HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Transcript 2023-04-1917:32:30 When you call the call to order the April fifth.
17:32:51 Hmm!
17:32:50 No. Yeah. It's April nineteenth. This is the corrected on the web.
17:33:02 Just let me call the Order of April 19, meeting.
17:33:07 And I'll start the meeting with a roll call. I will say a name and tell me if you're here, Colleen.
17:33:14 Here!
17:33:15 Here!
17:33:26 Here!
17:33:19 Matt, here, Lorna, here. Ld, here, Chris Mike, let's see what Mike said.
17:33:32 He wouldn't be here any other call.
17:33:40 And I'm here, Richard. Okay. Hmm, alright.
17:33:44 Next I did. If you're under the approval of the agenda, anybody have.
17:33:49 Yeah, she said, Chris. She didn't say anything. Anybody have concerns about the agenda.
17:33:57 Besides the date. Now we're good to go there, and we have 2 sets of minutes to approve.
17:34:07 One is for March fifteenth, 2,02323, and I entertain a motion to approve the minutes.
17:34:16 This has been corrected with the the correction. This is the one that was corrected in terms of the.
17:34:24 The vote that didn't actually happen. Okay, this, this been revised.
17:34:31 I say, I know that the apologies for the consent agenda aspect. Yes.
17:34:40 There was a. It said that we approved a consent agenda by afflamation, but we did and that actually hasn't been fixed.
17:34:47 Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean the approval of the agenda.
17:34:50 Is should be on there, there should no longer be individual consent.
17:34:58 We have a motion to approve. One more seconds, any discussion. I'll pull the commissioners, if you approve, say I, if you don't say nay. If you have staying staying, Ali.
17:35:12 Hello!
17:35:16 Alright, Cynthia, I think this is online. I approve.
17:35:20 Yeah. Alright. Lorna. Hi, ld, right. Chris.
17:35:27 Alright!
17:35:29 Good. Hi! So it's unanimous.
17:35:34 We also have a set of minutes from the April fifth meeting.
17:35:43 Yeah, like a motion to approve those minutes. That's okay.
17:35:50 Did he move to proven any second?
17:35:55 Sure I'll second them.
17:35:57 Thank you. Hey? There! Any discussion?
17:36:04 And I'll pull the Commissioner. She can go. Yes, no, or abstain colleen.
17:36:08 Yes.
17:36:10 Kevin. I'm staying, Cynthia approved.
17:36:18 Matt. Yes, Laura abstain. Chris.
17:36:27 Yes.
17:36:29 Mike's not here, Richard. Yes.
17:36:45 Next agenda item is planning permission updates.
17:36:50 Are planning permission updates. Today, just wanted to let the rest of the plan engineers know that I talked to 2 of our board of County Commissioners this week.
17:37:01 I talked to highly in in the last week, I should say I talked to Heidi, and I talked to Greg about the general concerns.
17:37:12 My specific concerns in the general concerns about what's happening at the A Vcd.
17:37:15 E. I think they've given a lot of attention to that issue over the last week, and which I was glad to see, and I think they have a lot of balls in the fire to falls in the fire.
17:37:30 That's a mixture. Maybe that's appropriate.
17:37:34 Maybe there's a lot of balls in the fire to to try and address all those issues.
17:37:38 And I know everybody is working really hard to do that, too.
17:37:44 So I just wanted to let you know that I had extensive conversations with those.
17:37:48 Yeah, I always asked at the last meeting to compile citations.
17:37:54 In our in the Comp. Plan for some of the things that I pulled out, and I tried to use my judgment to select things which people which had listed some kind of feedback from the
group that maybe this was going out, and I deleted a lot of the extraneous stuff a lot of the extra
17:38:12 ones, contextual language, and put in citations what page it's on and what page it is in the Pdf, so once you have a pages in the Pdf, it's easy to make a hyperlink, and I sent
that out to the subcommittee and to
17:38:32 you share all believe and to department, and getting good feedback is nice I didn't hear much back, but I hope I did a good job of picking up the stuff that seemed to port to
the group and helpful to have his reference with Citations.
17:38:47 Nice, well, look good. You big deal coordinator Joel, on this.
17:38:51 Well, he's been busy, too. I didn't hear back, and so I that's everything's okay.
17:38:57 You know that it's a helpful progress he didn't ask me to do any more.
17:39:02 So, okay, good. I offered to cut one. Okay.
17:39:07 The only thing I wanted to add was just. I've had some discussions and meetings and whatnot as well, and I know DC, where you know a lot of the issues that are going on.
17:39:15 But I can't say that I also lost a job yesterday specifically, because the client decided not to go through permit process.
17:39:23 The word is kind of getting out there that it's it's a mess, and people are literally going elsewhere.
17:39:30 And I had a client, 2 very good sites able to be developed heard kind of what was happening with the county, and what's going on.
17:39:41 And the message process a gentleman from Alaska knocked on my door.
17:39:46 Because I have a Home Office hey, man! He talked to several professionals in the county and gotten really good discussion feedback on things, but we need to do a better job
at Dcd. He felt like they didn't have the time to date.
17:40:00 For I don't know if the procedure is, hey?
17:40:03 Here's the applications. Please review this questions. Talk to professionals, or set up cam.
17:40:08 He was simply told, you know, set of cam, you know people are willing to really move on things.
17:40:14 So he's like I leave in 2 days for Alaska, I can't, you know, and even if I zoom in 2 or 3 weeks that land may be gone, or I may be doing something else, I think we could be
a little more responsive, and try to be aware that we've heard it
17:40:27 from real estate organizations as well. That timing what not, but and of course all the other things going on, something got your hands out of the other things, not. It would
be good for us to know as professionals whether it's permit facilitators builders, designers, etc.
17:40:47 In that process of filling out the Sdrs or if they're going to continue one of the comments was made. Hey!
17:40:56 Is it the As in number on the parcel, as part of that title that you're looking for to confirm some of this legal on record?
17:41:05 You know history the rest of it, knowing kind of what your process is when it's taken in with that clients who submitted 2, 3 weeks ago and have not received anything confirming
that it was turned in asking for payment.
17:41:18 You know any of that kind of thing, and of course the portal shut down.
17:41:22 We got. You know, I, as recently as yesterday, was looking for information, can't find it.
17:41:28 Another client who's Sdr. Or triggered some kind of public notice, and again, I'm trying.
17:41:35 Well, what's this about trying to look for? Can't find it so a lot of things there it would be helpful to us in the community we are trying to help people build to know specifically,
you know, yeah, we fill out those applications.
17:41:47 But then they go in, and 6 months later, you know, we're twittering our phone's wondering what's going on.
17:41:54 We need to. I think. Get the word out on the process.
17:41:57 Figure out what I mean. We've changed the application once.
17:42:00 It's at least during the process, thinking we're gonna make it easier.
17:42:03 But we're really stuck, and it's now hurting us fast.
17:42:09 We all talked about the housing issue, but this is another one not being able to get permits and start building.
17:42:15 And we're in that time of year where people want to move, and we're not moving.
17:42:20 And the word is out. Professionals, you know, in the community and beyond our community is so just be aware, all of this is going on out there, and I know you're aware of all
the issues on the internal side.
17:42:40 But on the external side this is happening.
17:42:43 Thanks. Thanks. Kevin. Any additional updates?
17:42:50 So when you apply, are you playing online for this process typically the Sdrl or so, they literally didn't even get an email back to say, after 2 weeks, ask me what's going
on. And that kind of thing.
17:43:07 I tried to look, I can't find anything, you know.
17:43:08 It's difficult to get hold of folks and need some time down.
17:43:10 And you guys, you know, you get back eventually with the emails.
17:43:13 Usually that kind of thing, but you know, it's just so different from working with other development offices that you know.
17:43:22 Either. They and I get it. We're switching things over, but we switch the portal over December, we switch this new Sdr.
17:43:29 In October, you know.
17:43:32 Why, things aren't getting kicked out and shuttle to queue faster, or, you know, let's know in the professions, hey?
17:43:41 When you're submitting your lacking information or your clients are lacking information or you know, whatever it is, there's got to be a reason why.
17:43:49 And you know some of it is workforce in that's the whole separate issue.
17:43:52 But we need to work this process out so that it's fast, smooth, and easy.
17:43:56 Otherwise, you know why. Bother! The rules are on the the record.
17:44:02 All the regulations, requirements for water, sewer or size, a lot dealing with that various issues of approach, etc.
17:44:11 All those rules are on the books we created. The Sdr.
17:44:14 In the Lorr, and it just added another layer of time and effort, and originally in the meeting, the Planning Commission Board account of Commissioners.
17:44:22 We were talking a couple of weeks in a couple of $100, I think Dcd.
17:44:31 Got the point. The planning commission for account. Thanks. Any updates on different topics.
17:44:42 Very well. We'll move to the next agenda.
17:44:44 Item. Well, I did have one more on. It's a completely different topic.
17:44:50 On Friday I attended the transportation.
17:44:55 I forget exactly what it was called, but we had a conference down at the Veterans.
17:45:03 Help me. The building that has yet that was put together by the Tradition Committee.
