HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Transcript 10-05-202217:29:55 Oh, we appear to have A quarrel and it's 5 30 well, I think i'll go ahead and start the meeting Eleanor, which we're good. okay.
17:30:08 I'll call to order the October fifth 2,022 meeting of the County planning commission.
17:30:16 I'll throughout the meeting by a roll call i'll take your name, and please say if you're here, Arlene here, Kevin here, yeah here, Matt, not yet Laura here, ld
17:30:41 You can see all day you must be here, but I can't hear you
17:30:51 It's the same problem it's Chris not here Mike here, and Richard's here, and Ld.
17:31:03 When you you're you're like here we we joining alrighty.
17:31:09 Next item is approval of user agenda. We have a agenda change.
17:31:17 There was, like my laws continuation, but in the last meeting it was inadvertently admitted from the agenda.
17:31:22 This will not be included as item. can. Are there any other concerns about the agenda
17:31:31 During that we'll push on to item 3 Approval of minutes We haven't.
17:31:39 I set up meeting, minutes from the September 20 first, 2,022 meeting like to entertain a motion to approve the minutes
17:31:52 Appreciate moved. I was Mike, all second Cynthia.
17:32:01 Now, Cynthia, thank you is there any discussion let's see I had one thing.
17:32:09 Let me look at it again to make sure blah blah blah.
17:32:15 No, i'm Okay.
17:32:21 Alright, so we'll i'll pull the commissioners to approve the minutes Coll.
17:32:28 Approved Kevin. abstain Dean Cynthia.
17:32:35 Yes, match. not here yet, Laura. Yes. see, Ld.
17:32:46 Is still working on getting back. Chris is still not here.
17:32:51 Are you here, Chris Mike? Yes, yes, we approve the
17:33:04 September. 20 first wait meeting minutes. Are there any planning planning?
17:33:10 Commissioner updates today. Is that a? Was that A. Yes, Lorna.
17:33:17 Okay. Got it?
17:33:22 Okay, hearing none, we'll push on to item agenda item number 5 DCD.
17:33:28 Staff and director updates
17:33:33 Okay, The first item we have on here is an update on the legal lot of record organs which was passed on Monday.
17:33:41 And josh If I could ask you since you're here to give a quick update on community development's response to the ordinance.
17:33:50 How we're setting up for doing site development review. Okay, thank you. So again, I wanted to give a quick update that the Board did pass the ordinance this Monday, and it
took effect.
17:34:11 Yesterday, and then the moratorium that's been in place for a year expired yesterday.
17:34:18 So today, essentially, technically, is the first day of a new era, and I wanted to just briefly describe what the what the Board did.
17:34:29 That, was a bit of a shift from the planning commission recommendation, and it wasn't because there was any disagreement per se with the Planning Commission Recommendation Board,
in fact, was expressed a lot of gratitude
17:34:40 for your work, and the led the public the public process to the Board for consideration of the ordinance.
17:34:49 Bye we had a workshop with them, and then we had a public hearing that turn into a rather lengthy deliberation.
17:34:59 It was a couple of Mondays ago, and it went from 11 Am.
17:35:02 To 4 30 Pm. without a lunch break. Really So it was a Marathon session there, and a lot of different ideas expressed both by commenters from the public as well as Interchange
Exchange between Board and Staff
17:35:17 And so we worked hard last week to institute some changes to the ordinance, and essentially that i'll just narrow it down to this, instead of having, I guess I would say this.
17:35:30 The Board wanted to simplify, and they wanted the main feature to be Site Development Review with legal a lot of record determination to be integrated into Site Development
Review when necessary.
17:35:41 So that's something that we did is sort of shifted around to put Site Development Review as the principal exercise legal letter record would be handled through site to them.
17:35:51 Review, and it was a there's a presumption of legal lot of record status.
17:35:58 Now for all lots that were lawfully platted after August eleventh, 1969.
17:36:06 So those lots that don't meet that definition that would be checked essentially for the legal a lot of record determination. we'll do a basic check on the loss after 1,969.
just that we're plotted just
17:36:17 to make sure that the nothing arrive with the plotting process, or that something hadn't changed with those lots since they were planning.
17:36:25 But basically that's the main feature a couple of other simplifications.
17:36:30 The what was before a required task for the property on our 2 record.
17:36:37 The result of the legal lot of record determination at the county honors office is now replaced by an option, so we can provide a determination that property owners can record
at their own discretion.
17:36:48 In fact, I just had a meeting with some folks yesterday who wanted to do that.
17:36:52 They asked me about that, and they wanted to do it, for for whatever reason they did.
17:36:56 So we have the option there. if there's a negative result, meaning that property doesn't qualify to leave a lot of record, then we'll still record it.
17:37:05 And then another major change. I think those are the main changes if you're interested.
17:37:12 I could show you a revised sanky chart that Brian worked up to show this new process, but I also don't want to presume that you're interested in that.
17:37:22 So I'll ask if you want me to do that otherwise i'll say that's enough for now, unless anyone has any questions about the process.
17:37:31 Lorna's hand is up josh I would just say, why don't you send that to us?
17:37:37 And and that way, you know, we could probably either reach out to you, or maybe put it on the future agenda.
17:37:45 But I think that might be the best way to handle that at this point.
17:37:53 Okay. In fact, I just put it in the chat i'm not sure if anyone can access that.
17:37:57 But if you can, there it is, so I just stuck it in there.
17:38:00 But if I can also, we can also follow up with an email with the chart in it.
17:38:05 Thank you. and I I guess just real quickly. The other thing I want to say is that since we spent a fair amount of time last week preparing this ordinance for possible adoption,
and it turns out that it was a
17:38:16 unanimous vote by the board. On Monday they put us a little bit behind the curve on some of the last minute details for implementation.
17:38:24 But now the good news is that we have a new web page that talks about the process.
17:38:29 We have the application forms ready. we've received the first series of applications.
17:38:36 We've been answering phone calls and emails and in person drop-ins about it.
17:38:42 And I'm gonna be appearing at a builders round table event tomorrow, and also on October fifteenth, which is a Saturday.
17:38:53 There's a the Jefferson County homeholders association has a forum at the Cotton building port towns, and so i'm going to be appearing at that for at least one session there
to talk more
17:39:01 about it. We have a whole series of tasks that that we want to do to follow up just to improve the the guidance, the instructions we're gonna do Faq.
17:39:11 And and some other follow up things to that are, you know, some other internal processing items.
17:39:16 But basically we are underway with the new system. So I just wanted to let you know that. Yeah,
17:39:23 I wanted a clarification on something. you just said you said a major change was that if there was a negative result of the determination for legal a lot of records that you
would the the the Department would record that to the
17:39:40 title, and if there was a positive result, the owner could do that, that's what I remember seeing in the version that we saw and that it would work like that and you know, presumably
if it was my property and it was a
17:39:57 positive result, and I was given the piece of paper to record.
17:40:02 I might not record it. but I don't know i'm not sure what the difference is.
17:40:09 Yeah, The difference is that in the previous version, before we changed it last week, it was a requirement for the proper.
17:40:20 We honor to record the determination at the auditor's office.
17:40:22 I think I might have said during the process that it's not something that we'd be we were likely to follow up on.
17:40:30 And so although there could have been concert messages for not recording it's not something that we would track.
17:40:37 And that was when again the legal lot of record determined the all instrument there.
17:40:43 So. the big change, I would say, is that we did change the language in that first sub clause in that section.
17:40:49 I don't have it in front of me but if you looked it up.
17:40:51 You could see, and the awareness is available from our web page or from the board's page.
17:40:55 Now that you'll see that we that's we've said it's it's at the discretion the property we could, on request, provide a documentation form that the property or could choose to
record
17:41:13 It's a it's a I would say that it's in terms of cost and time and so forth it is
17:41:19 It streamlines the process and makes it less cumbersome on the applicant.
17:41:23 I would say, we still will track those we'll track all of the determinations, and they will be available publicly.
17:41:29 So people can still find the information even though it's not recorded and it's not a notice to title for, say
17:41:41 Well before you continue on. I wanted to note that that the Matt has joined the meeting, and I would like to ask Ld. Ld.
17:41:50 Could you do a sound check and See if we can hear you Yet how's that perfect?
17:41:56 Thank you. Okay, So we'll go on then we continue Okay, thank you.
17:42:04 I wanted to give a quick update on the port Headlock wastewater facility project.
17:42:10 Yeah. as you talk to your community members about it I'm: currently reviewing several permits that have been submitted to community development from public works for the wastewater
facility.
17:42:25 Those are a conditional use permit for the physical plant and collection system.
17:42:32 There are some areas that are in the flood zone so will attach a flood development permit along with that conditional use.
17:42:42 And there's some areas that are in shoreline jurisdiction.
17:42:44 So they have submitted also a shoreline permit that goes through somewhat of a different process, where, after we approve it, department of ecology has the last word on their
approval.
17:42:58 So we're exponiting that review because public works is applying for some public works trust fund dollars in the next few weeks, and they're looking at a request of 6.7 million
through the about 5 million from a
17:43:23 forgivable loan, and 1.7 million for a low interest rate loan.
17:43:28 And this creates the complement of a 34 million dollar project.
17:43:35 So those app loan applications will be going in soon, and then
17:43:42 They'll hear how successful they are they have a lot of money available for infrastructure and in the State.
17:43:49 Of course there's always competition. for those so we'll get back to you on the success of that also Senator Murray and representative humor.
17:43:58 Our have been approached for a state and tribal assistance.
17:44:04 Grant or Stag Grand, and those watching closely, and they remember that we got a stag.
17:44:11 Grant as part of our initial design for the sewer and it's administered through is federal funds administered through the Environmental Protection Agency.
17:44:21 So that would be for an amount of 3 million dollars.
17:44:26 And so public works is looking at how to split up this.
17:44:34 These funds between the collection system which goes in in the ground along the streets, and the Nvr.
17:44:40 Plant. So the financing is coming together with these Grant proposals, and thanks to Marian Kilmer and the State infrastructure funds were getting the project tosembled.
17:44:57 And community development will be finishing up permit review for the project as well.
17:45:01 So it's coming together. Any questions about port hadlock wastewater facility
17:45:11 Okay, i'll move on to actually joel Sorry I couldn't get my microsoft phone off mute.
17:45:19 This is more Yeah. I I did have some questions.
17:45:25 And these pertain to The last check in I have with the sewer system.
17:45:35 The individual hookups were required to purchase and maintain their own macerator pump.
