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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Digital Transcript 11-17-202117:31:08 I'm not sure either. I, I'm just asking. 17:31:13 It's, it's 530 and Richard screen is, there he is. 17:31:23 He's on his phone. 17:31:25 Or he's here. 17:31:33 Oh, he's trying to get. 17:31:33 Richard out on if you can hear me but I had to reboot my system to get back on to voice 17:31:42 is show is muted. 17:31:46 I couldn't release, anything. 17:31:53 He's calling in. 17:32:02 I couldn't hear or. 17:32:13 or and the microphone wasn't working but zoom was testing side to reboot to you I don't know what's going on. 17:32:37 Richard Did you hear Cynthia suggest that you try rebooting is that where you said Cynthia. No. 17:33:04 Maybe someone who has a microphone to call the meeting into order. 17:33:10 How about now. 17:33:11 We hear you, Richard. 17:33:13 Okay. 17:33:18 Finally, 17:33:18 you hear an echo. 17:33:21 No. 17:33:24 Okay, sounds good. Sounds good to me. 17:33:27 Okay, I'm going to call the. 17:33:40 If I, if my voice sounds a little bit hesitant because I'm getting a feedback. 17:33:47 And I'm going to try to talk slow and not make myself too crazy. He Richard me I make a suggestion. 17:33:55 I'd love to hear a suggestion. 17:33:57 I'm wondering if Matt to run the meeting for a few minutes while you reboot your computer and see if you can get on because that that reverb is going to drive you crazy and it is noisy for us as well. 17:34:09 I didn't see Matt was there, Matt, please take over. 17:34:13 Okay, sounds good. 17:34:16 In lieu of the chair calling the meeting to order. 17:34:21 Taking a look at the agenda. 17:34:25 I guess start off with the, with the roll call. 17:34:32 I know that Richard is here. 17:34:35 I guess go through and, like, Richard says say one by one, that you're here, starting with Lorna. 17:34:43 I'm here. 17:34:48 Michael, 17:34:50 Like, Mr Nelson. 17:34:53 I see your hair. Yes, sir. 17:35:00 Cynthia. I'm here. Thank you. 17:35:06 And Richard is here we know. 17:35:10 I use my echo fixed. 17:35:11 No. Okay so sounds good. 17:35:16 You could try using headphones. 17:35:19 to get rid of that. 17:35:22 Maybe sometimes LD here. 17:35:26 Chris Llewellyn here. 17:35:30 All right, is that everybody. 17:35:36 All right. 17:35:37 Thanks a lot. 17:35:41 Um. 17:35:46 Number two approval of the agenda. Anybody have any thoughts, their emotion. 17:35:49 So moved. 17:35:51 Cynthia Cohen moved to the agenda. 17:35:56 Second, seconded by Mike Nelson. 17:36:00 Any discussion 17:36:04 all in favor. 17:36:06 I guess. 17:36:08 Yep. Raise your hand if, and if I can't see you. I'll call on you. 17:36:15 Okay, I see it. Arlene, I didn't see okay yes from Arlene Lorna. 17:36:23 Press. Yeah. Yes, yes from both Lorna and Chris, Richard. 17:36:31 My echo fixed. 17:36:35 No. 17:36:35 Okay. 17:36:39 Keep going, keep going. We support you. 17:36:43 Let me know when it's time to give up during this meeting. 17:36:46 Okay, so next we have November 3 2021 minutes. 17:36:55 And I guess, you know, scroll down. 17:36:59 Take a look. Anybody have any thoughts on this. 17:37:10 move to a proud the minutes from November 3 2021. Mike Nelson moves to approve the minutes from November 3. 17:37:13 Is there a second. 17:37:16 I have a vocal doggy here if you hear a second LD gave a second. 17:37:22 All right. 17:37:25 All in favor. 17:37:28 Raise your hand if I can't see you. I see a yes from LDES from Richard, a yes or Marlene. 17:37:34 Yes from Mike. Yes, yes from Chris Llewellyn Laura Smith. 17:37:43 Yes, yes from Lorna yes from Cynthia. 17:37:48 Yes, for me. 17:37:52 So yes, a unanimous motion carries. 17:37:54 Moving on. 17:38:01 All right, planning Commissioner update. 17:38:03 Mr. Vice Chair. Yes. Did you is Kevin Coker here and did you call him when you were doing the. I didn't call him it was just, yeah. 17:38:14 And you know I have a wager about that I'll just say a lot of emails and web web services have been down in Port Townsend last couple of days so I could be it. 17:38:24 Yes. 17:38:28 Would you like to speak about or, or, well I don't mean to, I could say something so it's it's just took a bite. 17:38:32 We had a meeting today, with a nice little meeting, and we're just really trying to bring everything together to really listen to where people are in the community who are working on these housing issues, and we're really doing our best to create a simple 17:38:49 shareable framework that represents what we've been doing and how the community can can plug into the work and how we can, and vice versa. So it's, it's an ongoing work in progress. 17:39:01 I think we had a good brainstorm were just the fact that we were getting together. 17:39:10 The kind of troubleshoot a little bit of our own process a bit and agree to figure out how to collaborate on making sure we're covering all the bases and listening to the important stakeholders, things that have been done already. 17:39:22 Cynthia Is there anything you'd like to add. 17:39:25 Did you, I didn't hear you say that this was the housing subcommittee just in case anyone didn't know Yeah. Okay, thanks. I know I think that's a great recap. 17:39:41 Cool. 17:39:41 I do. 17:39:41 I had a little conversation with Carol horsey known colloquially as hockey, who is the new incoming port Commissioner for district. 17:39:56 I don't know she's district to district three honestly but anyway we did some chatting about how the idea of re allowing liver boards, at the cool scene Marina, that's owned by the port that used to allow liver boards and it was disallowed would be seemed 17:40:19 to me to be in some low hanging fruit for housing. 17:40:24 And she said, seemed amenable to that conversation so anyone on the call scene area I highly recommend reaching out to her she's, she's a friendly she's been here for a very long time she's very progressive and really gets this community and has some 17:40:39 exciting ideas about closing. 17:40:44 You know, leading their own way, with regard to that port property. So, that's it. 17:40:58 Are there any other Commissioner updates. 17:41:06 I don't I'm not here, I'm not seeing any hearing, hearing any. 17:41:09 Should we move on to staff and director updates. 17:41:13 I think we're ready for that. 17:41:15 How's it going everybody. 17:41:19 Nice to see you all to be here. 17:41:24 I have just one quick update regarding a topic we've brought up in the past the discovery big golf course planned real residential development. 17:41:33 The final decision document was issued by the hearing examiner, and the preliminary plan approval was approved for that proposed development. 17:41:50 This would be a cluster housing development around the golf course 48 residential units. 17:42:01 And the news is that was approved. 17:42:04 It was approved. 17:42:06 So, Joel. 17:42:08 What ownership is the golf course itself, the clubhouse and they've got some kind of clubhouse I guess going to have and then what kind of public access to the golf course and or trails is there going to be Do you know that. 17:42:25 Yes, thanks for the question, the ownership is of the parcels that assembled the 200 acre piece there I think roughly 18 parcels is all under one ownership. 17:42:39 And that's the we for LLC Corporation. 