17:45:12 Non motorized transportation Committee. Maybe they're Jefferson County, too.
17:45:16 I found it fabulous that I think the videos I was only able to attend half the day, but there were a lot of topics about how we can design intersections and streets to to help
drivers understand that they need to be paying attention to place and to create place that I'm
17:45:38 sure as planners. You guys all know about. But I what I was thinking a lot about was the upcoming uga work that we're gonna do.
17:45:48 And some very fractical things that we could do to create place in a place that doesn't have a lot of place in it.
17:45:55 And it was filmed, and I am told that will be available at some point.
17:46:02 I hope that's true, and I think it'd be worth it for the planning Commission to have access to that.
17:46:08 As we look at. Thank you. Again. Was it the transportation lab associated with the local 2020 organization?
17:46:20 Yeah, that is a port talent focus group. But it doesn't mean that we can't take advantage of the accounting of the conversation.
17:46:29 Yeah, I think we did move to the next agenda. Item.
17:46:33 Now, that would be Dcd and director updates.
17:46:37 Yes, thank you, mister. I do have updates. I do notice that Commissioner is with us, and wondering whether she would like to jump in at this point or wanted to jump in later,
or just simply observe so just curious, I'd like to defer to her if she wants to jump in.
17:46:51 I'm just here to listen along. I know that normally Commissioners don't attend planning commission meetings.
17:46:59 I never really understood whether that's been a role I've always wanted to.
17:47:02 Attend all of them, so I might start attending all of them maybe you could just make me a planning commissioner, and then and then you'll have one.
17:47:09 Less seat to fill District 2. Right? As, or is that that's full right now, there's other there's other boards with that district, 2 on them.
17:47:17 I'm glad to be here, and I am, as I like to say, flying low on all this stuff going on right now, and I'm supportive of the department, and I'm super supportive of all the questions
that Kevin just raised at a good long conversation with Ld.
17:47:33 Started yesterday before the forklift went in, and then continued, this morning, so I really appreciate the building community being at our planning commission table because
I think it's a really important perspective to have in our mix here.
17:47:49 Right now, because they're on tighter timelines than any of us really are, although I am concerned about the long range planning work that we have to do as a group.
17:47:59 So I'm really here to listen and bring to try and be as supportive as possible as we move through this.
17:48:08 Semi-challenging time, because and it's not just.
17:48:13 It's not just about what's going on at Dcd.
17:48:17 I mean, we all know that what's been going on during Covid, the housing shortage.
17:48:20 I mean, it's these are all compounding issues.
17:48:24 And it's important for us to remember that and give each other grace, but also stay tuned to what the issues really are, and try and find solutions to get through them in a
practical, pragmatic way.
17:48:36 So I'm here to just listen and try and be as supportive as possible as we move forward.
17:48:42 I know it's a challenging time.
17:48:45 Thanks for being here. Thank you.
17:48:46 Yeah, sorry I'm not there in person. I was literally in a meeting until, like 5Â min before this one raced.
17:48:58 Alright. Thank you. So, yeah, last to talk about lesser report on first.
17:49:03 We have auburn, of course, with us, so she's the commission clerk as well as an assistant planner and a key member of the Sdr.
17:49:11 Team, and we have George, who has joined us fairly recently.
17:49:14 I think he's seen him and sitting in the audience, he's absorbing a lot and comes to our long range planning meetings, and it wants to engage in the talk to Joel on these.
17:49:24 So I asked George to help operate the setup and take down and have them out there at the table as well.
17:49:27 So, okay, so.
17:49:30 I saw that the appointment timeframe for vacant seats was on. There.
17:49:34 I think everything is online. There, we've worked with the Commissioner's office to make the advertisements, and we just need to progress on the interview process and setup
interviews that include Joel as well as the Commissioner whose district it is proceeding according to schedule I think the if I remember correctly extensions
17:49:54 of the plan. Commissioners whose terms and would have elapsed, have been extended to like June thirtieth. And so we're still scheduled to meet that.
17:50:03 So now back to the issue at hand, that Kevin brought up, and I know that Ld.
17:50:08 Is thinking about, and others. And so, as I mentioned, we appear before the board on Monday morning to talk about a variety of things, one of which was just a limited closure.
17:50:21 For one specific week. At the beginning of May, and the reason would be that we'd be been more shorthanded than we currently are on the front staff.
17:50:30 And so it'd just be very difficult to to handle the volume of traffic.
17:50:36 Essentially a different stack in that condition and so we're having a week to in light of that, it also gets a chance to catch a breath and try to catch up a little bit on the
backlog, which is weighing down on all this, and I realize completely that the actual real world effect is much
17:50:52 more pointing for those who are trying to build a house or trying to live in a house, or all those things.
17:50:58 I mean, we're just feeling the pressure because we have the work in front of us.
17:51:02 But I certainly realize that for a lot of folks this is a a real serious issue, and not taking it lightly at all.
17:51:10 So we will be close for most of the week of May first and fifth with a 3 week, 3Â h window just for drop insins on Wednesday but we're still gonna be listening to voicemails.
17:51:23 And email, address, we can to respond to those. And then today, also, we just today posted in 6 new positions in the department.
17:51:33 And so, if the wheel of fortune lands in our favor will be onboarding that group of folks at the same around the same time.
17:51:43 So, maybe there'd be another limited closure of sometime in summer, so that we could train those folks because one of the things that we found is that you know, it's hard to
train new people with such frequency when the trainers themselves are also leading for other the opportunity so that's been
17:52:03 difficult. So I just I mean, I think the pain. The picture doesn't need to be painted too broadly here.
17:52:08 I know you've heard me talk about it, others, but I just in the interest of refreshing, just on the capacity issue from a work standpoint.
17:52:16 We know that we lost a few folks in the fall.
17:52:20 Emily and Amanda, you might not have met that as much, because they were working on permits well, grants for Emily, and permits for a man that she had over good.
17:52:28 The cases going was doing you know, its work at the time, and went.
17:52:33 Wanted to move to Seattle, and especially she was actually one of our teller workers from the Covid Era.
17:52:38 So that was another factor. She never actually moved here and that's one of our, of course, our constraints for any department earlier in the county or any business in Porttown
Port tales in his area. It's just trying to attract people track talent when it's very hard to make a living even if
17:52:52 you have a good job. It's hard to purchase a house or anything like that, because of the the situation that we have here in this county.
17:53:01 So I brought this up before this one of the problems, of course, is these folks have to fund portable housing and then be able to well, housing, making a board at the have we
tried that notion of what?
17:53:24 If we have some part-time positions, and brought in some retirees that are already in the community, that may be saying, Hey, I don't want to go back to full-time work.
17:53:34 That may be they wouldn't want to do part time working already.
17:53:38 Live here. They already have a retirement, you know.
17:53:42 I think we have created, just solve this problem out of people being able to live here or to.
17:53:49 You know, would be wrong, but to get paid. That's an interesting idea.
17:53:54 I mean all ideas, as far as I'm concerned, are on the table.
17:53:57 If you know people that we could talk about that more, we did advertise for a very part time planning commission, correct.
17:54:05 Didn't get any bikes for a while, then eventually got a couple of options, but at that time we had already signed off into those duties.
17:54:11 So that's just one example. I certainly open to the idea.
17:54:13 Clerk hire is what it's called.
17:54:15 When you just take someone on part time. They're not a full-time employee. They don't have.
17:54:19 They'll focus package and all of that. We, we, we're open to that idea.
17:54:24 If it works within our budget, and we can bring people on board in that capacity certainly open to, especially like sort of like flash into my mind like a Walmart greeter. You
know, someone at the front door would be just the public coming in.
17:54:36 That's an interesting idea. We have Lila, who actually is fairly new on our staff, and she was working on the Co-OP, and decided to switch over to to our office.
17:54:45 And she's been performing those kinds of duties, handling a lot of incoming land.
17:54:50 These questions. And then we've actually are in the process of moving, moving her from a clerk to a term. Limited position.
17:54:57 So because she wants to, you know, wants to stay on board.
17:55:00 So that's an opportunity. Let me go over the positions that we did, just to finish the rundown here.
17:55:05 So since Brad went on, leave back in February first started with Brian.
17:55:11 Remember? Brian? Right? Yeah. Talented individual. I was working a lot of long range planning things he left and then since then we had amber who was at our front desk even
though she'd only been there for a couple of years.
17:55:24 That's a lot for a intake person.
17:55:29 You know, from a tech person in terms of learning the ropes.
17:55:29 So she's our most experienced and skilled person in that regard.
17:55:32 She went to the city. Our friends at the city. Then Jody had started her family in December, so we were waiting for her to come back. After about 3 months.
17:55:41 So we're really looking forward to I mean, basically, Rody, as you know, I kind of ran the show behind the scenes.
17:55:47 The office had been there for? I think so, Jodi just told us that she was not coming back, just came back for one day, and then Morgan, who was Jody's like understudy.
17:56:00 If you will. Went to the Pv. Just able to pay her a lot more money than we could at the time.
17:56:06 Anyway, I guess we're back into negotiations.
17:56:07 But more another. You know you have a person talented, living in the community just done a better job for her and her family.
