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Home My WebLink About051523 FW_ WSDOT News_ WSDOT seeks public comment for proposed roundabouts on SR 20 at Discovery and Kearney roads in Port Townsend (0002) ________________________________ From: Tom Thiersch Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 12:20:41 PM (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) To: Mark McCauley Cc: Greg Brotherton; Heidi Eisenhour; Kate Dean Subject: RE: WSDOT News: WSDOT seeks public comment for proposed roundabouts on SR 20 at Discovery and Kearney roads in Port Townsend ________________________________ ALERT: BE CAUTIOUS This email originated outside the organization. Do not open attachments or click on links if you are not expecting them. ________________________________ All sorts of elongated, oddly-shaped roundabouts have been used to overcome difficult situations where multiple roads intersect at odd angles within a limited area. Extending my original oval proposal at Mill Rd only a couple of hundred yards further to the south could allow incorporating the Discovery Rd. and Jacob Miller Rd. area into a single project instead of having two separate, closely-spaced roundabouts. Sorry, I don’t have the tools to draw a fancy sketch, but I hope you get the idea. This is a simple “racetrack” approach. This one is described as a ‘dogbone’. Surprised that Georgia’s (above) didn’t pick up on this ‘peanut’ theme. From: Mark McCauley <MMcCauley@co.jefferson.wa.us> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 9:29 AM To: Tom Thiersch <tprosys@gmail.com> Cc: Greg Brotherton <GBrotherton@co.jefferson.wa.us>; Heidi Eisenhour <HEisenhour@co.jefferson.wa.us>; Kate Dean <KDean@co.jefferson.wa.us> Subject: RE: WSDOT News: WSDOT seeks public comment for proposed roundabouts on SR 20 at Discovery and Kearney roads in Port Townsend Mr. Thiersch, I’ve drawn in two green geometric shapes on this map. One at Mill Road and Hwy 20 and another at South Discovery and Jacob Miller. Your oval Idea at Mill Road and Hwy 20 makes a great deal of sense. Our roundabout is a quarter mile away. Mark From: Tom Thiersch <tprosys@gmail.com <mailto:tprosys@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 9:21 AM To: Mark McCauley <MMcCauley@co.jefferson.wa.us <mailto:MMcCauley@co.jefferson.wa.us> > Cc: Greg Brotherton <GBrotherton@co.jefferson.wa.us <mailto:GBrotherton@co.jefferson.wa.us> >; Heidi Eisenhour <HEisenhour@co.jefferson.wa.us <mailto:HEisenhour@co.jefferson.wa.us> >; Kate Dean <KDean@co.jefferson.wa.us <mailto:KDean@co.jefferson.wa.us> > Subject: FW: WSDOT News: WSDOT seeks public comment for proposed roundabouts on SR 20 at Discovery and Kearney roads in Port Townsend ________________________________ ALERT: BE CAUTIOUS This email originated outside the organization. Do not open attachments or click on links if you are not expecting them. ________________________________ See my sketch of the larger oval roundabout. It is both “possible” and, as I said, a lot safer than the compact ones being discussed. It’s one reason the city is reconsidering the design proposed for Mill Rd. intersection. From: Tom Thiersch <tprosys@gmail.com <mailto:tprosys@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 2:49 PM To: 'debbie.clemen@wsdot.wa.gov' <debbie.clemen@wsdot.wa.gov <mailto:debbie.clemen@wsdot.wa.gov> > Subject: FW: WSDOT News: WSDOT seeks public comment for proposed roundabouts on SR 20 at Discovery and Kearney roads in Port Townsend Public Comment regarding these two roundabout projects. Regarding the proposed "SR20 and Kearney St." project: The only concern I have is that the proposed roundabout needs to do as much as possible to be safer for pedestrians; e.g., flashing markers alongside occupied pedestrian paths (these might even be automated using camera sensors). Regarding the proposed "SR 20 at Discovery Road" project: The proposed concept is a good start, but the design doesn't go nearly far enough to resolve the many existing issues of this intersection. The short segment outlined in green between SR20 and Discovery is currently dangerous, and it will actually be even more dangerous with a roundabout because the proposed design does not add any accumulator space