17:42:44 And part of the project approval is to provide public access or the Larry Scott trail environment, which they have done by easement of the existing trailer women, as well as public access from the Larry Scott trail through the golf course development 17:43:01 to keep George road. 17:43:04 And so that will provide an alternative pedestrian bicycle route to get bicycles pedestrians off of discovery Bay road. And so they'll follow the interior trail roadway system for the project. 17:43:26 Thank you. 17:43:29 This is Mike, I have a question on that. Are there any other requirements that development will have to go through for final improvement or is this the actual final improvement and development shall begin soon. 17:43:42 That's a good question. This is the preliminary approval. So, there is quite a long list of things that need to be done for final approval before construction can begin. 17:43:55 There are a total of, I think 101 conditions of approval. With this decision document. So generally in broad terms, going from a preliminary planning approval to final thing to do some additional final details detailed planning on storm water on their 17:44:21 and grading road cut, they'll be doing cultural resource surveys. 17:44:27 And that's just a long list of tasks in order to show that they are ready to begin developing lots. 17:44:40 I'm kind of drawing a blank on them right now I haven't thought about it in a while, but our code, and 18.35 is our subdivision regulations and list their the requirements for final approval. 17:45:00 Thank you, though. 17:45:02 Anybody else have a question before asking. 17:45:06 Joseph since the golf course is considered open space for this agreement. I have a couple of questions about that. 17:45:16 One is, is there any consideration of the chemical use because it's very close to discovery Bay. 17:45:26 And to his were there considerations of just the overall tree cover, because of the golf course is open space. 17:45:35 It seems that the amount of trees that could go missing could be real, it could be a lot of trees taken out or there could be more of an integrated development approach. 17:45:47 So I'm just kind of curious about those two considerations. 17:45:52 You know the project materials can be found. 17:45:56 The Kennedy website. 17:45:58 laser fish. If you're familiar with looking at planning commission documents. It's 17:46:06 under the MLA reference. I don't have that top of my head right now. 17:46:13 In those documents, you'll see their design plans and it is to incorporate housing that houses, so that it meets must adapt to the site conditions. So trains will be taken, but their goal is to leave as much there to replant after the housing museum to 17:46:38 replant where it would provide stormwater benefits, and and native habitats, around there for wildlife benefits. So they're planning is on a, on a meeting a little impact development type of methodology and perspective. 17:47:03 As far as the CD there's another part of this the, 17:47:09 what was the other part of your question about the open space. Yeah, I was thinking I was considering just chemical use I mean I'm in agriculture. 17:47:17 Yeah, concerned about chemicals. Yeah, there was really great testimony during the hearings about how they currently manage chemical use at the golf course, our guidelines in our code says to follow the King County. 17:47:33 Best Management Practices for camera for golf courses, and they're required to submit up a golf course management plan before final approval. 17:47:42 We learned during this process that that King County document that has been referenced is rather old and the state of the art of golf course management is super seated that document. 17:47:56 There are a lot of interesting things, particularly at the discovery Bay golf club where they use very little chemicals. 17:48:06 That is part of their goal. So their golf course management plan is a development, develop it will be more standard the best management practices. 17:48:19 Thank you that that really answers a lot of my question you can tell by looking at the golf course that it's not free of weeds. 17:48:25 There's certain indicators that they don't use a lot of intense, chemicals, but you never know you know you see frogs jumping over there from the, from the waterway. 17:48:35 And you always wonder if they're going to survive when they get to the other side of the road, so I'm happy to hear that they're thinking of the future in terms of growing back a lot of stuff to in the mitigation aspects, answers a lot of my questions 17:48:47 I get questions from neighbors so thank you Joe, sure, sure, yeah. 17:48:54 other updates from staff directors. 17:48:57 I see Richard has his hand up for question Richard, and maybe if he tried on meeting with the button in the lower left corner. 17:49:10 Richard we're still not hearing you we we need you to unmute press one of those buttons and 17:49:24 if he's on the phone the unmute is different. Right, okay. 17:49:28 It's star something right. 17:49:31 Let's see. 17:49:33 Thanks corner or star six would be the. 17:49:38 Keep going star six to unmute they say star six. 17:49:44 Okay, sounds good. You can also type a question in the comments if it, if that helps. Any other questions for Joel or on this. 17:49:55 What else would you other staff up they stayed at our staff updates. 17:50:00 The only update I have is, is we're pretty much in status as far as the shoreline master program where we're still waiting for ecologies comments back on our draft from the Planning Commission Buckcherry. 17:50:15 And we're also we're moving forward with the resolution to the board on extending the comprehensive plan amendments cycle for 2021 into 2022. 17:50:28 And we will see what we. 17:50:31 There's, there's a possibility we may 17:50:36 want to do something different this year with the comp plan a minute cycle. 17:50:42 That is yet to be seen. We're still debating that if we have enough staff capacity, I just want to point out that we've been deficient, a planner since, since June of this year. 17:50:55 And that would be me because when I took over the planning manager role. 17:51:02 Because Austin left that that left us with one planner so we're still. We're still behind one planner. 17:51:11 And we need to up staff capacity a little bit more. 17:51:16 And that's the only updates I have and those are things we're working on, on an ongoing basis so. 17:51:25 But we're also available for any questions you may have on other issues. 17:51:28 I do have a question. 17:51:31 I don't, I don't know how to raise my hand here but I guess. Okay, Matt says jump in. 17:51:39 Because among the Fish and Wildlife Commission we've got an update on a bill that passed last session that has to do with streamlining restoration projects have Have either of you Joel or David been involved in that and what it might mean for Jefferson 17:51:58 County regulations that wasn't clear to me from the briefing we got at the state, but it sounds like is going to somehow affect local permitting of restoration projects which could be a good thing I just don't don't know what it means. 17:52:17 I don't know what that means, either. So, first, first I've heard of it. 17:52:23 Okay, maybe I'll try to send you something she'll send it to you, David. Sure. Okay. 17:52:32 Okay, so we move on to the main body of the meeting. I have a quick administrative question. Yes. 17:52:40 This is for Joel. 17:52:43 I sent an email this morning I think it was yesterday and losing track of days about getting the current bylaws up on the website the bylaws that are on the website today are a combination of bylaws, that we enacted August 5 of 2020, and some proposed 17:53:06 changes, and we're not going to work on those proposed changes but we do have some approved changes we took action on last year that should be up on the website as our current bylaws. 