consider, if
value on y if you can be sure that
is prese t. That's excessively dif
Even und r favorable circumstancesl,
to assig in biological experimentla
keep all those variables under co~t
have lab ratory experiments in whic:r
stant, t en you have to make the dr
able in hat we call real life.
I,
Minutes, Week of February 4, 1985
Page 2:
In an effort to be fair to the Coun
he has offered to split the time an
so of the $12,938.39 billed he has
consultant fee and half of the fee
the final bill being sent to the St
also be part of the claim against P
Furtherm
unless t
a case w
result 0
where Ie
you can
that 2,4
2,4-D, b
at some
as to wh
of cours
then, at
re, no results of scienti.
ey are repeatable by inde
ere there is two or more
can't give credence to e'
al problems are involved,
force the one side or th
dicholorophenoxyacedic ac'
longs to a class of chemi
evel, but so are alcohol
ther 2,4-D is toxic or no
, it is, but. I say at som
what level is someone exp
Now, the
that are
ticipate
Recently
should n
because
known is
be fatal
next thing to know is tha
offered to an individual
, and I think even in the
there's been alot of pu
t be administered to chil
t brings on a qomplication
the fact that ithecombinal
Now, the go~ernment, a
y, David Johnston advised that
attorney's fees with the County,
ubtracted the $3,755.18 legal
harged for litigation services, so
te is $7,057.24. This bill will
lmer Constructors.
ilable for questions..... Dr. Reithel
and has a Doctorate in Biochemistry.
ent of Chemistry for the University
ved as a Program Dfrector for the
cular Biology has a variety of other
physiology, molecular biology, nit-
turn it over to you Dr. Reithel.
onsiderations, I set down last night
t be worth kee ing in mind .........
ng at scientif'c evidence and having
to day life, y u have to remember
nt can yiel a unequivocal result
are held c ns ant. That means then
presented, an be accepted at face
ne variable an only one variable
icult for b ol gical experimentation.
causation i e tremely difficult
ion, becaus i 's so difficult to
ol and even wh n you do, if you
you keep al v riables,save one, con-
ision wheth r hat result is applic-
to be given credence
tors. That is, in
as to get the same
leads to difficulties
se, there is no way
eriments~ I think
ays refer to as
uestionably toxic,
, that the question
tion. Beyond discussion,
questions becomes
c research
ndent inves
des everybo
her side.
ecause, of'
other to do
, which you
Is that are
d caffeine.
is beyond
level. So,
ed.
of chemical insults
s that are not an-
ou see evidence of this.
to the fact that aspirin
ai' childhood diseases
a~ 1. Not so widely
I nd Tylenol can also
ge, cy has asked the
the combina
ten give re
aily press
icity given
en with cer
hat can be
ion of alcoh
overnmentr1
~ VOL ~ 1
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Minutes, Week of February 4,1985
Page 3:
Dr. Frank Reithe1 continued:
Tylenol people to indica.te on the bottle that y u' e notsluEPposed to
drink alcohol if you take Tylenol and Tylenol p op e say," ell we'll
do that if you can tel+ the alcohol people to p t orne thing of their
bottle saying you shouldn't take Tylenol. That's, I guess'I' an extremely
fine example of the fact that people apparently Ii e to killl each other.
It's one of those things that we've enjoyed sin e ime beglan.
There is another thing that I've not heard disc d here,1 but that should
be kept in mind, and that is the action of 2,4- plantsl. Fundamental
action is to act as, is that of a growth stimul You s[raY 2,4-D
the plant responds as. if you have g'ven it a sh f oxyge. Ah, I think
that it has not been decided, at Ie st the mate that I have available to
me, has not been decided whether th effect of D is to disturb the
synthesis of DNA and protein or whe her it affe ts membran transfer.
Because apparently one' gets some in rease in solid materiall in the plant
but you also get a very large incre se in cell siz which 'liS. due to an
infiltration of fluid. The evidenc that was give to you here, last,
there was one piece of evidence tha impressed e nd thatlwas the prob-
lem of ~1 blood brain barrier. It seemed clea t at 2,4-~ at some level
does effect the behavior of theblo d brain bar ie. I'd ~ike to just
say a couple of words a.. bou.t.thiS, b. cause this isa t chnical subject which
is not too difficult to understand ut let me e pI in a Ii tIe. When
the blood circulates in the bodytlro all the tissIes, your tissue has
need for more everything that's in he blood excep . the ce~l. So, you've
got an arterial pressure that drive the fluid f he bodYI~into the
tissues. When it gets past the art rial venus juntion thE plate pressure
drops so the fluid goes back out in 0 the blood. 0 you have a dynamic
system. Fluid continually going in 0 the tissu s, fluid cpntinually
coming out of the tissues. The bra n however, is n a spe~ial situation.