17:56:15 So that left us without any of the administrative support that we generally have.
17:56:19 So you've got Brents and yours truly doing the Hr.
17:56:22 The cash, hearing the accounts payable vouchers, the public records, the office supply ordering which I had started doing my journey, left.
17:56:32 I'm just. I'm not trying. I'm really trying not to.
17:56:33 Why, I'm just telling you what everything we possibly can with help, and asking people like Jenny, one of our new planners on the Sdr.
17:56:43 Team who had experience in fish school work in a previous job to be trained on the accounts payable stuff, so that we can at least pay the bills until we get a new administrative
services manager.
17:56:54 So, and then after that, of course, Shannon, who was supervising these 2 folks as well as Jenny, she left, and then and and then Helena, as well.
17:57:05 Another very talented person. You know very well, Helena went to the city of Fort Townson, has a long range very interested in language planning, so that made sense for them,
and so we can't blame her for them for taking that opportunity so it's just a variety of factors oh, and of course
17:57:19 co-compliance. Deborah went back to the city of so that's a lot of people, and that's so.
17:57:26 We're doing a reorgan right now. And so we administrative services manager to be able to do all those administrative functions that I just listed.
17:57:35 Essentially be a hybrid between Jody and what Morgan, what they were doing.
17:57:40 So that person's gonna do all of those functions, but not manage as many people.
17:57:44 And instead, we're advertising for a building effect slash fire, Marshall.
17:57:48 So that person could be an exempt position. So really take charge, in a sense of the building team, including the permanent intake person, was Gay, who was our planning tech.
17:57:59 Who wants to move into the building world and most interested in plan plans. Examiner.
17:58:03 Perhaps some day, okay, moving over to that software that Amber vacated, meaning that we have a new person, Ethan, who just started yesterday.
17:58:10 So, Ethan's gonna be doing a lot of the permanent intake type stuff.
17:58:15 So all those problems that you've been experiencing especially lately really has to do with just the fact that with all those people flying the Cupid, if you will, there's it's
hard to keep track of everything at once.
17:58:25 So even in the planning email inbox, we had just a stack of applications.
17:58:30 I've been waiting for weeks that we're just unable to get to.
17:58:34 Just frankly unable to get to and now we're finally getting to those and picking a backup and making responses there are even a couple of public records request in there that
really there's a way to do both the great service in the county it's very specific on the website but
17:58:45 nonetheless, if someone says something to you or send you an email, that's a public request, I really, I'm not the type of person who likes to.
17:58:54 I like to juggle. I don't like to drop balls, but there's almost no way to keep all the balls in the air right now.
17:58:59 I'm just hoping that it's kinda like when you drop your keys I'm just kinda hoping it lands on the pavement, and I can find them not like it falls off the ferry into the drink,
you know, so that's my metaphor rather than the
17:59:10 balls in the fire, gonna run with that kind of work.
17:59:13 So, I guess we're just doing the best we can in that regard.
17:59:15 We hope to staff right backup. I've got David Wayne Johnson who's one of our more experienced planners. He used to do.
17:59:24 He started as a permanent Jack and did permanent take, and then had done a lot of customer service type stuff he and Lila are taking over the Cams.
17:59:31 The customer assistance meetings so that we could free up the assistant planner so they can work on the Sdr.
17:59:36 6 almost exclusively, and get them away from the camp commitments it's not just the meetings themselves, it's prepping for it.
17:59:42 And then following up on the meeting. So we've got that.
17:59:45 And then David Wayne, who also was an internal planning manager.
17:59:48 For a while, working with as the building from an intake person.
17:59:53 And now Ethan just started yesterday on just revamping our permanent intake procedures.
17:59:58 So we try to avoid some of the concerns and miscommunication and lack of communication that happens at the permit intake level itself again, amber are most experienced.
18:00:07 Person left a few weeks ago month ago, month and a half ago, and and then Morgan, a person Wednesday office left, too, so really literally having nobody with institutional memory
in that regard there anymore.
18:00:17 The only person left be the 2 building inspectors. They're doing their jobs the way they've always done.
18:00:20 That's fine. And then the plan is examiner.
18:00:23 So those 3 intact, and the 3 planners, and then Brent and I that's it from any of the sort of people that were there before.
18:00:29 Everybody else is new. These folks and 2 others are less than 6 months in the planning that's in the Treasury.
18:00:37 Officially a trial period, and then we've got Gabe still in his trial period, although he's doing great.
18:00:44 He's already switched jobs within that trial period. And then we've got the new folks coming on what I'm hoping to do if I can again, if the wheel of fortune spins in our favor
is attract some folks who have experience in this regard and see just you know sell along.
18:00:58 The whole port, towns, and experience just county, and try to get some folks who are veteran experience both in covid administration, interpretation and in harder cases like
the ones that require public hearings, because our new folks extremely talented dedicated smart folks just don't have the experience in doing
18:01:14 those complicated permits, and still have a stack of those that need to be processed.
18:01:18 So it's it's the case. Redistribution is a challenge.
18:01:21 So when Amanda left, that's 50, we did red distribute those.
18:01:26 Brian had a lot of hard cases, not as many, but hard ones.
18:01:29 Helena had over 60 cases, and we're still working on.
18:01:31 Helen is. And then Shannon had a lot of hard ones, too.
18:01:35 And remember Shannon was supervising this folks now they're all reporting to me so I guess I'm saying that we have this case.
18:01:42 Redistribution, puzzle. So folks that have applied in the past, maybe they applied last year.
18:01:48 You know they're in line. So we need to kind of sub those cases in into the caseload of the development view planners.
18:01:55 That just means that the newer folks that only applied in 2023, even February, are just that they're gonna their line is gonna move back because of the capacity.
18:02:04 But again, if fortunate files I understand that we get all these folks, and they and their folks with experience like that.
18:02:10 The other positions that we're hiring for.
18:02:12 Okay, Administrative Services manager, building official file, fire.
18:02:16 Marshall on the planning side code administrator planning supervisor, associate, planner.
18:02:21 So, and a code compliance person. So that's 4 more people on that side.
18:02:26 So the Code administrator, the thought there is that instead of having a planning manager which is the model we used to have that did both the long range planning and the development
code administration which was my job when I first rejoin the county last year this person will focus exclusively
18:02:41 on the billing review aspect of the work, and we'll just focus it big down on that, so that that would free my time up.
18:02:50 But clearly, obviously from making every individual permit decision and feeling.
18:02:55 All of those calls and engaging, and so forth, to that person.
18:02:58 Would then supervise the planning supervisor we would have all the newer assistant planners and then the veterans who do development review in that group.
18:03:06 So that's that's the idea. There. And a lot expanding and stay with the director, slash deputy director's office.
18:03:13 So I would you still see my! My face here? And so we sort of separate those 2 functions a little bit more or less like it used to be.
18:03:19 But to try to keep the development review path concentrated.
18:03:23 Part of the issue is just the volume of things and then the breadth of things, and then distractions.
18:03:29 So clearly, answering people's questions extremely important, but also hard to do when you're supposed to be working on a permit. You know.
18:03:36 So, even if it's sometimes ironically, that same applicant calling you multiple times, even though it's quite the answer.
18:03:42 The question hasn't changed, but nonetheless, you still get that we still get that the voicemail or still, your phone is still waiting. So we're trying to do it all at once.
In that regard.
18:03:51 And again all ideas open. The other thing we did put on an Rfp to see it on our website for on call planning services.
18:03:57 Yes, we have that. That's it. We're waiting for responses again.
18:04:01 It would be 2 discrete planning tasks, such as environmental reasons.
18:04:09 Public hearings preparing for those I that's the kind of thing that may be a firm could do without knowing all the insights of what you know, what we do inside the permit, but
also the master plan, resort, activities that are occurring in pleasant harbor so that consulting we need to get
18:04:24 a consultant to work on that to work directly with that developer just because of pure volume of the of the cases that are gonna be happening in that regard.
18:04:31 So so that's also happening and that would just be another tool on the belt.
18:04:35 We are going back to the board. We're hoping to schedule that we're still working with the county administrator on the date, but we would like to go back to the board on May
eighth, which is a Monday.
18:04:47 That would give us time to research with the prosecutor attorney's office.
18:04:52 The assessors, Office and Environmental Health box of Attendees.
18:04:56 Variables or variations on the legal lot of record program.
18:05:01 So just, you know, almost more than I do, really, about how that all started right.
18:05:07 Fall of 2021 moratorium lots of work, preliminary work, and then I know, I know that's some of you, anyway.
18:05:17 Feel that it was rushed at the end, not gonna certainly not gonna debate. You on that.
18:05:20 I just know that we got the marching orders to finish that job before October fourth, October third. Which is when the one year March is going to expire.
18:05:28 So we did that and what we found it really, what Auba and George and Jenny and Lyla got found now that Bryan and Shannon the Hellen are no longer working on it before they really
know the most about all the implementation challenges of the legal lot of record
18:05:45 ordinance is that there's just so many stories, so many puzzles to try to solve about what happened in Jeff's County over all those decades.
18:05:52 And so we found that, geez! It's not that easy to try to get a partial history.
