HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Digital Recording 11-03-202117:30:06 There's Kevin I guess that is this time to start the meeting right on time.
17:30:11 And I'm going to turn my camera off because I'm eating dinner.
17:30:14 Okay.
17:30:15 I'll jump back in a little bit. All right.
17:30:19 Do we have the recording on yet.
17:30:27 Okay,
17:30:30 call to order the number. I remember 30,021 meeting of the Jefferson County planking commission.
17:30:40 I'll start the meeting by a roll call. I call your name.
17:30:44 Say something.
17:30:45 Arlene.
17:30:48 You haven't here.
17:30:51 Cynthia
17:30:55 it yeah Say something.
17:31:03 Can't hear you.
17:31:14 I can see Cynthia I can't hear her.
17:31:14 We'll go on into, Matt.
17:31:18 This week you met.
17:31:20 There's Richard.
17:31:23 Who was that something that was sent me I couldn't hear you for a few minutes so okay hold my end but I couldn't hear you now.
17:31:32 Yeah, Matt. Matt squeak. Was that you
17:31:50 did you squeak Matt.
17:31:40 Matt said he was here. Let's see Lorna.
17:31:43 I'm here.
17:31:45 Goldie here.
17:31:49 Chris here.
17:31:54 Mike here. and Richards here I can see Matt now.
17:31:57 Okay.
17:32:00 So moving ahead. We have one set of meetings from October, 20 2021 to review and approve entertain a motion to approve the October, 20 2021 minutes.
17:32:15 Don't be shy.
17:32:26 so moved
17:32:21 by Kevin's. Now the second.
17:32:26 Ok, I will pull and say your vote you hear your name, Arlene.
17:32:34 I will pull and say your vote you hear your name, Arlene. See approve. I'm sorry, I've already said that approved, Kevin.
17:32:41 Cynthia approved map.
17:32:48 Now we can't hear you.
17:32:50 Approved.
17:32:52 Lorna approved LD approved. Chris approved.
17:33:00 Mike approve. Richard approves also then to the Planning Commission updates to have any updates and the commissioners,
17:33:11 Mike.
17:33:14 I've had a lot of people in Portland, contact me regarding more moratorium ordinance, 610 1121, and some interesting facts have been put at me regarding that.
17:33:30 Since the ordinance does depict all plants that were set prior to 1971 plat one and plat two in this area were done in 68 and 69.
17:33:45 But since there is a development agreement with the county.
17:33:51 The people that were speaking to me, were wanting to know if that exempt sport Ludlow master plan resort from this moratorium.
17:34:03 So, I don't know if there's anybody that could answer that question, David.
17:34:09 Yes it does, but not because of the development agreement the development agreement is strictly between port level associates in the county. When we establish the master plan
resort.
17:34:21 That basically certified all those lots of legal lots of record for development. So none of those plants within the boundary of the NPR, the moratorium does not apply to those.
17:34:33 So, say somebody buys a lot in the community, which as of today, somebody bought a lot, and was told that they couldn't build on it for a year, so it doesn't apply to them.
17:34:45 No. Okay, thank you very much I appreciate that. I'll get back to those guys about that. You're welcome.
17:34:52 Did you.
17:34:55 Um, I just wanted to report that that housing subcommittee met this morning and is continuing our work.
17:35:02 Thank you.
17:35:04 Any other Commissioner updates
17:35:10 will move ahead to the CD staff and director updates.
17:35:17 Summary of directors gathered for provide updates for us here and just want to do a sound check that you can hear me okay. Yes. Okay. I'm.
17:35:34 director Butler.
17:35:37 Brian Benjamin and I met with a Board of County Commissioners Monday afternoon. To give an update on five different projects that we have, and asked for the, the FCC input on
the proposed project scopes timelines and outreach plans.
17:35:56 And regarding five different project areas the first meeting that lot of record code revisions.
17:36:04 For the second the port habla Irondale urban growth area sub area plan.
17:36:10 The third affordable housing study and implementation strategies.
17:36:15 The fourth is our transit housing code revisions transit and housing meaning the short term rentals or hospitality establishments.
17:36:23 And then lastly, development regulations are working on for temporary homos facilities.
17:36:29 These come from our work plan that was
17:36:34 approved by the set forth by the board, may 24 of 2021 of this year, and we are providing updates and requested some input on on some timelines. I'm going to go through each
of the five briefly, and just discuss what we were asking the board and, and
17:36:54 some of the background of the first one they lot of record code revisions.
17:37:00 We were asking the board if they would support us, retaining consultants for this project.
17:37:08 We have some pros and cons the cons were that a consultant would lack local knowledge of our plants and county areas
17:37:20 staff would have to manage those consultants, the pros are that we have a record number of permits, again this year and we have limited staff reserves, resources, and that would
then reduce the impact on on our feet paying applicants and allow us to put
17:37:40 work towards jump on our applicants.
17:37:50 Planning Commission.
17:37:50 Also, be I think your audio is coming through.
17:37:54 It looks like he just muted.
17:37:56 Okay. And I just wanted to mention that director Butler is meeting with the public regularly to discuss how the interim ordinance may affect them, and is looking at, if, if
there are any additional needs for exemptions to cover more circumstances that
17:38:15 we hadn't considered.
17:38:17 And so that'll be ongoing.
17:38:19 The second project was the poor hand headlock Irondale urban growth area sub area plan.
17:38:25 As you know, we've got sewer planning going on in that urban growth area and Commissioner Eisenhower and the public works department are doing outreach with the community talking
about the connections in the first phase of the commercial areas of the
17:38:41 urban growth area.
17:38:43 So, we were considering that the timing of the summary of planning.
17:38:50 In regard to our original work plan timing and having multiple planning projects in this area might not be beneficial. And so we were discussing the timing of the projects with
the board.
17:39:05 And as the Board of Commissioners to consider postponing work until the completion of the 2021 comprehensive plan and then that cycle, and the cons of that approach would be
reduces the input of from New UGA residents in planning, the pros would be that
17:39:26 reduces the confusion, from multiple outreach activities going on at the same time, the board was receptive to delaying the schedule of the UGA Siberia planning, so that outreach
efforts can be focused with a sewer project.
17:39:45 The third project we're working on and our work plan is the affordable housing study and implementation strategies.
17:39:56 We're looking at different regulatory revisions to our code, any barriers to affordable housing, looking at incentive programs and voluntary and innovative programs such as
alternate
17:40:12 alternate ownership models for property are also looking at stock plans for building plans to make implementation efficient.
17:40:30 We wanted to include some of these implementation strategies in the 2022 docket. So, next year's comprehensive plan that UDC amendment docket and asked the Board of Commissioners
that they would support three to six month addition to the time frame for
17:40:43 this work project to increase outreach to the community, community groups task forces housing providers and
17:40:54 go forward with some more inclusive participatory planning.
17:40:58 And I think that where it's going to come up a lot of this evening or through time now is participatory participatory planning, really creating a focus on reaching out to our
community groups, and getting some real thorough comments from our from our
17:41:16 public.
17:41:18 The board was supportive of that.
17:41:22 Extending some of the outreach, or timeframe for some more outreach and including those implementation strategies for next year's docket fourth item over the five updating the
short term rentals or transit rental code or looking at potential for updating
17:41:41 that we discussed with the board about revisions to accommodate these emerging hip camps or clamping opportunities, and how it, it kind of does two things that we want to analyze.
17:42:01 We've got a record number of applications for these kinds of transit rentals. And so we're concerned that it may be taking a lot of at us off of the long term housing supply.
17:42:19 And that could be a potential loss for workforce housing, but also those kinds of opportunities are promoting tourism.
17:42:22 And so, we're continuing to analyze that project for short term rentals.
17:42:32 And then last, we gave them an update on the topic for tonight and looking at development regulations for temporary, almost facilities, and we specifically were asking the board
for a extension on the timeframe of this project as well for some, some more
17:42:56 participatory planning.
17:42:57 So we brought to the board a request, and a recommendation about extending the interim ordinance that's in place now for an additional six months.
17:43:09 And this is in accordance with the Washington administrative code of extending interim ordinances we would also have another ordinance. Another interim ordinance and another
hearing, and I'll go into that more, more detail when we pick up this topic in
17:43:28 our regular agenda.
17:43:35 Let's see.
17:43:37 The last thing I was going to mention is from.
17:43:43 I'll be going into some of the consent agenda items momentarily. For some more explanation on those so at this point.
17:43:53 I'll ask any, so if there's any questions on this agenda item five eight of the Board of County Commissioners update, and then pass it to David.
17:44:09 Okay.
17:44:10 David did you have a staff update on SME that that we need to cover.
17:44:18 Yeah. So, yesterday I said off the final documents required for ecologies consistency review that is required before we come back to the Planning Commission for final deliberations
and recommendation.
17:44:33 So, hopefully she doesn't need anything else I sent off the first batch, the second week of October, she sent me an email. Two weeks later that she needed for more documents,
I provided those and set those off yesterday so we're hopeful that in 30 days
17:44:56 we'll have comments back from ecology, we're anxious or interested to see what kind of comments, they will provide us.