17:53:19 And I offered to do that work if someone could dig up the original document which I don't have but I haven't heard back. 17:53:28 Yeah, I'm sorry I didn't have time today to get back to you on that. I just did want to point out for for our bylaws work that we differed from the last meeting that the the basis for the line line out document was the 2013 bylaws, that reflected the. 17:53:53 The amendments that were proposed, we have, we are no amount we have, we have amendments that were voted on there in the minutes from the August 5 2020 meeting. 17:54:07 So those that's that's the document that should be up is the 2013 document plus those changes. We can talk about this offline but I think it's important that we have the current bylaws up and that's not what's up. 17:54:20 Okay, yes we can pick those up I do draw everyone's attention to the 17:54:30 aid of our last meeting. I wrote a background cover sheet for the bylaws issue. I'm giving you the background of we're starting with the February 6 2013 by laws. 17:54:46 And then the Planning Commission on August 5 2020 amended section for regarding election of officers, then subsequently that those amendments. and so that's where the Planning Commission is now. 17:54:59 Right. Subsequently, it was sent to the prosecuting attorney's office, and there were some other modifications made that were shown in this line in line out so I believe I've got a sufficient, and let me know if I'm not, if I'm not correct. 17:55:15 I believe I have a sufficient explanation of where we are and what we need to do to to approve. 17:55:24 Know that we have an approved document now we have the what the what the civil attorney did is another a second proposal. But we the Planning Commission actually are in charge of our own bylaws and we vote on them so the bylaws changes that we voted on 17:55:42 August 5 2020 are the current bylaws and should be posted as such, and then the changes that the civil attorneys suggested would be another proposal that we would review and act on. 17:55:55 Okay, so I should reflect the 2013 bylaws. 17:56:13 Show the 2013 bylaws reflecting the August 5 2020 amendments that would be. 17:56:08 Thank you so much. Yeah. 17:56:08 Thank you both for working through that. Yeah, thank you. 17:56:13 My back yet Matt, yes I hear you, Richard. 17:56:16 I would go for it. 17:56:20 I don't think so. 17:56:24 Well, we can hear an echo of us speaking in it but 17:56:31 I don't know. 17:56:49 It's trouble hearing you and it's bad. 17:56:41 You sound like you're 17:56:47 trying to. Yes, long without making an echo for you. 17:56:51 Yes it is better than. 17:56:53 Okay, 17:56:57 to the public comment period I understand it correctly. 17:57:04 It's really don't like your comment. 17:57:07 We haven't where we're going to do a review of the Dakota bush River estuary, I believe that, Commissioner Cohen and as last meeting that somebody walk us through that and that is on the agenda. 17:57:22 Yes, but the the comment period before that. Okay. 17:57:28 I want to give the public a chance to speak if there, if anybody wants to. 17:57:37 Looks like there's nobody who wants to speak. 17:57:41 I will close the public comment period. 17:57:44 We can move to the consent agenda. 17:57:46 The rest of a project. 17:57:55 Don't. 17:57:57 David. There we go. I just need him on the. 17:58:01 So, last time we last meeting we put this in the consent agenda as an information item. 17:58:08 And I didn't have any particular background with it so I I didn't provide any detailed explanation of why it was there as I had with a couple of other items that we put in last meetings consent agenda. 17:58:22 Since then I went to the slide show that, that you would have gone through and and asked our planner here Donna frost home who was aware of the project. 17:58:36 If there's any background to provide the slideshow is pretty self explanatory. 17:58:44 It's with a different agencies and their involvement in the project. 17:58:50 Right. 17:58:51 If I understand correctly, Jefferson County will have a shoreline development permit process for portions of the project, but we don't yet have an application at this time so right now it's just the information from the state and federal agencies. 17:59:08 Generally it's to 17:59:11 provide better circulation for water and sediment transport, or the for the estuary by replacing the bridges and creating a large bridge span, and some other ecological restoration activities that are going on. 17:59:32 So, look through the slideshow, and, and, and the information provided there in there. And we'll have more information as, as we get more involved in the permitting process. 17:59:47 Yeah, well this is Lorna tonight. 17:59:50 Watching department efficient wildlife is actually hosting an online informational meeting about this which will probably be recorded so if I get the link to that I can send it to the planning desk that can distribute it so people that want us, it's probably 18:00:08 the very same slideshow, but probably with, you know, verbiage to go along with it so I'll do that. 18:00:18 Thank you. Yes, it looks like a very fascinating project. 18:00:25 And 18:00:25 as we go forward here. 18:00:35 Complete your comments you're 18:00:43 moving into timeline of upcoming projects. 18:00:51 Okay, David were you going to address this one in particular, or should we bring up the Gantt chart at this time. 18:01:01 I did not have anything prepared for this. 18:01:05 Okay, we have a chart here to just provide an outline of the projects that we've got going on in this reflects some of the feedback from the Board of County Commissioners that we got on November 1. 18:01:24 On November 3 meeting we mentioned to you that we met with a board and talked about where we were on different projects and adjusted some schedules, including extending the timeframe for the temporary housing facilities ordinance. 18:01:41 And so, in our packet. There are some difficulty with the way that Excel is interpreted by the PDF and so it didn't come out in its true form in the packet. 18:01:57 So we are bringing it up here on the screen, and still. This is Lauren I'm sorry. Are you on the phone, and the computer, I keep getting like to an echo and it shows the phone and the computer. 18:02:13 I hear that all the way. 18:02:17 I think it's an unmuted. 18:02:19 Speaker. 18:02:23 So, 18:02:25 we were demonstrating here is, as we're going through our timelines for various projects, how they're going to line up. 18:02:37 And the first project we have these are a lot of record. 18:02:49 Emergency ordinance. 18:02:46 And we had a 12 months schedule but we're going to try to accelerate that. 18:02:52 And if we go down just a little bit further. 18:02:55 The end date for that is, is going to be to try to 18:03:02 wrap some of that up. 18:03:09 In the 18:03:09 early part of next year. In the spring of next year, February, March, something like that. 18:03:16 So that's kind of a change in our schedule. 18:03:21 Any questions about the record. 18:03:29 I Joe I can't, I can only hear about every other word I think there's somebody with an open mic, and I missed what this schedule is what the schedule you're referring to is, what's the project. 18:03:49 Okay, I just muted somebody that is open by telephone that might be Richards telephone. 18:03:58 So I sorry case you need to speak up and unmute again. 