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HomeMy WebLinkAboutclosed_caption17:01:35 Would you say, Carolyn? Oh, I I went ahead and started av capture, and we're about to hit record on zoom. 17:01:41 Okay, 17:01:47 Well, it's 5 o'clock. the gangs all here and I see a lot of folks jumping into the meeting on the attendee list, so let's get started i'll call this meeting of the Jefferson County Board of 17:02:02 commissioners to order, and the first thing we have in our agenda is a tribal common period. and The first thing I'd like to do is get a sense of how many folks from our tribal partners are here to 17:02:21 comment. I saw 17:02:29 Could you raise one? I see, Dylan. I see you, Dylan. 17:02:33 Okay, i'd point out share that we had a written comment from from the point of point treaty council as well. 17:02:49 Caroline and I were just trying to figure out time time frames. 17:02:53 So. I think, in the interest of giving the tribes more more time to make their comments. 17:03:02 Let's have the tribes raise their hands if they want to testify, and we'll give you up to 7 min for testimony. 17:03:16 It might be worth mentioning. What the meeting is about and that we're not planning to make a decision today. 17:03:21 This isn't the hearing that we're just taking comment and providing some information to to determine our next steps and 17:03:39 So we have 2. no shooting areas, 3, no shooting areas that have been proposed in 2 geographic areas, 2 different proposals for Cape George and one for the gardener beach area. 17:03:54 And so we will be considering comments on those tonight. 17:03:58 And reviewing the proposals that have been made and talking about what next? steps we're gonna take as a board to more fully consider those proposals. 17:04:10 So. I think i'm gonna leave the details to fill up when he makes his presentation. 17:04:16 And we Will start with Tribal comments and I think we're starting with Dylan because I saw his hand up. 17:04:28 And thank you, Dylan, for your patience with me and figuring out how to one of these meetings so new format. 17:04:40 So don't look. go ahead and have to accept the promotion of panelists, and if they can identify what tribes are from that would be helpful for me. 17:04:49 So if anybody else is here representing any of our tribal partners, please raise your hand if you want to testify, and we'll bring you over and you'll have up to 7 min to testify once We bring you 17:05:01 over, 17:05:07 Dylan, you're gonna need to accept your promotion to panelist on the zooms platform 17:05:19 He looks like he left the meeting again he's i've seen them reappear a couple of times now, so I'm not sure he's having technical difficulties, but he's always welcome to call in and that works, 17:05:29 better. Okay. 17:05:38 Yeah, I don't see him here now, 17:05:49 Maybe we will take public comment now. and then, Oh, I see there he is! 17:05:55 He's back. great don't it looks like you're here, and you're unmuted if you wanna turn your camera on or not. 17:06:03 That's up to you you're muted again. 17:06:08 But you'll have 7 min for comment on these proposals perfect, just a second. 17:06:15 I was driving, and I pulled over at a great location that had 0 reception. So i'll be just a second to get myself situated. 17:06:23 , Okay, 17:06:27 And we don't try Yeah, here we go I can I can jump in now, hey? 17:06:34 Everybody, can. you? Can you hear me? Okay, Yeah, we can hear you just fine. 17:06:39 Okay, perfect. I I will say, please forgive me for not being at the office and and fully prepared. 17:06:46 I have never attended one of these county. No shoot zone hearings either, and sometimes, the tribes will not weigh in, because we have a government government consultate or excuse me. 17:06:57 Government government relationship. But in this case i'm pretty happy to talk here on behalf of the point of one treaty council the point. 17:07:06 No point. Treaty Council is a natural resources consortium that works to try. 17:07:10 That would be the port gambles column Kingston area and Jamestown's column drive in Berlin. 17:07:18 Just southeast of swim and so I have comments and objections to 2 of the proposed no shooting zones. 17:07:28 I'll start with the cape George colony and In that case there was 2 proposals there's a much smaller proposal that I think, was the first of in terms of date. 17:07:39 That it was proposed to the county commissioners, and then there was a larger. 17:07:44 No shoots on the is proposed a bit later, and my primary objection is to the second of those no shoot sounds the larger, more expansive one and the real issue. 17:07:54 And here is the fact that that encompasses a Dnr parcel of around 230 acres and 17:08:06 And looking at that site, it's It seems like treaty rights are going to be diminished. 17:08:12 If there's no longer access to hunting on those public lands, it's a pretty large block of contiguous property. 17:08:19 There's a no shoots on to the south. that protects a more dense housing area to the south, and then the east and west sides are almost entirely undeveloped, and so I hope that the of commissioners would potentially 17:08:31 consider moving forward only on the smaller of those 2. No shoot zones, or might make a carve out for that parcel of Dnr. 17:08:40 So that treaty rights could be continued on that parcel 17:08:48 Any any questions for me on that. No, I appreciate that. 17:08:53 And I I did read that that that reflects your written comments as well. 17:08:57 So appreciate you showing up, though. and adding your voice to this session. 17:09:04 Yeah, thank you. Do You have a great Gregor, Kate? 17:09:08 Do you have any questions for Dylan? I I think he may be wanted to go on, and we just was done with that one. 17:09:14 Okay. correct? Yeah. And then, if there's no questions about the Cape George Colony, I will shift to the gardener boat launch, and this this one was a little bit trickier. 17:09:27 So treaty rights on private land are are less defined in Federal law, 17:09:32 Whereas it's it's the the precedent on public land is is pretty clear, but our concern on private land is that this is a parcel that there is very limited hunting access to but there is in fact, 17:09:49 hunting access in that no shoot zone not on the boat, ramp itself, but on the on the lagoon and the private land that sits to the east southeast of the boat, launch and what struck me as 17:10:02 it's pretty odd about the situation. is that it is the only no shooting zone in the gardener community, and it's the it's one of the very few undeveloped pieces of that property and it strikes me as strange that there 17:10:15 wouldn't be a no shoot zone over the more densely populated area, and the beaches associated with those, and that this undeveloped parcel that's going to have probably the lowest density of people 17:10:23 and is private land, and is not a public beach? within be considered for no shoot zone, hey? 17:10:33 Maybe somebody else can speak to the the private land aspects of that area. 17:10:38 But my understanding is that just not a public beach it's a privately owned beach that shouldn't be used by the public or or local landowners to recreate on and the landowner out there does in 17:10:50 fact, try and discourage use by trespassing. 17:10:55 Hunters and other folks are recreating out there. 17:10:58 So I hope that as commissioners, that you all will maybe take this back to drawing cable and think about where we need to be prioritizing the hunting zones and make that places that really are not safe for hunting as opposed 17:11:08 to places that have very limited hunting by a limited number of people, and can actually be done safely. 17:11:15 So thank you and I'm I'm here if you have any other questions. 17:11:23 Any questions for Dylan on the gardener. proposal. 17:11:29 No, thank you. You know the the written comments John exactly with what you said today, so it's very clear. 17:11:34 I appreciate, Appreciate that the point of point. travel Council meeting Council we weighing in on this excellent Thank you for having me appreciate it. 17:11:45 Thanks so much, Dylan. So now, I i'm gonna ask if there are any other tribal members who have arrived in the last few minutes. 17:11:56 Who would like to make a public statement about these 3. 17:12:02 No shooting area proposals if you're here and interested from a tribe and interested in making a a statement. 17:12:12 Please raise your hand in the zoom, using the raise hand button at the bottom of the zoom screen 17:12:22 See any other names that I know. But okay so it looks like what we'll do now is move on to public comments. 17:12:34 And we're gonna take public comments on all 3 of the proposals. 17:12:38 So if you're here to make a comment on any of the 3 proposals either the gardener Beach area proposed no shooting area proposal, or that larger Cape George. 17:12:51 No shooting area proposal or the smaller Cape George. 17:12:56 No shooting area proposal. Please raise your hand, using the raise hand button at the bottom of the zoom screen, and we will bring you over in the order that you show up on the with your hand. 17:13:08 Raise on the participant attendees list so I see hands starting to go up and 17:13:14 I'll make that announcement again. okay after a few folks go. 17:13:19 So let's start here, and You will each person will have up to 3 min for public comment. 17:13:24 So carolyn we'll keep track of that and let us know what you're at the end of your time. 17:13:32 Alright, I'll bring it over and Missy Marie first, and then queue up, Chris, and then the third up will be Mark 17:13:42 We'll have to excite the promotion to panelists. once you receive it, you'll see a little box on your screen that says you are being promoted to panelists, and you'll need to accept you'll need to 17:13:57 push the accept button on that 17:14:01 Maybe while folks are figuring that out, too, We could say that. we're gonna be getting a a presentation from our civil deputy prosecuting attorney with a lot of details. 