HomeMy WebLinkAboutclosed_caption09:01:06 right with like 50,
09:01:12 Awesome. 65? Okay, it looks like Av. Is running.
09:01:22 Now
09:01:23 Checking my screen so I can call this Monday, September 26 meeting of the Jefferson County Board of Commissioners to order.
09:01:33 Good morning. Everybody. Hope everyone had a great weekend, hot and sunny.
09:01:38 I think I mean most chances of sunburn. This weekend, because of the accordion festival, and late late afternoon light at Ben River.
09:01:45 But anyway, I just wanted to start off the morning, recognizing the stress. Our Jefferson County sheriff's office team went through on Friday afternoon, and Brennan and say
publicly, that we don't know the full story and won't know the full story and neither will they until the
09:02:04 Washington State Patrol is completed, their investigation, which is part of a mandatory process, not something that was cause because of the event, but just something that was
triggered by the events.
09:02:15 So an independent organization. Right? So super grateful. I I had the uncanny coincidence of doing a bunch of virtual reality training with our officers last week and felt firsthand.
09:02:32 The adrenaline and stress they go through and making making decisions and responding quickly in stressful situations.
09:02:39 And when I heard this was going on, I immediately was reflecting on my experience, and I I was shaking my head a lot on Friday evening, so grateful for our team down there and
supportive of everything that they do and hope that we get to hear more about this soon well said Glad
09:02:59 we have body cams, you know, it's gonna make up for a more clear picture of the situation, but actually stand with our shares department.
09:03:05 Yeah, thank you. And it's amazing how long it's been.
09:03:09 Decades and decades 100 years since last officer involved shootings.
09:03:15 Take this very seriously. Any other reflections from the last few days.
09:03:21 And anyway, wants to share I mean, I'm not gonna talk about the accordion festival on the All riders are the same, and the and the President of the East Office and Rotary I
think now so anyway.
09:03:37 That's great. Yeah, I'm okay. So as we do every Monday morning we'll start our meeting with public comments, and we also have a couple of hearings this afternoon.
09:03:50 One on the legal lot, a record issue, and one also on a parks plan update.
09:03:56 we've received some written comments on those that look forward to hearing from folks about whether thoughts and concerns are relative to those this afternoon, But they're this
morning.
09:04:06 Are, there? I mean at 11. Yes, well, complete. A lot of records at 11.
09:04:09 And yeah, later in the agenda. But people are free to make comments now on anything that they want to make comment on.
09:04:16 hmm! So if you're on zoom with us, you can use your raisin button at the bottom of the zoom screen.
09:04:24 We do have a few people in the room with us, we will start with folks in the room, and people who are online.
09:04:31 Can raise their hands, using the raise hand button, and we'll bring you over once we purchase from our friends and neighbors in the room.
09:04:42 so trust for him is that is, that
09:04:52 It's still there. But I concern you. Oh, yeah, thanks, girl.
09:04:56 Okay, So Liz Coker Jefferson County Home Builder Association.
09:04:58 Thank you all for being here again on the sunny money.
09:05:01 But a Sunday, Monday, so league a lot of record.
09:05:06 It's a very big issue. I know you have taken a lot of questions for me, and I appreciate that. And Heidi appreciate the quick response what my concern and I want to state it
more.
09:05:16 Clearly I know you're reviewing yet again a review draft today.
09:05:19 The with the first time you're actually getting the graph all the legal lot of record issue returns to the moratorium that began last year that you passed to to protect our
county.
09:05:30 Understandably, against quickly, subdivided lots. So basically lots of would create it with what we call boundary line adjustments.
09:05:38 which was still legal at the time. What I worry about?
09:05:42 Sorry I just hook up to one. I worry about. Is that the current answer to this?
09:05:46 The legal lot of record is so broad that didn't encompass 1,900 private individuals in our county, as Su.
09:05:57 Or I should say, 9,000 households if I did some quick math.
09:06:00 Assuming that one half of those households is married, or has a partner then you're looking at almost 3,000 people, which is 10% of our population given that if 10% of the population
is going to be affected, we need to be really clear that we're not taking away.
09:06:19 Their lands. Now, big developments. I get it. We need to make sure we do traffic studies and all the things that normally go with a plan unit development totally agreed with
the DCD and requesting that but that was how the moratorium started and this is how it's ending and 1,900 individual people will
09:06:36 receive notices that, as I read it, and if I'm wrong, it's because I don't understand the draft which I think I have a fair amount of expertise in this and it, shouldn't be
that hard for me to understand it so let me give you an example, of what I'm having a problem
09:06:52 with, Let's say, someone owns 60,000 lo square acres.
09:06:57 Excuse me, square feet right now in 6 separate parcels, if they've only developed 2 of them to to live on, and they've done it properly well.
09:07:06 Septic everything by the county rules and environmental rules.
09:07:10 They have 40,000 extra square feet. They could divide between their 2 children, as I understand the reading of it right now.
09:07:18 Once you pass this, all of those parcel lots will be one immediately, so you cannot subdivide that to give it to your son and your daughter.
09:07:29 That's a problem with the stock market crashing the recession.
09:07:34 Eminent taxes going up. These aren't people that live in port towns and where I live.
09:07:40 I want to be very honest. Most of these people are not well off in the sense of huge retirement funds.
09:07:45 They may need to sell off a parcel. They may need to ask a child to come back and live their life here, and it might be the only way their child can afford land.
09:07:54 I'm asking you to make sure that that is protected in this lot of record and not removed bye.
09:08:01 Just simply an attempt. Thank you. Thank you, Lizanne.
09:08:06 And I'm also just gonna say that per hearing for the hearing comment to be in the record, it needs to be made during the hearing.
09:08:13 okay, okay, So if you're here, if you're if you're here to close if you're here, to comment on the hearing, you need to come during the hearing to make a comment, that will
be part of the record, and or if you want it to be part of the record.
09:08:28 right You are welcome to comment on the issue. Yeah, totally And that'll give Staff a chance to respond directly to your comments.
09:08:37 Oh, yeah, it's great to have comments early. Yeah, go ahead.
09:08:40 Come on up. That was a great leading for me.
09:08:45 Thank you. I'm Alison Lewis. I just bought a property in Brennan.
09:08:51 And it is my entire retirement plan, and what I had planned to pass on to my son and it's only one third of an acre.
09:09:01 I'm already struggling with figuring out how to apply for a septic system to be put in a cabin to be built, etc.
09:09:10 So this when I found out about it, which was only 2 days ago, this new possible legislation at the county level really scary for me.
09:09:19 I tried hard to find and read the draft. It was hard to find online.
09:09:26 It was hard to read, because it didn't come up easily on the Mobile.
09:09:29 Those are some problems that I think a lot of people are gonna have just finding it and reading it, But I do.
09:09:38 My first instinct when I when I tried to understand what I was reading, my first response was: It feels like gentrification.
09:09:45 It feels like it's gonna be something that's gonna force a lot of people who had wanted to make homes in Jefferson County and who don't have a lot of money.
09:09:56 It's possibly gonna force them to go. Have to sell their lot and give up and go elsewhere.
09:10:03 and it's going to make only rich people be able to buy and and build houses by land and build houses here with the impending possible environmental apocalypse coming where the
rest of the nation may slowly become less livable in Washington state maybe one of the only places left I feel
09:10:25 like this legislation is, goes in dangerous consort with that, and that, you know people are getting to start looking at moving to Washington as D place to be.
09:10:37 And this legislation could possibly immediately already push out people who are already here in and favor the wealthy who are going to want to escape to Washington.
09:10:52 Essentially I know that sounds like apocalyptic reasoning, but a lot of us feel that way.
09:10:57 Like Washington, is our home, and it was a smart choice as a home, and people who own small lots should be allowed to live on them.
09:11:06 The other thing is, I feel like what I'm reading is that if you can't put in a septic system because of the stricter and stricter laws that basically that means you need to
sell your lot and move somewhere else to live what what we should be looking at instead is the county should
09:11:22 be saying, How can we? How can we put a septic account septic line into the lazy sea in Brennan, or into canal tracks, and off of the duck of bush or into the Triton cove the
states you know that's what we should be looking at
09:11:38 to serve your people of Jefferson County. Not just make laws that are gonna make you have to be a a more rich person to stay on your lot and build on it.
09:11:55 to another reason. We have a hearing testimony during the assignment.
09:12:04 yeah.
09:12:07 Yeah, Good morning, Roger. It's so nice to see Roger here.
09:12:13 Okay, thanks. For being here, Roger. Good for you.
09:12:17 Okay? Okay, Good morning. Roger. George: Haven't been here for a while.
09:12:24 Good Good job, guys. Good job, you're trying to do.
09:12:29 Never get good comments a lot of time. Okay, I I know Miss Deane said.
09:12:33 Don't bug me a whole lot. My concern right now is back Then, when we're talking about 450 buffers, 12 or 15 years ago, before any year terms I had a forty-eighter Parcel on
Baver Valley it is the maps in the
09:12:51 county is totally wrong, and it says I only have about 1% upright, and I could put building site on, and it never did.
09:13:01 So I had some sellers that come to the planning department and looked at the maps, and the planning department told them they couldn't do anything, you couldn't even put a tool
shed down on the high ground They put their tools for growing raspberry pi and on blueberries
09:13:18 again. I'm at the point I'm going to sell this 40 acre property, and I contacts a real estate agent real estate agent came into the planning department and looked at the maps
and he says there's only 1% of that 40 acres you can build on which
09:13:33 is totally wrong in our wetland person's been out to that property several times in the past.
09:13:39 In that wetland person for the county. It's not like me, because I made her look bad in some of the situations where she said it was a wetland, and everyone in the group wetland
what do you mean that kind of thing, and Anyway, we've had a couple of other people
09:13:58 since that time. Just come in and looked at Yeah, as the planning department.
09:14:03 I'm taking building that property. You tell him essentially. No.
09:14:07 And it's because the map set something on it.
09:14:10 This is information, use only type thing as far as the drainage system is concerned. Mr.
09:14:16 Karen's totally destroyed any idea on a drainage district a couple of years ago, when we had a meeting which we were trying to set up to try to get things organizing going on
that that no at this time.
09:14:29 I don't think it would ever fly in the county, and Hi, good morning account here.
09:14:35 Pretty soon, soon as we sell everything, so someone else would have to be concerned about it in.
09:14:41 I real concerned about the Land Trust question. If they're really in concerned about agricultural and or habitat.
09:14:50 And I know that Sam and Peep Remorse concerned about how many salmon came back to chemical watershed in the arm about the habitat that they're creating as the Lady at the I
said we're only gonna concerned about habitat we don't
09:15:07 care We don't worry about how many salmon come back.
09:15:10 In my opinion, if you're trying to regulate and do something, let's test to find out if we are making improvement, and the best I can tell from some of the land owners of a
center is, there there's only 3 and 4 fish that came back to last 3 years each of the last
09:15:27 3 years, as opposed to 100. It to 200.
09:15:33 At various times in the past Ro Roger. That's okay.
09:15:35 Thank you. Thanks, Roger. Nice to see you this morning.
09:15:41 Hmm.
09:15:46 Is there anyone with us online who would like to make a public comment?
09:15:54 Okay, is there any? If there's anyone else who's online with us who'd like to make a public comment, you can use the raise hand button on the bottom of your zoom, screen. And
you'll be brought over after stephen makes his comment
09:16:09 hey? Good morning, Well, look first of all, thanks for taking my comment last week, and clarifying some of my questions.
09:16:17 I was concerned about the promotion by the county commissioners, the various vaccine initiatives over the past year, and our health officer, Allison Barry was speaking about
how she was announcing the new boosting and wanting the vulnerable to do it first.
09:16:35 And if it's been 2 to 4 months since your last infection, and they once you consider getting the booster Holy Moly 2 months, I mean that's not a whole lot of, protection and
I've I've been reading for example, that the for example, that the
09:16:56 covid vaccine shots, for the kids are dead in the sense that less than 2% of Americans have been getting their kids vaccinated with under 5 years old.
09:17:10 that's over a 3 month rollout period, and of those who got the first shot 7 of 10 of them, 70% of them didn't get the second shot, I mean, so there's this rather massive resistance
that people, are having to these things And you know you would Think that given all of the propaganda all
09:17:29 of the promotion of these things, that people would be, you know, but it seems like it's quite the opposite that people are getting it.
09:17:36 We're increasingly wary of it. Israel was the first place where these things were rolled out, and at incredible way, and at this point only 2.4% of Israelis are considered to
be fully vaccinated because of whatever reason that they are having this resistance.
09:17:53 And is this because of you know misinformation? Or is this because people have actually, in their own personal lives experienced problems from these vaccines both in effectiveness
and and harm?
09:18:06 I mean I you know I know for myself. I I keep running into people who've had their cancers come back mysteriously, and older people who are suddenly feeling their age, I mean,
this is all anecdotal.
09:18:18 But I mean this is you know people are seeing it, and insofar as actual real statistics.
09:18:25 Israel. The late 18 months to do any kind of safety studies of the rollout.
09:18:31 Finally, in December of last year, they had an independent mission that looked into what was going on With that they had a report in in March, and then in June there there was
a video conference in which they were discussing what what was revealed, and what was revealed. It was not good at all they
09:18:52 were finding that there was 40 times more deaths from older people from the vaccines than any benefit of it.
09:19:00 They just had a lot of negative factors that came out of that, and the the thing that was maybe most interesting was that they did a recharge which is able to find causality
and not coming across this right.
09:19:14 Now but yeah, they found that many cases of rechalance recurrence or worsening of side effects following, repeated those with the same individual.
09:16:07 Good morning, Steven
09:19:22 So this is actually anyway. Here I go. Okay, but it.
09:19:30 this. They've misreported this, and but they're a whistleblowers revealed the videos showing this was the actual results.
09:19:37 So I I just wish that you know we would quit it, and not be promoting this as much.
09:19:24 Steven up here at 3Â min
09:19:45 Thank you, Stephen. We appreciate you making comments this morning.
09:19:50 Okay, is there anyone else who's joined us on Zoom this morning who would like to make a public comment?
09:19:58 If so, you can use the raise hand button at the bottom of the zoom screen.
09:20:02 I see a number of folks with us who might be interested in making a comment.
09:20:11 but I'm not seeing any hands go up so.
09:20:15 Oh, I see him going up
09:20:25 Good morning, Jean. You're gonna you? Yup, You're unmuted.
09:20:31 Good morning. Thank you for your comments in support of our deputies and our law enforcement.
09:20:36 I think that it is all too often that we fail to consider the fact.
09:20:42 But these individuals are humans, and they are conducting themselves in a very difficult circumstance, and I, for one, as I know I you share my sentiment.
09:20:55 I am grateful for their service, and to Monday morning quarterback what they really experience in in the line of duty is kind of is.
09:21:07 It is a fool's errand to to think that we really have any idea what they go through.
09:20:28 You have 3Â min
09:21:18 Thank you, Jean. Anyone else with us online, you'd like to make a public comment
09:21:32 I'm not seeing any other hands go up right now.
09:21:33 Leave public comment open till 9, 30, in case somebody is moved to make a comment and move along to consideration of consent agenda, or response.
09:21:44 So response. Of course, who wants to start with response, I can start.
09:21:52 Thank you all for your comments. So valuable part of our process.
09:21:57 Thank you. Making the drive up from Brennan, Allison.
09:21:59 I'll respond a little bit in order, but we will be having a lot more deliberations about this very wavy lots of legal record conversation later.
09:22:07 you know DCD. Prepared a great answer to a lot of the questions that Lizanne Coker had had posited.
09:22:15 I hope that can get added to the record as well, because it does address some of those specific issues that she brought up, and they they can they concern me as well.
09:22:22 So since okay, addressing directly to where I will wait until our deliberation for that.
09:22:28 It will say they've been added to the agenda today.
09:22:32 Great. So they are accessible, And, Lizian, if you're listening on the way home, I suggest you look at them because they were informative for me, too, and Alison, you know we're
we're working to make sure that people can use their their property and protecting the environment, you know.
09:22:45 it's. A it's a real to Ed sort, you know, and and where that balance point comes is something that I think is a a policy decision that we're gonna have to take on our shoulders.
09:22:57 and we have been trying to get sewer down there.
09:23:00 The Growth Management Act really restricts our ability to get sewer to non-urban areas.
09:23:04 We've been trying really hard to get it into the the core.
09:23:06 The bin and core, using that state parks where it already exists, and is underutilized and failing even at that.
09:23:12 So we we are agents of the State, and often bounded, in what we can do by State precedent and law.
09:23:18 That's a challenge that we face to Roger.
09:23:24 Great to see you, and I'm you know no one's talking 402 450 foot buffers.
09:23:33 I'm glad we're not looking at that right now, and I hope there is room for the drain is district to.
09:23:37 I think the conversations started again. I'm sorry you're not going to be part of that conversation, but you know I think you're really talking about the lots of legal record
as well and we're gonna do I think everything we can to to protect people's reasonable economic use to their property and
09:23:52 that that includes, as you, as you pass it on to to an a buyer, so appreciate your perspective today, and it is also it it carries way up here to Steven.
09:24:05 I I don't really, you know, have any comments.
09:24:07 You know the the times are of mandates, are passed, vaccines are still very effective at at as one of our mitigations against Covid 19.
09:24:18 And I encourage people to take the the boosters.
09:24:19 I'm traveling in in late October, and I will certainly take my booster as soon as we give give a chance to those that are, you know, over 65 and immunocompromise.
09:24:31 First I will be dancing into line, and thank you to Miss Ball for for your additional support of the sheriff's office.
09:24:39 It's a tough time. Trauma cuts both ways, and my hurt you with the officers today.
09:24:45 That's it. Thank you. Oh, well, said just I'll be kind of more generally great to see you back here, Roger.
09:24:54 It's been too long, and I I'm gonna hold on to that little compliment you gave us at the beginning.
09:24:59 There for a long, long time, You know it's interesting.
09:25:05 Having spent the weekend thinking a lot about land use, and I I am surrounded by people who are interested in land use.
09:25:11 So we This is what we talk about all day long, late in the night.
09:25:18 and yeah, just even hearing comments. Today, you know, we are in this position of trying to decide between a really prescriptive, bright, line.
09:25:28 Yes, no, which you know as as you pointed out, Roger, it's that's unfair.
09:25:34 And unhelpful, oftentimes. And so we try to create a more subjective process, whereby you actually look at a piece of land and the potential impacts and see if you can manage.
09:25:47 And this is true of buffers, too. Right you! You you hope that there's a way that you can come up with a way of adaptively managing for all of the factors on a piece of property
and and and get to a solution where there's an allowable use that is not doing damage
09:26:01 to environment, to neighbors, etc., and then the trouble with that is, it's confusing.
09:26:09 It's really hard to read. It gives people power to make those decisions So we're just constantly trying to find the right balance of that subjective versus Bright line and prescriptive,
and you'll hear, us doing it later today we we spend a lot of time doing it and
09:26:25 it's it's always helpful to get more input to that process.
09:26:27 I'm sorry. It's confusing and difficult to find and read.
09:26:33 That seems to be the nature of code when we try to be kind of reasonable in creating solution, so more to come on that.
09:26:41 But I think that's it for me. I would just working backwards.
09:26:49 I would just add to Steven. I mean, I think I've said this for O, almost over a year You know the vaccines.
09:26:55 They come down to an individual's choice. And it's interesting to react.
09:27:00 I reflect on your comments and react, and based on my own family and conversations I've had over the last, you know, year and a half with my mom.
09:27:09 Who many people in the community know. And she was initially very, has hesitant to getting her vaccine.
09:27:18 but now is, you know, making her choices, and not really.
09:27:24 I don't feel like she's buying into propaganda.
09:27:28 I feel like she's making him based on how she feels what's best for her, and I don't know.
09:27:34 Those conversations are important to me, because they give me a mirror to think about it in terms of it is, it's an individual choice, you.
09:27:42 Know I know a lot of people who aren't getting vaccinated.
09:27:43 I know a lot a heck of a lot more people who are getting vaccinated, and I just appreciate that we're especially now in a time without without the mandates for people have the
freedom of making that choice And i'm seeing a lot of people make making a choice, to get that vist shot
09:28:00 so, and I will be when I'm eligible.
09:28:03 So, and then on the legal, out of record issue. We'll be talking about it a lot this afternoon.
09:28:11 I had a number of conversations over the weekend.
09:28:14 I'm still hearing a lot of confusion about it.
09:28:18 and it'll be an interesting conversation I'm not this out.
09:28:21 I keep saying this afternoon, late late late this morning, Yeah, we'll be all afternoon, probably, And, Roger, it's great to see you It's been a very strange 10 year.
09:28:34 my first 2 years as a commissioner now, without without having ever seen you in the chambers with us.
09:28:38 I remember being in here with you before I was elected, and often you are the the bird on my shoulder in a meeting I'd say, What would Roger say?
09:28:49 Or what would Roger think? And I'm really disappointed to hear you're leaving the community because your voice has been very important on a lot of issues and holds holds feet
to the fire when when need to be held And I think that's important and I'm wondering who you're
09:29:06 recruiting to take on that mantle. Yeah, for you in the community.
09:29:10 So we'll miss you, and I hope that your property sells very slowly.
09:29:18 Job, you 3 happy to do it. Just I can't believe it.
09:29:21 Problems, Yeah, I guess that's it. That's enough.
09:29:27 I mean, we'll have so much more conversation about legal a lot of record later.
09:29:29 But Mark, or do we want to? Maybe we should consider the proclamation now and then do consent.
09:29:38 We could do the proclamation, and then just so we have time.
09:29:46 Okay, yeah, I'll just say it's a short one.
09:29:50 But I cannot imagine 3 more qualified and diverse people to add to the Conservation Features Committee.
09:29:59 That is wow, that just feels like a real 3 strong, diverse perspectives.
09:30:08 And so I'm really really pleased that they step up.
09:30:11 You're here to that one. Hmm!
09:30:19 Yeah, not not a whole lot here. Glad to see that Central, the collective bargaining is completed with the Central Services Department I know that was a long time coming.
09:30:30 21 months after expiration we finally got that right? So we're all we're all up to date now, right?
09:30:36 That was a long until January, when we started new.
09:30:40 But you know I've said before, our goal is to wrap them up before they expire.
09:30:44 going forward, right on, barbecue, wrapped up I'm I'm happy to move that we approve and adopt the consent agenda as presented today.
09:30:52 5Â s, all in favor. Bye, bye, not a post consent agenda passes unanimously.
09:30:59 Okay, Now we can do the proclamation as do we see Josh
09:31:07 Oh, yeah, he's there! He's there.
09:31:15 Good morning, Colleagues
09:31:22 Morning, good morning.
09:31:27 So we have a a proclamation proclaiming October 22 as community planning month.
09:31:36 Who is gonna tee this up for us? It's a fitting proclamation based on the day of conversation.
09:31:43 We're gonna be having together. So I'm I'm happy to start it off with this
09:31:52 I would say they're both certified planners.
09:31:56 Yes, I I just wanted to thank the Board of County Commissioners and and the county Administrator for recognizing this I think if there's one quote that is important to notice
that of Daniel Bernham who was one of the leading planners and and and he stated make
09:32:18 no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood, and probably will not themselves be realized.
09:32:27 Make big plans, hey? Hi! In hope and work, remembering that a noble logical diagram once recorded, will never die.
09:32:39 But long after we are gone we will be a living thing, asserting itself.
09:31:54 So okay, everyone.
09:33:10 Thank you, madam. Chair: Yeah, I know we're gonna come up with quotes.
09:33:03 Thank you, Brent. Josh: Do you want to add anything
09:33:14 But since, Brett you well.
09:33:17 I'll come up with a show. I do a shorter one.
09:33:19 Okay'll go back to Ben Benjamin Franklin.
09:33:17 Yeah, he's looking through that. Okay.
09:33:22 Who said, If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail, or he proposedly said that we could be one of those. Internet Yeah.
09:33:26 Hmm.
09:33:31 anyway, I think that just real quickly. Each Commissioner just expressed exactly that challenge of community be planning It's finding that balance point and wrestling with difficult
ideas that tension between individual freedom Versus Unitarian values and trying to find that balance point what we're trying to
09:33:31 Okay.
09:33:56 Who would like to kick off the proclamation?
09:33:59 Oh, I'm happy to let's see. Proclamation for community planning month.
09:34:06 Whereas a time to celebrate the role and value of planning and creating great communities.
09:34:14 And whereas community planning and plans can help manage this change in a way that provides better choices for how people work and live.
09:34:23 And whereas community planning provides an opportunity for all residents, residents to be meaningfully involved in making choices that determine the future of their community,
and whereas planning includes creating long-term vision-oriented master plans to create great places and services it is about creating a
09:34:40 framework for a flourishing business environment, protecting the environment and building places for healthy opportunities and physical activity.
09:34:47 It is about placing investment in public services, such as water sewer parks, streets, sidewalks, and more; and whereas the full benefits of planning require public officials,
and citizens who understand support and demand excellence in planning, and plan implementation and whereas the month of october is
09:35:07 ign is designated as national community planning month throughout the United States of America and its territories, and whereas the celebration of national community planning
month gives us the opportunity to publicly record the participation and dedication of the members of planning commissions and other citizen planners who have contributed their
09:35:25 time, to expertise to the improvement of Jefferson County, and whereas this proclamation recognizes the many valuable contributions made by Jefferson county planning, building,
permitting, and coding, staff and members of the community who contribute to the development and now therefore the Jefferson
09:35:44 County Commissioner is hereby proclaim October the 20Â s compute Community planning month.
09:35:49 We extend our heartfelt thank heartfelt thanks for the continued commitment to public service.
09:35:54 By these professionals. I claim this third day of October, 22, actually or a week earlier, this 26 day of September, 2022.
09:36:08 Hmm: Thanks: Everyone: Yeah, I'll I'll just say I.
09:36:13 you know I I've confessed to many of you that I'm a want to be land use, planner and life didn't send me down that path exactly.
09:36:21 But I mean I I felt like I The world changed for me when I started to see the world through a planner's eyes.
09:36:33 See how much design affects almost everything we do, and you live largely, unconscious of it, until you start to see.
09:36:40 And so until you put those glasses on. It's incredible to see.
09:36:44 And there's lots of examples of where that's done.
09:36:45 Well and historically, a lot of examples of how it's been done poorly.
09:36:49 So the the importance of of doing it well, I think, is is critical to to all of us doing a good job collectively, and as a society so just really appreciate your work, I hope
my interest in planning isn't too meddlesome for your departments, and huge shout out to the
09:37:09 planning commission volunteers who who do that work without much enumeration for it.
09:37:18 So thank you to them as well. No? Well, well, said yeah.
09:37:21 Of the planning Commission and to the citizens that contribute.
09:37:24 You know, we've had comments today, and and this is A.
09:37:26 It takes a village, and we really appreciate the professional staff and planners at DCD.
09:37:32 And environmental public health, too, really and all the work that you do, and and helping us keep working on that balance, well, they appreciate all the work you've done, to
get us ready for the conversation later this morning and look forward, to having that with you guys i'm happy to move to approve the
09:37:54 proclamation as red with the one adjustment of the correcting.
09:37:58 The dates at the end; second, all in favor. Bye passes unanimously.
09:38:06 Thanks, you. Guys. We'll see you in about an hour and a half, a little less than an hour and a half
09:38:19 Hey? We don't have anything else on the agenda for this morning.
09:38:26 Until 9 45 with Alison. 7Â min. Do you guys want to take a break, or do you want to do some briefing?
09:38:35 That would be fine. Well, Kate always gives me great great for not ever giving her
09:38:49 Yeah, your your discretion. Let's move along unless someone tells me otherwise.
09:38:54 Okay, anyone want to start with talking about what they were up to last week?
09:39:01 Sure. Good! Let's jump in there. Let's see
09:39:09 Here with you all on Monday, Tuesday, Economic Development Council Finance Committee meeting.
09:39:15 just continue to say that there is a kind of structural that shortfall in their funding right now, and that will be coming to to us consideration in some format at some point
or another, had a long meeting with the State department of health.