17:45:04 And, and we will share those with you at that time. And also, we will have to make any changes that they asked us to make to revise the draft. And once we do that, we can bring
it back to the Planning Commission and we can review those changes and make
17:45:23 your final deliberations so we're kind of in a waiting pattern for 30 days or so to see what the college he has to say about all the work we've done today, so stay tuned for
that.
17:45:44 Thank you David I'm gonna pick up then on agenda item five see the first item is the letter from Office of Financial Management. Regarding the FM population estimates, and the
results of the 2020 census data that they're still working on.
17:46:02 I just thought I provide a quick explanation on this item.
17:46:07 Our typical April 1 2021.
17:46:12 Population Estimates came out in June. There were some delays in obtaining the census data, and the preparation of the census data.
17:46:25 They're finding that the census data has got some complexities to it that the the data hasn't been prepared as as thoroughly as years past and so they're working on some revisions
to the by the products that the OFM creates from the census data is taking
17:46:41 a little bit more time. And so we're going to be seeing some information going out to agencies on November 30.
17:46:50 So I just wanted to outline that some of our population and demographic data is a little delayed this year. But then it's forthcoming. And though FM is asking agencies to review
that data.
17:47:08 And, and my review and I think believe it was in April.
17:47:12 I found that, what they were working up for our population estimates seemed reasonable. And so we'll have some, some information coming forthcoming from them.
17:47:24 That will help us out like the small area estimate program provides a population count for the urban growth area.
17:47:31 So those things will be coming forward.
17:47:33 There was another item in the agenda packet in his consent agenda that I'll just provide a few brief words on. And that was the information about the air installation compatible
use zones, from the US Naval Air Station that would be island.
17:47:51 This is a planning area that is not directly, including Jefferson County.
17:47:59 They're looking at compatibility zones and, and actually them potential zones, much like we did with our joint land you study with naval base kids out with kids out county Mason
County in Jefferson County.
17:48:12 A few years back.
17:48:14 For several years back in 2015.
17:48:18 I just wanted to point out that, although that planning effort, doesn't include Jefferson County as we all know the effects of the planning on Whidbey Island with the overflights
and the jet noise has been an issue in Jefferson County.
17:48:36 So part of the materials that is provided is a
17:48:51 naval air station would be Island noise complaint system. So if you have people in your communities that are wants you to discuss with you about the noise from the growlers
or overflight noise in general.
17:48:59 You can direct them to the fact that they have a noise complaint system.
17:49:04 It's not a way to complain about the Navy or complain about jets in general but it's a way to the Navy to track their compliance with FAA regulations and with this compatibility
planning that they're doing.
17:49:21 And that document that you have in your packet provides a telephone number and an email, where people can call if they're if they have issues with overflight noise.
17:49:33 So I just wanted to point that out for you.
17:49:36 So that concludes my staff updates.
17:49:40 I did want to mention that
17:49:45 the DCD can help assist with moderation during the public comment period.
17:49:51 We, we realized that sometimes we're getting into some back and forth in our comments between Planning Commission and the commenter and.
17:50:03 And we're not always capturing who's speaking so we're going to take a little bit, additional time and, and may interrupt at some point and ask, Where are you from what's your
name.
17:50:13 Can you spell that for us.
17:50:15 And, and also to take care that we're not entering into a dialogue during the public comment period, so that we, we are listening, and that we have equal access to the Planning
Commission and.
17:50:31 And so any assistance that we can provide we're here for.
17:50:35 Thank you.
17:50:36 Thank you drill,
17:50:39 which actually gets us the public comment period when I left looks, I didn't see the public.
17:51:02 We're rejoin the meeting is that changed at all.
17:50:52 I'm looking now at the participant list.
17:51:00 And I don't see
17:51:05 any members of the public online at this point.
17:51:12 If I'm wrong.
17:51:15 You can speak up.
17:51:20 Anybody wants to speak.
17:51:24 Okay hearing and we will close the public comment period, and move on with the agenda.
17:51:32 I neglected to to do our to have the agenda agenda.
17:51:38 And part of that was introverted and part of it was because we have consent agenda.
17:51:42 And as I understand the process for consent agenda, the commissioners can accept or reject an item, for example we have three items on the consent agenda.
17:51:55 If anybody wishes one or one or more of the items to be moved to the regular agenda. Please speak up.
17:52:08 P is there any, are there any concern, other concerns about the agenda.
17:52:13 Can I ask a clarifying question. Yes.
17:52:17 So normally we would go ahead and approve the regular agenda.
17:52:23 And then, my understanding of the consent agenda would be that, that would be a separate vote, you clarify that.
17:52:34 Yeah, I'm glad you asked. I didn't know like I said the agenda was so I looked it up.
17:52:41 And it was.
17:52:43 Well, to answer your question directly.
17:52:46 It says the chair takes the lead role at utilizing your consent agenda.
17:52:52 And then the chair decides which items should be placed in the consent agenda, the consent agenda can appear as part of the normal meeting agenda or qubit text separately.
17:53:01 The chair distributes the consent agenda and associated documents in time for the board review them at the beginning of the meeting board chair so members if any of the consent
agenda items should be moved to the regular discussion items.
17:53:16 So that's that's what I learned.
17:53:19 Yeah, they kind of sprung that on us. I don't know if our new director realized that we haven't utilized consensual agenda before.
17:53:29 Thank you so I think I understand that initial process of setting the agenda. That would include a possible vote to move a consent agenda item to a separate, or to the regular
agenda and then.
17:53:48 Otherwise, we still vote on the consent agenda as a separate matter.
17:53:54 We don't actually vote.
17:53:55 It's matter of accepting as a full body. If anybody object to having it be the consent agenda, then the item will be moved.
17:54:10 So, so when I watch the Board of County Commissioner. I would like to get some further clarification on this because I spent a lot of time watching county commissioner meetings
and they didn't consent agenda agenda is that they do vote on the consent
17:54:26 as a separate manner. So, I would like to call for future new
17:54:36 rule. Yes, I can provide some feedback on that we would not likely include decisions in this consent agenda.
17:54:45 We're using this as a way to provide you with information and background. That'll be helpful to you, and the action is just to accept it, and receive it.
17:54:57 And so, we, we put this in the format of a consent agenda to provide you background on items. If there's something in particular that needs to be discussed further, and perhaps
by my explanation of a couple of them I preempted that discussion.
17:55:15 Then they could be discussed further, but it's a way for DC day to provide you with information background information. If we had a decision to be made as in the example of
the Board of County Commissioners, we're not putting those kinds of things in
17:55:32 our consent agenda is point, it's those would be part of our regular business. So it's something new for all of us and we'll continue on with better explanations as we go forward.
17:55:46 And as you have questions.
17:55:49 Okay, I can live with that for now thank you usually good just takes some getting used to.
17:55:54 So moving ahead with the agenda.
17:55:57 We're now the consent agenda item six, seven and eight.
17:56:02 So Joel.
17:56:06 Before we go further I've been raising my hand, I'd like to make sure that I can't see everybody, sorry, that's fine.
17:56:14 My understanding under Robert's Rules of Order if there is a consent agenda that as you stated, you can pull one out to go to the regular agenda but normally the consent agenda
is there is usually a motion made to approve the consent agenda.
17:56:34 And the reason it is made that way is that it identifies that we had reviewed or had dialogue regarding that.
17:56:42 And it should be part of the minutes of the Planning Commission. That is my understanding as well.
17:56:51 And I would agree.
17:56:53 Okay, so we should will vote on this then we'll let, I'll ask for a motion to approve the consent agenda. In today's agenda. Well, the question is is Joel going to speak to
each one of these items, or is it just to this point, not, we're going to just
17:57:09 either agree or not agree to this consent agenda.
17:57:13 That's my question to you, because we haven't had a review of the duck a bush part yet.
17:57:21 I think we approve think we want to vote to approve the consent agenda as presented, and the items will be presented today.
17:57:30 Or maybe presented at the next meeting in fact we had that happen, I believe, A couple meetings ago where the consent agenda trip trailed over to meetings.
17:57:41 My right David, do you remember, Joel.
17:57:46 Yes we will. We can pick them up again. And, yeah, you could take a vote on accepting the consent agenda. I am not going to speak any further on the consent agenda items.
17:58:01 I don't have a lot of background on the Dakota Bush, agenda item and it's there for your reading. I do have good news that we were granted a, a flood grant to do additional
planning in the flood zone for the Brandon area, so that is probably part of this
17:58:21 agenda item and can provide you with background by reading it and we can discuss it at another meeting. If you would like additional information.
17:58:32 So, thank Matt had his hand up. Okay.
17:58:39 I was just wondering if, since it was discussed if we should vote on accepting and receiving the consent agenda. And I'm wondering if.
17:58:49 And by that was before. Joe described that he would mostly be presenting about this at a subsequent meeting that we're just accepting and receiving some documentation is that
correct at this point.
17:58:58 Yes.
17:59:02 But, Cynthia, except that the consent agenda includes an item that says Consent Agenda Item x explanation which we have not yet had.