17:14:12 So people have a lot of questions. They might want to wait until after that presentation. 17:14:15 There will be a lot of information shared and then There's another opportunity for public comment at the end of the meeting. 17:14:22 Thanks, Kate. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak. 17:14:25 Can you hear me? Okay, We can hear you great thanks I just wanted to say so. 17:14:29 I'm a cape George resident and We are I am actually here with my parents, who have property, and my godmother, who has property and none of us support a shooting area anywhere near Cape George one of the things that We love 17:14:45 about living out here is having the beautiful wildlife and 17:14:50 A lot of us have pets here that get very upset when we hear the shooting. 17:14:54 We heard shooting last week, and it was just caused a lot of stress for anybody. 17:14:59 When it happens, and so we just support a no shooting ban for both Cape George. 17:15:04 Lots. Thank you. thank You and chris you're up next cause you'll need to unmute using the unmute button and 17:15:21 You'll start video there. we go and you'll have 3 min for comment. 17:15:26 No problem. my name is Chris Easter day and I'm. 17:15:28 On the board of the Cape George community, and I just want to say that I had been the one to deliver this petition to have a nose shoot area. 17:15:40 I agree with the last caller that we've had some shooting incidences that the police have been out here for. 17:15:46 But couldn't do anything and it was dangerous we live in a very populated area. 17:15:52 The person who shot the gun off could have hit anybody at any time or any neighbors. 17:15:58 So really we're so we're pro for the no shoot area, and for those reasons to make our community safe. 17:16:07 And this is not just hunters or people. out. This was some an incident where actually the gun was fired at 4 o'clock in the morning, claiming to have shot their dog. 17:16:21 The police came out because we are not in an ocean area. 17:16:24 There was no accentation marketing we're having your yeah, your audio is is something in front of your speaker. 17:16:36 Finger was Oh, sorry, is it better now? . Oh, sorry I'm Not sure. You got all that. 17:16:45 We got up until 4 4 o'clock in the morning Oh, 4 o'clock in the morning, and the gun was fired. 17:16:49 It was randomly fired, so it could have hit any neighbors police were called, or the sheriff's office, and again they couldn't do anything because this is not declared a no shooting area. 17:17:01 All our citizens once be safe and I there's no reason in a residential area as depth as this is to have that kind of access and or not shoot zone, Thank you, thank you, alright mark will be next and 17:17:21 then, Lynn: Okay, Did Did that actually work? Okay. 17:17:31 My name is Mark Fair. i'm also a resident of Cape George. 17:17:36 And let's just say my point of view is diametrically opposed. 17:17:39 And this is Easter days we've had this is this incident happened about a year to a year and a half ago. 17:17:46 The best research I could come up with is a very previous instant. 17:17:50 That was probably 10 years ago. The No shoot petition is really a solution looking for a prep. 17:17:56 We do not have a negligent discharge of firearms. Problem in Cape Georgia is arguably one of the safest places, probably on the planet. 17:18:06 The the petition is a little misleading I think in the sense that while many people may have signed it, a petition does not account for people who might be opposed, and so there's a whole lot of people who either think 17:18:16 it's a Non-problem, or whose voices are not going to be hurt. 17:18:22 Thirdly, there are already statutes on the books for the in the revised Court of Washington that deals with the negligent discharge of firearms and reckless endangerment, and if a discharge 17:18:32 incident happens, and say, a both goes through a neighbor's wall. Well, now, you've just passed the threshold for criminal prosecution under either of these statutes the no shoot zone is really just a question of piling on and 17:18:46 doesn't add anything. The bottom line is that the issue petition is not going to do anything to increase public safety or general safety within our neighborhood, and it effect it. 17:18:57 Kind of it creates a a presumption of guilt before innocence. 17:19:00 It removes the the presumption of innocence before the facts reported. Because I i've lived here for 4 years, and twice I have had neighbors call me to ask them to potentially dispatch and injured a wounded 17:19:13 deer in their yard. We know from contact with Jefferson County sheriff's office. 17:19:19 That for good reasons that's low on their priority list we get it 17:19:23 But at the same time it's I think wrong to let an animal suffer unnecessarily because of some emotional sensitivities of my neighbors. 17:19:31 So there's a problem. So again this does nothing to improve safety. 17:19:37 There are already finds for the negligent discharge of a gun within the Cape George governing documents; and and lastly, to some extent, I think this petition and and no shooting thing is somewhat personally, 17:19:51 motivated. the gentleman involved in that incident holds to a political view that is antithetical to a lot of Cape George, and a lot of people simply don't like him, and I cannot escape the conclusion that some of 17:20:04 this is personally motivated. so given. the fact that much of this kind of behavior is already covered under Washington State statute that this will do nothing to improve safety within Cape George. 17:20:15 And most importantly, we don't have a discharge problem here. 17:20:20 This petition really isn't worth the board's consideration 17:20:29 I was saying. Thank you for your comments, Mr. There I see 17:20:36 I think that's the same chris whose hand was raised or was just testified, and I I we're just giving people one opportunity to testify tonight. 17:20:49 , to comment, Sorry. And Lynn is up next. 17:20:55 Yeah, hi, I i'd actually like to respectfully disagree with Mark. 17:21:07 I believe that the issue here is really about really about physics. 17:21:13 Part of the problem is that whether a firearm is discharged intentionally, unintentionally, with competence or with outcome competence, or even maliciously or not, the issue is about the 17:21:24 unpredictable trajectory of bullets and in deskly populated areas. 17:21:32 You have no shoot zones for that particular reason. 17:21:36 In the instance where mark referred to a bullet going through someone's home, or through a wall at that point the risk is already realized. and it shouldn't really be realized in the first place, I am a cape George 17:21:54 resident. I I think that we have to have a more balanced view on this. 17:22:00 But I you know I understand the varying opinions. 17:22:02 But I do think it does come down to not a criminality or not, or even confidence or incompetence. 17:22:12 I think a lot of this has to do with safety risk mitigation, and specifically you know ensuring that in you know, in neighborhoods we don't run the risk of a of a trajectory of a 17:22:28 bullet that, even experts cannot tell you that they can produce. 17:22:33 So that's just my 2 cents thank you thanks for your comments, Lynn. 17:22:40 I see, I see yeah i'll bring over Hardy, and then John will be queued up next, and we are. 17:22:48 We're not taking another set of comments from folks if they've already made them. 17:22:58 So I see hands going up again. We wanna hear from as many people as possible 17:23:06 We do have another public common period at the end of the meeting. but I think that was granted. 17:23:10 If there was time. correct. Heidi: Yeah. And if, after hearing the materials you want to make more common after during the presentation, we will take comments at that time from people who are commenting now 17:23:32 So are we gonna hear from Harvey next. yeah can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear you and you have 3 min for public comment. 17:23:43 I think there's probably not a single region or district or city that isn't covered by laws protecting people from shooters, and, as we know from the wave of shootings in the last decade particularly those laws don't 17:23:58 stop people and anything any other kind of ordinance that we can have that might help in that. to make people more aware of not shooting would be really important. and we've just moved to Cape George from Boulder and Bold is one of 17:24:15 those communities where people never thought about shootings very much because it wasn't that kind of a community, and as you may remember. But a year ago 17:24:24 There was a mass shooting in a grocery store that killed, I think, about a dozen people. 17:24:32 And so anything, every community you know it has the first time for some kind of discharge that leads to a to a death or injury that way, and to to simply say that because there are other laws but that's enough I don't 17:24:48 think, is enough. Anything that we can do to have more awareness about the dangers of shooting is a really important thing to do. 17:24:56 So I would support the No shoot. Thank you, thank you for your comments, Mr. 17:25:02 Stone. we're gonna hear from John John Dwyer next. 17:25:07 But if there's anyone else out there who hasn't already made a comment in this first public comment, period, please raise your hand, using the raise hand button at the bottom of the zoom screen. 