09:39:37 they have a group of 3 communities who they are all working with climate change related to public health impacts.
09:39:46 heard from each community about kind of the the projects that they are undertaking, and really did a deep dive on how can department of health be helping move, those efforts
along and ended up being some conversation about the the idea of the Federal funding opportunities that perhaps the State can help us to be
09:40:08 getting some additional funding for some infrastructure that might be able to finally address.
09:40:13 You know we we know that there are a lot of climate change impacts and need to mitigate and adapt to, but not a lot of funding to implement those So quite a bit of focus on
how to how to get more funding for those projects had a north olympic legislative
09:40:31 Alliance, steering committee meeting, we decided on our legislative agenda, and let's see, I can announce we have kind of 3 main topics that noah will be focused on one is a
host of housing issues.
09:40:47 That we are not really in a position to be the lead on.
09:40:51 But if agreed to a a kind of suite of legislative issues that we will be involved in supporting those efforts for so when we do a deeper dive on legislation next week I will
share those with you same thing with a kind of rural business.
09:41:08 issues and challenges. That sounds like Mike Chapman is willing to flow to Bill with again a suite of issues and I'll share those with you next week.
09:41:19 Those are still being refined a little harder to get consensus on some of those; and lastly, the electrical apprenticeship issue.
09:41:28 We, we will probably be be the lead on that issue.
09:41:32 so that was great, that that we reached consensus.
09:41:35 There Wednesday was pleased to have a all day retreat canceled, not because I didn't want to go to that retreat, but just nice to have a day open up just allowed me to attend
the Hood now, coordinating Council not a lot to report there approved a
09:41:54 budget that's fairly status quo.
09:41:58 There and then I had a meeting about the child, care facility that we're working with the high school to build up there.
09:42:06 Thursday was in Ellensburg for the legislative steering committee meeting also decided on legislative agenda that is, top priority was the 29 extension which is great to have
was X full throttle support for that effort let's see
09:42:26 if I'll be able to get them in in order.
09:42:30 second issue was working on a Federal exchange of an exchange for Federal funds.
09:42:36 16 or 17 States take in some of their federal funding for transportation projects, and turn it into State money which has a lot.
09:42:45 You are requirements and barriers for use.
09:42:51 So that's an important one, as we see a lot of money coming in that more and more of that will be able to spend like $8.
09:42:59 Just really, important more funding to build jails which I not expecting that to be one of the priorities.
09:43:09 So those are the top 3 See took forever getting home stuck in traffic.
09:43:16 Thursday Nights, It's kind of a nightmare, and then Friday, Olympic Consortium board.
09:43:25 That is our oversight Board for workforce development. Pretty major changes made to the mou for how that board operates, and that will be coming before you to sign.
09:43:33 Also we are all officially members of that, and I have some concerns that I'll take to home sucker before we do that.
09:43:39 A lot of authority was stripped from the oversight board, and given to the Workforce Development Council, which there must be some precedent for doing that but it's interesting
because we still have all the liability as a associated with it so including things like we are no longer but
09:43:57 we we no longer do, hiring, and performance reviews for the Executive Director.
09:44:05 yeah, So I I think we that will work some further discussion.
09:44:12 yeah, and had a meeting with our lobbyist and Monty on the the Point 0, 9, trying to come up with a strategy, or how we're going to continue to advance that bill and the upcoming
legislative session and had a medical appointment that went long and
09:44:28 missed the Caroline Gibson, scholarship.
09:44:31 I was sorry to stuck in Paul's vote a medical appointment, So that was it for me.
09:44:37 I'm sorry, I went almost straight up to the limit. There.
09:44:40 No, no! I can do mine in 30Â s. I know I know good.
09:44:50 Okay, everyone. Let's just take a breath and maybe bring.
09:44:54 Bring our colleagues over, and good a pin and briefing until we're back together.
09:45:00 Later, if we ever get back together with time. Good morning, Dr. Barry.
09:45:06 Good morning, Willie. Nice to see you back with us
09:45:11 good morning, everyone. Thanks for having me. Yeah, nice. It's nice to see everybody, even if I'm remoting in Nice to see you on the Covid front.
09:45:25 The the numbers are a bit mixed nationwide.
09:45:31 We're still seeing a positive product progression. So we're seeing cases down.
09:45:35 18% hospitalizations are down, 14% deaths are down as well, but still only the 432 deaths per day.
09:45:43 Yeah, 400 Americans a day. Critical reminder for all of us of how serious this in Washington state, we're actually starting to see cases trying to in the last week, which is
too early to say whether or not that's part of a larger trend that we're going to see or if
09:46:03 we're gonna see that flattened out. But given the amount of transmission, we're seeing particular with the return to school at this point, I would not be surprised, continues
up but the biggest thing that would turn that around is, is more of us moving forward And getting our own constant that a little bit
09:46:19 later, when it comes to Jefferson County we have diagnosed 5,853 cases of COVID-19.
09:46:27 That puts current case rate at 3 300,000, 700,000, which is roughly flat from last week Our percent positivity is 9 point, 8.
09:46:37 So, looking at about a 50%, I did receive word from Jefferson healthcare that we have 2 people hospitalized with haven't got a lot of data on them yet, so we'll be digging more
into that later today.
09:46:52 We thankfully have had no new deaths due to Covid 19, so we still are at first one for the number of our citizens.
09:46:58 We've lost to this In neighboring column county. We've diagnosed 15,577 cases.
09:47:05 Of course, that puts us at a case rate of 170 per 100,000, with a percent positivity of 7.5, and rough-case entertainment rate of about 50.
09:47:17 Well, we have individual hospitalized in Clown County for a total of 442 hospitalizations, and no new deaths in clouds for a total of 124 of our citizens
09:47:31 So the the big news on the Covid front is the omicron Specific; We are seeing more more vaccine.
09:47:36 Come in to our community. So we are now at a point where it is appropriate to the Florida with getting vaccinated, regardless of your risk Our mass vaccination clinics I'm sure
Willie will talk more about it have been busy, and filling up quickly but our pharmacy.
09:47:53 Partners have been really stepping up, So tri area pharmacy is vaccinating, very efficient. Jefferson.
09:47:59 Health care is also vaccinating. And yeah, pharmacy in Port Townsend has been doing a lot of vaccinating.
09:48:07 so would really encourage folks to move forward with getting your bivalage or home across specific looser.
09:48:13 2 names for the same thing for any 1 12, and up, if spend 2 months or more since your last infection or vaccination.
09:48:22 As we discussed on this sexy 4 months since your last infection or vaccine.
09:48:30 So if you're not in a very high risk group waiting that 4 month, you're gonna get your best from getting back and a little bit on the Mtv front.
09:48:42 4 cases in Washington State at this point. Still no documented cases are Jefferson County, and only one confirmed case in Crown County, with 2 suspect cases associated with
We have diagnosed over 24,000 cases nationwide of Mpv.
09:48:58 So we're still thinking about a more significant uptick in cases nationwide than we're seeing in Washington State.
09:49:05 We do have adequate vaccine in Jefferson Clown County and Washington State as a whole.
09:49:11 So anyone who's had multiple partners in the last year, any gay or bisexual man or transgender person who has sex with men regardless of your sexual history is eligible for
that vaccine we do have it at the health, department call or sign up and we'll make sure and get you
09:49:27 vaccinated. One last quick note on the infectious disease front before we move into questions is we are moving into flu season So I really want to encourage everyone to go forward
and get your flu vaccine as Well, you can get that at the same time, as your covid vaccine and a lot of people are choosing to do
09:45:12 The band's on here
09:49:44 that the biggest thing that we can do to protect it ourselves and our community as we move into the phone get vaccinated both with our Covid boosters and get our future our
neighbors and our health care system. Yeah, so with that I'm: happy to take any questions
09:50:04 anyone got a question Oh, burning question a couple. I'm glad I'm glad you spoke about the the flu, Dr.
09:50:11 Barry. I do feel like, you know, as we come in.
09:50:09 There.
09:50:13 You know, concerned here, the rates going up and school seems like a very logical whether for that or ca causation.
09:50:18 Hmm.
09:50:36 Sure. So we do have a vaccine for the flu.
09:50:37 Encourage everyone to get it, but also our masking.
09:50:41 The goes a long way to reduce transmission of the flu That was really the primary thing that really stopped the for the last 2 years.
09:50:49 that we were messing indoors and so as we see more and more people unlasking indoors, we're very likely to see turn of the flu That's what we've seen in some parts of the southern
hemisphere That are where places are largely unmatched
09:51:02 in and it came back pretty hard. And so, as we will continue to monitor for flu we do what's called sentinel surveillance.
09:51:11 We don't count all the flu cases and we're not seeing, because at the levels of flu yet, but we always are monitoring that every week, and if we see a significant spike in flu
cases, I think, that would be another time where it'd be really meaningful for us to ask
09:51:25 indoors to reduce the risk of transmitting the flu just like covid flu can transmit before you develop.
09:51:32 And so it's really important to protect ourselves and each other.
09:51:37 the flu is not as deadly as covid 19, but it does Americans every year, particularly vulnerable Americans who are immunosuppressed elders or young children, can die of the loop
09:51:51 From that, and all of the ventilation works that we've been doing around Covid 19 also helps for all other infections So good ventilation difference.
09:50:21 But can you talk about how other mitigations other than vaccines masking, and everything might be effective in in combating both blue and covid simultaneously as we enter this
fall season.
09:52:01 And paid Pto right stay home if you're sick.
09:51:59 There.
09:52:06 Goodness, yes.
09:52:13 Yeah, I think a lot of us, you know we have. We have a work ethic that has encouraged us to come to work when we're sick.
09:52:20 We have some might argue an economy that has encouraged us to come to work when we're sick, but that from a public health standpoint is not a healthy thing to do, and it's not
good for your body either.
09:52:29 You know, as a family. If you're sick, I'm going to encourage you to rest.
09:52:33 Get some sleep, take and the biggest thing you can do to both improve your health and protect the people around you.
09:52:41 To not go to work when you, even if you don't have Covid, even if you test it.
09:52:45 Negative. You don't want to give anything else to anyone else at your work, and remember what we've learned from Covid is, you don't know the click status of the people around
you there, are disabilities.
09:52:05 I like that really is the biggest change in my outlook on on a lot of these issues.
09:53:03 Great thank you. And then one other I I missed. I was still on tilt about the school, and I missed the case rate in Jefferson county.
09:52:54 You can't see. There are people who are immunos, pressed or navigating the world who really can't handle those information as
09:53:09 What is that this week
09:53:11 We're at 300, 370, per 100,000. So roughly flat from last last week, Yeah.
09:53:14 So yeah, up a little bit, and then my my last question is, you know, if if about a sixth of our residents have been have tested positive right, but little less than 6,000, and
our case ascertainment, is you know a little less than 50 so, I mean I haven't heard any word along, in a long
09:53:36 time about herd immunity. I think that's because the evolution of the of the virus.
09:53:41 But do Would you agree, then, that about a third, or a little less than a half of our residences, all that have had Covid at this point?
09:53:51 I guess I'm just curious. Not that it means much.
09:53:39 Okay.
09:53:54 Good, I'd have to do a little bit more complex math on that one, and I could bring that to our next week.
09:54:03 What it really today to do that. Well, you want to look at the area under the curve for this full time.
09:54:09 So we've had different cases. Entertainment rates at the, time, and so apply that to our differential cases over the last 2 years, and then some all of that can do that just
not at this moment little more data in front of me but I would say the the concept of Herd.
09:54:26 Immunity has become more complex. How the virus is so really the only infection that is preventing subsequent infection right now is, if you got Ba 4 or 5.
09:54:37 So, basically if you got Covid here June or later, you're more likely to have had the a nice other than that previous infections.
09:54:48 Wild type infection way back in 2020, really isn't buying getting Delta isn't buying you much.
09:54:53 Yeah, thankfully, we are seeing persistent, a 4 and 5.
09:55:00 And so that is leading to mounting herd immunity.
09:55:03 And I think that's actually a little bit of what we're seeing in Cloud When you compare the different rates Clam got hit much harder with B a 4 and 5 months ago, and so many
people have had driving down some of those But the the best way to prevent infection the safest way to
09:55:21 prevent infection is getting made it so good that and I do want to follow that our community is doing.
09:53:53 I'm just curious where we are in that
09:55:35 And I I'm not asking you to do busy work that has no meaning, and it sounds like going back through Delta and before would not have any actual Constructive information.
09:55:28 We are really seeing demand for the booster in our community, and I think that's going to make a heat in our case rate
09:55:44 So please don't do that. But I might ask you again if for a year I might say, Hey, what's our?
09:55:46 Okay.
09:55:53 No last, Last year we used to calculate that a lot.
09:55:59 We were really shooting for, you know, getting 80% of us to some levels in unity.
09:55:50 I heard immunity. If it if it stays as a static and
09:56:06 Thank: you. Okay. Did you have any questions
09:56:04 but we're in a okay.
09:56:17 of of risk, and I really relied on the I'm having home test kits to be able to test before seeing my parents who are older, say, or going into large group meetings which are
resuming more and more just wondering do you have any sense obviously that the free test kit pipeline.
09:56:22 Umhm!
09:56:39 has been shut down, which is, I think, really unfortunate.
09:56:41 But she was sense of if tests will continue to be while widely available, and also any any sense of the the cost on that might go down.
09:56:40 Hmm.
09:57:02 Yeah, that's a big question on our end, too. And it's one we're raising at State calls at this point.
09:57:07 So the Federal support for free task kits has gone away.
09:57:11 The State does still have the say, as covid test, programs you can still get free tests from the state but we anticipate that that is likely going to go away in the coming Month;
around the time that the emergency declaration goes away.
09:57:25 But it's not clear yet. We haven't gotten a clear answer from the State on that one.
09:57:29 The other thing is that we have is that the the free tests that come
09:57:37 To us, and then we send them out to our libraries in our fire department.
09:57:40 And so, if we lost for that, it would be very challenging to maintain.
09:57:49 so I would say, as far as planning on our end as a community I unfortunately I would anticipate that free testing program is likely to fade out somewhere in the fall.
09:58:01 However, we do have a commitment from the State, continue to fund testing in schools so our schools will still have ready access for testing, and we, as a department, have prioritized
making sure there's testing available for higher risk, Yeah, shelters, long-term care jail we support all that testing and even if we have
09:58:20 to buy them ourselves. We plan on doing that to make sure that we can see.
09:58:25 But I think that will change the way the general public, once it becomes Many of us, have capacity to purchase test at pharmacies, and I think they'll still be widely available
at pharmacies, but not all of us do and so.
09:58:40 I think that's brainstorming we need to do for how we will support the most vulnerable in our community.
09:56:52 Or how do we continue to use that as a tool in the toolbox, and incentivize folks to be using that tool
09:58:47 In in It's this great challenge: As a country as a whole.
09:58:53 We we try to move forward from Covid. But there's this tendency for the funding streams to disappear before we're really at a place where we can move forward?
09:58:48 Hmm! Thank you.
09:59:02 From Covid. And that's yeah.
09:59:06 Yeah, and I mean at 10 bucks a pop that's really expensive.
09:59:10 Yeah.
09:59:14 Yeah.
09:59:10 I had a cold last week and tested every day, you know, and like a lot of folks aren't in a position to be able to do that, especially if you family members or yeah, yeah, when
I got my
09:59:26 When I got my booster at safeway at the drive through they gave me 8 free test kits.
09:59:20 Yeah, no, it's it's not an easy answer right now, for sure.
09:59:30 I didn't ask for him. They just you like them.
09:59:31 Nice.
09:59:35 Yes. So knowing that these programs are likely to go away definitely, order from say, yes, Covid test, get some of those state tests in the Jefferson county so that you can
have them.
09:59:45 And I would think about, you know, when you're sick testing.
09:59:48 Maybe 2 days of infection, maybe the first 3, and then saving arrest, prioritizing, asymptomatic testing.
09:59:33 And I said, Okay, nice.
10:00:06 And I remember you talking earlier about the expiration dates on the kits being extended to a later date, I mean, I still have kids.
09:59:56 For if you're going to a high risk, if you're going to be meeting a very high risk relatives Yeah, that'd be when I would leave
10:00:15 I got a few months ago, and I at that time, when you said that, I think I added 6 months on dome or something.
10:00:21 Okay.
10:00:28 Still saying generally, 18 months from their manufacturer dates.
10:00:22 But is there any updated guidance on those early tests that we're still hanging on to
10:00:32 If you can find their manufacturer, date on the box, and then add 18.
10:00:37 that said, If you have cats in your house, they've been at room temperature. You didn't leave him in a car or freeze them somehow.
10:00:46 so don't throw them away, especially when things start getting short.
10:00:50 as long as you see the control, so a line is likely.
10:00:32 Oh, okay. Right?
10:00:52 Still a good time if you don't see a control line, or there's anything odd about that kind.
10:00:53 Okay.
10:00:59 It's funny how, when Covid gets closer to you, am I my chosen family?
10:00:56 Yeah.
10:01:05 how about Covid? My not my mom, or I come up my my closest family members, but my next, my next circle out there, and I was like oh, my gosh!
10:01:13 When is the last time I hogged and kissed them.
10:01:16 It was a while ago, unfortunately so so when it gets close to you, you see, kind of get like, Okay, you know that Heckles go up so my hackles are a little bit up right now,
and everyone stay healthy, and if you've got covid take care of yourself and take care of
10:01:22 Yeah, freshly.
10:01:36 One last thing that might be worth raising is, there is a State program to funding for individuals to phone call
10:01:46 Leave through your work, and you want to access that program. There is for that And we can make sure that's linked from our website.
10:01:32 the your loved ones.
10:02:01 Yeah, any mark, any questions for can I ask one other question?
10:01:54 Okay, we really want to make it possible for everyone, regardless of their employment, to
10:02:12 Yeah.
10:02:22 Yeah, that's true. Yes, yeah. So it's 10 days, except for immunosgress individuals.
10:02:31 And then it's 20 days. The reason for that is because people who are immunocompromised tend to shed live virus much longer than people who don't, because their immune system
hasn't killed it and that's something that we've definitely in the little setting But it is
10:02:06 I Covid is coming in my close family circle as well, and when one of my close family members that has it right now is immunocompromise, and they were advised to 20 days, of
isolation, is that is that Norm or if you're a new account
10:02:49 Some people, and I'm sure, for most people it is.
10:02:54 I get to treat it as a vacation by some of my family.
10:02:45 it's really exhausted, for I mean a compromise industry
10:02:59 Yeah, I mean for people who have have the option. It's like going and spending some time in the woods, you know, like that can be great.
10:02:58 I don't want to see anyone. I thought it was fine
10:03:06 but for many it's it's
10:03:15 That's everybody, except for the immunocompromise, and I think that is one of the challenges in all of this covid communication.
10:03:25 Is that we often forget. And so a lot of the guidance will say, like, Yeah, it's 5 days and and that's often.
10:03:35 Unfortunately, the way we talk, kind of put an asterisk bottoms for their experience.
10:03:41 But it's it is 20 days. Ideally, if you're having challenges related to that, and your work
10:03:08 I I guess I thought the isolation. If we had a positive casing or symptom free after 5 days, that that was enough.
10:03:51 you safe, and your other stuff
10:04:06 it's individuals. So I don't believe it's actually the employer that access the.
10:03:55 I mean, How does one access if you're a small employer, how do you access these State State funds to help folks stay out with
10:04:09 But it is like good release. There's all kinds of things to help people actually stay home, and I think not Enough Members of our community are aware of those, support, and
so important to me.
10:04:21 It's actually something we piloted in Clawham County back in 2,020 We had a lot of migrant farm workers who don't have workmen's comp for things to keep and So we piloted a
program of paying rent and otherwise afford to work and then the
10:04:17 Interesting.
10:04:38 state. And so now it's the same
10:04:40 So independent contractors, gig workers, all qualify for this.
10:04:44 Yeah, even if you're undocumented, you qualify.
10:04:48 So it's a it's a good program. It's a challenge for small businesses.
10:04:44 Oh!
10:04:52 Yeah, handle the, you know, workforce, but it does. Does really help individuals?
10:05:03 Workers.
10:04:59 Yeah, Please do, make sure there's a link on the public health website.
10:05:03 Yes, we'll do.
10:05:13 calling a state number. So we'll we'll make a Facebook
10:05:04 I didn't even know about. Can you repeat how folks access that please
10:05:20 Thank you. I've also wondered if there's a shortage of 500 and 1,000 piece puzzles out there.
10:05:27 I imagine. I imagine millions of people buying puzzles to do when they're on quarantine.
10:05:18 You know
10:05:31 So I was contemplating a personal delivery to the parts of my friends.
10:05:32 Good option.
10:05:36 So anyway. Yeah.
10:05:38 Yeah, that's a great idea. Soup and puzzles always welcome
10:05:46 Alright right jumping into keep We did have one question on Foia. We'll save that for the end, and come back so we can focus on little bit upfront.
10:05:56 But it's a good question one question was asking about the bivalent boosters, and potentially mixing the formulations.
10:06:09 One of the biggest reasons you might be getting Pfizer right now is there's a nationwide shortage of moderna And so in Jefferson County we're primarily meeting on 5 because
we just haven't been able to act moderna upfront so this person
10:06:23 was acting. They had gotten all moderna shots, and they were wondering whether or not they should get a pfizer or booster The original boosters We did actually see an increased
immune response from mixing your formulation. You got a little bit more cross reactivity which we
10:06:39 think is going to provide longer, lasting immunity down the road.
10:06:42 That level of testing hasn't been done with these particular boosters, so hard to say.
10:06:49 Though it stands to reason that that same mixing would hold true here.
10:06:53 so I that also say the boosters, the only crown specific.
10:06:57 what, and so I would take, whichever one your pharmacy or mass vaccination clinic is offering.
10:07:03 They're all very good, and that mixing may potentially increase your immune response.
10:07:10 We just don't have the data to from that yet.
10:07:15 this next person was pressing some frustration that the Nova vaccine has not been approved as a booster yet, And why not? So?
10:07:21 It is true, the November Vaccine, which is a non Mrna Vaccine, to provide by some folks who didn't want to have an Mrna Vaccine is not yet approved as a boost The primary reason
for that is that nova acts did apply
10:07:37 to be a booster, but all of their data was for individuals who had received the Novak's primary series, and they didn't have any data on the efficacy at The Novaax Booster For
people who had gotten which is the vast majority of and so the Faa
10:07:53 didn't feel like they had enough data to say that that would be beneficial for the majority of the possible. But there is a trial ongoing from Novak Right now, looking at the
efficacy of their omicron specific Booth that started in May we should have that data and I anticipate We
10:08:09 are unlikely to see a Novaax booster very very soon, probably in the coming months but it's just not yet been approved.
10:08:16 But that's the primary reason. It's that most. They didn't have data for what is the experience of
10:08:26 a couple other questions. Here, there, see this person had Covid 19 August fifteenth had tech a little bit, and then had some rebound symptoms August seventeenth.
10:08:38 How long should I wait to get the new omicron.
10:08:40 Smith, and I would say, take your first day of symptoms like August fifth.
10:08:47 then add 4 months to that, and so generally 4 months class.
10:08:50 August fifth, unless you're in a very high risk group.
10:08:54 So if you are undergoing chemistry, therapy, if you're municipal, Yes, if you're over 65 and have multiple underlying health conditions, I would get that 2 months or August
the so depending on your risk, got it add 2 months to august
10:09:07 fifth. If you're in kind of a general risk group had a formula side of the The good news is in August.
10:09:14 You likely had, Dxi. And so you like, we do have community to our current circulating variance. So it's not as emergent that you move forward with your booster
10:09:27 asks, Does the body's ability to resist coronaviruses weaken with age?
10:09:33 and the answer is your body's immunity to resist any virus, and through this, any bacterial infection, all of the yeah, body's immune system decreases ability to fight as you
get older.
10:09:48 And so that's really what we see with, not this coronavirus flu bacterial infections?
10:09:57 All those kinds, So this person was asking you know, if Covid is. I'm in my forties.
10:10:01 If Covid is still endemic in my sixties, seventies will my body's ability?
10:10:08 and the answer is probably, Yes, but it's not really covid specific.
10:10:12 It's just your body's ability to find us the biggest thing that you can do to to improve your body's ability to fight off in sections is to do everything else to stay healthy.
10:10:23 Well, sleep exercise care of yourself when and seeing that it looks like the videos for some of my colleagues are freezing.
10:05:42 Well, I'm sure there were Kbtz questions, because I saw them go by, and so
10:10:31 But hopefully, everyone can see, hear me. Okay? Oh, good, thanks. Yeah.
10:10:38 And then yeah, it figure it's probably me. Luckily, I'm called in, so you should still be able to hear me.
10:10:47 is it possible to catch such a low dose of covid and combat it so well that one experience is very low, level, of sensor, and does not test positive on a rapid antigen.
10:10:57 Test at all, and the answer is, Yes, so particularly for fully vaccinated individuals who are up to date on all their boosters.
10:11:04 We do see? We do see cases where basically their immune system. It.
10:11:11 So you develop symptoms. And that's your immune system.
10:11:15 Responding to your vaccine, but you never actually go on to develop the severe case of the virus or potential Eat and test positive on an Antigen test the reason why we know
that those folks.
10:11:23 Do get it is, they they do often test positive on a piece.
10:11:30 this person particularly had had a significant in their life, Had had some friends We've gotten covid and so, they're wondering And what does that mean for?
10:11:38 My my booster time, and I would say, as far as affecting, when you time your booster, I would only really count in sections that you were able to dust.
10:11:51 so I if you, if you had this occasion where you may have had Covid.
10:11:54 But it's not clear. You never tested. Positive. I would still go ahead and get the booster.
10:12:00 At 4 months since your last, either Okay, or booster, that you have.
10:12:06 it's just possibly you didn't get it at all.
10:12:09 Got something else, or it's possible that your body thought it off so well.
10:12:13 But it didn't really do it. It really significant.
10:12:17 Simulate your immune system. So that I'll just say only push back your booster if you really know you had code.
10:12:27 if you tested positive for Covid, and you know that that then last, but not least, if you were really really curious, you can potentially get a Pc.
10:12:37 because those tend to stay positive for months after you've had Covid.
10:12:42 But is a good use of your your time and money and healthcare system function?
10:12:47 Probably not so. I wouldn't really put last, and not least, someone asked about polio.
10:12:53 So if you've been following the news, polio has been detected in New York.
10:12:57 The first case that was diagnosed was an individual who developed paralytic polio, and then subsequently they tested the wastewater in New York and found that hundreds of people
in that area have Covid and That's expected a little bit about polio it is something that
10:13:13 comes up, as we talk about Covid. I know when I've talked to folks who are vaccine, hesitant.
10:13:18 They often reference cool you Virus: Yeah, people work getting up in iron lungs The interesting thing about polio is it's very similar to Covid.
10:13:30 Most people who got polio felt like they had a cold or the flu.
10:13:35 but some people ended up in that, and that's very, very similar to Covid.
10:13:38 Most people who get covid feel like they have a cold, or the flu, and some people end on ventilators, and some people And so it's actually pretty good analogy to what we're
dealing with right now, but I think the challenge, we have has been messaging And has gotten in
10:13:54 the way of people, perceiving how dangerous but polio is in New York, and unfortunately, we are not doing enough wastewater surveillance in the rest of the country tree to find
out when polio arrives in other parts what is it beyond New York.
10:14:15 As we've learned before Virus don't follow state boundaries, and so I would be very much if at some point we started.
10:14:24 I don't think particularly in places where we have low vaccine coverage for polio.
10:14:31 We are likely to see. Polio is spread to the seat the oral route, but it also has a very likely respiratory component as well.
10:14:40 So if you have not been back vaccinated against polio, I would highly encourage you to get back.