It does not use all of the material that are i t eblood1stream. Only,
mostly glucose. That means not onl must all he circulating cells
be filtered out but a great many of the chemicals hat are in the blood,
they also must be filtered out. So you have a sp cial me brane system
surrounding the brain.
I think that if you take a course i
in high school you're given the ide
if they're pushed through and ifth
go through. That it's' some kind of
tissues for which this is abso1utel
barrier is one of those membranes.
that membrane is carried across. I
just flowing through like, ah, ball
that carries material across. Now,
Biology or Ch
that fluids w
substances ar
a mechanical a
inappropri te
Every singl m
's an activ p
through holes
evidently 2,4-
r Physics
II got rough a membrane
nIt tOOl big, they
tion. ~here are some
and blo d, brain
lecule that goes across
ocess. So, it isn't
there is a mechanism
effectls that behavior.
And,11 again I don't
hat is" many of the
one on ~ither animals
two .th~'ngSare involved,
e got tree kinds
nd these are three
rent kil ds of metabolisms
clear egample, the
differ~nt.than that
That's not the only
when yo , when you
ng about, you say
evidenlce for the
almost ~nknown. Because
And nOb6dy's going
mind ils that whatever
lied to fetuses or
a on a imals, again
st we ave.
able. If I made plots
, I increase the dose-
sif!g_t is way, :Cor
~:"l- 487""
1....-'... .
h. .~
Now, there's one more thing and one
that is this. I don't know that th
of the number of people affected an
age this way. Here are the number
more item,
s is easily
geared dos
f people in
. . ~fm 1,'..1.)11
_YUL fA:r:
There is another matter that,' swell
see this being discussed very openl
results that were reported here in
or perhaps were reports of results
first of all, let's talk about huma
of human beings. Embryo's and fetu
quite different kinds of human bein
that go on. I will give you one ex
type of hemoglobin that is present
in the fetus, is different from tha
difference, but that's a clearcut d
examine the metabolism, and that's
what is the affect of 2,4-D, then I
affect of 2,4-D on the. embryo, or 0
there isn't any way that they can d
to let you do this. The important
results are found in adults cannot
embryos. And, I think it was alrea
are not directly applicable to hUma
Minutes, Week of February 4, 1985
Page 4:
Dr. Frank Reithel continued:
most substances, you get a curve that lobks like t at (drawing on the
chalkboard). I think that it is rather~atural to ass me that it looks
like that. That's not the case. You do, not get i cre sing number of
people affected, for increasing doseage iin a linea fashion. It's an
exponential. Now, you might take some c'omfort in he act that this
stays pretty close to the zero level. The problem . stat you don't
know where it crosses this axis. And thie problem f d ciding the effect
of very low doses of anything, either cpemicals 0 ra iation, that's
an exceedingly difficult technical.questiion. This carol up a good many
years ago. I remember Lineaus Pauling was very ac iveiin encouraging
thought for the effect of radiation of pieople. He mad the point over
and over and over again, that although you can say lowidoses of radiation
statistically do not affect people very much. We' e n t talking about
statistics we're talking about people. ~ow many p opl' do you want to
kill with radiation? Are you completely: satisfied it I ill only take
10 more people? And his answer was let's! not kill nybldy. When you're
in a situation where the effects of low doses on a ult$ are difficult
to determine, it's even more difficult tb determirt th't on fetuses and
embryos. I think the decision that you pave to ma e 0 the basis of
the evidence is a very difficult one.
Those are the points that have occurred' to me as
evidence that I heard.
th ught about the
f om arry and B.G....
I
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ulal
,
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Commiss'oner Dennison: My major questiop'sstill ha e t do with the
t l.ngs at, were t ere seems to be som'e question as '0 the effect in
the, of 2,4-D, ah, the ah, well with respect to me abolism and with
respect to ah the immune systems and thipgs like t at. I Because those
seem to be areas where there isn't, doesp't seem t bel clear evidence
that, i refutable evidence, that there i~ an effec , bit there seems
to be s me evidence that there is an eff!ect. And he tack of information
, I
that se ms to have more to do with the fact that w do 't know much about
the imm ne systems yet. We haven't real!ly studied the II effects of 2, 4-D
with respect to metabolism, maybe as much as neces ary to have a clear
cut ide, but I guess my main concern is: with the 'nfo1mation that we
don't h ve and what you're, what you're Isaying see s t, bear that out.