17:59:14 So I would move to remove the duck a bush River estuary project accept and receive to a subsequent meeting if we will not be getting an item explanation tonight.
17:59:29 I'd like to second that just so we can discuss that point.
17:59:34 Okay, we have a motion on the floor and a second to remove of item eight of the consent agenda.
17:59:41 I'm going to pull the commissioners and say, yeah, we don't care we have a discussion. I'm sorry. You're right. I'm jumping ahead of myself. Sorry. Alright, well, I'd like to
start off.
17:59:54 We did receive information on the duck and bush River estuary project.
18:00:00 And, in my view, that is a review that we were responsible to do that we did review it.
18:00:09 And it was part of our package so I don't think we need to pull that off. That's my view.
18:00:16 Yeah, I mean, just looking at the pictures, is that counts and there's a lot in there informationally. And, I mean, I didn't just look at the pictures but the diagrams.
18:00:34 early.
18:00:37 You know, it just was his, his process goes, we generally in the nonprofit universe, just have a proven agenda, and then move the end approve the consent agenda.
18:00:51 This is just a proving that you've received material it's my board approves that consent agenda that has the financials in it, they're not reviewing the financials at that point,
they've already done it.
18:01:03 They're just receiving it, our bylaws state, they have to be received by the board, and so they're receiving the document and it's approved. I do believe that we do not need
to remove it made from this, and I think we should approve the consent agenda.
18:01:20 As your chair.
18:01:23 Normally the mover gets to speak to their motion first but my argument was simply that because we got a, an ex verbal excellent explanation of the, of the Navy.
18:01:42 And we did not get a verbal explanation of the bush River estuary project. it was confusing.
18:01:51 So that was my reason for it seemed like they were handled differently, even though they both staple item for me.
18:01:59 For me, I'm willing to move on. I'm fine with with not removing it if you want to take it. I mean we have to devote now.
18:02:09 You can withdraw your emotion if you want to.
18:02:11 I can't, because it's been second one just zip right through here.
18:02:16 Is there additional discussion.
18:02:18 He will take a boat, Ali.
18:02:21 Could you stay but we're voting on the motion is to remove item, eight from the consent agenda guide the Dakota bush project or.
18:02:35 And no, no, Kevin. No.
18:02:40 Cynthia. Now, Matt.
18:02:44 No.
18:02:45 Lorna know LD know Chris.
18:02:51 Chris, I see you, I don't see you place your image.
18:02:57 Crystal Ellen. Sorry I couldn't get my thing to unmute. Oh, there you are good yes or no.
18:03:05 Yes, yes, yes. Okay, Mike.
18:03:19 Couldn't get that like, No, No, he says no, so the motion fails.
18:03:21 We do have to go ahead, though, and have a motion to approve.
18:03:27 And, and accept the received the consent agenda.
18:03:31 Because somebody saw move moved on in seconds.
18:03:36 Okay I'm going at once again pull the commissioners, I'll need. Yes, Kevin.
18:03:46 Yes.
18:03:49 Yeah.
18:03:50 Yes, ma'am.
18:03:53 Yes.
18:03:55 Lorna. Yes.
18:03:57 LD. Yes, Chris. Yes, Mike. Yes.
18:04:04 Richard says yes to all right.
18:04:09 It's our agenda and approval.
18:04:16 You all did you have any additional discussion you want to bring up.
18:04:23 No, I don't. Thank you. Jared.
18:04:27 Okay.
18:04:28 Chair yet.
18:04:32 So, I think we got a.
18:04:36 I may, it may be only me but I don't think we ever approved the full agenda.
18:04:44 And that's fine we can, I realized this is new and we're figuring it out and I think it'll be fine in the long run, so it's not a complaint, but I wanted to at the at the approval
of the entire agenda I wanted to ask to move the bylaws red line edits
18:05:02 to our next meeting. Because I have compared documents and I actually don't have a lot of questions I think most of its fine as well. But I have a legal question that I have
had been trying to get answered before we vote, and I would appreciate, another
18:05:23 two weeks to do that.
18:05:26 Anybody have any objection to that request.
18:05:31 I do not object to that request I was noting that there's some previous discussion we had on those proposed edits that we should probably review what we've discussed before
because we had a very some very clear opinions on that at the time.
18:05:50 Well we've just to clarify, we voted on some very specific changes and I don't have any issue with that it had to do with the election. So that part is actually fine.
18:06:05 What happened after that vote which was not September 1 but was August 5, was that the document went on to the to be reviewed by our attorney the county's attorney, and I have
some questions about those edits and I was going to do that research on my
18:06:28 own, but I haven't had a chance because I just was able to to review, compare the documents in the last couple days so if I could have some extra time to get an answer to my
question I'm probably going to be fine.
18:06:44 Voting next week but I just have to urban in two weeks but I would like to get an answer to my questions.
18:06:50 So we really don't have anything except what the. So, the attorney added, we have already made.
18:06:57 We already voted last year on the, on the election pieces. Yeah, I think we'll go ahead and move it off the agenda and Matt.
18:07:09 Yes, those those suggestions from the prosecutor's office or what I was referring to where there's kind of a provision about.
18:07:19 We're only going to recommend something that is quote on like lawful.
18:07:28 Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like assuming that like we're not lawyers you know we're citizen advisors and it was just a little.
18:07:35 It was kind of serious and it was just it was just strange language to me I, and we all discuss that at length so I think that we should probably review.
18:07:45 Kind of what happened at that point, before approaching it again.
18:07:48 Okay, well what we will.
18:08:04 I want to discuss this too much more because we're going to move it off the agenda. Mike, do you have a comment. Yeah, I think if there were edits in there by our county council
which I think are pertinent to this document. Maybe it would be advisable to have him
18:08:08 to have him here at our meeting and discuss those comments, and maybe put that first on the agenda so we can get that knocked out.
18:08:18 I personally don't think that's necessary I think we can get.
18:08:22 I, my personal understanding is that these bylaws are ours, and we have authority over them. And so, I, I did want to ask a question about the specific thing that Matt brought
up, but I don't know that we need him here for that.
18:08:44 I think you would offer clarification, and it would give us some good answers, man, I really want to cut this short maps, not an agenda items. What I was saying that instead
of inviting them to a meeting, maybe we could proactively reach out over email
18:08:56 and, and, and maybe that be easier on a schedule. Just to give them a heads up as to why we're thinking about this and talking about it.
18:09:05 Maybe he'd be able to send us some good advice via email,
18:09:10 what I was gonna do it and talk to our. I was going to start by talking to our director and go from there is where I was gonna go well, that'd be good Cynthia.
18:09:21 Okay, our next two meetings are pretty full one of them is a open meeting and then what next one after that is a decision making meeting so why don't we put this off until the
first meeting in December.
18:09:31 So have lots of time to reflect on it, and we won't be waited over a year and it already. I don't think it's a hurry.
18:09:40 Could this be added the agenda them for our birthday December.
18:09:43 That sounds great.
18:09:45 Thank you.
18:09:50 Nice and our daughter our last item staff report continued analysis and discussion of on temporary shelter facilities.
18:10:00 Yes, I'm going to share my screen.
18:10:08 And hello let if you could enable or let me know if that's not possible.
18:10:25 I've just made you the co host so you can share your screen.
18:10:28 Thank you. I see it up there now.
18:10:32 Let's see.
18:10:44 Okay, what you should be seeing now is a Gantt charts in Excel spreadsheet with a project schedule on it.
18:10:55 Let me know if that's not visible to you.
18:10:58 So as I mentioned, in our updates. We did go to the Board of County Commissioners on Monday, and requested additional time to work on the, the draft of the temporary housing
facilities, temporary shelter facilities ordinance.
18:11:19 And what we're looking at is a portrayal of what an additional six months might look like.
18:11:25 And with the red diamonds, those were our benchmarks that we were pushing very hard to achieve by the end of the year. At the end of the 12 months project period.
18:11:40 And
18:11:40 we were going to have a, and my language is language is going to be lie what is coming up here, we were going to have a public hearing at the Planning Commission November 17,
but we're going to postpone next week or next Planning Commission meetings,
18:11:58 public hearing on this topic.
18:12:01 And the goal is to get additional participation from the community and develop and perfect, our staff report and SEPA analysis and and options with additional conversations
tonight and an ongoing with the Planning Commission.
18:12:25 And then the and stretch out the project schedule with represented by the blue diamonds. So, we would be noticing in the paper comment period that would be an extended comment
period, and gathering public comments as we do outreach activities.
18:12:48 And then, in some point in February would be a target time.
18:12:54 It could be January or February as we tighten this down for a hearing at the Planning Commission.
18:13:00 So we would be moving this out a couple of months at the Planning Commission.
18:13:05 And then, scheduling a final ordinance adoption.
18:13:12 Sometime in May of next year. What this will allow us to do is to have a more extensive outreach program and better analysis.
18:13:20 What we have in place is an emergency ordinance, or interim ordinance that goes until December, 20, and we're going to have a replacement ordinance that will continue for six
months, and hearing at the board.