18:04:02 Does that sound better. It does. Okay, so we're looking at the emergency ordinance, or identifying how we're going to address these legal lots of record. 18:04:17 And that pertains to looking at these pre 1971 plants and determining how we can avoid 18:04:28 problems with these official plants being developed that at suburban levels. I understand now thank you Joel. 18:04:38 The project was appreciate it. Yeah. 18:04:41 Let's go down a little bit further I'm speaking to Kelowna who's within earshot of me, and she's operating the document here. 18:04:52 So, so we are looking at the transit emergency housing ordinance, we don't yet have a, an emergency ordinance out there but we were looking. 18:05:07 Ryan Benjamin was looking at the issue of the videos and and Airbnb, and the effects on our housing stock. So that's what that project is about. 18:05:25 The next project we're looking at our, surely master plan update and scheduling, that to see how it flows in with other projects, this would be next step coming back from ecology. 18:05:40 And then, we're looking at the code of possible code amendment for a project called cycling sidewalk labs, looking at stormwater we're building height restrictions, and how to enact ordinance in changing the EDC or creating an overlay district. 18:06:02 So this will stretch through to the early part of next year, or possibly the spring 18:06:13 And what's the name of that project again something about sidewalk labs sidewalk Labs is the name that we're giving. It's a proposal, or a 18:06:26 type of natural products facility that would be creating prefabricated portions of building structures, and it's not a project I'm deeply familiar with. 18:06:42 But generally, as a way to reduce our carbon footprint by prefabricated portions of structures in a facility that can be brought on site and constructed into buildings. 18:06:57 Yeah, well, is yes, is this proposal still associated with Google it used to be called Google sidewalk Labs is this still. 18:07:09 This is the same. Yeah, it where it's been proposed before around the country and even in Canada, it is involved like a model development piece. 18:07:34 really were able to get it off the ground. Do you know anything about that. And if they have been cut, you know, have they roll this back from what they were trying to do before what what do you know about the ultimate plans associated with this. 18:07:47 Unfortunately I know very little about the details and Shannon Cartmell is our lead planner on the project. 18:07:56 And it's in its early stages of discussion so we don't really have a formal proposal ahead of in front of us at this point in time. 18:08:07 Although I see a middle and code amendment proposal for 29 November through December Is that a real deadline, are riddled real date. 18:08:20 I'm afraid I can't make any comments, unless, David has some more background that's all I can say thanks Joe. 18:08:28 Yeah, no i don't think those are firm date yet, there's a. 18:08:34 What we're looking at now is we've had a pre application conference, the proposal is ultimately to build a large production facility for these 18:08:46 commercial material timber framed 18:08:51 against their superstructures basically being used for large building development. 18:08:58 At this point, we're looking at converting some pre existing buildings from the old shine hub mining site to be used for this as a kind of an stepping off point for them to experiment with the feasibility of the site. 18:09:17 And we've received a couple of building permits. We've got a conditional use permit to use the existing buildings for this type of facility, but it's still in its infancy, and they have submitted SEPA checklist. 18:09:33 As far as I understand, I don't think I've really looked at it in depth, they're proposing some changes to the UDC to allow them to go up above the 35 foot height limit and increase the impervious surface coverage area to allow them to do this type of 18:09:51 development. 18:09:53 Does it require a reason. 18:09:56 No doesn't require resume resume they have done a lot segregation. So they've peeled off 80 acres from the surrounding parcels that were owned by Rainier previously owned by Pope. 18:10:11 And they've created a new parcel to least 40 acres for this specific project. 18:10:17 We have been presented with their ultimate conceptual plan which is, as I said, a large manufacturing facility. 18:10:27 But at this stage, we're just we're looking at a conditional use permit, and a couple building permits to convert the existing structure into usable space, and another tenant structure for storage. 18:10:41 So they're starting out, just basically laying the groundwork for the site. 18:10:48 And, and then they're proposing these UDC text amendments to allow them to to expand some of the limits on height and impervious surface to build a larger facility. 18:11:02 Go ahead. 18:11:04 I was just gonna say I know there's a lot of public interest in this The court has had several meetings around this. 18:11:11 And I don't know if we've done this yet but I think would be a good idea to have a page on the website, you know with all the information around this maybe maybe a joint link with the, with the port or something I'm not sure how the ports involved I've 18:11:26 just heard a lot of kind of rumblings about this. 18:11:30 Right. 18:11:32 And, you know, this is something that I think we need to present to you sooner rather than later and I actually thought that we would have done that by now. 18:11:42 So something we need to circle back with Brant on, but I'm not sure when that's going to be, because we do have. 18:11:53 I know we've talked about presenting you with their slideshow and what their, their idea is for final development but I don't know when we're going to be presenting you with that. 18:12:07 So, 18:12:06 we'll follow up with you on it sooner rather than later. Thanks David. Yes. You're welcome. David what this is just informational right because we don't have any actions to take Do we know. 18:12:20 Well if there's a UDC amendment you will, yes. Okay, sure. That's one of the next steps in order for them to determine if this is feasible they're going to need to know if they can amend the code to increase the height limit and the impervious surface 18:12:36 coverage. Okay, sorry, I get it. Yes, thank you. So we, when we determine when they want to move forward with those UDC amendments We will definitely be bringing it to the Planning Commission, because you will have a role in reviewing those proposals 18:12:52 and making a recommendation to the board. 18:12:58 But thank you. I have a question for the committee as a whole. I think I'm bad things normal now if my phone interferes please wave your hand or something and I'll mute off again. 18:13:10 So it looks like we're. 18:13:13 We dealt with the timeline. 18:13:19 Let's go down to the bottom and see if we got some. 18:13:22 Yes, we have a green burial project that a comprehensive plan amendment and we're, we're in progress with that. And maybe, maybe completed in this year cycle paired up with next year that we're still determining the scheduling for some of the comprehensive 18:13:46 plan amendments. 18:13:48 So that's in a nutshell some of the projects that will be projects that you'll have on your document at some point in time. 18:13:58 We're just trying to zero in on the timeframes of all of these. 