10:14:44 Say it against. I have friends and relatives who who have been vaccine Hudson, or have spaced out their vaccines for their children, and often the one that they pick polio because
we don't because we historically haven't had it in the United States, but we do have it
10:15:03 now? So, if you are one of those parents which yeah polio I would strongly encourage you to move forward with getting them back, because we are very likely to I am pushing our
state really hard to start doing wastewater surveillance for as you guys know, we have a wastewater
10:15:20 surveillance in Jefferson. It costs money for the sake to change over that to a polio, but observation site, but I do really think that would make a big difference and so but
it's funded program so I can't can't make them. Do that. But I'm really encouraging them to
10:15:37 do really good way for us to catch polio before we end up with anyone paralyzed.
10:15:45 this individualist question was, I have a friend who knows that she was not maximated because her family was Christian, and she's in her seventies.
10:15:54 Does it make sense for her to get vaccinated? And I would say, Yes, most adults in our in our country got vaccinated.
10:16:02 But if you really know that you did, I would go forward with getting the vaccine.
10:16:10 polio, was endemic, in in the 1,900 thirtys and fortys in our country.
10:16:15 However, that doesn't guarantee that you have and it doesn't necessarily guarantee that you have persistent any mild infection you might have gotten back.
10:16:23 So do go ahead and get vaccinated. If you know that you haven't, or particularly if you have kids who are not vaccinated, really important to get them back vaccinated, soon.
10:10:36 Hear you. I think it was your video with the
10:16:41 I have one just follow up question on the the monitoring sewage and everything.
10:16:35 And so with that, happy to take any further questions that came from our commissioners in that process, or pass to Willie
10:16:46 Is it? How cost prohibitive would it be for local municipality to say, Well, even if the State's not going to as long as we're doing, you know, tests on for Covid we can we
want to pay for this?
10:16:47 Hmm.
10:17:02 Fair question. The challenge is actually lab capacity at the State.
10:17:05 So that's where we send our samples, and they would need to kind of.
10:16:58 Extra test.
10:17:08 Reconfigure, their lab capacity, really their call.
10:17:11 Unfortunately, but I do know that in Clown we've had communities that move forward in a private companies to do waste water surveillance. I don't know if any of that is happening
for polio yet but I am going to keep an eye out the Cdc sometimes We'll do pilot projects directly
10:17:10 Gotcha.
10:17:27 from Federal to local. And so, if any of that comes up as an option for us, I will company apply for us to be included
10:17:38 Good work for our regional health officer, too. Right
10:17:46 Anything else for Dr. Barry. No more questions Crop up.
10:17:52 No? Okay, Willie, What do you? What? We haven't seen you for a while?
10:17:56 hey? Yeah, Yeah, Good to be back. I took my well, it was kind of ironic, because I tried to take my big sort of coming out of the Covid pandemic. Response.
10:18:08 My first long vacation, I went to Alaska to visit some family, and went on, an extended bike ride, and then came back and was back at work for 2 whole days, and then we're back
in the mass vaccination clinic came So was a a nice welcome back to see and work, with that same
10:18:24 team, both of staff and fallen. Yours again. We're back out at the the Jimicum School district, multi-purpose room on Saturday I'm in 335 Clinic and Dr.
10:18:36 Barry mentioned the vast majority were Yeah, about a 100 were moderna with the rest of them being the Pfizer vaccine.
10:18:45 we're coming up will be at import kind of just like before that Moderna side of the clinic is completely full.
10:18:54 We do have about 50 spots left available for the yeah Omicron specific boost.
10:19:03 So spaces are available there. Call us here at D. E. M.
10:19:05 Or go to the public health website, sign up and go have your spot there, and we'll be down in Quilsee following Saturday, and there is still space available in that clinic as
well, I mean as Dr.
10:19:16 Barry mentioned our pharmacies have again been doing some really stellar work.
10:19:22 If we had put up a drive through clinic. It's on like Mark that one on priority of pharmacy has.
10:19:28 This is available. Well, I'm so give them a call for whatever reason.
10:19:32 One of our Saturday large mass vaccination clinics don't work for you, and we are talking about.
10:19:38 We'll be in port this coming Saturday.
10:19:42 We'll seen the following, We're talking about scheduling couple more later in the month of October Uber, however, with the emergency declaration ending at the end of October
that does kind of limit What we can do beyond that date with the with fema funding as well
10:19:59 as emergency authorization for our use of volunteers.
10:20:02 So we're we're kind of looking through. The end of October.
10:20:04 What our offerings will be, and we'll be sure to not be there.
10:20:08 otherwise we thank everyone for coming out on Saturday, looking to seeing more folks this coming Saturday, app Aaron I'm gonna get all your local farmers.
10:17:56 Tell us about where you've been
10:20:20 And there is, so am I understanding this right? There is no like age recommendation anymore.
10:20:26 We're not looking at only people over 65.
10:20:29 We're looking at. My husband is 63 can now get vaccinated.
10:17:41 Yeah, absolutely. We'll We'll push them on that, too.
10:20:33 Yes, anyone anyone swelled enough It's it's open to everybody now.
10:20:32 Get his booster. Okay.
10:20:45 Right.
10:20:48 Thank you, Willie. Glad you We had some activity for you when you came home.
10:20:57 Nope. Any other questions for Willie or Dr. Barry?
10:20:37 Thank you for those who who did wait a couple of weeks to let our highest risk individuals get vaccinated first, but we now have enough for, so it's a good time to go for
10:21:07 I We're not. A lot of counties are putting up mask, and it's they've been doing this for years, and they still show up, and they still have the best attitudes even though they're
giving us every Saturday for months to do do this so just a big thank you to everyone who
10:21:03 No.
10:21:25 evidence of love for their community, Grateful to live in this community?
10:21:33 Okay, Well, it's looking at all the clocks, and they all say something different.
10:21:39 But it's about 1020, and maybe we'll take a little break before we start with our parts.
10:21:44 Hearing at 1030, and then move into our legal lot of record hearing.
10:21:48 So we're gonna have a long fit session after 1030.
10:21:23 makes.
10:21:51 Thank you for being with us, Dr. Barry, and we'll look forward to seeing you next week.
10:22:00 You better. Okay, We're gonna recess until 1030.
10:32:05 I'm having trouble hearing. Sorry.
10:32:21 Can you guys hear me? Sorry about this. I had this setup and working
10:32:33 What is the number? If I were to call in on the phone?
10:32:37 Okay.
10:33:34 half an hour.
10:33:51 oh, I would be here for now. Can you hear us now?
10:33:54 Yeah, I can.
10:33:55 Oh, good. Oh, it was! It was on our end Oh, it was our our fault, Matt, not yours.
10:34:01 Okay, I feel better now.
10:34:02 You have it.
10:34:05 That's causes me a panic attack every time
10:34:05 Everyone, Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Well, I've got another loaded question for you just before we before we get started.
10:34:14 I mean, I've read the pros plan a couple times, parks and wreck and everything, but with the with our agenda we didn't have a link to it that was live anywhere, i'm wondering
how time critical it is because we didn't we're having a hearing now, but the
10:34:27 public, would have really had to search. It wasn't even on a county website only in the county parks, website which is not easily findable from the county website.
10:34:14 Okay.
10:34:35 So if we waited a couple of weeks, would it be problematic?
10:34:43 No, I don't think it would cause a problem from our end.
10:34:48 We could definitely re-advertise if you thought that would be appropriate.
10:34:53 The the plan has been available for a long time. And it's on the very front page of the county wreck.
10:35:02 But I do understand what you're saying. Should the agenda should have had a link right in it.
10:34:38 I just wanna make sure that the public gets a chance to look at the good work that's in this plan.
10:35:07 Yeah.
10:35:11 I mean, I guess the Carolyn is the other option.
10:35:14 We could keep it open, but I I saw the original hearing notice, and it did not have a direct link to the document, so I would suggest starting over and they need hearing. Notice.
Would have.
10:35:27 direct link to all the information, and then for the vcc agenda for the week of the hearing, include all meeting Israel's as a Pdf.
10:35:07 So you just click right there.
10:35:36 So that we can post that online for everyone. Hmm: Yeah.
10:35:40 Okay.
10:35:43 Sorry.
10:35:48 So we are not gonna have a hearing on adopting the Jefferson County 22 proximate recreation open space and trails comprehensive plan.
10:35:59 Today, we are going to reschedule that. Do. We have an estimate of when we'll reschedule that, for there he is canceled and and and rescheduled for Collins, check in our calendar.
10:36:12 Well, it's unless you can come back with the update here.
10:36:17 You notice right now there's a newly deadline today for the leader.
10:36:20 So for next week, 2 2 weeks, 14 days. Right, right. But you have to have a hearing that is approved by the Vcc.
10:36:28 Today, before noon, and then you can publish, and on Wednesday's paper, on the 28, and then also on the fifth, and then good.
10:36:38 Could you open the hearing and continue it? Well, right now, like I said, here original, hearing us didn't have a link to all the documentation.
10:36:47 So it's almost like I don't suggest so, Matt, Do you think you could have a hearing notice work with Adele to have a hearing notice to the leader by noon?
10:35:45 No, I. It's my phone right. I should have done that
10:37:03 Possibly, if I could get staff to do it, I'm at home sick right now, so I couldn't. I can't do that.
10:36:57 Just update it. Yup
10:37:14 Well, we have the previous hearing notice. Just change that link on the original hearing notice, and send it with It was I can send you a link.
10:37:08 But I might be able to get Staff to do that.
10:37:21 I can. Yeah, I can do that. Just the one on the county recite is the one that you would link to right.
10:37:23 A link to the actual plan. You mean
10:37:29 Matt: Okay, Yeah, I'll send it to Adl and Carolyn and yourself right now.
10:37:30 Yeah.
10:37:35 Okay, great. And then yes, we We could probably essentially have that turnaround and prove this morning. And then you would advertise or have staff advertising for this Wednesday,
and the following Wednesday and then we could have hearing on the Yeah.
10:37:49 On the tenth
10:37:54 October tenth.
10:37:53 Okay, look at the agenda planner. Well, yeah, again, cool that.
10:38:02 And we'll make sure that during those at the right time
10:38:09 Alright. I sent it
10:38:13 Okay, So
10:38:00 Okay, I'll work on that
10:38:19 We will just stand by for an updated hearing notice
10:38:26 Okay, So we're we're gonna postpone this hearing until we think.
10:38:31 October tenth, unless our agenda is too packed.
10:38:33 But we will be getting a hearing. 1030 on October tenth.
10:38:22 Yeah, I'll work on that. I apologize for the inconvenience
10:38:40 Looks like it'll work
10:38:41 Okay? Very good again. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
10:38:47 Okay.
10:38:45 No problem, Matt. Just wanna make sure that we have maximum transparency for the public
10:38:49 I'm glad you caught that. Yeah, Okay, thank you.
10:38:53 Okay, You better
10:38:57 Okay, though. So we now have 22Â min of calendar time for more briefing.
10:39:06 So? Can I make one revision to my the legislative priorities report I made earlier.
10:39:12 I forgot to mention the fourth priority, which was, that will be taking up in session, which is, make sure I get the language right.
10:39:23 Oh, I closed it, basically creating a some sort of good certainty around what?
10:39:32 How behavioral health services are delivered. Hey? Can a a statewide standard?
10:39:38 Yep for access Apparently it's been, you know.
10:39:42 Services have been kind of wildly divergent, and how they're available, and how they're being provided among the Mcos and Bhjasos and so trying to create some standard there
So I you will know more about this than I will probably both of you having been involved
10:40:00 in the Behavioral Health Committees, but so stay tuned.
10:40:04 That'll be a big push That's what they've been trying to do the last 3 years.
10:40:09 When they moved from you know the The Aso. The Yeah.
10:40:15 And when they move them to administrative only, Oh, well, yeah, hmm!
10:40:22 Or shall I go last week? Let's see with you guys on Monday on Tuesday I was invited to meet with a Mason County and Shelton homelessness task force They were just getting off
the ground so I I zoomed into their meetings sharing Trask and
10:40:43 some other good folks from down there, and they're just getting started, and we're really looking for what had worked.
10:40:49 What happens, gave a little presentation about how we developed ours and and continue to iteratively improve it.
10:40:57 And just yeah, very, very helpful. I think I offered to go back, but they were very appreciative that I'd both at the the strides that we made, and and and sharing that the
progress with, I did hear from the city Manager Jeff Knighton he was very grateful
10:41:12 for your your health. Oh, great! Well, it was a pleasure!
10:41:17 and then the the food bank developing that, developing a new building down and quilting.
10:41:22 That meeting was canceled, But I did go to the Harm reduction meeting for South County, and kind of just reforming a little bit, you know, With the the departure of Laurie and
Apple's been taking it over and kind of reframing it and Yeah, still, the State funding
10:41:40 for narcan naloxone, vending machines is kind of gone.
10:41:46 So looking for other options, the locations. I think we're talking, or one in Brennan, perhaps at the Community center and one up in in North County somewhere.
10:41:55 As well to to create more opportunities. Of course our harm reduction talk at the Board of Health.
10:42:02 We ran out of time, so we'll come back to that.
10:42:04 But there was really informative article in that about syringe exchanges, reducing, you know, the amount of just like accidents that happen from losing needles around and and
reducing the loose needles by 50% and I think It was Baltimore and that was
10:42:22 tuesday met with a couple of different residents, as well. Couple residents on Wednesday and then, the Olympic area agency on aging, had its audit exit conference for 2 of the
4 audits It's doing right now and absolutely clean audit I asked if
10:42:38 it was an a or an a plus, and they said a solid, a So I'm really really grateful at the at.
10:42:44 The hard work was a lot of different programs coming, you know, 58 million dollars and medicaid funding comes through both 3 A to to help folks with aging in place at home and
then we had our community conversation, committee which is a committee of the housing fund board and it.
10:43:03 Was the first time that we had met I'd heard from some of the housing providers in the area.
10:43:09 real interest in restarting some of the conversations that had happened with our affordable housing task force.
10:43:14 That don't. Since we've really reduced this.
10:43:18 The the group there, so welcome them. So we had representatives from bayside and and only Cap, and Dove House at the meeting, as well as some community advocates, and I could
we've got some some great stuff came out of that which i'll take to the housing fund board this week
10:43:38 but I go back to my notes, I can tell you. Hi, points of it real quick.
10:43:46 there. Rank must have just different notebook
10:43:53 Oh, what I'm gonna miss, remember! But they 1 One of the issues was housing solutions network, and others are really focused on workforce housing, and our kind of refining a
proposal for a housing Czar essentially and really think that the city would be the appropriate place for
10:44:14 the to live as they're really focused on workforce housing, affordable housing 80 to 120%. Am I?
10:44:22 And a little bit out of the and so largely looking in the urban growth area, the one activated one that we have of 4 towns looking at reconvening strategic planning, between
all the different agencies and kind of the other advantages that came with that that the larger larger
10:44:43 group. I'll have more after we take I'll have specific notes that I take to the Housing Fund Board this coming week and and bring stuff back, Jeff Calm on Thursday with Mark
and it's going.
10:45:00 Well, we're gonna have a special meeting this week. The The budget has some pretty active items in it, and a little bit of refining to do is as we. Process.
10:45:07 The you, the hiring and incentive hiring and retention incentives that we've we've added to for for the for the staff there since they're you know it 60% or so of of staff and
it's really creating a lot.
10:45:23 Of stress So we're gonna have a special meeting this week to reconsider the the budget for 23.
10:45:29 Then a couple of meetings with folks from the residents, and then the swack was unfortunately canceled, due to staffing shortages, so we did not have a swack meeting, and then,
we had agenda planning for the housing fund board meeting.
10:45:50 This week, and then on Friday couple of calls, but mostly I I took off and built my first high tension fence, so attention to my first fence, develop new skill set.
10:46:04 it, it! It is tense. Now. Okay? Yeah, And then you know over the weekend from squeezing for a reason, helping.
10:46:11 You know, getting health, health, materials, health care materials to Ukraine and the port towns, and film fast that there were some great great movies that we saw some that
I didn't like but That's you know it's but Yeah, love loved having in person again.
10:46:28 I love the shorts, I'll tell you about one My favorite one was about this guy who was congenitally blind and runs a diner in New York and just takes everyone's order walks around.
10:46:38 And the 3 staff members are his 3 kids, and just just a wonderful story.
10:46:46 And then another one that's very strong. Stranger gate that about a real trauma inflicted Afghanistan Afghanistan veteran coming back, and and the the struggles that he had
with the Muslim Center in Munsey Munsey Indiana
10:47:00 where he lived, and and it it made me cry repeatedly.
10:47:05 It was really just a heart, warming heart, warming story.
10:47:07 So love being back at the 4,000 film festival Usually you, if you're a member, you can get the movies after the festival in their little film.
10:47:17 Library, and they were all streaming this time, too, so I'm kind of old school that way, like the Dvds.
10:47:26 Okay, I'll do mine as quick as I can, and lead time for Mark.
10:47:32 but Monday was with all of you Tuesday spent most of the day with Mark and a bunch of other members of our county team interviewing central services director candidates, and
I think we selected.
10:47:44 One. We all were excited about and Mark is in the process of real them.
10:47:50 In, so we look forward to making an announcement about that soon, and my mark might may have more to share.
10:48:02 on Wednesday I had a meeting with us around the straight ecosystem restoration network, local integrating organizations, legislative priorities, and then a meeting with mark
and Mallory about the forestry survey that she Is going to be doing of county and state forest
10:48:23 transfer. Those are the lands that Dnr manages on behalf of Jefferson County tracks in Jefferson County.
10:48:31 So we're moving forward with that, and we'll have a workshop for the public on either.
10:48:39 In that last week of November, the week after Thanksgiving middle of the week.
10:48:44 Date is still to be determined, based on certain people's calendars and coordinating that on Wednesday I went out and did virtual reality training with some of our team at the
Sheriff's office.
10:48:59 Thank you to Brandon Shakovsky for inviting us to do that.
10:49:05 He encourages any of the rest of us who want to go out and experience that to make a date with them, I think they have it till the end of the month, so not much.
10:49:15 Longer and as I said earlier, did put you in, let me in 7 different scenarios, and I think it was quoted some I I was quoted somewhere as saying, I'm sorry, but i'm gonna have
to taste.
10:49:30 You so it was. It was stressful for sure, and a good experience to have, and I was grateful for them, providing the opportunity.
10:49:39 Mark and I did agenda prep. I went to the Chicago Empire teams Coalition meeting met the new principal of the Chimicum Junior Senior High school.
10:49:52 It's exciting to see. I remember when all those vacancies came up, and I was a little panicked, but they've refilled those positions and it seems like they got some good.
10:50:00 Folks serving in those roles and leadership for the Timicum school district, which is great.
10:50:08 Then I went to a meeting on the Derek vessel.
10:50:12 There's this Northwest Straits Commission has funding right now coming through Federal Federal funding for Derek vessel removal, and we were asked to identify any additional
derelict vessels and near shore and marine waters, locally and so i'm.
10:50:30 Working on it. Subcommittee with the likes of Carol Hasi, who knows much more about what's on the water and what's not than me, but was excited to be able to announce there
that the project that I was involved in right before I became a Commissioner under like Vessel
10:50:45 recycling is being piloted this month with the Olympia the port of Olympia is sending some recycled bye glass vessels up to the concrete facility in Richmond dc and they're
using the recipe that erin
10:51:03 Barnett and I developed for recycling fiberglass, and wood hull.
10:51:08 So it's super exciting that it's actually being operationalized.
10:51:15 then I went to the Nrdc. Meeting, and Kate's place on Thursday, and that was the first time I'd attended that meeting, and and got exposed to a very large diverse group of folks
from the North Olympic Peninsula and was excited to hear
10:51:35 from everybody, and it was kind of it was kind of overwhelming.
10:51:40 All the updates were a little bit overwhelming.
10:51:41 New information for me. So good good forum. And then Friday I attended in person my second in person, meeting as a county commissioner, with with a group in a group, setting
with the straight er N lao at the Red Cedar Hall, in Blynn and I think 8 people 8 or 9 people intended
10:52:04 and person, which was it's felt, super fun and about 25 people attended online So it was a good hybrid meeting, and I did not go to the Spencer Forest products, open House,
as I said, I would because my girlfriend.
10:52:23 Who passed last year. We had her garage sale on Saturday, and I felt like that was Saturday.
10:52:29 I call Heidi's Day, And so that was what I wanted to do on Heidi's day this last week.
10:52:35 So I have left. I have successfully left Mark a bunch of minutes for any updates.
10:52:45 He has.
10:52:46 My turn. Yeah, Okay, Monday all day with the Board.
10:52:53 Tuesday, big day, interviewed for my replacement is central services.
10:52:58 Director, young fellow from Philadelphia. A lot of policy experience with the city.
10:53:03 There, I think we're We started off about 3 inches apart, on negotiating.
10:53:09 We're now a quarter inch apart, I believe I'm impressed with the research the young fellow did.
10:53:17 I actually looked up my contract from 2,017 and use that as a basis for a counter offer to what we had offered to begin with.
10:53:26 And so I I think we'll probably have that deal sealed today.
10:53:29 Don't know what start date might be, but we're gonna negotiate that as well.
10:53:33 So great news. I'm encouraged. Wednesday, I I missed a fair amount of the meeting with Mallory because I had other matters to attend to.
10:53:44 Thank you, Hi! You for allowing me to do that, But I think that that program is off to a good start.
10:53:51 agenda, planning. With hide in the afternoon, and then on Thursday good meeting with Brent.
10:53:59 My weekly, and then a very good meeting with Upcom.
10:54:04 You know we had a an exact session. Can't talk about it, but it was.
10:54:09 A it was a excellent session, and I think that organization is in good shape.
10:54:15 I was surprised to see the user fees that they're projecting in the budget for next year, and that's serious reduction for the county.
10:54:24 And whenever you see a big change like that, it always makes you ask questions like, What are we missing?
10:54:30 And so more work to do on the jeepcom budget.
10:54:34 and then, of course, we met with Cindy Brooks.
10:54:41 John Horow, Aaron, Berg, Kevin Street, and I the midterm checkup, and she's making the case that in order to get grants from a funding source that she needs like 3 years of
longevity, before they'll consider
10:55:00 granting money to Edc. And she also says that absence and increase in funding, she'll probably have to lay off staff and so I think 3 of the 4 governments are on board with
amending the agreement to add time and adding additional funding for Edc.
10:55:25 There's one government, I think that is, that we'll have a bit of difficulty coming to grips with that.
10:55:30 But more to come on that, and something formal will come to the Board for consideration on that
10:55:42 And then Friday. Of course, all staff was gone. Nice open day for me.
10:55:47 I worked on the Rfp. For community wild fire protection plans.
10:55:54 It's now in the hands of a fire marshal for editing, and then we'll get that out.
10:55:58 And hopefully get a consultant on board to begin that work, and January long overdue work.
10:56:06 So that's it. Where are we at? On the strategic planning?
10:56:09 Rfp: Oh, I I think proposals are due.
10:56:16 Oh, yeah, right, yeah. Yeah. And then we're pointing a strategic planning committee that will review proposals and maybe bring in for interviews. You know the top 2 or 3
10:56:35 in the other updates wash up in the last few minutes for the go to the order or questions based on what we all just shared.
10:56:44 I'm curious, mark any progress on the communications position.
10:56:50 Yeah, Sarah and I. Convinced, commenced work.
10:56:53 She'll have a revised improve job description.
10:56:56 Probably this week. I'd like to get a out before I and Grease.
10:57:04 October tenth. Maybe you'll find someone in Grace and will we have an opportunity to weigh in on the job Description?
10:57:13 certainly. Yeah. And and the hiring decision. Thank you. Any other comments or questions based on information we all just shared, I would say I did go to the Caroline Gibson
first.
10:57:28 Annual scholarship, presentations, and they were awesome.
10:57:33 The 3 kids that did the marine studies work under these scholarships.
10:57:38 It was really heartwarming to see, and a really interesting intersection, and all of their work, with kind of the marine and human communities, and really, looking at how how
communities and within, each one somewhere very technical but one was really looking at the human communities interaction with the rain, environment, which I think
10:58:00 Caroline would have been very inspired by and proud of.
10:58:04 So was good. So these the first 3 kids that were funded by the first cohort, so could I have an alibi Last week.
10:58:14 I think we heard a complaint about a contract that was entered into for an amount below 10,000. That was subsequently amended, causing it to go above 10,000 I've consulted with
little Pun soccer and he and I both agree that that information requiring the amendment was
10:58:31 unknown at the time the original contract was let, and so there's no violation of our procurement ordinance, nor state statute.
10:58:42 in addition, the qualities of the contractor were such that we probably could have done a sole source award which would have obviated the competitive requirements.
10:58:53 Anyway, And so I think the county is completely clean on this. Okay, Great.
10:58:57 Thanks for the update
10:59:01 Any other updates or questions we've got. I'm in it.
10:59:12 Okay.
10:59:21 No, everyone. Just take a deep breath. Stretch a little bit It'll be not shares for a while.
10:59:26 We have windows a little more
10:59:31 Oh! Maybe just a a reminder. I am gone. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of next week.
10:59:37 I'm not yeah, public health business out of town. So okay.
10:59:43 I welcome, Look through it, and see if there's anything I I can ask you guys to cover.
10:59:49 you got a little time
10:59:54 Okay, Oh, Brian, I don't see them yet.
11:00:07 Okay, So it is 11 o'clock, and we have a item on our agenda for 11 Am.
11:00:13 This morning. It's a hearing regarding the lot of record issue determining well, we're gonna have a briefing from staff before we open the hearing, so I will not open the hearing.
11:00:28 Yet Oh, I can And then we have a briefing. Okay, Sorry new girl.
11:00:32 Still the new girl here yeah. Okay? Well, Brian comes over I'll open this hearing regarding lots of record regarding an ordinance to determine the legal status.
11:00:45 Of Lots Site Development Review Boundary Line Adjustment. Amending Chapter 18, dot, 10 and 18.35 in the Jefferson County Code, adopting a new chapter, 1812, adopting a new article,
7 in chapter 18, point 4, and miscellaneous other amendments to chapter 18.4 of
11:01:05 Jefferson County Code, We're joined by our team from Department of Community development.
11:01:10 Brin Butler, Our Community Development Director, Josh Peters.
11:01:14 Our community development, planning, manager and Brian Benjamin.
11:01:18 Our community, development assistant planner, who have been putting in a ton of work on this issue.
11:01:31 okay.
11:01:24 We look forward to hearing from members of the community who've joined us in the room as well as those are who are with us online and checking in checking in with staff before
as we were putting this, on the agenda last week, we decided it would be important to do a briefing and and kind
11:01:46 Yeah, yeah, right one. I know
11:01:41 of setting the stage for this hearing. So I think Staff is prepared to do that for us, because there'll be people who are joining us today who have not been in for any of the
other briefings, So I will turn the table over to you guys thank you madam chair and members of Blue board of
11:02:03 County commissioners. We are here today to discuss how policy could improve certain aspects of the world character over the long term.
11:02:21 I wanted to highlight. First. We've received quite a few community comments and questions, and I wanted to point out that in response to these questions that did come in, we
have provided a detailed online response.
11:02:41 so that it is clear of how these regulations may impact a property rights and property development.
11:01:57 Yeah.
11:03:05 No? Okay.
11:02:49 We wanted to make sure this was available for all community members, and so we provided that in terms of a supplement to the September 20, sixth, 22 agenda request in that supplement
we have also provided the resources that we've used to make recommendations and I
11:03:17 wanted to highlight that we have background. Information included one A.
11:03:12 Yeah, no.
11:03:26 Through F, and this includes a our approach to determining how best to conduct outreach to the community, and I wanted to thank those planning commission members that assisted
us.
11:03:41 I also wanted to think of the realtors of Jefferson County, which assisted us in helping determine the how to conduct that outreach, and then I also want to thank our technical
advisory committee for the record this is being brought to you by 2 departments the department of environmental
11:04:04 Public Health, and ECD. And we should have someone that the Department of Environmental public Health available on the phone as part of this.
11:04:13 Hearing Yeah, the director of that department is with us. Pinky Mingo prosecutors off state a little something, too didn't they?
