HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Digital Transcript 04-20-202217:44:53 really confusing to watch on the screen. so I would minimize the number of
people at one time talking.
17:44:59 Okay, we start the meeting. Not yet. If you have a flush dressing up there
and I can just do this on my computer.
17:45:17 I got over . that's the so Let's call that, anyway. zoom. it says it's an
invalid user how to use it connected.
17:45:28 I used to Khrushchev own. The chair was having that issue earlier, and it
did work for him.
17:45:39 After a couple of days I keep banging on it.
17:45:42 Okay, let's try it off. meeting for anybody here. I'm currently using the
elder cap public guest connection. I have to say, Yes, you're okay with whatever
they want to do was Could it looks like you're ready to get
17:46:30 you. You want, David. just click out of that. Yeah, I got it.
17:47:55 Say no somewhere. Yeah. And then it'll say continue yeah and joins meeting
the co-hosting and screen share.
17:48:01 Okay, that you're looking at my screen. turn yeah all right right Actually,
you're about to start smoking , , , , , , , Okay, and I think we've officially
started the meeting, No, We have
17:48:20 not We're being set up, I think, you set up now, and we got , we reported,
I understand.
17:48:29 But i'll get to order the april twentieth 2,002 meeting of the Jefferson
County planning commission.
17:48:35 I'll start by roll call you know then I'll all people say people's name You
say here Kevin here in Theia.
17:48:51 Here, Matt here Lauren had called, says you will be here.
17:48:54 Ld. Here, Chris, Chris is not here like here, and Richards here.
17:49:02 We have any agenda. Does anybody have any concerns about the agenda
presented any other concerns?
17:49:11 I'll move forward. we have several sets of ministers approved this meeting.
17:49:15 Since they'll be some people are seeing if you're different again. minutes.
17:49:24 I want to step 400 times this wall i'll I'll.
17:49:28 I'll end again. Motion to approve the january the fifteenth, 22 min
approved is there a second. So i'm a little second, maybe a second strange session
did you say January 5 anyway.
17:49:48 5 you don't meet you correct thank you it'll pull the Commissioners in
starting with kevin right this video.
17:50:02 Hi now. Yes, Eld. yes, life abstain I was after, and Richard says, Yes, you
look forward to the February, the 20 third to this out 22 min. Understand?
17:50:20 A motion to a motion to approve those minutes kevin cool second, and
Cynthia seconds.
17:50:31 Once again i'll fold the the panel Kevin.
17:50:33 Aye, design, Cynthia, I Matt. yes, building just Mike.
17:50:43 Aye and but yourself I now we'll go to the the this, the workshop, which
was February, the 20 sixth, 2,002, like a motion to approve the workshop.
17:51:00 Minutes Someone that you have moves for a second second kevin seconds, and
i'll pull that commissioners kevin Hi Kevin, Cynthia!
17:51:13 Hi, let Matt. Yes, Eldi. Yes, Mike. Yes. Number just said yes as well. You
have 3 sets of minutes.
17:51:30 Approved worry. Okay, now, going to plan commission updates. Do any
commissions?
17:51:35 Have updates for this meeting. I just found it. Yeah, I just want to say,
really quickly, Thank you to staff for several things.
17:51:45 The the 2 amazing retreats that we did I in the 7 years I've been on the
planning commission.
17:51:50 We haven't done anything like that. and it really was a wonderful
experience, not really grateful for it, and I appreciated I was sorry you weren't
able to be there, but I was appreciation of the commissioners were able to attend
and
17:52:03 we talked about, you know. Could we do it in the future, so that each of
you could be, if there for part of this season, and then thank you for this.
17:52:10 I I would have thought that upping our game, and being able to do zoom
meetings or some kind of virtual meetings, would help with democracy, and I I have
found in the last 2 years that democracy has suffered.
17:52:28 And I think public process has suffered greatly and it wasn't what I would
have predicted, I would have thought that with the more accessibility in general,
certainly not every person, but in general, we would we would have more precision
and more at
17:52:44 least for attendance. and the opportunity would be there and i've been some
quite the reverse, and I've found, you know, with every bit of green stress, with
staff being pressed.
17:52:57 And the public thinks that it feels like a lot of things.
17:53:00 Just sort of went forward Sam I don't I don't know what will pay on the
future for those decisions that were made during that time.
17:53:10 But I felt that about it, and i'm really glad to be here in person.
17:53:17 If there's any other updates I have blend this is Mike, go ahead, Mike.
17:53:28 I received notice today through another committee that the state department
of transportation.
17:53:36 This summer we'll start building that roundabout at the bread and Paradise
Road, and the Highway, and that there will be some closure of the bridge over the
weekends off and on through the summer so I just I don't know
17:53:54 if the department was gonna say anything about it but I just thought i'd
put it out there.
17:53:58 That it will impact the community, and I just wanted to be aware of it.
17:54:02 Thank you, Mike. Thank you. Any additional comments. nation transportation
about the height of our we'll move on to DCD.
17:54:16 Staff and director updates the first one I just wanted to defer the
discussion on stipends to Commissioner Cape team.
17:54:30 I think she's been mentioned and discussed that board decision and
statements are paid to planning commission that's a standard throughout the State,
and then elections.
17:54:41 It did extend Tuesday, and we are going to renounce that statements.
17:54:52 And then Hybrid wanted to thank everyone for the patients.
17:54:56 Were trying to get the new technology in order realized we had a risk here,
Commissioner Dean, to help us.
17:55:04 And so that to me Staffing And I wanted to also point out that we have a
new staff member.
17:55:12 Her name is Emily Andora, and we're really thankful to have her join us.
17:55:17 He's gonna help us with the shoreline of users guide the seat level rise,
Grant and the fcat graph.
17:55:27 And then we had a little difficulty response For the 100 or 200, and or
actually $140,000.
17:55:38 Grant, and so I reached out to those that didn't fire This was for the big
12 steam, a little closer the implementation of the and parcels at my have a
potential for relocated to that flag and so I
17:56:02 found that our the amount that we offer was well, and then there was one
firm that said that they might be able to do it.
17:56:12 We're going to soul sort, because we had no respondents And then when I
reached out to that ferment and asked them if they would do it based upon the
earlier conversation, that they would be willing to to do it and that maybe
17:56:26 we should consider souls sourcing. They declined and so we had another firm
that I had spoken to indicated that.
17:56:35 So that it should have been more money, the the all. So we removed the
relocation from so and use traditional 30,000 to beef up the the offer for the work,
for and then we were very fortunate to
17:56:56 eat. Yeah, one of the States best firms is agreed to do the that.
17:57:04 That's a solvable source so we did save it at the last minute, so we will
be going ahead with the F. cap.
17:57:12 Grant from the department of the Colleges, and Esa is the same firm that
helped the Department of Ecology Issues of the right.
17:57:23 We're really fortunate to have the same firm that's been used by the State.
17:57:29 Another element that I wanted to talk about is that we may be A approaching
the board at the next meeting with 2 amendments in some plan cycle We're still in
discussions with the Board.
17:57:46 One may be for Caswell the case well ground site that may require a
comprehensive plan.
17:57:56 Amendment to facilitate that, and then the other is the recognition that
our comprehensive plan deployed.
17:58:03 What is it that's the practice and digits tribal level?
17:58:10 We're thinking of consumer, that and bringing that to discussion to the
board and the back to you as a body. and then the final update is that on the 20
fifth of this month we will be issuing our in our new
17:58:29 measurement equivalent residential units and looking at the caps of both.
The master plan is so important and Portugal. So we had a group citizens or
interested in ensuring that we're looking at that and it's something
17:58:48 that's correct one, and accessible to transparent and accessible.
17:58:58 So we decided to see to A. or proposals can find a firm that would help us
suggest those, and so that will go out in the Daily Journal of Common as a request
for proposal.
17:59:13 On the 20 fifth of Thepril. we did send it out to the small users group of
community members, and they provided some.
17:59:20 Input and so device so far as people and that's all that I am for updates,
can I ask the 2 good questions?
17:59:32 I I wasn't really sure what the little quill and big quill?
17:59:37 What is that work? What are they assessing? Oh, so it is what they call it.
17:59:43 Look at flood convenience, or What alright Yes, friend that's actually in
the consent agenda.
17:59:50 Perhaps so we can defer to that. Yes, instead of using the meeting time.
17:59:53 And Kit said to you that's the consent Agenda. You might like take a look
at that first, if they didn't answer your but you can come back to us again that you
milk brand No, thank you we had then to
18:00:07 the public comment period, and we we'll be having a public here?
18:00:15 Is there anybody online 2 people, Helena, would you coordinate that for I?
18:00:27 If any of our members of the public would like to speak, please unmute
yourself, and do so.
18:00:51 Here. Your comments is pretty that nobody wish to speak today.
18:00:55 So i'll close the public comment period and we have 6 consent to Jimmy
Items.
18:01:03 This meeting. first is the association qualifications for a contract.
18:01:10 The Fc. Fcap Call that was the ready to talk about that.
18:01:15 That's correct. Yeah, the commercial property of assessment energy of his
agency topic have a code and comprehensive plan.
18:01:24 References for mineral or freeza drople A.
18:01:27 You have said, Control of Castle Brown, Village phase 2 A.
18:01:30 We have an assessment implication of plan for equivalent residential units
for Jefferson County Master Plan resorts mentioned, and we have a travel element in
Jefferson County comprehensive plan.
18:01:41 We could mention staff report i'd like to entertain a motion to approve, to
accept the consent agenda.
18:01:54 So moved that was unlike If we have a second I'll second, that second, the
the proposal full of commissioners.
18:02:12 Are there any discussion? Yeah, i'd like to i'm curious about process in a
consent agenda?
18:02:20 What is that you are asking for as many commissioners in the consent
agenda?
18:02:26 It's too important projects underway in the community so that when you're
looking about the issues that we bring forward you have a comprehensive
understanding.
18:02:37 What is under consideration of Ethical Board and elsewhere.
18:02:42 So far are really folks that do the light upon suggesting message to
development regulations and so important that you're aware the States that are
underway as always expect that people in the community may ask for questions about
things that are going on so we want to make
18:03:05 sure that you are as informed as as always. I am available.
18:03:12 My office if you have any questions about any of the topics.
18:03:17 It sounds as though, for example, number 7 the essay Government granted
that request for proposal correctly.
18:03:27 We're in the process of negotiations now but they've accepted and looks
looks I guess part of it is.
18:03:34 I almost feel like I spend all this time with you going through this stuff,
and then i'm finding out that things are apparently more advanced, It would be, in
my opinion, and this is my pain.
18:03:45 It's great to be kept at rest of things coming up boy.
18:03:48 This was a mountain of information on a lot of levels I didn't have a clear
understanding of what I was supposed to be reviewing, for.
18:03:58 So I was paying particular attention to details that were obviously way
beyond what I needed to do.
18:04:04 It would be better, in my opinion that it came out as a Hey, guys, These
are things that have come up and just discussions.
18:04:10 They're going through board county commissioner and other outside
discussions, and they're likely to come your way.
18:04:18 Good. I can scan. I can spend 2 min on a subject and go to the next thing
and know that there's going to be more depth, and if I need to go back and go into
depth later.
18:04:26 I don't know time I can do it but I just I mean in that link.
18:04:28 I'm County website, that new system, or whatever it is that is got to be
the worst torturous methodology of the imparting information to me that I think you
could come up with without headings font size proper page
18:04:43 breaks. I was scrolling up and down in 2 different menus to be able to see
the page, and then I had to scroll off into the nether sphere to the right, because
he sense of they weren't run on sentences but
18:04:54 the damn line ran on, and I mean it was torturous.
18:04:58 So for of all let's let's figure out a you know, whatever that other link
email that was supposed to come to come.
18:05:06 So I just went on to the link of it site. It just was not an easy place to
read and get information.
18:05:11 None of the links worked even on your word documents sent prioritory to
that on the mineral resource.
18:05:17 None of those links in the document actually the do anything.
18:05:21 So then it was paste and you know so I appreciate the idea of the consent
agenda, and we've talked about before, and do want to know what's coming down the
pipe Laura don't give me a
18:05:32 dictionary and tell me you know you just needed to find, you know, the
first word in a It just seemed like overkill.
18:05:40 There was way too much information there to be able to I just didn't
understand what I was supposed to be assessing and evaluating, so I could come here
with a decision.
18:05:48 Okay, what we'll do in the future is just to identify the items that are
coming forward for action, such as the mineral resource overnight of the all of the
items there that's one of the most important ones because
18:06:02 there's going to be an actionable item with this board the tribal element.