18:14:13 Okay, thank you think that concludes the discussion on upcoming projects 18:14:14 that could move forward into the public comments on the temporary shelter ordinance. 18:14:20 Yes. 18:14:23 We received 14 letters on the temporary facilities ordinance temporary homeless facilities ordinance, and likely it was due to her initial plan to have a public hearing this evening. 18:14:38 We responded to each of the commenters thanking them for their input and and letting them know that our schedule has been changed with that we wouldn't have a have a hearing this meeting. 18:14:51 So, I evaluated the comments and provided that 18:14:58 that summary to you in this. Consent Agenda Item, eight, eight, and I should begin by asking has everyone had a chance to review that 18:15:12 what. Let's see. 18:15:15 Thank you. I'm going to bring up. If I could, if you could, if I could share my screen I'm going to bring up a document. 18:15:26 Let's see. 18:15:37 Okay. 18:15:39 Yeah, 18:15:44 there we go, I think. 18:15:49 I think what you should be seeing an Excel 18:15:53 Gantt chart spreadsheet 18:15:58 is can summon indicate whether I'm sharing that. Okay, thank you, Kelly. 18:16:04 So this is scheduled readjustment here with an extension or six months extension. 18:16:16 Notice will be going out in the paper. 18:16:20 This next Wednesday. 18:16:22 Providing notice to the public that the emergency interim ordinance for temporary housing facilities is going to be proposed to be extended under an additional our new ordinance that will replace the current ordinance. 18:16:42 And there will be in that meeting in that later announcement. 18:16:48 And notice of a public hearing on December 13 at the Board of County Commissioners. 18:16:54 So that hearing is going to be inviting public comment, extending an interim control or an emergency ordinance until. 18:17:06 For this next six months. 18:17:10 As we're continuing to work on the final one, as our business has been this last few meetings. 18:17:15 So looking at the schedule, our red diamonds are regional benchmarks for finishing up the ordinance at the end of this year. 18:17:27 But finding a great benefit, as we've discussed in doing additional outreach and highlighted task five or outreach process, and would be extending it to time period for somewhere around February. 18:17:46 We're a planning commission hearings, public comment period and hearing in the month of February. 18:17:54 And as we go through our standard or normal process it would go to the your recommendations will go to the Board of County Commissioners or any final adoption. 18:18:06 Perhaps in May. 18:18:09 And so, this is a schedule that I'm proposing. And just to give you an idea of what the where the project would be going at this point. 18:18:21 We have some. 18:18:23 I'm going to tie this back to our comment summary here in just a second. 18:18:28 We've got some additional public review process time, built in here and outreach. And 18:18:37 as I'm looking at. This is that the summary that was formatted into a letter to you. 18:18:46 I was looking at the correspondence that we received these 14 letters, as well as other public comments received this far, and did a simple tally on subject areas to see where the emphasis is. 18:19:03 And with the thought of, maybe it would be helpful to summarize these comments with a pie chart or something to show where the emphases are. 18:19:12 But I thought better of it. 18:19:16 As I'm looking at the comments that this kind of inflates are known issues, and then under recognizes emerging issues. And so, again, this last set of comments. 18:19:29 Some of the emerging issues are 18:19:33 looking at things like barriers to entry. 18:19:37 And the issue of how are we going to work with this code of conduct, how are we going to determine 18:19:47 who can enter and who cannot net that brought up, as we've talked about before. Some of those provisions in housing and urban development guidelines the HUD guidelines from. 18:20:03 Not, 18:20:03 not being able to legally prevent someone from getting into a temporary facility based on the past criminal record. 18:20:12 So we began to look at that a little more closely, and we're going to do some additional outreach with the sheriff, and with a contact from Housing Trust Fund who's worked with these issues of low barrier facilities, and how to, how to handle that. 18:20:34 Another comment that's in our summary is investigating the level of mental health support services that are available. 18:20:42 And, and what might be there as part of the program. When we establish insight, a temporary housing facility. 18:20:52 Are we going to experience a lack of facilities or can we come up with a process so we're kind of getting out of the nuts and bolts of setbacks in site planning into more of the community services available. 18:21:10 And how do we 18:21:09 handle certain populations that may be challenging to house in every circumstance. 18:21:16 And then also an emerging issue is that was brought up by you the Planning Commission, last meeting was that often, people are finding that these temporary facilities are becoming somewhat permanent because there is a lack of the next step in housing 18:21:34 or services. 18:21:36 So, these are some of the outreach efforts that we're going to do in this intervening time stretching from our original December timeframe into February. 18:21:55 And on my outreach list I've got more outreach with housing solutions network only kept up house Bayside environmental health to talk about sanitation requirements and kitchen requirements, as well as the fire chief for site development requirements for 18:22:15 tents or Arden structures. So there's quite a bit of work to do in that. 18:22:21 So, um, I started to outline this and I'm in a project work plan, adding an additional outreach for us so just wanted to give you an idea of the direction that we're going or additional outreach. 18:22:40 See, maintaining an interested parties list for comments, and certainly feel free to pass names along to me to add to this list, these will be people who have made comment and would have a standard standing in a record. 18:23:03 And let's see. 18:23:08 And last, I just wanted to show you this a summary of where our outreach work has been recently. 18:23:25 After that we met with the city of Port Townsend planners to do a joint county, city planning discussion about temporary housing facilities. 18:23:35 There was, we identified the benefit of working together and collaborating on this. 18:23:43 Because there, we realize it can be kind of confusing for having two different standards within the city or within the county. 18:23:49 And so we're coordinating on that. And looking at the benefits and drawbacks of codes of conduct, low barrier procedures and stocker plans for at us. 18:24:06 There's a number of items, about housing that we can collaborate on and provide some additional consistency. 18:24:13 So we're going to be meeting with, with the city again on the 23rd of this month to continue that discussion. 18:24:24 Since we've last met we've also met with a joint oversight board to the affordable housing and homelessness housing Task Force and got some good input and discussion about housing. 18:24:41 More broadly, not just temporary housing facilities, but yet fit well with a discussion that we had in the planning commission on the third where we were identifying issues such as 18:24:55 we can't really even with all the housing that by creating additional housing supply we may not be addressing homelessness problem because it just attracts more high end housing, or the question about how can we make accessory dwelling units, easier to 18:25:17 accomplish. 