That th re' re just an awful lot of questiions that aYb]. we haven't even
thought to ask yet. I
hel: Yes, well in the case of drugs that redministered to
t ink, what I have just outlined indicat s w:y it takes so
rs to have a drug accepted. A g!recflt many xpe iments have to
be done. And it's a. very costly process'. I Now, si ce the government
really require that kind of evidence for erb cides, of course
e going to be questions because nobody's g inglto pay for it.
you can sit, it isn't true just 'of2,4-D, 't'sltrue of all this
, down here Mr. Eccles is selliTIig :poisons hatlI wouldn't have
my house. And people are sprayipgthem al ov r everything,
g themselves, because the gover!lJmellt doesn't r quire anything
nd so, it isn't, I think it's wr:ong to say, we I don't know all
of this about just 2,4-D. We don't ~now all of thi about a whole
lot 0 t ings. Alot of the proprietary things tha ar, on the market.
I see people with ah, spraying, in fact ia commerci I t ee sprayer came
into my yard , I was living in Eugene at ith~ time, nd, egan spraying
materials around on my trees and when I 'looked at 't t see what com-
pounds e was putting on, I asked him to: stop righ th n and then go
away an never come back, because they were really dea ly substances.
Now, I can't, I can't give you any help iin'this in thelsense of providing
any more information. The information tihat: you ha la t time seems to
me to be very good. She quoted papers, 'ah, direct ref' rences, but if
unless I misunderstood her, what she was! saying ov r ad over again is
that a little bit, it's difficult to co~e to a bla k a,d white decision
because you simply don't have the kind of ~vidence tha will allow you
to do it. You can say on the one nd there is ev'den'e that 2,4-D is
~..:, r=-- =- i
Chairman Pitts: Very well, accept any q~estions
....do you have anything?
commiss~oner Brown: I don't have anythin!g in parti
'''C~ i
.,... I
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'=.~
rr. :'~J
~. hi!l\'f.
1-.~""
''''l"''
I. ,I
- ./1:-'"
488
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Minutes, Week of February 4, 1985
Page 5:
really
have no
in orde
exactly
on the
Commiss
1.n is t
chemica
taking
Dr. Rei
to t at
contain
out of
are two
entirel
chemica
its bee
system
In othe
it is f
nicely
ratio 0
stances
won't.
white.
about.
stuff.
naught
Chairma
vitamin
questio
were ta
variety
come in
and/or
every on
has com
effect.
I start
in and
to the
My
I remember Phys!iology Pro
I
,
hel: That is correct. And~everr. y. Fre
r and it's his liver that I needs worr
it. I i
i I. '
Pitts: Sometimes I wonder'why ~eople
continued:
i
,
oxic, but by the same token you can sa
evidence that it is not tox_c. [hat's
to say that a chemical sub tane'e is n
what the drug companies do, and 'furthe
abel how this should be use .
One other t. ingthat I
~s 1. ea 0 synergism, Wher eitper a
itself interacts with, forj exam~le, a
r the result of a drug thatl someFne is
he1: Well, perhaps I can gtve y6u a m
one. You have present in the cellI, su
a special mixture of enzymef that norm
he cell, substances that ar difficult
possibilities ,either the s. bstan. ce .is
, and so excreted, or it ispart~ally
nature. Now, I know ah Of~' one ispecif
known for 15 years now, th t particul
or getting rid of excess as irin is ov
words the toxic level for hildren is
r adults. Now, if you havei this' metab
or one sUbstanc.e it may acc~pt an. other
the concentrations that get intb the
will be metabolized, in sofue ca~es it
And again, it's just very difficult to
It depends on the cell, what cel~, wha
The liver has an enormous c~paci~y for
Okay, must of us defy the w rId armmd
r)
Dennison: That's why y u call it
Well, it is a fact th
out of an animal is in the
a buffalo, tear open the i
fact getting the best kind
,
t, o:f cour
liver. Th
side, eat t
f fobd the
Pitts: And if they shot a polair bear
sis A.......... ',like that. f\re yo.. u thr
s? (Commissioner Dennison, res)., I wa
king about synergism, we cal alIi, we c
of the Synergistic. ef. fects rom pat. u. ra
contact, and we all conside natural f
combination of natural an manufactu
in this room and everyone rut there' a
in contact with and had a reactl.ion to
That it's something that w~ do 'see in
I want to say that I'm not f che~ist.