18:13:39 So, we will have the process, as it is continuing on those projects that have been permitted under the emergency ordinance will continue and kind of life as it is now will continue
until we have a final ordinances put into place with a more specific development
18:13:59 regulations.
18:14:05 I'm going to see.
18:14:14 I'm bringing up a slide that shows kind of our
18:14:24 current outreach efforts that we're going to be doing.
18:14:28 On November, 10 will be meeting with the housing Task Force and the joint oversight board with the city and county and presenting to them, what we're working on for an ordinance,
and asking them for information about the data that they have and what they're
18:14:47 seeing.
18:14:50 And then this November 17 is, it would be canceled the hearing at the Planning Commission.
18:15:02 So, are there any questions now about this change in schedule and extension of the interim ordinance.
18:15:16 I can't see.
18:15:19 Cynthia. Yeah best. So, I missed whether this has been approved or not. Is this the new schedule or we are working with this as our new schedule board was was receptive to this
idea.
18:15:35 On Monday afternoon.
18:15:39 And as they were with other questions that we were asking them for, they,
18:15:45 they did not take a vote in the afternoon business but they accepted our recommendation. So we're, we're going forward on developing a work plan, and more specific schedule.
18:16:01 And we'll bring bring forward to the board ordinance that they would adopt. And during regular business and then we'll schedule a public hearing on that new interim ordinance,
our schedule now is for December 13 to be a public hearing at the board to
18:16:23 reinstate the interim ordinance. Okay, Thank you.
18:16:33 Will show for today.
18:16:37 We're revisiting these questions that were brought forward.
18:16:49 In our previous meeting.
18:16:48 And
18:16:51 what I have is, is just to revisit these questions and get feedback from the Planning Commission.
18:16:58 I've been continuing research and outreach and doing a lot of catching up and learning. And I think at this point it would be helpful to me in my information development is
to hear back from you on how this is set with you for the last couple of weeks.
18:17:18 These questions about what to include in the ordinance, and how do we meet the needs of our public.
18:17:26 One update I can provide as a conversation with the kids at County Human Services representative who is the contact person for implementing their
18:17:39 what they call their for their short term housing facilities for single family for people wanting to set up a tiny home village or something to that effect.
18:17:54 I learned from this contact in kids have county that since the ordinance has been in place. I think it was the it was finalized in 2018.
18:18:04 They have not had any applications for temporary homeless facilities.
18:18:10 There is one that they're working on now. It's with the housing provider, I think.
18:18:17 From my understanding, it's, it's like our only cap in kits app County. They're doing planning for a tiny home village.
18:18:26 But my contact with this person and kids app was to ask how things work, to have single family residence hosting an RV on their property or hosting two tents on their property
as a specified in the kids have county code.
18:18:47 And she said that there has been no experience with that no one has ever applied.
18:18:52 So, we were talking, though also that there probably is very likely from her experience and from what I would see in Jefferson County that there are people who are doing this,
but just not interested in applying for permitted activity, due to cost or
18:19:14 whatever.
18:19:15 And so that might be something that we are looking at to have, you know, outreach in our results of coming up with an ordinance, is it going to be something that people will
want to participate in.
18:19:32 And as we've talked about in the past that participating in the program could mean that people are being permitted on properties and in very remote from services.
18:19:49 So are we are we losing track of people with that kind of of approach of, let's just have our neighbors, take care of neighbors, or perhaps that might be the solution for some
people who just don't want to go into any other kind of situation.
18:20:07 So that's an update from kids have County.
18:20:12 And what we found in their implementation.
18:20:15 So, as a, as a facilitator of discussion.
18:20:22 I thought we could go through these six questions.
18:20:28 And, and I might ask of you follow up questions to encourage dialogue of something to the effect of these four questions of what information or opinions are you hearing from
your communities.
18:20:46 What opposing information might be present or opinions that you might anticipate from what you're hearing.
18:20:55 How are we going to define the need in Jefferson County.
18:21:00 Are we recognizing in meeting the needs of all the various circumstances that people who are announced are finding themselves in with the work that we're doing.
18:21:14 And another prompting question might be hideaway recommendations.
18:21:20 Address addressing this need.
18:21:21 And so part of that discussion is embedded in in question one that we have before us. What, what should we be including in this ordinance, are we missing something or are we
trying to bite off something that really the county is not going to have any
18:21:37 success at regulating.
18:21:40 And so I'd like to start out with this first question as kind of a warm up here. And my goal is to try to get as much information as I can from you because I'm starting out
on this after, but working on housing for many years, maybe five years.
18:21:59 And so I'm a little behind on what the beat on the street is telling us. And so, I'm relying on this agenda item to get a lot of good information, and will will prompt you with
with questions that I might have.
18:22:15 If that is acceptable to the chair to proceed in that way.
18:22:20 Yes.
18:22:22 Cynthia.
18:22:25 I, I personally think that we need to have as many different kinds of solutions and accommodations as possible because you know there's never going to be a one size fit all
and it's all and people are different and their circumstances are different and
18:22:44 all that. But to answer your question about what I'm hearing on the streets.
18:22:51 I hear a lot of confusion we have people move into a location that sort of came out of nowhere. As far as the public's concerned. And we're doing an ordinance after the fact,
which I'm not even sure the public really understands right.
18:23:12 I, my sense from my conversations with my neighbors, is a deep concern for the problem.
18:23:22 But a lot of confusion about why it comes out of nowhere well at the same time, appreciating that we have to do something now.
18:23:31 I, I think it's a very difficult situation to be both responsive, in a timely manner, and also be able to think of all the possible solutions and right now I'm, I'm thinking
specifically of a location out on Kip George road.
18:23:56 Um, I think the public is a little stuns.
18:23:59 Some people and I include myself in this are wondering why we're not using that money inside of the city limits where we have more infrastructure, instead of picking this place
out in the middle of nowhere, where there is no infrastructure and trying
18:24:17 to create it quickly and spending an awful lot of money.
18:24:22 So yeah, I feel like there's a lot of public confusion, I feel like there's a lot of public compassion.
18:24:29 I think that the public wants action now.
18:24:33 But when somebody, sort of, I'm going to use a, an expression pulls the trigger, without a lot of public input, if they're left with a lot of weight How did that happen, why
that why that location that sort of thing so that's what I'm hearing.
18:24:55 Thank you. Can I ask a couple of clarifying questions quickly is the cape George road location the.
18:25:02 You mean the middle street location or is it different. I don't actually I thought it was so yes.
18:25:09 Okay. And I'm.
18:25:14 Yes, the confusion about the next coming out of nowhere or was that statement about people coming out of nowhere.
18:25:23 I not about the ordinance I don't think most people that I've talked to are following that there's going to be a sort of after the fact ordinance.
18:25:33 I think that's for the people that I've been talking to the, what's coming out of nowhere is the location and all of a sudden there's a bunch of people living on the location.
18:25:44 How did that happen.
18:25:46 Thank you.
18:25:47 Yeah.
18:25:50 I think this came up in our subcommittee meeting earlier and Cynthia and I think this is where we might have crossed wires I think I was talking about the no road site, which
Joe is that's what we're talking about right for mo road is the current site.
18:26:06 And so this is why I would that's why I was talking about Glen Cove, and the new annexation law and the importance of.
18:26:17 If there is any kind of talk like that of.
18:26:21 There's no state law mandating that equity be a part of any annexation to add to an urban area. And so having some public investment on the side of equity in that zone would
would kind of balance out.
18:26:39 Other things that are maybe high tax revenue generating like the mill next door.
18:26:45 I do see an advantage in like maintaining stuff in the public Commons, especially things that are.
18:26:52 And that is an area that I mean, if you. I mean I think that homeless people have generally gravitated to that zone, a lot of the area it's a sense of comfort of getting away.
18:27:06 There's a nice walking trail to Port Townsend.
18:27:11 I've seen you know I've just.
18:27:14 There's a lot of things about it that are huge improvement over cape George, from my perspective, I want to kiss up stuff and try to keep my comments short.
18:27:25 Um, I agree with Cynthia that it's really important to have lots of diversity of solutions.
18:27:31 And I think it's true that anybody who's a true advocate of people on the street or people houses people in need of some type of service there's, I believe it was.
18:27:46 Director Butler mentioned that there's a tremendous amount of people who are homeless who do not really need services they just need to take a shower and go to work.
18:27:56 At the same time there are people with lots of needs.
18:28:01 Some of them extremely critical. Some of them involving children something involving long term check ins and I think that every advocate would be supportive of some way of knowledge
in two things that in Jefferson County, we're very resilient, just like
18:28:16 I'm sure people enroll could set county that when a permit.
18:28:32 Is that resiliency of being able to just do your thing and and be okay and at the same time to balance that with a need to reach out and make sure people are safe and to make
sure that if their host is not going to connect them with services that they
18:28:37 have some connection with the services they need.
18:28:40 And we have just have great providers here locally who understand the diversity of local needs, and how serious many of them would be how sensitive many of them are, and how
it requires building and since the public trust with the client.