11:03:30 Yeah.
11:04:21 Yes, and I also have to recognize the real support that both departments have received from our prosecuting attorney's office.
11:04:30 Yeah.
11:04:32 Our chief civil deputy, prosecuting attorney, Mr.
11:04:36 Huntsucker and our civil deputy, Barbara Arlickman.
11:04:33 Bye, bye, alright.
11:04:41 Thank you. In our packet, as I've indicated one, a really goes to the heart of the outreach, and that we received one B.
11:04:53 Really. We looked across the region, and we tried to find relevant examples, and when I say relevant, I wanted to make sure that the community is aware that not all counties
are relevant And Why?
11:05:09 I said that, and I'm referring to recreational demand for shellfish, harvesting under environmental closures, abstract a scholarly report which indicates that the huge sound
Washington estuary provides perhaps the most valuable, shellfish
11:05:32 habitats in the Pacific Northwest through harvesting opportunities, though harvesting opportunities are regularly constrained by health related closures.
11:05:42 Thus this is so important that we have our public health partners here today.
11:05:47 non-point sources of solution, pollution, and I say, non point.
11:05:52 Those are sources of pollution that are not related to a specific source, such as a leaking tank of Diesel, such as storm water, and these are the nonpoints.
11:06:05 Such as storm, water, runoff sewage systems and farm animal waste has been cited as the leading cause of new pollution closures and I'm history.
11:06:18 I'm referring to some scholarly research that was peer reviewed.
11:06:22 So in our approach to one B, we looked across the county.
11:06:27 Some of the counties, like Gadget, are similar to our county.
11:06:31 They do have the Gadget River. They do have a lot of farming operations, and and they do have provisions for a reasonable economic use.
11:06:42 So we tried to borrow heavily from those counties that were close to ours.
11:06:47 We also have illegal lot of record update staff report which we provided to this board on the twenty-fourth, and then we've also included of the Attorney General Opinions that
are relevant and both critically, important to note is that these opinions identify the
11:07:13 handling of lots and plots that predate subdivision regulations, that what policy, options the Board and us as a community have, And then we've provided on part.
11:04:54 Yeah.
11:07:28 2 examples, many different counties, and the processes that they currently use included among them are the code citations from Western Washington, jurisdictions, specific citations,
from King Gadget welcome Kitsapp.
11:07:48 And Clark counties. So I wanted to make sure that all of this information is available.
11:07:56 As his response to all of the questions that we've received that are very detailed, and that show That's right, Interrupt I didn't mean to.
11:08:06 Oh, and and those answers are really helpful in helping the community.
11:08:12 Understand how this ordinance is applies, and at that juncture I just wanted to introduce our planning manager, Josh Peters actually I'm gonna interrupt you before you do the
introductions I I love the Packet that you're talking about in referencing I thought it was
11:08:27 a attached to the agenda, but I don't see it on the agenda.
11:08:32 helpful, and if Albert, you need to understand how this ordinance is applied.
11:08:30 Where would the public find it if they yeah.
11:08:40 Someone's okay. Maybe captured on over there. No, Linda, you need to turn av cat capture off because it was yeah gleaning into our broadcast on the agenda.
11:08:59 Greg it says updated document packet, and there's a Pdf.
11:09:02 Symbol to the right of that which brings up the frequently asked questions and all the materials that that Brent just went through.
11:09:10 The links were not live on that, because it was in laserfish.
11:09:17 it's a little challenging. So on the agenda.
11:09:20 If I go, and still I'm not seeing it.
11:09:27 Good question, and then as an update documents packet.
11:09:33 No got it. If you would like what the staff can do is after the presentation, we can go through the questions and explain them.
11:09:44 It is up to the board, and we'd be more than willing to do that.
11:09:46 It's very helpful. Even after the refreshing.
11:09:48 I don't see it.
11:09:53 And sorry. The The links are live in the agenda.
11:09:56 they are. So I I missed. But once you go into laser fish, some of them aren't, but that's a weird. An issue. We have.
11:10:05 But I think so. They're available to the public is the important part.
11:10:10 Okay? Well, I'm glad they're up there, but they're not up there for everyone on this dias right now, But but I do have it.
11:10:17 I just wanna make sure the public has it, too, so maybe going through might be helpful
11:10:23 Okay, and we could do that at the end of the presentation, just to make sure that everyone is clear as to how this applies.
11:10:30 Thank you, and at that juncture pass it to Josh
11:10:38 Hi Josh Peters
11:10:43 If we had more time, then this information would have been available, say, like a week ago, and not post it on Friday, and digested over the weekend and talked about today.
11:10:54 So apologies for that but there were a lot of good questions that came up from our workshop last week, and we wanted to do our best to respond to those questions which is why
we tried.
11:07:40 Okay.
11:11:02 To do that. So, as Brent said, Happy to talk about it any juncture today.
11:11:05 Now, later. Whenever you want, or not at all. So there are some questions that came in from the comments that we received, or that were discussed last week, and so those are
part of this information packet. Also.
11:11:20 We wanted to provide the survey results or the link there to their survey results Brian's about to digest those again quickly for us, and then, a comment about the storymap
which has been available for a few months.
11:11:32 Now and then, finally some additional staff consideration staff recommendations to the ordinance itself, which Brian will go over.
11:11:39 But they're also detailed on page 8 of the 8 page info packet.
11:11:43 So at this point in there any other questions? Turn over Brian for just a short set of slides to get us going.
11:11:52 great. Thank you, Josh. I'm just checking my microphone, making sure you can hear me. Great, Thank you.
11:11:59 And then a slide. Check Make sure that they're moving for you.
11:11:50 Sounds good
11:12:03 Can you see these move? Great: Thank you. Good morning, Chair. Eisenhower and members of the Board for the Record.
11:12:11 I'm Brian Benjamin, Assistant Planner with me department of community development, and today's presentation will provide a brief summary of the proposed legal lot of record
regulations in preparation for public comment and board deliberation
11:12:27 Before addressing the specific changes proposed in this ordinance.
11:12:32 It's important to take a broad view of the proposed changes and answer the basic question, Why is the county changing its approach to leave a lot of record determination processes
What is the purpose of these new regulations first this ordinance?
11:12:48 Responds to an emergency. Moratorium. The restricts development in historic subdivisions throughout the county.
11:12:56 The moreatorium responded. 2, 3 development permit applications proposing and mass development within historic plats without public process, moratorium created restrictions
on development within historic subdivisions to prevent high density development occurring in the county's rural areas the proposed regulations will
11:13:19 replace the emergency moratorium and implement permanent regulations
11:13:25 As a part of these regulatory changes, the proposed ordinance implements, the standards of State law.
11:13:32 Primarily the Growth Management Act and Rcw. 58, 17, which governs plats, and subtitles.
11:13:40 Your nets proposes standards to preserve rural character, protect environmentally critical areas and control impacts to natural resource plans as well as ensuring that development
within historic subdivisions meets the health welfare and safety standards outline by the state
11:14:01 Additionally, the regulations ensure the development throughout the county meets watershed, resource, inventory areas, or whatever provisions and considers potential water quality
impacts generated by development.
11:14:18 The substandard plots, potential impacts to water resources include both water quality.
11:14:23 And water availability concerns
11:14:30 The overarching goal of the ordinance is to allow development of substandard lots where environmental water quality, the natural resource impacts can be avoided or or mitigated,
and where existing higher densities are already located
11:14:48 The ordinance proposes 2 processes, by which lots may either be accepted from forming to zoning standards, or be granted.
11:14:58 Reasonable economic use of the Property Meeting residential development.
11:15:04 We'll address those processes later. But for now, let's talk about what is proposed to change in the unified development code
11:15:16 The amendments proposed in the ordinance include a new chapter of the Unified Development code.
11:15:20 Chapter 1812, and identify as corresponding changes to 2 existing chapters.
11:15:27 Chapters 1835, and 80 10, which resp. amend boundary line adjustment, pro provisions, and the Udc's definitions, based on the new processes of 1812 In addition.
11:15:43 The proposal also introduces a Site Development Review process to Chapter 1840, that it companies the legal lot of record determination
11:15:57 Public participation indicates that the proposed regulatory approach, so that that list, that sequence of purpose and a tent of the ordinance that this proposed regulatory approach
is supported by the community today, there have been about 2,060 views of an educational website created by
11:16:18 dCD That's the story map There have been a 113 responses to the community surveyed.
11:16:26 That's Community Survey, published for this project. That's a response rate about 5.6, 5 of the target, audience which were the 1,900, and 60 were approximately 1,960 recipients
of a postcard mailer sent by DCD.
11:16:45 To inform potentially affected property owners. With these regulations in development is important to note while the survey is a resource that DCD.
11:16:57 Considered strongly in its development of these regulations that we did not get enough response is to reach statistical representation of our target audience.
11:17:08 That said the survey results retain value as the best available information on with perception.
11:17:15 That's the core policy issues under consideration. For these regulations
11:17:22 Survey results indicate development. Interests should be balanced with water quality and environmental protection going.
11:17:31 The survey identified water quality and critical areas protection as the 2 top 2 priorities for these new regulations.
11:17:41 This graph represents the prioritization of policy as indicated by survey respondents.
11:17:47 The first priority for these regulations is water, quality, protection, followed by avoiding impacts to environmentally critical areas.
11:12:04 Yep, we can
11:18:12 Hey, Brian can I ask who was the target audience?
11:17:56 Then, but allowing continued development and historic subdivisions, then achieving health, welfare and safety standards in historic subdivisions, then conserving natural resource
areas and lastly, preventing residential sprawl yeah.
11:18:18 Yeah, the target. Audience were the 1,960, I think.
11:18:24 As well 1,966 recipients of the postcard.
11:18:29 It was also available as a public community survey. So really the whole, the whole community was able to participate.
11:18:16 When you say, target, audience for the survey
11:18:49 And the postcard was targeted at people with added, That's correct.
11:18:55 It was targeting those individuals that had sort of that concept of bundle of sticks that they have property rights associated with the parcels we did that because of the concern
about having those that are directly impacted although the general public, is directly impacted as well, because the
11:19:19 these are platted in the areas that are would impact our shellfish, And that's a an industry very valuable resource for Jefferson County.
11:19:30 But we did not reach out to the shellfish growers.
11:19:34 We only, or the recreational users want to make sure that you're aware of that. That.
11:19:40 This was targeted specifically those that owned the parcels.
11:18:39 But our targeted focus and our analysis for when statistical representation would have been reached, was for those postcard mailers
11:19:53 They're moving on among the most essential aspect of the person opposed.
11:19:58 Ordinance is determination of eligibility to develop a given lock.
11:20:04 Gcc: 1,812 outlines, when a lot of record can be considered a legal, a lot of record meaning.
11:20:11 It's eligible to receive residential development.
11:20:14 First a lot can be considered eligible for development if the lot meets standards So a lot within the rural residential one to 5 zoning designation that is at least 5 acres
in size would meet criteria for leave a lot of record status a substandard lot
11:20:34 meaning any lot that is smaller than the lot size indicated by its zoning may still be considered eligible for development.
11:20:43 If it meets the exceptions identified in 1,812, 7 0, sub 4 sure, or the criteria for reasonable economic use, processes identified in 1812, 8 0, so even if a lot does not conform
to zoning standard there are 2 avenues by which property
11:21:05 owners can demonstrate that their lots are safely developing
11:21:12 The substandard lot. They qualify as accepted from the reasonable economic use process.
11:21:18 If it meets the following criteria, it must meet minimum land area, for septic disposal.
11:21:26 The property was properly planted on or after August eleventh, 1969.
11:21:34 Any lot already approved by the counting that would include permit application, approvals and other kinds of configurations.
11:21:45 So recognition through large onsite septic facilities, that kind of legal establishment of improvement to the lot, signifying that it's available for residential development
Lots with them are going to be considered accepted as long as they can meet environmental health standards again lots within the
11:22:11 Uga will have the same exception applied to them, provided that a lot can meet environmental health standards.
11:22:17 That'd be water, availability and subject disposal.
11:22:21 And finally owners of contiguous substandard locks can combine their lots to meet zooming standards to the greatest extent possible.
11:19:45 Thank you.
11:22:31 Okay.
11:22:46 So can I, just for the benefit of the public here ask the question I asked last week again, which is the boundary that defines the iron dail?
11:22:58 Port had lock. Uga is the original broader, the larger boundary, not the phase.
11:22:31 So if you own a series of blocks and you can combine them to a more conforming lab, then you can consolidate those lots, combine them, and then move forward through this exception
problem yeah.
11:23:04 One sewer boundary that we're currently working on.
11:23:08 Correct: Okay, I had a lot of questions about that over the weekend.
11:23:12 So I just want to say it out out again that we're looking at the larger iron. Del Port had lock Uga boundary in the comp plan
11:23:22 Gosh! Something bad. Yeah, we hold up a Sec: Brian.
11:23:07 That's correct.
11:23:26 So sure, Eisenhower, that the main purpose of that is so that in those areas that aren't subject yet to the urban standards that we already adopted, but haven't implemented,
because of sewer availability could still develop they would use other tools to do so to meet environmental health standards such as
11:23:46 restrictive, covenants, or other kinds of ways to to be able to develop.
11:23:50 But we wouldn't want to have lot consolidation within the Uga, because when sewer is available for the available for those errors, We want to have the full capability of development
available.
11:23:27 Okay.
11:24:12 Okay, moving on to a reasonable economic use processes.
11:24:15 Jcc: Well, 0 8 0 defines 2 reasonable economic use processes available to applicants, the first for their individual properties, and the second process available for determination
of the entire platform.
11:24:35 The 2 processes share similar approval standards which include environmental health confirmation.
11:24:42 That the proposed sewage, disposal and water supply are adequate, and will not cause degradation to water.
11:24:49 Quality, the property is served with adequate means of ingress and egress.
11:24:55 The property has adequate drainage facilities. The lot is directly adjacent to existing lots, tracks or parcels with residential development.
11:25:13 The proposed development. Activity will not adversely affect the public, will not adversely affect public safety and welfare.
11:25:24 Proposed development will not increase. Risk of flooding degradation.
11:25:27 Critical areas or species, or degradation to natural resources.
11:25:32 The proposed development is the minimum necessary to allow for reasonable economic use of the property.
11:25:38 That's in alignment and referencing to the minimization standards of the critical areas for that's the shoreline master program which essentially says that development has to
you minimize.
11:25:52 Impact. You aren't just automatically able to build any project.
11:25:56 If the choices between a castle and a moderate home minimization that the the home is the moderate size, phones, preference, and what but is allowed on the property and then
recognitions of Lot would not impact, forestry resources, and this is referencing prescriptive buffers that are
11:24:01 Still. Thank you.
11:26:29 Brian, can I ask a clarifying question on this?
11:26:19 the exist in the Udc. And Chapter 1815 providing setbacks from 4 street parcels
11:26:32 Did you get through all the criteria
11:26:36 Okay, and our it is necessary to to demonstrate on all of these factors.
11:26:47 Is that correct? Or is there still a kind of subjective weighing of the 200 factors?
11:26:35 Yes.
11:27:04 It's a checklist in the sense that you have to at least meet all of all of these criteria.
11:27:12 But in terms of the threshold in which you meet these criteria, there will be some capability to provide some weight is that specifically around minimization standards for the
proposal and for sure resources.
11:26:56 On on whole, Do you see what I'm asking like is this: Is this: Does this a function more as a checklist, or more as a thing list of things to consider and making a decision
11:27:44 And do you mind going back one slide just real quick, just to to clarify how we understand the the lot is directly adjacent to an existing lot check to parcel with existing
residential development, is that in an effort to maintain real character.
11:27:58 That you're not increasing amount of residential in areas that have rural character and and trying to maintain some consistency.
11:27:35 I think there's some opportunity to create flexibility inside of those processes, but you do have to meet all these standards to meet with the reasonable economic use provision
11:28:06 That's right. The idea is that we would focus allowing development.
11:28:06 There.
11:28:21 Great thank you, and I would just point out through the chair that some of these provisions, if you go to the next slide, Brian, that you were on just a moment ago.
11:28:34 we already have in 1,515, for example, for our flood damage, prevention ordinance that we're supposed to be looking at what happens to that flood plane.
11:28:43 If we allow development, will it cause, or essentially displace flooding to other property owners?
11:28:13 In areas where there's infill per potential in that neighborhood, then prevent development from expanding in areas where it doesn't exist.
11:29:12 Currently
11:29:13 So the staff recommendation kind of recapping, and and where the staff recommendation is is going, is that effective implementation of legal lot of record, determinant determination
process to determination processes would be guided by requiring a determination prior to all development permit applications and county and
11:29:38 establishing the Site Development Review process, provide some assurance that development, eligibility.
11:29:45 The answer to the legal question under subdivision. La and build ability coincide.
11:29:54 A good example is this of this would be an accepted lot for for meeting connections, forming. That's in conformance to zoning.
11:30:02 Excuse me that's a 5 acre lot in a rural residential one to 5 acres zone is automatically It leave a lot of record, but without assessment from dCD build ability meaning the
site, conditions that are present there on that specific property may restrict development altogether and
11:30:24 So the side development Review process is really intended to be a service to people interested in developing their property, to ensure that the answer of our legal question,
Is it eligible to receive development is masked with onsite conditions and also how to bring our processes in the conformance with the department
11:28:51 That's one of the things that we're supposed to be looking at, And another is, we have this known net loss provision, and our shoreline functions. And So that sort of gets to
that other aspect of what we're already implementing So just wanted to point that out
11:30:53 Can I ask a clarifying question that I probably asked 10 times already?
11:30:46 health and helps alleviate some review process changes that we might both departments would like to see mate
11:30:57 Brian. So there's 2 steps there requiring the termination of legal lot.
11:31:03 A record, and then the Development Review love it. Development Review. I still don't understand what DCD.
11:31:10 Gets from that first step. What do you guys get that you don't have from Just it's a It's a lot
11:31:19 What what additional information, other than going through this process? In 1812, as DCD gotten that, will.
11:30:57 Yeah.
11:31:31 So in the past we have not reviewed consistently, and there's no provision or procedure identified in the Udc.
11:31:43 To determine whether it Lot was legally created or not, and under state subdivision, provisions, that is, a determination that we should be making in a predictable way, so requiring
a determination prior to all development permit applications in the county allows the county to assess whether a lot was legally created
11:32:05 and is eligible to receive development. It's possible that there are illegally created lots that should not receive development that could receive development If we didn't have
this process, implement.
11:32:20 We also offer in in doing some in creating this process, for all permit applications, and reviewing all lot, create a a distinction between lots that are legally conveyable,
and might be bought, purchased and sold for inclusion and other kinds of projects from those that are just developable on their
11:32:46 own. And we answer kind of an investment question Is the lot buildable?
11:31:27 They're not gonna discuss in the development review process
11:32:51 Or does it? Is it just conveyable to the
11:32:58 Yes. But prior to the Site Development Review, there's that legal eligibility question and they're tied together in some circumstances.
11:33:06 So the reasonable economic use process really couples the Site Development Review or evaluation with the leave a lot of record to terms.
11:32:54 That's the Development Review establishes whether it's buildable right
11:33:16 So it's a project and site based review process
11:33:28 It's really hard to say, and part of the reason why it's hard to say is because we haven't had any processes like this.
11:33:19 And how many illegal lots do you think we have? What on a percentage, I mean, like 1 10%, a fraction of a percent
11:33:35 Yeah.
11:33:38 Yeah, it's been out right. And if we've had questions, there has been sort of a an ad hoc way to approach answering those questions.
11:33:48 but that's a big, if if something raises a flag during the Normal Development Review process, currently then we can go to the Assessor's office or turn to legal counsel with
questions about the history of the property but it hasn't been a predictable process, and likely has been an
11:33:36 We've assumed a legal law, basically and
11:34:11 So you don't think we would get the same level of protection if we assumed it was a legal lot, unless a red flag was raised.
11:34:21 And sort of like the way kits have county. Looks like you're like every lots of legal, you know.
11:34:25 That's legally done at the time of its planning is is legal.
11:34:06 inconsistent application of those kinds of questions about the origins of property in the county
11:34:34 I think the the answer to that question is that for platted lots that there is some level of reliance.
11:34:43 And again our our exception process will go back couple of slides.
11:34:48 Here our exception process does include those lots that were created in conformance with contemporary subdivision standards.
11:34:58 there is the big issue of unplatted lots.
11:35:01 There are lots of these simple lots whose history is not recorded in a subdivision process at any point in history.
11:34:29 We're assuming, unless a red flag is raised, and then we're gonna have to look into
11:35:09 so we have to consider lots that aren't a part of subdivisions, and the best way to capture the situation for those lots is to require the determination prior to development
applications for that for that lot and that also again, provides the a service to an appant where if they have a lot that
11:35:29 wasn't created legally, and they don't know it.
11:35:32 Prior to investing money in creating their site, design there, home and septic designs.
11:35:13 Hmm, hmm.
11:35:44 I mean, it's a new question that probably people weren't considering before.
11:35:48 I guess I see that Josh has pulled the microphone closer to his mouth, so I think he has something to say, so, as you know, we are designing the implementation while we're working
on the policy, making itself.
11:36:04 So right now we are designing a process that offers options to customers.
11:36:09 Most customers, we think, will choose to fill out the one application form, and do both the legal lot of record determination and the site development where you concurrently
just be one process.
11:36:21 Some customers may elect to simply do the legal lot of record process, and we will offer or shorter process that doesn't cost quite as much to do that.
11:36:30 Perhaps they want to have some level of insurance when they're buying and selling property.
11:36:34 And it's a quicker timeline that then we can answer the bigger question about bill ability.
11:36:40 That's one reason someone might do that also. Some lots might be more complicated.
11:36:44 As Brian was getting into in terms of actually asking that eligibility question before you even get to the buildability analysis
11:36:52 It is interesting. The most of the county is examples you provided have a 2 set process there as well, determining legal, not, and saying very explicitly, That does not mean
that it's buildable
11:35:41 They're getting an answer to a fundamental question right away
11:37:15 Here's a a flow diagram or a sanctity diagram demonstrating what the process will look like.
11:37:21 We'll start with a permit application on all lots that want to develop.
11:37:24 This is the legal out of record determination process and we'll establish whether the lot was legally created in this blue area.
11:37:33 If it was legally created, it'll be consistent.
11:37:37 A lot of record if it wasn't legally created.
11:37:40 It's an illegal lot, and is not eligible to be conveyed or built on
11:37:47 Moving forward from lots of record. There's kind of 2 broad categories.
11:37:52 There are conforming lots for zoning standards, so lots that meet the zoning base density indicated by the land use district, and then substandard lots lots that do not meet
that area requirement and are not conformed forming labs will go directly into the site development review
11:38:13 process, where both environmental health and DCD will assess site the site and indicate where development is can be supported and identify soil conditions and water availability.
11:38:28 And then sub standard lots will go through a process where they're reviewed.
11:38:35 Under the exceptions. So first we have to see whether the lot can meet an exception.
11:38:41 Does it meet one of those criteria? Can it meet minimum Lot?
11:38:44 Let's give it minimum land area requirements, receptive disposal, If it can, then does it.
11:38:52 Was it legally planted on or after? August eleventh, 1969, or any of the other things?
11:38:59 Does it already have permit approvals on it? We'll go through a checklist and determine whether it meets exceptions.
11:39:05 If it does, and then again go through the Site Development Review process for DCD.
11:39:10 Environmental health. We'll answer questions, about build ability, and if it doesn't, then it could go through the reasonable economic use process which allows a little bit
more flexibility in the sense that it's both a site review and a project review process So this allows applicants to propose their building and their
11:39:31 septic design to show and demonstrate that their parcel can be safely developed; and if it can be, if they can, demonstrate that they're meeting standards for environmental
section and protecting water.
11:39:43 Quality then they will be granted. Leave a lot of record status for that design for that proposal, and if they go meet the standards, then they yeah, will not be granted.
11:37:09 Back to Brian. Back. Brian
11:39:59 Brian question here. How would you anticipate?
11:40:04 nonconforming uses Well, I'll say largely unpermitted uses.
11:40:11 Yeah, this process could very well uncover a lot of non-performing or unpermitted uses on land existing How do you anticipate dealing with that influx of new in some cases?
11:40:25 Violations. We'll say new information on parcels.
11:39:55 That eligibility
11:40:31 Yeah, I I think the we would kind of keep consistent with our application of code compliance issues that there will have to be an identification identification of what the violation
is and then, a an agreement.
11:40:51 On how that violation will be resolved. Prior to issuance of development permit applications I don't know for certain whether it would hold up a determination of legal a lot
of record status that's.
11:41:04 Something I don't think we really explicitly discussed, but essentially we would follow the process process as we would for any other person.
11:40:30 Hmm.
11:41:15 Commissioner Dean I. To supplement what Brian said.
11:41:18 We have a compliance program and there is a prioritization process within that program.
11:41:23 So this would be consistent with that. It's really it about new development.
11:41:29 Whether that's completely new development on a vacant parcel.
11:41:32 New development. That's expansion on an existing parcel, an additional building like an adu.
11:41:39 So if there were a parcel that we, through the process, discovered essentially that there were some un permitted structures, Of course we'd have to take a look at that.
11:41:46 Is it legal, non-conforming, or and so forth?
11:41:51 In other words, was it permitted at the time, and rules of change, or whether whether it was really un permitted.
11:41:56 But the bottom line. That I wanted to communicate is that this would help prevent us from allowing we new development or expanded development to make a situation that already
needs correction.
11:42:06 Worse before we could work on the correction aspect of it.
11:42:12 And and the other add component, I would add, just to supplement for those in the audiences that we've seen over time that the policies that we implement many of them are are
implemented through state law or through Nashville programs like our international code council which prescribes all of
11:42:38 the building codes that they are becoming a little more restrictive over time.
11:42:45 So it actually is best for person that has an unprimited use to come in as soon as possible, because with the redulations becoming stricter, coming, less our ability to permit
structures are are decreasing, and So for example, we've had some instances where a parcel or project that was
11:43:11 proposed, 8 years ago, was permissible. We did allow a building within 30 feet of the shoreline under an earlier smp, but now we do not allow that, And so if someone has developed
and today's standards the new regulations apply and so this is always one of the most frustrating or
11:43:35 difficult. We hate to say no, but in those instances, for those that have built without a permit.
11:43:42 That may be the case Well, in so often the cases that somebody inherited those when they purchased a property.
11:43:51 I say this with a lot of experience, and you know I am just aware that there could be a chilling effect for folks to come in like if if it's going to daylight if this process
will daylight a lot of those non-conforming.
11:44:09 Legal or not, uses you know I'm just sticking through. How?
11:44:15 How, how do we not let that have a chilling effect on either new development or getting permits for projects on?
11:44:24 you know land existing, you know, just we want to encourage people to be coming through the doors, not that discourage them right.
11:44:34 And and we could discuss this in another workshop. But there are quite a few examples of amnesty programs.
11:44:40 and so we could look at that If that's a concern, and it is desired by the board.
11:44:46 Thank you.
11:41:11 Application.
11:44:52 No no problem, So I'm gonna run through our additional staff recommendations.
11:44:58 These were incorporated into the information we made available on Friday, just gonna run through them now for any members of the public, public who weren't able to.
11:45:07 You Our staff recommendations got in a a recommendation to wave pre application conference requirements for type.
11:45:14 2 permit applications that are required for reasonable economic use, processes for a single lot.
11:45:22 Note that this can be done administratively, now seeking some initial guidance on whether that's appropriate and I think feel that the the pre application requirement for reasonable
economic use review of single lots would be redundant to the function that we're serving through that
11:45:40 process, We've got an additional note here. There's some clerical errors here in there that we're going to be fixing.
11:45:48 recommend addressing the next was a change to the preamble of 1812, 7 0, so 4 that should read development permit if it meets minimum land area requirements for septic is determined
by the department of public health wet rather than referencing a policy 97 dash o 2
11:46:13 directly A. DCD. And environmental public health recommend altering this language to refer more generally to environmental health policy on minimum land area requirements for
septic systems state and local regulations affecting minimum land area requirements.