18:25:19 So some of these broader issues of the missing middle housing, were discussed at this housing Task Force on November 10. 18:25:29 We also went into some incentive programs, such as tax exemptions or financial contributions, or having stock plans available for at us. 18:25:44 And we talked about some of the local programs like section eight and and Hud section 811 subsidized subsidized housing and low income housing tax credits. 18:25:57 So there's a rich discussion in the, the housing Task Force, including mutual self help building programs. And so we're, we're kind of probing and exploring different ways of working on the next step of housing. 18:26:26 then where do we go from there. Let's see, I'm going to close this and back to our 18:26:36 summary of the comments received. 18:26:41 I want to get a good airing of this from you, the Planning Commission. 18:26:47 Any comments as we start to drill down on some of these issues are a little bit more. 18:26:56 I said in my, in my recommendations that I don't see any conflicting recommendations from these comments. 18:27:04 But I did see some issues raised that might, might be remembering about fencing, for example, and the idea that fencing can be pretty hefty expense to put up a fence and sometimes fencing is just really isn't that attractive to have chain link fences. 18:27:28 So, as I read through the comments I just kept a pending and adding more information to each of these categories. So under the category of site planning and conditions. 18:27:42 There was a new twist to this site planning of not only let's let the site determine what the setback should be and what the screening should be. There's a proposal, rather than requiring a perimeter fence. 18:27:56 Consider fencing is just one way of achieving the goal of providing screening buffering safety. 18:28:05 And so that was a little bit of a different twist is fencing as needed. 18:28:15 We had some specific recommendations of replacing the term and campus with facility, and some different way of phrasing a part of the ordinance. 18:28:27 And then, as I talked about briefly earlier investigating support services to find out who they are, where they are in their availability. 18:28:40 So, could I ask you for any comments that you have on the comment letters that we've received so far. 18:28:53 and what your thoughts are about the direction and the emerging issues that were highlighted in those comments, Mike. 18:29:04 Mike your comment yeah I'm glad that we saw those comments from the public and I liked this correspondence summary that you put together. 18:29:15 And after I read their comments as well as the summary. 18:29:20 Most, a lot of the things that we spoke up at the last meeting are similar language that came from the public. 18:29:29 I would like to see more individuals in the community involved in this, especially people who are homeowners or property owners. 18:29:39 Because the one thing that caught my attention was the focus on the barrier. 18:29:47 And I understand that. 18:29:49 That concept of. do we need that kind of a barrier with fencing. 18:29:55 But I wanted to comment that 18:29:59 13 isn't only there to 18:30:04 secure and make it the area look palatable to existing lots around it, but it's also there to provide security for the individuals who are within this center. 18:30:18 So, I'm, I understand the expense on on the fencing but one of the things that I'm concerned with is, it's not what I see. 18:30:38 It's I want to make sure that those folks that are in those encampments are properly taken care of and that there's no outside influence of intimidation or harassment in that venue and I think if you leave things open that can cause that kind of a problem. 18:30:48 And again I am a strong advocate of the mental health services. And I think that this needs to be put into this program because we're dealing with different types of folks in these and people need medical care, and mental health is a health issue, and 18:31:08 they need that type of care. So, that's my points. 18:31:13 Thank you. Do you have any ideas of an outreach strategy to capture the comments and our opinions from homeowners and Jason property owners. 18:31:26 I think that we need to get out to the public and get their comments on this. 18:31:35 Just like they've done in the city of Seattle, I mean there's a lot of homeowner influence business influence in this, and I don't necessarily see at this level that we've had that kind of influence, Arlene might be able better to speak about that or, 18:31:51 you know, whoever lives in Port Townsend or in the in the density areas of the county but we just need to get them involved and get them aware, that's all I can tell you, I don't, I don't have any way of doing that other than contact. 18:32:08 Thank you. 18:32:10 Arlene. 18:32:11 Wow, to our yeah the chamber, often is a good resource for getting information out, we have the Business Insider that the leader puts out for us. Once a month that goes to over 10,000 homes and we also have Jeff connects, we have put links to surveys 18:32:31 in all of that we get great response for economic development surveys, when you need mostly from the business community but the chimes in as well so it does get attention it does get the word out, it does get some voices heard that don't ordinarily have 18:32:54 representatives there injure, and basically the Stephen Mike show at the chamber cafe on December, 3 which is a Friday, which is a great opportunity for someone other than myself from this group to get on that call and chime in. 18:33:12 So, to discuss that with our state reps. 18:33:15 I know that Stephen Mike are both very engaged in this, the mental health piece I think it's so important and I've been involved with that for such a long time, so I'd like to see us do some outreach to them as well and I will be doing some personal outreach 18:33:35 to people in that community in the next couple of weeks for that meeting on the third as well. 18:33:44 Thank you rarely 18:33:48 see. 18:33:49 Oh, Cynthia. 18:34:01 Do 18:33:57 me You're muted. 18:33:59 Oh, sorry I touched the wrong button and it took me off into outer space. Thank you, um, I might I the one issue that Mike was talking about. I heard very differently or at least my sense of what makes comments were was different than my sense I agree, 18:34:19 I agree with the idea that instead of having a set, List, of, you know, it needs to be fences this high and, you know, around some percentage of the, of the facility and you know issues like that are specific 18:34:44 accommodations like that I I agreed with the idea that we would build the accommodations that the site requires so maybe it is a fence all the way around. 18:34:55 Or maybe it's not, or maybe it's a partial fence because there's, you know, dangerous roads or, you know, who knows what the possible accommodations could be concerned with but I like the idea of leaving that to the process kind of a performance standard 18:35:17 more than a and maybe, maybe that's what we could work on is what is what is that fence that we would talk about trying to accomplish. and. Could we leave it to our performance standard to accomplish whatever those goals are rather than specific heights 18:35:37 and, etc. 18:35:40 That's the end of my comment. Thank you. 18:35:48 Thank you, Cynthia CLD get after it Go back. Go ahead. 