18:05:55 If there's an afn, an auditors file number on a lock, clad it after August eleventh, 1969, great.
18:06:01 No problem as long as nothing's happened to it. Since then.
18:06:03 That's no problem. It's everything else, though it's the unplanned logs.
18:06:07 It's the plats that weren't recorded.
18:06:10 It's the all the exemptions to various subdivisions, ordinances over the decades that resulted in land being divided without being subdivided.
18:06:17 Per the Subdivision Act of Washington State. Now, that's what we're finding and those are puzzles.
18:06:23 And we've we've Brian left us with a gift which is a, you know, recommendations on some of these policy items, and we've implemented that policy in a fairly flexible way.
18:06:32 We've acted on some cases as if the lots were lawfully created.
18:06:36 Clearly they weren't or we couldn't really tell if they were not. And it wasn't sufficient documentation to make that judgment call.
18:06:41 But this is a document we're supposed to be producing, as someone can file or record, or the auditor.
18:06:46 So we've avoided some of these residential development.
18:06:48 Exception processes is what what you mentioned, Kevin.
18:06:52 That's a type 2 process where you have to do the public notice we've actually taken a couple of those up.
18:06:57 We identified about 18 and then knocked maybe 4 or 5 off that list by saying, You know, if we, if we enacted this policy, aspect or this interpretation of this new code, we
can knock those off, and then we will just concentrate on this other dozen, or so so we've been trying different things, but
18:07:11 we realize that, you know, maybe some more work to go into that and I think it's by strong belief that it's not the Site Development Review, Sdr.
18:07:21 Itself. That is, the holdup, if you will, on working through some of that, the more difficult cases it's the legal lot of record.
18:07:31 Aspect of it, and so because the Psychedelic Review, just to review is the sort of overarching title for this sort of pre-review land use review prior to development applications
and it's composed of a development envelope that we provide a map we provide a sometimes 2 page sometimes 4 or 5
18:07:50 or 6. Page, build ability, analysis, which includes going into all the various areas about that parcel, and then finally, some next steps for that applicant to do. Sometimes
it's simple.
18:08:01 Go, apply for your building, permit reception, permit something it's like, you know, you've got to deal with that information structure, or you need to do a geotechnical report
before you can move on, because you're in this area and you want to build on our unstable slow whatever it
18:08:12 is right. So it that's why it's between 2 pages and many more.
18:08:16 So the buildability analysis analysis that's working well, the team is really dial, that in it's the legal lot of record, determination, aspect.
18:08:23 That's the most challenging part, and we do wanna have a fresh look at that.
18:08:26 Whether that result in just a policy, memorandum, or some other kind of document that enables that provides clear direction to the team when working with, especially the individual
locks that are assessed.
18:08:40 Perhaps we can break it down into individual locks versus those areas where we have multiple lots of common ownership of the historic class.
18:08:47 That was my understanding. The original input is for that or alternative.
18:08:50 So that is a conversation we want to have. As I mentioned, with the prosecuting your prosecuting attorney's office ancestor's office, environmental health, and others, and then
come back to the board hopefully on May eighth with some options to consider so that we have the Boards.
18:09:04 Blessing essentially how we want to approach that program.
18:09:07 The Sdr. Itself our my team tells me that if we can solve the legal loud record puzzle, then the Sdr.
18:09:15 Can start moving a lot quicker, and we haven't moved through.
18:09:17 But again, we still have other challenges and those are the capacity challenges simply, just, we're swam at this time.
18:09:23 Now I think that we have a unique set of challenges here in Jefferson County, based on everything we just discussed.
18:09:28 To switch over to Entergov anytime. You switch over from software platform.
18:09:33 You have problems, we have problems. But we are solving them again on one piece at a time, and that's just been a challenge.
18:09:40 At the same time as we've coming out of the pandemic, coming out of a one year. Development moratorium.
18:09:44 I've got a new ordinance to implement. Having a significant staff turn over all of that at once.
18:09:50 That isn't actually true, I don't think we're the only dream in Washington State has had issues with permit timelines.
18:09:55 If that were the case, then there wouldn't have been 3 count of 3 bills out of this legislative session that deal with permitting timelines, and we're just digesting those now.
18:10:04 What they even mean. What does that mean for us? Some of them talk about on call planning services and the State, providing some supplemental budget to local governments if
they opted to a program to in order to pay for the additional costs that it will be to do permanent review with our call
18:10:21 services because it's people might think that it's expensive to get permits.
18:10:23 But if you start charging, actually, what's gonna cost us to pay a consulted to do it, then it's gonna even more expensive.
18:10:29 But maybe if you optimize this program, those costs would be covered by state through this new legislation, at least one of those 3 bills except opting that the program means
you're committing to these certain parameters or timelines.
18:10:39 And we need to look into that, see whether we can even do that.
18:10:42 But these bills do have to do with permit review and timelines and things like that.
18:10:46 Terminations of completeness, and all these kinds of planning, enabling acts, type, things.
18:10:49 And I guess I'm only bringing that out to you that we need to look into that and see if we can take advantage of those things.
18:10:54 We're actually out there going to be some trouble troubles for us.
18:10:57 Possibly, and if there weren't, if it weren't for other jurisdictions, local governments having some issues, at least with permit timeless. And there wouldn't be 3 bills that
we passed in the legislature, because I don't think they I just like to do something just
18:11:10 for us in that regard, so I know I just said a lot of words.
18:11:14 I know I'm trying to address this as best I can, and just giving you an idea about number variety of things that we're trying at the moment to address the issues we're taking
it very seriously and doing the best we can, and trying not to burn out our new staff again, are doing fantastic work but they are
18:11:33 stressed. That's what they tell me when I see it, and I haven't been around long enough that I have some ways, some tools to handle this kind of stress, but I have to admit,
that also, I feel stressed at times you know. But I can only imagine if they're just starting their careers out
18:11:47 planning, like it must feel like well, George mentioned that it's not just one firehose.
18:11:52 It's like 5 firefighters. There wasn't only 4 either way. A lot of fire hoses.
18:11:56 It was so. I think we're trying our best to, you know.
18:12:00 Just try to maintain a calm demeanor in the midst of the storm and weather.
18:12:02 It, and come out on the other end with a you know we're rebuilt team or reorganize department.
18:12:08 Some processes figured out, and unfortunately it's falling right in the season where you know it's the springtime when people wanna get their permits in line to build in the
summer.
18:12:19 And you know it's certainly too late to tell them.
18:12:21 If you had replied in November you'd be in bad shape.
18:12:25 That's not a message. It's gonna be very positively be received.
18:12:27 But where this is a difficult year, and it's it's a post pandemic hangover of an extraordinary measure.
18:12:34 That's my report. We have a great read, Josh.
18:12:36 Is Jefferson County able to offer salaries for its people that are competitive with other planning agencycies in the area.
18:12:50 I think that's a question I would defer to the accounting administrator, and the leadership of the courthouse.
18:12:56 That's not you know. That's I go. I'm juggling a lot of balls right now, but that's not one of them that said, though it is a bargaining year.
18:13:03 We have a collective for our union. There's several unions, or at least chapters or sections of unions that have contracts with the county.
18:13:14 You Gotve got teachers in public works, and there's several different teams there's involved in different departments.
18:13:20 And then we have the United food and commercial workers, us.
18:13:21 Cw. You'll need a certain chat, a certain local chapter.
18:13:25 We have a collective bargaining agreement that expires.
18:13:29 At the end of this year the county sent a letter to the Union, a formal letter back in January, then followed up again like a month or 2 later, suggesting that we suggest strongly
that we get together and negotiate so that we can get an agreement in place before the end of the
18:13:42 year usually it's kind of like after the things expire.
18:13:45 I think they're extending, and then you negotiate that hasn't worked so well in the past, although sometimes it's resulted in some back pain based on cost of living increases.
18:13:53 And my understanding is that there's a recognition that we're not being competitive right now.
18:13:59 We're not being competitive with. And we lost. Somebody said, You financials.
18:14:03 We lost too, for someone to this city of Cambridge Island or Pad City, Port Town.
18:14:08 Then, and then a private consulting firm oh, Thursday County private consulting firm in Seattle area.
18:14:14 So those are the ones I know about, anyway. So we're never gonna compete with Benjamin.
18:14:18 We're not good but can we compete with our neighbors a little bit better?
18:14:23 I hope so, and I know that the county is prepared to offer wage, increases, in fact, wants to set the 2023 table based on whenever the opinion gets signed for the rest of the
year to reflect that it's just a matter of getting to the table my understanding is now the
18:14:37 union has responded and those negotiations that negotiations are going to start soon.
18:14:41 But I'm not involved in that directly. Thank you. So do you have a current number on the back?
18:14:47 Log at Sds, yeah and I wish that I brought my little cheat sheet paper on that.
18:14:53 I'm sorry that I forgot that, but I can give you estimates.
18:14:56 I know, if you listed back Ld. To the Monday session Monday morning session, I did site the numbers specifically so right now, if memory serves, I'm just gonna say that we've
had about 300 applications since October and about 125 since January or
18:15:15 6 something like that. So almost half since January, we've completed.