ut of Veterina.r.y school, I', a veterin
ote in the paper.
em also is in evaluating thls and I've
nments for professors or cl sses: and a
opinion about the literatur search.
reading, and I've read thi stu~y twi
d I wanted to ask you about the proprri
for or against specifics", but :there
y a toxicity study has been donel, that
ed in the original paper an a v:ariety
i
,
on the other hand you
rea ly he point. And
tl t xic you have to do
mor , y'u have to put
,
i
I
I
,
rti ularly interested
, ,
do compound or the
dru th t someone is
tak'ng'l
, '
a m tabolic answer
ulai components that
wili destroy or push
eta olize. There
ed ut of the cell
ed,!you know, in its
se,lmainly aspirin,
in Ihildren, that
ade' very easily.
ly 'uch lower than
sys'e working very
bu ltldepends on the
e~l. ether both sub-
wil in other cases it
say yes 0 no black and
ti sue you're talking
get lng rid of rotten
us ith 0 r livers.
Ii
s opposed to...
r saying it is
eat
I
n s ys
abolt,
I
i
,
I. i
1.V r
at all.
not all the
,
e'
,
ol
e r
co
i
that
hunters. used
And they
hyper-
everal
01;1
the
ld
ducts
hat
er
i~tic
efore
et
nee
Vtl.
rches
ked
f t'e problems that
w, at Dr. Shearer
,
I'ml ot either here
omelistanceS where
rie y of concentrations
a c clusion in the
I
I
!
11 rA~ r. tt~". 48~J
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I
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Commiss oner Pitts: original paper1was given, but the conclusion that
was g~v n in t e ~tera.ture search ~asionly that.w ich eferred to the
highest concentration and the conclII sion was given on tt e basis of that
and not the four lother lower,. and a ypu'showed th cu:t e, this is a
logrhyt mic curv~ and not a linearurye. It seem to Ie. if it's an
objecti e literature search then thft $hbuld be in,lud4 and whether
its the respon. Sib..ility of the. body W,hO','..s,.evaluati..n' th~s to go back and
read al of the bibliographythat'slbeeni given, or whe~ er that should
be take as a faqt, isa question tl::1at,Ilhave in'm mi~. If I were
working for someo. I,ne and. asked to do I a I,., (terature ,starc~ I would not think
that t at would 'be fair to excludeiintormation tomak~ a point. I was
~~~~~d. ~. e a~~? whac Your.oP.inion on Hi. tefa~.. ure sea,-.cts i d that sort of
Dr. Rei hel: When you're making a iit~rature se~r~h,:il a effort to
raw co c uSions,i. youa...re f. ace. d wi tl::1 th." is,.. all the. t~, ime ~ So, as I said
before, in these general considerations if you can be ~ re that only
one variable is varying, if you canibesure thatm re ~ an one investi-
gator has found t'"he same thing, then.,. yo.....u'.. can. accepI' tha as fact. Other-
wise you cannot. ' And I'm quite sure that some of ,he p pers that Dr.
Shearer was citi~g would not meet that criteria, 'm q ite sure that's
right. What she was doing was, to $ay, this is wh t's I een publisped,
whether you take ,it as fact or not I is quite anothtr mq ter. In fact
she didn't say tHis is fact, she said this has bee rep rted. How~ver,
she said there were some documented:cases of nerve cen ral nerve rtlamage.
I think we can't argue that one. T~ere you are, if'S ~ ke an auto obile
accident either it occurred or it d~dn't. That's ,iff~ ent than a tox-
icity study. I i I
Chairman Pitts: In the case of th01e ! I
. , I I I
Dr. Reithel: Excuse me but there's $till the quest on 0 causationl'.
And as I said before causation is r4allyvery diff cul~ to pin dowp.