18:35:53 No, needs to see this hand up. No, no. 18:35:57 Okay, go ahead. Go ahead, man. I just, I wanted to read what Joe, with Joe Rogan is summary of the comments because I think this is really speaks to why there's some things in here that really speak to why it's in my day job before the pandemic. 18:36:15 You know I'd be a performer and I'd end up in cities hanging out in alleyways. 18:36:21 You know I'd like to think that I, you know, there are times when fences can close you in. 18:36:28 And when they're not protective, there's a lot of. 18:36:32 Anyhow I like how this is written, rather than requiring perimeter fencing, consider fencing is one of several ways to meet the objectives of an overall security plan security plan to be submitted by the managing agency, consider both sides specific conditions 18:36:47 and the population being served. 18:36:50 Fencing may or may not be need to be required, maybe different kinds of quality, quote unquote fencing as needed. 18:37:00 Fencing is not necessarily the most effective screening buffering a security method. 18:37:05 Fencing can be prohibitively expensive that's a minor argument here. 18:37:09 I really was impressed by this line fencing may imply a barrier is needed, between village and neighborhood. 18:37:18 And so what that says to me is that sometimes the existence of a fence can communicate that there should be a fence, it can create a dynamic, the notion of. 18:37:30 So, there's a sometimes advantages to more community oriented approach if that's what the site, and the community. 18:37:41 If that's what fits the site and the community. So, we're just point that out. 18:37:48 Thank you Matt, thank you. 18:37:55 See I wanted to jump in here and ask. Also, if anyone had any impressions on this link to the Seattle book project, which is also associated with a group called facing homelessness and their effort is to bring people into shelters, on a person's property 18:38:18 and into a community, and also the facing homelessness project is just to connect with people with shared interests, a barber might go and cut people's hair or you might share your skill with someone, and just interact, so that it kind of breaking down 18:38:44 barriers. I just briefly glanced at these websites. They're very well done. As far as pictures. 18:38:49 But I haven't found a whole lot of information from the details of it but anyone have. 18:38:55 If anyone could include that in your comments to what you thought about the approach that these organizations are doing and Seattle. 18:39:07 Come. 18:39:13 I have heard of that project, and I mean that's the world I want to live in 18:39:21 straight up, like I think that that level of sort of community involvement the invitation. We talked about that project in one of the Housing Network groups that I was in, and, you know, the idea, it's sort of the reverse of the NIMBY, right, it's in 18:39:42 my backyard. 18:39:45 And I really liked that, it, that was being highlighted as a possibility rather than of course the neighbors are going to fight this and it will be a problem. 18:39:54 This was snow, the neighbors are want to be part of the solution and, and they're offering. All in all kinds of ways their, their support and help and their land. 18:40:08 Thank you. 18:40:11 Thank you, Chris. I can't see if you're willing to speak so I'll ask you if you want to add Chris 18:40:23 is not. 18:40:25 Are there any 18:40:29 opposing views or concerns about a model like the book project for myself I think there must be a concern about personal safety, as I heard one about a mayor who was sponsoring someone on our property and was murdered by that person. 18:40:50 And so I'm sure people have some element of of concern for people with chemical dependency or other mental health issues. So, Any, any thoughts along that line. 18:41:14 No comments, I would just say, that's, that's kind of it's it's a kind of uncertainty that that people live with when they take in somebody or pick up a hitchhiker you know it's a decision lots of us have made and getting into the more dangerous side 18:41:38 And we're getting into the more dangerous side of it it just really I think highlights the importance of connecting services and awareness and having a, an accessible. 18:41:53 Social Service structure for all different types of needs, whether the person is a perpetrator or, or a victim. So, and sometimes perpetrators just need something, you know, maybe they don't need to be locked up and and sometimes but maybe they need something 18:42:13 like a certain type of attention so 18:42:19 I have a comment that I, I would be concerned about overestimating that, not because I don't think it's important, I do think it's important, but to tell a story about somebody getting murdered because they shared. 18:42:36 You know their housing with somebody who had been in a homeless situation is, you know, that's not really data, and people get murdered for all kinds of reasons, whether they let them in their homes or not or whether their boyfriends with good jobs who 18:42:56 killed them or. There's all kinds of ways that people get killed and so I guess, you know, it's not to say that we shouldn't have reasonable 18:43:13 reasonable interest in making sure everybody's safe. But just because somebody homeless doesn't make them a murder. 18:43:23 I want to jump in and thank you for that comment that's a rational and logical way of looking at it. And oftentimes, there are a lot of missed type of responses that can have a greater effect, then let the data really shows, so I appreciate that. 18:43:50 Okay, if I have. 18:43:53 Are there any other comments if not I thought I would just make a last comment about the process here that I'm wanting to move us into as we bring in this information we're going to have to make an ordinance here and look at the details so what I'm hoping 18:44:13 to do with this, the outreach and if you can see the page I've got on my screen outreach and findings for ordinance. 18:44:21 And so these are points of contact and discovery that we will put into the whereas statements in the ordinance to show the level of outreach and where our information is coming from. 18:44:35 And so, as planning commissioners, you typically go through the growth management indicators and certain particular findings of fact when, When making recommendations. 18:44:47 These are the kinds of findings that I'm tracking for for you as well. And. 18:44:55 And I'm curious to hear if the housing subcommittee has some particular findings that are areas of pursuit, or information that we gather and we can include those in the, the background of your recommendation document. 18:45:15 We won't be 18:45:18 drafting Oregon's texts probably. 18:45:23 Well, we may be getting into some organs details in the, in the UTC part of the text, but I'm just wanting to kind of lighten this up show you how I'm trying to align yourself with creating our record. 18:45:39 And we will be opening up the public comment period in advance of the Board of County Commissioners hearing on the additional emergency ordinance, but then also there will be a public comment period at the Planning Commission for a hearing at the comment. 