17:25:17 Then we'll go through our presentations and we'll have discussion, and then we'll have another period for public comment at the end of the meeting. 17:25:29 So we were interested in hearing from people we haven't heard from yet here, initially alright, I John Dwyer up next, and then i'm gonna bring it over in slain and Grecian Cooper to queue 17:25:39 up, next 17:25:48 So, John Dwyer, he's okay I am unmuted 17:25:55 I am going to totally agree with the with Harview on on his. 17:26:00 What he had to say I'm also on the board of trustees here in Kate George. 17:26:06 And I'm Sorry to disagree with mark on these things I don't care if the individual does a Republican, a Communist Socialist, a Democrat. 17:26:19 We we just don't need discharge of guns in our neighborhood period. 17:26:23 You can say that this is vendetta against an individual who 17:26:30 People will have an issue with and that's fine and dandy, a lot of people may have an issue with them, but discharging a gun at 4 o'clock in the morning. 17:26:42 Not just once, but 8 times. I heard it i'm just up the whole from them. 17:26:48 Any laws that we can have to try to put it in place to stop people from doing this, or at least to try to mitigate it. 17:26:59 I welcome. And so you know I understand there's a lot. laws out there adding one more is not gonna hurt them. 17:27:07 Thank you very much. Thank you for your comments, Mr. Dryer. 17:27:11 We appreciate hearing your perspective and I think you're next and you'll have 3 min for public comment. 17:27:18 Thank you, and I wanna thank you for arranging this opportunity to be able to do this from home. 17:27:24 I want to be on record on support of the garner beach. 17:27:30 No shoot area. I am a resident at landowner and 17:27:35 I live fairly close by to the lagoon. My horse barn is within a few 100 meters, 300 yards. 17:27:43 The it has become. The lagoon has become a more popular spot for hunters or shooters. 17:27:49 In the last few years. few times during waterfall season. 17:27:55 This year, this past January or so, there were weekends where there were shooters there, shooting repeatedly for 5, 6, 7 h at a time. 17:28:04 I have livestock it's terrifying to them but in addition, 17:28:10 The shooting that was happening seemed to be I i'm not very educated on the whole hunting thing, but it seemed very unsafe 17:28:19 They were shooting toward Garden Beach road on several occasions and Walkers people out for a walk with their dog, or whatever come down and are not seen if you've driven the road before when you're in the 17:28:33 lagoon area you can't see the road specifically if people are coming, it's a blind spot. 17:28:41 There have been shooters who have shot across the road into my neighbor's yard. 17:28:46 We've heard the gunshots strike the trees across the lagoon, , after the cheating episodes. 17:28:55 This this winter I went down to the the beach area. 17:28:59 Lagoon area and picked up shotgun shells because I was concerned about how far that shot wouldn't go, whatever it hurt my horses. 17:29:10 I didn't know how far the distance the range was and I brought those shells into local gunshots that shops to ask the experts there how far would it travel. 17:29:21 The the the best answer I could get I mean They wouldn't give a specific number, because it depends on environmental conditions and all sorts of things, but they gave me a 150 yards, but some of those shots would be 17:29:35 traveling, and they said it probably wouldn't injure your horse but still it could. 17:29:41 It could travel that far you know wouldn't kill him but that didn't seem very reassuring to me, and I I just wanna make one more response to the earlier. 17:29:52 Fellow. maybe he was dealing saying it's not very popular populous area at the Lagoon, and I would agree with that. 17:29:59 But it's very well used by dog walkers. by children on the beach by people just out enjoying 17:30:08 Then the the beach area and there are surrounding homes. 17:30:13 That are affected. Many of the neighbors came together. for the first time since I've lived here around this topic because they were so concerned about these extensive episodes of shooting. 17:30:26 That's all I really wanted. to say thank you again, thank you for your comments. 17:30:33 Gretchen is up next and then i'll queue up Mike 17:30:38 Gretchen, you'll need to unmute mute yourself, and then you'll have 3 min for public comment 17:30:49 Okay, Can you hear me? We can hear you Great. Okay. 17:30:53 I live in. Keep George up in the highlands and we've had a repeated shooter coming down over the last probably 8 years, and I don't know guns. 17:31:10 But it it sounds like a war weapon, and fresh was the last time I went out my porch to look at my garden, and all of a sudden this big boom went off, and it sounded. 17:31:25 Like it was in our yard. I ducked and my heart was pounding, and for the next hour this repeated shots over and over and over, and I don't I mean I don't know why but it I feel like 17:31:40 it's too intimidate as but I I just. 17:31:46 It's a horrible feeling you feel like you're gonna get shot. 17:31:50 So I am very much opposed to you know, having this a shooting zone. 17:31:58 I think there are too many people that live in this area and we need to think about people's safety animals, and that's all I have to say. 17:32:07 Thank you, Gretchen. We appreciate your comments. 17:32:12 Bye you'll need to unmute yourself. and then you'll have 3 min for public comment. 17:32:20 There, I think. here i'm a bribe I described this the shooting issue as a fire and life safety issue. 17:32:29 And wow! it would be hard to catch my hair on fire that's what it does for me emotionally. 17:32:35 This is not political, and is simply a fire and life safety issue. 17:32:42 So I support the no shoots on. Thank you. We appreciate your comment. 17:32:48 I see a couple more hands going up and just for everyone who's listing out there. 17:32:53 We are interested in hearing from as many of you as want to make comment, and we are taking an initial round of comments at the beginning of this meeting, and then we will have presentations on the proposed no shooting areas discussion and then 17:33:06 we'll have another public comment period where you can make a second comment. 17:33:11 If you already made a comment during the first public comment period. 17:33:14 Okay, we got it. Yeah, we have 3 new ones. Jodi will be up first, then Bill, and then call it 17:33:35 Hi there! Thanks for letting me speak. I would like to make a petition in in respect to the no shooting zone in cake, George. 17:33:44 I am resident here i've been here for 2 years and I this isn't a political issue for me I I grew up in a military and law enforcement family and i'm well trained in in how to use guns and how they 17:33:55 can hurt people. I'm also a first responder by training. 17:34:00 So I really respect what's been happening here as a new resident to Cape George. 17:34:06 I was outside multiple times and had many neighbors contact me for my own safety, because there were live rounds being shot behind my house, and I couldn't track the trajectory of that ammunition. 17:34:19 I had no idea who was shooting. It seemed like a semi-automatic weapon to me that someone was testing, and I just. 17:34:27 I simply couldn't tell where I was safe or not in my own home and on my property, and so for that reason I support the no shooting. 17:34:37 So thank you very much. Thank you for your comment jodi Bill Woodson. 17:34:42 If you you're gonna need to accept the promotion to panelists to come over and you'll be up after Colette. 17:34:56 Here is Yes, we can hear you so I just have a couple of comments on comments that were already made when talking about the the trajectory of a bullet or shot. 17:35:13 It is absolutely certain to know by the shooter which direction that's going to go. 17:35:19 It's predictable I haven't heard too many accidents reports. 17:35:27 So we have to assume that they are shooting safely, especially if tops are called, and they're checked out life happened down here at the gardener at the at the lagoon, so to say that there is 17:35:44 no way of knowing what the trajectory is is not absolutely factual. 17:35:51 The tutor knows which direction it's going to go and so he's presumably shooting in a safe direction. 17:35:59 I know you don't know that and that can be scary but that doesn't necessarily mean you're in danger. 17:36:05 The other thing is is that it's really doesn't matter to me one way or the other, as far as the no shooting zone down at the lagoon, because it doesn't affect me except that 17:36:17 that's private property down there and I if you're out there in your hunting, and you're checked out by the fishing game, and the sheriff resumably you have permission and if you're not if you're down 17:36:33 there collecting shells or walking the beach or picking your dog out there, or doing whatever that's trespass, because unless you and there was a no trespassing sign posted down there. 17:36:45 And then it was ripped off so i've been here for close to 60 years, and that's always been private. 17:36:52 The beach is always been private it's just now over the last 5 10 years, maybe, where there's been a lot more public hanging out down at the boat ramp and in that area, and they take it upon themselves to 17:37:09 trespass their dogs and walk out on the lagoon, and that would be so. 17:37:16 I am not in favor of the no shooting zone so I'm. 17:37:20 Good. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. We appreciate hearing from everybody. 