there. Discovery Rd. is only two lanes, so traffic on Discovery backs up – often in both directions – as soon as there are 3 cars (at most) waiting in that short segment to go onto SR20 toward Port Townsend. That would continue to be the case with the proposed roundabout. The existing traffic light at least allows that segment to empty. But, with the proposed small roundabout, and with a heavy flow of traffic on SR 20 dominating the roundabout, there will be essentially no opportunity for that short collector to empty and Discovery will be backed up to an even greater extent. Frustrated drivers will, inevitably, make dangerous moves to get past that choke point. A much better solution would be to expand the roundabout into an oval, as shown below. This approach requires a short segment to be built across a parcel that is currently owned by Jefferson County, so purchase (or eminent domain proceedings) would not be needed, just an agreement with the county for an easement. The rest of the oval repurposes existing roads. The sketch belows shows what an oval roundabout might look like. The part outlined in red shows the segment that would have to be built on county property. With this oval design, there should be no issue of backups on Discovery Road, in either direction. Notice also how much easier it will be for the large trucks that enter and exit Mill Road. Parcel ID: 001162016 <https://jeffcowa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=cad59b765ee942d4b49077da70a4b131&find=001162016> Owner: JEFFERSON COUNTY Here is the parcel map with the segment to be added shown in red. I don't have the sophisticated drawing tools that WSDOT uses, so I hope the above adequately describes what I'm recommending. Because only the one short segment would need to be built, on land already owned by the public, the additional cost to change the proposed small roundabout to a larger oval roundabout should be minimal. Please contact me if you have any questions about what I'm proposing. Thank you, Tom Thiersch Jefferson County From: Washington State Department of Transportation <wsdot@service.govdelivery.com <mailto:wsdot@service.govdelivery.com> > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 11:53 AM To: tprosys@gmail.com <mailto:tprosys@gmail.com> Subject: WSDOT News: WSDOT seeks public comment for proposed roundabouts on SR 20 at Discovery and Kearney roads in Port Townsend <https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/fancy_images/WADOT/2020/10/3790029/olympic-peninsula-govd-header_original.png> WSDOT seeks public comment for proposed roundabouts on SR 20 at Discovery and Kearney roads in Port Townsend Comments will be accepted through Monday, Nov. 2 PORT TOWNSEND – People are invited to provide comment on two proposed roundabouts along State Route 20 approaching the Washington State Ferries terminal in Jefferson County. The roundabouts would replace outdated signal systems on SR 20 at Discovery Road and Kearney Street in Port Townsend. The Washington State Department of Transportation has created an online open house <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDAsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoi MjAyMDEwMTkuMjg5ODIwMzEiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2VuZ2FnZS53c2RvdC53YS5nb3Yvc3ItMjAtcm91bmRhYm91dHMvIn0.eD2Vjs1WMKcLiVXfOLVCF71v0xtK-7cGyRAX5-n4nl8/s/677273202/br/87092825382-l> for people to learn about the roundabouts and provide comments. Comments on the proposal will be accepted starting today, Oct. 19 through noon on Monday, Nov. 2. The existing signals have reached the end of their useful life and a new intersection control is necessary to keep people and goods moving. After evaluating the intersections <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJh bGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDEsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMDEwMTkuMjg5ODIwMzEiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3dzZG90LndhLmdvdi9wbGFubmluZy9zdHVkaWVzL3NyLTIwL2Rpc2NvdmVyeS 1yb2FkLWtlYXJuZXktc3RyZWV0L2hvbWUifQ.iAQ4YaXOYN_PbcgJnr_na-XAf49ozVdVvM-hkP7OkNM/s/677273202/br/87092825382-l> , WSDOT traffic engineers recommend compact roundabouts <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIU zI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDIsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMDEwMTkuMjg5ODIwMzEiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3dzZG90LndhLmdvdi9TYWZldHkvcm91bmRhYm91dHMvYmVuZWZpdHMuaHRtIn0.mfQ3RFu pAshtWav3FggiptxJNIBIQX6fcx1IZq2fS3M/s/677273202/br/87092825382-l> for improved mobility for all travelers, safety, and reduced maintenance costs year over year to taxpayers. The existing signals cost $10,000 annually on average to maintain. “Community input is imperative to the pre-design process,” says WSDOT Multimodal Planning Manager Dennis Engel. “It helps us better understand the needs of the community, while balancing the responsibility we have to maintain these intersections for all roadway users.” “The city appreciates working with WSDOT in advance of the public comment period to explore any potential intersection control improvements at both locations,” said Port Townsend Public Works Director Steve King. Online open house Information and a comment form about the proposed roundabouts will remain available through the online open house until noon on Monday, Nov. 2. For those who wish to participate but do not have broadband service, free WiFi access is available at these area Drive-In WiFi Hotspot locations: * Port Townsend Visitor Center, 2409 Jefferson St., Port Townsend * Dove House, 1045 10th St., Port Townsend * Port Townsend Public Library, 1220 Lawrence St., Port Townsend * Port Townsend City Hall, 250 Madison St., Port Townsend Additional Drive-In WiFi Hotspots can be found at www.commerce.wa.gov/building-infrastructure/washington-state-drive-in-wifi-hotspots-location-finder/ <http://www.commerce.wa.gov/building-infrastruct ure/washington-state-drive-in-wifi-hotspots-location-finder/> Comments will also be accepted by email, phone or letter to Debbie Clemen with WSDOT’s Olympic Region Multimodal Planning office. * Email: debbie.clemen@wsdot.wa.gov <mailto:debbie.clemen@wsdot.wa.gov> * Letter: P.O. Box 47440 Olympia, WA 98504-7440 * Phone: 360-704-3204. * To request a digital or paper copy of the intersection evaluation report, please call: 360-570-6600. Hyperlinks within the release: * Online open house: engage.wsdot.wa.gov/sr-20-roundabouts/ <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDMsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGljayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMDEwMTkuMjg5ODIwMzE iLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2VuZ2FnZS53c2RvdC53YS5nb3Yvc3ItMjAtcm91bmRhYm91dHMvIn0.YKTTEnhXCZyWeLsvRhMoj3lVGy2i34--wm2zrBdiSEY/s/677273202/br/87092825382-l> * Evaluating the intersections: www.wsdot.wa.gov/planning/studies/sr-20/discovery-road-kearney-street/home <https://lnks.gd/l/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJidWxsZXRpbl9saW5rX2lkIjoxMDQsInVyaSI6ImJwMjpjbGlj ayIsImJ1bGxldGluX2lkIjoiMjAyMDEwMTkuMjg5ODIwMzEiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwOi8vd3d3LndzZG90LndhLmdvdi9wbGFubmluZy9zdHVkaWVzL3NyLTIwL2Rpc2NvdmVyeS1yb2FkLWtlYXJuZXktc3RyZWV0L2hvbWUifQ.QQCQB9P797xu51FLptzX2TthfKUZ 1pau6v3JF0emsSc/s/677273202/br/87092825382-l> * Roundabouts: wsdot.wa.gov/Safety/roundabouts/benefits.htm 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sent to tprosys@gmail.com <mailto:tprosys@gmail.com> using GovDelivery Communications Cloud on behalf of: Washington State Department of Transportation 310 Maple Park Ave SE · Olympia, WA 98504 <http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?enid=ZWFzPTEmYnVsbGV0aW5yZWNpcGllbnRpZD04NzA5MjgyNTM4Mi1sJnN1YnNjcmliZXJpZD02NzcyNzMyMDImbXNpZD0mYXVpZD0mbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMjAxMDE5LjI4OTgyMDMxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NRE ItUFJELUJVTC0yMDIwMTAxOS4yODk4MjAzMSZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEm> ⷍꔠҠ飦﷝�ﺦ뷟ۛ閗㫎叺䶎丧烙䡳콉뼔⦆债뤃ꟴ稏ꝧ仩ꏻ潷牚哓犊슏⦀�○뗝㏔Ꮙࡂ穸説捻탗턗ᙪ㓫ᔼ虡�𔓔깔춒馌䚹␘ﰘɨ⇽딾봝矄ꑐ뫐Ꮛᵲ䅎ﶧ缧索쇳뱔ｋ愀齋᫽民軱ϟÿ勉⿱藽缮毴ݐ郐ÿ徫ᒥ﹃纭傔✇⯱䃾Ｓ묀蝜罼囐﵏ᔕｵሀ㼃뗻ﻈ῏⧲쏪ꋾ羲꣨Ψᣔ剺쀃仯緼ຩ蓐输胂켚薸᷇俱冶蔤�腜髩榋ߚ읂궏平혳☮侹椌彖푯뜦䳻溪낍ႎ柀Ѹ럤Ḙꃹ朎雄ﹷ뒰畗�髪Ⰹ⎐䦗挡ퟆ࿎㫢秗ꯡ䈽컊푷 ଡ଼ꦫ冚굮ⶹ퐈ú뤦п穸募⏕绕ꯕ橙孚떵跅샥澗�ꮻС帑겆譙ﷺꗟ㰀䝡縜ꈔ䬱ୀ燸ᐸ螴ꂰ禭뷞媯䍍㛻튠㎀쭜㮌쟯ꏊ봌䍇竍贤ꧥ쁳䵐⭹坪᪖옭械秭�筁㌺Ⓡ⊞鉟ꃈ鄊꓉홌桑授哋뢼춘匄☸ὖ苅ﰸ꯫矸畻綮冷螾篚腇窷ᴶ�閞櫌騗陎�袷ꔬ䎵煯鬦͡줳⤬㒶�⍧붷ﹷ넋놺僐⫟秇ⱱ犷Ᶎ఻徎筮ҕ숏㞀䰇榞ዐݲ굟脻꓉㙂໤驛眀ᴧ仳쏜瀤ꌩ겱ᒿͫ큂滮曌ɲ䒢裙ِ됾ᜁኇ쬫䟭虙�꒺猥ᆵ〆㥙ﶭ꫙幺ຟꞓ�쉛䎰耚꾱헺 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