17:45:41 As far as you know is that's still part of the system and is that a cost that is expected to be born by the individual users?
17:45:52 How how's where are we that without today? I didn't speak specifically to the project manager about that today.
17:46:01 But those we are for phase, starting with a pressurized system.
17:46:07 So the macerator pump is part of a pressurized system, and will be on each individual's property that will connect their existing septic tank to the pressure system.
17:46:21 The financing for onsite costs typically is handled through long term loans like attached to a 20 year mortgage, or something to that effect, so that can be the more ties over
a long period of time there would also be
17:46:38 a connection charge per eru or equivalent residential unit that the landowner would pay to connect to the facility.
17:46:47 I don't have information about those costs yet and won't be known specifically, but until the full finance package is done, and put together for the collection and collection
system and how much to each person will buy into the
17:47:06 facility. so that would be forth coming to good question.
17:47:10 And What I do know is that the Public Works Department would have access to each individual property for maintenance.
17:47:19 But as far as who owns the pump I I I don't know yet
17:47:27 Any further questions on wastewater facility. okay we'll go to planning commission clerk.
17:47:38 Josh had sent out an email today to, I think, to plan commissioners as well that yes, it is that we're noticing the availability or the our application or the seeking a
17:47:58 part time, clerk, higher opportunity to serve as the planning commission clerk.
17:48:02 And so there are a lot of clerical tasks that need to be done with the planning commission, and we were thinking, sure be nice if they're was someone who was retired and had
extra time on their hands that they
17:48:16 could work but that of 10Â h or 15Â h a month on doing, planning, commission, clerking duties.
17:48:27 And The leader has a classified Add in It to date as well as on the county's website.
17:48:33 For job postings. So think about your community and your contacts and think about If there's someone who might like to jump in, sure who doesn't need to have a job for supporting
themselves.
17:48:48 But still have some time to do some paid work for the planning commission.
17:48:55 Any questions about the planning, commercial planning Commission clerk hire.
17:49:01 I have a question. It it's actually a question for Arlene earlier.
17:49:05 You mentioned that there were 2 newspapers that that are commonly read by people in this area.
17:49:11 You think the ad should be running the other newspaper as well?
17:49:14 Arlene. I do. Yeah, I mean, we got that notice, and I sent it to my admin to upload onto the Chamber website as well under jobs.
17:49:26 Thank you. And those publications were Which now that leader in the Pdm: Okay.
17:49:37 So we ran it in the leader, Pdn and
17:49:41 Probably not West End force news that if you did, Pdm
17:49:53 Go with which one i'll have to ask josh if that was published in the pdn also i'm not sure about that.
17:50:02 But I can check. I might have to check with Jody or Morgan from the front office staff about that
17:50:10 Okay, quickly. The last update is just to let you know.
17:50:14 I came back from Alright, the Housing Washington Conference that was held in Spokane.
17:50:22 And did, and the fast and furious day of networking and talking about housing.
17:50:28 There were presenters with a statewide perspective on housing and how to put together housing, funding with the multi-family tax exemptions and other methods.
17:50:44 And I did want to let you know that I stood up in the and I Q. A.
17:50:53 Session regarding housing in rural areas, and said that you know sometimes rural areas just have difficulty in the fact that we are on separate systems and Gma requiring that
you'd be in an urban area and
17:51:09 be on a urban wastewater facility doesn't always meet the needs that we have in rural areas.
17:51:16 So I was invited by and for sale of commerce, who, you may remember, was bye working on
17:51:26 The Commerce housing publication a few years back. to help identify what those needs or what those concerns are.
17:51:35 I mentioned that our Lamards are limited areas more intensive rural development are rather constrained.
17:51:44 And her reaction was that Well, they don't belong there and that's development in real areas.
17:51:50 That shouldn't be expanded upon it's kind of the ant antithesis of Gma with the sprawl. And so I think there's a group to talk about rural development patterns and how how places
get to
17:52:05 where they are in supporting rural communities it has a little bit different.
17:52:10 Landscape what we see in our more urbanized counties.
17:52:15 So there's an opportunity to work some more on housing ideas with commerce.
17:52:23 I thought that was a great opportunity, and I know many of you have done similar connections and contacts.
17:52:29 But we'll keep pushing on that Gma side of things, and any questions about housing Washington conference before I close.
17:52:44 Thanks for doing that, Joel. Okay. that's all the updates that I have to provide.
17:52:52 Thank you, Joel Boom. move into item 6 of our agenda, which is public comment period.
17:53:04 This is the the public to comment to the planning commission topics of interest.
17:53:12 Speakers will have about 3Â min to is that their points.
17:53:19 Is there any of the public who are here who would like to present today?
17:53:36 Are there any that i'm not seeing
17:53:46 I don't see anyone in our participant list who has a hand up
17:53:57 Looks like, no one today wish to speak. I will, I will close the public comment period.
17:54:04 This meeting. we want this next item: The agenda is is sent to agenda.
17:54:11 We should be received. yeah, i'd like to entertain a motion to accept.
17:54:17 Well, let's see, maybe perhaps before that you'll could you comment about the consent agenda.
17:54:24 Oh, yes, I just wanted to attach a few documents that we're referenced in an article that maybe may be some fruit by having in your binders or your planning commission materials
and
17:54:44 we often find ourselves discussing a couple of legislative issues with appearance of fairness and the and the Public Open Public Meetings Act, and so I included appearance,
affairness, doctrine in Washington
17:55:07 document. let's see if I can share my screen quickly
17:55:16 There. you'll notice you'll recognize the cover because it's a pretty ugly looking cover, but generally this just goes through the history of the doctrine, and how it is put
into legislation, and maybe some
17:55:32 pitfalls published in 2011 so you'll remember that the legislature made some changes to open public meetings act during Covid.
17:55:45 But I think it's still relevant it's some general information.
17:55:47 Then I put in the consent agenda this document, knowing the territory, basic legal guidelines for Washington City County, and special Purpose district defaults. and so that
can give you a go to reference for when
17:56:03 we're looking at appearance of fairness issues open public meetings. and then last we were discussing last meeting and bylaws about ethical approaches, and how we bring ethics
or equity into our work on the
17:56:20 planning commission. So so I wanted to be sure you had the latest aicp code of ethics.
17:56:28 Professional conduct for has a lot of good information and awareness of equity and justice, and how we put that bring that into planning.
17:56:39 So those 3 are not anything that you have to digest right away.
17:56:43 But I just wanted you to have that in your and your planning commission materials have a quick question.
17:56:54 Yes, One of the questions that came up in offline discussion was whether the Jefferson County, DCD.
17:57:07 Is a member of the American Planning Association or the Washington chapter of the American Planning Association,
17:57:19 And and thusly are the planning commissioners members.
17:57:26 The Department is not a member itself. Individuals in the department are members, and
17:57:34 The Department helps pay for our membership as employees here.
17:57:39 Some of us are certified as planners through American Institute of Certified Planners, and that acronym is a Icp.
17:57:48 And some of our course respondences i've gotten the decorating wrong.
17:57:53 But no problems. Ai CD. so Brent, Josh and I are aicp certified. Go!
17:58:01 Mine has lapsed couple months ago, because I needed follow up with some maintenance credits.
17:58:08 So the the 3 of us are certified, and others in our planning group participate in the Apa.
17:58:16 American planning association with have a local peninsula.
17:58:19 Chapter as well as a state of Washington chapter of the apa So there's certain levels of participation that you can can have. and and we all have access to that kind of information
through individual memberships that we can log into the
17:58:37 Apa website and and find information if you remember there's a membership area.
17:58:44 So that's kind of the crux of it more more individual membership type.
17:58:51 Yeah planning freelancers. So the Planning Commission specifically is not a member of either of those organizations.
17:59:01 Correct. They do have some information for planning commissions and planning commissioners on the Aba website, and I think you can get too much of that. not having to have a
membership.
17:59:15 There could be some, too. some type of planning commission membership available. But we haven't really pursued that if you're interested we could look at more closely at what
resources you have from the Apa website as a planning
17:59:31 commissioner I think it was a different question but I won't I won't speak to that now.
17:59:37 We'll be covering that when we look at bylaws.
17:59:39 Are you talking about my question? But we could talk about that when we discussed bylaw and I could do a better job, and we'll get to that later goal to remind you again what
these these consent agenda are
18:00:00 posted are there on the laser fish site that I believe you typically go to for your packet materials. Good.
18:00:11 Thank you, you know. Entertain a motion now to accept the consent agenda.
18:00:17 So moved. Cynthia you're a second
18:00:26 I'll second thank you lorna any discussion i'll pull the Commissioners vote.
18:00:37 Yes, no, or it's saying, please arlene Kevin.
18:00:41 Yes, yeah, yes, Laura. yes, yes, like crystals here.
18:00:54 Mike so yes, for Mike and Richard says, Yes, too.
18:01:04 Okay, go ahead to the the manager for this meeting, which is the deliberation findings of fact, the recommendations for the or mineral resource land overlay proposal miles and
a gravel mla 20
18:01:22 one and dax 0 0 0 1 9 Joel.
18:01:27 Thank you. Mr. i'm going to bring out the powerpoint here as a guidelines for us, and today we'll be talking about the miles sand and gravel findings and recommendations and
hang on a
18:01:51 second i'm trying to do do things in once and Let's see, I show, and I need to share my screen
18:02:12 There we go. I think this should be appearing now, finding some recommendations for miles standing gravel resource, land overlay same slide is
18:02:23 Some project updates from when we last talked about the project.
18:02:29 Remember, last meetings, September seventeenth, was our public hearing, and we had a couple joining us from gamble, scalum tribe, and Jamesown Scalin tribe, and the planning
Commission
18:02:47 also has had questions about taxing gravel resources at the point of sale versus part of the extraction and
18:02:58 So i've submitted a public records request to the department of Revenue to explain a little bit more of the background for that and then i'll i'll talk about a couple of these
other items so
18:03:10 look at the taxing point of sale and I've got a document here to ring up
18:03:19 Here are the results of that just got this afternoon or this morning.
18:03:28 So I was asking about this point of sale versus point of extraction and and how that works.
18:03:38 So the question is, is this what really happens? And they respond: Yes, that Washington sales tax Is destination based?
18:03:47 The sales tax dues do on shipped, or deliver goods based on where the customer receives the product.
18:03:53 Rather then the point from which it is shipped and there's some history behind that that we'll get to
18:04:02 So they've been using this type of taxing the point of sale since 2,008, and they provide these references to Washington Administrative Code and the Revised Code of Washington.