18:15:22 I wanna, say, a 100, 1,115, probably or so.
18:15:27 By this by this week. I know I signed a few more, and we're on a 100 all that officially a few days ago, and outside a few more since that.
18:15:34 So about 115, say that we've done, but we've also done some analysis on it, and I think maybe next meeting is a chance, or maybe we'll just send you some information that summarizes
because I don't. I I don't.
18:15:45 Wanna take away from too much of what the subjects tonight cause.
18:15:49 I part of what we go back in front of the board.
18:15:50 We promised the board that we come back with more numbers and more analysis around that, but we have.
18:15:54 This is one of the reasons why I say that legal a lot of it.
18:15:58 Besides, just the feedback. I got anecdotally from the staff, but the numbers show that when you break down each of these applications, then there's no X amount, or from unplatted
X amount of from between 1937 and 1969 xml if someone from before 1937 and
18:16:14 so forth. And we actually have that breakdown. So I haven't paid yet somewhere complete.
18:16:19 So you know, this is Friday of lists. So it's not a simple I will say this that we're finally at least have gone through all the 2020 twos, and now we're into 2023.
18:16:26 Doesn't need all the 20 twenty-two's have been solved, the ones that still have some troubles that we're trying to solve are are there?
18:16:33 But at least we've gone through all that those applications, and we're picking up the ones in 2023. At this point.
18:16:39 So at least we can say that anything else that you wanna add to that just from your study of the data I think that's our numbers.
18:16:48 Looking at. Yeah, we have a few like fairly complicated cases that are like earlier ones. But those ones we've been kind of consistently getting out, especially with.
18:16:57 Now that in a lot of cases some of those early Sdrs we've been working really hard to get those out as a priority.
18:17:10 I'm just I really appreciate the amount of that reorganization discussion and the fact that you're bringing on another fire building official that was, I was worried that all
of a sudden let's say the floodgates opened and got all this and also got inspectors from the
18:17:24 fields in one man show. So that's great. I appreciate that also.
18:17:31 Are, and I'm sure you've thought about it.
18:17:34 But are we also making sure that you know some of this planning stuff is required by the State?
18:17:39 Gotta stay on top of it. But the stuff that really isn't required we're putting down the back shelf until we get building, you know, application permission. So process.
18:17:48 I would imagine that's true. Well, it's interesting that you should say that's sort of the part of the public hearing subject for tonight.
18:17:55 It always is a balance. I know Commissioner Eisenhower mentioned that as well, so.
18:18:00 We want to also work on bigger picture problems issues come up with innovative solutions.
18:18:07 And one of those I know. The Planning Commission's been working hard about, and that's that's housing you know, from a regulatory standpoint in terms of the code.
18:18:13 And then, of course, we have our list of corrections we feel like we've dialed that in fairly well.
18:18:18 So I guess, as a preview, I believe that our staff recommendation it's gonna be that we continue with these 2 suggested amendments on the docket.
18:18:26 But I do think that when we will draw, yeah, you're actually getting to the topic of our meeting today.
18:18:31 Okay. So perhaps we could get that in sounds good. Thank you.
18:18:37 Any other questions, comments.
18:18:39 Richard, I just wanna say I'm super grateful for Josh.
18:18:45 He's holding a lot right now, as was just exhibited from his presentation.
18:18:50 I mean, he's working it at all levels right now, and I, Josh I say this to you a lot because I feel like you're really clear communicator.
18:18:59 But thank you for the work that you and your staff team is doing right now, and Brents not here tonight, or I would be thinking him as well.
18:19:07 But thank you, for to you and your team for holding this, holding all these pieces because there's so many moving parts and so many balls in the air right now, I'm really grateful.
18:19:18 And I know that my seatmates are also grateful for the leadership you're providing.
18:19:23 And you know one thing about this time that we're in is it's an opportunity to rebuild back.
18:19:28 Better rebuild back better. You know we can build the right.
18:19:32 We have the app to improve the recipe right now, and I would love if we all kind of rallied around that, because I think this is a time where we have the right people on the
team, and we can build the right recipe for Dcd going forward.
18:19:49 And I really wanna kind of just leave that as my last message as to what Josh was just saying, because it's it's a lot as you all just heard.
18:19:57 And I think we can all appreciate that. And you know I mean, I've been trying to figure out how I can pitch in and I look at my calendar and I'm not available.
18:20:05 Then times they need me, and I'm just, you know.
18:20:08 It's we're all doing a lot right now, but it's so important.
18:20:12 And it's so appreciate it. So I just wanted to add that before we moved on.
18:20:19 Thank you. Thank you.
18:20:22 Hmm!
18:20:24 Where to go to the next agenda items which is public comment create.
18:20:29 This is public comment create, for I items are not part of the hearing.
18:20:33 Does anybody wish to comment on an item that, if not part of the hearing?
18:20:44 Close the public comment period. Then is there was there same one?
18:20:50 Okay. You're next agenda. Item, is our consent, agenda, and we do have a consent agenda item today.
18:20:57 And I was in a motion to receive the items that consent.
18:21:02 Agenda. If you move, is there a second Laura?
18:21:05 Second to the motion. And I'll pull the Commissioners.
18:21:10 That. Yes, no! Worries. Arlene is.
18:21:14 Yes, Gavin. Yes, yes, Matt, yes, Lorna.
18:21:25 Yes.
18:21:22 Ld. Chris. Good. Yes. Passes.
18:21:31 Now we're yeah. Our next agenda item is our regular business.
18:21:37 And this is the business of the hearing, for with the final block details 23 and I have a description to hear your procedure, which I will now read.
18:21:53 The public hearing is now open regarding recommendations for the final docket.
18:21:59 A few 1,023 comprehensive plan and unified development code.
18:22:02 Udc suggested text of measurements. The the planning Commission is holding this public hearing to accept public comment, regarding the suggested amendments on the premiminary
docket.
18:22:14 If all be hearing I'm a hearing. Debike Commission will prepare for and recommendation identifying those suggested amendments that it is recommending consideration by the Board
of County Commissioners to include on the final docket that you have doubt 20 threethree amendment process please note the
18:22:33 3 site specific. The only amendment proposals from the public are automatically moved to the Board of Kind of Commissioners. Final Docket.
18:22:44 Testimony will be heard this evening on 2, suggested.
18:22:47 Comprehensive plan and Udc. Checks amendment proposals, and if they should be ripped, and if they should be recommended by the planning commission to the Board of Commissions,
while a docket step will summarize that summary of the general topics of these
18:23:02 amendments. Thank you, Mr. Chair. There are 2 suggested amendments proposed for the docket, or, in other words, on the preliminary amendment docket.
18:23:13 For this year proposed for the final docket file docket is established by the board accounting commissioners.
18:23:20 Those 2 are a package of Howing related amendments that were developed by the planning commission.
18:23:26 Essentially with some staff assistance, and then a set of staff, principally staff, generated unified development code, corrections or amendments designed to just fix things
that we've noticed over time as we've tried to implement that the staff package for the Udc is a wide variety of things so I don't think
18:23:49 it'd be worth trying to go into every aspect of them, but at the same time it touches most of the aspects of the code, and there's tables that are available in our laser fee
Directory for the public and for you to examine all the details.
18:24:03 But I will describe briefly the Housing Amendment, application, and.
18:24:09 The first one. The first element is a rural low impact housing overlay concept, which would essentially allow for a different way of developing real residential property that
is somewhat similar to the way that it's someone. It's possible for someone to do cluster development.
18:24:30 In a subdivision through the planned rural residential development or Prrd regulations.
18:24:37 So that's for when you have one large piece of property that is able to be subdivided according to zoning, and then you do it in a certain way that results in instead of having
squares or rectangles, you've got a different innovative or alternative way, of doing it
18:24:52 clustered subdivision, and then maintaining open space.
18:24:54 This case, my understanding of the proposal from the planning commission is that there would be an overlay over one piece of property, that, not to subdivide, but do have multiple
structures rather than your traditional single family residents with an accessory dwelling unit there'd be possibilities of a different
18:25:10 way of approaching development on the property under a performance standard such that the ultimate impact would actually be less than if you had say, for example, a large single
family residence which we really don't restrict in this county except through perhaps restrictions on on in purvey service on a property but you can have essentially
18:25:30 a large house with multiple veterans. Right? So I get, I think the Plan Commission is asking the question, what's the difference between having what if we had smaller structure?
18:25:40 Same number of bedrooms, or or even less impact, just with a even even some common facilities, instead of having, you know, wash our dryer every unit you've got a common facility.
18:25:50 That's just an example. So that's part of it.
18:25:53 Some farm worker housing amendments, some members to the Plan Residential Development section to incentivize it hasn't been used as much as we originally thought of when we
did the complaint back in over 20 years ago.
18:26:04 Really, when we did those regulations, some density incentives added to to that provision.
18:26:12 Some regulations are on congregate housing, specifically addressing boarding, housing, and other workforce housing ideas.
18:26:20 And essentially that in a nutshell there are a lot of individual components to that as well.
18:26:24 But it's a package that the planned Christian has been working on since I last saw you.