18:28:56 So I yeah I think that the knowledge is something that can be achieved we have that local knowledge and expertise.
18:29:04 And I do think it's important to think, from that point of view of making sure that people don't get lost, like you said, but also acknowledging that yes, you do have a rural
county, and there are already people in that rural county they're lost and need
18:29:17 to be connected to so let's, let's keep connecting with everyone in a way that respects the rights and the privacy and resiliency.
18:29:26 May I say something, Richard.
18:29:35 So I really liked the kit SAP ordinance, and born gorilla of services, and the variety the diversity of opportunities to have short term solutions to this challenge.
18:29:52 I think the chamber is aware on a daily basis of how the lack of housing in our community has affected all of our businesses and all of the working people who are homeless here.
18:30:07 And we've also looked at the other side of that because we have a problem with an increase in crime in our more urban parts of the county.
18:30:19 And we also have people and visitors with challenges with people who are living on the street.
18:30:27 We need to provide for those people to have a continuum of care. It isn't available, and I would share that yesterday.
18:30:39 We had a challenge at the chamber with someone who came in several times during the day, and clearly needed some help.
18:30:49 came in about five o'clock last night.
18:31:10 And really, we realized that, you know, we have to obtain further assistance in dealing with him. As it turns out he's well known to the police department to the navigator to
everyone in the community, to all of the public services that could help him.
18:31:13 And he's been thrown out of several shelters.
18:31:17 It's because we don't have everything we need in this county. There is a big lack in emergency mental health care, and having built that facility and built that program and
energy state, I realized that that key piece is missing that we can't help people
18:31:38 who really need some assistance more than a house or a place to live.
18:31:43 But that we need to provide them with a place to live that gentleman is still on the street, because they were they could not find a place to put him or give him any help.
18:31:54 And what's going to happen to him is enough people are going to file no trespassing orders against him, that he will ultimately end up in jail. And that's not the continuum
of care that he needs.
18:32:06 That's one example, one light example of one human being that's lost in our system.
18:32:13 And, and he's just one of many. So obviously this is something I'm really passionate about, but it's because every single day we deal with this at the chamber, whether it's
personally or through our businesses in so many different aspects.
18:32:30 And I think the more diverse the opportunities we have, the more incentive we have for people who are now doing things like RV camping and 10 Camping to come into a system to
provide people with continuum of care and not be fearful that for some reason
18:32:49 at some point in the future the city or the county is going to find them for something that they've been doing that may or may not be legal right now is going to make a real
difference, and certainly the education of the public.
18:33:05 Before you start implementing anything is going to be mission critical to success.
18:33:11 So, I'm hearing some good information regarding our ordinance that diversity of approaches is going to be something we want to achieve.
18:33:23 Is it safe to say Arlene there. It's difficult to navigate the services that are available, it's virtually impossible to do that in the city navigator is one person who can
help is he's called into a situation, but is as collaborative as all of our agencies
18:33:44 are trying to be there isn't a clear path through that system, and and the continuum, isn't there is something our ordinance could address in some part, other than providing
a menu of options, or is this an ID, an issue that we can identify during our
18:34:08 research to have someone to help with being the navigator for people.
18:34:15 It may be a matter of having a deeper navigator role in the community that may be there's more than one person with that skill and ability maybe there is a larger group that
can interact maybe there is some staffing and other agencies like only cap that
18:34:35 could be expanded to enhance their ability to provide those services on an ongoing basis to more people.
18:34:44 Thank you.
18:34:48 Yes.
18:34:48 Yeah, this is, we talked about it at our housing meeting this morning.
18:34:56 Down here in quill seen.
18:35:00 One of the most contentious things that has been going on is, is the port throwing out the liver boards. I have one of them living in my barn. And we've always put on our farm
we've always housed at least two people.
18:35:15 And I think more farms can do that, maybe with a little help to put up shelters or something but you know we we kind of how we can take the people who aren't so mentally ill,
and maybe get them housed and out of the off the streets.
18:35:44 First, but the I. I'd like to see the, the planning.
18:35:41 The DCD put a little pressure on the port to not throw the liver boards out in both I think they've cut down on the ones in in Port Townsend to.
18:35:53 I was on the Planning Commission in on Bainbridge Island 30 years ago when they did the same thing and it put. When they told people that couldn't live aboard their boats.
18:36:05 It put them in the woods and it just made the problem worse.
18:36:09 But the other thing that I, I would like to see us have is a central kind of a clearing area, like a helpline place where, where maybe connected with a food bank or something
where people can list jobs that they need or housing or temporary housing and
18:36:30 food or even a place where people can go in to get out of the rain because along with throwing live boards and things out of the ports. It makes it so that the public can't
use the bathrooms they've closed.
18:36:47 They for a while, close the bathrooms down and, you know, crossing does have a lot of properties with water problems and a lot of people in town dependent on the public bathrooms
for showers.
18:37:03 And so I think that's one of the areas that would be a simple fix was to allow a certain percentage of people to live on their boats as long as their boats are sinking at the
docks.
18:37:17 So, because that is public land it belongs. It's like it belongs to all of us, they've, they've given away the RV areas in the public beach in quill seen to the, to the oyster
company, they're talking about removing the marina completely and putting in
18:37:41 a double or triple wide boat ramp so people can get their recreational boats in but mostly it's so that the moisture company can have more room to, to take their things in and
out so there has to be a happy medium the public needs access to their beaches,
18:38:00 the public.
18:38:04 you know, lots of, it's not just indigents who live on boats.
18:38:11 You know, so that i think that that that put quite a few people on the streets and quilting, and it, it put people on the streets in Port Townsend, and years ago it put people
on the streets and kids have County.
18:38:27 And so, that's something we need to look at.
18:38:33 Okay, Chris Could you give me any kind of a ballpark figure of what this population that would be displaced is on the number of people who are living leaderboards.
18:38:45 Yeah, well, you know, there's not a lot of there weren't a lot of them and krill seen the one who's living on on my farm has, he's an awesome worker. He's 3031.
18:39:00 He's living on a fixer upper boat that he was restoring.
18:39:05 He's, he's just blossomed and grown since he's had a place to live because
18:39:15 I've given him the names of all kinds of people who need our jobs and he's, he's working full time so you know if if the people, if the not mentally ill people have a support
system, I think they'll thrive.
18:39:30 And the other thing that I'd like to mention about cool scene is with all of our waterfront you know the full steam Bay the coil de ba ba.
18:39:39 You know goes out to port Ludlow lots and lots of people have summer homes, and they all have little guest houses, and if it could be put out there that people who could live
in these kind of guest houses and things as and be caretakers or something like
18:39:59 that.
18:40:02 Instead of, you know, legislating them out there, half the people I know who have summer homes are only there, a few weeks a year.
18:40:13 And
18:40:13 so that's that's another housing potential that could be looked at.
18:40:20 So that's, and then the farms, the farms are all willing to have housing and all do have housing.
18:40:30 So that's just a clarifying question about farms are our farms, providing housing, other than you, of course have mentioned that you are.
18:40:44 And you receive some labor, or is it farm worker housing or is that the farms are available with room, but there's some, there's some of each some appointments.
18:40:56 We have a room in our barn.
18:41:02 And we it has a shower and things, and it's.
18:41:06 We've had people living there who are starting over and, and they help with horse chores. We also board horses and things, and the I know that a dairy farm next to me has a
number of people, you know, living in.
18:41:23 I don't know if they where they live, but I think they have some little tiny homes or something.
18:41:28 But I think that farms need workers, and people need housing, and within the building envelopes that are allowed on the farms if there can be some, some small living spaces,
we can help give people a leg up.
18:41:52 And, and I think that a lot of times, working on farms people get food, we provide food to the people who live on our farm and.
18:42:04 And I pay them for for jobs that they do around the farm and I know the other farms do too. So I think that's.
18:42:15 But I think that also the farms and the, the summer community, there's opportunities for quite a few houses are for housing, quite a few people if you know they're not going
to be the mentally ill ones but the dependable, people I mean what's the price
18:42:36 of housing going up as much as it is I don't know how any young person without some generational wealth is going to buy a place to live.
18:42:45 So,
18:42:49 that's my thought is, and it connects people to it connects you know a young person who's just through high school or college who wants to work with a wealthier person who needs
a place to be looked after and maybe some caretaking done on their lawn or
18:43:08 like carpentry or something, it can be a good connection.
18:43:15 So we'll just do I'm didn't tell me if I'm interjecting too much but just for sake of discussion.
18:43:22 I'm picking up that in our ordinance, we might look at more clarity and farmworker housing, and what would be allowed and connecting it to programmatically to services, and
then I also picking up on equity issues from what Matt was talking about with
18:43:42 Glen Cove annexation and equity issues what Chris was talking about with the little boards and some with a water issues. Some needing services that they took advantage of it
with the public bathrooms and showers.
18:43:57 about, we might want to discuss that kind of facility to, and how we would permit those to be flexible warming shelter is a shower shelters.
18:44:11 Well, the, the other thing that you know Habitat for Humanity just popped up a lot in closing this between the Community Center and the community garden.