11:46:31 May change, and referring more generally to these policies, just keep the language up to date with policy changes as they occur
11:46:45 We've also got the recommendation similar to this.
11:46:50 our current definition of legal art of record refers to whack 2, 6, 4, dash, 2, 7, 2, a dash 0, 3, 2, 0, 5 e.
11:47:02 I. And the recommendation is to replace it by removing 5 e.
11:47:09 I again this alteration anticipates change to state regulations and size.
11:47:15 The correct and applicable subsection that will remain once changes; or if changes are adapted
11:47:25 We also recommend a change to Section 7 of the ordinance, adjust the effective date to October fourth, instead of effective.
11:47:34 Immediately just lines the effective date up with the expiration of the meeting for you, and as prefer and is preferred to being effective immediately, should the Board choose
to enact the ordinance.
11:47:47 Following, hearing.
11:47:52 We've got some key considerations. Yeah, that I wanted to address prior to breaking into discussion, or whatever the next step is, we might review the Q A.
11:48:05 Included in the in the information packet that we sent.
11:48:11 But the the ordinance, as it's currently proposed, allows development in historic subdivisions and elsewhere, where it's safe and practicable to do so.
11:48:23 And we're existing higher densities are located.
11:48:27 So we want to just affirm that the coordinates creates a procedure by which we're identifying safe and practicable development in conformance, with other sections of our code
and reorganizing our review process to make sure that development is occurring safely and in a sequence
11:48:49 that reaches that result. And then again, the community survey well, didn't reach statistical representation.
11:44:51 Sorry, Brian
11:49:18 Hey? Brian, can you show us the questions that were asked on that survey?
11:48:58 It is the best available information that we have about broader opinions from the public about this issue, and the survey indicates that water quality protection and avoidance
of critical area impacts by the top 2 priorities for policy followed by allowing continued development historic subdivision questions
11:49:25 I have the slide that has the power policy kind of areas of focus in our policy.
11:49:21 One more time. I know you had that slide
11:49:31 Oh, that wasn't the questions
11:49:31 See, No, no, there's a I think there's about 20 questions on survey.
11:49:38 Okay, thank you. No.
11:49:38 Yeah.
11:49:51 And then finally to kind of wrap that up the team.
11:49:58 Final note on debriefing for what is proposed in the coordinates is that the proposed policy ensures that new development and historic plots may needs, expectations set by the
State and it's, plots and subdivision at standards so it's really a health welfare
11:50:16 and safety alignment with existing State regulations.
11:50:22 And again. That's to bring new development in historically create plants and to better conformance.
11:50:29 It's not going to be perfect, because those plots are historic.
11:50:32 But into better conformance with health, buffer, and safety outcomes that are expected in subdivision
11:50:41 So that's the end of this presentation, and we have an opportunity to review the questions in the in the information packet.
11:49:46 I just gave grave going printed out copy of the Survey
11:50:54 Thank you, Brian. It seemed like there was interest in reviewing both the questions and staff responses to the questions.
11:51:02 Probably so. I don't know. Yes, pulled off on lunch.
11:51:10 Yeah, So I'm happy to work through lunch.
11:51:13 But I'm all afternoon. Yeah, we can take it later.
11:51:16 I feel like making it way through. Certainly. Testimony: Yeah, great I take a 5Â min back now, you ready for anyone can take one at any time.
11:51:27 You can walk out and come back. Are you good at work?
11:51:33 Quite right Through noon time meeting was on. I felt like it was something I I should attend, But I'm not.
11:51:43 I'm not playing it up. I have it here.
11:51:54 He must have deleted it. I always think. Oh, I'll remember.
11:51:57 I never do, And this one was something I thought. Oh, I should really plan to attend.
11:52:03 So we did notice it.
11:52:08 I have it. Here it is
11:52:13 Brian Abbott Vishberry Removal Board
11:52:20 That's okay. I'm I would very much like to attend that.
11:52:22 But not critical morning. I think we should. We should cancel it then.
11:52:31 Maybe Monty can attend that. Or is it attending it?
11:52:35 I don't know. I don't even know if he's listening, but
11:52:42 That would be great. Just in case he doesn't know what's happening.
11:52:51 Okay, So we have decided to can to work right through everyone's good.
11:52:57 With that, I'm not seeing anybody jump up and down.
11:53:01 Okay, Okay, we are. So I think the next item on our emerging agenda is to review the questions that were sent and the staff responses to them, which would be helpful for me
because we just got them on Friday and I did have the opportunity to read them, all but I I read them, like this
11:53:23 with my highlighter and lots of colored markers, so I did have some clarifying questions but it's important to note, too, that they just got posted on the agenda today, and
So for the public's benefit it's important to go over them as well Yeah, so we have a
11:53:40 roughly 13 questions, and I'll take the first question through the chair.
11:53:43 Okay, the proposed ordinance includes a list of documentation.
11:53:48 They may be required to prove a lot or parcel is a legal lot of record.
11:53:55 This implies that the code administrator could require All of the items on this list.
11:54:03 Why can't I record lots prior to to 1,960?
11:54:07 9 Why can't I record? Why can't we courted locks prior to 1,000?
11:54:14 969 suffice on their own, And this is the staff response.
11:54:18 The code administrator could require. All the documents on the list but that is unlikely to happen, except for another rest of instances.
11:54:30 The list is meant to provide both the customer and DCD.
11:54:33 Flexibility in the review process, which is similar to other application requirements in the development code lots platted probably to enactment of the State subdivision statue
1,969 may require more documentation in the determination process then lots.
11:54:54 Lots of plaid after that date as needed. DCD.
11:55:00 could, and I should say, would develop a standard operating procedure, providing the more specific guidance based on different circumstances, and and I I believe that standard
operating procedures is an approach that many governments have taken and we would adopt that approved, that was my question should could be W.
11:55:22 Would So Okay? Cool. Hmm: That could be what could be would.
11:55:29 Yeah, that's a good question. Good. Any other questions on that first issue that was raised?
11:55:37 Nope.
11:55:41 Nope makes sense, and again similar to how other counties, what other countries require in terms of documentation
11:55:54 Okay, Do you want me to read the question or do you want to do the same pattern here?
11:56:05 so the proposed code and related sections seem to address the heart of the matter, and effectively impose a requirement for a single owner of multiple contiguous lots that were
plotted prior to 1,969 and that are too small for current zoning to
11:56:18 aggregate those lots to meet current zoning provider development.
11:56:22 This is the procedure that addresses what I understood to be the main concern about large developments based on substandard lots, which why not focus on just this rather than
burdening owners of single lots staff response is that chapter 1812 Jcc: should apply to all lots the county must implement protocol to
11:56:41 ensure that permits are issued for lots that were legally created legal status of lots, both within and outside of historic plats needs to be verified.
11:56:49 Therefore limiting to review to lots capable of being aggregated, fails to accomplish in essential responsibility, to ensure that development is occurring unlikely created lots.
11:56:59 The chapters requirement that all lots go through a form of site evaluation either through site, development, review or reasonable economic economic use processes ensures that
all development of a site is conducted in a way that meets expected health welfare and safety outcomes limiting land use review to only those
11:57:16 lots capable of being aggregated, fails to address minimum land area requirements for septic environmental conditions in a manner that could over time generate similar degradation.
11:57:25 To larger scaled development
11:57:35 Hmm.
11:57:41 And can I ask a quick question on that? If okay, is there flexibility in in 1812?
11:57:49 Whereby, if someone had, you know, for lots that equated to, you know, say 4 and a quarter acres, and rural residential 5 zoning, is there?
11:58:04 Is there some ability to say that's awfully close to 5, to to kind of, you know, you use that kind of judgment if given.
11:58:14 All of the other factors on that site, that it might be appropriate to grants development. Potential.
11:58:19 There, we don't currently have that. But what I've seen other governments do.
11:58:27 For example, even the city of Port towns, and they have what they call, I think it de minimis provision that says that there is some latitude by a certain percentage for objective.
11:58:41 You know, to a permission of approval, and so we could look at that.
11:58:46 That would have to be adopted by a standard operating procedure.
11:58:52 okay, I might correct branches a little bit. There. We we don't have included to consider it a conforming lot, but it does align, with the exception protocol under 0 7 0 sub
4 where the requirement is to aggregate to the maximum extent.
11:59:10 Possible. So if somebody only owns one acre of land comprised of 6 lots, it's that they need to matt aggregate to the maximum extent practice, full.
11:59:23 So, if they only own one acre it's comprised of 4 or 6 lots, however many they can combine those lots, and then move forward through the process, through site development review.
11:58:50 So it's applied consistently. Okay.
11:59:50 Yeah, that's a yeah, I'm I'm curious.
11:59:55 Given, you know. So so in that situation of 6 lots comprise an acre, and that is still, you know not in in conformance with the zoning overlaying zoning what process which process,
then, would they go through would that be the economic you reasonable economic use process or i'm curious what's
12:00:29 so they would go from meeting the exception criteria.
12:00:34 So as a part of that exception criteria, there would be a luck consolidation process that went through by which they would take those 6 lots and create a single lot.
12:00:43 And then that single, lot would be reviewed under Site Development Review and reveal that they are capable of meeting minimum land area requirements for septic. Let's say they're
not.
12:00:55 It's not evident that one acre of land is going to meet minimum land area requirements for septic disposal.
12:01:03 Then they can go right down into reasonable economic use and actually design their systems and show that they can.
12:01:11 They can use alternate septic designs, or what have you?
12:01:13 But if they don't meet the state requirements or environmental health requirements for minimum land area, Okay, certain septic disposal, then they'll go to reasonable economic
use If they do, then they can move forward through the site development review process where dCD will identify any buildable areas that are
12:01:35 on site. If the result of that is that you know, there's lots of critical issues and build.
12:01:40 Ability needs to be verified through special or, for instance, if it's in a shoreline area that is concurrent with moderate to hide channel migration areas, channel migration
zone.
12:01:55 Excuse me, and the development is outright prohibited under the Shoreline master program.
12:02:02 Then the determination would be, It is a leave, a lot of record.
12:02:04 It's eligible, but there is no developability here, so your option is to sell or aggregate further, or sell with the intent to purchase more land.
12:02:13 With the intent of aggregating, to reach your your lot of area.
12:02:17 So it really depends on the site. At a certain point you can see can get complicated pretty quickly, but the initial check will be that minimum land area for septic disposal,
and if they can meet that and they can move forward through the site development review process and and submit their permanent applications for the
12:00:24 what's in the next step in your flow, chart, Brian
12:02:34 Brian, that does sound like Development Site Development Review. I mean the whole.
12:02:39 When you're describing reasonable economic use it's not, you know.
12:02:43 It's never explicit in the legal lot of records section that reasonable economic use might be a strawberry field, which is what was described to us yesterday.
12:02:50 So if I look at that reasonable economic use, you know.
12:02:33 lot
12:02:53 Oh 8 O and 1812. I'm looking at that like Oh, I can develop this into a house, but you're saying that's not what that means.
12:03:09 But it.
12:03:03 No, that's not what I'm saying. No reasonable economic use is specific to residential development.
12:03:11 Yeah. The reasonable use of a property would include the kind of classic samples growing strawberries, or beekeeping, or some kind of thing but the reasonable economic use and
Washington state refers specifically to residential. Development. So the the reason.
12:03:10 Oh, oh, really!
12:03:24 Why economic use process under oo is a process by which the applicant shows that the lot is developable with a specific design in mind.
12:03:35 So to be a little lot. It has to be developable to to, to to qualify for reasonable economic use exception.
12:03:43 Yep.
12:03:45 It has to be developing.
12:03:49 But it sounds like it might not even need to go through that process, and I miss understood that that if you combined all the parcels, I thought, it's still needed to reach
a threshold.
12:03:58 But I'm hearing that's not the case. That's helpful. Thank you.
12:04:03 That's correct interpretation. Next question, the next question, the proposed ordinance refers to underlying zoning densities as a consideration of whether a lot qualifies as
a legal lot of record proposed new language says that any contiguous group parcels of land in a
12:04:28 Plot created prior to August the eleventh, 1,969.
12:04:33 That is equivalent in size or larger to the density of the zone in which it is located, and in single ownership, as of the effect of data.
12:04:44 This ordinance can only be developed as single family residences under current zoning and subdivision requirements.
12:04:54 End of quote if substandard lots are grandfathered.
12:04:58 Grandfather Does that mean that they are not eligible for development?
12:05:03 If they don't. Okay, zoning
12:05:10 This is the answer to that question. In effect, the ordinance says that if at the effective date of this ordinance you are in a 5 acre zoning category, and you own a contiguous
group of parcels that equal 5 acres your development, pencil, your development potential is one
12:05:32 lot the term grandfather generally refers to legal non conforming uses and structures. The legal.
12:05:42 A lot of record ordinance requires multiple vacant locks in common ownership to be developed at current zoning whenever possible.
12:05:52 There's a different legal lot of record determination process in the proposed ordinance for a single lot owned separately, and that is not multiple lots in common ownership.
12:06:06 And I'm Could you go in so for a single zone?
12:06:09 I I own just one, you know, 2 and a half acre parcel.
12:06:12 That's not contiguous. Maybe it hasn't been the property adjacent hasn't been developed, but 2 properties down has been developed right?
12:06:20 So What is, Can I Can kind of be a legal, a lot of records.
12:06:25 So we would look at that 2 and a half acre lot, see if there are any of the exceptions that apply.
12:06:32 So we would do the exceptions first, and then after we determine if one, it does meet one of the exceptions that we've identified, then you pass, go, and you can go ahead but
if it doesn't then we move, into the reasonable use are using reasonable.
12:06:53 Economic use. R: E: You variance procedures to look to see.
12:06:59 can it be? Can it support a house? So I just just I'm I'm feeling stupid about this, but so.
12:07:06 I got my 2 and a half acre parcel that my family left me.
12:07:10 I go through the legal lot of record application, they determine.
12:07:13 Yes, it's you know. It doesn't conform with the current zoning, but it is a legal lot of record.
12:07:20 Then, if I can demonstrate that there is room 1515,000 square feet for my drain field, there's room for all that, There's not critical areas.
12:07:29 Then can I build a house on that nonconforming lot?
12:07:36 yes, and the the short answer is, Yes, okay. And And one of the things that we've been trying to do with this legislation is making sure that that type of predictability of
process is one of the deliverables.
12:07:54 I think I think the only thing that I would add is for that kind of situation, and maybe if I'm mistaken, environment, someone from environmental health and step in. But, generally.
12:08:04 Speaking plots that are 2 acres or larger are going to by default, meet the minimum land area for septic under State provisions.
12:08:14 There are some situations where a very bad site, condition, or soil type might push that up that would still review soil types prior to giving it.
12:07:49 And I just wanted to see Brian. Do you want to add anything
12:08:23 But but in that case, and the 2 acre, 2 and a half acre lot sizes is automatically going to move to the exception standard
12:08:53 or during depending on critical areas, mapping there's a land use review.
12:08:58 Yeah, So it's it's similar. But we're reorganizing.
12:09:03 Those reviews come first, rather than as applications come in.
12:09:15 Thank you.
12:09:25 Okay, So I'm gonna move on to the next question.
12:09:28 One further note about the 2 acres that Brian brought up again, not speaking for the environmental health staff.
12:09:37 But my understanding is that 2 acres is a common cut off between the way you look at a parcel, as Brian mentioned.
12:09:44 There may be situations in which over 2 weeks creates issues, but really it's under 2 acres where a closer look has to occur where soils are evaluated, you start to apply stricter.
12:09:58 Look at the minimum land area requirements, and it's one factor is the square footage available.
12:10:03 But there are other factors, or other systems other ways to handle septic capability that go beyond just a prescriptive number for square footage.
12:10:11 So your example of 2.5 acres. You got something going for you there, and in other words, that you're over the 2 acre threshold.
12:10:18 Okay? The question, why is single ownership required? What if 3 children co-own a lot?
12:10:26 The answer. Single ownership first, the continuous, contiguous, and lots not.
12:10:32 Who owns the lots it applies when one person was one group of people, or entity, or group of entities, owns a number of lots that in total equal the zoning density.
12:10:42 So 3 children could own a group of lives together. Those lots total up to the density in the current zoning. That group of lots would have to be developed as one lot that meets
current zoning
12:11:00 And Yep. Any follow up questions to that one that makes sense question opposed Jcc.
12:11:10 Section deals with testamentary provisions, or the laws of descent.
12:11:16 Why are inherited lots treated as substandard, lots of record.
12:11:22 And where is definition of substandard lots in Jcc. 1812, O.
12:11:29 7 out. Does this make those these lots unbuildable because they are inherited lots created by testamentary provision, are legally created?
12:11:42 But that does not mean they are necessarily buildable. We site specifically Dijkstra versus Gadget County, which is in the Washington pellet 6, 7,985 This State's lots created
by testamentary provisions are only Substandard lots
12:12:08 if they don't need the current zoning density Substandard locks are defined in the L definitions, And that's the definitions section or which appears in this ordinance.
12:12:20 The fact that they were created by testamentary provision does not make them unbuildable.
12:12:28 Emphasis added: They need to go through the legal lot of record determination process.
12:12:34 And if Nixon, reasonable economic use, exception.
12:12:43 I I think this is getting at the the issue that's been that has come up around.
12:12:48 If property has been conveyed also, and that was new to me, what what does that?
12:12:57 What is conveyance? Trigger, in terms of the the implementation of this ordinance
12:13:08 Break that into 2 parts. So for the first part, so that if I were to die and leave a portion of my 5 acres to one child, 2 and a half and 2 and a half, to another, neither one
of my children would individually be able to build it'd be because if assuming
12:13:27 it's in the one dwelling unit per 5 acre zoning district, but they could submit the app application together, combining the lots to build a single family home and and I want
to nest.
12:13:41 I want to see specifically point out that we do allow accessory dwelling units.
12:13:48 and so in that instance, both of my children are, would be able to have a home.
12:13:52 But the parcel would still be linked.
12:14:00 the question about conveyance states specifically that I can convey those 2 and a half acres to each of my 2 children.
12:14:09 So one child will get 2 and a half acres, and the other child will get 2 and a half acres.
12:14:15 But individually they will not be able to build. So the legal, the lot of record states that one it's a conventional meaning that I that my child could sell that 2 and a half
acres.
12:14:32 they wouldn't be able to develop a permit, or that person that purchased it wouldn't be able to get a permit for construction without the other 2 and a half But that lot of
record status does mean that it can be sold Why, wouldn't it still qualify if some other innocent purchaser
12:14:51 purchased one of the 2.5 acre parcels.
12:14:54 Why couldn't they go through the same process that we just talked about So if it's basically divided at that point, So you have 2 and a half acres So after this ordinance they
did a boundary line, adjustment and split it up, oh, it's it's actually irrespective
12:15:12 of the ordinance. So I'm saying that the current laws of dissent specifically noted in the chapter Dijkstra versus Scadja County specifically state that if I die and I divided
in equal parts, and it's in a 5 Acre zoning that neither one of
12:15:28 my children could build with absent the other. So that's current law.
12:15:32 And so, so that was not going to be effective. But if somebody owns a 2 and a half acre lot that was created 50 years ago, they can build
12:15:48 Oh, therein is the question. All of the details would apply.
12:15:51 We would look at that to see. Was it created out of this laws of dissent?
12:15:59 and then if it occurred after that, and then the assumption is that it was not created to be built upon, it could not be built upon.
12:16:12 If it's pre day or actually post dates, are, you know, the Growth Management Act?
12:16:20 I think, Greg, the differences you can convey interest in property.
12:16:24 That isn't necessarily a parcel, Right? And I think that's what right getting on the parcel. But you're granted a part of a person, right?
12:16:34 And one of the areas that could be really relevant is tidelands.
12:16:37 So you want to be able to harvest the oysters.
12:16:41 Do you go? Gooey, duck, farming. And so so it's not merely you may never be able to develop if it's all within you.
12:16:47 Know 50 feet of the shoreline, but you're dividing it up so your children have nourishment, or you know they can always harvest shellfish.
12:16:58 So that's an example where that really, if I had divided it up and done a boundary line and made 2 parcels of 2 point, 5 acres in 1980.
12:17:07 Then I could leave one partial to one kid and one parcel to the other, and the descendants through the this would not apply, and in that zoom that assumes that in 1,980 we didn't
have minimum zoning of 2 and a half acres so it still has
12:17:19 to conform with the zoning at the time, and so, or as, maybe later, after change, yeah, I think when you subdivide land and it's not buildable.
12:17:30 Frequently I think they refer to those as tax parcels.
12:17:37 right.
12:17:37 Yes, Going back to the original question, What is convey me This I would actually defer either to Brian or to Philip.
12:17:46 Here, Barbara, Is the one who put, probably knows the most about that case that Grant cited and unfortunately she's not here at the moment, but she's working on another case
right That we're doing but to me I think convey is simply the ability to by sell or give away in this case, so
12:17:59 it's not just about willing a parcel to somebody else.
12:18:03 It's about conveying. So a lot of record came be conveyed.
12:18:06 If you had, hey? Very small lot, and it was again next to one of our rivers.
12:18:12 just couldn't accommodate a well and a septic system and a house just in.
12:18:18 Impossible to do that. That's still a lot that you can convey.
12:18:20 You can buy and sell that like you could recreate on that like you grow strawberries harvest, shellfish, or whatever.
12:18:25 But so I think it's more broadly The The term con day is more broadly represented.
12:18:31 Lot of legal record, though not a legal letter record, But a lot of record has.
12:18:36 Yes, a lot of record, and there might be other bundle.
12:18:40 Other other other sticks in the bundle of rights that have value.
12:18:46 so I would say, back to the quick, sorry back to the question of when when properties divided Testament, or testamentarily, those lots can be created, and they can be conveyed,
So you've you've divided your property outside of the subdivision act there's
12:19:01 a specific exemption in the Subdivision Act. For that.
12:19:03 Again. I would, Barbara as our expert on that. But maybe Philip is up to speed on exactly that clause.
12:19:08 But I would say that I have a little bit, I mean a different understanding of what some of the discussion has been about what those lots are, I would say it just simply that
those lots are lawfully created through the subdivision act when they're made by will and testament but there's no guarantee
12:19:24 of build, build, ability. That's what. Why, this process is set up to actually answer that question.
12:19:30 But it's not very much different than today, like today.
12:19:32 That's this exists just the same. Someone would come in and say, Can I build on this lot?
12:19:37 And the same questions would be asked just in a different order.
12:19:39 And this is a more formalized process to answer those questions, and there is a provision in there that deals with testamentary laws Philip is unmuted.
12:19:46 He may have something he wants to add
12:19:48 I can't. I can't say it any better than Josh just did
12:19:52 Wow! Hi! Praise not a very large degree I'll start billing it.
12:19:57 Yeah.
12:19:59 559. Okay, thanks, fellow.
12:20:10 Okay, okay, Then the next question.
12:20:14 Where does it clearly state that lots created legally prior to 1,969 will be given a building permits if they conform to health standards, such as septic and setbacks as part
of the legal lot of record determination a legally created yet substandard law will be evaluated to see if it
12:20:32 qualifies for one of the exceptions listed in 1812, o, 7, o, sub.
12:20:36 4, if it does not qualify for one of those exceptions, or does not meet minimum land area requirements for septic as determined by the Department of public health.
12:20:45 The lot owner may request consideration under the reasonable economic use exception process outlined in the proposed chase to 1812 8 0
12:20:57 So, in other words, I think the question, or is stating, are we still going to be able to build on these lots that are pre 1969 and The policy?
12:21:06 Basically says it's quite possible you have to take a look at it and see whether it can accommodate a septic system.
12:22:57 period will be offered and comments considered as part of the proposal, so the reasonable economic use provisions are intended to offer applicants and opportunity to show that
their lots can be safely can safely support a residence without creating health welfare or and safety issues the quick for adjacent
12:23:23 residential development are included to allow higher density, development of substandard lots to continue where it is all right, where it already exists, and prevent high density,
development of substandard lots where domino effect could take place this allows infill of vagrant lots to occur existing denser
12:23:49 communities out promoting conversion, a rural labs to high densities
12:24:05 That wasn't completely clear in the list. The A. Through Jaylis to me so I don't know if there's a way to reword that item, and said E.
12:24:20 The adjacent
12:24:24 Looking at. That's not called out in this. Oh, criteria! H.
12:24:29 Seems to provide neighbors of veto right
12:24:36 You re criteria H. Brent Brents, looking it up I'll have to look in.
12:24:40 I I suspect that not sure how that was worded.
12:24:46 But I remember having a thought when I read it like, Oh, is that
12:24:56 you got it up there on the screen. Posed activity on the lot will not adversely affect adjacent or nearby property owners, or interfere with their enjoyment of their property.
12:25:05 So it's not a veto It's it's certainly not a veto, and it is a a reasonable economic use process.
12:25:11 We have proposed as a type, 2 process, which means there'd be notification.
12:25:16 There are other factors, such as well placement that are on one property that affect a neighboring property, and things of that nature.
12:25:34 yeah, essentially that language is borrowed from existing variance criteria.
12:25:41 That's in. In the critical areas. Ordinance through the reasonable economic use process is offered there as well as other minor various processes whereby DCD staff are you know,
expected for these higher level type projects to consider potential impacts to you know use of neighboring properties generally speaking, we we
12:26:07 might limit considerations from A. The proposed residential use through 1812 reasonable economic use process to in situations like assessing whether small shared water facilities
will be taxed by the proposed development right, If somebody has a two-person well and the proposed expansion of the
12:26:35 residents is going to put strain on that water supply, or something like that.
12:26:39 But it's it's not it. General veto process at all.
12:25:25 Brian, can I ask you to go into a little bit about what that criteria means in in the context of the other criteria
12:26:45 It's a opportunity for neighboring property owners to comment on the proposed project, which in this case will be a the devil of a residence and address any potential issues.
12:26:59 Generally speaking, residential uses and residential zones are, gonna be largely configured, except for exceptional circumstances.
12:27:08 So. I hope that gives you picture of a situation where a residential use might interfere with somebody else's enjoyment of their property or expectation.
12:27:23 So the veto right is just a one interpretation of that language.
12:27:19 You can continue residing on their property, or something like that.
12:27:29 One person's interpreted. Okay.
12:27:39 Oh, okay, great. Thank you.
12:27:50 Well, And can I say, too, in that case the zoning would be, or the uses land uses would be taken into consideration for that area.
12:27:59 So yeah, the the uses are very much determined by.
12:28:03 But what is allowed in our in our code, and then others like right to farm You know you couldn't, and and neighbor couldn't veto, because there might, be, you know, chickens
and cows like there, there, are underlying rights and uses to that regardless that would be taken into consideration
12:28:22 as well correct. I I realize it's a residence, but you know even within.
12:28:31 well and does this only apply to residential? Actually?
12:28:33 I mean, if if they were cutting. You know, cottage industry could be allowed him certain land use types.
12:28:42 Right, And I want to point out that that reasonable economic use really, we're looking at the at a single family home, right And so those other uses are still in the table that
are permissible of of uses.
12:28:58 But this is really focused specifically on that on that construction of a single family home, and the impacts of that
12:29:11 As Brian said, that phrase is borrowed from our other reasonable economic use.
12:29:18 Criteria in the critical areas, Ordinance. Pretty typical for our variance, valuation.
12:29:24 And so we've in. The proposal, provided an avenue for those artist lots to go through a process.
12:29:32 If someone wants to go through the process and if someone doesn't like the result of that process can appeal that decision to a hearing examiner.
12:29:46 before it is both. The site and the proposed development being evaluated.
12:29:53 In that case, Thank you.
12:29:58 Okay, Jcc: 1812, 8 0. Sub 2. Regarding the evaluation of an entire plat at once seems to provide a potential loophole from large developments.