18:06:09 What we didn't include anything on that and then the clean virtual property
for sea caser.
18:06:16 It's still undecided. We are we've got direction we move forward, but we
have not yet put together. a program.
18:06:25 We that would essentially enable property donors the amortization period on
loans that upgrade the problem.
18:06:37 So it's a and it stays with the property so that if I sell that commercial
building up new owner would acquire that debt as well as the property and as I
understand that that's non-binding it's just
18:06:49 a carrot that the State is now allowing local communities to provide
commercial property buildings on the good way to go on dying the topics in death.
18:07:00 You would just say, pressure, consent, agenda. Then you satisfy with the
answer you got how how the DCD.
18:07:10 Is going to present it, I said, to get in the future.
18:07:12 And i'm i'd like to discuss a little bit more before before. I'm really
devoted that's that's why I mean one more thing I wanted to ask are our leans
online.
18:07:24 And and has their hand up i'm happy to let our webinar before I any
comments, Alan, can you hear it?
18:07:32 This discussion that we've been just having i've heard everything
absolutely. Yeah.
18:07:39 Where then? You know I am totally in concurrent with this conversation.
18:07:49 I found I couldn't use that link at all and I did get a direct link from
staff, and was very grateful.
18:07:54 I do feel that I too, read this in great detail, and would have appreciated
knowing what I was, what the outcome of my new education was supposed to be so.
18:08:08 I'm grateful that you're going to be changing the Process it's simply about
a comments.
18:08:18 I think both Kevin and Arlene speak my mind, but I also have.
18:08:28 You know I brought up many questions about This process and i'm not a
opposed to it, either.
18:08:33 I think it just got from on this, and I think here we are.
18:08:37 Months later. Still kind of trying to grapple with what is this thing
that's consent.
18:08:42 Agenda, and think, Kevin said articulated a concern that I had, that I
couldn't even articulate, which was, it would help if we knew what this means to us
in the future.
18:08:53 Is this information only is this coming down the pike you know what is the
context in which we should address each of these things, and I didn't. I didn't know
how to say it until he said it and I was like yes, how am I reading
18:09:06 this thing I know, and 145 pages.
18:09:09 How am I reading this? So So the staff will go ahead? and and make sure
that we put an addendum to the consent agenda that these are just informational
items, or These are items that you're going to need to
18:09:20 read and understand for action that laid down that all of the percentage
that'd be great because it just helps us couch how we're approaching the
information.
18:09:32 But more specifically something say like that solicitation qualifications.
18:09:37 It sounds a request for proposal. How is the planning commission?
18:09:41 In some way responsible we're supposed to be chiming in on a request for
proposal to for a grant. for that We're going to be a and members of the community
is going to be an advisory
18:09:52 body. that stewards that project, and so it's also going to be
implementation items. and so there are different touch points where Your knowledge
of the community, especially the that are in district 3 will be important just that
project excuse
18:10:13 me. yeah we'll see this district but it's really important that you'd be
improved of that Maybe that's part of that description, you know, like hey?
18:10:23 There's a subject matter that's coming their way and this is how it's going
to affect planning commission, because for the life of me on a couple of weeks I was
like how am I even what do we have to do with this
18:10:34 Yeah. And so again, it just a helpful to have that information.
18:10:43 And so at this point, as far as from my perspective what you're asking for
in in yay, though the consent agenda is just.
18:10:53 We're still sitting in the back seat waiting for the stuff to develop.
18:10:58 And now we know it Yes, yes, we've received it any additional discussion, a
good work, small thing, and that's just to say I also, in addition to that sort of
before I read it what's the what's the context, in which
18:11:11 i'm reading it also. Sometimes we've kind of staff talk about consent
agenda items, and sometimes they haven't. And so I found myself, as I was looking at
it thinking, Okay, are we gonna get more can I ask
18:11:29 questions about this or not, and I think it would just help to know the
answer.
18:11:35 So if I know that you're not going to present on any consent, agenda item,
and i'm not going to ask questions about it.
18:11:41 Hi. Then, though, I can approve staff ahead of time, so that when I come to
the meeting, my questions are already answered as opposed to coming to meeting and
join.
18:11:51 Are we gonna get a briefing on this or not and I just you know we've done
it both ways. So it's been a little confusing our lead.
18:12:01 That experience of consent Agendas, if he heard a sympathy said about it,
advanced by discussing the agenda, do you think in the past 3 practice?
18:12:13 And again there was a discussion meeting. I thought it was just presented.
18:12:18 So generally. if you want to have a discussion about anything on the
consent agenda, you ask for it to be removed from the consent agenda.
18:12:24 So that you can have discussion. in the past, you know.
18:12:31 We've had the conversation several times about consent agenda is just
information.
18:12:38 If Staff wants to have conversation about it it shouldn't be on the consent
agenda.
18:12:44 But if anybody is wants further information, then you can pull it out of
the consent.
18:12:48 Agenda consent to having received the information about the other items
that are bulleted.
18:12:55 Thank you, Arling. I Okay, May I have a comment? You want .
18:13:05 You end up? Yes, we I put it in the in the comments.
18:13:12 I have my hand up for a while my car i'm in as if I'm discussed the meaning
of consent agenda.
18:13:18 Truth is, if we ask for less information, someone will complain in the
future.
18:13:24 Best to be aware of the definition of consent agenda background.
18:13:28 We appreciate it. Happy to hear the good news regarding the big little
quill project.
18:13:35 That's my comment, Thank you Matt, only Jerry did you ever hand up our
lead?
18:13:45 No Cynthia. just to follow up to what Arlene said, and in Roberts rules it
only takes one number to request that an item be removed from a consent agenda.
18:13:57 It's not something you have to vote on correct you have a a vote on the on
the table, however, and there's no other discussion.
18:14:07 I'll call the question you know full of commissioners if they want to
approve the consent.
18:14:13 Agenda as presented. That was 7. Hi, Cynthia, I Matt.
18:14:23 Yes, building. Yes, my I. Victory says yes, and and bring you further
discussion.
18:14:34 Yes, from everybody's including galilee comments as Well, well, i'll be. I
didn't propose you yet look over you, I mean. yes, exactly.
18:14:52 I missed you and all of those didn't I I Hope we'll be okay with those
minutes.
18:15:01 I was okay with them. yeah but that's i'm Sorry I have a checklist here,
and I check people off as they both.
18:15:11 And you were the top of lists and I just didn't see it. So and i'm not back
to be upsky together.
18:15:17 Okay, now that you move the regular business. Sorry the update from the
Board of County Commissioners, Richard Dean.
18:15:25 Thank you. Cheryl. Hi, everybody! I think I know you all, all of you for
many, many years.
18:15:34 Actually I really appreciate being invited here today. I felt a little left
out of the retreats, but I figure i'm the youngest of 3 kids in my family, and I'm.
used to being left out so somehow I ended up on a
18:15:46 commission of 3 to really pokemon So just start up by saying, Thank you so
much, and everyone I know you put in a ton of work that is often unrecognized by
most people.
18:16:02 It is often controversial. and you don't get enough support from staff,
from another resource department, and recognize all of that great work that goes
into staffing this.
18:16:14 But it is, it is, you know. we know that the department is under resource.
18:16:19 So you know all of that, and then throw in a pandemic and challenging times
for everyone.
18:16:25 And so I just want to say thank you for sticking with it for a good long
time.
18:16:28 We have a long 10 year on this commission, and appreciate it, and welcome
to the new folks, too.
18:16:36 So i'm hoping to discuss some ways that that we can all work together
better.
18:16:42 And you know I think there are i've had conversations with some of you over
the years of how we can do that, I think, coming out of the pandemic is a good time
to kind of reassess how we're doing
18:16:52 things, and how we can help pull in the same direction. that said I
recognize You're an independent board, and that is important and critical to what
you do. But I think that we have a lot of alignment and our shared visions, and
18:17:07 so interested in how we can be staying in our lanes appropriate lands and
working together at the same time.
18:17:17 I do want to acknowledge too. that There's a lot of passion on this board
which I very much appreciate, and we've seen that result in game changers. and i'm
thinking of the shooting range
18:17:28 ordinance in particular, and just really appreciate how much heart you
bring to this work.
18:17:35 The and it is you know it's interesting how when you have if Staff and you
have the legislative body of the Commissioners and the planning commission. and
sometimes it takes having a trip partake like that to allow you guys to
18:17:49 do the hard work of saying, Hey, what about just keeping shooting ranges
indoors, and you know like we hadn't thought of that, and brilliant.
18:17:57 So, thank you, and I no way wish to diminish that the passion that you
bring to this work to one idea that's Director Butler mentioned was the idea of
stipend.
18:18:10 So i'm gonna throw out a few ideas for how we can work together better.
18:18:14 And So stipens are being used more and more across the State, and many
different boards and commissions, and largely well, the State is kind of driving
that process, because we know that it can be a barrier to folks to not
18:18:32 be reimbursed for their time. There are people for whom their their time
can't afford to be given to volunteer for something like this.
18:18:41 So. I I think I can speak for the wholeiocc, and saying, we want to see
more diversity on our boards.
18:18:49 And think that's offering a stipend proposed $50 for a regular and special
meeting would be a 2 a fair amount.
18:18:59 So happy to discuss that with you. Any of the items I bring up tonight are
happy to discuss with you tonight, or have ongoing conversations about also would
love your input on how how we might bring more voices to this table there are a lot
of voices that have been left
18:19:15 out of the planning process out of democracy and the legislative process in
general.
18:19:19 But you know the the sport exists to give voice to communities.
18:19:25 And so would love to hear your ideas, and how we can bring more voices to
the table with some regularity.
18:19:35 Let's see in in more practical matters something I would like to talk about
is the idea of of you using reliing on subcommittee's more and that's something that
a lot of our boards do we have many
18:19:46 many advice reports. Yours is different and special. Of course you have
statutory authority that many of our boards do not.
18:19:55 But it is especially helpful on boards that really utilize subcommittees,
because staff constraints are often a problem doing work as a board of a committee
of the whole is incredibly independent of of staff
18:20:12 resources. So many of our boards relied heavily on subcommittees, so that
they can gonna be digging in doing, doing some deep dive at work bringing their
findings recommendations to entire boards who then have a very public and
18:20:31 transparent deliberative process to advance those ideas you know often in
in recommendations to the Vsc.
18:20:40 So I think there are a number of projects that are very worthy of that
right now, and just encourage you to give that to.
18:20:46 If that is a way that you could be working concurrently, going deeper.
18:20:52 And more efficiently on on certain items and they're a number that i'd like
to call out one that I personally are invested in is thinking about walkability in
for havoc as we are about to
18:21:04 bark on construction we're headlock sewer going to have a lot more density
there.
18:21:09 We're going to have Roads dug up and we happen to have the largest
infrastructure package in, you know, a century coming out of the Fbs other ways.
18:21:19 Or should we be thinking about walkability and other amenities in for
headlock?
18:21:24 Something. we would love your help on hoping to get community input on
that.
18:21:28 So please think about that as one option. maturity.
18:21:34 Yeah, it isn't if we hadlocked our uga right now wouldn't that have some
governance.
18:21:43 Nope, Nope. It falls under December governance out of municipality, were
incorporated in any way.
18:21:51 Under this commission. Yeah. And it will remain so. Yeah, until a lesson
until it were to incorporate.
18:21:58 Would you be a vote of those people? Yeah. And a pretty strenuous set of
requirements to do so down the road.
18:22:04 Perhaps and certainly the the sewer is the first step.
18:22:08 And you know, in that process, but I have not heard of a coordinated effort
to incorporate there in my many years of involvement there.
18:22:18 Some other. You know other other ideas that I think we could really benefit
from a few people really digging in deep on issues.
18:22:26 The stock plans that I know this group has been talking about for a
affordable housing know, being able to work nimbly on that issue.
18:22:37 And then, of course, the legal lots of record. that we we to get that
moratorium off the books?
18:22:46 Nobody likes a more turn so you know I think that just the ability to work
Nimbly has a lot of value, and I think that would support staff and still give you
the opportunity to be engaged on issues so i'm not
18:23:00 suggesting that it would be bypassed in the process.
18:23:03 But just simply that we could be perhaps nimbly, and moving through some of
those issues more quickly. So happy to talk about any of these ideas just stirring
them out there.
18:23:13 If you have other ideas about how we could all be working better together.
18:23:17 Certainly willing to listen. There was some concern about some of the task
courses that Commissioners asked for, and so happy to hear and put on that to So
Chair Hall.