18:04:17 The Rcw. reference here is titled streamlined sales, and use tax agreement. and
18:04:28 They note that the change from origin base to destination based sales tax was required in order for Washington to become a full Member State of the streamlines.
18:04:41 Streamlined sales tax project. So there is a Washington Senate bill, 50 89 substitute Senate Bill.
18:04:49 That i've it out. but having kind of chance to digest describing this Washington State source of taxing oops. so
18:05:03 You could look at us, Senate Bill 59 and
18:05:12 That's about the the crux of what they could answer. I also got an answer from the Jefferson County treasurer, showing basically, the makeup of our sales tax receipts. And the
part that we are
18:05:29 aware of is how much mineral resources there goes out of the county for sale out of the county.
18:05:36 So i'm working on digesting that information it's not a real critical for our our review, but it will go into our final report.
18:05:48 And is a good question that the planning commission brought up.
18:05:51 So these are the references that you can look at for more information.
18:05:56 Washington Administrative Code, and Rcw. as well as Senate Bill, 50, 89.
18:06:06 So that's the answer of why yeah do you have that i'm not seeing it on the screen
18:06:17 Yes, i'll go i'll go to that now so 82 39 30 pre blind sales, and use tax and establishes that for the purpose of collecting or paying sales or use tax
18:06:36 that it will be at the at the point of sale it's not a very long piece of like section there, so you can look at that.
18:06:50 And then let's take a look at the
18:07:02 Back 4, 58, 2145 is local sales and use tax which support the the answer that they are providing in carbon revenue.
18:07:15 If you're not gonna show it on the screen could you say it more slowly. Oh, it's on it should be on the screen.
18:07:20 I'm not sure he's not doing I don't see? I see project updates there.
18:07:28 We go? how's that? yeah yeah
18:07:40 You see, project updates slide with a next slide as well as required findings.
18:07:47 I think it's asking you to end the slide show before doing something else.
18:07:51 Okay, I can't do 2 things once here with
18:07:59 Yes, I will send those references to you that'd be great, thank you.
18:08:04 The whack is 4, 5, 8, d 2 0 dash, 1, 4, 5.
18:08:12 Sorry about that. Somebody could also put it in the chat.
18:08:15 Jill.
18:08:26 Okay. Got 2 in the screens open
18:08:35 And the Rcw. is 82 dot, 32; dot 7, 30
18:08:45 Yeah, I do find that chat
18:09:07 Yeah, we got we got. Yes, okay, Great.
18:09:22 There we go. let's see do you see the project updates again.
18:09:30 Okay. So the the other item is diminishing assets.
18:09:35 Doctrine, and I just I got some information i'm Friday from our prospecting attorney's office.
18:09:42 We don't have access to the legal searches in dCD. So
18:09:48 There was a case that I looked at years ago that I was trying to find again, and and they helped me find it.
18:09:53 What diminishing assets doctrine is, and DCD.
18:09:58 Was in court with Iron Mountain glory 2,009. believe it was in superior court where we were.
18:10:07 Had a disagreement about our cfo determination of determination, of significance, and the argument was that if you have an asset, a mineral asset that you can't continue to
follow that vein or
18:10:25 deposit of that mineral asset and it's a doctrine that I believe is beyond State of Washington.
18:10:35 And it is a would be an argument by a mineral company to be able to follow asset across to another area, so that may come into consideration with the mineral resource land overlay
it doesn't have to be
18:10:54 determinant factor is, we have plenty of gma and comprehensive plan goals and policies saying that the overlay is something we you know, need to and want to do or identifying.
18:11:08 Mineral resources. But there's also this other reason that a local jurisdiction may do it is that there's a doctrine that allows further extraction.
18:11:18 The case was for not conforming mineral or gravel resource, and they wanted to follow a resource, and they were taking the court because the appellant didn't want to see that
nonconformity continue to
18:11:35 expand. And so this doctrine was brought into. Okay.
18:11:41 The next item, for while sending gravel is through the Comment letter from the port gamble scalin tribe, and also through James Town.
18:11:55 They were working together is that there may be some fish barrier called culverts.
18:12:01 So fish barriers that are in the project area. and
18:12:06 Their suggestion was that that could be part of the mitigation of, or conditions of approval for the project.
18:12:14 So. As we look at this, it looks like an opportunity.
18:12:17 We could ask Miles santa gravel to fix fish barriers and assist the fish passage on Thorndyke Creek, but if it's not part of the project, it's outside of their project area,
we can't
18:12:32 have them make them do that and there are some there's a case law that defines that our mitigation or conditions have to have a nexus to the to the project that's being proposed
and it has to be
18:12:48 proportional to the impact. So if we see an impact that doesn't have much to do with what they're posing. We can't make them spend money on it.
18:13:00 This, so what we call nexus and proportionality.
18:13:05 So. we are reviewing where those fish barriers are, and I got some feedback from the tribes.
18:13:14 And i'm going to be speaking to them some more Apparently there was a site visit by a planning Commissioner of the Jefferson County, planning commission with the tribes and
miles Sand and gravel on on this
18:13:30 Monday and I, I just I didn't know who the planning commissioner was until I I followed up with the tribes.
18:13:40 And I It was Chris Llewellen.
18:13:42 I believe had gone out there, so if Chris is connected to us yet.
18:13:49 I was going to ask her at this point to give enough date on the site visit.
18:13:53 I do have some results from the tribes in my ongoing communications with them.
18:14:01 And then I also wanted to just make the comment that if There's an opportunity to do a site visit by planning, Commissioner.
18:14:09 It's always helpful to include the rest of the planning commission and miles standing gravel would have to do multiple trips if we're doing these kinds of things on our own
and the drives also in
18:14:24 coordinate do have limited resources. so we want to be able to be sure that we're meeting our needs collectively rather than individually.
18:14:36 Joel. This is Lorna at you know. Of course we could not do that with the entire planning commission without violating the Public Meetings Act, unless we included the public.
18:14:46 So that's always the the you know conundrum or noticing, Well, don't we have to include the public, though notice or not?
18:15:02 Not sure I i'm not sure about the public then or a meeting where there isn't discussion where there isn't that business business is defined in the open public meetings.
18:15:18 Act we wouldn't be doing business so that's a good question. Laura let's check in on that, You know.
18:15:26 We did it down to the sooner's treatment plant and Brennan, I mean, we've done it before.
18:15:32 So what? it? a problem, then? yeah, we used to do this pretty regularly, and conference. Comprehensive plan.
18:15:41 Update. Yeah, Maybe if it's back binding it it's okay.
18:15:47 I'm not sure but yeah let's get that clarified that'd be good alright cool last time while standing gravel was before the planning Commission was some years ago, at that time
the entire planning Commission
18:15:59 arranged a tour of the site, and it was no problem.
18:16:03 It was well known. I don't think it's apparently it's not an issue.
18:16:08 And Matt, you had a comment. Who you want to make?
18:16:11 Yes, thank you. I did hear from chris llewellen when she got back, and a takeaway comment from her was that she was impressed with the mitigation that they're doing.
18:16:24 That was kind of the the takeaway comment that I got through text message.
18:16:29 So it was nice to hear that she sat with her own eyes
18:16:37 Some of the feedback from or campbell's Callum is that there are many culverts on the site.
18:16:43 There's a number of them that were correct. Yeah, many of them were put into place during Forestry actions, and that would be Rainier.
18:16:52 That would be needing to do the work, too. Solve any fish barriers.
18:17:01 There were some questions about how Wetlands function, and you remove a level of over burden.
18:17:09 Rainwater, for example, isn't traveling through 20 feet it might be.
18:17:14 It's just traveling through 15 feet or 2010 feet before it hits the water table.
18:17:18 So you may get difference different hydrographs in Thorndy Creek, where water would be reaching that that level of Thorndy Cree faster after a rain event rather than moving
through a larger soil
18:17:33 column. There were also comments from the tribe saying that the reclamation and restoration that they've done the replanting is looking much nicer than they have expected.
18:17:46 And they were, they were saying they did a really good job with their plantings and reclaiming the area that they mind.
18:17:59 There was a question about pit to peer miles standing gravel again, emphasize that they're not involved in it to appear there's nothing in the operation that has to do with
that but they thought.
18:18:15 Rainier is still investigating pit to Peer Project from our office.
18:18:20 Yeah, our perspective. They don't have an active permit with us so
18:18:29 We wanted to clarify that again that believe there's an active picture after it has nothing to do with miles sand and gravel and and that's something to in our review of this
project.
18:18:50 Yeah, I guess it was a 2Â h visit, and they covered a lot of ground, and and there was some positive feedback about the Forest Restoration Post mining.
18:19:00 So those are all the project updates and So Now we'll go through our required findings, and what we'd like to do is to finish our input on the required findings tonight.
18:19:16 And then have a Motion to adopt what We've written in the required findings, and then DCD.
18:19:20 Will put together your findings and recommendations into a letter format.
18:19:26 Bring it back to our next meeting for you to vote on in the dock, and then we'll fully that letter to board of county Commissioners.
18:19:33 So that I think i'll bring up our project schedule.
18:19:40 Now, if you can see the project schedule, a excel workbook Not yet.
18:19:47 Nope, let's see
18:19:53 Sorry. i'm sharing this screen and then re-sharing.
18:19:57 Yeah, that's good point. I was just doing that here. we go, I think I lost track.
18:20:03 I lost track of where it was. There you go. Can you see it now?
18:20:05 Yeah. Okay, So What we're doing on the fifth of October.
18:20:11 I put a weekend there for a next planning commission meeting to finalize the recommendation letter, and then we brief the Board of Committee Commissioners, probably first week
of November, and that briefing could include planning commission as
18:20:27 well or the chair, and and then we would be charging out the legislative action about the 20 first of November.
18:20:39 Okay, So onward to let's see if I can do this again.
18:20:47 Real quick, let's stop sharing
18:20:53 Okay, So You probably recognize this homework part what we're gonna do is to go into our required findings, and we can also refer to our comprehensive plan as well and
18:21:17 So i'll bring that up
18:21:32 There we go. so I put the required findings in light blue, and I put in from milestone and gravel application in here under Msg.
18:21:44 For miles, sand and gravel, and our tasks.
18:21:47 Then for this agenda item is to go through through and add more local context and findings from our review and public hearing from the planning commissioners.
18:22:04 And i'll be with you adding as much as I input as I can from the planning context, and I can type directly on the screen as we go through.
