HomeMy WebLinkAboutclosed_caption17:31:07 Recording in progress.
17:31:10 Hey, a call to order the November thirteenth, 23 meeting of the Jefferson County Planning Commission.
17:31:19 I'll share it with roll call. And.
17:31:26 Go ahead. You can start. It'll be Richard here. Mike Schultz.
17:31:33 Cynthia, Calendar. Our in. Mike Nelson. We have 2 new commissioners whether to say.
17:31:44 So if.
17:31:48 Mike, would you introduce yourself? Sure. You can call me Mike or Michael, whatever. Makes less confusion. Whatever you want, my friend.
17:31:58 Anyway, have a retired. License civil engineer moved up here 6 years ago. Hey, Marilyn.
17:32:07 And so on. But part of this, I've been coming to the meetings and. Going online to study.
17:32:14 Let's go. I have a little bit of background. You still decide to come. Thank you.
17:32:23 Yeah, hi, I'm Aaron. I am a relative, relative newcomer. Couple of years now, in Duchess of County.
17:32:30 But lifelong Washington. I'm not yet retired, believe it or not. My day job is as a policy analyst for the state.
17:32:40 And I work as a federal policy analyst. And so,'re kind of a level state level and relaying up local priorities.
17:32:51 Good piece of partnership. So I'm excited to do my local government here. Contribute.
17:32:56 In the next agenda, I'm received, of the agenda. Anybody have any concerns about the agenda?
17:33:02 Hey, on the agenda stand approved. I need in a second to actually pull it up. This is for.
17:33:13 November first today. This is the minutes for 10180, sorry. We just got through the agenda. Thank you. Okay.
17:33:30 So next agenda, that is the proof of the minutes. And we have minutes from October eighteenth. 2,008 3 go approval.
17:33:34 I'd like to entertain a motion to improve the minutes. There's a. Second. Mike.
17:33:43 In a discussion, wait for Cynthia to call it up here. Yeah.
17:33:50 Yeah. That's fine. All in favor? What I do that is, any of our commissioners online?
17:34:00 No, sir. Here we have 1 6 6 6. So. Approved.
17:34:14 I have a public comment, there's a comment period for items or not on the agenda. There will be a formal hearing at Football Contrary during the hearing.
17:34:25 For that item. So any comments for non-agend items?
17:34:34 Anybody online? Raise your hand. You wanna comment?
17:34:41 Okay, so will I close the public comment? Yeah, for. I think Matt just joined up also. Oh, Matt is joined.
17:34:49 Thank you.
17:34:53 There is. Okay. Can you hear us, Matt?
17:35:06 Yes. Yes, I can.
17:35:08 Thank you. Good. Item 5, transmitted information. You can send the agenda.
17:35:18 We do have to do consent agenda items. A letter from Joe and response memo from the consultants.
17:35:25 I like it. Motion to accept the consent agenda.
17:35:36 Any discussion? Those transmittals are dropped under the consent agenda. But yet they're public comment.
17:35:49 And I'm just kinda curious, and I don't really have a party that they're under that.
17:35:54 I just kind of want to know why they're there as opposed to public So we have public commentary that started on September twentieth and ended at midnight on October the fourth.
17:36:08 That's the comment period that is the record that we will be transmitting to the county prisoners along with year.
17:36:10 With your, recommendation on the Charlotte National Program. Other correspondence is essentially correspondence that we do our best to move to as quickly as possible.
17:36:20 We received a couple of things today. One of them I emailed out to you, the other one I'd already got the office. So I did it.
17:36:28 So where I get it. I'm not sure where to put it there. I'm not sure where to put it there. I'm not sure where to put it on the agenda.
17:36:32 The word consent identity is still kind of confusing. It's really just information that will passing on to you.
17:36:37 So yeah, my concern is that we approve that that we're adopting those arguments from those individual.
17:36:49 Well, I would actually go back and say, first of all, the whole idea of the consent agenda thing here is something that happened before I reached on your department. I'm not
sure why it's there.