18:26:27 So congratulations on that and getting. And then that's essentially essentially my understanding of, as I ask you to do, pick out things that you think we could do this year
as opposed to.
18:26:38 I'm trying to tackle the whole big puzzle.
18:26:40 Yeah, and then we'll leave other things to do in the next year, perhaps, or another year.
18:26:45 So my shakes. A discrete set of amendment proposals to move through the process this year, and and as an effort, as one of the ways in which we're trying to address affordability
with housing and community, so those are the 2 proposals Mr.
18:26:59 Chair Udc. Amendments proposed by staff Housing amendments proposed by this is a legal process from which a decision will ultimately must ultimately result.
18:27:10 Both earl and written comments are allowed. Are there even comments written, admitted previously?
18:27:20 Planning commission will deliberate after tonight's public hearing is closed, and it just page completing, a recommendation to the voc on the content of the file blocket.
18:27:31 These are legislative proceedings and the Planning Commission will consider all comments.
18:27:36 And evidence for or against that docketing. The proposed suggestive check amendments to the comprehensive plan and unified development Code Procedural new process as follows,
in order to ensure, Hey, we are hearing comic courtesy the expected of all participants please, address the planning
18:27:59 commission, when presenting testimony, not the audience or staff.
18:28:03 The most useful comments are specific to the document. Proposal and focus on issues.
18:28:08 Not individuals, personal attacks, and your auditory language will not be tolerated.
18:28:14 No clapping, hearing, moving, missing, or other comments in favor or opposition to any testimony will be tolerated. Those who do not observe this practice will be expelled for
the proceedings. These mute all cell phones pagers and somewhere device this time.
18:28:34 Good planning commission will hear testimony, but not respond. At this time.
18:28:40 The forward is now open to the public. The Plan Commission will hear public comment in support proposition if they choose out 23 annual cycle of comprehensive plan and Unified
Development code text Amendments.
18:28:54 Your testimony is being recorded. Therefore, when you speak good by setting your name and address each person will be allowed to speak forrupt to 3Â min.
18:29:03 If you are attending online, please use the raise and functions.
18:29:07 So I could recognize you.
18:29:10 And I'll call the public group comment!
18:29:18 My goodness!
18:29:21 Yes, we won't have any voting of that.
18:29:36 I did receive a comment from local housing advocate, who said that they looked on the calendar or the hearing and didn't see it like they didn't see it where they're looking
for it.
18:29:48 So I made sure they had agenda, you know I'm just, but fortunately they've been pretty active in the discussions up till now, so I think there was an intention for people to
be here, and people aren't involved.
18:30:02 So we shouldn't be discouraged. We did. We do know that it wasn't, and we didn't check today and saw that it was in the papers.
18:30:10 So now in the paper. Alright! So there was at least that opportunity.
18:30:12 And again, just to clarify. This is just to set the docket.
18:30:17 We're we're actually right. Soon as hearing is over here, we're gonna talk about your recommendation.
18:30:22 We've got a draft letter that Joel started that August gonna lead us through, and if we can get to that place, then we're going to as soon as we get to that place essentially
where you have a recommendation, then we're gonna arranged for that to be provided to the board
18:30:34 along with the staff recommendation, and then we've already picked out a day in in May to have that start.
18:30:41 That conversation with the board, and they could choose to have a public hearing as well.
18:30:43 On, the docket, or they could choose to set the docket, and then the work that the real work begins.
18:30:48 In a sense, on analyzing, those proposals, and there'll be another hearing where people can actually talk about the substance of what's on the dockets.
18:30:55 I just wanted to bring that out to you so that you're to rest assured that it's not the end of the public process component of that.
18:31:08 Hi, I just wanted to say that I have had the opportunity to meet with Matt and talk about a bunch of the work that he's been doing alongside.
18:31:17 Joel, and I'm appreciative of all the work they're they've been doing to build some creativity and flexibility into our housing options in the community.
18:31:26 I know it's it's the biggest issue we're just part way through a strategic planning process for the county.
18:31:35 But one of the things that I did as a commissioner was put a lot.
18:31:40 I said, I'm just gonna invest a lot of my personal time into creating the right email list to get this email out for the strategic planning process.
18:31:48 And so we got an historic number from our consultants.
18:31:53 Perspective of responsive to that strategic planning process. This is meaningful to you guys.
18:31:58 One. The thing that came back is the number one issue that our county is aware of concerned about thinking about.
18:32:06 We did a a word. Cloud housing was like big, and in the middle of it this is the most important issue that we can be working on.
18:32:14 In our community as builders talking to Kevin and Ld.
18:32:20 As planning commission, talking to the work that you guys do.
18:32:22 It's the most important thing that we need to be working on is community.
18:32:28 And you guys are right at the heart of it. So I just wanted to say that.
18:32:30 And you know you're right. In the middle of the word cloud of what our community is right now.
18:32:36 And this is really important work.
18:32:38 I do. Let's see, I still don't see any hands up for anybody here who want to speak, so I will.
18:32:48 The public hearing and public comment. Period is now closed.
18:32:55 Again deliberations will take place tonight, and nobody attended.
18:33:00 Thank you. If you did. Yeah, I didn't see you.
18:33:06 Okay. So the next item on the agenda, his recommendation letter and the Plan Commission to the Border County Commissioners for the final docket, and Joel has created a draft
of that which she included with the just email to us everybody get that yeah, weirdly, labeled final Alright I don't know I think that's the only thing. That I think
18:33:43 that the opera's gonna lead us through this right? Yeah, we're trying to find the docking. Yeah, I'm not sure about. We do have what Joel left already.
18:33:48 Me and she put it up on the screen. It's really just a sort of a template of a letter that for you to look at.
18:33:56 So I think Joel is giving you a head start.
18:34:03 Hmm!
18:34:01 Essentially what I received is quite good and maybe that's something different. Right?
18:34:06 Does it look like this? Yep, that's it.
18:34:10 You scroll down to it, says required findings. Okay, just keep going down there.
18:34:15 It is hard findings for all those members. I guess we wanna.
18:34:22 So in a sense, like just obviously for the draft, we took the liberty of grafting as if you're going to propose these 2 suggested amendment packages.
18:34:33 You know, it's a just an assumption. But of course you make that decision.
18:34:37 So just whatever is said here, you can change it every any way you want it. It uses guidance, and we we can make and create a final document.
18:34:49 And how did you wanna do the site? I could read through it if it would make a little bigger.
18:34:56 Probably not. I didn't get low. Yes, and just if I might be lost, Mr.
18:35:03 Chair, if I might just suggest it would be because sometimes we get it.
18:35:06 I know that we can get into the words like deep into the words, I think, if you like, or you, you could solicit, you know, contributions or ideas, and then, as long as the plan
Commission essentially is an agreement about the direction, in votes, such so that you have it, then you enjoy I think
18:35:21 in finish the actual letter and finish off the webinar page so that you have it.
18:35:29 Then you, enjoy, I think, and finish the actual letter and finish off the learning. I think we all do is I gotta read this item by item, and then we'll address each item and
then move on, having decide if you'd like it, or don' generally for all proposed amendments.
18:35:42 The planning Commission shall develop findings and conclusions and recommendations and consider the growth management indicators and the first indicator is whether circumstances
related to the proposed amendment and or the area in which is located has substantially changed.
18:36:00 Since adoption the Jobs account, comprehensive plan, and the Planning permission finding suggested are a new circumstances present when they emergency ordinances were initiated,
namely, the covid pandemic created the urgency for developing break regulations to allow temporary
18:36:22 housing facilities, our work now, and this audible work now turns towards towards workforce housing, and to address well, how the affordability that's the answer to they have
additional change. The answer, yes, they have.
18:36:40 I personally don't mind if August just fixes things like that as we go, rather than making this torturous list that she has to go back to.
18:36:49 Oh, yeah, for work. Now.
18:36:54 And save oops, now I'll celebrate by saving.
18:37:09 Just kind of comprehensive plan it based are no one for belling, or with their new information available, which was not considered during the adoption process or any annual
amendments to the Plan land Commission Findings.
18:37:23 There is no indication that assumptions upon which the Comp plan is based are no longer valid.
18:37:29 We're conferencing plan documents, housing goals and policies at the port.
18:37:43 Is that there are no, I think we need to take care of that.
18:37:55 There you go!
18:37:58 I think document is a very there. So the comprehensive plan documents, housing goals, and policies which support the.
18:38:05 Yeah, with the wishes. Document document support that interchangeable.
18:38:16 We're getting kind of carried away.
18:38:16 I, I just okay. Next, the finding is whether it's back with that it'll drive me crazy.
18:38:39 Let's call it that we're good. Okay. Next item, free.
18:38:39 Whether the Post Amendment reflects currently current widely held values of the the Planning Commission finding is, there are a large number of organizations and a significant
amount of county resources dedicated to addressing housing the proposed amendment reflects a widely held value I think counties
18:38:53 residents. Public comments largely held that the county believes that people facing housing, challenging are an important issue to address.
18:39:03 Fabulous sounds. But let's move on I mean, I think don't get there. I think that gets there.
18:39:25 Yeah, I agree with everything more to find the findings that are listed. Okay. So if you want to do a quick, go on that.