18:44:25 And I think there's eight or nine hookups there. And I think the plan is to build low income senior housing, I think there's eight or nine hookups there.
18:44:44 Tiny Homes, and where people can walk to services, and give older people, you know, a leg up and a place to live with in a pretty place close to amenities so you know that that
model can be used other places to.
18:44:56 Man, I'm going to come back to you I have two invisible commissioners electrical first here but they, they have any thoughts, Lorna,
18:45:07 or do you have anything you want to add.
18:45:14 Kevin you still with us. Laura's back here she is. Yeah, I could unmute myself I'm still in the car but I'm very, you know I'm really enjoying this conversation and people who
know this subject a lot better than me.
18:45:27 So I don't really have anything to add.
18:45:31 Except you know I do think that there are a lot of people who are camping in other people's driveways in our bees, and it's happening and we should just, you know, allow that
as a permitted use I think.
18:45:51 Thank you, Kevin you with us. Yeah, you know, the only thing that I would add that Joel I think we need to strongly consider or find a way to utilize our boarding house slash
bunkhouse kind of accommodations in the county where we get multiple heads and
18:46:12 beds and the single unit with a single kitchen common to multiple rooms and and occupants.
18:46:22 I think that's a good idea to
18:46:26 LD, I get the math gum in any thoughts.
18:46:31 Oh yeah, I'm gonna actually agree with Chris on this number one it's not the ports charter to take care of the homeless through the billboards and the port had closed their
bathrooms because they were spending thousands of dollars a year on the damage
18:46:51 it was being done, because the bathrooms were being trashed all the time, and I do agree that we need to provide some kind of bathroom and shower facility somewhere but.
18:47:04 Excuse me.
18:47:05 It's really hard for a port patron that's paying a significant amount of money to not have a bathroom that they can use because somebody else has come in and trash them.
18:47:18 Also, keeping in mind that the port has a percentage of live aboard. Use available under the state law, and so the ports actually are controlled by the state for living boards
and there is a tremendous amount of problem with and, you know, again, I can
18:47:37 get in trouble for this but for lower people by pretty much junk boats come into a port, they live there, they abandon the boat and then the port is is burdened with the cost
of disposing of the book which costs thousands of dollars.
18:47:54 And so the the ports are going to be, look at this really hard because they get stuck all the time that you know bandwidth these abandoned boats and.
18:48:06 And I mean it's tough but the other thing I did want to comment on on number one.
18:48:11 Nobody ever seems to comment about the property rights of owners around the area were homeless
18:48:22 encampments are and what the property owners rights are and I know that's that's really politically incorrect to say but I think that something needs to be mentioned about you
know what you know if if I spent $400,000 on a house in town and somebody,
18:48:41 and all at once there's a homeless encampment going next door.
18:48:45 I'm not going to be a happy camper and how do we how do we make sure that we're not infringing on the rights of our taxpayers, when we, when we land.
18:48:57 A an encampment in a residential area where, where there's never been anything like that or maybe there's not even any multifamily us or very little of it and so it's it's it's
a tough, tough thing to have to try to figure out what the right method to
18:49:16 deal with this is but but we have to be careful of both the people that are paying the taxes support this. And the people that we're trying to help and support.
18:49:26 That's all.
18:49:32 net.
18:49:32 Yeah, to that last point that's a. It's been a flashpoint in statewide politics, about, neighbors, with larger campus and it flared up in Puyallup, and that's probably a source
I mean it probably associated with the overall situation that we're dealing
18:49:50 with now as reflected in state was from that situation or related to it.
18:49:54 And what they added was just additional provisions for checking with the community.
18:50:08 It took them a long time but it's something to look at you know if we look at kids out for the multi pronged solution angle, we can look at qL up for the community consultation
angle.
18:50:14 And that's another reason why I think know Redis probably one of the best places because of the neighborhood and it's just, and you know I mean I live near that neighborhood,
but I also think that there's a really strong.
18:50:27 Like I brought up boarding houses and I brought up trying to come up with ways to accommodate the unprintable people, you know there's a certain percentage of people that are
really hard to rent to, if we had places for them, you know, like, and even
18:50:41 if they could be hardcore enough to handle the person that Arlene brought up, you know, to really bring in somebody with, you know, like a could be a boarding house is tough,
where they can handle situations and make people feel safe, you know when their
18:50:58 neighbors not safe. So I really originally raised my hand to add to Chris's point that everything that Chris brought up.
18:51:06 I would argue, I'm sure it's debatable I would argue, including the mortgage live boards, is everything she brought up is connected to that use of that zone.
18:51:19 And I think there's a real angle to looking at each particular zone just like we're doing on the housing subcommittee and dovetailing our solutions with that use in correspondence
with our comprehensive plan and I think that is another way to reduce setting
18:51:38 kind of neighbor to neighbor fiction because well there's housing happening on a farm it's formulated there's housing happening on a, you know, working Forest Park so it's forest
related.
18:51:50 If it's connected to the use that can give us some additional, including.
18:52:00 I would, I mean I think live, you know I moved here there's tons of little bit more, I mean I just think living boards is like part of our community and it's like, and as well
as you know people that that need special housing as part of our community
18:52:10 in Port Townsend is historically, a crazy town, and there's crazy people that need to be taken care of and you try not to get kidnapped and, you know, I mean we need to remember
that, there's still that element you know no matter how many million dollar
18:52:26 houses, no matter how many houses become like million dollar vacation homes we still have, it's still as port towns is still Jefferson County and, and hopefully it will still
have that earthy element to it, and.
18:52:42 So, thanks man make one more quick quick interjection again, I'm for discussion purposes I'm hearing in a sense that other types of housing like the missing middle of affordable
housing is part of this temporary facility solution.
18:53:00 And if someone in the subsequent discussion could articulate that that might be helpful.
18:53:09 You may want to pick that up.
18:53:14 I can try.
18:53:17 I think Mac beat you to the punch Chris, I just wanted to say quickly that I feel like the housing market is at a state of crisis now or nothing is not interrelated.
18:53:29 Everything is related.
18:53:32 There's it just every kind of situation it's just extremely fluid, and the only thing that's consistent is, if you lose your housing you're most likely on the street, Unless
you're rich.
18:53:46 Yeah, well I wanted to relay, I kind of a humorous incident that when this was happening on Bainbridge, there was a city council meeting and this lady stood up and said, I do
not want to sit in my million dollar house and she pointed to a man in the audience
18:54:06 and see his derelict boat. And the man stood up and said, I do not want to see, to sit in my derelict boat and see her ostentatious on environmental house.
18:54:18 You know, so.
18:54:21 Yeah, he got a standing ovation but my point is, you know, we have to, that is stuck with me because we're all in this together, and the people with money can help those with
not out so much, get a leg up, and we shouldn't have restrictions that that
18:54:41 don't allow that to happen. And, and I I listened to LD I happen to know the the liver boards and cool scene who got thrown out, and they're all responsible people, but the
bathrooms are a problem, and they're they're more of a problem in Port Townsend,
18:55:02 but people in Port Townsend, use them for showers if a homeless person is trying to go to a job interview. Where are they going to clean up if they can't have a public bathrooms
somewhere so, which it says something we just have to keep working on.
18:55:22 Really.
18:55:25 So I just want to address the missing middle question that Jopling the table because it's really the key to what's going on and. And I have to say that I agree that one of the
biggest problems we have is what LD put on the table and and that is that,
18:55:43 you know, as kind hearted and generous as many people in Jefferson County are that there are a lot of people who moved here to get away from what they didn't want to have near
them in other places, and really feel very strongly about their property rights
18:56:00 and the neighborhood that they bought into, and that is not something we can ever forget in what we're doing.
18:56:08 Every day, in our communities. There are people leaving their jobs, good jobs that support their families that they've had for a long time, because they can't live here anymore
because the cost of renting, even if you can find a place is so high, and
18:56:26 that loss of labor in a market that starving for labor is paramount in terms of challenges that our communities having with driving sales tax and revenue and growth and business,
it is.
18:56:44 It's what's creating more problems at the bottom, because those people now have no place to live, they have jobs, they have kids in school, they have lives just like everybody
here does.
18:56:57 And they no longer have the ability to house, their family, that they're trying to support, and that missing middle is driving the bottom up, and driving people into places
where they need much more care on many more levels than they would have if they
18:57:12 just had a place to live. And so, habitat is a small organization doing a fabulous job
18:57:23 habitat is the biggest builder of houses in the United States.
18:57:38 Mike. What's this, like, yeah, Yeah.
18:57:37 The draft or dance, I think addresses a significant amount of this but I think, Arlene keyed on something important.
18:57:47 And I may be right may be wrong I don't know but it seems to me that there's two different focus, is that we're dealing with here.
18:57:57 We're dealing with people who don't have homes and need a home that needs affordable home, and there needs to be something done about that. But on the other hand we have a mental
health crisis with people that are in Thrall all thrown in that category.
18:58:15 And we don't have the services to help protect those individuals to get them off the street to give them the care that they need.