So you have, you would have, then y<i>u would have.t loa at that paper
very carefully to be sure that youwould'be willin to I ay yes tha~ was
the cause. j I
, '
" I
Chairman Pitts: Okay, and certainly in a neuro-to ~cid
in fact, very very much, dose relat4d.,. .'. j' i
Dr. Reithel: Inde.ed. ~ i . I
Chairman Pitts: And, I guess what ':'e J}aye to do i. ou~
evaluate under what condition and w~atdoseage tho$e c4
looked at, how they apply to what it1l.fc'lct the ques*ionl
a.nd when does t. hi..S linea. r prog. .ressi~.n, ....when. does ',. tll1~' is ~.
that's the question, is where does ~hat;:: lcick in an are
statistics. And I agree totally. ~ think that yo r e~
and the Tylenol is an extremely peri+inent example 0 wq
about here. I think that we all kn~w,that alcohol alort
abused and that without Tylenol we 9-ave a severe p,obl~
and many other societies specifical~. y '. r,... el. ated to. a cohq
potential for abuse of Tylenol even!withb itself ian,
pecially with alcohol. , I think we ~et idown to the ques
you were saying is the question of 1feSPOnsibilitY.~ Whyt
that the, I was going to say tobacc~ t~d\lstry whic is I
example, the alcop.ol industry is go:i;.nglt9 take res onsil
what point do we force them to take I re~p~:msibility~ An
these are very important things andlt9.e qu~stion,t at ~
when I try to fin,d examples and parallels u;; that ! 0 OIl
to drink alcohol and no one is bein~ forcedito tak Ty~
the responsibility here with the users!o~ these ch mica
the resp.onsibility.. of .let'~. say thejal.e...oh,olla. nd t.h Ty~
that they have, once it's stamped 01~ the, lalpel, ,or who~
the label, their 'responsib~li ty end~ t~ere.! ' ' I
, , I , ,,' I '
Dr. Reithel: Excluse me, p~l'I:ticular~y.in tobacco. If)l.
there's no question, but s~ill somelpeQple chhoose 0 srrl
their re~ponsibil,ity. Ii"! I
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I I 1 I I JI'-
! I Vtl l r~ E t'>
Minutes
Page 6:
Week of February 4, 1985
k Reithel continued:
~.\,.,~"."-'
I
,
I
ah, they fire
i
,
,
,
I
I
own minds is
es that ar~ being
s. What level,
grhythmic,1 and
we talkingl about
mple of the alcohol
t we're ta~king
is harmfu~ if
in this sbciety
. And there's
xcess and es-
ion and what
and when i~ it
nother verf good
ility and at
I think tpat this,
always com~ back,
is being torced
nol and thkit
s goes farl beyond
nol peoplel assume
er stamps bn
. I
u need evi~ence
ke. That's
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4rO
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Minutes, Week of February 4, 1985
Page 7:
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Chairman Pitts: .We shoul9 not be inflicted bY'LaslP ssive smokers I
then that ' s that'is a respolnsibility and controvrrsy h~t' s going on right
now i,? o. ur Statehouse cu. L1r~nt~y. with bile .ls and I wi h s9. eth.ingtha~' $
very ~mportant tJ me as <itn: ~nd~v~dual. '. :when we do h v$ a mass of ~nt
formation. that i so over~helmingly str.. on. g, in fhe cflse let's say of I
tobacco or in my estimate 'alcohol, some,' some r serFhers feel that <its
much as. 70% of t e cancer lin this co. un~.... ry,.. . is ca se, ]by I those two thitj1g. s.
Urn, then we have a body ofl information!, gbing ba k 01 tlfe 50' s, we have
a.. body O.f. in. form a.tion gOi."n:.g back toasbe....S t.. osis tpo, n~s~ e peoples minds
to the 20' s . My next quesition to you its when w~ h v <it body of infotmation,
let's sa:y on a specific driug. t~at we ~~v~ been alIi g I about, ho~ mu~h
do we we~gh that? Or a spiec~f~c chem~Cal that e' e~t4lking about, l:j1ow
much do we weigh that in.the overall picture of th n sl hen we're using
something and w.e have epi~emiological s. tudies 0.. w' .a: e f.OI. low..;.up studies
on either accidents at the: site of man4tfacture r J;1e vier exposure t~
applicators or how much dol we weigh that in the sc ere10f things Dr.
Rei the I ? ! ' I I
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Dr. Reithel: Well it's a iloaded question. ~
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Chairman Pitts: It's a lo'aded question but I h ve t , I'm wrestling
with this and I don't kno~ how else to answer i .