18:22:15 And so we're looking at jefferson county code at 1845 we'll begin with 0 8 0.
18:22:22 There's a number of findings and then they conclude with 0 5 0.
18:22:29 So These will look familiar to you. is there any questions about what we're doing, or how we're going through this where to go.
18:22:42 Okay, so thinking of the the record we have. are there?
18:22:51 Whether circumstances related to this proposed amendment which is the overlay zoning overlay, or the area in which it's located, substantially changed since the adoption of
the Jefferson county
18:23:03 comprehensive plan. The 2018 plan
18:23:10 Now first first impressions. No, I was we should think of hardware and do this.
18:23:19 It's going to be hard to on zoom have a random discussion.
18:23:25 Yeah, perhaps. Joel, you could make a recommendation for that item.
18:23:31 And then the client commissioners could revise it if they see they have to. or they may just say, that sounds good to us.
18:23:40 Okay.
18:23:55 Okay. So the circumstances in the Wall Lake extraction area have not changed since the 28 Dean comprehensive Plan Periodic Review. however.
18:24:07 Some of the things that have changed since 2,018, as we had the covid pandemic and a couple of places in here, we we probably want to mention that there are some interesting
supply chain issues that we've
18:24:21 gone through, as well as Jefferson County, experiencing 2 years.
18:24:31 A row of having the highest building permits that we've ever had.
18:24:33 So there's a lot of growth a lot of building going on.
18:24:39 So I would add that the and and i'm sorry for my typing.
18:24:48 I'm just gonna kind of blaze through it and maybe leave some typographical errors for later, if I might while you're writing us just to mention I think that's a regional demand
this is
18:25:02 regionally supplied Just a thought
18:25:20 Yeah of building material
18:25:29 So. any other circumstances that may have changed for us here. we go to the assumptions, then, upon which the Calendar County comprehensive plan is based.
18:25:40 Yup perfect, Thank you. How do I do?
18:25:51 This is this really pernet to this activity that we're going through right now.
18:26:01 It really has it impacted or changed per se the company is doing with the process that they're going through right now.
18:26:14 So what relevance is this in this statement we're in this document is that Well, to like to me, it sounds like.
18:26:27 The point is that there's an increase need for gravel in the county, How do we know that we don't?
18:26:35 We we were guessing that because of the permitting increase Specifically, the question is different, though this question is, Are there any significant changes in the underlying?
18:26:54 Related to the proposed amendment, and or the area that have changed substantially changed.
18:27:01 So since we've done the adoption of the Jefferson County comprehensive plan, I would say nothing substantially has changed.
18:27:13 The the projections for populations change are still within range and the area hasn't gone through any significant change. So I would say maybe that Covid 19 thing fits in there
somewhere, but I don't think it fits in
18:27:25 that sentence as an answer to that question Maybe We're going beyond the boundaries that are necessary for this Joel just keep it with it.
18:27:41 Keep it simple, stupid philosophy, and and just keep the first sentence.
18:27:44 It got good. Yeah, Okay, thank you i'll take this and cut it.
18:27:51 Yeah and let's see i'm gonna put put it somewhere here
18:28:07 Okay. So source assumptions to the comprehensive plan.
18:28:10 They are still valid is what i'm hearing
18:28:30 Okay, and i've taken milestone and Grabble comment on that.
18:28:37 There's it's the jefferson county comprehensive plan states that men and resources should be projected for future uses.
18:28:43 Which is true the proposed overlay will reserve this area for future mental resource extraction and again.
18:28:57 That's more probably more than we need we can just pick what you wrote.
18:29:03 The Commissioners are okay with that. let's just stick with the the assumptions of the comprehensive plan is still valid
18:29:19 You can go over the web. The proposed amendment.
18:29:24 Flex current widely held values. The residents county
18:29:42 Is recognized in our comprehensive plan, and Gma
18:29:58 I like it. Your answer
18:30:05 Good snap. sufficient. Yes.
18:30:19 Okay, now, we're talking about concurrency requirements so our comprehensive plan will look at our resources.
18:30:26 Population. The capacity to meet those needs with utilities, transportation, and other hands of levels of service.
18:30:37 So the proposed site Specific amendment meets concurrency.
18:30:41 Requirements for transportation does not adversely affect adopt levels of service standards for other public facilities and services, such as share fire, emergency medical service,
parks, fireflow, general governmental services.
18:30:54 And so with the finding or with the presentation and the application materials.
18:31:01 We've learned that they aren't going to be increasing the the rate of their extraction at least the number of trucks that they have.
18:31:10 They're just going into new area. they did make the comment that the last miner resource overlay area they exhausted the minute resources lot faster than they had anticipated,
because of the demand and so I think
18:31:28 with realizing that we're not at adding additional vehicles.
18:31:33 We're just continuing on at the rate that they can or that they have been that there's no impact to levels of service to transportations facilities.
18:31:47 Does that sound appropriate, I guess specific.
18:31:50 The the The findings was proposed. a size specific amendment meets, because currency requirements for transportation in is not atversely affect other services.
18:32:11 So what I've got so far here is no impact to level of service to transportation facilities or impacts other services.
18:32:30 The proposed
18:32:32 The proposed site. Specific amendment is consistent with the goals, policies, and implementation strategies of the various elements of Jefferson County Company plan.
18:32:40 So those elements would be our land use our natural resources element.
18:32:49 Maybe economic development element. that would they referenced for this proposal.
18:32:56 Anything inconsistent that you have found and i've started out saying, there are no material inconsistencies between the comprehensive plan.
18:33:08 The Growth Management Act and countywide planning policy sounds great It's good, sound deck.
18:33:17 Sound good things. Okay, ,
18:33:32 Okay, So triple I. The proposed site. Specific amendment will not result in probable signature.
18:33:42 Adverse impacts. This is Cbo language to the county's transportation network, capital facilities which are like sewer utilities, parks, environmental features that cannot be
mitigated and will not place uncompensated
18:34:00 burdens upon existing or planned service capabilities.
18:34:05 And so the nature of the project is to remove the mineral resource and reclaim, and keeping the underlying forest zoning in place
18:34:27 Yeah.
18:34:32 This is a mouse. Sand and gravel is referring to project specific.
18:34:37 Cfo Review will be done later, but I think we can say from our findings that we do did not find a significant adverse impact.
18:34:53 In fact, we, in our noticing of the project, said from community development that it is a Dns.
18:35:02 Or does not significantly, adversely impact these these factors here.
18:35:12 So I'll take it it's a man here we can kick around
18:35:43 Isn't unmitigated probable significant adverse impacts a significant amount of what can we just say unmitigated Impacts Let's get back to that you finish the sends I I agree
with you
18:36:01 Mike. But let him finish. Yeah, I I put that in there because it's cbo language
18:36:13 Yes, more words, information, couple of facilities, utilities, parks.
18:36:19 And yeah.
18:36:30 Get my mouse to work here. Yeah.
18:36:43 You are. Did environment environmental features.
18:36:52 You got one more utilities, parks, and environmental features.
18:36:59 He already has environmental Ps: impacts on the environment.
18:37:03 Yeah, switches, environmental features, transportation, capital facilityilities and park Isn't that it?
18:37:17 Yes.
18:37:18 Okay and unmitigated problem. So you want to keep that, Joel.
18:37:23 That odd praising the unmitigated, probable, significant, adverse impacts.
18:37:30 You mentioned that a sequel language Yeah, this is it's responding to Cbo language here, but we can show them it.
18:37:38 I'm saying it on mitigated impacts Okay, sure is good.
18:37:47 We could add something about no more truck traffic and successful reclamation No.
18:37:53 No. gave a simple alright alright in the case of a site specific amendment which we have here to the land use mapped, which we're rating and overlay the zoning category that
the subject parcels are
18:38:06 physically suitable for the requested land designation and dissipated land use development which we would evaluate for access utilities, and compatibility.
18:38:18 Those 3. so
18:38:25 Yes, yes, and yes.
18:38:43 Have you saved this Joel: yeah, before I get too far.
18:38:54 Okay, Okay, So the proposed site specific amendment will not create pressure to change the land.
18:39:00 Use designation of other properties, unless the change of land use destination for other properties is in the long term interests of the county as a whole, and I would start
out by saying absolutely,
18:39:15 The current zoning is appropriate
18:39:30 A minute resources and the underlying commercial for us
18:39:46 Let me will be preserved
18:39:51 And
18:39:57 This is compatible. When you, with surrounding go ahead, uses
18:40:15 Now the proposed site specific amendment does not materially affect That means have something substantial or directly affecting the land.
18:40:25 Use and population growth and projections that are the bases basis of the comprehensive lan
18:40:31 Should that be the basis B a s as opposed to bases, so
18:40:44 The proposal will be affecting the or will be serving this increase in development activity.
18:40:56 It is serving the the growth of the county but as we'll probably address here in a minute.
18:41:06 Our county is growing at an anticipated growth rate, and so the project proposal is not seen to be driving population growth projections, but responding to it by providing the
material that the county would need for its projected
18:41:27 growth. Matt Matt, It it seems like this might be a good place to mention that mitigation of the former site is relevant, because, it's a way of saying that the overall mining
area is not really gonna increase per
18:41:46 Se. because there will be the restoration app the reclamation happening it.
18:41:56 It just seems that's a service to the county that's worth mentioning, maybe in in the spot
18:42:31 That effect
18:42:51 We know the answer to this one If it's in an unincorporated urban growth area.
18:42:56 It will not materially affect the adequacy available.
18:42:59 Urban facilities, and we get yes, or maybe more appropriately.
18:43:17 The proposed amendment is consistent with the Growth Management Act.
18:43:21 Carry white planning policy for Jefferson County, and any other applicable jurisdictional policies or agreements in any other local State or Federal laws.
18:43:30 Yes.
18:43:56 Now the next would be the recommendation let's take take a look, and there's a few more in o 5 o that. We tack on the end here, where the growth and development has envisioned
in the comp plan is occurring faster
18:44:08 or slower, or failing to materialize Our Ofm growth rate is about 1% county wide.
18:44:15 This is consistent with the comprehensive plan milestone and gravel.
18:44:22 Say there's been a larger than anticipated market for construction aggregates in the local markets due to generalized growth in the area.
18:44:30 Which is why they want to increase but I don't think that's the questionable to this question sounds like you're a so is the capacity of the county to provide services diminished
or
18:44:45 increased. I made a comment with port panel urban growth, area waste and wastewater facility.