12:30:09 Is that what was intended? The intent of the Platwide assessment is not to create an avenue for large developments, but to reduce cost of permitting processes for Landowners
community organizations that want to have a determination processed for multiple lots at once rather than require a sequence of type
12:30:27 2 permit applications for multiple lots under common or separate ownership.
12:30:31 The flatwide assessment allows an applicant to submit one fee rather than paying multiple fees for a piecemeal review.
12:30:39 The same review. Standards are applied in both the single law and flat, Wide assessments I would supplement here by saying that we have a subdivision process for the creation
of new plots and that subdivision process contains all of our health safety and welfare considerations which come from policies in
12:31:03 our compound down through our development regulations. One of the main issues with some of the historic plats is that the potential to incorporate those health, safety and welfare
considerations for the entirety of the platte become muddled a bit based on law so we can use other law like the state
12:31:24 Environmental Policy act, to attempt to incorporate those kinds of considerations into a whole holistic review of such a proposal.
12:31:33 Oh, now, through this proposal, we would have a more formalized process to do that.
12:31:38 Actually say, Okay, this is the process to go through that. And all of these criteria apply
12:31:53 Question, the innocent purchaser exception is addressed and proposed.
12:31:59 Jccc. Section 18.12 point 100. The ordinance should include reference to specific dates like this section from Clark County's Code quote: the Innocent purchaser exception requires
the subject parcel to meet minimum zoning requirements to currently in effect, or in effect, at the time.
12:32:21 the parcel was created, the current owner must have purchased the property in good faith, and did not have knowledge that the property was divided from a larger parcel.
12:32:36 After The following dates: Bullet one August 20, first 1,969, in the case of subdivisions bullet 2 after July the first 1,976 in the case of short plaque yes, pull it 3 after
April, nineteenth, 19,
12:32:52 93 the case of segregated any segregated, any segregation resulting in parcels of 5 acres or larger.
12:33:03 Answer. These dates are based on enactments in Clark County, and therefore
12:33:17 and there are inapplicable to Jefferson County staff, recommends keeping the provisions in Jccc.
12:33:24 1,800 provision, as proposed as a tracks.
12:33:29 The language of the subdivision statute. See, we're referencing Revised Code of Washington.
12:33:35 58 point, 17 point, 300. See also Nagel versus no Homeish county for discussion of what the terminology in the statue, as we reflected in our code means also the Clark County
language.
12:33:54 Does not track The subdivision. Statute language. Would be subject to challenge on that basis, And I just wanted to highlight that we've recognized that we do have this concern
with some of our sections of our code the state.
12:34:09 Law has changed and we need to change our code to your changes in state law.
12:34:14 And this is a case in point that other counties have the same issue
12:34:21 Hmm.
12:34:26 We're we're gonna finish staff presentation, and then we'll take. We'll have public testimony
12:34:36 Next question, the definition of development is amended, as amendment has been expanded to include activities not previously captured, including the removal of vegetation and
forest practice activities related to conversion from forestry den Forestry this seems to impact the ability to make even recreational use of an
12:34:55 individual's property, without first obtaining county permission. Answer.
12:34:59 The new ordinance only applies to quote development that require as a permit from the county.
12:35:04 For example, the map, vast majority of forest practices permits do not involve a county permit the intent of the legal lot of record, determination and associated site development
review processes is to ask the right question, about a lot site, in the right order These questions should be asked and answered prior to land
12:35:21 disturbing activity, clearing and grading, etc. Converting force and land to a non-forster use requires a class for general for practices, Application issued by the State Department
of natural resources in conjunction the stormwater management permit issued by the county after review of The of the
12:35:37 proposal under the State Environmental Policy Act, with the county as lead agency.
12:35:42 The process is created through this ordinance are appropriately positioned prior to those activities
12:35:50 And again, the recreational use of an individual properties is not directly associated with this ordinance. And so. Except for that, a lot of record, as we mentioned before,
that would be an example of the type of use that someone might do on a lot of record that isn't a legal lot of records
12:36:08 Any questions there? Nope: Okay. Moving on New Jccc: 1812, point.
12:36:15 Oh, one O, sub section, 2, and some section 4 require all properties to go through a legal lot of record determination.
12:36:23 Prior to submission of any development application for any lot in the county.
12:36:28 Not just those platted prior to 1,969.
12:36:31 This requirement, adds one more to jump through prior to developing one's land, adding to what is already a fairly arduous, arduous, and costly process review, is estimated
by DCD.
12:36:47 To take only 1Â h; but I assume that this can still add weeks to the process, and significantly longer.
12:36:53 If a survey is requested by DCD. Per Jc.
12:36:59 Section 18.12, and I do not see the commensurate benefit for lots platted after 1,969; also, when coupled with the definition of development this, process would apply to lots
that are already built on for which an owner, wants to do construction reconstruction
12:37:19 Conversion. Structural alteration, relocation, or enlargement of an existing structure, even if it was planted prior to 1,969.
12:37:27 If a lot has already been built upon, the legal lot of record question should be considered settled. It is these sorts of reach back provisions that hamstring people's abilities
to modernize and keep soon keep habitable their homes
12:37:46 The intent of the legal lot of record. This is the answer.
12:37:51 the intent of the legal lot of record determination and associated Site Development Review processes is to ask the right questions about a lot or site in the right order.
12:38:05 Land use. Review of development, so occurs now. But typically after someone has hired a septic designer, installer, and our home designer builder to prepare site construction
plans, applicants have experienced delays, in the permit review process brian do you want to scroll down a little
12:38:31 Yeah, Greg: screen, great screen when constraints are identified later in the process, these can can include wetlands and other environmentally critical areas.
12:38:45 The intent of this ordinance is to move land, Use review to the beginning.
12:38:50 The procedures will be designed to take as little time as possible.
12:38:56 Many legal lot of record determinations will be simple, and will not take much time.
12:39:03 For example, within a recorded platform, the review will be very simple.
12:39:08 Once the questions, considering the lot side have been answered, the development permit process will be faster because they're typically won't be lingering.
12:39:18 Land use questions that effectively staff that that that effectively stall septic and building, permit.
12:39:32 Review bye, clarify that a little bit. I think the original question is really talking about sites that had already had residential development on them, and those are, if they
already have residential development and they've been through the permit process you know that that's been permitted and everything
12:39:50 that's pretty much a de facto. Leave a lot of residents.
12:39:53 Well, unfortunately, we have a lot of construction that has been done without permits, and in those cases we would have that to do that process right of determining whether
or not they can build, and for those in the community, and we did indicate earlier that we'll bring it to the
12:40:15 boards, Consideration, if we should consider amnesty, or or have a workshop on.
12:40:21 That. Thank you. And just for the list of things that are in the question, the different types of development.
12:40:28 these are all different, so I guess I would say that to just categorize it simply, if you have legally permitted construction on the property, would meet one of the exceptions
first of all and so it'd be just fast tracked right to the site, development review and then secondly, it's, those
12:40:46 aspects of construction which would alter the footprint or involve land disturbing activity that would trigger a site, development, view requirement, If you're just doing reconstruction,
conversion, structural alteration those things would wouldn't trigger based on the way the coordinates is written
12:41:05 but relocation or enlargement would trigger It's like Development Review, and I would also point out that we do have instances, for example, in our flood damage prevention ordinance
where you even a rehab could result in of the required for a permit and so
12:41:25 we do have some exceptions, but it's not found housed in this chapter.
12:41:33 Okay, weird. Getting close to the end of these questions. Thank you.
12:41:38 Guys appreciate glamours. Our fixed features that were able to be recognized during implementation of the Growth Management Act, but cannot be newly created in today's rural
areas The proposed possibility of up zoning in Today's rural lands is limited by Gma if amendments, to gma or
12:41:55 New case law alters those possibilities. County policy and practice can adjust oops. Maybe in the answer, I am terribly sorry Yeah, skipping to the answer. You know, you Can
oops you have it up your tree so if you want to consolidate.
12:42:07 The question, little as you ask. Well, go back to the question.
12:42:10 I'm sorry about that. O 5 provides that to be considered a legal lot of record and potentially developable.
12:42:15 A lot must be a equivalent in size to the density of the zoning district, which is located, unless it meets one of the exceptions, and once a determination is made that a lot
is not a legal lot of record that determination must be recorded, shall be considered.
12:42:29 A final determination. But what if zoning later changed to allow for greater density, such as through the creation of additional Laminar's limited areas of more intensive rural
development by amendment of our comprehensive plan, as our county so sorely needs, this possibility should
12:42:42 be expressly recognized that the determination that a lot is not a legal lot of record should not be binding in view, that of that or other change.
12:42:50 Circumstances. Same comment applies to oh, 7, O sub One answer Lammets are fixed features They were able to be recognized during implementation of Gma dates back to July.
12:43:01 The first 1990 technically, but cannot be newly created in today's rural areas.
12:43:05 These these proposed possibility of up zoning in today's Rolands is limited by Gma amendments to J.
12:43:11 May or new Kesla articles alters those possibilities.
12:43:15 County policy and practice can adjust accordingly, or up zoning as possible with an existing lambered boundaries, and not and within the Uga.
12:43:23 Exception applies to all lots of records, so that legal lots of record status may be granted.
12:43:28 So we did, save before, that the legal lot of record determination is a one-time, process and that was intended so that someone wouldn't have to repeat that process wasn't necessarily
intended to be a one i'll be all end all of that particular termination.
12:43:43 I guess I would defer to Philip if he knows this notices the spot in the ordinance where we may be able to inject some kind of clarification there.
12:43:51 But I guess I would say that someone could repeat the legal lot of detection process if someone wanted to There's nothing to say.
12:44:00 You can't do that. So, in other words, yes, you would be.
12:44:03 We would be going through the process once, and if the result wasn't favorable there would be a notice.
12:44:08 The title. But if things changed, the Gma were amended, and the county reacted accordingly.
12:44:14 Then that that there'd be nothing to stop in my mind to a revisitation of that decision, and file another notice that lifts that notice or basically says, that now this lot
is granted legal a lot of record, status it seems like it could happen I mean they there was a bill that passed last year.
12:44:33 last session to change. I think they were specifics about commercial development within Lambert's, but I mean, could see on the horizon some changes to residential development.
12:44:43 Within Lambert, so. But if there's the ability to once that new law is passed, go through the legal, a lot of right based on that new law, then that makes sense to me.
12:44:59 But isn't it even more like that Zoning could change, you know, and we're talking, you know, 100 year planning horizon here like zoning could change in parts of the county,
So I I thought this was a valid point, that Perhaps even the notice to title should be or that
12:45:15 recorded I assume that's not as the title should be something like you know, that clearly states that as of this, State this is, you know, is not deemed to be a legal, lot of
record, but that's you know zoning I I don't know some language that that
12:45:31 acknowledges that that might change, and that that can be researched accordingly.
12:45:35 Right? Yes, absolutely. In fact, we haven't established, of course, what that notice the title will say, but we can work with legal counsel to make sure that it's phrase that.
12:45:42 With that that might be. That the cleanest, simplest way of addressing that issue back to the Lambert issue. For just a moment, I know Brent had something to say here.
12:45:50 But I believe that issue is around the logical outer boundaries of those Lamwards, and that is something that the Gma hasn't re addressed if you will, although there is some
momentum it's possible I'm in that case, so i'm thinking more of a parcel that would
12:46:02 be then included in a Lamar that isn't included today.
12:46:07 Usually Lamboards are done for other reasons besides residential development, though mostly focused on commercial development and other things industrial development.
12:46:13 But there could be other sort of multifamily or higher density, residential purposes for expanding alignment.
12:46:21 So it's always a possibility. Again, I would just say that in the event that that happens that we we can move with that I don't think it wasn't intended to say that the decision
is a bl end all decision in the negative It was meant more to be to tell people that wouldn't have to do it
12:46:35 again. Such a one time deal in the chimney and labyrinth does have some residential within it. Not a huge amount, but but within it would automatically Yeah, the change was
allowing a departure from 1,990 commercial conformity.
12:46:58 Question Jccc. 1812 O. 7 O. Subsection.
12:47:04 4 list, certain exceptions that provide the ability to develop substandard lots.
12:47:10 One of these is provided by subsection. H. We, which provides that a substandard lot that is not in a hundred-year floods and meets special meets drinking water, and septic
requirements, may be developed if the dCD.
12:47:26 Determines that the lot of that the development of the lot is necessary for emergency purposes, and the benefits outweigh the detriment To whom question mark.
12:47:38 We are in a portracted, housing emergency, and this exception ought to apply to any every substandard lot that is not in a special flood zone, and can meet board and septic
requirements is that what was intended and so Why, go through this whole process answer a primary purpose of the
12:48:03 legal lot of record ordinance is to ensure that there is no violation of the State subdivision code, and that code is you can find in Rcw.
12:48:14 58.17 point 2, one. Oh, the process in the new ordinance is intended to create a system by which standard substandard lots can be can develop safely.
12:48:32 I'm and without impacting, environmental, natural and water resources.
12:48:39 The intent of this ordinance is to allow development when site conditions demonstrate the that it can be safely built, and in certain cases, when a property owner demonstrates
that development of the lot is required, to respond, to or avoid emergency situations, for example, a reader development proposal that may, otherwise
12:49:03 be prohibited, in a special flood hazard area could move forward if the proposal was to bridge the development, to bring the development into compliance with fema regulations.
12:49:16 This would benefit the property owner and protect neighboring uses from potential damage in the event of a special flood hazard event
12:49:33 Okay, this is the last question. Jccc. 1844, 50 requires submission of a Site Development Review.
12:49:40 Permit application prior to submission of any development, permit application.
12:49:45 This appears to apply wall lots, and adds yet another hoop through which it to which to jump through.
12:49:49 I realized that such a review was already part of the permit review process, but by defining it as a separate step, the process will be more complicated and lengthy.
12:49:58 For for many the written answer is actually the same as an answer already provided, so I won't reread that.
12:50:04 But I will answer in different words, which would be back to the theme of asking the right questions at the right time.
12:50:10 So we have a land use review process right now. It's triggered by either a septic permit application coming over to DCD.
12:50:17 Routed by environmental health during the septic review process, after which a designer has already been contracted and soils are probably already been dug, or the building
perfect application.
12:50:27 When a designer's been contracted, and construction might have already been lined up, and the land use review occurs.
12:50:36 it's a 3Â h charge is the basic charge, But there might be additional charges if a site review is required by a planner or if a special report needs to be prepared, and then
reviewed, and that would be something for example like a wetland, assessment, and delineation and so again
12:50:50 it's the same questions, just a different process. If this ordinance passes as proposed, and we have a site development Review, prerequisite to a development permit, such as
a septic permit or a building permit, application then our processes will be simply be adjusted and
12:51:06 we'll concentrate on the initial land use review prior to those development, permit applications being submitted, and we'll do our very best to make sure that that process occurs
as swiftly as possible.
12:51:20 It will depend, of course, on the site specifics, complicated parcels today are going to be just as complicated.
12:51:25 Then, but we'll be asking the right questions at the right time, and for those parcels that aren't complicated, we're hoping to be able to move those parcels through the application
process quicker and with less expense than currently in our system
12:51:45 Thank you for that, gentlemen. Yeah, we really appreciate taking the time, and I'm sure folks who are flying along with us today do as well.
12:51:58 so? Are there any other points of discussion that we want to consider before we take testimony?
12:52:06 I think folks have been patient and just. The The planning Commission recommendations.
12:52:13 I you know at some point we should probably consider those, but we could do that in deliberation.
12:52:17 After yesimony. I suppose I'll listen. The public might wish to comment on some of the planning commission recommendations, too.
12:52:27 They were, they were, in fact, for example, opportunity to look at those so I'd argue that we should open.
12:52:34 Okay, okay, Okay, So email language, I am going to open testimony in this hearing regarding lot of record, an ordinance determining the legal status of Lots site development
review boundary line adjustment amending chapter 18 dot 10 and 18.35 in the Jefferson county code adopting a new
12:53:00 chapter, 18, Point 12, adopting a new article, 7 in chapter 18 dot 4 0, and Miscellaneous.
12:53:09 Other amendments to Chapter 18 Dot, 4 0 Jefferson County Code.
12:53:13 So, if you have joined us this afternoon online, you can use the raise hand button on the bottom of your zoom screen to make testimony, and there are a couple of folks with
us in the room.
12:53:27 I'm assuming you're you've stuck it out because you're interested in having some points heard.
12:53:31 So we would love to start with the folks in the room, and then we will take testimony from People have joined us online, so
12:53:45 Okay, if you had your hand previously raised when we were having discussion and briefing, you'll need to re-raise your hand so we can bring you over.
12:53:55 There were a couple of folks to raise their hand, and we took them down and so they'll need to raise your hand again so that we can call on you and are you interested in making
a comment or ask questions. Come go ahead and come up to the microphone
12:54:12 I mean, I live in Brennan. My main question is
12:54:19 October fourth is the day that you guys are wanting to enact this and make it become effective.
12:54:26 Okay, October. For Indians. The current will require.
12:54:32 So I have. And I. With The the current Moratorium is I'm sorry that I'm new to the whole thing, but the the current moratorium halts all development in all of Jefferson County
or what is the current moratorium do
12:54:49 we had before the Moratorium was adopted, we went to the community, and we included a about 9 exceptions that were responsive to what we heard from the community to enable a
single family homeowners or people, who own lots in the county that are have yet to develop them.
12:55:11 To give them that opportunity to develop them During of the moratorium.
12:55:17 So I can go through the exceptions that we're already in place, and we had quite a few that really were trying to be responsive to the need for housing in our community.
12:55:30 Okay, no that's not necessary. What I just need to know how to.
12:55:33 I can look at that later. So it's online somewhere.
12:55:35 I can find the wording of them. Oratorium. Okay, So my main request I have like 10 questions, but I don't want to take up too much time.
12:55:43 I think my main one, that I would like to ask is, or I would like to request, based on the fact that I don't think enough people have been reached and have been informed about
This and it's It's gonna affect a lot of people so i'm requesting kind of formally requesting that
12:56:03 we would move, at least, move the date of the taking effect of this new ordinance to 60 more days, so that there is time to try to reach out to more of the communities along
the hood canal a lot, of people who own very small lots that were established long ago and would need
12:56:27 to know how this is gonna affect, whether they maybe they're just gonna want to sell their property, or whether they ever think it's something they can hand down to their children
for putting a house on etc.
12:56:40 It's just a lot of people that are affected that I don't based on the numbers that you guys said of people who have been reached.
12:56:45 I think that more work needs to be done there first. Before this ordinance is passed.
12:56:50 Can you state your name, and where you reside, just because it's formal testimony?
12:56:55 Yes, Alice and Lewis Brennan. Thank you.
12:57:01 We'll take testimony, and then we'll respond So I see there.
12:57:05 Are you interested in making a comment today, sir? No? Okay. So there are a couple of folks who've raised their hand in the zoom room.
12:57:13 So let's bring them over, and just letting folks know it looks like we have about 35 people with us.
12:57:20 Some of them are staff, but not many. If you're in the zoom room, you need to use the raise hand button at the bottom of your zoom screen and we'll bring you over for public
comment Cosma
12:57:32 Okay, So we'll bring you over as you raise your hand and then we'll call on you in the order that you raised your hand, and the first the first person I saw with their hand,
up was Tom tears so Tom you'll have 3Â min for public comment.
12:57:49 Okay, thank you. Commissioners. So
12:57:53 Thank you. Commissioners for the record, Tom. Tears for President Jefferson County.
12:57:59 I. The number of comments, the early on in the presentation.
12:58:06 It was stated by the GCD. Staff that all this information was quote made available to the public.
12:58:12 Well, not really. If you look at the agenda request, for example, there's a link there that says yes, all the all the documents are available on laserfish.
12:58:21 And it provides a link to the root folder of laserfish. It doesn't give any guidance whatsoever as to where to find the information and anybody who's not familiar with laser
fish good luck finding it I hunted for a long time and I still couldn't find
12:57:51 Okay, testimony. Sorry
12:58:34 it things like in addition to that, the last minute addition to the to the agenda item which linked to this Faq document, it was just red.
12:58:45 At length, that wasn't posted until this morning, not exactly helpful to to to the public process.
12:58:54 So you know, I appreciate the fact that the Faq.
12:58:58 Is prepared, useful. But Jeeze, that's you know, the the lack of timeliness of the information is is very discouraging.
12:59:09 When it comes to trying to pretend that there's really a public process going on here.
12:59:14 One of the things that was mentioned during the presentation was this goal of quote minimization, a reference to Well, if you can build a castle versus build a small house we
want you to build a small house, excuse me dCD doesn't have the right to tell me what size house to
12:59:30 build as long, as it's legally conforming I'm gonna build that biggest house I wanna build one of the smallest house as long as it's legal.
12:59:38 So you know that that just has no place whatsoever in in county ordinances, trying to discourage people.
12:59:45 We're trying to convince people that but maybe they're building a house that's too large.
12:59:49 That that's just completely off base. I'm sorry this ordinance would create basically a cloud on the title of every one of the 30,000 and parcels in the county this process
of having to go through this review business before any kind of development or or addition for example if you wanted to add
13:00:10 an a tou, or a garage, or whatever, and you have to go through this every single time at least, to the extent that the first time, yes, right?
13:00:20 You're gonna notice the title, what somebody's got a review for?
13:00:23 The next permit. Oh, is there a notice? To title?
13:00:28 In other words, it's more time, more effort, and you know DCD.
13:00:32 Is already understaffed. So they keep saying, This is, gonna add a workload to DCD: that is gonna be just unsupportable.
13:00:40 just don't see how it's going to be possible to do it. Think the process as it's currently outlined, currently described, and envisioned is just not workable.
13:00:49 It's not practicable. And so I think I think there this the moratorium should be extended.
13:00:56 I think more of you. Go needs to go into this whole process so that it actually works from a practical standpoint, And that's about it.
12:59:18 Okay.
13:01:07 Thanks for your comments. We appreciate hearing. Okay, So I think the next person I saw come over was Jim Jim.
13:01:18 You're gonna need to unmute and state your name and place a residence
13:01:22 got it. My name is Jim Fox. I live here in Port Townsend, and I wanted to share my thoughts on the notorium and the proposed ordinance.
13:01:31 I've been personally involved with the developer of the proposed development on Cape George for a few years now, and I was genuinely excited.
13:01:38 To be part of something that was going to actually make a difference for scores of families, and what I kind of would expect.
13:01:43 It was a tipper ticker tape parade, and what we got was not my backyard and a customer moratorium, an ordinance to stop and this needed, project the location of the lots inspired
disordinates change are Some of the easiest and therefore least expensive properties
13:01:59 to develop in the county public waters on the properties.
13:02:02 Soils are perfect, perceptic. The property is located along Larry Scott trail, making a bicycle.
13:02:06 Can you? The town? A 5Â min, Coast? No critical areas, no shellfish, and similar density Parcels within a 100 yards.
13:01:30 Yeah.
13:02:15 This is where rural property and name only. Further, these older lots of already had 27 homes built on them in the past 10 years.
13:02:23 With no noted problems. The horse have already been left let out of the barn on this issue, and come binding these lots, having to combine these lots is only going to increase
the prices, and therefore further identify the community or is that the point talking about affordable housing and building a
13:02:39 sustainable community in one breath, and closing the door on the only affordable development space near town seems countered in the best interest of this community. I've lived
here for 25, years, and striking How few young families are coming here now i'm a realtor in town and I just went 2
13:02:55 years. Without singing, selling a single home to a first time home buyer, and that's we're withering community right now.
13:03:03 And no one seems to notice, or is willing to take the steps necessary to give port talents.
13:03:06 A well wrapped future, I mean the the migration.
13:03:10 The Northwest is, you know, it's it's just getting started and getting ahead of it.
13:03:14 Now, or watching our town being filled with only wealth. Wealthiest folks who can forward it is what we're looking at.
13:03:20 The same people complaining about town, growing to accommodate the middle class or the same ones, complaining.
13:03:26 They have to wait for table to eat at There's no one working.
13:03:29 There's you can't find affordable housing in your town.
13:03:32 I just think we just need to think of a long think of the longer game here, and really consider what we're what you're what we're doing.
13:02:20 Okay.
13:03:46 Thank you, Jim. We appreciate you attending and making comments today.
13:03:51 I think the next person who came on the screen on my screen was Terry Smith.
13:04:01 yeah.
13:04:03 Yeah, I'm Terry Smith from court headlock.
13:04:06 I'm also a realtor in the area, and I I I think that we're gonna cause a problem with more more paperwork to be done, more permits to be done.
13:04:18 And having less lots available for building, we're in such a housing crisis right now that we're so short of housing.
13:04:24 We're 250,000 needs short in Washington right now, without any other units being built And I think this is really gonna cut down the amount of available property to build on.
13:04:35 I agree with Jim. I think there are some areas that we could build.
13:04:38 Housing that isn't gonna affect the character of the county.
13:04:43 So I really think that we need to take another look at this.
13:04:01 Terry, you're gonna need to unmute. You'll have 3Â min for public comment.
13:04:47 Thank you. The next person I is Sally, a member of the public. I think so.
13:04:54 Okay, let I think Sally was next. She's kind of shuffled in with Staff here, but I think Sally was the next person I saw.
13:05:03 You have 3Â min. You need to state your name, and where you live where you live.
13:05:01 whereas my side
13:05:07 Hi! My name is Sally. I'm a permit consultant that lives in Port Towns, in Washington.
13:05:06 Sally
13:05:15 I just would like to request that the Moratorium, the the commissioners extend the moratorium.
13:05:26 I do not believe that there's been enough public outreach, not seeing that's anybody's fault.
13:05:33 I would just like to have more public outreach. I don't think that the contractors, the builders, the designers, the people that submit permits to Jefferson County, Bcb.
13:05:48 Are fully aware of the changes. That DCD. Is trying to make, and how it affects their business.
13:05:57 again. I I like how other people were saying, and how you know you're links half the time are broken. You can't.
13:06:06 You can't get to the information that you guys are trying to provide the public.
13:06:12 And I just think that it's really important that the Commissioners really take a look at this new ordinance and make sure that we're not making it more difficult for people
to develop in Jefferson county I I do like the idea of the pre-development permit and
13:06:35 being a previous employee of the county. I I do see benefits of that, but I just don't think there's been enough public outreach.
13:06:45 And I think that you guys need to at least give us a 60 day extension and allow Dcv.
13:06:52 To put more information on their front page, and how this is going to affect builders.
13:06:58 maybe you know, have a meeting and let people come in and let Josh, you know.
13:05:19 Bye.
13:07:27 Thank you, Sally. The next person I saw was Shelley.
13:07:34 You are now Shelly, You're gonna need to unmute, and then you'll have 3Â min for public testimony.
13:07:42 And please state your name, and where you live
13:07:44 is my name is Shelley Yarnell.
13:07:48 I live in Brennan, and I, too, would ask for additional time on this moreatorium.
13:07:55 I totally believe that there weren't enough people notified.
13:07:46 And pop.
13:08:00 We attended our homeowners, association meeting this weekend where this meeting was brought up, and there was an audible gasp in the room.
13:08:10 nobody knew about this, and we certainly weren't notified by anybody as the Ho.
13:08:18 there is an ongoing lack of help to Self county, and I think that it really needs to be addressed in much more detail before we have new rules being made.
13:08:04 Okay.
13:08:41 Thank you. The only other member of the public I see with us in the room is Lizanne Coker.
13:08:47 So Lizanne. Oh, I see another hand going up.
13:08:51 But, Lizanne, you're next you only to unmute.
13:08:54 You have 3Â min for comments
13:08:56 Thank you. Heidi. Can you hear me? Okay, wonderful.
13:09:02 So Liz Coker, poor towns and Resident Jefferson County Home Builder Association second time today.
13:09:06 Thanks for hearing me again, Brett Thank you for all the work on the question, and answers.
13:08:58 We can hear you
13:09:13 I do appreciate all of it. I do have to say, if would have been nice to have this like a week before this meeting, and I realized time was sensitive, and these questions came
up, which is probably another reason to jump on Sally's Bandwagon and ask for another's 30 days or 60
13:09:30 days, So the people can process this information. So that's just a statement.