18:58:24 And I'm also throwing this in here that would include drug addicts not just you know people who are psychotic of some sort.
18:58:33 So until we can get that taken care of, we're still going to have a problem with people, meandering around the neighborhoods.
18:58:41 But I think the focus that we've come up in the ordinance about building the temporary homes for people to get back on their feet is fine, but we don't have the next layer.
18:59:01 Well, we don't have developers in this county interested in building apartment complexes where there's like studio apartments.
18:59:06 And I think that that is one of the hindrances that we have in this whole process is.
18:59:13 There's not an interest to build. I was reading an article in The New York Times A while back, where this individual in New York City has made a phenomenal amount of money over
the last 20 years building affordable housing in New York City and section
18:59:30 eight housing they do get support, but nobody else was taking this on and once they found the other builders found in the community that he was successful at this, they started
doing the same thing.
18:59:43 developments apartments, where a person who might be a physician a police officer was living in there but the person who was just getting back on their feet had a studio apartment
in there so there was sex partial section eight housing in there.
19:00:03 So think about getting somebody in this community just kickstart this and getting some housing built for these individuals, because everything in the ordinance that we're coming
up with is considered temporary.
19:00:18 And, oh yeah, you've been here six months, they can't be here any longer. And there's that fairly reasonable that individual.
19:00:25 And if you can still live in one of those wonderful little cottages that they're putting together with the community sources right in that area. I think you're well off.
19:00:36 But again, we have to start seriously thinking about the county, the state, taking on the responsibility of the mental health issues of people, because you can't treat them
like you can Mike Nelson, who just doesn't have a job, and I was looking for a
19:00:51 job can work in need some housing, two different kinds of people.
19:00:57 you're dealing with health care issues, versus homelessness.
19:01:03 Like, LD Jagger comment.
19:01:06 I just wanted to say, one of the things, unfortunately, I think one of the things we're seeing is Port Townsend and for a long time the city Port Townsend took a pretty hard
stance against building multifamily housing.
19:01:21 There was a there was a significant movement to keep it out of Port towns and the first, I got, I got to Port Townsend in 1994 and for about the first 10 years I was here, I
worked very hard with the city trying to get some, some multifamily housing built
19:01:43 apartment complexes I mean I had built a ton of apartments before I ever came to Port Townsend, and I beat my head against the wall. Every time trying to work with Port Townsend
because they just didn't want it in Port Townsend, and now it's come back
19:02:00 to bite them in the butt, because now we have no affordable housing for the service industry. So, so they really effectively kind of screwed themselves and you can't do portable
multifamily housing, until we have a sewer system out and headlock because
19:02:16 it's just too hard to try to do septic for multifamily housing. So, it had to be in Port Townsend but they just wouldn't accept it. So, you know, unfortunately, that's the environment
that we're having to work with.
19:02:31 I agree with you, Mike.
19:02:35 Kevin, um, one of the things be, you know, thinking about that is the time to plan for that is now when the suit is going to be coming in and a few years that multifamily housing.
19:02:46 One of the things I'd like Joel to think about is ways to incentivize when we're talking about this so that when the time comes, and that sewers in by Gosh, we're going to have
people lining up to build some of that multifamily housing, because that is
19:03:02 the only way we're going to get back on top of this issue of that middle that we're talking about the workforce housing that we're talking about, which then frees up all that
lower echelon of housing that gets snapped up by people with more resources,
19:03:16 and then puts those people at the lower end completely out on the street.
19:03:21 There is a 36 unit, two bedroom two bath apartment complex. That's very close to submitting building permits they've gone through land use, full engineering and architectural
review that's going to be built on radio street, and it'll be the first one
19:03:35 in decades,
19:03:40 Matt.
19:03:43 Yeah, I just wanted to build on what others are saying, Joel I yeah, Kevin basically just said it but I wanted to encourage you all when you're talking about the sewer to like
maybe the official.
19:03:56 Try area sub area plan isn't going but I mean really, to get it going sooner rather than later I think is helpful in the tri area people are not necessarily the most connected
with public policy out there and they really don't know what to expect and
19:04:13 so the sooner we can get the wheels turning to tell everybody Listen, we're gonna ask you to design a city or like or modify the plans for this, this forthcoming urban area.
19:04:26 I think it's gonna be really helpful get people thinking about that sooner rather than later and it would get people excited about the reasons for having a sewer.
19:04:34 Even if that's the priority. The other thing I wanted to bring up was Arlene mentioned something that really struck me.
19:04:45 She meant and and this relates to some of the other stuff that I've done with regards to volunteering around law enforcement type activities where the issue of public trust
comes up, and the issue of public trust is just so critical for having positive
19:05:03 interactions with people who are causing trouble or who are in trouble.
19:05:08 And so, What I liked about a lot of these decentralized.
19:05:12 What Arlene was talking about with regard to the some of the kids have ideas is just reducing the fear surrounding somebody wanting to do some kind of neighbor to neighbor support,
like they don't have to be afraid that they're doing that, like, they
19:05:30 can more easily call for support, they can have it be no big deal that everybody knows that there's an RV in their driveway or whatever the deal is if they're worried about,
they can you know just to dispel that fear to make it no big deal to have somebody
19:05:44 from all the cap call to reduce that fear would lead to better public policy, over and over and over again.
19:05:52 Cydia.
19:05:57 Just another quick interjection here again for discussion purposes for the state of Washington doesn't let this provided for tax incentive for multi family but it's for communities
of 100,000 population and over.
19:06:11 And so that's something that we might add to a legislative agenda.
19:06:16 Also, just kind of want to throw out the question about your experience with inclusion Arizona.
19:06:37 Additional density could be provided. And we do have a basis for this in our plan real residential development of providing for bonus density criterion would be if you're providing
for affordable housing you could qualify for bonus density.
19:06:52 So we have some precedents, we might review on how we might add more incentive to make it more attractive.
19:06:59 But certainly that's something that we want to look at in our affordable housing work that we're doing.
19:07:08 Thank you.
19:07:12 Thank you, um, a couple things. What I agree with what Matt said about communicating with the headlock community at Port headlock community early and often about an opportunity
to participate in that planning process, because I agree that people don't
19:07:33 always understand the process and and how to participate.
19:07:39 Another point that I often make is, if a sewer would make affordable housing or towns and would have affordable housing, we have a sewer system that has capacity for 30,000
people we only have 10,000 people or so.
19:08:02 We have open land that is building open buildable land. So just having a sewer does not magically solve the affordability problem and especially in a place like Port Townsend
that is so attractive that no matter what you build, there is somebody who has
19:08:20 more cash than the person who works at a restaurant or a local entry level job to out bid a rental, a lease or a purchase.
19:08:39 So market rate housing is never going to solve affordability in Jefferson County because we are so attractive and we have people coming here
19:08:51 for with all kinds of agendas that the beauty. they think we have water.
19:08:59 You know the retirement piece, we're a fabulous community and people want part of it and who could blame them but I feel very strongly that we are never, I mean, the argument
is, oh, you know, using the economic model if we provide more units, then the
19:09:18 costs will go down but we have essentially endless demand in this county and I do not believe that market rate housing is going to solve the problem. So then how do we create
housing that is not market rate, and to Joel's question.
19:09:37 I, I actually had a confusion about that because my understanding is inclusion airy zoning is not necessarily the same thing as incentivizing a developer to include a certain
number of affordable units.
19:09:54 So you can answer that later I don't need you to answer that now but it seems like those things are distinct, although they could be both used but I actually have very strong
feelings about, you know, if I'm going to build a 40 unit apartment complex,
19:10:14 and I make some accommodation, I make some agreement with the city or the county to build 10% of those units which would be four units, that's not very much, but not very many
as affordable for a certain number of years, usually it's not in perpetuity.
19:10:36 Because we can't do it and in perpetuity so the.
19:10:40 So the developer gets that benefit without very much cost for units and 40 using my example, and they only have to keep them affordable whatever that the measure of that is
for 40 years or whatever the number of years is so again I would argue, that's
19:11:02 a very small. Give back for a developer who gets a lot back forever, they get they get the bonus data density forever but they only have to give the affordability for a period
of time generally so I have lots of feelings about that and I will conclude
19:11:25 there thank you, Kevin.
19:11:29 I'm one of the things to think about it and I understand that comment.
19:11:44 When I would counter is that, you know, the thing that made these 36 units that are going to be the first built in decades going in. It's none of it is, you know, section eight.
19:11:48 It's all, you know, market rate but the market that the builders going after is, you know, 100% affordable not 120 hundred and 50.
19:11:58 So they're going to be at a reasonable rate, and it was that the infrastructure was all there and available, specifically the stormwater. So if, if, you know, even though there's
plenty of land I know land in that same general area and worked with an
19:12:14 owner for who she worked for five years to try and work out a deal where the city would allow her to implement infrastructure over a period of time as opposed to all at once,
which killed the project for years and years and finally she just sold the land
19:12:28 and new developer may be coming in at some point, but it was the incentive ization that the storm water was being taken and handle and wasn't necessary to be developed right
there on the property so that's the kind of incentive that can bring in a market
19:12:43 driven developer who then sees, hey, I can build these, and I can then you know rent them at 1500 dollars a you two bedroom unit 1300 dollars a two bedroom unit and and it worked.