17:37:28 Bill, you'll need to unmute yourself and you'll have 3 min for public comment and caroline. 17:37:36 There's another hand up too, i'm gonna queue up Nancy. 17:37:40 Next. Am I unmuted now? Okay, My name is Bill Woodson. 17:37:44 I live it, Cape George. for 18 years the i'm in favor of the no shooting zone in Cape George. 17:37:56 There's I see no this is the 400 homes here. 17:38:01 It's not densely packed but it's not densely packed like downtown Port Townsend. but it's the next thing to that and I see no rational reason why there needs to 17:38:13 be shooting here. Certainly. no recreational shooting that makes no sense at all. 17:38:20 And I I do live in close proximity. 17:38:26 A couple of 100 yards to the shooting event that took place. 17:38:29 Last fall or last summer and it's been it's been very upsetting it's been very very upsetting. 17:38:36 And I think a lot of people feel that way, and I just see no rational reason why we need shooting in. 17:38:42 Keep George. so I I am in favor of the no shooting zone. 17:38:48 Thank you for the opportunity to speak and that's all I have to say thank you. 17:38:52 We appreciate your comment Nancy. you have 3 min to make comments. 17:39:01 I Oh, I don't need 3 I just wanted to 17:39:05 You you know I think we've gotten off on a couple of tangents, and i'm in Cape George I'm in the village section, and I just want to stress that for those of us concerned about this it is 17:39:13 strictly a matter of safety. we're congested community The houses are fairly close together. 17:39:19 We have kids who play outside. We have people who sit sometimes laid into the night on their their decks, in their portches and out in their yards, and we should be able to have a reasonable expectation that we Are not going to be 17:39:33 subject to any kind of gun shooting. in our community it's not necessary, and I understand that there are laws if somebody shoots through my wall and shoots me. 17:39:43 Yes, they'll be prosecuted but that's a little late. if there's an ordinance that would prevent somebody maybe just create some hesitation on that person picking up that done and shooting it knowing that it's 17:39:58 not allowed that i'm in favor of doing it I don't think it's harmful to to impun emotive for this petition, for reasons other than safety is really to diminish and demean the very real 17:40:14 concern that those of us who want the right to stay safely in our communities, apps and gunfire it. 17:40:23 Really it really demeans our argument, and it means us so. 17:40:26 I just really want to stress this is strictly a safety issue somebody. 17:40:33 I I don't know this individual I know there wasn't event I don't know them it did for me. 17:40:39 It isn't about him. but I understand sometimes very late at night people go out who knows if they've been drinking? 17:40:45 If they've you know this idea that anybody who shoots a gun knows where that bullet is going to go if it's 1 30 in the morning, and they've been drinking. 17:40:54 They don't know where that bullet's gonna go and it could very easily go into my house. 17:40:59 So anyway, that's I just really want to stress that that we need to keep this on the issue of safety, and just the other thing I am interested. 17:41:08 I I don't I haven't read the larger proposal, but i'm hoping that the issue that Dylan raised is going to be addressed because i'm interested in how I I thought our petition dealt 17:41:22 with Cape George our community, and I wasn't sure when he was talking about about 200 acres, so i'm i'm very interested in hearing about that. 17:41:30 So thank you very much. Thank you for your comments fancy and we'll have more details about the specific proposals coming coming up shortly. 17:41:41 So I wanna make another call to see if there's anyone else who's joined us. 17:41:46 I notice if numbers of additional people, joined if anyone else who's join would like to make an initial public comment here about any of these 3 proposals for no shooting areas at Gardner Beach, the larger Cape George proposal or 17:42:01 the smaller Cape George proposal. Is there anybody else who would like to make an initial comment? 17:42:10 Now 17:42:15 Oh, I see one hand There, 17:42:25 Missy's hand is raised but I just wanna call out that she's already spoken during the first public comment period. 17:42:31 We'll call on her as after the presentation I guess Jim, You're gonna need to unmute and then you'll have 3 min for public comment . 17:42:44 You Guys haven't got video where we go as well Yeah, I'm just struck by a lot of the comments on both sides of this issue. 17:42:53 I think, really live in a community a larger community that is growing, and because it's growing. 17:43:02 There's naturally going to be conflicts between people who have more traditional ideas about guns and gun safety, and people who are, you know, either frankly afraid of guns or who are well versed in handling guns 17:43:17 but know that shooting guns off at a place near Cape George or near Gardner Beach might be harmful or upsetting to people in animals. 17:43:28 And I don't understand the thing about the comment that the man made about Gardener Beach being a private property. 17:43:36 I I just I just i'm putting the question out there to the entire community. 17:43:40 Does that mean that when there's a shooting thing a shooting weekend that that's the private properties owners invitation to everybody to come duck hunting I I don't understand that part and it seems to 17:43:52 me that if it's a private property who a private property owner who owns that property is inviting people to do a dot com on their property, but they might want to at least let the neighbors know yeah this weekend I might get 17:44:07 a little noisy. we're shooting out over the water at the ducks. 17:44:10 Don't wear Your livestock and you guys. are Okay, but you might want to put on some hearing protection. you know It's like That's a seems like a sensible good neighbor. 17:44:21 Idea. And I say that the no shooting zones in general are probably a good idea if it gives anybody pause. 17:44:29 But yeah, granted I mean somebody who's drunk at 4 Am. or 2 am. or whatever time and middle of the night that they're shooting a gun off is not necessarily gonna heed that rule. 17:44:40 But if there is an additional rule, they might I live over under near Discovery Road in Port Townsend, and I hear really loud things sometimes. I know. 17:44:51 Sometimes it's the gun range and sometimes it's not and I don't even know where that stuff is coming from. 17:44:57 I understand that the shooters might know where they're shooting but my dog might not know, and and I my wife might not know where that's coming from. 17:45:07 And it's also just a noise nuisance more than anything else. 17:45:11 I know It's a safety issue. but noises noise we don't need more of it. 17:45:17 Do we, Alright, that's all I have to say thanks thanks for your comments, Jim. 17:45:25 Okay, So i'm gonna make a last call for initial public comments here. 17:45:28 Is there anybody else on the attendee list who would like to make an initial public comment? 17:45:35 Misty, we're gonna hear from you after the presentation cause we already heard from you at the beginning of the public comment period. 17:45:42 Is there anybody else who would like to make public comment at this time Keith? 17:45:50 They'll bring over key 17:46:07 Okay, there you go. Can you hear me? Okay, Cool: Yeah. 17:46:12 My name is Keith, and I live in Cape George, and I strongly support the 17:46:17 The no shooting ordinance that they're working on here. I just moved here about a year and a half ago, and I've heard gunfire at least 3 times since. 17:46:24 I've been here and I Don't want to be put I just moved from Spokane, where there's a lot of i it real a rural part of Spokane, which is very similar to Cape George in terms of 17:46:35 density, and when I first moved there There was very little gunfire there's no gun ordinances there, but in the last 5 or 6 years, I mean it was I would it wasn't unusual to hear over a 100 rounds go 17:46:47 off a day. sometimes semi-automatic and I my daughter? my granddaughter lived there, who put us into position, having to round them all up, bring them inside, try to vet? who's shooting where they were shooting do they know what 17:47:01 they're doing. Are they in the right state of mind and That's one of the reasons I moved over here is to get away from that. 17:47:08 So I was really surprised. i've heard 3 different occasions where i've heard gunfire that sounded like it was within Cape George. 17:47:13 So so I don't really want to go through that again. 17:47:16 I've already lived through it, and I have no really problems with guns. 17:47:20 Necessarily I grew up in the military family i've used guns in the past for recreation. but it has no business in a place like this, and and I don't wanna have to bet people to figure out whether they're in 17:47:30 the right state in mind or not when they're using them so anyway, I just wanted to express my you on that thanks for sharing. 17:47:38 We appreciate your comments. appreciate all the comments we received in this initial public comment period. 17:47:45 We are now going to have a presentation on the 3 proposed shooting areas. 17:47:54 Philip Hun zucker our civil deputy prosecuting attorney is gotten a presentation ready for us, so he's gonna share some slides, and then, after that we will have some discussion amongst the 17:48:07 commissioners and and then do another public comment period can you see my slides? 