18:44:52 County will be increasing its ability to to provide services for growth and development, so that rather than a diminished capacity, we're increasing our ability to serve growth
and development.
18:45:04 The connection with this project is an increased demand for aggregate, for construction.
18:45:11 Good place for that. Okay? where there's sufficient urban land is designated in zone to meet projected demand and need.
18:45:20 Comprehensive plan demonstrates that there's sufficient land zone to meet the project objective demand.
18:45:25 We do have our population and and dwelling unit holding capacity analysis, saying we we do have s sufficient land.
18:45:39 Any other comment there. Okay, whether any of the assumptions upon which the plan comprehensive plan is based are no longer found to be valid. and I think we've already answered
that above that the comprehensive.
18:45:56 Plan is still relevant. we haven't noted anything that needs to be changed.
18:46:19 Okay. Good work.
18:46:20 Okay, Good. work. I'll take this out of here alright yeah.
18:46:29 Any changes in countywide attitudes, necessitating amendments to the goals of the comprehensive plan.
18:46:34 Never basic values embodied in our vision statement we didn't.
18:46:38 Okay, Yeah. my initial response. Jefferson County is known for high quality mental resources, additional mental resources, additional mineral resource areas or area identification
and overlays would be appropriate as discussed in the comprehensive
18:46:57 plan.
18:47:10 Does that work. we're not I I realize that we're kind of off the attitude responsive kind of white attitudes.
18:47:21 But I think our attitude in the county, and then our comprehensive plan is Jefferson County is a best gravel on earth.
18:47:31 Well and more directly. we didn't hear anything from the public that said that the attitudes had changed significantly.
18:47:41 Any changes in circumstances that dictate the need for this amendment supply. like initial responses.
18:47:54 Supply of sand and gravel may be important locally in Jefferson County.
18:47:56 There have been supply chain issues associated with Covid.
18:48:00 19 building material supply been affected. Here again, we could take this Covid all right.
18:48:16 And Last, at last we're at the end whether inconsistencies exist between the comprehensive Plan and Growth Management Act, the comp plan and category planning policy for Jefferson
county and again it's the same
18:48:31 answer as above, there are no material and consistencies between the Comp Plan growth, management, acting, account, planning policy.
18:48:39 The same same question. So here we have yeah responses to the required findings.
18:48:48 And i'm gonna click save on here and Then format it into a letter for board accounting commissioners.
18:48:57 Are there anything any particular recommendations that you want to highlight and I'm thinking of the last time we did.
18:49:07 This was for the temporary housing. facilities where your recommendation was, Let's take a look at this in a year, and come up with process for amending this.
18:49:20 If we need to let's see if this works and that that was brought forward anything like that for mineral resource lands.
18:49:30 I I might throw in here just because since I from my bully pulpit here Jefferson County could we have identified in our things that we would like to do if we had time, and money
is to do another review of
18:49:47 where these resources are, and get out ahead of it a little bit more.
18:49:54 We could do a better job of finding and identifying miner resources up ahead.
18:49:59 But other than that, I can't think of any particular recommendations for this project, unless we want to focus on some particular aspect of it.
18:50:09 Yup cool. Oh, well, i'd like to do is have a vote to approve the findings. and then we can discuss the letter. if you want to add anything to the letter discuss those separately.
18:50:26 So could have a motion to approve the findings of fact on the upward.
18:50:33 That motion is that Kevin in second from Florida. Laura.
18:50:42 Thank you. actually was Ld. and the all the sect. Delley Second: Okay. good.
18:50:46 Got him. Is there any additional discussion i'll pull the commissioners to approve?
18:50:56 Is approved or abstained from approval of the findings effect.
18:50:59 Arlene Kevin approve Cynthia.
18:51:05 True. Yeah, approve Lorna approve. Ld: prove Mike approve.
18:51:18 And Richard also approved. So we have one, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8 kr.
18:51:23 Chris approved. Oh, Chris is here go in the meeting, and Chris is here, so it's 9.
18:51:30 Oh, oh, enam's approval and in the past on the letter we've sometimes we've often done this or DCD.
18:51:42 We'll create the letter, and and then the chair will review the letter .
18:51:49 Reflects the the wishes of the planning commission and and go that way instead of having another meeting agenda item.
18:51:55 Is that all right with the Commissioners? I see. Nods: Yeah.
18:52:00 Are there any any things that the Commission would like to add?
18:52:05 The letter aside from what we've already discussed here in the finding, I think, communicating that the planning Commission will be interested in the application process, and
you know what happens into the future I don't think that that's
18:52:22 really a strong message to the Commissioners that were concerned about something, but it is. I think it's a statement of fact.
18:52:31 I think we will be interested to watch that application process I I don't know if that's useful or not that I mean, if we want to, as individuals that's one thing but planning
commission doesn't have
18:52:47 any over several applications i'm clear. about that so what do you think is since since you watched the last stick of that or if the planning commission is an interest.
18:52:58 So that's fine. Hey, Joe, you can strike it I do I do think that Joel's comment about identifying resources.
18:53:08 As a way of anticipating development and resource extraction.
18:53:16 It is a good one to just comment. on. can may I say something. that's the that Joe, was just entering the last comment, Christine, Chris Let them get caught up
18:53:49 Go ahead. Are you ready? got Chris? yeah i'm I apologize for being light to the meeting?
18:53:55 But I did spend 4Â h getting a tour of miles the other day and learned a lot about you know the extraction and the the reclamation and things, and I I have I don't know what
You've already
18:54:14 discussed. but It was very interesting and I was actually very impressed with the mitigation that they're doing so.
18:54:22 I don't know if that was discussed already? or not Are there any any comments Then we want to add to the letter?
18:54:32 Besides the work identification of Resources County? Why, God, identification in inventory as well.
18:54:43 Is that the other thing you want to do
18:54:49 Yeah, here, Kevin : Oh, is Matt? Okay, Yeah, I wanted to offer something.
18:54:59 I know that we got a report about me with the tribe, and visiting there, and
18:55:09 I know there were some specific recommendations they had and i'm not sure how that might have changed after their meeting.
18:55:16 But I guess if I were to propose something to include it would be maybe a even just a loose statement of support, for, you know, encouraging the Commissioners to listen closely
to what the tribe has to say and and maybe
18:55:37 the company for meeting with the tribe. so much
18:55:49 The second part of that was see, I I would say.
18:55:55 We need to include whatever it is the tribe had to say.
18:55:57 I mean simply throw out there in the tribes. What they had to say was nice.
18:56:04 I guess number one would be culverts right but there's a couple of things that they had specifically but it's not all resolved yet exactly what can be done, or should be done.
18:56:16 Mix developing, so that's why I propose something more general, you'll take the culverts out, but we don't.
18:56:24 We don't know those are really involved. in the in the Yeah, they're outside of the area that That's right.
18:56:32 We just keep it right. Keep pretty general. And, Matt, you had a comment about Miles itself.
18:56:38 You thought they were responsive to the tribes. Is that what you said?
18:56:40 I think so, may not? It seems like it's worth mentioning yeah, at Hmm.
18:56:48 It was certainly a good neighbor attitude. Yeah.
18:56:55 I walked Miles Land with tribal members this week, and I can tell you what they discussed.
18:57:02 If you were, wanna hear not not right now.
18:57:10 And looks like again. We have some comments there. anything else we wanted to.
18:57:14 I I just have a comment on that sentence encourage commissioners for what the tribes have to say.
18:57:21 Isn't a complete sense. Yeah, this is kind of firm, or capturing the to listen to what the or to pay specific attention to you know.
18:57:43 Yeah, Can I comment on that? Yeah, please, Mike?
18:57:48 I think you have a documented source, a recording of what the 2 tribal members discussed and asked about.
18:57:58 I think that it was not a long dissertation by either one of them, and I think that they were focused in what their responsibilities of, or understanding of responsibilities
were in this issue.
18:58:09 Why don't you just go back and listen to those 3Â min excerpts?
18:58:15 Because there's 2 of them and you can get a gist of what they specifically said, because I thought what they did ask for was reasonable.
18:58:23 And they were very good questions, and also I think the sand and gravel folks.
18:58:29 We're quite accommodating and responding to them. So I I think that you've got everything there, and you can get the gist of the conversation instead of us trying to figure
out what actually said we're laid upon on
18:58:41 that actually had the recordings to to look upon or listen upon.
18:58:49 I think this this is kind of what Matt was trying to avoid.
18:58:52 Be specific, more jet. The The way that Matt suggested it was to have a broader comment that we should respect the tribes views, and the Commissioners know those views.
18:59:03 They hear them too. Well, I understand that. but what happens if this goes to our county commissioners, and they they say well, what specifically were they addressing and I
don't think both both of them were concerned about the the waterways.
18:59:20 That go through there, and if we were if miles signed and gravel was going to put the land back together the way it's supposed to be after use, and that that was the response
on that So there was those 2 components on
18:59:34 that, did you see? Yeah, but you all just real, he suggested. Insert. See?
18:59:41 Comment letters, and those are available with the county conditions. What were they letters, or were they?
18:59:49 3Â min comment that's my letters right him. Thank you.
18:59:55 Thank you, I could I can share more of my notes from what they said at the meeting. but my concern is that it might be old news at this point, because there's been a visit since.
I think Jules covered it by having that
19:00:07 That's fine. it, rick excellent thank you like We're about .
19:00:16 Thanks for bringing that up. I appreciate that Well, commissioners also it's done this this zoom thing.
19:00:24 I I see hands waiting better than I see little little yellow hands raised so by don't see your hand raised Well, my cage with this little yellow hands. anyway.
19:00:36 So are there any other additional comments before we leave this topic?
19:00:42 Okay, So Joel. you will generate a letter and Then i'll take a look at it and see if it reflects what we've heard tonight, and I can sign it we can what's your head from there
Okay, this
19:00:57 was done by acclamation. Then then I guess it's okay.
19:01:03 I guess we could vote on that. You wanna do want to vote to authorize the shared assignment.
19:01:09 We want to just your back. Automation sounds like acclamation to me.
19:01:17 Okay, I don't hear anybody say no so we'll call it good.
19:01:26 Yeah, that gets us to item 9. Oh, of our agenda for today, and that is discussion regarding planning, commission meeting, frequency, content and work plan.
19:01:39 And Joel has will hand out for this let Jolie the talk discussion.
19:01:49 Okay, So i'm sharing my screen. Now and this is in response to some discussion from September.
