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Home My WebLink About051523 EV charging at county parks________________________________ ALERT: BE CAUTIOUS This email originated outside the organization. Do not open attachments or click on links if you are not expecting them. ________________________________ [changed Subject of email] According to Google, the average RV uses about 20 kWh per day (to run the lights, heat/AC, refrigerator, consumer electronics, etc. ICE-powered RVs will soon be outlawed in WA, so they consume their normal load when parked and camping and will also need to charge their propulsion batteries, just like any other EV. The Ford F150 Lightning currently has a 131 kWh battery pack, the Tesla Cybertruck is expected to have 200 kWh. Many/most RVs are based on pickup chassis, so it’s reasonable to assume that they will have similarly-large battery packs. The RVs that are the size of a small house definitely will use all the power they can get! As shown in my quick .xlsx, a 50-amp service will provide up to 120 kWh in a 10-hour session, just enough to recharge your RV and keep its other, normal loads running. Not all EVs can charge at 50 amps Level 2, but a passenger EV like a Tesla sedan with a 100 kWH battery can charge at 48 amps and would not need all of the 120 kWh that could be obtained over a 10 hour period. In addition to considering what fees should apply to utility hookups for camping, the county may have to increase its load capacity from the PUD to service all those powered campsites if they’re all running at maximum capacity. Hope this helps, Tom Thiersch From: Matt Tyler <MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 11:09 AM To: Tom Thiersch <tprosys@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Bad links on "jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com" Ok good point I didn’t know that. I see numerous ones like that on Amazon too. Your spread sheet shows an estimate of the cost of this type of charging. I had not thought of this issue, also of the increase in EV’s that is coming, all looking for places to camp and charge. I will bring it up in the BoCC workshop today and talk it over with other staff. Thanks Matt From: Tom Thiersch <tprosys@gmail.com <mailto:tprosys@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 10:50 AM To: Matt Tyler <MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us <mailto:MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us> > Subject: RE: Bad links on "jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com" ________________________________ ALERT: BE CAUTIOUS This email originated outside the organization. Do not open attachments or click on links if you are not expecting them. ________________________________ Matt, Trust me, EVs can and do charge from a wide variety of connections. When I bought my EV 5+ years ago and public chargers were very scarce, I looked into all the possible sources of power while on the road. The 30-amp and 50-amp connectors at campgrounds are the same as used for electric dryers in your house. Depending on the EV, there are a number of adapters / cables that allow an EV to connect to those outlets, many without the use of a charger “box” on the wall. Tesla provides a simple NEMA 14-50 plug adapter as a standard feature; other brands offer it as an add-on, and there are lots of third-party solutions. For example, https://www.ebay.com/itm/404216850703 <https://www.ebay.com/itm/404216850703> “32A EV Charger J1772 Level 2 240V Charge Cable Portable NEMA 14-50” We’re talking about “Level 2” charging, and almost every EV sold is capable of use those chargers. Using a 20-amp 110V household circuit (“Level 1”) is of course an option, but you only get about 4 miles of range per hour so it’s really not a practical solution if you use your EV every day or only take very short trips! By the way, the new building code requires the installation of at least one NEMA 14-50 outlet in any new residential garage. The state will be 100% electric (including RVs) sooner than we can imagine, so it might be worth boosting the fees for electric hookups at county campgrounds. Last note: Public chargers (ChargePoint, Electrify America, etc.) all charge fees of at least 3 or 4 times as much per kilowatt-hour as the standard $.11 rate from the PUD, so even a $10 surcharge is a huge bargain for anyone charging overnight at a county park. Thanks, Tom Thiersch From: Matt Tyler <MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us <mailto:MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us> > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 10:10 AM To: Tom Thiersch <tprosys@gmail.com <mailto:tprosys@gmail.com> > Subject: RE: Bad links on "jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com" Thanks Tom, that is a good insight. I had not thought of EVs EV charging does use a lot of power. But I am not sure if an EV can charge from the 30 or 50 amp, 220 V campsite RV hookup. I think and EV requires a special charger for anything above a normal 20amp plug. From: Tom Thiersch <tprosys@gmail.com <mailto:tprosys@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 9:43 AM To: Matt Tyler <MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us <mailto:MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us> > Subject: RE: Bad links on "jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com" ________________________________ ALERT: BE CAUTIOUS This email originated outside the organization. Do not open attachments or click on links if you are not expecting them. ________________________________ Thanks, Matt. The reason for my question is that I don’t think that the $5 you’re charging enough for the electric hookup will not be enough to cover the cost of the electricity that would be consumed by an EV charging overnight. See .xlsx I think adding $10 (instead of $5) for an electrical hookup is reasonable and would be in line with what WA State Parks charges (“partial utility”). https://www.parks.wa.gov/166/Camping-fees CAMPING FEES Site Type Peak Season May 15 - Sept. 15 Shoulder Season April 1 - May 14 and Sept. 16 - Oct. 31 Winter Season November - March Primitive and water trail campsites $12 $12 $12 Standard campsites $27 - $37 $20 - $30 $20 Partial utility campsites $35 - $45 $30 - $40 $30 Full-utility campsites $40 - $50 $35 - $45 $35 Thanks for all you do to keep out parks great! Tom Thiersch From: Matt Tyler MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us <mailto:MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 9:00 AM To: Tom Thiersch tprosys@gmail.com <mailto:tprosys@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Bad links on "jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com" Hi Tom, Thanks we will fix those links asap. The RVC Pedestals have outlets for 50 amp, 30 amp. The 50 has two 120 hot wires so its 220 volts. They also have a ‘normal’ 20 amp GFI that you would find in your house. I attached the plans and specs. Please let me know if you have any questions. Matt From: Tom Thiersch <tprosys@gmail.com <mailto:tprosys@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 8:31 AM To: Matt Tyler <MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us <mailto:MTyler@co.jefferson.wa.us> > Subject: Bad links on "jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com" ________________________________ ALERT: BE CAUTIOUS This email originated outside the organization. Do not open attachments or click on links if you are not expecting them. ________________________________ Good morning, Matt. While exploring the information about some of the county’s camping sites, I was looking at Oak Bay on your page https://jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com/info/facilities/details.aspx?FacilityID=9911 and I encountered a couple of bad links that still point to the “countyrec.com” site instead of the site “jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com” “https://www.countyrec.com/forms/6269_4_upper_oak_map_2020.pdf” and “https://www.countyrec.com/forms/6268_3_lower_oak_bay_campground_map_v4.pdf” These should be updated when you get a chance to where I was able to find the maps at https://jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com//forms/6269_4_upper_oak_map_2020.pdf <https://jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com/forms/6269_4_upper_oak_map_2020.pdf> and https://jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com//forms/6268_3_lower_oak_bay_campground_map_v4.pdf <https://jeffersoncountywa.myrec.com/forms/6268_3_lower_oak_bay_campground_map_v4.pdf> One of the reasons I was looking at Oak Bay is that the proposed new fee schedule list some sites as having electric hookups. Do you happen to know what the capacity of those hookups is (voltage, amps)? Thanks, Tom Thiersch