17:48:21 Yes, okay, great. we can't let that in presentation mode yeah. 17:48:25 I'm getting there 17:48:32 Okay, 17:48:38 Yeah, it looks great So this is similar to the presentation that I gave to the board accounting commissioners some weeks ago, and but I've added a few things and here are the things that I want to talk 17:48:57 about sort of the principles related to no shooting areas. 17:49:02 These principles of of law. and then talk a little bit about the 17:49:08 Each of the proposed areas. So the principles there's 6 principles. 17:49:17 We need to think about one. The Board of County Commissioners has the final say over, whether there should be a no shooting area, and what the the scope of it should be second State law limits the scope of any no 17:49:34 shooting area their requirements in in our county code and Jefferson County code, 8.5, 0 point 0, 5 0 that have to be met 17:49:47 And then that is the first decision for the board to make is does the petition warrant consideration? 17:49:55 That's something that that the board has withheld determination on pending this workshop. 17:50:02 And then participation by the tribes is required in this process. 17:50:10 We've heard comments from the from the point no point Treaty Council and that's helpful And then, finally, there's there's if you if the board decides that they want to consider the any 17:50:28 of the petitions. Then they have 3 options we'll talk about quickly what those are 17:50:41 So again, these are the first decision. decision is whether it warrants consideration. 17:50:48 Then you have 3 options Either hold a public hearing, facilitate an amical solution within the proposed area. 17:50:58 And so information we've attained we've heard today. could help with that process. or send the petition to a review committee. 17:51:05 Those are the 3 choices. So Let's talk a little bit about the limits and requirements under 17:51:14 The Rcws in the Jefferson County code for no shirting areas. 17:51:18 And here they really are. Just try to limited or simplify it a little bit from the presentation that I did for the Commissioners. 17:51:27 Really you need to know that there is a preemption in State law on local firearms. regulation. 17:51:35 It's contained in rcw 9.4 1.2, 9 0, and that unless there's an exception local regulation of firearms is is prohibited. 17:51:51 It's It's reserved to the legislature there is an exemption there is an exemption under the Rcws. 17:52:02 And 9.4, 1, 303, which is carried over to our code and Jcc. 17:52:06 8 point, 5 0 point 0, 5 0 one when there is a reasonable likelihood of jeopardy to humans, domestic animals or property. 17:52:17 That's the test and then the requirement in our code is contained in Jcc. 17:52:26 8 point, 5 0 point 0, 5 0, 2 and 3 requires a definable threat to the public health safety or general welfare. 17:52:38 That's the language from the code. Okay, so this is just the language the preemption language that's in that in that first bullet that we talked about. 17:52:50 And if you you can just quickly look at the red part makes it very clear that local regulation of firearms is are of part of the field of farms is within the the boundaries of the state is 17:53:05 preempted and then it. It talks about in the black, highlighted part. 17:53:13 That cities and counties or cities, towns and counties, and other municipalities man act only those laws and ordinances related to firearms that are specifically authorized by State law and those authorizations 17:53:29 are in rcw 9.4 1.300 so here's the here's the applicable exception in 9.4, 1 300. 17:53:45 It's in for us it's the one that would apply here is in 3 a okay, and that's where that language where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans domestic animals or property will be jeopardized 17:53:57 that's where you can regulate you can regulate in that zone. 17:54:03 Okay. And then that same language is carried over to our county code and 8.5 0 point 0, 5 0 1. 17:54:13 You can see it there on the screen 17:54:19 And And here's the the language containing The requirement in 8, point 5, 0, 0, 5 0, 2 and 3 that there has to be a definable threat to the public health safety or general welfare. 17:54:39 Okay, So back to options. this is the the account code that that basically contains 3 options. 17:54:49 I talked about a minute ago. the first decision is after the and that's highlighted in black. So you first have to find the petition warrants consideration, and then the options follow that hold the public hearing 17:55:09 facilitate an amicable solution, or assign it to a review committee 17:55:19 If there's a review committee then then 8 then Jcc. 17:55:24 8.5, 5, 0 point 0, 5 0 talks about what has to or the requirements for the your view committee, and what has to be considered and 17:55:49 And then subsection, 5 of 8 point, 5, 0 point 0, 5 0 talks about the need legal note notice that has to be published prior to a hearing. 17:56:00 So this is a hearing that will require notice. And then in 6 The first thing I talked about in in terms of what, and in terms of the legalities of this stuff is that the Board of County Commissioners determine the final boundaries 17:56:21 for the creation of a no shooting hearings so that's your decision ultimately. 17:56:27 What should be the boundaries 17:56:34 Okay, questions so far. So you talk about noise in regards to firearms. 17:56:45 So under the rcw or the whack related to noise, and also under our code, the legal discharge of firearms is is not regulated. 17:57:02 Can't be regulated, nuisance noise can be regulated, but just the everyday regulation of noise related to firearms is not allowed, and that's derivative of State law 17:57:21 So did you talk about? Do we know anything about the threshold for a definable threat to public health, or the likelihood of jeopardy to humans, domestic animals, and properties, or any any precedent that we can 17:57:35 drop from? No, unfortunately no. so it's very subjective and squishy. 17:57:41 Yes, it is So I I had a question along those lines, too, in terms of the Cape George. larger area and dylan's comments about the 230 plus acre dnr tract of land how could 17:57:56 that even be included that tract of publicly on forest land, because it's not It doesn't mean the definition that you just shared with us. 17:58:08 Well that's the decision for for you to make I can provide you advice on that. 17:58:14 But I prefer to not do that in a public forum. 17:58:17 Okay, Do you know, Philip? cause because this is my first no shooting area. 17:58:28 Experience. Do you know what methods we've used in the past? 17:58:32 For considering no shooting areas. Have we formed review committees? 17:58:36 Have we had hearings. do you have a sense of what's been done in the past. 17:58:43 I can only tell you what's been done since I've been here, and I've been here since April third of 2,007. 17:58:50 So a little more than 5 years 17 sorry a little more than 5 years. 17:58:56 I think we've done 3 or 4 no shooting areas since I've been here all have been done by hearing. 17:59:04 Okay, there has been no rebuke Committee or appointed for any of them. 17:59:08 Okay, great any other questions. Cater Greg: you know Phil to answer this for me earlier, and it's a little bit to your question, Heidi. 17:59:21 But if this is a question that came up with the Gardener community meeting, and I just wanna make sure it was addressed, can get a no shooting zoom area as defined by the county include State Lands Yes, Alright, and we have 17:59:39 some that do chimicum. creek no shooting area has has within it lands that are part of the fishing wildlife areas. 17:59:54 I can't remember exactly what it's called but and we cooperated with fish and wildlife on the creation, on the modification of that no shooting area I was involved, in that and I I think it was 20 18:00:08 17 or 2018 actually did a lot of work on that to figure out what the boundaries should be. 18:00:15 But but yes. the answer to the question is, Yes, okay, 18:00:22 Okay, So here's the petition or the the the area that's covered by the proposed smaller cape George shooting area, and it's You can see that the outlines of the larger one you'll see the whole 18:00:39 thing in a minute, but but the black lines are part of the larger one, and the purple is was the original proposal, and I I've got them. 18:00:51 I've also got a download of the area you can Look at, and you can kind of see where the dense population density is which you may wanna consider for application of the standards that you're required to apply 18:01:07 but this is basically it. And and then, if you compare it, well back to the questions for all these. 18:01:14 And this is gonna be a pattern you're gonna see this basically the same slide every time after each one. 18:01:21 These are your decision points right? We have already talked about them so I don't. 18:01:26 I don't think we really need to talk about it about a minute. 18:01:27 It's just a reminder for that when this is what you got at the process. 18:01:31 You have to go through so here's the larger one you can see that it is much larger than the the original proposal. 18:01:44 The the way it's presented doesn't tell me very much about density. 18:01:48 So when I looked at it, I thought, Well, what what does that mean? 18:01:53 So you can here's a blow up a part of it that's the bottom kind of the bottom part down here and then that's a little bit above it so you can see that you know there's various 18:02:09 densities, population densities, or housing density. 18:02:11 I guess, is the way to say it. In this area quite a few houses are pretty dense down in around back at Point, a little north of back, at Point and so forth. 