19:01:57 Seventeenth planning commission retreat. The concern that we were discussing was in regard to the number of meetings held in number of meetings cancelled, and the issues that
are created by canceling meetings which might be
19:02:16 defined as first kind of this slowdown, and then rush and hurry up by the planning commission to hurry to pass something.
19:02:29 Also how it creates some discontinuity between planet commission and outreach to your your citizenry.
19:02:41 And creating communication misdeps or or trying to keep pickle up to date with what is happening happening when it then it doesn't happen
19:02:54 And so I was talking with Josh about this. of now have 2 meetings per month, the first and third Wednesday each month.
19:03:05 What if we look at the idea of having the first meeting of the month?
19:03:12 Firmly established, and a full course meal of again.
19:03:17 Agenda items, and then We could either have the second meeting of the month, the third Wednesday
19:03:27 As an ad hoc meeting there. If we need it or if that creates scheduling, issues to have a ready-made agenda for that second meeting of the month which could be some projects
that we're working on
19:03:47 long term projects that we want to get to but don't always have time, and this does address some comments made by planning commissioners on on the retreat, saying that well,
if we if we've had a cancelled meeting we could be working
19:04:08 on some of our committee work, or or some of this.
19:04:13 These big items that we don't have time to work on here.
19:04:16 We've got some time. So this could take any number of forms of whether we enhance our committees and or whether we have some back of the pocket type of agendas items, or projects
that we're working on on that second kind
19:04:38 of the second meeting of the month could be more so that's this is how i've articulated this
19:04:54 So this Results of the planning commission's input of This
19:05:01 Our 2 meetings too frequent to complete our work or do we need more meetings.
19:05:07 Sometimes we've like you've just had a special meeting on legal out of records.
19:05:13 Is it frequent enough to complete our work so we're first point of the decision.
19:05:17 Make sure Matrix is looking at 2 meetings a month. How is this working for us?
19:05:23 And Then the next item B should dCD make the first meeting of the month. Be kind of our standing project meeting.
19:05:30 That's always held, and the second meeting be more ad hoc maybe more flexible in its agenda, or break out into committees or subcommittees.
19:05:41 I mean or canceled all together. if we do need to cancel the meeting, See?
19:05:48 Because of some circumstances in a project things haven't come together.
19:05:53 Yet should that meetings, like the second meeting of the month, be replaced with an agenda for subcommittee work?
19:06:01 This subcommittee is always add some administrative burden.
19:06:07 But maybe the Planning Commission can take a larger role in administering subcommittee meetings.
19:06:13 After we've agreed on a scope of work together and make agendas include minutes and report out to the group.
19:06:24 Taking a a more thorough and administrative process with our subcommittees, and we do and i'll go to the last one.
19:06:36 Now i'll do some other background so item D staff time to coordinate with the planning Commission is going to be reduced until we hired someone to help with planning commission
business.
19:06:49 This planning commission clerk higher, or if that doesn't work out our planning clerk spinning additional time with planning commission or planning clerk is the higher that
we also have open what are the
19:07:04 planning commission's, expectations, and capacity to do more self administration and self monitoring, with account account ability of members getting the homework done, moving
forward on projects sticking to a scope of work.
19:07:21 And so some of the background of this, too, and and some of the items that I was bringing to September seventeenth treat that we didn't get to is that Director butler, and I
have sat down and looked at
19:07:40 some goals for the planning commission, and I, as your liaison, have some tasks and goals myself of how I want to facilitate and assist the planning Commission in becoming more
informed, as We have with the
19:07:59 consent, agenda and more able to understand the process more easily.
19:08:08 Pull together findings and recommendations for the Board to give the board better information for their decision making, and I I sat down with Jeremy Hall to share that with
him.
19:08:25 Just recently, after the after the planning commission retreat.
19:08:30 Just to to let him know we've got some we've got some background that we're trying to work on.
19:08:37 And Sometimes it feels like we're getting set back on some of the goals that we have.
19:08:43 But this creates this intersection of how community development sees our role working with the planning commission.
19:08:52 And we heard quite a bit on September seventeenth at the Retreat, how the Planning Commission wants to work on things that may not currently be supported by community development
for one reason or another.
19:09:06 And also the planning commission, or some commissioners, expressed an interest in working directly with the board and
19:09:12 That kind of takes the planning commission out of the realm of assisting community development.
19:09:19 So we're we're still working on our roles, and how we act responsibly and and efficiently.
19:09:30 So this is a good chunk of of agenda to bite off here.
19:09:38 I think of looking at our meetings. so the frequency and the format. and so i'm going to turn it back to the chair and facilitate kind of how you you might think about this
question of should we change it
19:09:56 up little bit as far as format and and number of meetings, and how we identify our subcommittee work better.
19:10:07 I want to underscore that we need to agree on a work plan, and we need to work on things that are relative to the Board.
19:10:18 And so there is a limit to this kind of setting you free on a on an issue and saying, Go work on that.
19:10:28 We We need to be working on things that on the board is directing us to do so.
19:10:34 That's my piece, and I mean look forward to the to this discussion. Well, thank you.
19:10:39 Drill i'm i'm gonna jump back to the beginning that's 50.
19:10:43 I see if I want to make a comment first. I like to focus it for for the first.
19:10:48 Probably discussion focus on the number of meetings. this is near and dear to my heart.
19:10:54 And one of the things you said, Joel, beginning, was that this fast?
19:10:59 Hurry up and wait. thing was a problem not enough meeting.
19:11:02 My understanding is the problem of the Board County Commissioners charging DCD.
19:11:08 With things with unrealistic timelines not so much that they they're not beings.
19:11:14 The plan can make you deal with them. so I don't Think having more meetings is going to help the issue of Hurry up and wait.
19:11:20 So let's take that off the table you know as far as it's a number of meetings.
19:11:27 My strong preparations is to have have full meetings so that would be definitely in favor of having a first of the month meeting as our regular meeting.
19:11:38 This is it's, in fact, in the past this has been the case for the planning commission, and then, when times are busy, we have a second meeting so i'll stop there and and just
you had your hand up I remember we used to
19:11:53 have one meeting month, and then we got busy with the comprehensive plan, or one of the other big things, and and it became clear that one wasn't enough, and I I understand
in the past before my tenure that that had been you
19:12:06 know. Sometimes it was one a month, and sometimes, too, I think, inherent in it.
19:12:13 When I think about the question of how would we, as a planning commission, take advantage of some of that off time inherent in that to me, or implied in that to me is a question
in my mind.
19:12:28 About if we have an interest. If the Planning Commission has an interest in in having meetings that are more focused on some of our sort of off off the books interests, how
would we organize that?
19:12:44 Would we sort of make an application to the planning commission with some detail about what we would like?
19:12:51 That meeting to entail, and and then, if the planning of commission agreed, then it would be sitting in the hopper waiting to be expressed.
19:13:00 But i'll i'll set that question aside cause it's important to me, but I I think I would rather we schedule 2 weekends or 2 meetings of months, and have to cancel then try to
on very
19:13:19 short notice come up with a new meeting time as we have had to that's really hard, and it's it's easier for me to to let you know to have a meeting canceled than it is to all
of a sudden have
19:13:34 a meeting in 3 days that I have to rearrange my entire life to attend.
19:13:39 So those are my thoughts. I I see you i'll email and ask you'll comment first, Julie.
19:13:45 I. My understanding was that there'll be 2 meeting schedules every month, and the second would be canceled.
19:13:51 Why not need Is that correct? Oh, that's correct That's ?
19:13:56 That's much easier. Then the question would be How How do we cancel in in sufficient time.
19:14:02 So that it's not a burden that's a that's a detail arnie we have.
19:14:11 So I i'm not it not arguing with any of these points. I think that Richard and Cynthia were accurate.
19:14:19 I would say, though, that if there are goals and plans that have been discussed with Director Butler, and that that should be part of this conversation.
19:14:33 The the the so is I don't see it again, I think what we stated was that there was a meeting with Director Butler, and plans and goals for the planning Commission discussed,
and perhaps relate to to you
19:14:54 Richard, and I think that those should be shared with us.
19:15:00 And and credible planning process. bye. Yeah, Joel: go ahead.
19:15:09 Yeah, Yeah, I should. I should not make it sound so mysterious.
19:15:10 But it was largely what we brought to the planning commission.
19:15:14 In our February retreat those 2 days. We want to give you better information.
19:15:22 We. We want to be more timely in giving you information.
19:15:26 We want to make your work more efficient. and We want you to complete your work, and then
19:15:38 I'm just trying to think of missing something it is that we wanted. We're we're trying to improve our technique.
19:15:47 All of us in having functional meetings and full and active and productive meetings, so that's those are the goals.
19:15:56 And so, as This was a couple of years ago, Brand asked me, Do you want to be lays on with planning commission?
19:16:04 I said, Well, I certainly would, I think, get revitalized and excited, and and do some some good work together.
19:16:17 Frankly, having the retreat on september seventeenth being canceled halfway through, was a real blow to me, feeling like i'm not doing an effective job.
19:16:31 And didn't understand why you would want to leave half through the meeting, and I, you know maybe i'm just don't understand
19:16:43 That made me feel like we've we've got more work to do
19:16:46 There's something not functioning here. and so that's my role is to help this through, and I don't mean to sound like we've got a secret agenda Frankly, we're not always functional
and
19:17:01 community development or planning commission have room to grow and do a better job.
19:17:09 So that's why i'm here. and and this discussion now is responding to what we did talk about in our September seventeenth retreat.
19:17:21 So. thank you. I see a map that Lorna had a comment.
19:17:24 I think first I was just really gonna say, just from a pure scheduling perspective that I agreed with, Would Cynthia, This is better to have things on the calendar and then
find out their cancel then try to squeeze
19:17:41 something on with shorter notice, so I as I said that's just about scheduling.
19:17:48 It's easier to work at that way. Matt I wanna I would like to speak to a couple of the details that have been mentioned about the goals from the director.
19:18:03 There's a bunch of goals and a bunch of things that have been implemented already.
19:18:08 But I want to point out from my perspective, one of the things that Director Butler has brought of of great significance is level of professionalism.
19:18:26 That instructs us, but pretty much based on how things happen, and in larger jurisdictions.
19:18:34 And and he's adapting his professional skills to our community, and and essentially coaching us, or at least you know it's fine that way.
19:18:44 When he was encouraging Our subcommittee to follow i'm reading here to follow the agreed Okay, and including agendas and minutes, and reporting out regularly, was the basis
of him trying to professionalize our operation to
19:19:02 get results out of what we were doing. The term he used was, What are we delivering to the community?