18:23:30 I'll leave it to you, but just happy to have conversation on any of these
topics or others that are of concern to the Commissioners.
18:23:37 Thank you. Help this discussion. Make good measures, Cynthia.
18:23:42 I have a question about the tribal elements so are are you you I didn't ask
for a subcommittee.
18:23:52 You didn't specifically call that out are you imagining a public process
that would include more than people who look like me.
18:24:01 Involved. I would certainly hope so. and this is we're in very early stages
of this.
18:24:09 So you know, Tag team a little bit with friend here.
18:24:12 But yeah, I I think that would be imperative so i'm Thrilled to hear you
say that because I went to the event at the Jimmy.
18:24:19 Come commons where the large formats are photographs of the chimney come
tribal members who are not extinct.
18:24:29 Which was what I was always taught. They were at St.
18:24:32 Were presented and displayed, and they were gorgeous and beautiful, and I I
furred the dream of one of their members talking about a tribal center and
18:24:45 I was thinking, where's that in the cop plan maybe we need something in the
complaint.
18:24:50 So i'm glad to hear that that's already on your mind and that we can go
forward.
18:24:56 But I I really want that to be an effort that's not driven by us. Yeah,
agreed. and San Francisco had a conversation about this today, and you, you
mentioned best practices, and you know this would be really pioneering
18:25:12 work. I know that the city of seattle is doing similar work right now, and
there's there's not a lot of information available.
18:25:19 There's a lot of models to work from in part because the indigenous
relationship to lands things like property rights is so very different than our
laws.
18:25:32 So it it's would not be easy work but I believe it's important.
18:25:41 Thank you that anybody has done the zoom. Sorry to be.
18:25:45 Have any comments Mike I appreciate Commissioner Dane bringing this to our
attention, as it was done at the retreat that we had in February from the other
Commissioners talking about.
18:26:04 That I find, and you know that this is just my observation.
18:26:08 I find that when we, as a planning commission or the commissioners
themselves, have a special project that involves things that we, as planning
commissioners, should sink our teeth and 2 breaking up of the planning commission
it's
18:26:27 a kind of demoralizing to us as planning commission members.
18:26:33 But I do think that the last committee, especially on the shoreline master
program that was put together, and we did have 3 commission members on there worked
quite well, and I think what we addressed at the workshop recently.
18:26:49 Was that those committees should be brought together by the department as
well as the planning commission, not the Commissioners themselves.
18:26:59 You're still gonna probably have the same end result But I think the
community needs to be aware that the Planning Commission is here willing to work and
put in the time to get these projects put together.
18:27:18 Certainly the Commissioners can provide some influence on recommending
members of the community to come and speak with us, or participate with us.
18:27:26 So I think we have the direction to go with this is just let the planning
commission run with this, and there's no reason why the planning Commission can't
have individual subcommittees. themselves.
18:27:41 I do know that we've just recently been looking at affordable housing
project.
18:27:47 I think Richard and Cynthia and heaven we're all on that. There might have
been a couple others.
18:27:54 Yeah, it looks at these items, so we have the catalyst to do it.
18:28:00 We have the energy to do it, and I think we can draw from the community to
do it.
18:28:03 Just give us the challenge to go about and doing that other than that.
18:28:11 Think the department's been working extremely well with us under the
direction of Director Butler, and I have to say that the staff in the Department has
been very responsive.
18:28:25 I know that through a curve at us the other day with the way to go look at
something other than laserfish.
18:28:33 But we seem to get a around that and work it on but They're, providing us
information, and they're communicating with us, and they're working with us, and I
think the flow goes back from us to them also So that that's what
18:28:44 I have to say about it. Thank you. Thank you, Mike Kevin.
18:28:51 2 things one, i'm not sure if you remember but not you just passed.
18:28:57 There was an organization that came to us with what they thought were
walkable communities, solutions the core up here at the station and the Mark B one
down A. cool.
18:29:09 They had one. I don't recall if they had something similar, you know
headlock in their presentation, but it was a lot of good work, and from the
organization lots of background is doing that kind of thing i'm sure that's
somewhere in the
18:29:22 art available. they'll grab and see a thing that's you know, instead of
starting from ground that make the , in place, and the other one, and it's come up
in many discussion that I think the stock plans is one that
18:29:38 We've talked many times about i'd be happy to jump in and assist with that,
but also lot of good work was done by David Wink Johnson on the boarding house you
visions that I think the county ought to adopt and that ought to be
18:29:49 something we strongly think about, at least at the commissioner level for
getting that into a compound amendment cycle that we're talking about, adding some
new things that we feel we are fleshed out either have to go
18:30:02 or should go. that might be one to consider because it's been fleshed out
quite well.
18:30:07 Lots of precedence on it should think it'd be almost a slam dump between
the table.
18:30:15 The places have that thing on the boards and no thank God option with more
bed shelter on forms, for example, or in the rural area, and that's more i've been
courage to think thanks kevin
18:30:32 Cynthia. have a couple of quick comments on all those might speaks my mind
about the task forces.
18:30:42 You've heard me talk about this you missed retreats and I think the the
real problem with the task force is that my view was that they they put together a a
so public process that wasn't I mean while technically the
18:31:02 public could go to it. It wasn't publicly announced and available, and
opportunities for the public to speak.
18:31:08 And then, when it came and whatever their output was, came in from the
planning commission, it was sort of like, okay planning commission.
18:31:15 The public process has been done. you need to get through this and it, and
we didn't have that depth of knowledge, and we didn't get the time to then dig in
again, which would have been a different thing.
18:31:27 But so I agree with Mike that putting that process at a different point in
the sequence that we're we are convening that those task forces, if that's what's
required and participating fully with the public makes
18:31:44 a lot more sense to me in terms of public process. I wanted to say that out
loud.
18:31:48 We have had some disclarity in the planning commission from staff over the
years.
18:31:56 When I first got here we were looking at doing the large comprehensive plan
update, and it was and I actually convened quite a few subcommittees, and then we
got the brakes from staff staff.
18:32:12 Said, you're you're not supposed to be meeting even 4 people under under a
about a quorum.
18:32:22 You're not supposed to be meeting and we need to have all these.
18:32:25 So there was a lot of disclarity and I was like it doesn't say that
anywhere, so you know, and it, and they were understaffed, and that has continued so
we've sort of gone through different periods of time where
18:32:37 there's been different attitudes about subcommittees, but it's left us with
some disquiet like we don't feel confident that we understand how to do a
subcommittee that is legal and
18:32:52 and you know we did the housing subcommittee we weren't noticing it.
18:32:57 We invited anybody to come that's what a subcommittee is to me but there's
a little bit of tentativeness because of the pushback.
18:33:05 What we've gotten over time. so I talked about it the at the Retreat, that
we have some work to do on our
18:33:12 Bylaws to clarify that, think it can be clarified.
18:33:16 I think we have the language from the civil attorney's office, and I would
really like to see the point Commission get their bylaws straight.
18:33:23 So that everybody understands that we have that right to do it.
18:33:26 Thank you. Zephyr. Yeah, Matt has a comment.
18:33:32 Hi there. I wanted to mention that we had a issued a subcommittee report on
the affordable housing ideas.
18:33:42 One of which Kevin mentioned, and that was provided to that was in the
packet for the Retreat, which I was astonished about, and I was really so pleased to
see our work representative in the packet, and the fact, that
18:33:59 you're other addressing commissioner dean that you're both of your
colleagues have now seen this document.
18:34:07 I would encourage you to check it out. if you can or I can check in with
you individually on it.
18:34:13 I'm always open to advice on how a subcommittee can better work with both
the department and commissioners or other people at the county level to help hasten
the work and discussing things early and often and and
18:34:31 accept, and seek advice so it's just something i'm always into.
18:34:37 I feel really proud of the work we did in our update and I'm to honor that
little update is included in the packet.
18:34:44 It's got some new ideas once one of which kevin mentioned.
18:34:47 So. thank you. Thank you. nap food. Chair right Oh, might I recommend one
of the things that I've heard, because you the stock plans which mentioned Kevin
Commissioner Cocker expressed an interest in that I would propose
18:35:03 that we start with the trial arrangement. perhaps with the stock plans.
18:35:10 A 90 day subcommittee, and I want to make it a 90 day one, so that it
something that we need to do deliver results to the Board.
18:35:19 I believe that in 90 things we could. And if there are a 3 planning
commissioners that would like to work with staff, that might be me in this case, I
would like to just offer that kevin Yeah, and I would
18:35:37 be sure, is Brett, in your opinion i'm thinking what was hanging through to
be stopped plans or would it be that morning?
18:35:43 House. think stock plans for that? I think we could accomplish in 90 days.
18:35:48 Okay, i'm happy to people on online. does anybody want to participate in
this commitments up to me.
18:35:59 Matt, anybody know if anybody here cynthia wants to participate? actually,
I wanted to make a comment.
18:36:10 Don't have a comment. Now let me give you to stay first. Yeah, we have Matt
and kevin anybody else, and it was that you the inequality and I couldn't tell I
Miss Arlene the Kelly
18:36:33 Yes, no, i'm not Sure I didn't catch phony I couldn't help you put your
hand up to say you want to speak this up a bit.
18:36:39 You're not but i'm group yourself, did put my hand up for that.
18:36:47 Correct. Okay, Good. So there's there we have 3 traditioners. there, that's
probably a good number to have Yes, wonderful.
18:36:54 So I will start with our Lead Commissioner of the commitment, and I will
send out a Google call to find out what we can have.
18:37:05 Our first meeting to efficient start. Frankly, data you got a comment I had
committed to Director Butler at the Retreat, that I would contact him about this
about soccer plans, and then You were gone.
18:37:19 And now i'm gonna be on so i'm not putting my hand up for this ninety-day
process.
18:37:25 But I am interested in General i'm going to be in Europe for May.
18:37:29 So I won't be here and so I don't want to make that commitment.
18:37:32 But I wanted to connect the dive for you. Measure. Yeah, I just want to
reiterate what Cynthia was saying about.
18:37:40 I think there would be value at having a process. you know that I think
there's a a risk of you know part of the kind of all pulling in the same direction.
18:37:54 And how do we ensure that the effort, that and passion that this group has
and wants to apply towards this work is in alignment with what the department is
tasked with doing with what the comprehensive plan says with the
18:38:08 Pesky Board accounting commissioners who set policy and you know. I think
there's been a sense of frustration from planning commissioners.
18:38:22 At times that work they have done has not been appreciated or or put to use
or activated.
18:38:30 And so that's why, I think it's important that that we're all in agreement
about the work that subcommittees are doing so that we are kind of staying within
the the bounds and the i'll just
18:38:44 be be frank and and use one example and matt i'm going to call you out a
little bit here.
18:38:51 Been friends long enough. I can do that, I think you know, like I really
appreciate it. The work you put into the multiple adu proposal a few years ago.
18:39:01 And in in my understanding of Gma that would not fly and at the State
level, and and it's risky for us to think about
18:39:18 We already have the most liberal idu policy in the state that rural lands
and So like I I was so grateful for the work that was done and got support from the
community, and anybody with legal backgrounds in growth management says
18:39:37 don't even touch it, and it's like how can we not have that good effort.
we'll you know end up at a dead end where we're saying too. risky we can't we can't
do anything with it so I think
18:39:49 it's. if we can find some way, to all save apps so that we can ensure that
the work that this group is doing is within the work Plan is agreed upon.
18:39:59 You know, has some, some scope that that we all think is gonna get us to
where we want ahead.
18:40:08 Thank you. didn't do any more on that Yes, in in your agreeing with me.
18:40:15 I disagree with you entirely, which is I mean I see the planning
commission.
18:40:20 I don't I don't have a problem with us coordinating, but I think it's
important that the planning Commission be able to go out a little bit farther
because we don't have the restrictions that
18:40:34 you do, and we have the ability to stretch and push and Sometimes the
starching and pushing might be in a direction that fruitless and and and maybe
sometimes it's in a direction where we break through in a place where we didn't
think we
18:40:51 could. Then I I wouldn't want to to build a structure that would say, we
can't ever take a risk and go out, and if the community really wants something try
to push on the boundaries even to the extent where we push back on
18:41:06 the State and say, we need this. How do we need this?
18:41:09 Well, we have a big community that keeps saying year after year after year,
that we want to go in this direction.
18:41:17 Maybe there is a way that we haven't thought of and that's the breakthrough
that I hope we would always have the opportunity to push for and for that I support
Matt being passionate in the direction that maybe most people or many
18:41:32 people. Haven't understood or been able to jump on board with or see?