18:02:22 So I think you would want to con, you know, to look at that and and compare it to the to the standards for for what you want to do here. 18:02:31 So and then here's kinda the other I mean So compare the 2, and where things are what you want to. 18:02:47 What you want to think about in terms of where there's you know a threat to humans. 18:02:54 Domestic animals or property. sorry can you describe what You're showing here. 18:03:04 This is the the southern boundary of the larger 18:03:13 When that spec a point there. So this is more in this area here. Yeah. 18:03:17 Okay, thank you. Do we know where? The some of the incidents that residents were speaking to shooting incidents happened. 18:03:32 Do any of us know where those were in proximity, say to Okay, thank you. 18:03:43 Or purple, I don't know purple pink what's your it is absolutely purple. 18:03:47 Fill it is not pink. Okay, purple that's pink, though. 18:03:54 Right? Yeah. Okay. alright. So again, these are the decision points. 18:04:00 Right is the petition warrant. consideration. and then, if so, take your pick on process. 18:04:12 Alright. So here's gardener beach I did put in the slides. 18:04:17 Show the the revised proposal that was in the public comments, So we'll see that sort of at the end of this. 18:04:24 But in terms of this map I could tell a little bit more about density housing density. 18:04:32 Looking at this but the beautiful yellow color here which which I find very helpful for finding the area kind of obscure. 18:04:41 Some of it for me. so so so there's the lagoon. 18:04:46 You can see the lagoon, and then I panned out a little bit from that, so you can, so you can see where the lagoon is in relation to other things. 18:04:59 And you know if you're looking at density. it's not terribly dense in terms of housing. 18:05:07 I think that point was made in comments today. but you can consider, you know. 18:05:15 You know, risk of people walking by that's not prohibited by that standard. 18:05:18 So that's let's go back and look at the petitioner. 18:05:28 And so one more time, and we have an updated map you're gonna show the updated Okay, I am. 18:05:33 Where's the boat knock? I think it's over here somewhere, right now. O* is the fish and wildlife property where people park? 18:05:43 But I think that's it right there isn't it Correct? Yeah, yeah, well, it's just halfway through that property thing. 18:05:47 But yeah, it's right across from that 1 0 1 9 parcel that people park out 18:05:56 So here's the email that I that I pasted in kind of the prelude to the the new map. 18:06:08 And then there's the new map and this is a much. It's a beautiful yellow color, too, but it's a little easier to see through. 18:06:19 So you can see that it takes out some of the lagoon 18:06:27 And with the the the email has the rationale for that. 18:06:34 I guess this was discussed at the may ninth meeting but here's here's the rationale right here, where it says I started Gardener's petition, and and then apparently they had discussions at the May 18:06:48 ninth meeting and there were owners on the east end of the lagoon that were concerned about losing target practice rights. 18:06:57 And so Francis reynolds says that it wasn't her intention. 18:07:04 So I that's this area here, that's not included in the revised proposal, and by the way since it's your decision, you can you decide the boundaries of this so it's not out it's 18:07:16 not out of order for for folks to consider different, or ask you to consider different boundary boundaries in this process 18:07:29 Alright and well, that's the same slide third time fourth time it's the point slide. 18:07:35 So 18:07:41 Questions, 18:07:46 I'm. I know that there was you attended a meeting last week in her from a number of people about this proposal on Gardener Right, Greg, Is there anything you want to share from that? 18:07:57 Or so that Kate and I could benefit from what you heard of that session. 18:08:02 Let's see. you know many of the same voices we heard today. 18:08:06 We already have the petitions. We talked about a range of issues. 18:08:10 There were a lot of questions about the the the dock and traffic, and Fourth of July, so it wasn't it wasn't limited just to this, trying to think of anything domain regarding the the no shooting area. 18:08:23 I I mean it's it's I think there's been a high hi intensity waterfowl hunting process that's been going on at that lagoon you know and they've a lot of lot of conversation 18:08:36 about frustration going to the sheriff's office and if there's not a kind of a complaint about the trespassing on the property, then can't really do anything and the hunter is assert that they have 18:08:49 permission to be on the private property. So I mean, is this a de facto? 18:08:54 No hunting zone, I would say, Yes, I mean it's really it is as it was pointed out both by by Dylan with point to Point Treaty Council and and some commenters today. 18:09:05 It's, you know. part of one private parcel and efficient wildlife parcel it's the first fish and wildlife manages the water foul season, you know, which is half the year or something from 9 18:09:17 to 6, or something that each different date ranges different hours. 18:09:23 I have no question that the intensity of the hunting is as increased as as the comics. 18:09:31 They spoke to thank you, so that parcel ending in 1 0, 1 5, that is the owned by the Discovery Bayland Company, and they allow hunting They have been I I mean we when we get to recommendations We could talk about what to do but they have been not really involved in the conversation since 18:09:56 i've public comment today that they had a no trespassing sign up, and it is true that all the tied lands 18:10:05 There are owned by that property we both launch only has an easement, a price. 18:10:08 The tied lands to access the waters at the State for for that for public use. 18:10:15 So it's it's a tight little piece of property, you know, in a tight area that's surrounded by a pretty pretty, dense residential neighborhood 18:10:28 Yeah, it's a tricky one. It is so the the parcel ending, and 0 1 9 is the W. 18:10:36 Dw. parcel 18:10:40 So another option would be to limit the notion area to the W. 18:10:45 Dfw parcel out, and then that would only apply outside of their season. 18:10:52 That would apply in their season as well. It would prevent waterfowl shooting from the parking lot. 18:10:57 But i'm not sure if there's much hunting from the parking lot. 18:11:00 I don't think it would pro prohibit you from parking in the parking lot and walking over to the lagoon. 18:11:07 Right, Greg is the is the hunting mostly shotguns that's happening. 18:11:13 I I I can't speak to that I mean I I think generally. probably most waterfowl hunting is shotguns, which, of course, outland people jumped up to answer that one, and we could always if you want 18:11:25 hiding to ask that question to the audience. Hmm, hmm! 18:11:32 I think probably it is mostly shotguns, and we we had, you know, one comment today by picking up spent shotgun shells. 18:11:45 Could I 18:11:46 Could I. Are we ready to start making suggestions, or clients, or 18:11:54 How do you wanna proceed? Yeah. So the next item on our agenda? 18:11:59 I'm getting Guess where there's 2 discussion items but it feels like they could kind of be merged 5 and 6. 18:12:08 Do we wanna work through each proposal and talk about Cape George first, since we that presentation first? 18:12:18 Sure, sure, and I think those 2 probably need to be talked to and talked about in relation to one another. 18:12:26 So what I couldn't tell from this the purple polygons there. 18:12:35 Who? Well, that's what I see on my screen at least is, if that if those polygons cover the the whole colony, the the the dense residential portion of Cape George I think they do I looked at 18:12:52 the gis pretty closely up I didn't read through the legal definitions. 18:12:57 But of course we we have a hearing so we could we'd still be vetting the the boundaries. exactly. 18:13:02 But yeah, have to saddle drive and everything I think that's the colony and the super dense neighborhood just to the to the east. 18:13:11 Yeah, it's not the Highlands settle the , It is interesting that the the other dense area is a base shore drive is not included. 18:13:25 And it has a similar density to the saddle drive area. 18:13:34 Yeah. it it's 18:13:35 Yeah, it It's so I I did find it compelling somebody said, You know, there there isn't really an issue in the dense areas. 18:13:42 That's not where you have the shooting where you have the shooting is outside of the dense areas, and you know I I take very seriously with a tribe. 18:13:51 Say that that they use those areas for hunting and i'm I'm. 18:13:56 I'm definitely prone to defer to their use So i'm i'm the the large area does seem like a bit of an overreach, and just as a reminder to the public. 18:14:08 You know we it's it's very hard when we have this kind of and density of development in 18:14:17 In rural working lands. that we get a lot of incompatibility, whether it's logging noise or hunting. you know. 18:14:24 So this is a The inevitable outcome of folks wanting to live in the country is in compatibility. 18:14:31 So you know I appreciate that there is that density in in Cape George. 18:14:38 And in in in those dense areas, if there is indeed a an a a threat to safety. 18:14:48 I'm i'm willing to support the the smaller proposal, and and still consider whether there are other areas that should be included in that 18:15:01 But I am. I am not interested in considering the larger proposal as presented, and I was gonna say something very similar with last words. the smaller proposal seems a little small to me because i've spent quite a bit of 18:15:17 time in Cape George, mostly on the Pickle Ball Court recently, but over over the last 40 years. 