Dr. Reithel: Well, I'll giive you an answer that I h~t' s not the b~st
answer that I can think of I, but I'll see if I Cftn 0 kltoward it. Tl11ere
is some kinds of things tbJat happen ind~ily lijEe h~tiare excessivetY
difficult to define. And II must say that overS. p r'lio, of years there
have been complaints by p~ople in sprayep areasl. think that ah, m~ny
of the people who manufac~ure herbicides' say well her~'s always a bt\1nch
of ~ysterical women aroun~ who are loo~ing for ~om t i:g to.bla~e for
a m~sfortune or alternati~ely, there a~e, alwaysl pe ple!who ~mag~ne they
are sick when they aren't Isick and I think stat~st cs ts with them u*der
those circum.. there' re aliI sorts of people, ahl, i 0 I work in a so~ial
service agency it doesn't Itake you very long tOI be 0 elconvinced that
a large. nu. mber of p.eo PIe. ii.,.n our p. OPUlat"... ib". n.' havel p. s C~i~ difficulties ~
Unfortunately it's also t~ue that you fipd thesr s de $ffects happen~n g
to people because the person that's haVing the if iculty has a vert
low tolerance. And the hneadth of tolerance in th 0 ulation, justl
as you h. ave a breadth of rrl.ental health',,'. Y.. ou hav~ a b~re.. dth of tolerance
is very brief and it makesl it extremely difficu t 0 ~he person who i
is suffering to say that qaused my probl~m, jus a itiis difficult for
the person who is adminis~ering to say you're i?lag'n,in it. This isl
a medical problem reallY,. not a sCienti.f~,.'cprobiem, litl..s a medical Pt.Ob-
lem. I think that again, Ibecause alot of my grll du te training was in
medical school, I tend to !look at all th~se thi gs f~o a medical vi~w-
point rather than an, a st.raight chemiC., al viewp in.1 . nd I can remeijIber
that at the time when I wais in medical school m se fl' h, most physicbians
were inclined to think th~t better than 50% of II cpmllaints were psychic.
Now, the opinion has changed and it hap changedh' be af,s. of a basic I
scientific discovery. Na~ely that thelnerves t em elv$s synthesize a.nd
distribute. in t~eOrganiS~. materials th...at.._ a.re lrke h.or,.ones, they a:~
hormones. So, ~nstead of la nerve, you've been au ht that a nerve ~~
something that you know goes from here to here. Y u g' phff here an~
it goes phff out there, i~'s just a conductor. ,Th tl's!nonsense. It!
does, in fact, conduct a, ja disturbapce but in bdd'tio to that it'sl
a living tissue that synt~esizing maFerials andrth se iormones that it's
synthesizing do have effe~ts on other organs inl th o:y. So, it's very
much mo. recompli, cated th.a. nj. that. It ip. p." erfect~y oss ,.Ible for a person
to have a psychic disturbance which hen in turp r all causes a physical
ailment. Now, I think thaJ.t'S become Cl.. ea.. r in m~ p Ofe$.sional lifetim.e.
I guess I'm sort of talking around y ur questio, hat:I'm trying tol
say is that there is a, qur ignoran el i:s so va t h!at i it becomes alrpost
impossible to arrive at. a !nice clean C1J., tl. legal. ~ec' SI.~iO' that's black I
and white. This is what, ~verybody w nts'. Thatl's hty ,eople want leiders
they say. we want some ethin.~. to be yes o:r.. n.. 0, butl un dirt: nately a biOC. emist
quite understands that people are so cpmplicate~ t at tt's a wonder hat
anybody lives at. all. Anc~.., you have e. a, gr.. eat ma~y o,.SSibilities. And.,
so I guess my own view in lall of thi is that, 'f opt e asking about
what is a toxic level of. slome chemic I then I av to ask are you ask-
ing this on a statistical ibasis or! a e' you askipg his on a personal
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Minutes, Week of February 4, 1985
Page 8:
Dr. Rei~he1: basis? Are you tal~ing about 150 out th
talkinglabout one person? i 'And, tHat's -r'eally, really
tcp when you say, what do, ~ou find 'in the' literat*re? ,
t~e lit rature is some pi~iful li~tle experiment that'
scpmebod~ who had money to ido it, 'from government or f
W!fuateveJr and he did the b. ~.st he CO,Uld w. l,th some a.. nimal
N w, wh ther that' s appr9~riate 01:1 not Ii don't know.
tlat I an kill all sorts lofthings with 2,4-D, but th
efsaria ly mean that a spraying isin' t goling to cause
d n' t k ow whether I've really... '
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C airma Pitts: Yes, yo,\-! !have, you've given me Some s
~ w atfyou ve given me and I was reading something by
ot[:her n' ght, as we get more e. and mor,.e educ,.ated we get mo
fcmnded and I think this, is true. . The more we learn a
m re co plex they become, the more, confounded we i get b
re 0
hat
at
bee
om c
tha
can
t do
hat
are you i
t amounts
e find in'
done by
mpany or
he had.
assure that,
sn't nec-'
ffect. l'
s........