18:41:38 Thank you, Cynthia. Yeah, there any other wild closing comments, or Matt
Matt, you had your hand up.
18:41:46 Yes, i'd like to make a comment. just well, yes, the experience you speak
of was a couple years ago.
18:41:55 And like, I said in my prior comment and encourage to Commissioner getting
to check out the work we've done since, which has been informed by people who have
legal experience with Gma on the State level many of whom you know and there has
been some
18:42:11 loose, input you know, in a loose so in any way where nothing is quite
defined.
18:42:19 Yet. we're working on the general concepts received concepts from people in
the No, such as Well, the balance was pretty good.
18:42:26 How's that going? And so my question for the commissioners is the same, you
know. how's it going?
18:42:34 We had all those public comments. There were things that the Commissioner
said, when that idea was rejected, which were Id of ways of moving forward, and I
understand we're doing lots of them.
18:42:45 We've had some emergencies. pop up and the subcommittee is designed to
handle things that are not the front burner emergencies, although many would argue
that climate change is a front burner emergency and that policy
18:43:00 is moving slower than climate change. this point. So what we have now is a
loose framework of how to approach Gma in a more strategic fashion, based on advice
cultivated over 2 years, and I encourage you to check out the report that
18:43:21 we made, and note how small it is, how simple it is.
18:43:28 How clear it is, and how open-ended it is!
18:43:31 In terms of seeking advice, like, I said before seeking advice on how to
move forward with efficiency.
18:43:38 So thank you, and thanks for the comments that you said back when it was
denied.
18:43:44 Those were all good ideas and good comments, and I really think we should
all keep moving on this, so anything that we can do to support always let us know.
18:43:52 Thank you, Matt, I think we're kind of drifting off into specific topics.
18:43:57 Now rather than process Brent, did you have a final comment?
18:44:00 Yes, i'm hearing that we're sort of an agreement if this one of the things
that are here is that you know, going looking at that different aspects of the work
that has been directed to the planning agency maybe the
18:44:17 example, I think of was that direction that's gonna we're have to develop a
shooting organs.
18:44:23 So you came up with the nontraditional approach that was within the
direction provided by the board.
18:44:31 So a car layer that I think that I said Well, why, while we already do have
the most liberal aba policy, but we don't want to lose the multiple 80 users, right?
18:44:42 It really well with it. The proposed port havoc.
18:44:47 Uga keeps the urban character, and we can look at that in an area that will
soon have the services to support. that
18:44:56 That might be an area where can sort of fit that in?
18:45:01 And also look at how do you connect those more debt scrubings?
18:45:08 Other areas, destinations like Qfc. or the waterfront.
18:45:14 How do we do that? So I Don't want to discount the work that's been done?
18:45:21 But I want to channel it into a venue that will be a success for us, and
recognize that with what is it?
18:45:30 30,000,000 on this sort, or there is. It might be timely, too.
18:45:40 But David wanted to real quick I made a note to share information on
subcommittees and open public meetings act to clarify that I heard some concern that
there's some anxiety about meeting as a committee we
18:45:53 can clarify for you when you need meeting minutes, and how to convene, and
if you need to advertise it for the public or not right, and I want to point out
that we were very much a Director i'd be very much
18:46:07 against any meetings that constitute a quarrel , We offer such level of
limited resources that would be so concerned.
18:46:20 I think we're all in the same field okay great a good discussion on this
topic, and I could move on to the next topic.
18:46:29 Right, Betty Mill will talk about legal lots of records, legal legal law,
legal law, or record update.
18:46:36 I think, Commissioner. I I would like to hear an update on this, and then
i'll probably take off after this.
18:46:45 Thank you. Good evening, everybody. before I get to my presentation there's
2 things I need to check in on first.
18:46:55 I need to be made the presenter, so I can share my screen.
18:47:00 Second. I just want to make sure that those of us who are in person today.
Are Is there a screen that you can look at where you can comfortably read what's on
the screen?
18:47:13 It's about to be well. There will be are plugged in.
18:47:34 Yes, all right, and we can the screen. Okay, Me a moment here, future is
giving me a little bit of grief.
18:48:19 Okay. Good evening, chair, Paul, and the members of the Planning commission
for the record.
18:48:23 I'm Brian benjamin assistant planner with DCD.
18:48:28 Tonight's presentation provides an update to the outreach and research
conducted to create a story map detailing the emergency moratorium concerning legal
lots of record and plats existing prior to the county's first subdivision
18:48:40 ordinance tonight's presentation will cover 4 topic areas. This day will
provide a recap of the January Fifth Planning Commission meeting, which was the last
update research related to the moratorium presented to the
18:48:56 planning commission Next, DCD. will recap past an ongoing research efforts
to incorporate public comment into the legal out of record public engagement
deliverables.
18:49:10 Then I will present 2 story maps that demonstrate how the Department has
incorporated questions and concerns for outreach into an education and public
engagement document.
18:49:21 And since the stories and story maps are not complete, DCD.
18:49:24 Will also present on next steps for research and analysis plan for the
final story map deliverable.
18:49:31 Lastly, DCD. has also prepared questions for the Planning Commission to
generate feedback on early progress.
18:49:37 For these story maps i'm sure january Fifth recap during the January fifth
planning Commission meeting, Dc.
18:49:47 Presented 4 matrices at lining approaches from 7 local Western Washington
jurisdictions and determining legal status of parcels.
18:49:56 The 4 matrices outlined protocols for implementation, such as code,
language, and consistent administrative processes, review requirements such as
requirements for separate permanent applications, and or their the application
contents standards for
18:50:15 legal status and developability, like documentation of recorded plats and
locked sides. and whether each jurisdiction jurisdiction used local or state
subdivision dates for legal status determination.
18:50:33 Okay onto the next topic. Our ongoing outreach efforts since approval of
the updated Moreatorium and December the twentieth, 2,021 DCD.
18:50:44 Has maintained 4 primary venues for outreach Internal County Advisory team,
consisting of representatives from VCD.
18:50:52 Environmental health. the assessor's office and central services next the
stakeholder group, consisting of real estate brokers who have provided key insights
from property owner concerns to housing market activity, then during the
18:51:07 initial rollout of the Moratorium Community Development Director Friend
Butler maintained office hours, dedicated to responding directly to the community.
18:51:18 Lastly, regular customer assistance meetings that have tabled valuable
contribution from the public, ranging from adding exceptions to the moratorium for
environmental protection projects to more general questions of concerns about
developability
18:51:33 of individual properties. Since this December to 2021 DCD.
18:51:40 Has hosted 10 outreach meetings, 3 with the real estate, real estate
broker, stakeholder group, the and 7 with the county advisory team.
18:51:48 So did forget to add one to this matrix. It was with the water quality team
and public health.
18:51:56 The purpose of these meanings was to identify effective approaches to
public outreach engagement and education, to facilitate meaningful opportunities to
for the public for public engagement.
18:52:06 On this issue 3 overarching comments were distilled from how to reach
meetings hosted by DCD.
18:52:15 That there is limited information to help the public understand the
moratorium and applicable local and state regulation.
18:52:24 Then the Department needed to further define the underlying issues and
concerns about density, land use, critical areas and future development through
accessible illustrated visuals and analysis.
18:52:39 Lastly, that the county would need to get creative to reach as many people
as possible during the pandemic, where typical approaches to public outreach are
restricted.
18:52:49 The county advisory team identified story maps as an outreach and education
deliverable that would satisfy all 3 concerns by bunding narrative text and
interactive maps.
18:53:02 The county could provide information about the moratorium global and state
regulations and underlying issues with breed 1,971 plats in a manner that was
pandemic safe i'm gonna switch gears here
18:53:17 and share my screen to show the story maps and my slide show we're gonna
stop.
18:53:25 I share Briefly, Then pick a new screen here. we seeing the updated screen.
We see a big page that says Draft. all right.
18:53:42 That's the one so i'm going to kind of first address before we get into the
review of the story map. how i'd like to give you all the opportunity to navigate it
i'll be allowing a
18:53:56 brief period to review the narrative, text and allow some comment there. If
there's any questions for clarification, and then i'll move on to the next section,
and when we get to the maps i'll show the Commission how these
18:54:13 maps work, and how to use them and the information that's contained within
them.
18:54:18 So we'll start here with this first paragraph the way i'll time it is i'll
just read through slowly, and then ask for a comment.
18:54:47 This one's pretty quick. Give anybody an opportunity to make a comment
here, and also any feedback on whether on your end.
18:55:01 This is legible, and if it would be helpful for me to read out loud instead
very tiny.
18:55:09 It's small apologies I don't get to see what you're seeing on your end.
18:55:16 Would it be helpful for me to proceed by reading through these, instead of
asking you all to read them?
18:55:26 Only for the public at least, and zoom in for us.
18:55:29 Yeah, Julie, you can zoom in if you're, sincerely in a few options assume.
18:55:41 Yeah, I'm: hesitant to zoom in for you all because I don't want it to
disrupt the other functions of the story map.
18:55:48 So i'm going to proceed just by reading out loud and and that's how we'll
do it So first here prior to the county's first subdivision ordinance approved on
September the seventh 1,900 and
18:56:01 71 land division occurred without meeting contemporary health, safety, and
welfare standards for Jefferson County Code and Washington State Law.
18:56:10 The following parameters are the standards by which the county assesses,
subdivisions.
18:56:20 Okay, And i'm actually gonna skip this section this is Rcw.
18:56:25 5817 0, 1 it's the purpose and these give an overview of the standards that
we're assessing subdivisions and the expectations of the environment that
subdivisions are supposed to create for people
18:56:40 to live in These are readily accessible online they're linked in the story
map, and for the sake of time.
18:56:47 I'm gonna move forward to really the meat of our content.
18:56:53 Okay, next section is expected. Growth homes constructed within old plants
do not have access to the amenities that are typically in modern subdivisions.
18:57:04 In part. This is related to old plats being created without consideration
of the above health, safety, and welfare.
18:57:11 Provisions. However, growth also contributes to accessing amenities and
services as growth projections dive, renew development is planned within our
community.
18:57:23 Continued development with an old class does not meet the Community's
vision for growth as laid out in the 2,018.
18:57:30 Jefferson County. Comprehensive plan the comprehensive plan anticipates
70%.
18:57:35 The county's growth occurring within 2 urban growth areas, and 2 master
plan resorts exhibit one dash, 2 Vm.
18:57:44 Is to the right details expected, gross throughout the county. Note that
only 30% of projected growth is planned within the rural county development within
free 1971 plats may encourage a concentration of high-density development within the
18:58:01 rural county urban growth in rural areas is not only out of step with
Washington States requirements as laid out in the Growth Management Act, but it's
also contradictory to the community's vision to preserve the
18:58:14 rural character. Any comments on that text there is. okay.
18:58:24 If I ask a question. Yes, brian i'm i'm i'm curious.
18:58:30 If the general public is the audience for this I that's one question, and
then secondarily, if they are do we think they know what so subdivision and plats
mean or is it is it intended for a different.
18:58:48 Audience. So it's intended for the general public and one of the one of the
items i've been working on along the way and developing this language is putting
together a glossary at the beginning of the story map that will
18:59:03 be available. We can hyperlink any terms that may not be sort of generally
known to that glossary and define language that is a little more esoteric for those
not in The development.
18:59:15 Field also receptive to any changes recommended to the text to make things
even more clear, independent of glossary. The glossary is not available to review
yet, but it is in the works I know if these are complicated concepts that are trying
18:59:34 to communicate, and yet, just like, wherever you can use plain language, a
lot of value understood.
18:59:47 Any other comments on this section be hearing none, and for the sake of
time gonna move on development patterns is our next subject development.
19:00:06 With an old plants has occurred gradually since the adoption of the
county's first subdivision ordinance.
19:00:12 Typically development entailed, combining multiple lots or parcels within
old plaques in order to develop a new home.
19:00:21 Recently 3 permit applications submitted to DCD.
19:00:24 Requested boundary line adjustments within old plants.
19:00:28 These applications sought to adjust property lines reach minimum septic
area requirements throughout the subdivision.
19:00:35 The intent of these projects was to allow development in mass which side
steps the public involvement process required for projects that increase density
above the zoning designation supplies within the planets, and that's all redundant
language
19:00:51 there the following interactive maps show patterns of existing development
within pre 1971 plants that's excuse me.
19:01:02 I think they misread there. the following interactive maps show patterns of
existing development within pre 1,971 plats.
19:01:11 The purpose of these maps is to show both historic development and the
potential for continued growth in areas of the community.
19:01:18 The county and the State do not envision for growth at high density.