18:15:24 I have a number of friends and colleagues who live in Cape George, and there are some other dense areas that I would want to take a closer look at, but I it also feels like the larger proposal is too large to 18:15:35 me, and especially based on dylan's comments today about public lands within that boundary. 18:15:42 So So I think I concur with you, Kate. 18:15:48 I agree with you guys, A 100%. May. Can I make a motion? 18:15:55 I would move that we hold a hearing to consider the merits of the smaller keep. George. 18:16:00 No shooting area proposal i'll second that And if we could, if just a little more discussion, heidi if it's okay just that I would especially want to hear from folks who live in the other dense 18:16:15 areas included here, so that's bay short beck at Point 18:16:19 Those are the only 2 ic that are that i'm familiar with that Aren't included. 18:16:26 So, and and i'm interested in providing that protection for the the more dense areas I mean. 18:16:33 The The trouble is that there could very well still be hunting right up to the edge of those, and it was still here. 18:16:39 Gun shots and not know where they're coming from and So if this isn't you know it doesn't prevent anyone from being near gunshots, it's this is still rural working land when we did the 18:16:51 chimney. Come create no shooting error. 18:16:57 We change the debt. Some of the definitions to prohibit shooting in shooting toward or into a No shooting area. 18:17:04 So so that that's a point to think about it it won't solve the problem that you raise Commissioner Dean. 18:17:11 But but we do have. that is in the code already. 18:17:15 I just wanna manage folks. expectations yes, absolutely so there's there's a motion and a second, or can I just say all in favor? 18:17:28 Okay. So That proposal for the Cape George? 18:17:32 No sheing area passes, and we will schedule a hearing for that. 18:17:37 So now let's talk about gardener 18:17:45 Can we go to the the updated proposal 18:17:58 As Kate says, this one's tougher you you know I mean they're the real impacts that people are concerned about, and I have no doubt that there's their kind of all day long during the waterfowl hunting 18:18:10 season, you know we have not heard a word from the the the owners of the that land, so I feel you know, to make a no shootings zone on one piece of private property without hearing from the owner 18:18:24 I guess, seems premature there's a lot of there's a nexus of of issues here, and a lot of them are are about overuse of a very limited piece of land, you know, and as it was raised before some 18:18:38 of the impacts are coming from increased use of the beach. 18:18:43 That, you know, is trespassing, You know. I I want people to be able to use the beach, too, and you know you can legally go off the boat ramp and get to the water. 18:18:52 But I guess I feel like there's Still, perhaps a better path and facilitation here, which we haven't pursued, but trying to to contact the landowners and engage with you know the tribes which which also you know 18:19:07 a sort of the point of Point Treaty and and their their rights to to hunt on this land as well, which we, you know, I think all respect. 18:19:17 That you know the sovereignty. and these these treat these treaty rights that are really critical. 18:19:22 So I guess this one is not cool clear enough to me that I would jump into a hearing right away. 18:19:29 Yeah, I I agree with that completely. I feel like i'm trying to remember who who's on the review committee. But maybe it's maybe the facilitation can be but facilitation. 18:19:41 Was another option, right and maybe facilitation means you know limiting parking in the area. I mean there's there's a you know. 18:19:54 There's a couple of ways to address this issue and it It really is about fireworks as much as it is about the the hunting, and you know, when when we have a no shooting zone that preserves everyone's ability 18:20:03 to shoot on their own property, except for the property owner that's not here. 18:20:09 I just I I feel like we're not done with the conversation i'm not even sure I wanna commit county staff to the review committee at this point. 18:20:19 I feel like this is kind of a a neighborhood issue that if the neighborhood could get aligned, or at least you'll be having conversations with all the right people at the table, and and flushing out these issues a 18:20:37 little better. I I would maybe feel willing to advance this to a review committee, but I wasn't recommending a review committee. 18:20:44 I think facilitation was a third option and i'd be happy to take that lead. 18:20:48 Yeah, I I I was just asking for a review of who was on the review committee. 18:20:54 I wasn't suggesting it yeah i'm just i'm just talking through my my sense of the options. 18:21:00 So yeah. if if someone's interested in in facilitating an amicable solution. 18:21:07 That's great and the you know often so often we run into issues of the the public, having you know very legitimate. 18:21:19 Challenges with neighbors, and we are not always the best people to resolve those 18:21:26 It's often hard conversations among neighbors rather than regulation. 18:21:30 So I I don't wanna rule It out but I I also would like to see some more consensus from the the key players there. 18:21:37 We heard from the tribe. we've not heard from fish and wildlife. 18:21:40 I'm glad some of those conversations have started and greg thank you for participating. 18:21:44 So. yeah. I I I concur that there's more more voices need to be heard on this one, so it feels like we're leaning towards the facilitation option. 18:22:02 The second option for this one. Are there any requirements associated with that? 18:22:07 Fill Nope. it's it's very flexible option 18:22:19 I believe waterfall seasons over for quite a while, so we have a bit of a respite, at least in the impacts that that that neighbors are. 18:22:27 I think it ended in March, so you know time time to work towards an amicable solution. 18:22:33 I can get there. Yeah, good. I I respect the people in that area want to have access to the waterfront, and it is that it is a kind of a bottleneck that is the the one road that goes down to the water and has some 18:22:48 public access. So you know I I do want to acknowledge the those those impacts. 18:22:53 I I would be disappointed if my only access to waterfront was, you know, riddled with gunshots and shotgun shells, and you know, at the at the May ninth meeting there was a lot of talk 18:23:07 about public works and and road engineering you know as facilitating some of the the impact. 18:23:14 So there's it's possible that there is a completely unrelated path to a solution that at least mitigate some of these impacts, and you know, just doesn't create , The landscape for for the high impact. 18:23:28 That people are are are real, being impacted by oh, sorry, not held in freezing. 18:23:37 So can I make a motion that We pursue a facilitated solution here, and that Commissioner Brotherson. 18:23:47 Take the lead on that. I will make that motion that we pursue a facilitated solution for the gardener beach. 18:23:53 No shooting area proposal, and that Commissioner Brotherton, lead that facilitation effort. 18:24:01 Have a second all in favor. Hi, hi! Okay, Thank you. colleagues. 18:24:12 I don't The the next item on the agenda is discussion and potential action regarding follow up and next steps. 18:24:19 Do we feel like we need any Greg to commence this facilitation process? 18:24:29 Okay, So we are gonna have another public comment period. 18:24:34 And for this one I would like to have everyone who wants to make a public comment raise their hand here, so I can assess how many people are interested in commenting now. 18:24:46 And Heidi. Can I say one thing I hard stop it at 7? 18:24:52 My daughter's kind of performance. so I really have to get out at 7 18:24:59 So I see 3, 4. How many folks on on on the call here want to make a public comment? 18:25:05 Please raise your hand, using the raise hand, button at the bottom of the zoom screen or no, no one's on the phone. 18:25:13 Okay, can I say one more thing before we get started in public? 18:25:18 Comment. , just that with the hearing for cape George and in the facilitation process, everyone will have more opportunity to make comment and and testimony in case of the hearing. 18:25:27 So it's we're not closing the book on anything yet. we're just establishing a path forward. 18:25:33 Yeah, thank you. And if I could make a recommendation on that public comments for folks in Cape George, it would be really helpful if you could identify 18:25:41 Where you live. in relation to perhaps the smaller area or or you know, some sort of mo indicator, just we have some sense of where those comments are referring to keep George is a large area. 18:25:58 Okay, So i'm seeing 5 hands up Now I think what we're gonna do is 18:26:06 You've got 34 min so we will we'll make these comments 2 min in case other hands go up over the course of the next good 1215 min. 18:26:18 So Carolyn. you got that we're gonna do 2 min public comments for these comments, and we'll start with Misty Murray. 18:26:27 Maybe Phil wants to stop sharing a screen. Oh, I was muted and I stopped the screen sharing. 18:26:33 Okay. yeah. we have 5 people queued up i'm gonna bring people over 18:26:37 I'll read out, the order and it's going to be Misty Marie first, then Gretchen, then Dylan then Mark, then Barb. 18:26:45 But i'll remind you later, so i'll start bringing those people over 18:27:00 Hi, Can you hear me? Okay, We can hear you great mistake. Thanks. ? The reason why I kept raising my hand is I'm here with 3 other homeowners, and they all want to speak as well so the first one is robin 18:27:11 fling. Okay. Great. and we'll give them each 2 min as well, okay, great. 