13:09:30 Yeah.
13:09:36 The actual question I have is this: We've talked about parcels prior to 1,969 that are created.
13:09:42 So they're actually lots parcels that have individual numbers.
13:09:48 let's say somebody purchased lots from 1969 or 1965.
13:09:36 Okay.
13:09:54 We'll just go with my birth year. There we go, and they have 6 of them, and they all have partial numbers.
13:09:59 So what it be allowable under the current situation, or the future situation, I should say, to give 2 of those to a daughter.
13:10:11 Shall we say? And if those 2 2 lots equal, say 25,000 square feet, would that person be able to come in now and put in a building?
13:10:21 Permit, or would they still be able to do so in a few weeks?
13:10:26 When this is adopted.
13:10:30 That's a question for Brett. Sorry, Brett.
13:10:33 Okay, we're gonna answer all questions and and respond to comments.
13:10:35 At the end. Okay, So just to be clear, it's a specifically I'm specifically talking about giving separated parcel numbers.
13:10:46 They each have their own identifying number from the county. Maybe you know, but but they were pre 1969.
13:10:52 So, or maybe you're selling them whichever way.
13:10:37 After everyone.
13:10:56 That's it, I think that's all I have.
13:10:58 Okay.
13:11:02 Thank you. We appreciate you coming again again today. Let's see, Suzanne stole your next on the screen, and I'm just gonna say one more time before he starts Suzanne, that
if anyone has joined us in the zoom room, and you're on the attendee list and you would
13:11:17 like to make a public comment or testify on this issue.
13:11:21 Please use the raise hand button at the bottom of your zoom screen and we'll bring you over and call calling you in the order that you come over.
13:11:37 okay, I'm Suzanne Stalin. I love in Vernon, And I just heard about this quite recently.
13:11:45 And like everyone else. That's commented, it was very difficult to find the information, But I'm a real, relatively new resident, Jefferson County.
13:11:57 we bought our house about 3 years ago, and since I've lived in this county I've heard nothing but complaints from neighbors and people that I meet about the process in Jefferson
County, then it's very on risk that it's very difficult and I I believe that pretty much all of the rural
13:12:18 residents at least in Jefferson County, and maybe a lot of the other residents I can't speak to that.
13:12:28 feel, that
13:12:32 Yes, extremely frustrating, and it makes it very tempting to build without permits.
13:11:32 So, Suzanne, you'll have 3Â min for testimony.
13:12:41 And whatnot. I understand the counties desire and purpose in doing this, but I struggle, was What is this changing?
13:12:54 Because, essentially, as I understand it, these requirements about septic systems and wells, and the size of blocks, and all of that, have already sort of been in place.
13:13:06 For new subdivisions for a long time. But the problem that most people express frustration with is when they're trying to remodel an existing structure.
13:13:19 Add to it in some way, or make changes or improve their property.
13:12:43 Yeah.
13:13:24 The permitting process is really ownerous, and from listening to your presentation it may very well be that this would actually improve this process.
13:13:36 from what it has been, because people do something, and then they say they go to the planning people and they say, Oh, Well, we're gonna have to look at whatever because you're
adding a bedroom or you're adding more space in some way and that's gonna change this or that and
13:13:54 then they get these surprises that then require additional study.
13:14:01 An additional review, an additional documents and what not, before the permit is finally approved.
13:14:10 So doing. Some of this work upfront might actually streamline that process.
13:14:15 So I think I appreciate what you're trying to do.
13:14:19 But as as a as a citizen who's trying to understand this process is not familiar with either the existing process or exactly how these changes are gonna work out in practice.
13:14:32 I really think that a lot more has to be done to persuade me and the other people that are afraid of this change, and afraid of your process, that it's actually gonna improve.
13:14:50 Suzanne. That's 3Â min. Sorry
13:14:55 Thank you for your comments. We really appreciate hearing from you.
13:15:00 the next person on my screen was Kevin Coker, and I'll just put another call out to anyone who's joined us who wants to make a public public testimony about this legal lot of
record issue.
13:15:19 Thank you. This is Kevin Coker, with port towns in Washington.
13:15:25 a couple of things I'll put into writing that that I have concerns on.
13:15:29 But and I do like the idea of improving process. That's always been an issue with trying to make a a better.
13:15:37 system for us to be able to handle clients coming through one of the things that I want to point out to folks right now the State Building Code Council is going through another
version of the newest code It's going to increase the cost of a 2,200 square Foot home.
13:15:54 By another $24,000. So we need to be paying very close attention to not just this particular document, but how it impacts us in this community, and with the various other code
issues that are coming into play i'm also just a little bit worried about adding on to current existing DCD staff limitations, we
13:16:15 have 8 planners. We have one building official. He's overwork stretched.
13:16:23 he's currently now also providing fire. We're just although DCD.
13:16:29 Is taking over the fire. Marshall position, and that inspection process.
13:16:33 There's no additional dollars going into the department to assist, so we are becoming very heavy with code, and we're not supporting it through funding the DCD.
13:16:47 To be able to get these things done proper, timetable.
13:16:51 so the final comment from right now would be that I don't see anything really new.
13:16:58 In chapter 1812. That isn't currently on the books, you know.
13:17:02 We do all of the safety Review. We do all the Stormwater Review.
13:17:06 We do all the critical areas review on every single parcel.
13:17:08 The process, part of it, so that folks don't come in and get a half answer.
13:17:12 I think that is very valuable and commendable.
13:17:15 But let's be careful. We don't add all these additional processes onto a staff.
13:17:18 That's already under staff. That department is under staffed and create more time and money for both homeowners and for the county.
13:15:10 Please use the raise hand button at the bottom of your zoom screen, and we'll bring you over and calling you in the order that you're brought over. So Kevin, you'll have 3Â min
13:17:32 Thank you, Kevin. Frank Hoffman. You're the next person on my zoom screen, and you'll need to unmute and you'll have 3Â min for comments.
13:17:45 I'm Frank Hoffman. I live in. Commissioner Dean's district, in the county.
13:17:55 I'm really impressed by the end that has gone into the presentation You know that we just heard the last couple of hours, and I think I understand the intent It's just sort
of clean things.
13:18:11 Up to make make the process more logical.
13:18:18 but just in my limited experience I know people who have all kinds of unpermitted residences, and and I think you're about to face commissioners.
13:18:36 I don't envy you this. A political firestorm.
13:18:40 Okay, And I have that you provide more context, like as a person who's gone to meetings about affordable housing for years.
13:18:53 Okay, I would be interested in knowing how this fits into the county's emergency emergency declaration about the need for housing, because I know the counties concerned about
that issue.
13:19:16 Yeah.
13:19:16 But to me you're not I mean, I'm glad I don't have to deal with all these bone can be blank class.
13:19:24 But the counting is more. It has like broader interest that is not being displayed, I think, and that and I'm calling that the context.
13:19:36 And I just make that suggestion. If and you're already feeling the public fires soon, that that would help people understand what the county is about.
13:17:41 For testimony. Sorry
13:19:55 Thank you, frank We appreciate you being here today, and your comments.
13:20:01 Is there anyone else who's joined us on the zoom screen this afternoon?
13:20:05 Who would like to make a public comment. You can use the raise hand button at the bottom of the zoom screen and we'll bring you over in the order. Your hands.
13:20:14 Go up Oh, and there's also a caller if you're on the phone, and would like to make a comment, you can press Star 9 on your phone and then when once we bring you over.
13:20:26 Star 6 to unmute anyone else wanting to join us to make a comment, or to testify on this issue.
13:20:35 Please use the race hand button at the bottom of your zoom screen.
13:20:38 We see you, Bob, and we we'll bring you over
13:20:46 You need to accept the promotion. The panelists zoom
13:20:51 Should be a little separate screen that pops up
13:20:58 He's he came over
13:21:03 It's on both lists. I don't know why.
13:21:05 Okay. Good afternoon, Bob. It looks like you're unmuted.
13:21:10 You'll have 3Â min for testimony.
13:21:16 Are you there? Once you start talking you'll have 3Â min.
13:21:22 He's on the attendee list. And oh, okay, yeah, we can hear you now.
13:21:34 Okay, Great. Thank you very much. I appreciate. Yeah, I really appreciate the the detail and and the work that's been done on this issue. Yeah, yes.
13:21:35 Thank you.
13:21:46 Yeah, Can you state where your name and where you live?
13:21:56 Okay, Can you hear me now? Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I'm I'm Bob. Hi.
13:21:54 Oh, now you're muted. Need that? Yes.
13:22:00 I'm Thank Thank you.
13:22:07 we can hear you. Is he maybe listen to, maybe capture a couple seconds behind us
13:22:16 Yeah, so on, Bob Hi. And if I live on discovery, they have 10 acres overlooking discovery.
13:22:26 Great. You'll have 3Â min for comments perfect, and your testimony, Bob
13:22:31 Yeah, yeah, okay, that. Okay. So I appreciate. Did everybody hear me now getting all this back meeting?
13:22:39 Alright, alright, great! So So I'm there's a couple of big big issues that I'm really concerned about, and that that is how the county is dealing with climate change.
13:22:52 specifically both in terms of flooding, flooding.
13:22:36 Yes, we can hear you. Great
13:23:01 Hey, Bob, I think you probably on your browser, have the av capture.
13:23:04 Going So the meeting is going in the background, too. You might look through your.
13:22:56 And okay, I'm getting all this crazy feedback
13:23:08 You're different, Tabs, and and pause the video on av capture
13:23:15 Huh!
13:23:23 Yeah, yeah, okay.
13:23:43 I I don't know how to do that. I'm just gonna go go ahead.
13:23:19 Or you could even just close the tabs that aren't zoom
13:23:45 So I'm convinced about I'm concerned about.
13:23:48 I'm concerned about climate change. I'm concerned about the the additional infrastructure is going to be necessary to support these high density developments in the rural areas,
and I think those are definitely big issues that need to be taken into effect and there needs to be some sort of cumulative
13:24:07 Effects. Assessment. When folks are developing large areas in the rural area.
13:24:13 yeah.
13:24:14 So so I I really would. I really like those concerns to be addressed by the county in this ordinance, and if there's additional time that needs to be done that I I hope that
could be done by DCD.
13:24:29 yeah.
13:24:35 Thank you, Bob. So Paula Valerie, we're gonna bring you over and I'm just gonna make another call out.
13:24:45 Anyone wanting to make a testimony on the legal lot of record issue can raise their hand using the raise hand button at the bottom of the zoom screen, or by pressing star 9,
if you're on the phone and we'll bring you over the order that we see your hand, go up
13:25:01 I'm not sure where she went. You're gonna need to accept the promotion.
13:25:06 The panelists.
13:25:11 looks like you accepted the promotion to panelists, but haven't come over
13:25:21 She might have gone.
13:25:27 yeah. So, if anyone has joined us this afternoon to make testimony on the legal lot of record issue, you can indicate your willing or interest in doing that by using pressing
star 9 if you're on the phone, are using the raise hand, button at the bottom.
13:25:44 Of your zoom screen. Anyone who's joined us who hasn't commented yet, wishing to make testimony on the legal lot of record issue
13:26:00 Not seeing that any other help, George
13:26:09 George, George, you're gonna need to accept the promotion.
13:26:12 The panelists.
13:26:19 can you hear me
13:26:21 We can hear you, George. You have 3Â min for testimony on this issue, and please stay.
13:26:26 I'll give you less than 3Â min 3. My name is George Jant.
13:26:33 I reside within the city limits of Port Townsend.
13:26:38 You know really impressed and pleased to the amount of work on this very complex issue, and keep up the good work, and yes, if you get information out there, like Thomas suggesting
that would really be helpful but you're on the right track.
13:26:28 State your name, and where you live. Please
13:26:59 Thank you. George: Okay, I'm gonna make one last call.
13:27:07 Has anyone joined us this afternoon to testify on the legal lot of record issue If you're on the phone, and you would like to make testimony, Please use this press star 9, and
we your handle go up and then we'll bring you over, and If you're on zoom you press star not
13:27:25 or no, you press the raise hand button at the bottom of the zoom screen.
13:27:28 Sorry I've been saying the same thing over and over again, so it's like Amanda has joined us, and Paula is back with her hand up.
13:27:36 That was who was there before. You'll need to accept the promotion.
13:27:41 The Panelist Paula, and then you will be after Amanda
13:27:48 Amanda, Grace, is that you or another Amanda
13:27:51 it is indeed me am I am is it? Am I queued
13:28:01 Thank you, Commissioner. My name is Amanda Grace.
13:27:55 Yes, you need to stay your name and W. Where you reside, and you have 3Â min for testimony.
13:28:03 I reside in district 2 in Jefferson County. I sorry I'm projecting a phone call.
13:28:12 I just wanted to chime in. I've been doing this for the last couple of commissioners meetings, and I just wanna say that I really appreciate the depth of effort that this is
taking from the DCD department and from our community at large I'm I'm impressed by
13:28:31 everyone's response to try to dig into this panel in a meaningful way.
13:28:03 Okay.
13:28:36 I really hope that the Commissioners will consider extending the moratorium out for some period of time, so that the folks who are deeply invested, and what the outcomes are
have an opportunity to come to the table and talk to the commissioners or talk to the DCD.
13:28:55 Office I've long held the belief that we need to make to to really make things more equitable in our community.
13:29:02 We need to make them simple and straightforward, and anyone should be able to understand what is being asked of them in a very broad perspective.
13:29:12 On the website in a very clear way, point click. Get you to the information you need.
13:29:17 This still doesn't quite feel like it's there.
13:29:19 But I think that there's an intent to get there and and thank you for taking the time, and I just, wanna I think my community and all the folks who showed up today for comment.
13:29:30 Thanks, Amanda. We appreciate you coming today, Paula.
13:29:43 Hi! This is Paula Valerie. I own a small lot in Brennan, and it's been 2 years that I've been trying to get answers on what to do with it.
13:29:59 I am, I am coming from Texas, although I'm a North Westerner, and I need to return to the Northwest and it's been extremely difficult finding affordable housing.
13:30:14 So I finally found a small lot in Brennan that I could take and build on.
13:30:20 I thought, Yeah, with a modest, modular home, and then the moratorium hit and everything stopped.
13:30:30 So now I just don't know how to proceed on whether I'm even eligible to to build on this lot, because it it does.
13:30:43 It's small. It's less than a quarter of an acre.
13:29:36 You'll need to unmute and then state your name, and where you reside
13:30:57 Thank you, Paula. We appreciate you making the time to be here today.
13:31:01 Is there anyone else who's joined us in the zoom room or on the phone?
13:31:06 Who wishes to make a testimony on this issue.
13:31:09 The legal lot of record issue If you're on the phone, you can press Star 9 and we'll see your hand go up and bring you over.
13:31:15 If you're on zoom, you can use the raise hand button at the bottom of the zoom screen and then we'll bring you over.
13:31:24 So this is gonna be my last call for testimony today on the legal lot of record issue.
13:31:32 Anybody
13:31:42 anyone watching to make testimony on this issue. Okay, I'm gonna close the hearing.
13:31:52 Can we still? Oh, we'll we'll need to discuss that.
13:31:59 So I'm gonna I'm gonna close public testimony for today, And we're gonna continue deliberations and discussion.
13:32:06 On this issue and respond to the comments and questions we've received.
13:32:12 We're gonna keep going or take a break at some point.
13:32:16 So let's take a break. Biological means. You want to respond to the questions What kind of a break does anyone?
13:32:26 Everyone need like, okay, I know, I can't skip lunch. I mean, it's not built that way.
13:32:33 Okay, so should at least half an hour, Right? We take half an hour break.
13:32:37 Yeah. But while we have the public here, still listening, should we at least do a Okay, we can do a first deliberation or something, or just maybe direct response to comments
and then deliberate after I just worry you know a lot of the public still with us.
13:32:53 And I still set 5Â min break. Okay, Okay, So let's take a let's take a break until it's 1 32 Let's take a break till 1. 40.
13:33:01 Now, Okay, get water. Relieve yourselves. Stretch Go outside.
13:43:16 hmm.
13:43:25 Okay? Okay? Hmm: We're just getting back.
13:43:32 We're just getting back together, folks. So just another minute.
13:43:38 Here. Yes, not until everyone's
13:43:48 Doesn't matter. Changes, that's all. Mark stuff.
13:43:55 hold on!
13:44:00 Everyone got lunch cause I guess I'm not gonna give you a lunch break.
13:44:05 Then, you know Healthy, right?
13:44:18 We know how. We're just waiting on you, Mark. We're just waiting on you.
13:44:23 I'm sorry. Hmm!
13:44:30 audio on Okay, So I'm gonna call us back in the session.
13:44:37 Calls back to order, and we are first thing on our agenda is to respond to all the comments that we just received.
13:44:48 Who wants to take a crack at that? First I saw you writing down all the specific sprint Well, thank you, Madam Chair and I Members of the Board What I thought I would do is
first address the questions that referred around affordable housing and we do have Brian here.
13:45:05 We did some research on the properties that were sold. When I say research, we looked at specifically what are the price points?
13:45:14 both the new development of of of those lots, meaning that if you had a lot, that is substandard in size, and it was developed.
13:45:28 What is the price point of sale? And we compared that against the price point of sale of existing homes in those lots, and one of the findings was that first those older those
older homes there are selling where in the $300,000 range which is affordable
13:45:51 or comparatively affordable, and we saw that the the new lots, the lots that would be subject to this ordinance when they're being developed.
13:46:01 They're selling for about $600,000, a significant increase which wouldn't which suggests that they would not be available as affordable housing.
13:46:12 And and that sort of is consistent with this process, known as filtering.
13:46:16 If you Google the term filtering, it's a a land use or a housing analysis that looks that typically the older homes are cheaper than new homes, and that the older homes of The
old thinking was that you just keep building and then the older homes, will supply the community's affordable
13:46:37 housing. And so what happened in a lot of communities that those older homes, those older apartments were being purchased by developers, and we in introduced at a much higher
market rates, and so the filtering the term of art from the 1,900 fiftys was
13:46:57 filtering. It wasn't working. It was broken, but in our case we're looking at at lots that are being developed and we're seeing that those new lots when they're being developed.
13:47:08 they're coming in at passports. That wouldn't be affordable for the workforce.
13:47:13 and that's not just the lot price you're talking about.
13:47:15 The 600,000 That's correct, the developed And so.
13:47:21 But that's in contrast to housing that is already been developed.
13:47:24 You know, might have been constructed in the Seventys or Eightys.
13:47:28 They're coming in at much lower price points, and and Brian, do you want to add to that?
13:47:33 I know that you did this research on the price point so, and I just summarized it.
13:47:37 yeah, yeah, I think the only thing that I would add is not only are we seeing a price point difference, but the number of homes that are coming into coming to market.
13:47:49 the the number of homes that were built between 2,011 and 2021 that were sold between 2,016 and 21.
13:47:36 And I really want to thank you for looking at that. Yeah.
13:48:02 They're only 28 homes, of newly constructed homes in these store plastic came into market, and in the same timeframe there were over 700 homes that came to me market and and
historic subdivision.
13:48:15 So we're seeing not only a gap in price, but a gap in the numbers of homes that are coming to market.
13:48:21 So this development potential that we're addressing this question of, But what is the impact to development potential and bringing lots to market market activity seems to indicate
that the price point is higher for new construction.
13:48:07 Yeah.
13:48:39 But isn't the home construction market that we have kind of custom, custom, homes?
13:48:45 It's not, you know we're not building subdivisions, you know I don't know.
13:48:49 I guess I feel like, even in the the staff Report the sepa.
13:48:54 I took, I guess, issue with the the growth rate that was listed there which was below our comp plan growth rate.
13:49:01 But I know that since I'm running free election I'm paying attention to voters, and I know that in one third of the county that I'm in, there's been a tremendous amount of churn
right there's, over 1520% of the voters that we're there in 2,018 are not there
13:49:17 now, so there's a huge amount of turnover in these existing in the existing market, That, I think, represents the fraying of our social fabric, as people are priced out of the
market, and our you know rentals are decreasing and I see
13:49:34 anecdotally, and in our, you know, monthly budget meeting that where 300,000 used to be the standard kind of the baseline and we'd get you know, notification.
13:49:43 Of How that's sold for over 500,000. Pretty much.
13:49:46 Everything's selling for, you know more than 500,000 now, and that we are in a in the last 3 years.
13:49:53 It's gotten much much worse. And that impact is real on the workforce, You know, starter homes don't exist anymore, And what was a start or home now before now can be is being
at least in my anecdotal experience purchased and up converted to you know a second
13:50:13 through home, a third home from folks that you know. You hear about the I mean the cash cash, plus, you know, $50,000.
13:50:20 Those days might be kind of on the downside with new interest rates.
13:50:25 But we're seeing a very different market. That is not sustainable, and I I guess I I push back against the analysis a little bit.
13:50:33 I just wanted to add just one of the comments because you did hit a district.
13:50:39 3 includes the oldest part of Jefferson County, and I'm referring to the community health assessment that was done.
13:50:46 And it identifies that Brennan in particular, that area has the oldest populations in our county, and we are the oldest Median age of any of the 39 counties in Washington.
13:51:00 And so I wanted to highlight that. That might be because we're seeing the passing of some of our older adults, a percentage of that I don't know specifically, but but it would
that's the the demographic in that specific area in district 3 we're old throughout the county I
13:51:16 don't know. I I I'd love to see some data on that, because the people I've talked to are even in in DCD's office itself.
13:51:24 We've had people that their house went up for sale, and they had to relocate to a different area with more reasonable real estate market, because they could not afford to keep
living here and that's that's what i'm concerned about more than natural passings I guess Okay, So we all
13:51:40 pay attention to the voters I spend much of the last few days talking to voters he said, just because you're the one thing but campaigning you're paying attention Well, I'm
paying attention to different. Numbers.
13:51:52 I'm just saying I have a different data set about the amount of change, and I think our growth is not reflected is not an accurate representation of the market because it's
not just about new people.
13:52:02 Coming to the county, but people that are having to leave the county and being replaced.
13:52:06 Okay, that was my point. So do you. Wanna Do you wanna dig in more on this affordable housing topic, or do we wanna respond to all the comments we received, I think, we should
probably go ahead with the response I just would note the one comment is that that you're absolutely accurate that these the the
13:52:25 fact, check was predates. The pandemic. And so so there could be a scoring of some of what we're seeing, and terms of growth that it looks as though lot of the Pandemic related
information says that population centers like seattle and Portland at a net loss of people during
13:52:45 the pandemic, but many people left. And so our data may not yet capture that.
13:52:52 And so; but whether or not that is sustained over time is another question.
13:52:58 but but we've seen that historically, that there's it's we might do it.
13:53:02 It's projection, but we find that it's not linear that we'll have all of a sudden a big growth peak, and then it'll have a huge trial So So I just wanted to just to highlight,
that and then just going to the the heart.
13:53:16 Of the questions. There was the the biggest question that we had we saw revolved around a postponement and so, or a continuation.
13:53:26 So I wanted to talk about 2 different things, and then I believe that we should have a prosecutor.
13:53:32 Chief Civil Deputy Prosecutor weigh in on that we did not do a notice for the extension of the Moratorium, or for a new moratorium, and so what can happen that I can speak to
is that we can continue the the public hearing until next week there's no question about
13:53:52 that you can. The board does have the option of extending this one week, and which should enable you to act One day before the moratorium sunsets.
13:54:03 but with regards to a new moratorium, or an extension I would defer to our chief civil deputy prosecuting attorney, Mr.
13:54:11 Hunsucker. Yeah, I did speak with Mr. Onsucker, and we said we could.
13:54:16 He was gonna refresh his memory and Mike. So you might want to grab the other one over here.
13:54:25 so I did consult with Mr. Hunsucker and he's refreshing his memory on on the rules.
13:54:30 But and here he is right now. So rather than me get corrected by him, I'll just let him speak to the question.
13:54:38 Hmm.
13:54:44 Philip, can you hear us
13:54:55 Oh!
13:55:02 I'm sorry I'm putting up the basis for the moreatorium, which is this is the section from the planning, enabling act.
13:55:09 You're looking at. There's a similar section in Gma, and they both say the same thing.
13:54:58 Alright.
13:55:14 So you have to have a subsequent public hearing. That's held prior to each renewal, and 10 days notices required for a for such a public hearing.
13:55:22 Yeah.
13:55:35 Now
13:55:28 So too late to extend the Moratorium
13:55:39 You know what we did, but we didn't. What we did in the past.
13:55:43 When we we did this at least once or twice, during when we were doing the commercial shooting Facility Ordinance is we?
13:55:51 We we have, we have we one expired. A more term expired, and we passed a new one, so that is a possibility.
13:56:01 But I think you should. I think you should consider if you're thinking about this, we want to talk about it. We should.
13:55:38 We talked about it, we talked about good
13:56:23 we haven't even talked about whether or not there's interest in extending.
13:56:09 We should talk about it. And I think there's potential litigation that could be from this
13:56:24 So yeah, at some point. Snapchat Address: the comments from Republicans: Yeah, that's what we're doing.
13:56:31 First, that this was one of them, though, brought it multiple times.
13:56:36 Hmm, So I'm gonna move on to another question, and I just wanted to paraphrase, I and I I wanted to just explain the the assistant plan of Brian when he mentioned the term castle
versus a single family.
13:56:52 He was really referring to the ecological footprint, the footprint of the building.
13:56:56 And its impact. And so you okay, reduce impacts by decreasing the size so that it's the area, the land area that it covers.
13:57:08 It will not extend into the wetland, it will not extend to the extended to the shoreline buffer, and so, but unfortunately by doing that, you you don't get that 4,000 or 5,000
square foot building because you you you have a height limitation, and so what he was getting at was specific to
13:57:27 that that there may be development, opportunities that are constrained, but that and and because they're constrained that you won't get that large home.
13:57:38 And so I just wanted to address that. And that came from Mr.
13:57:41 Tom tears more on that brand that that minimalism I think that was minimism.
13:57:48 Standard is that a state I mean? It sounded like that was part of State statute.
13:57:55 Is that right? This is not something we are making up to decide how big people's houses can be right.
13:58:04 Well, and I guess what I think of is the no net loss provisions that what we're trying to do is is to for the beneficial ecological function of a lot of these encumbered areas
that we're trying to ensure that there's no net loss of that function and so
13:58:20 typically an increase of the footprint expands the impact, And so, and I'm not sure if that is the the provision that you're referring to.
13:58:44 it's not having a detrimental impact on the ecological functions of that landscape.
13:58:51 I think another way to say, that is, if someone builds within the building envelope they can build whatever size home they can afford.
13:59:01 Thank you.
13:59:04 And I'm gonna keep going. Josh, Do you want to add anything on that?
13:59:09 Okay? And then the other question was that I felt that we did receive these questions, And I really want to thank Lizanne Coker because the more questions we get the the better,
the process is and and And we respectfully appreciate those types of questions, and and Tom tears the reason
13:59:37 that you are, or the communities receiving these answers is that it came in response to the ordinance that was posted, and so we were turning it around as fast as we reasonably
could and I apologize if that speech was not timely enough for community members to digest that another
13:59:58 question that we've addressed all those questions about time, And so we've also addressed the developer.
14:00:08 Jim's questions about a affordable housing, and so, we did address that also.
14:00:14 they were concerns. And I'm gonna add, I'm gonna ask Josh to talk about the concerns that have been repeated a couple of times about processing times.
14:00:24 and I did acknowledge that Miss Terry Smith, who actually helped us in identifying how best to contact community members and ensure that we are doing outreach sufficient to
meet the expectation of the community, her concerns was that there was more paperwork, and that's
14:00:44 a concern, and so we'll have to. I'm gonna pass that to Josh.
14:00:51 and then Sally did ask for an extension of the moratorium, and we and it doesn't believe that we had sufficient outreach.
14:01:01 And I just really want to talk about that outreach.
14:01:03 We did have a and it's included in our packet.