19:01:34 Any comment on this section, hearing none. i'm going to move forward. Okay.
We're here at our first map, the location of pre 1971 plants, pre 1,971 plats are
located throughout the county in each of
19:01:48 the planning in each of the county's planning areas. This map was created
to allow exploration of all pre 1,971 plats, So, subject to the current moratorium.
19:02:00 This map allows users to do the name of each plant.
19:02:04 The recorded date, flat size, total parcels, total residential parcels, the
number of vacant or not presidentially developed parcels, and the number of
residentially developed parcels.
19:02:18 Within this information is visible by clicking within the vertical boundary
of any plan.
19:02:24 The intent of this map is to allow users to explore the location of free
1,971 plats throughout the county, and to get familiar with the basic assessment of
development patterns any comments on that
19:02:38 text. Okay, i'm gonna move on to showing us all what the myth does.
19:02:52 First we'll kind of orient ourselves just with the basic functions here,
the bottom left corner.
19:02:58 We've got a legend which really details what we have shown on the map in
purple.
19:03:06 We have free 1,971 subdivisions.
19:03:08 This big yellow area. This boundary is the county boundary, and then we
have the 2 urban growth areas designated here and shown with respect to the location
of appear, we have the collapse and expand.
19:03:26 Function. If we want to navigate our scale the we use the zoom or minimize,
and we can drag drag the map you anywhere in the county, and that it should load
faster on your own computers.
19:03:41 But while i'm running zoom the system gets a little boxed in, and then we
have this function here at home, which takes us to our original extent.
19:03:51 As we get closer you can see a little bit more in detail our flats, and
when we click on them we get information.
19:04:08 We get the pat name, the recorded date, the acres, the total number of
parcels, the total number of residential parcels.
19:04:16 So this would factor in zoning and land use codes associated with parcels.
19:04:23 So land use code, for instance, designating community space within a plaque
or natural resource areas or open space would not count toward the residential camp.
19:04:34 We have vacant or not residentially developed parcel.
19:04:38 In this case we have 5 and residentially developed parcels.
19:04:41 We have 35. This information is available for all of our plans.
19:04:49 Again. Here we have acres recorded, date, number of residential parcels,
and the number of total parcels.
19:04:58 Here we see that the whole area is designated for residential use.
19:05:04 There are a 105 properties that are not developed, and 108 that are
residentially done.
19:05:14 So that's the basic function of This map any questions about what we're
seeing there hearing none.
19:05:31 I'm going to move on to our next mantle development patterns and land.
19:05:38 Use this map uses the same data that's the previous map, but presents the
information differently.
19:05:44 This map shows a location of residentially developed gray, vacant or not
residentially developed.
19:05:50 Properties like green to demonstrate how development patterns impact land
use areas of gray indicate existing higher density.
19:06:03 Residential development areas of light green symbolized properties where
residences have not been established which are potentially available for N. Mass.
19:06:10 Development under current regulations. Any comment on this text here man
i'm going to expand our map, so we can explore a little bit more.
19:06:27 The intent of this map is to kind of ease people that use users rather into
understanding this information differently.
19:06:37 We provided the statistics in our first map and really gearing people
toward understanding where old plats are located.
19:06:45 And here we're getting a little more focused showing land use patterns.
19:06:50 So in each of our plants we have a pretty good demonstration of the pattern
of vacant or not residentially developed and developed resonance at residential
areas, and the purpose here is to provide a visual representation
19:07:08 for folks who may not be inclined to rapidly interpret statistical about
what this looks like on the ground.
19:07:17 Where are we seeing development, and where we're seeing vacant vacant or
not residentially developed areas in these old plants?
19:07:25 And also gives us the first line of understanding the the percentage of of
these old blasts that are still left to develop and giving us a scale of the or
potential problems for the future.
19:07:42 We've retained the information so if you click on the plants.
19:07:47 We have the same information available, so you can kind of help connect the
dots between what's shown spatially and what's available.
19:07:59 Statistically, any questions about this map hearing. and if you open up the
question, Yep, you described what the gray area is.
19:08:16 Is that what I'm seeing as white on the screen so I see very few green
areas with purple around them?
19:08:27 And then the rest of the county is it's kind of a white car.
19:08:30 It looks like we were back in the ice age is that what you're saying is
developed residential.
19:08:34 I don't I didn't really understand the separation sure and maybe this is an
issue where our base map is a little bit great color, so we can use a different face
map or just use aerial imagery, I
19:08:49 can't see quite which would you are all seeing on your screen. So I'm gonna
get focused here like it's much easier to read.
19:08:56 You can see the gray in the green now. Yeah. Oh, within those areas.
19:09:01 Okay, yes, just within this areas. So we've got gray being developed
resonances.
19:09:07 And we've got green as vacant or not residentially developed.
19:09:11 I understand Now, thank you any other questions here hearing that I'm going
to move on.
19:09:23 I think, to your patient. Okay, and here's our third map a closer look at,
not residentially developed, the more complex pattern.
19:09:35 Defines these maps. designation of vacant not residentially developed,
which actually contains a range of non-residential development types using data from
the assessor's office permit records and septic monitoring
19:09:50 agreements. These maps show that old plants contain a range of development
types.
19:09:56 The split screen function. This map allows users to observe the types of
improvements that the county does not consider as Presidential development.
19:10:06 This includes non-residential structures, standalone septic systems and a
combination of both before we get bogged down in the weeds.
19:10:17 In that same in the weeds of the map in that same glossary area.
19:10:22 I'm going to define and give a video tutorial on how to use the split
screen function of the map.
19:10:28 The so that when folks are encountering this language they have a way to
understand what I mean, and i'll also hyperlink to that video in this text as well,
any comments on this text hearing that i'm gonna show
19:10:52 the map we've programmed the map into kind of accidentally here to not open
the legend at first.
19:11:01 But it's available here, and we'll fix that issue on our end later.
19:11:08 Essentially. we have 2 mets going on at once we've got a toggle here.
19:11:14 Functions like this i'm going to bring it all the way to the side before we
start.
19:11:19 So we're seeing our first map which is showing the same as the previous map
as vacant and not residentially developed and develop presidences.
19:11:27 We also have some parcels marked for residential areas that could be open
space or community areas, and there are some of our plats that actually have natural
resource plans with them as well parcel 2 there excuse me
19:11:42 map to shows our parcel development range, or rather continuum of
development, that exists within these plants.
19:11:49 So, as we use the slide function, so we can actually break down and see
parcel by parcel what we mean when we're saying vant or not residentially developed
vacant plans or truly vacant plans here are
19:12:05 shown in yellow, non-residential structures only are shown in this kind of
funny, murky yellow.
19:12:15 You mustered each other, since septic systems only are shown in Brown.
Excuse me.
19:12:22 Second subject system only is shown in orange and septic system, and
non-residential structure together are shown in Brown.
19:12:30 And so this is first, to help the public understand how we determine.
19:12:38 What we mean when we say vacant or not residentially developed.
19:12:42 We don't want to just use that language sufficiently We want to show what
we did and how we did it, and give some methodological evidence.
19:12:52 And it also gives a sense of different plan uses that might be here.
19:12:57 For instance, septic system only is, might be in place to serve a
recreational vehicle for vacation, or septic system and non-residential structures
combined may be a garage with a
19:13:11 bathroom, and indicate some other kind of use of the property.
19:13:15 So in this reduced language we have a range of land uses that underlie.
19:13:24 Then we want to show that we're doing the work and making sure that we're
accurately categorizing what's on the ground?
19:13:34 3 questions on this M. I did have a comments. Okay?
19:13:47 Just the in the mustters, in the view that has all the mustards and the
various shades.
19:13:55 I I find them very subtly different. So I I guess if there were a way to
make them more clearly distinct, that might be help.
19:14:04 Yeah, we definitely are open to changing symbolology and it's relatively
easy thing to do.
19:14:12 So appreciate that feedback anything like that throughout the rest of our
maps fairly valuable as well.
19:14:21 Any other comments. Another question, But i'm I feel like this has not been
for me, so I don't know will.
19:14:31 That will they'll tell me if there is something to be quiet.
19:14:36 So i'm curious benjamin that can you explain to me the the value in
providing this level of detail to the public.
19:14:45 I can see there being a range of reactions from you know, people say, Wow!
19:14:52 I had no idea there could be a subdivision next to me.
19:14:55 I could also see people's say Well, this is this this was my property
rights before it was taken from me in a moratorium.
19:15:05 Which could be problematic, either. of those could be could you know. I
mean It's it's information that but could be weaponized, and so is there is there
other value in in the public having this this degree of information.
19:15:26 Just to clarify when you say this degree, do you mean both of these
options, or primarily the second continuum of development here?
19:15:37 I mean like i'd say there's a there's a great level of detail, like i'm
pretty adept at our gis mapping system in the county. but like it wouldn't occur to
me to like go and look at every one
19:15:51 of these and Yeah, just it's it's it's a lot more detail than I think the
public generally has or asks for seeks out.
19:16:02 So i'm wondering if there's a certain value in them having that level of
detail, I and say throughout the presentation sure interesting.
19:16:10 Yeah, So I think there's 2 different answers the the first is that this
level of detail and soon that a little bit here, for we're going to cooperate
sometimes.
19:16:26 We don't, and i'm not doubting that there is value. I just would like to
understand what it is.
19:16:32 Yeah, yes. So this level of detail is showing density, which is of primary
concern.
19:16:42 And compared to the parcels around this subdivision.
19:16:54 We get the sense that high density development. is occurring and that
there's still capacity for that density to increase in a meaningful way.
19:17:09 Particularly in parcels. Excuse me, plants like this.
19:17:11 Where the entirety of it is vacant and potentially developable through the
boundary line adjustment, which process which has kind of spurred the moreatorium.
So it gives a concrete visual representation to reach folks who may
19:17:31 not understand or be able to apply our statistics to a spatial
understanding.
19:17:38 And it also it shows that each of these plats have a slightly different
context.
19:17:46 Which is an important consideration that the community has asked us in our
outreach meetings to represent. and it clearly defines what those individual context
are.
19:18:01 So we don't have any unanswered questions People can come prepare knowing
which subdivision has which ratio of development or undeveloped parcels right or was
created.
19:18:14 Excuse me vacant or not residentially developed parcels So that's the value
of this map, and I think the value of this one is more methodological.
19:18:27 We have an an undefined and abstract term with not residentially developed;
and if we, if we define in text that might be sufficient.
19:18:38 But again, for those who may not be able to take text and apply it
spatially.
19:18:45 Our thinking here was that this helps illustrate what we mean so that we're
not leaving anybody out of time with our definitions.
19:18:59 Can I ask a niggling question sure I I have this question all along?
19:19:05 But it's just picking at my brain so when we did the comprehensive plan
first offers the point. In sense, somebody must have known this was a problem.
19:19:20 What was the thinking that we'll just but when before you address that
let's let's continue on with the presentation itself. We're right now evaluating
presentation of fry's going to make this public not so
19:19:36 much the the politics behind it of comprehensive Plans so Let's let's go on
Branches Continue to the end.
19:19:44 Let me come back to questions like Plan before I move on from this map.
19:19:51 Any other questions for me to answer that what we're put together here.
19:20:00 Okay, hearing none, i'm gonna move and the last section of this first story
map is our 5 key takeaways, and this is just a summary of the points, I think are
most pertinent to carry forward and understanding.
19:20:21 About the issue. So first we have the county's comprehensive plan
designates 70% of growth within the county with excuse me within the counties, ugas
and npr's allocating only 30% of growth
19:20:34 to the county's rural areas. development with an old plants typically
occurred gradually and at the request of individual property owners.
19:20:46 3 recent applications requested boundary line adjustments to meet minimum
land area requirements for septic systems.
19:20:54 Allowing for N. Mass. development, high-density development within old
plants side stems, public participation processes were required for projects that
increase density in the rural county, and homes within old plats do not have access
to the
19:21:10 amenities and services required within contemporary plants by health,
safety, and welfare.
19:21:20 Provision any comments on these 5 boats and they're a little bit redundant
to what we've covered already.
19:21:28 But anything is valuable. i'm curious of access to the amenities and
services required within contemporary plats.
19:21:39 Is that statement? accurate? Holmes and nobles do not have access to the
same, or to the amenities and services require that it can very class, because in
the case of that one where there was more development, they still met the health and
safety,
19:21:56 septic requirements. their feels i'm just curious about the validity of
that last we may not, instead of do not. Yeah.
19:22:11 And and those this last bullet is really tied to the language that I
skipped over in the beginning we can review the bullet points, prevent the
overcrowding of land.