18:27:18 Thank you. Hi, I don't need really 2 min I just want to basically say that. 18:27:22 But what I understand i'm just not a political statement it's a statement of the fact that i've been a country girl all my life. 18:27:29 I understand and understand how people love to enjoy them and that's fine. 18:27:35 But this is a community it's a neighborhood and I do not want. 18:27:41 And again shooting here those places that they could be without being issue with all the people that live here. 18:27:49 And I want to respond to somebody really quick. that said that 18:27:52 The projection of bullets. I could actually tell you I lived in swim in the dentist area. 18:27:58 I had a gentleman named Robert Nelson, who was a big gal enthusiast. 18:28:02 We were fine, everything was great. You shauna seagull that he didn't like 18:28:07 It ricocheted off her rock in his dry way, and came through the bait. 18:28:11 My bedroom window. So I just want to kind of make that clear that even though you think you know where you're shooting at I could test it. That's just not true. 18:28:19 Accents do happen, and I don't wanna have to be a victim of one. 18:28:25 Thanks for your comments, Robin. Who else is there with you, Miss T. Murray? 18:28:31 Do you want? Yeah, Okay, Go ahead. hi i'm Laurie Owen. 18:28:38 I live in North Palmer in the colony. 18:28:43 Great. Okay, you have 2 min. Okay, i'm not gonna need that much time, either. 18:28:49 But as a it's the neighborhood I Don't think it's a safe place to be shooting off guns. 18:28:56 There is a shooting re range just a mile away from us maybe 2 at the most. 18:29:05 I think that's where it should be done We do not need guns being shot in our neighborhood. 18:29:12 Thanks, Laurie. we appreciate your comment. Do you have someone else there with you, Mr. 18:29:15 Murray. Yeah, My grandfather Jim playing also lives in the colony, and he actually is on the phone right now, along with my dad. 18:29:23 Darryl Flame, who has a second property in the village, but neither one of them are supportive of this being a shooting area. 18:29:31 Either. This is called in a little bit longer than we expected. 18:29:33 I apologize. I thought we'd be able to get all this done the first time, but I couldn't I couldn't get back in. 18:29:40 Okay, Sorry about that. Well, we appreciate hearing from you all. And thanks for having a house party. 18:29:44 Yeah, when i'm ready to be able to be part of this So thank you so much. 18:29:49 Yeah, okay, Carolyn, I think, are we moving under Gretchen. 18:29:57 Now that's the corrections next and then dylan 18:30:02 Unmute. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you Great. 18:30:04 Okay, i'm concerned because we live on magnolia avenue up in the Highlands and our property. 18:30:14 Buts against the this person that shoots these left to up by leftist road shoots, automatic weapons that are. 18:30:25 It's just terrifying and I just feel like we're kind of left out in the cold, and they shit you know that that's our street has other residents on it and it it's really 18:30:38 uncomfortable that's all I have to say thank you that's great specific feedback gretchen. 18:30:45 That's the kind of geographic information we're gonna need going forward. 18:30:50 So we hope you'll participate in the hearing when we have it, Dylan, we love to hear from you, or whatever you have to add, perfect. 18:30:58 Can you hear me all right at this point i'm in questionable reception? Nope. 18:31:03 We can hear you great. Okay, I just wanna say this has been a an amazing process, and it's been really really in great to watch and to be engaged in. 18:31:11 So thank you all all of you commissioners for for taking everybody's perspective. 18:31:17 Seriously. i've been in my current position about 3 years, and before this I knew nothing about treaty rights, and I feel like I spend 50% of my day beating my head against a cement. wall, and often not making any 18:31:30 headwind. It was really nice to hear the discussions you all had, and take treaty right seriously, and balance that against the concerns of landowners. 18:31:38 So thank you. I will you know. be in communication again in the future. 18:31:44 And yeah, it's been been really a pleasure to engage today. 18:31:47 Thank you. Thanks so much. We appreciate you being here, and I think, Mark, there is next. 18:31:57 And Mark, and then Barb, and then Chris Alright, I think I think I started everything their work. 18:32:03 Yep. it works I remember the Cape George Colony area, the far north end on Victoria Loop. 18:32:12 So we're kind of on the boundary my opposition to the no shoot thing. 18:32:18 I I I totally understand the the notion of safety I I don't want people shooting in the neighborhood. 18:32:25 Certainly for no reason other than you know. Maybe, perhaps self defense, which is a specific exclusion of no shoot stuff. 18:32:33 I I I think I, Commissioner D. and I loved your language. 18:32:35 The notion of squishy definitions. Okay, you. 18:32:40 The 3 of you have been sitting in those chairs long enough to know that squishy definitions and subjective law makes for very bad law. 18:32:47 And the reality of the situation is that a no shoot thing in the county code is not going to improve safety. 18:32:56 It's not gonna stop anybody who's or negligent from firearm, you know, at the at the long time or place for whatever. 18:33:08 So this is this adds nothing to to our safety Once, whoever there are already laws on the books to deal with this stuff. Should the consequences be warned, Criminal prosecution? 18:33:17 I could see a situation where somebody may confidently seek to. 18:33:24 Take care of Burman, or something like that, and in their on their property. 18:33:27 And then all of a sudden he sent a whole world to hurt. 18:33:31 And again it becomes a the presumption of innocence is a problem, because we've not not looking at the anything older than the fact that the farm was discharged. 18:33:40 So this? there are! There are other ways, I think, to improve safety. 18:33:45 This is not one of them. And, I think we can do a better job of this. as a as a kid to keep George Colleague in the community can have our own discussion in our neighborhood to make people more aware of this the potential 18:33:57 risks. Yes, there are the only thing it's gonna make anybody safer is the competence of our individual neighbors. 18:34:03 Not a words on a piece of paper that really are not going to have any effect on anybody's behavior. 18:34:09 Not already on the book to cover that. Thank you. 18:34:12 Thank you very much, Mark. Yeah. and then Chris is i'm sorry Barb is next, and then Chris hi I live in the colony as well, and hi! 18:34:31 And you live near a place where guns were used. 18:34:34 In the middle of the night, and that's not hunting so I think that if there's going to be regulation in terms of to allow for hunting reasonable hunting in in areas in the greater cape George 18:34:49 boundary that maybe it could just be determined that hunting is fine between 9 in the morning and 6 at night, and that might take care of all the F. 18:34:57 You know, after dark. stuff that's happening that scares people, and that it's hard to aim correctly, and that that that might be something that we could do to make it halfway in between have a time for 18:35:13 hunting. I Don't care about you know I believe in hunting, but I just don't believe in shooting guns on all crazy for no reason. 18:35:22 Thank you. Thanks for your comment. Bob, if anyone else who's out there. 18:35:29 One must raise their hand. please do so now, otherwise Chris will have the last comment here. 18:35:38 Thank you, Heidi I just wanted to comment one more time that the no shooting zone allows the sheriff's office to take a call about shooting, which concurred in this neighborhood in other parts of the neighborhood there's not just 18:35:53 one incident in 10 years or 2 incidences and 10 years. 18:35:57 Those are the ones where someone called, and actually had the sheriff come out. 18:36:01 Sheriff will not come out for shooting unless they are in a no shooting zone. 18:36:06 So what happened should have been covered by the sheriff's office. 18:36:11 This is a safety issue, and the sheriff themselves had said to me, because I followed up on it that, having a no safety, no shooting area is the safest thing you could do for the community. 18:36:21 So I am for the No shoot area, and I know that there are a lot of people in the in in the entire Cape George area. 18:36:27 I live on Sunset boulevard and cape George Road. so it's mostly sunset. boulevard in the colony in Cape George, and I just wanna say that there's a lot of people that are on 18:36:37 this call that? did time a petition that really don't want shooting in the Cape George. area. 18:36:43 Thank you great. We appreciate your comments, and we will be having, as we just decided, a hearing about this. 18:36:51 No shooting area proposed for Cape George, so I I anticipate that the neighborhood will get mobilized for that. 18:36:58 And last call here for public comments before we close this meeting to decide a path forward for considering these, no shooting areas. 18:37:09 Is there anybody else still on the line who would like to make public comment 18:37:19 We appreciate all of you taking the time to be with us tonight. 18:37:22 Super to have a diversity of opinions, and it helps us make better decisions with more perspectives included in them. 18:37:33 So as I just said. we'll be having a hearing about the Cape George.