18:46:00 I'm sorry I'm getting mixed up there be a hearing and commentary at The planning commission. When we get this Gerald into our draft ordinance. So that's what I'm trying to get us to head to. 18:46:14 And so I don't think we'll have another meeting like this of just kind of having a free discussion, I think. Next, I'm going to be working on some additional findings with the outreach list that I've got. 18:46:33 And you'll probably be busy in your subsequent meetings in December with a lot of record issues and discussions. So I'm going to be taking this and starting to put it in packages for presenting it to you again. 18:46:52 Probably early in January, or more specific discussion on what the final ordinance is addressing. And along the way, I'm sure we will discuss pieces of this and more but it's kind of a let you know where I'm taking next and appreciate all of your thoughtful 18:47:10 comments as we go through this now. 18:47:18 So, you're in it. Yes, go ahead. 18:47:25 sense, in a sense, I guess I'm, I'm wrapping up my presentation of where we are with the temporary ordinance in this part of our agenda. 18:47:38 As we unless you want to open up other lines of discussion on this topic, 18:47:47 anybody like to take him up on that. 18:47:52 Yeah, well this is more No. Yes. 18:48:02 Okay, go ahead. Go ahead, Lorna several people to our first. Okay, thank you. Um, Joel, it really seems to me like the workload that you and David and maybe that's because we're not seeing the word, the parts of this and other staff are doing but it looks 18:48:13 pretty horrendous for somebody who's you know done some of this work in the past and you mentioned there's a there's a vacancy Have we ever like you know hired a temporary or or even from a, you know, what do you call it a headhunting place, you know, 18:48:32 get, get you guys some help. This is a pretty between now and the end of the year there's a lot going on. 18:48:41 Yeah, we're looking at that and there may be other projects that we are considering contracting out some work. 18:48:50 But this one is is Brian Benjamin and I are going to be handling this when we might give on another one. 18:49:05 Oh, sorry. 18:49:07 I just learned and Lauren has comment. 18:49:09 I mean, as I said, we need to fill a planning position, that was vacated when I became planning manager or hire new planning manager wanted one of those two things and then I actually think we need another planner and, and also an intern. 18:49:27 In addition to that, because not only do we have this work, we've got we've got a grant that we just got awarded through the Department of Ecology to do a study on our floodplains and some of the river delta is the doctor bush and quote, big and little 18:49:41 quote seen rivers. 18:49:44 seen rivers. So there's a lot of work to be done and IT staffing is my most my main concern that the capacity for us to do this work 18:49:55 is, is, is heavy on my mind. So, 18:49:59 yeah, I hear what you're saying and we're kind of Lala Yella gagging around here, but we really need to get focused on building more staff capacity because I don't see this work. 18:50:15 I know it's going to be more intense as time goes on, so we're going to have to build the staff capacity to do this stuff. And it includes hiring a consultant we looking at hiring a consultant to do the comp plan amendment first mile sand and gravel, 18:50:29 they're going to be doing the environmental review so yes we need to not only build our staff capacity in house but we, we need to hire some on high side help as well. 18:50:41 Yeah. 18:50:43 Agreed. 18:50:53 Yeah, this is to Joel and David, I'm wondering if you could provide us that correspondence summary less that you have on here. 18:51:05 And the reason I asked for that is I noticed a couple of names in there that I'd be happy to go chat with those individuals that I know. Briefly, and get more involved with the processes there and understand where they're coming from so that it gives 18:51:23 me a broader view of what's going on. And maybe we could become more of an advocate for those individuals in this process. So is that possible. 18:51:38 You've got it in the media, they were winning the interested parties list. Yeah, we don't we don't have this in our packet. 18:51:46 Yeah, this is, this is the list of people who submitted the comments, their address and phone number. 18:51:55 If we could get that I would appreciate it. 18:51:59 I think all these are a matter of public record. 18:52:07 Yeah, they were provided in the correspondence sometimes I've added in an email if I hadn't already. 18:52:17 And that makes it more convenient to to email out a decision document or something. So we have, I think this is fair game, and, and I can send this to you. 18:52:32 So let's see. 18:52:35 I'll send it out to the Planning Commission, or are you thinking that, Just a couple of individuals might want it now. 18:52:44 You don't have to do it right now you just get to, whenever you can, and but I'd like to start working with some of these folks that I think would be very beneficial. 18:52:52 Okay. 18:53:07 And so, That sounds fine. Thank you, 18:53:11 Matt. 18:53:15 Um, I just wanted to add this to something I said before where I mentioned 18:53:22 that sense of fear and, and then Cynthia came in with a comment which was really nice that Joel complimented her for and I wanted to clarify what I was talking about there because I had an experience that I have to mention. 18:53:35 I feel like I need to mention it, that I felt that fear one time when I didn't, I took someone in and I didn't want them necessarily to know where I lived, you know and and i i helped somebody on a cold night one night and, you know, but now they're dead, 18:53:52 they die. They're one of the people that died and so, like, who's really afraid here that's I guess that's Joe Manchin contact so that's the context for that fear that I was talking about that's, That's how small that fear as compared to the issue at 18:54:07 hand. so I had to say that. Thank you. 18:54:11 Thanks, Matt, Cynthia. 18:54:16 Yep. 18:54:18 That was sweet Matt thanks. um, I was curious. Director Butler was not at our last meeting and he's not at this one and I was curious, is he going to be attending the Planning Commission meetings in the future, not regularly. 18:54:36 It's Brent's intention to have me being the person here, each time, and then others ad hoc. 18:54:45 Okay. 18:54:47 It would be great to get an update from him about what's happening with hiring. 18:54:56 Okay, well, we'll keep you in touch. 18:54:59 Thanks. 18:55:00 And I think that's a large part because many of us like to be supportive whatever we can do if it's talking, you know, to the Board of County Commissioners whatever that is. 18:55:13 I think a lot of us recognize the imminent need and, you know, want to support that push. So, let us know. 18:55:21 Yeah. 18:55:26 Okay, any additional comments. 18:55:30 We're nearing the end of the meeting. 18:55:33 I see Mike. 18:55:35 Yeah, I will not be more than likely available for our December one meeting so I'm asking for an excused absence. 18:55:48 Okay. 18:55:48 Okay, I have one thing for Joelle, we want to be sure that last the last meeting we decided to put the bylaws discussion on the first meeting December, so be sure to include that as part of the agenda for the next meeting. 18:56:02 Okay, thank you. 18:56:05 And I see some planning discussion about the Planning Commission meetings in December. 18:56:15 Lot of record 18:56:30 Discussing potential community meetings regarding lots of record in in an outreach strategy. 18:56:30 And 18:56:30 for the December 15 18:56:35 potentially having an additional community outreach meeting. 18:56:39 Regarding record. 18:56:41 So, that bylaws on December 1. Thank you. 18:56:45 Thank you. Good.