19:22:27 So in this instance, our rural areas are defined by low density
development.
19:22:32 So old plats exist in this context. where contemporary subdivisions would
be that created high densities at least, would be within the Uga or Mpr's.
19:22:45 And that's the the action that you would have to take in order to create
that subdivision at least that's my understanding.
19:22:53 Lesson, congestion and streets and highways.
19:22:56 All of these i'm not gonna read to all of them just for the sake of time.
19:23:00 But these are the the standards that are not available in old plants,
because they were not assessed against these standards until we adopted our first
local subdivision regulations.
19:23:20 So all of these considerations about the location and subdivisions, and
what is provided within subdivisions.
19:23:28 Are missing the answer your question. It does. It kind of explains more
fully what those amenities include.
19:23:46 And okay, I still think it's not do not it may be made, because if one of
those plats is right next to an area that is developed, and even though it's just
outside of it, we still may have the same access the all the same
19:24:02 things, so so That's A point taken yet and also there's another point that
want to talk about could the amenities in there, or a suit of Hydrolys other
People's the amenities.
19:24:14 Where? What's What does that mean? right so it might be 2, 24 min there,
right language that you guys use all the time.
19:24:21 But right so we might want to highlight the humanities and also change that
to me.
19:24:28 Don't do it's a very absolute absolute statement and one of the things that
we have in our comp plan that will live through the whole last cycle that we
addressed was we're looking for innovative ways to be able to
19:24:42 do maybe increased density isn't going to detrimentally affect the nature
of it.
19:24:49 And that's where we've talked about you know push back a little bit in
certain ways. when It's appropriate when we we got the science behind us Yeah, like
the Ppi D's.
19:24:59 Exactly. I got questions, comment, You know. I appreciate this very much.
19:25:07 Brian, and it kind of opened my eyes I have a lot of ignorance when I comes
to what's going on here, and I'm really not understanding fully what what we're
talking about So this whole issue that cause the more
19:25:26 term says that there may not be roads accessible to properties.
19:25:29 There may not be properties large enough for septic systems is that kind of
what we're looking at here.
19:25:41 Yeah, the looking at the first the development that's already occurred So,
understanding what's on the ground and then putting the rest of these areas in
green, the context of what future issues might be, and what we're considered with
these old
19:26:04 classrooms, and we're taught are we talking about single-family residents.
19:26:12 Or are we talking about developmental communities of some sort which would
share community septic systems?
19:26:21 Roads might have to be built into. There is Is that the case here?
19:26:27 Yeah, I think really because old plats are are exist in situation, where
ingress and egress doesn't mean contemporary standards, and even through the
boundary line of adjustment, there's no since it's not a
19:26:51 subdivision process. there's limited ways to control what those ingress and
egress and ingress access points look like that kind of thing.
19:27:01 So portraying a situation where we have limited ability to bring these old
plats into compliance.
19:27:12 If any ability at all. Okay, because what i'm getting to here is how many
people own plats that will not be able to develop them. now, and in the future,
because of this issue, do we know that number we had prepared a total number of
19:27:35 parcels affected by the moratorium and Then we changed our methodology for
determining what was considered vacant or not residentially developed.
19:27:46 So I don't have that number prepared but we have received comment, and
previous outreach meetings that we need to have a preamble to this defining.
19:27:55 Clearly how many parcels are affected and clearly delineate what the issue
is, and how many horses are yet already out of the barn, so to speak. well.
19:28:10 And this is where my final two-point question is that was asked to me, and
that's why I asked you folks to bring this up, and I thank you for this.
19:28:21 As an investor in property for future development whether it's a home, or
commercial, or whatever.
19:28:29 What's that impact to me on my pocket book and 2. What's the county going
to do about it? since they've let this go on for such a long time?
19:28:43 That's going. It could put possibly financially harm individuals or
families That's my point.
19:28:50 This is a question, though, that Doesn't bear on the presentation of this
of the Brian's presenting it's an excellent question.
19:28:59 Traps, not something differential cover in this this document. Well, if he
presents us to the community, I will guarantee you he will have a lot of individuals
asking that question, and I think it should be made available to them and
19:29:14 I support, I think, to to address a little bit first saying that we're not
coming to the community with an answer.
19:29:24 We're trying to develop a tool to to encourage those kinds of questions and
create a regulatory framework which we're getting closer to an answer.
19:29:37 So So this isn't a technical exercise in telling people what is going to
happen to their property.
19:29:47 This is defining the context that surrounds their proper pretty state down
through local regulations, prior practices by the county and by critical areas and
other metrics of importance that Dma defines and requires the planning agency to
plan
19:30:09 for, and that when we will work, go ahead I was just going to say. That's a
really good What you have stated Commissioner Nielsen is something that should be in
the pream.
19:30:25 What is this? and and your answer there? Brian is a good one.
19:30:32 I mean that this is not something that tells you if your land is developed
where want to understand.
19:30:41 So we need to put that in the preamble one thing that I see that's missing
is that
19:30:46 We don't see is that well, what is the base density.
19:30:50 So if that were one dwelling there for 5 acres at typically in a lot of
these cases, twelvefold increase in density.
19:30:57 So, but that's not clear right and I think also might be good in the
presentation.
19:31:04 To mention and it was mentioned, but I don't think it's. it's clear it took
me several reading throughs and figuring things out, that it was first because these
were pre 1,971 when the
19:31:18 subdivision and definitions came out, and when they came out they had
certain guidelines that these earlier plots would not be able to combine with.
19:31:29 And then on top of that we threw Gma on it, which in now rural character,
and all these other issues that weren't included in the subdivision regulations 71
or now, but so both of them are responsible
19:31:41 for the jam that we're Now in yes, absolutely I think saying something
along those lines. because then, okay, so this is the jam we're in now as a
community.
19:31:52 How do we work our way out of it? Yeah, I just want to do a time check
cheerful.
19:32:01 I think that my last item should be dropped in those phones and next
meeting Well, Branch, I was thinking the same thing, and this is a reproductive
meeting, and i've I've I've done it very well
19:32:12 i'll consider ringing into being a half an hour you get your clock
19:32:17 Does anybody have any objection to that? Could you stay here a little bit
longer?
19:32:21 No, but I I have a final question about this. Will this be completed and
ready to go?
19:32:28 And the moratorium lifted within the next 6 months, as promised.
19:32:32 Or will we have to have an extension? The what are hopeful?
19:32:36 Yes. Well, we're we're working definitely working toward that the other
item that is really critical.
19:32:45 Is is What is the other moratorium item?
19:32:49 So that has to go forward today because we need some guidance. on that, and
that's going to a public hearing.
19:32:58 So I want to make sure that that my item is is some cleanup or unified
development code that can wait.
19:33:08 Okay, Brendan, we we do have another story map alternatively to running
through this and presenting it here today.
19:33:17 We could make these links available to the Commissioners and receive
comment on this separately.
19:33:24 If we only have 30 min left I do want to give Joel the time to to get
through his presentation so defer to you to I'm gonna stop sharing my screen, and
before I pass the baton to Joel I want to thank you all
19:33:40 for making valuable comments that's why we're bringing to you early.
19:33:50 This is by no means a finished product, and in providing the comments that
you have today, you are guiding directly the content that the public is going to
receive.
19:33:58 So thank you for participating early with us, and working through some of
the disfluencies on the story map, and we'll have more communication on this very
soon.
19:34:11 So thank you. i'm trying to move on another topic if That's why we probably
move on.
19:34:23 I just wanted to say one sentence: Thanks. okay. You can hear how many
questions we have.
19:34:29 So I want to make an opportunity in the future for us to have more of a but
Q and A.
19:34:37 Yes, thank you. ready to go. and is everyone you need to be screen sharing
on zoom as well.
19:34:52 Okay, I need to getting started here. Is everyone feeling comfortable?
19:35:16 We need a stretch. let's go okay, we get up and use that.
19:35:20 We have to okay great i'm gonna be a little more interactive switching
between this presentation and some documents that we have for the temporary housing
facilities organs.
19:35:34 So today. Wednesday, the twentieth, the notice of intent to amend the Udc.
19:35:42 And notice of planning commission public hearing for me, for our next
planning Commission meeting has hit the newspaper, and I spent the better part of
today getting it out to the agencies and uploaded on all of the cbo websites and
things
19:35:59 like that. So for now on a scheduled track for
19:36:08 The doctrine of it, housing ordinance, and go over the schedule.
19:36:12 At the end of this presentation. but what I wanted to do is to which is to
go through the staff report and the ordinance changes and the staff report lines out
the public comments we've received and then I can switch to
19:36:32 the line in lineout of the ordinance and see show you how we've addressed
them, and to see what your comments would be on that and then i'll talk about the
upcoming process, and my intention for
19:36:47 the process is to show you the growth management indicators that I included
in the staff report of my approach to answering the Gmi indicators that we typically
do for developing a recommendation letter to the Board.
19:37:03 And you know, to give you kind of food for thought Then We'll talk about
the schedule because our next meeting will have a hearing, and then the the goal is
to quickly pulled together a recommendation letter the after that a meeting well
19:37:22 to public hearing one meeting and drive Well, we'll go into more detail
about that of what we can do.
19:37:29 So So I pull up the staff report. I wonder if to go through the sepa
threshold?
19:37:37 Determination with you quickly, and then review the specific areas that
were changed in the ordinance draft.
19:37:49 Let's see, I have to get back to my here.
19:37:52 We go documents. So what I see on my screen is not what's being shared
here?
19:38:17 No, I asked it. You are screen sharing it. says yes, sir.
19:38:26 So again, There we go. Try something different. This works at the screen
down the on the blink.
19:39:06 I've got to yeah It's not responding to now, zoom and that match zoom that
which was not true from 1 s ago, and trying to bring up the Pdf.
19:39:39 And it's still on so if you stop your screen share and then start it again.
19:39:52 It'll ask you which of the windows you want to choose for this.
19:40:12 Can you give it to deliver it thoroughly there's a word.
19:40:16 I see a word document in zoom and zoom this isn't going to zoom. Okay, and
that's what we're looking for.
19:40:26 Okay, So You see the temporary housing facilities ordinance.
19:40:33 Then on your screen. I'll go directly to that and go through the ordinance.
19:40:40 That's the fastest way to get to the crux of Bill.
19:40:44 It's just not up on the screen. yeah Okay, so just to quickly note this
sepa evaluation.
19:40:53 I have issued a provisional does not significantly adversely affect
environmental resources or dns.
19:41:03 So that's the threshold decision. that we're publishing and comments will
be on the sepa threshold decision as well as the ordinance itself.
19:41:14 So I've got a couple new whereas is just to update the ordinance. with this
continued work where the interim control will expire.
19:41:24 June the twentieth, and so our schedule is to try to get to the Board for
final legislative action the week in advance.
19:41:32 On June the thirteenth and so I took out some now irrelevant, whereas
statements and so I'm gonna go down to the ordinance itself.
19:41:45 Homeless. The word homeless in referencing the facilities has been changed
to housing, so it's temporary housing facilities, which is a comment that we
discussed already.
19:42:01 Also encampments. That word was changed to facilities.
19:42:07 Comment was that encampments? has some level of derogatory nature to it in
how it's applied, And so facility with the imply structure or the the the place?
19:42:25 Yeah, the site. So we have, like, you see in item, c.
19:42:32 Temporary tiny shelter village instead of tiny House village.
19:42:37 Since the tiny houses aren't really homes their shelters, and we have tent
facilities rather than tent encampments.
19:42:52 Let's see we discussed the site requirements and the type of setbacks and
fences, or not, So I'm going to go through the site requirements.
19:43:06 The facility shall be located. Following the setback requirements, is set
forth in chapter 1,830 Jcc.
19:43:13 Which is our development standards, provided that the required setbacks may
be modified by the director.
19:43:18 If site. conditions require alternate setbacks to conform with the purpose
and related site requirements in the section.
19:43:28 What that does is it gives us rather than applying what was rather drastic
setback of 40 feet, which is not in our code, but was just applied to the
interimordinates.
19:43:40 We re referred to the standard development regulations that We've already
reviewed under our term of rural character, and
19:43:49 For Jefferson County in our implementing regulations, and then, if we allow
ourselves to look at the particular site, conditions to see if there are
opportunities to adjust the setbacks greater or lesser in order to meet this the
purposes
19:44:09 of screening, so that there aren't nuisance claims from neighboring
properties or to allow the smaller set back, if that is how the site is laid out to
the topographic plate or driveways, and
19:44:30 entrances and things like that. So item D used to be a 6 foot tall fences
required around the perimeter.