19:12:55 It was, you know, stormwater is one of those infrastructure things. So the sewer was there the waters there and and whatnot when we get out into the county.
19:13:04 I do think that when that sewer is there, and if we've got ways of incentivizing and assisting with the other big elephant in the room and infrastructure which is stormwater
won't get those developers in there who say that this can be built at a market
19:13:20 rate and, you know, we can start to alleviate and provide housing for that middle that will take the stress off of that lower end.
19:13:32 See,
19:13:38 do.
19:13:38 Just a quick quick comment. With regard to Kevin's example. I just am doing quick math in my head and if I'm making $15 an hour to make a in round numbers without an accounting
for taxes or anything like that that are taken out of my paycheck.
19:13:58 In round numbers without accounting for taxes or anything like that that are taken out of my paycheck. I have to work 100 hours to make 1500 dollars, and we already know that
if I make 1500 dollars I'm not going to bring home 1500 dollars and I have to
19:14:08 pay for electricity and I have to pay for water and all that sort of thing. So, if my if a full time job is 160 hours and I'm working more than half of those hours just to pay
for my rent.
19:14:28 That is not, that's, that's not what I call it football.
19:14:33 I think Kevin may be referring to a concept rather than a specific price. I'm referring to, ami ami ami for our area was around 1300 dollars when we were looking at this project
about a year, year and a half ago as we were starting it because he wasn't
19:14:47 trying to price it, you know, out of, out of reach $15 an hour minimum wage and I agree, a 1500 dollar unit for sonar and $15 an hour isn't quite there, but there's people making
more than that that don't have a place to live, and we start to saturate
19:15:03 I think we start to saturate a supply of housing, that, you know, people can can afford and move into it then frees up some of the, you know, thousand dollar not many people
are paying $900,000 for a room in a house right now for crying out loud.
19:15:20 You know I think 1314 1500 dollars for a two bedroom two bath apartment is, is, you know, a workforce housing unit.
19:15:32 especially if you can build equity with it.
19:15:38 Which is why I really love what Joe said about alternative methods of ownership I think that's part of the solution to the market problems that we're facing alternative ownership,
I think we're all really set up locally for different types of ownership
19:15:51 solutions and, and people in the realty world have been working on that for quite a while, and they might have something to share with us
19:16:03 your any.
19:16:06 Do you want to add or somebody else.
19:16:09 Yeah, maybe at this time we can
19:16:12 look at more of a summary discussion and go back through our questions and kind of play devil's advocate with ourselves, thinking, primarily about the ordinance for temporary
facilities, and I really appreciate the discussion on the middle missing middle
19:16:31 housing, and how that affects the number of people we're trying to serve at any point in time with temporary homeless, but let's finish out by thinking back to the draft ordinance,
and directions we should go.
19:16:51 I'm hearing some basic things have more options is going to serve our population better.
19:16:59 I'm looking at question number two what level of accommodations, should we be planning for is there, like the comment that Cynthia made that we're never going to have enough
market rate housing to to lower the cost it's just going to be always going to
19:17:17 be a high cost housing.
19:17:21 Is there a point where we. Is there a level that we should be shooting for for meeting the house needs.
19:17:32 By making sure that we have removed the barriers and have a broad enough allowance to create temporary facilities or allow people on their own properties to house neighbors.
19:17:48 What are your thoughts about question two, and then I'm going to go through all of these really quickly. Now, as we summarize, we have talked about appropriate balance to be
sought between these crater allowances and what about neighbors.
19:18:03 I think the solutions that we've brought to the Planning Commission thus far has been tightening down on letting the site, determine what setbacks and buffering, a screening
should look like.
19:18:17 But perhaps you have some additional comments on how to avoid nuisance impacts to neighboring properties, how, if we're going to go too far with one idea, that may not be compatible
and.
19:18:34 And I think Question four or five and six are probably more general and and not part of our, our summarizing discussion next here.
19:18:47 Except for six, you know, plays into what do we want to accomplish with this ordinance, and
19:18:55 that is how about we we talk about defining the need and and how our recommendations for this ordinance would meet that need.
19:19:09 As we summarize what we've discussed, and then feel free to bring up any opposing opinions or playing devil's advocate of, wait a minute we're going to run into creating another
problem if we allow this certain thing to happen.
19:19:25 And so, Mr Chair, if, If that sounds good to you we can kind of run through a summary discussion, kind of looking at our ordinance itself, how to address the need and then maybe
throw in some red flags that we might encounter or want to investigate further.
19:19:50 Well, we have 11 minutes left.
19:20:08 Until at 730, so we can have some succinct comments Mike. Yeah.
19:19:59 Thank you for that.
19:20:02 I don't have the audience in front of me but having ready to a couple of times. I personally think that you've done a good job with coming up with and I don't remember the terminology,
temporary housing.
19:20:17 And I thought, revisiting that to where I an area can renew that, as opposed to every six months on an annual basis.
19:20:27 And you may want to think more about permanency on the temporary housing, and I like the concept of the churches and the not for profits, putting their properties to use for
that.
19:20:43 And I throw something very controversial out here probably churches, use public services, and they don't pay any property tax.
19:20:55 And I think that this is a good way for them to not just give back to the community. But back to the needy, which is the, I guess the parochial view point of most of these religions.
19:21:09 So I think that they're focused, they've been doing a good job with that, I like that idea and concept.
19:21:16 And I'd like to just see us implement this to see how it works because I think we've got a really good to hear
19:21:26 that we put together to get this, and you know everybody's going to be, not everybody. Many people will be critics of this people aren't going to be happy because it's too close
to their commercial, residential property.
19:21:38 They don't like the rules that the, the temporary unit has for them.
19:21:45 And they may not like the way it's being influenced by the people that live in the neighborhood.
19:21:52 So that's the negative side but on the positive side, and having dealt with some of these folks.
19:22:00 And what I've seen lately. These tiny housing units are giving somebody
19:22:08 a way to create more confidence for themselves and move on.
19:22:12 But we may have to look at the long term that it's not just going to be a temporary house for somebody maybe the where they live the rest of their life.
19:22:22 And we might want to take a look at that. And I was also thinking right across from the county courthouse.
19:22:28 There's a park there that might be a good place for one of these also.
19:22:33 So, and I mean I'm quite serious about that, because government can observe and monitor and watch to see how this works.
19:22:43 I know the people in the neighborhood might not care much for that but we have to start somewhere.
19:22:50 So thank you.
19:22:53 Anybody have any other focused closing comments
19:22:59 now.
19:23:04 Yes, just to summarize a couple thoughts related to these final questions.
19:23:12 I think that an increased diversification, the types of solutions provided would reduce pressure on the large solutions.
19:23:27 I think in our county we we generally prefer something more decentralized.
19:23:34 I know like at my local corner store at four corners. There was a mile long petition when they were worried about a facility going in at the bus depot.
19:23:45 But at the same time.
19:23:47 You know, they're very welcoming to homeless people who happen to drift through and hitchhike out of that parking lot and, you know, I think it's definitely like part of the
neighborhood charm to have our visa in the yard.
19:24:02 I don't think anybody's.
19:24:05 So, diversity is good and it reduces that overall pressure which I think is a lot of the pressure on the large facilities which I think is what creates the most public concern,
decreasing fear among people who need services is really important so I think
19:24:25 lots of solutions could create scenarios where fear of public services could be reduced.
19:24:32 And at the same time to increase the ability for people to access services, it's just really tricky to reach out that way. And I think that building trust is the way to do that
and that can be done through the policy partially file to thoughts.
19:24:47 We should plan at the same time for worst case scenarios,
19:24:53 such as a place to send people who really are the most difficult or having the most trouble.
19:24:59 Like a halfway house kind of thing like a boarding house plus services. And we also should plan for the best case scenario.
19:25:08 And I think the boarding house concept is really helpful there to give people a place to move into as like a next leg up on the way to getting a place or getting a better job
or fulfilling whatever has to happen in terms of healing from trauma, whatever.
19:25:24 So, or drug addiction. So, thank you so much.
19:25:30 We have a few minutes left for sink comments.
19:25:41 Looks like we're, we're done Joe like you got your full today. Yes I did and I want to say thank you to everyone.
19:25:49 The point.
19:25:51 It helps me get more grounded in where we're going.
19:25:56 And we're administrative comment is since we're not having the public hearing next meeting.
19:26:04 Do we have enough to have a meeting, should we just skip the next meeting and have the first, first next being in December.
19:26:14 That's fine.
19:26:18 I was concerned about that as well. In, I was thinking that might create an opportunity for me something different.
19:26:29 Like, So workshop on this with other groups or.
19:26:33 I'm.
19:26:35 I don't have a direct answer. I, I'm just wanting to think about how that could create an opportunity to to do something more with this. And all I can say is, can we make that
decision.
19:26:52 In the next few days, and get back to you on that.
19:26:56 All right.
19:26:59 If.