18:39:28 Well, we we we've got, we've got the whole thing. Yeah. Well, we switch out.
18:39:32 We're we're held for, reflect or reflect for health.
18:39:32 So public comments large, and it will I mean, Heidi was saying.
18:39:36 It was a number one. But we don't necessarily want to say that, because it's not.
18:39:50 Findings, and we all sent to them. Get done talking about them that I'm assuming that we're going to be happy with it, moving on on the entire document.
18:39:58 Exactly.
18:40:04 Okay. Criteria, governing plan commission assessment, criteria, governing, planning, commission.
18:40:09 The Planning Commission's periodic assessment and recommendation should be based upon, but not limited to, an inquiry into, the following growth management indicators, one.
18:40:19 Whether growth and development as a vision and a comprehensive plan is occurring faster or slower than anticipated.
18:40:24 Or failing to materialize. Now findings are annual, confounded country, wide row, road, rate, evision in 2,004 comprehensive in the 1,004 comprehensive plan was 1.7 8%.
18:40:38 However, the current population planning projection, for 2,036 is point 9 7%.
18:40:46 Currently growth and development currently, growth and development is occurring at about the same rate around 1% annually.
18:40:53 That's kind of played in a comprehensive plan.
18:40:56 So we're saying, Yes, development is about the same with that.
18:41:04 Okay. Next hour 2. With the capacity of the county. It to provide adequate services.
18:41:14 Have they been, or Right Land Commission findings, levels of service in the 2,018 comprehensive plan can generally be maintained at the same level.
18:41:24 Your company next 20 year, population projection. There is recognition that level of service may not be sufficient in the provision of portable housing and living wage jobs,
and this may be a partial cause of the lower population.
18:41:40 Growth. We see, however, additional housing needs to be balanced with other priorities of our comprehensive plan, such as environment, agricultural protections, the lack of
housing, affordable housing, explorer political issues, capacity of the county to provide services is considered a is considered in the applicability standards of the
18:42:02 housing overlay. Yes, the word environment should be environmental.
18:42:08 So read, such as environmental analytics being able to be good.
18:42:44 Well, I think, after agricultural protections, delete the rest of the sentence, because it seems redundant, and it's.
18:42:58 Because I think the descent starts with additional housing. I mean, that's what we're talking about.
18:43:08 So that's what we're talking about. No lack of affordable housing and that puts some attention on the final sentence which is important to the levels of service like, Hey, we're
not gonna pay the whole county to do this basically we're gonna keep doing what we have you save that
18:43:28 thank you. Okay, so we're good with that section. Okay're going to Item 3 to say, No. One time we were doing this and Staff didn't like saving.
18:43:40 And then we had a crash and lost let me keep going. Yeah, okay, yeah, if you need to. With the best of interests I agree with, there's sufficient urban land is designated in
zone to meet the projected demand the findings.
18:43:52 Are there is a surplus of rural risk residential parcels in the county.
18:43:56 No, we're paying. That. We're planning additional urban development in the port handlock.
18:44:03 Iron dale, uga, being your services is important for urban areas or rural village centers would normally be developed at a scale and intensity to improve, to provide.
18:44:14 Excuse me, we did a scale intensity to possibly provide support services.
18:44:24 Normally.
18:44:30 It's totally okay to make this better, you know.
18:44:35 The we are planning additional. Oh, yeah, we know that should be the county.
18:44:45 Yes. But it's okay. It's a place to start with.
18:44:50 Your station currently and surplus. I mean, that's a strange word use too.
18:45:00 I kinda think that there's an adequate supply. A little residential parcels.
18:45:07 With this this is great. The educator is what is sufficient.
18:45:12 Urban land is designated in zone to meet projective demand, so I might ensure that residential discussion.
18:45:20 Residential lands. Here.
18:45:28 Yeah, it's like, it's answering a different question.
18:45:32 Yeah, I would.
18:45:32 Yeah, yeah.
18:45:37 Oh, I was just saying to eliminate the residential, just rural parcels.
18:45:44 We're happy to start. We're the county is planning additional urban development.
18:45:54 Not that. There you go. Yeah, and then capitalize the key and period being users.
18:46:02 And what are you okay? That gets good to go then, hey?
18:46:06 Cool. Yeah, we're not happy with that. Hmm, okay. Way to go. Okay.
18:46:14 I'm for. Were there any other any of the assumptions upon which the plan is based are no longer, and the findings are the comprehensive plan and the current housing task forces
and organizations accurately represent the current housing situation in the counties yeah, what are we trying
18:46:35 to say here we want to see if there's something upon which the we could say, No, no, hey!
18:46:46 Deceptions are. You know, all these things are valid, correct? No means.
18:46:52 They are valid right? There's a lot of double negatives right?
18:46:58 I think, no means. They are currently just say the assumptions upon which the plant based are valid.
18:47:07 Yeah, that's not changed it down below. Yeah, we're saying, replace the sentences there with, replace everything that Bill has.
18:47:17 There. So, if I may, I think that's all language right?
18:47:22 That the actual question. And so I think that it's trying to say it could be a just get or rationale for changing the actual question.
18:47:32 Yeah. And so I think that it's trying to say it could be a justification or a rationale for changing so I don't know whether that's applicable to the situation right?
18:47:36 You could also.
18:47:41 I mean? The answer is, no, this amendment is our best attempt to implement our apprehensive plan.
18:47:51 So to know. The exceptions are, we're not changing this assumption.
18:48:01 We're not arguing this actually said that it just said it's actually said that it just said it's actually said that it just said it's actually said that it's just set in a Java
right that it just said in a dry. Way, right so yeah, we want to speak directly.
18:48:15 Still no!
18:48:18 Asking if they're no longer valid. Okay? So we're good with that one item, 5.
18:48:25 Whether changes in the countywide attitudes this necessitate amendments to the goals of the plan and the basic values of body within the comprehensive plan, and you'll suggest
changes in the County Y attitudes are not evident amendments are not needed.
18:48:44 This time. Oh, no, it's talking about conference call and I don't know.
18:48:58 Get to change our business.
18:49:04 Changes are not needed this time, like you'll suggest it.
18:49:11 Huh!
18:49:08 We're good. With that the item 6, with their changes in oops.
18:49:14 Sorry Chris. Chris.
18:49:17 No, I didn't talk.
18:49:18 Okay, with the changes in and circumstance dictate a need for amendment.
18:49:25 The plannings are the covid pandemic revealed witnesses.
18:49:30 Weakness in our social systems, and heightened the need for community services, and how in solutions pretty good.
18:49:36 Yeah, yeah, like that. Anybody wanna change it? Nope, open? Okay?
18:49:43 Item 7, whether inconsistencies exist in the comprehensive plan, and the Gma or the comprehensive plan, and the county wide.
18:49:50 Planning policy for Jefferson County, the lines are, there are no inconsistency between the proposed amendment and the comprehensive plan. C.
18:49:59 Wpps, or the Dma. Good to know. Could you just change Cwpps to Cpp's?
18:50:07 And the reason why I say that? Because that's a more common aviation, and there's something else called.
18:50:12 A community while protection. Okay, taking's findings.
18:50:25 There's a regulation or action result in a permanent physical occupation of private property.
18:50:34 Good with that.
18:50:37 The next is, does the regulation or action require property owner to dedicate a portion of property, or to grant an easement?
18:50:50 There's the there's a regulation or acting deprived you are of all economically viable uses for the property.
18:50:59 Is a regular jury action, have a severe impact on landowners.
18:51:03 Economic interests? The answer. The findings are, possibly I do adjacent land orders may be affected.
18:51:11 Go ahead. Alright if you change how nearby land it's possible you could impact your business if it's not by land, it's possible you could.
18:51:22 That is not a.
18:51:26 There, I would say.
18:51:32 Yeah. Sit here. There may be. Well, we could say faster, maybe.
18:51:42 How about maybe moderate impact yeah, I wouldn't even say something like unlikely.
18:51:47 However, Jason Mayor's may be moderate with that.
18:51:58 Okay, yeah, I would be required unlikely the community meeting just like Prd, and then possibly unlikely.
18:52:00 And then what was that again for the rest of landowners?
18:52:04 Maybe moderately effective, excellent Jason landowners. Yeah.
18:52:13 Jason, I know it's may be moderately.
18:52:17 Community meetings are intended to mitigate any adverse effect, it just leave it this day to use it.
18:52:24 There. Okay, okay. Okay.
18:52:39 Or for action, deny a fundamental attribute of ownership, and their findings are possibly privacy, noise, light, layer, could be experienced by Jason.
18:52:51 Property owners. However, the code provisions consider this.
18:53:01 It seems extraordinary to me. It's yeah.
18:53:06 It's well, if somebody builds next to you that could happen I don't know. It's kind of basic.
18:53:10 It's yeah. It's well, if somebody builds the next to you that's kind of basic.
18:53:15 Yeah, it's well, if somebody builds the next team that could.
18:53:18 Have that. I don't see why they're changing. That would be if somebody builds a 25 or 25 pounds.
18:53:27 That's why I don't know if it's a little more than a little more traffickers like in one example, as opposed to just the 2.