19:44:39 The we've changed that to a perimeter plan shall be developed for the
facility that accounts for site screening from neighboring land uses, and which
limits access to the site for safety and security reasons provided that the
screening does not create
19:44:55 a side obstruction at the street or street intersection.
19:44:59 So. comments we heard from cortex a city as well as housing solutions
network.
19:45:07 Is that to right off the bat require a 6 foot tall fence.
19:45:11 Around the perimeter can be prohibitively expensive and for a temporary
facility can can be a barrier.
19:45:17 So what we're really talking about. is sufficient screening and That's what
we've got in our draft here.
19:45:26 Here's the space missing between the and street in that paragraph.
Slightest description.
19:45:32 You're gonna see that a lot in this document later alone.
19:45:36 There's something about the kernel or the space between letters that gets
mixed up with this time to do Roman font, and where the whoever originated the first
document, So I've struggled over this all the time and
19:45:48 the that it's still readable we will have to fix the final print of that.
19:45:56 So f. The maximum number of residents at a temporary facility site shall be
determined by the director of taking into consideration site conditions, and the
limit has been stricken which used to be but in no case shell
19:46:12 the number be greater than 50 people i'm i'm noticing on your exterior
lighting?
19:46:19 Is there any reference to nighttime night? sky? height of that guy might
know the city?
19:46:30 For example, there's we're we're being kept pretty low and making sure
everything down which I agreed down.
19:46:36 But if it's 40 feet in the air coming down then all of a sudden you're
lighting up the night neighborhood again. Is there some?
19:46:41 We already have in our in our code, in 1,830 provisions.
19:46:45 That light cannot trespass onto the neighboring property that it needs to
be downwardly facing.
19:46:54 Yeah, okay, we don't yet have night sky level of regulations, but it's in
our comprehensive plan to consider that into the future that this is already
codified that way.
19:47:09 It's a hard one to police, though we already have some like issues around
the county.
19:47:20 Letter J. sponsor, or managing agency, shall provide and enforce rather
than code of conduct.
19:47:30 And we had comments about the code of conduct should be a grassroots and
and the communities developed thing.
19:47:38 So instead we focused on policies of developing policies for entry. the
site grievance.
19:47:49 If there's issues there and denial of service so knowing who can be denied
service, so shall provide and enforce entry, grievance, and denial.
19:48:00 A service policies which not only provides for health and safety welfare of
the facility residents, but also mitigates impacts to neighbors and going to the
bottom of that paragraph managing agency show post the
19:48:12 county approved Paulies on site. The sponsor or managing agency shall
implement a community-driven code of conduct to implement policies.
19:48:23 So our involvement is not to micromanage.
19:48:26 The conduct of that site, but that, just to make sure they have policies
for entry, grievance, and denial of service in place, we had a building committee
working on some of the details of structures and for life health, and safety
19:48:55 they recommended. We removed the tents over 300 square feet in size and
canopies in excess of 400 square beach and utilize flame.
19:49:04 Return of material. they said. take that out that's not applicable the
sheriff encouraged us to have an address.
19:49:13 We have item, new item S and emergency locator address shall be obtained by
permit from department community development to address the facility for emergency
response.
19:49:29 Now here Section 5 is where we add in all of the building code
requirements, and I'm not going to go through these in detail, but it's, for
example, they have an operable window.
19:49:44 That for ventilation that will allow you to get out and on a separate wall
from the door.
19:49:50 So yeah, yeah. So those kinds of things were taken into consideration.
19:49:57 And along with try to remove any barriers here.
19:50:02 Of success, not allowing the code to create a barrier, and in the staff
report I mentioned the the whack or the statute that the State has passed to
eliminate building code requirements from temporary housing facilities so
19:50:21 this were supported by the State law and doing it. Section 6.
19:50:26 The new section 6 frequency and duration of temporary housing facilities.
A.
19:50:32 Each facility will be limited in its service capacity to the number of
people that the site can accommodate, that is determined by the director.
19:50:41 So, instead of by an arbitrary 50 people, we look at the size.
19:50:46 How many properly spaced tents or tiny structures can be accommodated
there, and come up to just like a fire code for a building.
19:50:57 You come up with what of capacity you have, rather than an arbitrary
number.
19:51:03 So the rest is strike out of the 50. I mean, A question is . Seattle. Have
I have regulations that are, you know, are guiding this.
19:51:13 They have. They figured all of this out. Is it so that you can learn?
19:51:19 I mean? Yes. Well, I am i'm. just trying to pick something.
19:51:25 He's a close by <unknown>speaker overlap<unknown>. Yeah, and I don't think
any community has it all figured out?
19:51:31 No, it's sometimes tailored to their individual needs and see, Seattle has
more of an urban development pattern that allows them a lot more fleaway than we
have.
19:51:40 But yeah, we looked at and think somebody would never assume that for about
a square foot resident or something like that, that you know.
19:51:51 We also looked at Department of Justice has a Ada accessibility standard
for
19:51:59 The emergency services like when they invert a gymnasium into housing after
a hurricane or something.
19:52:06 There's certain spacing between cops also between tents or fema fema
trailer, So there's they have layouts there for guidance for 88 and so that is I
don't know if
19:52:23 that's in specifically in the in the ordinance here, but it would be
applied as as a site design, perimeter plan and parking plan type of consideration.
19:52:38 Let's see D is also rather than written the code of conduct. It's written
policies for entry grievance and denial of service, and that's repeated in permit
procedures to have those
19:52:59 policies and going down to section 10. Appeal. No change.
19:53:07 Section 12 a lot of strike out from the old duration and interim ordinance
text that is no longer applicable here.
19:53:24 And so that is the end of the ordinance now i'm going to switch to another
document. See?
19:53:32 If I can get that staff and court up here the question is did we do all
that we need to way to move , this thing there is the short possibility that you're
sharing you're still sharing
19:53:52 this but yes, But he left the room.
19:54:00 My head number of the problems. it's wonderful thank you okay, So I'm gonna
go down to the summary of community comments and our actions regarding those
comments can't quite get my practice.
19:54:19 Oh, still not sure. Can you get it? on the biggest thing reboot? I can't
get it to show up there as well to the screen your mind again.
19:54:36 Not Speaker: Sorry. Oh, I get it. Okay, Yeah. And okay.
19:54:48 So we have the duration of temporary shelters on site.
19:54:51 We've removed let's see we have changes for temporary siding requirements
allows residential structures.
19:55:03 I'll have to go back to the thanks the provisions were that there were
allowance for 6 months and a renewal for up to a year.
19:55:23 But then site needed to be vacated. So, responding to the comments, we and
I think, as a result of our last meeting, that we talked about this.
19:55:37 We had 2 periods of renewal, so that the tent facilities would have a
cumulative possibility if renewals are granted for 2 and a half years ending Tiny
structure, villages would have a possibility of
19:55:59 3 going to find that, and there was a limit on how long? one?
19:56:10 Yes, so renewed it. period And is is it driven that way in order to
encourage more per minute type of housing options for that parcel that we can move
people from temporary housing into a more permanent
19:56:27 housing is that the goal of find? That is, I more of a issue with creating
a defective land use.
19:56:38 If we are, if we let something continue on definitely, right? Yeah.
19:56:42 So it's to keep it, temporary so and that's one of the differences, because
when you mentioned Seattle I visited Department.
19:56:55 I worked in this, and it was always the goal was permanent housing.
19:57:01 The the least that they developed was in terms of least permanent shelter.
were essentially the equivalent of our tiny loans.
19:57:09 They've created a tiny home village encampments you know what the percent
term the tenth camps, which or was not policy, that the city was trying to adopt
communities that want that, as far as i'm aware I would think that
19:57:28 that lean whole, or, you know, especially in the residential area.
19:57:33 If you, if if you've but the encampment want to call it a residential area,
you want to give the residents that own surrounding properties at least to feel like
this is a perfect going to affect what the value when I
19:57:47 brought gonna be here for so long, and then and then somebody else gets to
share that joy.
19:57:53 You and if it's just that then it can move so that it doesn't if I go gosh
my because i'm gonna be one of the people that's gonna stand out and say it will
negatively affect a piece of property it's next
19:58:07 to if you if I have a house and somebody puts an account next to me, it's
going to negatively affect the I want to know the that's not permanent, and so I
think by giving like the time we're sitting
19:58:21 hard lengths of time. I think you possibly might. At least, light is some
of the fears of other property owners in that area, because not not everybody wants
to live.
19:58:35 Next to and home at camp. And yeah, you know not in a lot of people don't
want to live in it.
19:58:41 I would say, Yeah, I know. but but but you know you and I mentioned this in
the past.
19:58:47 I think we have to first look at our taxpayers that are paying taxes on
their properties.
19:58:56 Position really first versus in a temporary shelter because people that are
paying for the county to be able to Partially, that's all.
19:59:09 I don't share any burden yeah exactly yeah and on the flip side of this the
comments we received from the providers for the sponsors is the cost that it takes
to implement these it's hard to recover or
19:59:26 can't be recovered for just short durations and So what we have here at sea
is temporary tent facilities may be approved for a period not to exceed 100 80 days,
or 6 months the director may
19:59:40 grant 2 additional one hundred-day extensions it used to be one, and that's
something.
19:59:46 We had talked about in the last meetings. so we get up to year and a half
here, provided all conditions have been complied with in circumstances have been
changed.
20:00:01 So then at D, the temporary tiny house that that should be shelter.
20:00:15 I'll get it later. Tiny shelter villages may be approved for a period of
between 6 months up to one year, provided the sponsor and managing agency comply
with all the conditions, and for these the director may Grant 2
20:00:30 more extensions not to exceed 2 additional years, so they have a longer
side of duration towards it.
20:00:40 The structures 2 and a half. So I think I heard Kevin getting it a question
that i'm not sure about answered.
20:00:48 So we have a site that the county owns we somebody might be able to.
20:00:56 The using the that site for 2 and a half or 3 years, whatever the
extensions might lead up to.
20:01:04 And then we're not converting that to long-term housing.
20:01:08 We're taking a break, and then it becomes potentially used in this way
again, let's not determine it. it's not determined so it's just kind of approached
so one of
20:01:19 the in one of the consent agenda items put in what they went to the board
with.
20:01:29 So they want to purchase that site So we're talking about No, no, no.
20:01:34 Yeah, and so that so? and so they were there's a discussion of the options.
20:01:39 And so you look at the consent Agenda item called Coswell Brown.
20:01:44 That's the low website But that's a specific site as a post to, I mean Yes,
if a site were going to be used again, How long does it have to sort of be
dismantled and then become temporary yeah, those are all questions
20:02:02 you're going to have to answer that's the copper I will get on that.
20:02:05 But I was thinking, just coming to your way that's an important detail.
20:02:10 Cool it's convenient 5 years the staff report talks briefly about this
really has to be thought of as a continuum of service, and I had a hard time just
staying focused on just temporary facilities.
20:02:24 That's all we're doing here is temporary right. but we can't ignore the
fact that they are temporary, and we're going to have to look for transitional
housing we're special support services and
20:02:35 housing those kinds of things and and there's not a lot available.
20:02:41 So that's the the next part when we're working on stock plans, or maybe
provisions, and things like that affordable housing part of this.
20:02:54 So we've back to the comment matrix we've dealt with duration of temporary
shelters on the site we've dealt with to ensure the number of people allowed in the
facilities meets the need by
20:03:08 making it more flexible to meet the site holding capacity rules of conduct.
20:03:15 We've addressed fixed definitions. in the text and this is something that
we can't necessarily do. regarding kitchen cooking facilities and food handling.
20:03:33 We still have the state requirements that if you have a people staying on a
property, you have to provide public water.
20:03:44 So you have to have a public water system of some sort, and you need to
provide sanitation.
20:03:52 So. those are things are regulations that we could not relax their singing
comments. The county should create. Norden sets responsive to the needs of our own
shelter neighbors and reflect compassionate response and our
20:04:14 ordinances intended to meet that purpose, and planning conditions rather
than requiring perimeter fencing.
20:04:21 Consider the fencing as one of several ways to be objectives of the overall
security plan.
20:04:26 So we've changed our fencing to a perimeter plan, and on-site parking
requirements are still there for the managing agency.
20:04:44 And And then another thing that we did not do or 2 things we did not do in
this ordinance that we've discussed in our meetings.
20:04:55 What is the talking about? safe parking lots looking at the state code?
20:05:03 And it's in the staff report already. this date allows religious
organizations or nonprofits to establish temporary, homeless facilities and safe
parking lots.