19:19:10 When he wanted our report, he said, we have to tell people what we're delivering.
19:19:14 He was very concerned that we were following. the Work order is given by the Commissioners and kind of central to all. this is the tier of workflow, where we are advising tCD
and working with DCD.
19:19:30 And then there sending it to the commissioners very directly. whereas when we wanna speak just to the commissioner's minutes, It's not nice, but it's kind of outside of the
the professionalized workflow so I I would love
19:19:50 to see us authorize as many subcommittees as necessary, and structure workflow to get deliverable results, even if they're small, to have some venue for those to be shared,
if nothing else, just to
19:20:04 honor the people that have done the work. Yeah, Kevin, do you have a comment?
19:20:13 Yeah good I I I first I want to thank Joe. I You're working very hard on something, and I didn't want you to feel like that last meeting on the seventeenth in oneing to to bail
about
19:20:29 halfway through that particular meeting. But for me the problem was is that I anticipated Border County Commissioners Director Brendan, to be there because a lot of my issues
were going to be directed towards them and how we
19:20:47 can work better, you know, between DCD. the Board County Commissioners and the planning commission.
19:20:53 When you know we we look at constantly being told hey?
19:20:58 You're on a deadline you gotta get this out but we don't get 8 out of 17 meetings because DCD.
19:21:07 Staff doesn't have time or resources to do the work you know, to keep us moving on something like the moreatorium.
19:21:12 You know it. It was out there for a year and I know a lot of work went into it, and a lot of it's behind the scenes that we on the Planning Commission don't really see?
19:21:22 But the fact that you know we're making special meetings and cramming this through at the last minute, and only in the last couple of weeks, you know, getting some of the meat
and potatoes of this after 50 other weeks
19:21:36 of of waiting to to kind of really wrap ourselves around.
19:21:40 It was just frustrating, you know we were taking up a a special meeting trying to get together on how we can work better together. and yet half of the people that you know needed
to be there.
19:21:53 Weren't there, that was my you know understanding of you know hey?
19:21:55 Let's just you know. Call this one quits here. where you know we get, we, you know, finished up some things dealing with our notes on how the planning Commission is gonna work.
19:22:08 But you know I just, and we've complained about this for many years now it used to be.
19:22:16 We couldn't get minutes and it was difficult to have a single train of thought from one meeting to the next, because we didn't have any notes to to go back over.
19:22:23 Really and and you know we were 6, 9 months out, you know, on our meeting.
19:22:29 And you guys have done a great job of getting back on that.
19:22:31 So thank you for that. The I agree, and I like your comment about hey?
19:22:37 The first meeting of the month. It is more of a set in stone. Let's figure out what's going on. and then, if we decide we need the second meeting this month, because we got
lots of work to do that great I kind of like that idea
19:22:48 as opposed to sometimes going a month and a half to 2 months without one.
19:22:53 It just helps keep I think workflow moving I'm.
19:23:01 I'm still not real, you know happy about some of the decisions that are being made about the proper funding of the department.
19:23:07 And again that's my issue with the board county commissioners and with the account administrator to see that you guys have the resources to then be able to allow us to do our
job.
19:23:18 I I don't be I don't like being asked repeatedly.
19:23:23 Wait. Wait, wait, now, get it done Tomorrow and that's what I feel like is happening to us.
19:23:28 So let's let's you know work on that kind of a more consistent workflow, and again.
19:23:38 You know. I I don't know what the board accounting missions are talking about for us to be doing, you know, in the next 6 months.
19:23:44 I know we talked about it a little bit at the meeting on the seventeenth.
19:23:47 Yeah, I wanna hear it from them. I want to see from them, and I want to tell them what i'm seeing, because what I saw with this latest legislation was a reduction of usable
area in the county for single family
19:23:59 residents. you know folks to live and and comments were made Well, we shouldn't be developing in the county, but there's so many things going on in the county with work and
resources that we need to have folks out there and we don't need to
19:24:12 be taking What I think are single-family residential lots off of the roles simply because they were made a long time ago.
19:24:24 And then saying that well, if you own 2 lots, you need to put the 2 together, so you only get one.
19:24:30 Now, I mean, this is going backwards into creating fewer lots and you know.
19:24:37 I don't know how many what the total number is what you know out of those 1,900 how many were not actually build will come off the top of that.
19:24:46 But we live in accounting with 80 something percent forest plan we don't have a lot of area, and we are not in Urban County.
19:24:55 So you know you're work with the state to to kind of address.
19:25:02 Some of those issues is is great and i'll be interested to hear more about it.
19:25:05 But we got a lot of issues and I don't see as moving in a direction where we're encouraging
19:25:14 The building industry to assist us. you know landlords are great but we've never built one.
19:25:22 I don't believe we've talked about it I mean we had this issue 10 years ago on the West Side.
19:25:30 When we were over there, having meetings and talking with them people were hey?
19:25:34 I can't buy 40 acres to build a single family residence.
19:25:37 I don't have the money to buy 40 acres and then build a house.
19:25:41 We've got the oc out there we've got the school district out there had to build a own houses, And now we just take in some of those smaller subdivisions in oil.
19:25:49 City and say, Nope, knowing those are gonna work because they're pre 1,969, and maybe some of them will come back, you know.
19:25:56 But it just seems like there are a lot of things that are happening that are restricting us from doing our work based on staffing and and resources, but also that we're kind
of come backwards.
19:26:11 And why is helping people be able to afford housing that's all Cynthia, I do next
19:26:25 I wanted to agree with what Kevin said about what happened on the the day of the retreat, and just add a very simple detail that to me was probably the most important detail
which was when we scheduled that retreat we had
19:26:42 a an a sample agenda, and that sample agenda specifically included.
19:26:50 3 Bo Board of County commissioners attending, and the director attending, and we never got an updated agenda for that day.
19:26:57 So imagine our surprise when we showed up on a Saturday morning, and without a an updated agenda, and found out that none of those people were going to be there, and that we
had not been notified, and that there was actually a
19:27:13 discussion, Josh said, about possibly canceling the retreat and we weren't included in the discussion.
19:27:20 So that was the failure to me was, had we known, we could have made a decision as a planning commission, whether we wanted to hold that retreat at another date or go ahead or
something.
19:27:33 But to me to show up and find out that not only did we not have an agenda.
19:27:39 We hadn't gotten one, an an updated agenda ever again after we originally set the date, and we had that sample agenda, but that a significant part of what we were going to do
was have had been eliminated
19:27:54 from the agenda that we had never gotten and we didn't know.
19:27:57 So to me that's a small piece but it's a really important piece, and that's why we felt strongly, Mike.
19:28:06 Yeah, and i'm not gonna hash it out and reiterate what everybody just said, because I agree with that.
19:28:15 And my main concern, though, is is what kevin did say earlier, is, we had meetings after meetings after meetings, after meetings canceled over the years, and then all of a sudden,
it's we have to have multiple
19:28:30 meetings basically basis, because we're in a project and we got to get this done.
19:28:35 Now. you know I I was in business for many years.
19:28:41 I never ran my business that way and if I did my employees, would quit It's not conducive to the people that that you have volunteering for this organization to be productive
in that sense.
19:28:54 And I think We've all contributed quite deeply into making sure that this is successful organization, and over the years especially since Director Butler came in.
19:29:06 I've been very, very pleased that we are having more continuity with our meetings, so I would prefer to have the at least the first meeting a month always, and get something.
done, and now we're running into a situation tonight as
19:29:20 an example where we've had a very lengthy discussion on many things, and we still have another item on the agenda.
19:29:27 I think next, what is it? The nineteenth may be better for us to approach that at that He wants to?
19:29:36 Commissioners want to work on it tonight, that's fine we have to go.
19:29:41 I have another commitment i'm sending my wife off to California.
19:29:46 So i'm i've been pushing this to this point here, but continuity is the best way to get things done with this organization, and i'm sorry I wasn't at your retreat.
19:29:58 But I had other commitments for that also. yeah and So anyway, I think you're doing a good job, but I think we can do a better job with this meeting time.
19:30:08 So i'm gonna have to say to all of you Good night, Thank you, Thank you, Mike.
19:30:12 Schedule. I I do I think we've had a good discussion of these recommendations.
19:30:19 The take home message that I heard was that, we should schedule one meeting a month, we schedule, 2 meetings a month.
19:30:27 The prime meeting being the first use. first 20 of the month and if there's a need for a second meeting.
19:30:34 We hold that meeting. but if it's castle the need to inform the client commission as early as possible.
19:30:44 That will not be held. I think i'm gonna leave with that for this discussion.
19:30:50 No, I would like to. Is there any other comments?
19:30:54 Good cause we have one more agenda i'm I would I prefer to finish the this agenda item at this meeting.
19:31:01 If everybody's okay with that. Okay, everybody else is in September, it's up to the group.
19:31:08 If you have to leave, i'll leave as long as we have a forum left right now, we have a quorum, hey?
19:31:17 Hearing No, no objections We'll move to item 10 of our agenda bylaws approval, and all that list of the You leave the discussion here.
19:31:27 So last week you should have gotten and both a line in line out version of what you've already seen, with only a few changes.
19:31:39 One of them was in response to kevin's concern that he mentioned some confusing language in the section on in the report section about a minority report.
19:31:59 So in the 2 documents I sent out, I I reviewed that section.
19:32:04 I agreed with Kevin, and my solution that i'm proposing is to scratch the the second of the 3.
19:32:13 This is in the report section, which is section newly Section 14. I believe.
19:32:18 Yeah. used to be 15 now. it's 14
19:32:32 There you go. keep going. A planning Commission minority report would be submitted, submitted with a majority report.
19:32:40 So I just want to say so we're you're seeing the line in line out, and the only thing that's different in in this document from what you've seen before other than the fixes
we talked about is that I
19:32:50 scratched out this second of 3 paragraphs.
19:32:55 And I asked. I talked, asked Kevin to look at it and tell me whether he thought that solves the the inconsistency.
19:33:04 And Kevin. Did you want to say I think you said that it was okay, and I don't know if you had more to say about that.
19:33:12 No, I was fine with it. I It was just that timeline, fortunately. Yeah. and I I thought we that solved it otherwise. The clean copy is exactly what we discussed, and I made
the few changes that you all
19:33:28 suggested, and the only one that I I highlighted was this one paragraph that that solved.