18:53:32 Well, there might be a little more noise, a little more traffic, you know. Who knows?
18:53:33 There could be some impacts, but they're typically going to be very moderate and different for every situation so they have that music down before 10.
18:53:38 So people maybe shouldn't sit there. Maybe somebody shouldn't I mean, there's different things that I know.
18:53:44 I have to be careful about my music. I haven't had noise complaints, and it's something I think about.
18:53:53 I guess my concern about this sentence is, I don't.
18:53:56 I think those kinds of changes aren't fundamental aspects of ownership. Yeah.
18:54:06 And they are, I mean, that's the question. Does the regulation or actions?
18:54:10 Deny a fundamental attribute of ownership, and I would say no.
18:54:13 However, privacy annoyed, and light and glare could happen with the current regulations.
18:54:21 We have a proposed policy or regulation affects the land owner camera herself to rest on that. But you don't need that.
18:54:34 We're going to create your land. Yeah, like, where are you?
18:54:34 So we're sorting. You can't do something I don't think we're going to trade your land. Yeah, we're so we're sorting your property where we're saying you can't do something you
know we're not telling anyone they have to add more.
18:54:48 Houses, so far. So if we're talking about the actual primary property right that way.
18:54:58 But you know these are also the first one I I was thinking, neighbors on that, and this one I'm not is a fundamental attribute of ownership.
18:55:07 No. So you provided just bleed everything. But no there, and not include that.
18:55:13 Okay, no. It is okay, no way, not even okay.
18:55:21 Alright! Next topic is landings on the record. In addition to the guidance Provider, by Gma.
18:55:27 The calculator, wide planning policies in the county code, and the comprehensive plan.
18:55:32 What else is in the record with respect to the proposal.
18:55:34 Finding support from community organizations familiar with the proposal were considered.
18:55:40 And that's exactly right. Okay? And assertions in the record be confirmed by information.
18:55:48 From the sources. Findings. Yes, broad source. Materials were considered.
18:55:57 Stop me if you have a comment, is the decision we are about to make, based on the record. The planning start.
18:56:05 Yes, so the decision we are about to make, as far as we know, satisfied deeper criteria.
18:56:11 As far as we know. Yes, is a decision. We are about to make limited to the specific request at hand.
18:56:19 Any answer? Yes?
18:56:22 Okay.
18:56:29 So now we're going to vote on approval of these findings.
18:56:33 So with the vote, and I'll pull the Commissioners.
18:56:38 The Planking Commission recommends the Bora County Commissioners add housing amendments and Edc.
18:56:42 Audience, amendments. Wait, say yes, if you want to approve the this document.
18:56:51 No, if you don't, or if Steve, if you wanna stay and I'll pull the commission.
18:56:57 Arlene.
18:56:58 Yes.
18:57:00 Yeah. Then? Yes, Matt. Yes. Yes. Ld, yes. Well, Chris.
18:57:12 You still here, Chris?
18:57:14 I'm here. I'm sorry I had it muted. Yes.
18:57:18 Hey, Richard? Votes? Yes, so we have.
18:57:26 Thank you, Mister Chair. Okay. And we have 2 more agenda items.
18:57:33 One is possible. Cancellation of the May third time commission meeting.
18:57:41 What? So, yeah, just a brief comment here. I know that we talked about the first meeting of the first Wednesday the month being the one we would regularly keep, and then we
would decide whether we wanted a second meeting at any given month based on because of the peculiarities, the conflict
18:58:01 cycle and some other things we've, you know. We set this hearing on the second Wednesday, and there was another special meeting, I think, on the second Wednesday.
18:58:07 So we kind of gotten a little off cutter of that we're just wondering we were a Joel and all of that. We're just wondering we were Joel and Albert and I were talking about the
planning commission Agenda and what and we figured since we would if if
18:58:19 this activity were to actually go all the way just like it did and a boat were to occur.
18:58:23 Then we would be immediately turnarounding and concentrating on bringing this package to the board, and so maybe we wouldn't have much to talk about.
18:58:32 On May third. So we were proposing native, which cancelled but it was just a proposal for you to consider really good idea. And also you'd be close in your office around that,
too.
18:58:42 Results from the O. 8 meeting. For the accounting Commissioner.
18:58:51 's meeting. After that maybe we could get back on schedule with the second meeting in May, and and then when it comes to June, we'll get back on the first Wednesday being the
typical.
18:59:00 You know regular meeting without, but we we could plan on a second meeting.
18:59:06 You know the second one's the same thing. We'll come back with the conversation.
18:59:09 We'll talk about the conversation. We'll come back with the conversation.
18:59:15 We'll come back with the conversation. We'll talk about what we're talking about in the auditory. I want you to carry us.
18:59:17 So we I wanna revisit the discussion regarding excused absences and I'm still getting feedback that this this is very bad worried because it doesn't matter why you're absent.
18:59:32 It's not, that there's no excuse, no reason required.
18:59:36 Just I'm not gonna be there. No, it's pre knowledge. Just so, please let the planning commission desk know it's much if you're not gonna be there, and that's even better than
announcing at the meeting, because I forget.
18:59:57 Then it's easy. So that's all.
19:00:01 We shouldn't consider a verbal announcement at a meeting to be that we shouldn't consider a verbal announcement that we shouldn't consider a verbal announcement at a meeting
to be our it's difficult because it doesn't get documented it goes into recording but we listen to the recording right? So we should always use email with the PC desk.
19:00:19 That'd be, and we have it. We have it written down.
19:00:32 Last week got the last one. My head was still buried under work.
19:00:35 It was 70'clock before I looked up and realized I missed.
19:00:40 Still, I had the new problems that you're allowing your phone.
19:00:41 I do, and sometimes I'm just head down.
19:00:45 I have a related question for Staff. So we started getting a stipends.
19:00:50 I've gotten one. Check the check didn't come with any dates of that.
19:00:56 It was just an amount. So I'm wondering if and I've never gotten a second check.
19:01:02 Apparently invoices have gone in, and they take like years to process.
19:01:06 So I'm not really concerned about the money. What I'm actually concerned about is that we have some way to individually confirm.
19:01:16 Yes, I've got paid for these meetings, and right we cause I just got a check, and I just had a number.
19:01:26 It didn't say what date, so I would love it if I knew where we were in the process am I supposed to have a check-in second check or not? There's I don't even know that when
are they supposed to come?
19:01:39 So I can let you know that if I knew where we were in the process, am I supposed to have a check-in second check or not?
19:01:44 There's I don' what would be great. And so, because of stuff shortages, I'm not asking for this right now.
19:01:52 But if we each had our account in a way to just look at our own account, you know.
19:02:13 The way it's working. It doesn't. You don't get the dates you're being paid for.
19:02:15 Oh, in the document! It goes through the Auditors office.
19:02:20 It's a clean document. It doesn't have any details.
19:02:23 You're looking for alright, Joel, have you made you're looking for when he generates the voucher.
19:02:29 He knows what dates you're being paid for.
19:02:33 So it's some point he probably has on his screen somewhere.
19:02:38 Information you want. But I I would ask. We wait until Joel was a little bit off off under the water right now, with Robert, and I will talk to Joel next week when he's back.
19:02:51 He's on me right now, and we'll see we can at least get some answers to your question.
19:02:54 I do know there's it's been a lift off of that program.
19:02:59 Is that a couple of hiccups? Some of it is related to, you know, staff on our end, or at the courthouse.
19:03:04 But and right now the accounts fails. Part is one of those things that we're kind of scrambling to.
19:03:09 We're relying upon good, greataces of the finance manager for the county on a lot of things that we should be doing at the Department level.
19:03:17 But we're not able to do right now. So that is a factor.
19:03:20 As I mentioned, we have the administrative services manager position in place.
19:03:24 I know that's not gonna be, our relief, because for you, right away.
19:03:27 But I will at least answer the question of where we are in about in the presentation vouchers that you've already submitted.
19:03:34 See if we can get you that information that Richard just described in the Pdf. And send it back and say, Yeah, you're in the queue.
19:03:40 There was an issue with the change over from 2022 to 2023 so I think that might have held up the second batch of 22, maybe a one way to get the message across could just be
approach whoever's cutting the check and say hey?
19:03:54 Hmm!
19:03:56 You know it's been 2 months since week. Well, this invoice.
19:04:02 Maybe we could add the their meetings that's unlikely, and you know I think it, Jonah, doesn't work that way.
19:04:17 It's the only person that actually personally cuts the checks, and by the time it gets that far down the road it's way past what you're giving but I think it is helpful to look
at the day-to-day invoice for figuring out which
19:04:30 meetings, at least give me a report on where we stand at the moment when we are able to talk to Joel next week, and then see where we're where it left off, and where we need
to lunch, or just complete a task that we haven't been able to do so apologize back and
19:04:46 just eventually have some way of being able to look at what we get and know.
19:04:52 Did I get over paid? Did I get underpaid I don't even know.
19:04:55 I have no idea. Thanks for everything that you're doing for rolling with us through the process we're going to work every day.
19:05:06 Okay. So we're sound like we're done.
19:05:11 Thank you.
19:05:13 Goodbye. Everyone!