20:05:14 And they also limit the ability of a local jurisdiction to put up barriers
for that There's There's just very little a county can do other than changes to the
ordinance that would have directly.
20:05:32 Addressed life and safety issues. So that wasn't something that I dealt
with in any reasonable I ready tangible way in the ordinance.
20:05:43 Just let they are occurring and and the State code allows them to occur,
and we don't have to create county code around so the second item was allowing, and
this
20:06:00 is in in the model of the Kitsap County, allowing people to have or host
homeless on their property, either to tense or one Rv.
20:06:14 And out in wherever it may be in the county when I talked to kids up about
that, they said they've had the that regulation for 3 years, and no one has applied
for that.
20:06:27 So it's it's it's not used and then, when I spoke with environmental health
department, they said, Yeah, but you need to have public water in sanitation
facilities.
20:06:40 And so also discussing the staff report is that we're trying to have an
equitable outcome in how we cite these, so that people have connectivity with
services to they can be provided with, services and so that requirement of these
20:06:59 off-site in the hinterlands. but you need to provide social services was
going to be difficult to meet, so I did not address that in this ordinance services
20:07:15 The ability to host your own tens oh, so what we're seeing now is we have
pets place in Peters place in the Mill Road site.
20:07:24 They they're well located, so that there's equitable outcomes, and how
we're citing things.
20:07:32 Yeah, transportation. So I Yeah. And then, looking at the point in time,
counts and trying to understand the level of service.
20:07:40 If you will of you know 180 people. maybe it's an average of 75 people at
point in time counts, but it's been up to 180 or so I was looking at Pets place
20:07:53 Peters Place Mill Road and we're about at a serving about a 100 people.
20:08:01 It's more than what the the shelter at the Legion Hall was serving.
20:08:07 They had an average of 25 people there regularly so that's a question.
20:08:14 That is left as an unanswered question it's in my sepa evaluation of things
that are still challenging, or be an issue.
20:08:25 So you can read my sepa report and staff report for similar background on
that.
20:08:32 And so what we've done is gone through the code in detail. I'm just going
to wrap up here and go through the schedule or the point out where the growth
management indicators are and for you to review on your own and I hope everyone was
able
20:08:58 to get these but I hurt that's some of the documents didn't the formatting
got lost they'll be good.
20:09:06 It's like a corruption so we don't know if I was on the link for more than
about 10 min, because it kept going.
20:09:15 Internal error can get to your information. I doubt if the real Yeah, could
you download it?
20:09:20 And then it gives you a computer there also that wasn't that's intended to
give you access.
20:09:29 You can download it. I think maybe that I was trying to offer it live So we
go through the Jefferson County comprehensive plan.
20:09:37 Goals and policy. I just wanted to point out that I included some
background on rural character and real development.
20:09:44 Not that that's the the big picture. here it's more the housing element.
but there may be some reference to this about nuisance claims, and and how this fits
in with our sense of world of the rural
20:10:00 character. And so there are some references to the comprehensive plan about
world development and real character.
20:10:09 To answer that part of the question of Are these appropriate in certain
places or not appropriate?
20:10:16 Then we go to the housing element of the comprehensive plan. We have some
direct goals and policies to do this kind of work as well as
20:10:26 Other housing issues that are attendant to this kind of work, too, of team
of material.
20:10:36 And what won't go into where this will modify the code.
20:10:40 I do have some information, but I think we're it's not useful for the time
we have left.
20:10:47 The so Here we go where our findings are findings for a board initiated
Udc.
20:10:54 Amendment. And so this is what I would like for the planning commission to
look at and be prepared.
20:11:04 After the hearing, too. create start creating your findings i'm writing
down on paper and bring them with you next meeting after the hearing, and we can
start to home these findings and add your your information to it.
20:11:25 Yes, I will be here at the next meeting, and I will be gone.
20:11:30 After that will be done more in May and one of the things that's really
important to me about this is that we in our let not in the regulations, but in the
letter to that we send to the borough county commissioners I assume we can't
20:11:46 build it in the regulations. actually i'd like to but what happened with
the marijuana regulations was that we were developing regulations, but we had no
experiences on the ground at all.
20:11:57 I'd never have legal marijuana and we didn't know what it was gonna look
like.
20:12:01 So we said at the time, in 2,015 that we wanted to review, have an
opportunity to come back and review those regulations.
20:12:12 But we didn't. really codify that so then when you know the community
started having problems with some of those regulations that we didn't get quite
right.
20:12:20 People got a lot right. We just didn't get it all right They had to.
20:12:26 They had to spend their money against the county, and we had to fight the
Commissioners to get that opportunity.
20:12:34 I would like an opportunity built into this to say we've never done this
before.
20:12:38 Let's come back in 5 or 7 years a matter of gonna plan, and we're gonna do
it.
20:12:45 So we're not the community isn't fighting to do that to say okay, and 75 or
7 years.
20:12:50 Whatever the number we decide is, we agree that we will come back.
20:12:53 We will have a body of experience that we can then review this work and and
tweak it.
20:13:01 I don't think it should be that long ago. and it's not that i'm open to
another.
20:13:08 So it's not necessary right because we got regular compound in the cycles.
20:13:13 We have the fight to get to look at the marijuana regulations in a comp
amendment cycle of one of the problems is that we should be doing this with a lot of
different right it's
20:13:29 not it's not just this sort But that's also why we do it on a regular
basis?
20:13:32 Now if it would be great, as if we were funded to do it on right. So this
is State mandate to the right fund. This is the problem, because I look at our
density bonus position.
20:13:41 But you really you visit that, it being used right one of their goals was
to create affordable housing.
20:13:48 Think it's been used once and a prd and how often does that make use right?
20:13:51 So those are the types of things we're supposed to look at but I like to be
able to come back to the county commissioners in 3 years.
20:13:58 5 years, 7 years, whatever and say we we wrote you and recommend it when
we, since our letter of recommendation to you that we review this, and now it's
time. right?
20:14:12 Yes, right now you've heard the message good so that does get put into
legislation.
20:14:17 Consider that for your recommendation I Yeah. So look in this step just for
everyone.
20:14:24 Make a note staff report required. findings and i've got start here for
you.
20:14:32 I put in my findings about circumstances, or, you know, need for change.
20:14:38 Those kinds of things, and how it fits in with the comprehensive plan.
20:14:42 So last i'm going to ship to the skull here real quick.
20:14:47 This is a project document, was Mike schedule planning.
20:14:55 Pretty! these are the steps required to move this through
20:15:04 So at the top of this you can see Wednesday.
20:15:07 Make. fourth is the planning commission public hearing I toilet with the
idea of extending the hearing.
20:15:17 Comment period is may 6, but that didn't work so the hearing we recommend
closing the comment period at the end of the hearing on May fourth, and that gives
us the opportunity to develop the recommendation letter.
20:15:35 The interesting thing about working between planning Commission and Board
of Commissioners is that we need to have a.
20:15:42 I can consent. agenda request due by Tuesday of the week in the dance of
the Board meeting on the next following Monday.
20:15:49 My recognition meets on wins, so it throws in another week in a schedule
just for trying to mesh those 2.
20:15:56 So we can fudge a little bit with the board of Commissioners office and
submit something into the board's packet by Thursday.
20:16:07 So my goal with the planning commission is to have after the hearing.
20:16:12 On Wednesday to be able to develop that letter and and have the chair.
20:16:21 Sign it following day. What J. is this? the eighteenth?
20:16:27 That would be 19 the nineteenth. Yeah. Why is leader? Why is it being
compressed in just such a short sideway?
20:16:35 But we would have a hearing, and then the following meeting is the
eighteenth to be able to get it done.
20:16:41 The following planning commission meeting and It's because the interim
regulation is running out on June. 20.
20:16:48 Yeah, that's our our that's we could have an extra meeting, So we're having
that the hearing the 4 first meeting in May, having the discussion generation of the
letter and the next being in May Yeah, may 8
20:17:10 teenagers work correct? Yeah, Yeah. And so if we could.
20:17:16 Yeah, I think that's it doesn't sound as bad as what I was thinking, and
i'm making sure I've got all my the rest of the plan here.
20:17:25 So we we but get our agenda to the board for and here notice has to be sent
by the twentieth that we have to get a approval for a hearing that from the board
the week in advance so we're
20:17:41 kind of floating some things, and that we could discuss with the Board in
their briefing session.
20:17:48 But but the goal, then, is to line up a hearing for board, and June sixth.
20:17:58 So does it put all of the homeless these out of compliance that if it
doesn't no well we have another week, the twentieth.
20:18:07 But I don't want to force the board's hand saying you've got to adopt
something today.
20:18:11 Otherwise there's be a problem I want to give them a week.
20:18:16 Yeah, the other alternative is to extend the interim control.
20:18:18 Again. which is just extra work when we're this close so we passed many.
20:18:27 We've got time, but we do just need to be efficient with their time, and so
that tells me I need to provide you if you need to do that.
20:18:36 And so if you have not yet looked at the staff. report do so, and and think
about your findings, that's that's kind of the next step for you come to the next
meeting. Yeah, Yes, and you'll have a hearing too.
20:18:54 So. Yes, you still have Yeah, because the public's implicit may change
something as well.
20:18:57 Yes, yeah, so does it give the public enough input i'm not trying to be.
20:19:02 I'm just saying like, you just want to be careful not to compress something
so so closely that it looks like something's trying to get shoved through This is
kind.
20:19:12 Of the third time around with this we've had 2 interim controls, and we've
done out for each.
20:19:18 And this is the final. So could do an article chat cheating the track, and
then said, Highlight, this I think it I mean.
20:19:29 I think it helps you guys as far as not to look like you we're looking
something.
20:19:36 Yeah, Yeah, because it's not I think a lot of be here.
20:19:41 What I don't know about this I Hear about it and how can they push it
through so quickly?
20:19:45 Do we get solar bill of goods and I think the transparency goes away if
it's it's too quick.
20:19:51 Yeah, that's it that's all that's what I see so i'm done and got a question
just in terms of notes.
20:20:03 I was, I brought it and was reading the community, Tiny home community
housing Action team, the helping solution of network letter of April twentieth,
which is today.
20:20:16 And I thought in overall i'm on their emailing list.
20:20:20 I talked to a member today. they are really really impressed and happy with
the bolt of what has been produced.
20:20:29 But they have just some very tiny specific things and so I I can't imagine
that i'm sure they will present at the hearing this letter.
20:20:40 They'll have this letter as a part of the record or or when my I can
imagine, like one of them is that the languages around background checks needs to be
adjusted like that's gonna be a recommendation of my that
20:20:57 we take their I forgot to tell you so these major things we could have in
this past. the next meeting.
20:21:03 No i'm telling you he's asking ahead because he wants to have our findings
ahead of time.
20:21:06 So I'm telling him we did that I am likely to find what they find in those.
20:21:13 These are tiny tweets, and so if you want to if you want to anticipate that
in the the preparation of a draft finding it's likely that that would be yeah, and
certainly if you're able to review it before you lead and
20:21:28 you sign your findings into them, then we can incorporate that into the
rest.
20:21:32 Well, I have written you know what i'm saying is we're not going to change
anything before, because it's already gone out to the public.
20:21:38 But when we build the findings is when these look at it down, you'll be at
the next meetings. that right? Yes, but I won't be at the next right right.
20:21:47 So you have my time to make sure you get information, too, and I missed
that strike out.
20:21:51 We took out an old paragraph about warrants and things.
20:21:55 Okay, it wasn't changed and and met with housing solutions that would as
well.
20:22:06 I'm trying to find it here to show you it's fine But yeah, So I think we're
good.
20:22:14 Yeah, Okay, thank you for your thoughtful attention and feedback good work
and sorry that we that's pretty late here tonight.
20:22:24 But gave you a full meeting. We get excited when the Board of the Pet Comic
Mission are very useful.
Chat:
18:07:00 From Arlene Alen : Richard you did not call on me however I am on
the call and have been since before it was functioning
18:07:07 From Arlene Alen : Please mark me as present
18:12:12 From Matt Sircely : We’ve often discussed the meaning of a consent
agenda. Truth is, if we ask for less information, someone will complain in the
future. Best to be aware of the definition of consent agenda. Background - we
appreciate it. I’m happy to hear about the good news regarding big/little quil.
18:35:52 From Matt Sircely : I’m willing to help w/ stock plans if needed
18:55:11 From Matt Sircely : Note to all (not to interrupt the
presentation). Chris L says she would also be willing to review stock plans within
the 90 day window.