19:33:37 I thought the problem and everything else should be the same. So, in terms of the work that Mike and I did, that I we have been bringing back to you
19:33:46 Repeatedly the the clean copy final draft from 9 30 reflects.
19:33:53 That work and I i'm ready to vote on it
19:34:02 Matt had more to say so i'll i'll hand over to Matt.
19:34:04 If there's no questions about what i've already. talked about, I think I, one way to address this would be to have a motion to approve the clean copy.
19:34:18 Have a seconded and then discuss and that's how i'd like to do it today.
19:34:21 So, if somebody please make a motion to approve the the bylaws that 50 has prepared.
19:34:27 Also moved That's lorna yeah sounds like kevin Okay, Is there any discussion
19:34:42 I guess. I could formally offer an amendment to do whatever is efficient.
19:34:50 I could take the temperature on what people think about what I wrote.
19:34:53 But first i'd like to ask joel what he thinks about what I wrote.
19:35:03 Is it actually correct? Is it in the spirit of what would be appropriate for the kind of document
19:35:20 Through the chair. I'll reply Yes, it is it's appropriate and I thought there might have been a correction.
19:35:34 Okay, Aicp: Yeah. Sorry about that. that's a mistake .
19:35:40 The American planning so it does state that we're not bound by strict adherence to the procedural doctrines.
19:35:48 I would say adherence to that parents of fairness doctrines.
19:35:53 Okay associated with judicial or causal review. and on the list we we operate in the spirit intention of public service and ethical framework
19:36:12 Right to a fair hearing. And yeah, yeah, everything is appropriate.
19:36:20 I might change adherence to procedural doctrines to be more specific to appearance of fairness.
19:36:27 Diet. I like. I like that, and I like saying Basically, my point is to say that this is important, that we're aware of what planners deal with and what professionals do with
what
19:36:43 The people we work with, how they a required to operate and we're also aware of why there required to operate that way, even though we're not required to and the reasons why?
19:36:57 Are, because it prevents problems. And so by letting everybody know that we intend to prevent problems.
19:37:09 It seems like a good thing for the public, and a good thing for the Commission.
19:37:14 Matt. I will note that the most the thing that really tips my scale on this was reading through the Mr. Sc.
19:37:28 Document. it's the same one, that joel sent out the one from a little while ago, and at the very end there it is at the very end of it.
19:37:38 It says nothing in this chapter, you know. Basically, it says nothing.
19:37:46 No matter what we say. everybody gets the right, to a fair hearing, and it just seems like that's where Washington State law is, and that's something that we need to know.
19:37:55 And we I always need to be fair whether or not We're bound by It sounds like we that we should.
19:38:06 You should make it make a motion to amend cynthia's document, and then we can second it, and we can discuss it.
19:38:14 So would you like to make a move. Motion may I just finish the sentence with one last the other reason why I wanted to do this is I feel it helps commissioners to be aware of
the open public meetings.
19:38:28 Act. So it's a way to the very forthright with new commissioners that they need to pay attention to that.
19:38:35 Okay, So yes, I'd, like to make a motion to to use this language with the with the slight edit that insight edits that Joel just made, which was replacing procedural with more
specific language about
19:38:52 appearance of fairness, and replacing the mistaken acronym.
19:38:57 If I believe that's correct okay is there a second
19:39:07 Yes, I'm, i'll second sorry is there. Discussion.
19:39:14 Cynthia. I First I had a question which is, where did you see this language going? Matt?
19:39:24 I I believe it should my my motion would be to put it in the place where it had been before.
19:39:35 It's a deleted section at this point so it just reinstate that section
19:39:43 Appearance of fairness in in in a late meeting.
19:39:48 I think this is a editorial issue, that perhaps, since the if if we actually approve the amendment, perhaps Cynthia Mac could work out where it goes, Cynthia.
19:39:58 So I have deep concerns about this, because if we re if we leave a section called Appearance of Fairness, my my suggested back to Matt.
19:40:08 You guys may have seen was to create a new section section 2 a new section 2.
19:40:17 Call it intention or ethics. I I I don't care either way, and to use one sentence of his proposal that listed the ethics document that he referred to
19:40:37 My reason was that I think the civil dev, the civil attorneys reason for getting rid of the appearance, affection, fairness, section is that it legally does not apply to us,
and so, by leaving it in there I understand
19:40:54 Matt is W. wanting to make a statement to the public that we care about ethics and fairness.
19:41:00 My concern is to actually call out a law that does not apply to us because we are not a quasi judicial.
19:41:08 Body is implying that we have an obligation to a law that we don't, and I think that was what the what the civil attorney was trying to get away from.
19:41:19 Do not promise that we would be obligated to a law that doesn't apply actually apply to us.
19:41:24 And now that was also one of my only points was that I wanted the legal review to just be sure that what we're adding back in, is, you know, passing the must be so.
19:41:39 Can you show my I I know we're in the middle of a discussion about matt's amendment proposal? But if you could show what mine is I wonder if that would be useful to the discussion?
19:41:53 Well, Cynthia I another way to do this is to have a boat on mass recommendation, and then either pass or don't, and if we don't pass it that we'll review yours.
19:42:04 How does that sound? I just want to deeply show me my concern that we would use the term appearance of fairness.
19:42:12 That seems just in correct alene Thank you I don't think this belongs in this document.
19:42:25 I think I just for all of those reasons that that Cynthia just said.
19:42:31 But I do think, if you want to have this be part of the document, that it would be better, as a preamble to the document.
19:42:41 Thank you, Kevin. Oh, I I like that idea. What are we gonna do?
19:42:47 Okay, What? she said Alright, Any further discussion on the the motion to amend the Cynthia document, hearing none, i'll pull the Commissioners say yes, No.
19:43:04 Before we before we do this, Do you feel like I should?
19:43:08 Would it be correct for me to accept friendly amendments from Kevin and Arlene?
19:43:16 I like to go ahead and built in the amendment What happens?
19:43:20 Okay, I can revisit. Oh, excuse me, Chair, but my concern would be that without defining where this goes, it might affect a vote
19:43:31 So if we, if we think it's going to be in section 14, called the appearance of fairness, we might vote one way if we think it's gonna be over yet to be written preamble we might
vote, another way.
19:43:45 So anybody gonna change their votes because of the editorial policy, since you'll change your vote, possibly So why don't we sit here and and figure out where it's gonna go
for before we boot on
19:43:56 it, and i'd also like to disconnect it from the title.
19:44:01 So the title can be anything. So I was asking before if we could.
19:44:10 I I know you wanted to have a vote but if if showing I I know you said. if we get rid if we vote on this, and it doesn't pass, then we can look at mine.
19:44:24 But I it feels like my proposal would help the discussion I don't know. i'll i'll stay out of it.
19:44:34 You guys the same time in terms of placement, and this he gets very complicated.
19:44:48 We can just vote now, and if it's approved it's approved. It's not then we can work on and changing it, and coming up with some of the document we'll see I want to get this
item off the
19:44:59 agenda for future meetings so let's let's. Go ahead and have a vote on mess proposal and see what happens as it stands as a stance in the in the in the best possible place you
could imagine
19:45:16 in the document unless somebody wants to make an amendment, because I asked it.
19:45:22 The what? Where are you? and match you put it and I didn't get an answer.
19:45:24 So we're going to go I just think that I I think if it's gonna go anywhere.
19:45:32 A preamble is probably better than anything, or under authority, where I suggested.
19:45:37 But I think it needs to be edited more heavily so I it's hard for me to say
19:45:46 I've been offering to accept a Friendly amendment from Arlene, and one from Kevin, the first one to do the placement with a different title and preamble format and the second
19:46:00 amendment friendly amendment i'm only going to accept just to have our decision be pending legal review.
19:46:09 I so move that we add your friendly amendment to the preamble, and that we then have a legal review.
19:46:18 Okay, You're good. with that cynthia is there a second. I don't think you need a second for friendly amendment.
19:46:28 You do? Okay, So we got a second from ld I think I can just accept it.
19:46:33 If i'm the move of the motion that's also too. there, there's there's actually no such thing as a friendly amendment in Robert's rules, so it would be more better to go more
formally
19:46:43 let's do a quick vote on the what I just said Okay, So we're now voting on the friendly amendment that was moved by Kevin.
19:46:50 And seconded by Ld. Arlene. Yes, to the amendment the amended amendment.
19:47:03 We're voting on on the changes recommended by you and Kevin click on that.
19:47:13 Yes, yes, okay. So yes, Arlene Kevin. Yes, Cynthia abstain.
19:47:21 Yes, Laura, I'm also abstaining so Cynthia did not say Yes.
19:47:30 I was at steam. I didn't hear right that was okay didn't get that.
19:47:42 Yes, Nora. Oh, you're you're breaking up Ld.
19:47:47 Yes, that was is here. Chris.
19:47:58 What do you think, you? what? Yes, for the the Kevin?
19:48:01 And changes. Yes, Matt gone, and all stain.
19:48:08 We have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 yeses, and 3 of stains.
19:48:13 It passes, you know I can vote on the amendment.
19:48:23 A minute proposed by Matt was moved by Matt and seconded by I don't remember who seated that one.
19:48:31 Yeah, by Kevin Okay, So we'll start that so Yes, if you approve the changes that rat Matt recommends to the Synthesis document or no, if you don't or Abstain Arlene I'm
19:48:48 Spain, Kevin. So this is a vote to now go back to his original.
19:48:56 No, this is 2 up to approve the amended version of match amendment.
19:49:05 You, Cynthia's document Okay, match recommendation with your changes and all these changes.
19:49:11 Yes, Cynthia, that's dame matt yes, Lorna no Ld.
19:49:24 No, Chris.
19:49:34 You're Chris, I can't hear you got unmute yourself.
19:49:41 Yes, mike's not here, richard golds no so we have 1, 2, 3, yes's 3 nose and 2 abstains.
19:49:55 A motion fails.
19:50:01 So we have one. so we still have if I if I my bookkeeping is right. We sell the motion on the floor to approve the bylaws that's been moved in seconded and there's any
19:50:20 additional discussion.
19:50:24 You know, pulling commissioners to approve the bylaws as to present it originally, but it is being copy.
19:50:31 Arlene. Yes, Kevin. Yes, Anthea. Yes, Matt, No, no, Laura.
19:50:44 Yes, Ld. Yes, Chris abstain, and Richard is Yes, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 yeses, and no one want to stay in.
19:50:58 It passes.
19:51:02 Thank you, everybody, for entertaining my idea. Yeah. And I I see my additional agenda items.