14:01:08 we do have a plan that was presented to the Planning Commission, and in that process we develop this plan, not in a vacuum.
14:01:19 We first created the advisory bodies, one, the body of that included realtors, and then a technical advisory team that included the Central Services Department, Environmental
Public Health Department.
14:01:34 The prosecuting attorneys office. Jeff Chapman's office, the assessor's office, that is.
14:01:43 And so we did have this overall team and were looking at ideas of how to ensure that this information was provided to all the community members.
14:01:55 And it's through this process that we heard about some of our other attempts I remember Linda Atkins.
14:02:02 I remember Linda Atkins identified that the postcard might be the a good way to go, because, it had been done before, and so it was Through this.
14:02:10 This these, these subgroups that we developed a plan.
14:02:17 And that plan we brought to the planning commission for vetting to ensure that whatever we were deciding to do really benefited from as many eyes as possible, and so we did
reach out to the homeowners associations, we did also send those postcards and we did
14:02:38 build an online story map so that community members can see that we also did go to all the farmers markets, so that there was actual physical presence in the community.
14:02:50 So that persons can ask questions and so, and that's not exclusive.
14:03:06 yeah, I I think sorry the list kinda came a little fast.
14:03:11 We offered a number of focus group opportunities. We We created 12 focus group sessions for the community to sign up for, and only had an attendance or enough sign up for 2
sessions.
14:03:25 Those total 6 people there are 30 interested parties, only 6 of them signed up for the focus group opportunities.
14:02:56 There are other things that we've done, and I I believe, Brian, if you wanted to just highlight things that I've left out
14:03:39 Thank you. Thank you, Brian. And then I'm gonna go back.
14:03:44 I'm looking at some of the questions here, and there was a question about another request from Lizanne Coker, about a 30 to 60 day Delay request, and so we're We've already
had some input and We'll circle back to that because that's going to be
14:04:03 a overriding question is to of the options available to us What the Board would like to do, and with the support of our was kidding attorney he did already identify some of
the moratorium provisions by posting that making that available for the community to see the question that was
14:04:24 asked is, and I'm just trying to paraphrase this.
14:04:29 With someone with a 2,500 square foot lot that was conveyed, and then separated with separate tax ids prior to 1969.
14:04:39 What is the process? And and I and I may not have paraphrased that, as was as well as I would like to 5,000. 25,000.
14:04:50 So big enough for 7, big enough for a septic so. And, Josh, why don't you want to handle that one
14:05:03 Thanks, Brand So believe someone mentioned trying to get answers on whether a parcel was buildable.
14:05:13 I'm not sure if this is the same person or not.
14:05:16 I guess I would say that that happens all the time.
14:05:19 It's currently happening. And usually it's by way of a septic permit application or a building permit application, And the same questions are asked, How much area do you have
available for to accommodate a septic system What is your water source for drinking.
14:05:33 Water? Are you on public water, or do you have to drill a well?
14:05:37 One of the road setbacks. One of the critical areas, etc. So it's it's very hard to say definitively whether a particular parcel can be built 25,000 square feet it's over 15,000
square feet so it sounds good let's go with that but unless it the parcel
14:05:54 was created unlawfully, or it does it meet one of the exceptions?
14:05:57 And even if it didn't meet one of the exceptions under the under these proposed regulations, there's still is the reasonable economic use process to go through to look at buildability,
of a specific parcel, I did hear another scenario I believe It was Lizian kok said 6
14:06:12 lots. They all have separate parcel numbers or tax identification numbers, and could I give 2 to my daughter, and then could she build on those?
14:06:24 So I guess one important point to make is that just because an identified piece of property has a tax identification number, it doesn't mean it's a parcel or a lot.
14:06:34 I would have you know the Assessor could weigh in and be more specific about that.
14:06:37 But that's for tax purposes, identification, etc.
14:06:40 That's one of the things we're trying to address more formally through this ordinance is to make that decision about whether it's a lot or parcel, so there's no more confusion
around that question So i'd say that but that said 6 lots in a row nothing here would
14:06:54 prevent someone from giving 2 of those lots to a child. You could do that 4.
14:07:02 Your will comes into effect, if you will, or you could do that through your will.
14:07:07 so nothing here would change that law and say the one thing that I would say that might be different.
14:07:13 Is it? Currently The daughter would go and ask the question: Can I build on these 2 lots?
14:07:22 And the answer would come through a septic permit application that they would be routed over to DCD.
14:07:27 Halfway through the process process. And then those critical areas and etc.
14:07:33 Analysis would occur, and then it would go back to health and health.
14:07:36 Most likely. You know what would apply the same lenses of drinking water and septic, and most likely would tie those parcels together through a restrictive covenant.
14:07:46 Or there would be the option of consolidating the parcels.
14:07:49 That's if they could be built upon. So the same questions can be asked.
14:07:52 Can you build upon those parcels? Can you accommodate a septic, and do you have drinking water so the only thing that might change after would be the instrument would be to
day ask the same questions except those questions, would be asked, first not later, like not after a building a septic
14:08:09 permit application or building perfect application. Be through this legal lot of record determination, site, development review process, And then, if the answer is yes, they
could be built upon together, then those lots would be consolidated into one line and then could build, upon it If you could depending on the second conditions in terms of I think brent
you
14:08:29 handed me another question, and that would be about the process So I started to hint at it.
14:08:34 There.
14:08:37 Since joining the team in June, become well aware that there's a significant permit backload that's dating back basically to the start of the pandemic, maybe before but it's
gotten worse, if you will over the pandemic record the combination of record permit numbers working from
14:08:55 home, not having the office open to the public, just, etc.
14:08:59 And so on, has created a situation where there are stacks of permits on the planners, desks, and we have been trying to address that problem through process improvements since.
14:09:12 At least then, I'm sure, before, then and we will continue to do so.
14:09:16 And whether this adored ordinance is adopted today or next Monday or not, we would still continue to to do process improvements.
14:09:24 This does represent a significant change in how business is done. So that is true, and we're doing that because we believe that the change in business will result in better
outcomes for both the county as a whole.
14:09:38 And for the customers. So that's the short answer on that one.
14:09:42 But happy to go into any more detail, as you will, and then, last thing I want to say before I stop talking would be Mr.
14:09:47 Fox mentioned the Cape George project. If he's talking about the same project that I think he's talking about, it is an historic pl and it was sort of that thing I talked about.
14:09:59 Before de facto re plot, but not exactly a replat per Our current code and we're working with that applicant through the Cpa process.
14:10:08 The State, Environmental Policy Act Review. We did a scoping exercise to get comments about that.
14:10:12 We still have to issue a threshold determination under sipa.
14:10:16 But we're still waiting to get a site plan that we can approve through the development code.
14:10:23 Really, the main question just to summarize. Yes, there are questions around transportation facilities and stormwater.
14:10:29 But the main question is septic capability to accommodate for the logs, and we're still, I mean, I know that pinky man goes here and a director of environmental public health,
to perhaps comment, if need be But the basic question is we need to see I'll configuration a
14:10:44 reconfiguration, because this was a boundary line, adjustment, application.
14:10:47 That's what it was. So we need to see with multiple lots involved We need to see a configuration that shows that each of those lots can accommodate a septic system as simple
as that We're waiting for that so that we can move forward in the process so this ordinance will
14:11:00 not affect that project at all, because the application was already in the pipeline and accepted.
14:11:06 And so the moratorium didn't affect it, either.
14:11:09 I could continue, with some of the additional questions, Frank Kaufman asked questions about unpermitted structures, and and one of the things that I think we've already touched
space on is the fact that there are structures that are unpermitted is that unpermitted
14:11:27 structure on a a lot that was substandard. We don't know that yet.
14:11:34 Would we do have a process in place for built without permits.
14:11:39 And so that process won't change It'll be the same process that we already have available.
14:11:45 the only change that be enacted would be through an amnesty, and there are different ways to approach that, and we could come to the board to look at that.
14:11:55 from what I I understand is that it does not allow us to not enforce the building code.
14:12:05 And so for those in the community that are building structures without permits.
14:12:11 What we need to do is to document how it Okay, comply with the building code.
14:12:17 So that's gonna be something that we can't do away with.
14:12:21 And sometimes that requires a forensic investigation, which means that we have to verify that the the rebar is inside of the concrete at the level it should be to support a
structure and so these are certain things that we are unable to change and all of those would be an issue regardless
14:12:42 of this ordinance as well. That is correct, and then broadened, interest not displayed.
14:12:50 And and I wanted just to touch base on that. We did.
14:12:54 At the outset, the through our outreach we had to come to a determine, a decision point, and the decision point that we had to reach out to come up, come to terms with is, do
we provide a postcard to every property owner in the county or to only those that are affected and then the
14:13:12 other question is, just Docy, while ups alone has a quarter of a 1 million visitors a year. The State Park.
14:13:19 There there's a lot of recreational shell fishing use in that area.
14:13:26 the unpermitted construction and permitted construction.
14:13:32 Both have been a contributing source of our fish. Of our closures.
14:13:39 we did not reach out to those users those shellfish, recreational or commercial, but we did specifically target those that had a vested property right as as exhibited through
a tax parcel.
14:13:58 So so there isn't that broaden interest displayed, partly because of of how we went about this process.
14:14:06 And so at the table would not be those that represent the the shellfish industry, or or the or the recreational users?
14:14:18 Bob Highness asked a question about how are we dealing with climate change?
14:14:22 And I just wanted to say that this board has approved 3 different grants. A one of them is to look at sea level, rise, and those that is funded.
14:14:35 By the Flood Control Assistance Account by the Department of Ecology.
14:14:39 We've received nearly $300,000 of grants, and one of them is also to look at shoreline to create a shoreline.
14:14:48 Users guide, and then we also have some analysis being done updating the big quill, and also adding for the first time the little quill to identify how we can address not only
climate change, but any other issues that might affect a life and property, and so we are a actively involved in that
14:15:12 and this ordinance would not have an impact on that.
14:15:16 And so far as it would work the other way around, that we might have findings that come out of this that say to specific property owners.
14:15:26 We've seen a certain increase of the sea levels in your area.
14:15:30 This is something that you need to be aware of, but typically that would affect our flood maps And so our flood maps would typically be the regulatory tool to address some of
the climate change issues.
14:15:46 and then, and I I see the extension of the moratorium again.
14:15:51 I hope we We have answered all of the questions. If there are others that seem to be unanswered, I would be more.
14:15:58 We're here to answer them. Yeah, awesome. You see any of it?
14:16:03 One address right? Any questions that you guys heard that weren't addressed
14:16:10 So I mean, I heard a lot of people talk about concern about the the moratorium, and more time and half the people.
14:16:20 I think, said something about extending the moratorium, and Mr.
14:16:25 Han Zucker suggested that we could go into executive session to discuss that.
14:16:29 What our options are. I'm asking Carolyn to get me some language for that executive session, or maybe Philip can.
14:16:36 Okay, Well, should we should we discuss if there's an appetite for that?
14:16:40 Yeah, but I'm just trying to get the logistics in order in case one side there it's okay. I am not in favor of extending the morphium.
14:16:49 so I can state that that's helpful. I'm I mean, I understand.
14:16:54 People's inclination. I'm not necessarily inclined, but I would entertain that idea here and do it.
14:17:01 But I I feel like deliberating might be more useful, at least first, to to figure out where we are.
14:17:06 Hmm: Okay, So maybe we don't need to go into an executive session to discuss that.
14:17:12 Okay, And it's during deliberation we decide, but that's the direction that you wanna go.
14:17:18 Yeah, Yeah, Okay, I was just. We're doing a logistics, Friend: over here
14:17:25 and then another option we have is to continue the hearing until next week.
14:17:31 If we want to get more input, And we did get quite a bit of input from folks that they just heard about.
14:17:35 This didn't have time for input. I I having been on the planning commission in 1998 when we adopted the first comp plan under Dma, heard very similar comments.
14:17:46 Back. Then after we'd had, like 40 public meetings.
14:17:50 So I'm yeah, that's always. We always hear that you have to head.
14:17:58 Okay, have a level of privilege to be to be hip to it, and then we have the capacity to participate.
14:18:04 Up to this point, and I mean there was a out proactive outreach from Dcv.
14:18:07 That that really did exceed expectations. You know whether I mean, and you know a lot of the questions that we had, too, are not impacted one way or the other.
14:18:21 Really, by this. You know whether you can build in the lazy C is not a question that we're answering with any of this these decision.
14:18:27 Points there are some important policy questions that we have to answer.
14:18:31 I think or we approve. We're not or not, but sorry.
14:18:37 We're not. We can't take more testimony right now.
14:18:41 Sorry.
14:18:47 So what What's the desired path forward through this conversation this afternoon?
14:18:52 Delivery colleagues. That's that. I think we should talk.
14:18:57 Okay, lay our cards on the table. Okay, I'm happy to start in.
14:19:10 Well, I guess, too, we have haven't really responded so public testimony, either.
14:19:16 so really appreciate folks being engaged on this. You know it is.
14:19:21 It is, seems to be a perennial problem that people feel like they haven't had enough time or information, and we've spoken to that a little bit.
14:19:31 but I I am thinking back. We know it was pretty much exactly 6 months ago that we started talking about this less 8 days, and you know, I think we have we've actually done quite
a bit of outreach remember working hard on press release.
14:19:47 Then that went into the newspaper and the I don't. I don't think that Brian mentioned the the story.
14:19:54 Oh, forgetting the name Sorry map, you know, which has been available for some time, and like, I think there has been a lot of opportunity, and it's distracting if this many
people didn't receive the postcards that is, because we spent a lot of money getting those postcards out to affected
14:20:10 folks so I'm a little bit curious about that, but you know I think we we often.
14:20:16 Unfortunately, it comes to this, and we've been talking about this also in public session for a few weeks.
14:20:19 So. You know there has been opportunity for input So just I I just wanna say that my desire to not extend the moratorium is because I think that there has been ample opportunity,
And we are up against some tough timelines here that we don't have the the the luxury to really
14:20:39 extend, that without some pretty serious ramifications.
14:20:44 So let's see, I can't remember. Maybe it was Suzanne who talked about kind of not understanding the the context or or feeling that maybe the public don't understand the the
context of the Moratorium and of the ordinance the this issue before us and and to me that's
14:21:02 a really important context. You know, this is really, you know, comes down to growth management, which again is something that's very difficult to understand.
14:21:13 And no matter how much we talk about it, it's very difficult for most people to understand even those of us who have worked in it, and with it for decades, it is still confounding.
14:21:25 But I take very seriously our need to manage for growth appropriately.
14:21:33 Need to protect resource lands, our need to protect rural lands, and the many ecosystem services that those lands provide and so I think it's it's I keep coming back to the
bigger picture not not in the details so much of the ordinance which I have also read
14:21:49 and take seriously. But the you know that really this is about how, as a rural county, how how do we think about land use looking far ahead into the future?
14:22:03 And I mean, I mean a 100 years into the future, and I think we're at a really critical inflection point right now in our understanding of climate change, in our understanding
of potential in migration, as a result of climate change and our this time of where we're seeing or
14:22:26 anticipating some weird growth in rural areas like ours.
14:22:31 and you know we we are a county that saw very little growth, while much of the Puget Sound region was paved over and Sprawl took hold.
14:22:43 We didn't have that kind of growth, and I think it provides a really unique opportunity to do things differently.
14:22:50 and I I take very seriously that that responsibility to to do this well and to do this right.
14:23:00 so I am in favor of moving forward with the ordinance I think a lot of work has got into it with much more expertise as to the mechanics of it.
14:23:09 And how it needs to work on. DCD's end.
14:23:11 I I I I trust that you have given an eye to kind of lean concepts and process improvement.
14:23:19 As you mentioned, so less less concerned about those, you know certainly concerned about the big picture questions like affordable housing.
14:23:28 But I will say, I do think that affordable housing is gonna happen, in single family residences and rural residential.
14:23:37 And you know I I might feel differently if we didn't have the Port Headlock sewer going in.
14:23:42 You know that we need a place to put density, and and that is what our urban growth area is, for or urban growth areas is for the kind of density that allows for affordable
housing.
14:23:54 So I think it's a little bit of a red herring to say that this has direct impacts on affordable housing.
14:24:00 Of course it has some tertiary effects. Total volume in the markets, cost of building.
14:24:07 There's there's some effect to affordability. But in terms of a kind of affordable housing we need to build.
14:24:12 That's going to go in urban growth areas.
14:24:15 And I'm really glad that we're building the sewer so that we have a recipient, an area to receive that kind of density.
14:24:26 yeah, I'm sure I have more to say. But just just to say I I support this.
14:24:31 I think that we can do this well as a county where most people haven't been able to.
14:24:37 I think that you know I work very closely with the tribes, and they say again and again that it is.
14:24:43 It is rural development that is destroying the natural systems, that their way of life relies on.
14:24:51 No, they actually have treaty rights to to uphold as well.
14:24:56 but continuing to divide up and allow dispersed development in rural areas is an ecological disaster.
14:25:06 It increases car reliance, and I I just can't be a part of allowing that pattern of development to happen in Jefferson County so long as I have a say in it.
14:25:15 So that's my my starting point. Preamble.
14:25:22 Shall I go? Chair you should Yeah, These are tough questions, and there's big questions and minutia at the same time.
14:25:30 And it's really hard to parse. I'll say I said it last week, but I think the Site Development Review process is finally putting the horse in front of the cart, and I think it's
a really good idea and I think it's gonna make it a lot easier for a lot of people it does
14:25:43 seem to me that the we've made this a little more complicated than the problem in in my way of thinking, and you know whether a lot is buildable does not seem to really matter
whether it's a legal lot of record I mean, So we have a lot of kind of build ability questions in establishing a legal lot.
14:26:04 Of records So it makes it very confusing, even on a third reading, to you know, if you're looking at reasonable economic use, and that means it's a develop a lot.
14:26:13 But it's not buildable. It just adds so much complexity, and you know, if I was given the choice between the variety, the ones that we've seen, I would I would go with Clark
County and say, Yeah, it's a legal lot, if it was legal when it was built it wouldn't.
14:26:27 When it was, you know, platted. Then it's legal, and whether you can build on it is a separate question, and I appreciate the way that we're approaching.
14:26:37 That I also about outreach. I know that DCD.
14:26:39 Has been trying hard at outreach, and that is always problematic and and getting it out there is hard.
14:26:45 I listening to like Jim Fox's testimony?
14:26:49 I I do think that's the kind of housing development that we need, and I think there's room for that.
14:26:55 If the environmental studies show that there is, you know. So I really want to protect people's rights, to use their property if they, if you got a 2 and a half acre parcel,
that you've been planning to build your forever home on it and it is buildable in a safe and
14:27:08 environmentally conscious way, I wanna facilitate that. So this well, this doesn't stop that.
14:27:17 It seems to make it more difficult, and it does put this, this having to prove that you have a legal lot of record to me.
14:27:25 Really, Seems like we're putting the cart in front of the horse.
14:27:27 I would much rather assume legal lots. And if there's a problem or a red flag that raises in the development, the Site Development Review you know, which is gonna happen anytime,
someone wants a permit, then that would trigger Oh, well, you've, got a you know, you've got to validate, that you have
14:27:43 a legal lot of record, and that's more like, I think, because by my reading Clarks County, so I I guess I'm all behind article 7 in 1,840, but 1812 right?
14:27:58 Now I feel like is creating barriers for our residents to use their property.
14:28:06 Perhaps not something. I can get behind. And as to climate change, I mean, we're we are addressing these issues all over the place, and I think that there's not a question on
either side of this that is really about climate change that comes in the safe development review and And the the other the other code that we have but whether or
14:28:26 not. You know my my 2 and a half acre parcel is a legal lot.
14:28:34 It doesn't affect the climate, and I guess that's so.
14:28:36 I think it's that's too much code. Basically as my preamble
14:28:43 Hey! Well, So first of all, I really I appreciate staff time and and approach with us, and sharing information.
14:28:52 It's been very clear. And, please, I do think that the proposed changes make the development process more straightforward.
14:29:04 I think it was Amanda Grace, and said, I just wanna simple, straightforward process.
14:29:09 I think this does make it more straightforward for applicants.
14:29:16 I received some comments over the weekend about concerns about water, and I know that water availability is an issue here, but it's in in unpacking.
14:29:26 That I was thinking, Well, sure you can hook up to the city water system.
14:29:30 Maybe as we can, and iron don't have that, but you know, are we considering the long term availability of the water that feeds that system?
14:29:38 And I don't know how that gets that conversation or question it ever gets addressed, or even looked at.
14:29:45 But we can hook up to the water system so that feels a little like sure the water hook up ability.
14:29:52 But is there water for the long haul for a lot?
14:29:56 Events, development. I heard that Mr. Tearsh's concerns about so the laser fish links, and you know the access to the information about our meetings and this hearing today and
I think I've experienced that over my relatively now short time here getting my not gonna be able to I am the new grow much longer
14:30:19 but give myself at least 2 years, so I've got a couple more months, and I feel like that's an area where collectively, we can all improve, and how we get information, out and
Having things on our front pages just really accessible, some some web pages, within the county website, are better and then others, But I feel
14:30:40 like, and audited. That might be something to put on a priority list for our public information.
14:30:45 Officer when they come on, Mark, because I've being the new person.
14:30:52 I don't always know where to find information at at this point.
14:30:54 Now I can. But for about a year I was like, Where is that so?
14:30:59 access to information and something I'd like to see us really make a concerted effort to improve.
14:31:05 I think I've said it already twice today that and I was on the planning commission that worked on the original Comp plan.
14:31:13 Under Dma and I I was just. It was almost 25 years ago, and we did draw urban urban growth area and express the need for a future urban growth area in the dry area and drew
drew lammards you know So we did that work.
14:31:32 So I was culpable in that process, and agreed at the time that that is the thing that we should do to direct development.
14:31:44 How our community grows a lot's changed in 25 years, and and some things have stayed the same, you know.
14:31:54 I'm still sitting here, wanting to be part of the conversation, and lay the groundwork for the feature of our community.
14:32:00 But, as I said earlier, even as as I was on the the planning commission we had I don't remember how many dozens of meetings about that initial Comp.
14:32:10 Plan and lots of press releases, public meeting notices in the newspaper, and tons of tons of participation.
14:32:19 But I still remember all the criticism that we didn't provide people enough time or enough opportunity for input, And you know I was.
14:32:28 I was. So. What behind the ears back then, and I was like what no who's not paying attention here?
14:32:36 And so I feel like I hear that comment, but I feel like you guys have done a really good job and I do know people who re a lot of people who've received the postcards because
i've gotten some phone.
14:32:49 Calls as a result of the postcard, so
14:32:57 I also agree with Greg about the possibility of this specific development we're talking about on out in Cape George Road.
14:33:03 Maybe it'll make it through the process. I don't know, The professionals are working on that.
14:33:08 Maybe another. Maybe it can be design so it could. It could make it through the process.
14:33:17 And I think that that's probably what Jim Fox and and the applicants and other people who've talked to me about that specific development are talking about is, how do we get
through the the ability to make this development work, for for the community.
14:33:36 so. I mean I I I think those are the points I'm mostly wanted to make, and I don't have any.
14:33:45 I agree with Kate. We need to do this right, but I feel like the what we're doing with this process is much improved than what I've seen happen in the past, and it's this idea
of continuous improvement and we're all working towards that we're using that terminology around
14:34:03 here We're trying to make things better as we go, and I know that our team at the county is committed to that.
14:34:10 so I I feel like I'm not supportive of having another moratorium.
14:34:15 I would I would entertain the idea of extending the hearing until next week.
14:34:20 If we want to hear more folks. But I would, you know that's just the new girl saying that so.
14:34:28 But I would like to get this issue resolved, and move forward with the work of planning for affordable housing in our community, and accommodating more people in our community,
because I see it.
14:34:40 I see people wanting to come here, and I feel like if we drag this process out, then we'll necessarily be delaying other work, because our capacity is is limited.
14:34:55 And you know this is this is the hardest working word of county commissioners that I've ever been exposed to, and hardest one I've worked on Yeah, hardest one I've worked on,
but also I've been around I've seen.
14:35:06 Lots, of variations of boards here and in other places, and you know we're all working full time or more.
14:35:13 Some weeks, 7 days a week. So there's there's a limit to the capacity we have So I feel like, if we keep dragging things out we're delaying other priorities that we have We
put on.
14:35:25 Your plate? Well, and it's a moratorium right?
14:35:31 but building perfect applications, which is yeah, so, I think we're all kind of on, and I think I I love the the additional the Attorney General Pinus that you included in the
in the packet.
14:35:46 And I you know the one actually to Jefferson County in 1,998.
14:35:49 I think really frames this as a policy question. I'm just gonna read the final conclusion to conclude, we reaffirm our previous opinion that a county may require a new review.
14:36:01 Under, you know, 1517 potentially a replatting or new subdivision of undeveloped land still in single ownership, which was platted before 1,937.
14:36:08 However, we declined to read the Growth Management Act as absolutely requiring counties to dishonor their old plots.
14:36:15 I that I don't know that resonated with me, and I think it's a choice that we can make on whether we you know I mean, I could see an option where we take the site review pass.
14:36:27 That, and let the moratorium expire and see what happens.
14:36:30 you know, I guess I I just. I feel like clean water is important, but it's it's you know.
14:36:38 We we always give voice to problems with a proposal but we don't give voice to what happens if we don't have that project happen.
14:36:51 And I think right now, or how housing crisis is so acute that we have to do everything we can to support starter homes.
14:36:58 And that's as you said last last week. I think these properties that are still undeveloped are the difficult ones to develop.
14:37:06 It's not an automatic thing, and it's not.
14:37:08 It's not a place to build, you know, affordable housing subdivisions.
14:37:11 Most of these, I mean, there's a few of these 1,890 platform maps, but it's often how can someone carve out a life for themselves there for for us? Home?
14:37:20 We've heard from a couple of people or their final home, or sometimes people just getting started and buy some raw land.
14:37:26 We heard a lot of that testimony when we were first contemplating this moratorium about people that are like, I finally got my start, and I just want to scratch out my life
and I want to.
14:37:36 I want to support people in that
14:37:41 But I mean, I think I think this ordinance does still allow for that.
14:37:48 It does not preclude it; it provides pathways to get there where appropriate.
14:37:51 Yeah, and provides a venue, a a format, so that we can also say the kinds of development that is not consistent with moral character.
14:38:03 Or you know any number of things. We also have the ability to disallow those.
14:38:09 I think we are, provides for both all that, without the legal lots of record.
14:38:12 What does that add? Well, and that's a yeah, I mean, I I I hear your point there, and I maybe we should let Staff respond, and I know it's pushing you to ask before I still
feel a little unclear.
14:38:23 But it was interesting to see that the other counties have that process, too, like there must be a value in declaring the legal out of records separate from build ability.
14:38:32 I also feel clear what that is. Yeah, I I mean, what's the advantage of If we didn't have it at all, And a lot was a buildable lot was.
14:38:42 I mean a lot was just a sorry. I have one process question, So we said we were gonna take an 8Â min.
14:38:47 Break alright, come back and resolve it to the 15 comments we've received.
14:38:51 And then we were gonna take a longer break, and I do want to be sensitive to people's needs and just ask the phone.
14:38:57 Now? Do people need another break a longer break? Or are you
14:39:06 Close to Closure I mean, we're getting into it, can we?
14:39:09 How about it? 3 o'clock We take the break for that.
14:39:11 No? Okay, Take a break. Add 3 o'clock. Yeah.
14:39:20 Hmm! I don't know since does Staff need to break now?
14:39:24 Okay, looking to the questions you'd ask us to while you're doing it, and not be on camera.
14:39:35 I mean, I'm sure sure I Let's take a break until 3.
14:39:41 Let's take a 20Â min. Break and come back at 3 and finished deliberations.
14:39:47 Discussion with that because I I mean I I saw a pretty pressing need for a longer break a while not too long ago.
14:39:54 Yeah, I just ate in front of the microphone. Okay, Well, that's so.