Wilson the
more con....
ystems the
whole system.
hel: That's right, I guess you"ll forgive me f I
e people who refuse any fo.rm of control. I The act
ess you had one series of :controil after anothe , yo
ounded, as y.ou we. II know, lof a wh..ole seri.es oflcont
ould live without it. I think no society can ,ive
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P. L B G? I II 'h kif .
~tts: arry, ... rea y want to t anou r com~ng
a , I would love to be involved in this sort of hilo ophical
that we're really sort; of vogue. Yo' know I think
t at on~ t ~ng you've-pointed out is that certain indu+tries look at
a group I of screaming women and kno~ that statistically I out there they
can getl by with something, because it reminds me of in II the 19th century
w~en th~ coal miners would lay their slag, there would become a lake
a:ry.d thep the dam wou. ld bt, eak and tr. e towh would b" e was ,.ed out and they
scty wel~ it's an act of God. That's no longer accepta Ie. I think the
q est.ionts we are faced Wi, t~is tha'.,tcommu..nities, '.,.like .qurs, c.ommunities
a d sta es and societies a~e no longer atceptingsome ~f the criteria
t at we had in the past. .t}nd my own personal experien~e, practice ex-
p rienc~ is not as much he~bicides as insecticid~s. M1 own personal
e perience is that we have !many more problems with insecticides and since
w 've b~en looking more clqsely these are a greater ditemma. But, I
d nIt ttink that we can jU&t look at ,ins~cticides or h~rbicides we have
t look at carbon monoxide Icoming out of: the exhqust of all of our
a to~ob les. What kind of !respiratory problem and hQwlmany individuals
i it one or 150? And, ho~ do we deal with thes~ things? And I think
t atthtse questions are'important to raise. I ti:hink ~ at there are
m nymay parallels we hav~ to look at instead of, as you said to me
s metware three months ~go, we have to look att bior+gions. We have
t lpok at how these thing~ articulate within bio-regiq sand interdigiting
s rts 0 things, how do we ig t a handle on this?, The : estion. Well,
I appre iate your time in 90 ing in and was most irewarding I think as
f r as 'm concerned. ' fOr tim~ for doing itl
D . Rei
ate t 0
l~ve un
a1e com
a imal
either.
ay that there
s you couldn't
Ire, you
ols. No
ithout it
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PUB~ C WORKS DEPARTMENT
A plica ion to 0 en Right-Jf Way, Fairmohnt/WoodJi,an l<<>"d; Discovery Bay
Alj'ea: T e request to open r g t-o -way, ary Rowe, As ~stant Pu ic
Wqrks Director, explained, i located neflr the Fqi mou1t Hill Road
wtlich rpns from State Road 2 to the Fairmount B~ach R~ d on Discovery
B~y, T e applicant, Howar eid, O. WIE property i:ry.. this Ilarea and. opening
t e rigt-of-way will prov'd access to his property. The Publ~c Works
D partm nt recommends appr v I of the applicatio~ subj~ct to three con-
d1tiO,.ns listedi on AttaChrtJ, etA. ,. ,. !
C9mmtss oner Bi!'own moved a1d Commissioner Dennison secJ ded the motion
t appr ve the I application,lt op~n rightiof-way s~ mit~~d by Howard
R id su ject tp the condit~o s l~sted by the Publ~c Works Department.
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FROM COUNTY DEPART
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Ihle
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492,
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Department
Stevens Street I ond, Ie: Gary Rowe
t at t is app ~cqtion is to open an a tt'ona section of
-way that is adjacent to previo~sly open$d riglt-of-way to allow
o four lots for aibuilding site in the Har isb'rg Plat in
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C,mmiss'oner Dennison mov~d to approve the applica ionlto open right-
o -way s submitted by Ta~ara Hathaway. Commissio er rown seconded
t e mot' on. I
R quest
are pro
smbstan
bl'ilt a
i the
D e to
p,tenti
~Irg: :;
o ympic
Brian
~l:~ ~~
A reeme ts with Compu-tecl~, Inc. for Auditor and I S
P tts as e t at a meet~ng e setup w~t ~m ea
t~e S.heriff and the Board '".to diSCU.SS the, computet
bt instrlled in the Sheri~f's offfce.! '
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cfmmiSSioner Brown moved to approve the Agreement
t provide the computer Pt......ograms :C""0 r the'... Jefferso... n
r cordi g functions. Commissioner Dennison second
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I PLANNING DEPARtMENT
oh Pre ise Sign Request: Different Strokes "Folk
g eser, app cant: rs. Bever y l.C g~eser was pre
t anson, ss~stant Planner, explained ,her reques
stgns for her business located at Ness ' ,Corner Rba
Mts. Dickgieser noted that the sign she ,is request
Drive is needed because her busin~ss is ,located in
Building which is situated in sucQ a way at the Rh
Chrner lintersection that i. f you ar.e trav.eling. from
DtiVe, by the time. you not.'ice the ,bUildi,.ng you ha...,v
w y. l1he other sign on Oak Bay Rqad and Paradise
u for Itwo years and Ms. Dickgieser is asking for
the address on the sign and put it back up under
D~e to the policy in the Tri Area Community Plan~
Jgnuar 28, 1985 Planning Department BU1;dness, Off
f r Chopsticks Restaurant) against off premise .stg
t e Board discussed the p<i>ssibility of an inform~t
gtneric sign that could srrve all ithe bUSinesses! i
T e grandfathering of the i sign on ,Oak Bay Road and
wt~ II h ve to be checked irilto furtq.er by the Planni
Panni g Department and Public Wo~ks Departments'w
the po~sibility of an informational sign at the N
s ctio and report back to the Board. I
for Road Closure; 'Bayshore Drive:
erty owners ~n t e area 0: ays lore Driv~
ard road for acceSs to their properties ev
new road for that !purpose 'several years Glg
rea of Oak Bay Road and Mats Mats Beach Ro
e r,portedthat there
hatl:..are using .this
n tough the County
. ayshore Drive is
d. I
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is.! Ian increased
nt nas had requests
cat the road or
oar' advised that
qu stion, they would
,
he substandard cortdition df this road ther
I for accidents. .:The Public Works Departm
er property ownerS in the area t'o either' v
it. After discussion of the problem, th$
t all of them are familiar with 'the roadii
inspect the road before making a d~cision.
nge put on Rhody
thel Ness' Corner
dy ,rive, Ness'
Chi' acum on Rhody
go: e past the drive-
ay i oad has been
erm' ssion to change
he 'randfather clause.
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Seel Minutes of
Pre' ise Sign request
s i' rural areas,
ona' or directional
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th area.
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Pari dise Bay Road
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g D partment. The
II e consulted on
ss' Corner inter-
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M~nu~es, Week of Fe
P ge 110:
1985
Warren St
Water rOJect:
r ceive estimates
o a water main fro
u;,.per oak.. Baypa. rk.
W,rks Department..
c st to the propert
Cfunty doing th.e pr
d it followed.
Trllere are 20 proper
tfue wells are low v
j,ct from some of t
Tfie Board.. direct. ed
t e water pipe curr
h s property, and t
ffnd out if they wo
I those indication
I ne can be put out
1 Applicati
I cense for t e i
s gned on the motio
D nnison.
Many of
the pro-
:Warren continued.
'to talk wi th Mr.
ntly ends on, to obt'ain permis
en to :talk with the :five homeo
ld be :interes~ed in ~articipat'
are qoth favorable,i then the .
for bid.
whose property
onlto ~ontinue across
er in the area to
g ,n the project.
st llation of the
ys er: The dance
wa approved and
b' Commissioner
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as al Development
m~' s i one'r Larry
m he private sector
dv sory Council by
er Pitts.
The meeti
Panning Commission
c,mmittee. The mee
w th the Planning D
t rview a candidate
Meeting Adjourned:
gwas Irecessed after' an interv'
membe~and negotiating withth
ingwqs reconvrened Tuesday aft
partmEint. All' Board' members w
for tl:}e Planni:ng Cpmmission.f
ith a potential
Gu ld Negotiating
al staff meeting
, t .
eresent, 0 ~n-
JEFFERSON COUNT
BOARD OF COMMIS
SEAL
,.
, Member
~,.t
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_L _ fA.,'
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n~', 494,
1m. /"" '.'
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