17:36:53 Consent attendant I'm used to is when the board has a list of things that are actually approving contracts and those kinds of things.
17:36:58 So I really don't know why you approve that. It's really just information we're passing on.
17:37:02 So perhaps we could include the discussion of consent. And our workshop, decide we want to continue that or not.
17:37:10 Can I just make a very quick comment? But if you check the dialogue and our, that we made in 20.
17:37:18 1, 2, 2. We did include some clarification on the purpose for and the use of the consent agenda and it would this would fall under that.
17:37:30 We're just acknowledging that we. Received this information. We're not saying anything about it.
17:37:36 Although I've seen people floating on it, which confuses me, but maybe I should reuse it.
17:37:41 Please no, I know why we're voting to accept. What if you didn't, then what would happen?
17:37:49 Then, well, what happens is it's very disturbing actually. One of the is to remove things from the discussion at the meeting.
17:37:56 Is to make the meeting work better. But if people decide not to approve acceptance, then that can send agenda item is pulled out.
17:38:04 And then discuss at a later meeting.
17:38:08 Is how I work out. But if there were some reason, somebody wanted didn't want to, didn't want anyone to discuss it.
17:38:17 So just for the. When we send you things, it's not necessarily for discussion, just for your information.
17:38:22 There's a record because otherwise our minutes only have actions, any vote. So we're voting by to accept the consent agenda.
17:38:33 It's still a vote. It's just by acclamation. It just says nobody's, nobody has.
17:38:39 Raised an objection. So, so did they positive vote, an affirmative vote, but we have approved it.
17:38:46 So that means it shows up in the minutes as an action. And I think what was, I think the desire was that we have an acknowledgement of certain documents have come to the planning
commission and it shows up in the minutes for the public in our forests.
17:39:02 I didn't make it up. I'm just telling you. After many discussions about this. I think we can move ahead now.
17:39:11 We're good on that. Richard, just one quick question. So are we even though this is that these letters came in after the public comment, or are we required to accept them into?
17:39:23 Do anything about them? That's the whole one question I'm going to ask you. It's not part of the formal record upon which the planning commission has made their decision.
17:39:34 Becomes in after after the record was close. An open record hearing and then it's closed. These comments though could be relevant to the Board of County Commissioners.
17:39:44 So they're automatically forwarded. Along with your recommendations. We got to the board and they used them at that point.
17:39:51 So it's just correspondence if we gotta know on any subject we would just pass it on. Thank you.
17:39:58 Okay, so we have a motion second on the floor to accept the consent agenda. We see the credit agenda.
17:40:06 All in favor, raise your hand, including you, Matt. Okay, looks like we're 7 0.
17:40:11 . One in favor.
17:40:27 That gets us to regular business. And today, our regular business. Or is the comprehensive plan you you see enamic cycle.
17:40:37 Okay. Yeah, okay, that's going, the public hearing is not open regarding the 2,023 comprehensive plan and unified development code and unified development code annual amendment
cycle This is these are legislated proceedings, admitting our findings.
17:41:01 The recommendations to the Jefferson County Board of Commissioners. The planning commission to follow strict procedural requirements. Plank Commission will consider all family
testimony and evidence or or against proposal.
17:41:14 First, we'll begin with a brief presentation. Okay, proposed site specific zoning amendments. Do suggested amendments from the Plan Commission and Community Development.
17:41:25 Me no briefing at this time. The presentations will be followed by public testimony. Written and oral testimony would be accepted tonight.
17:41:33 Deliberations are not anticipated to be held tonight, but maybe. Is that discretion to chair?
17:41:40 The present period will close at the end of this hearing. Written commentary will go into this hearing.
17:41:47 And now we have presentations. Yes. I'm going to present it. Current point to go over the items on our docket that you are receiving comments upon.
17:42:01 Testimony to the record. And from personal check to see it.
17:42:14 But, were you going to comment on this part of the, okay, we don't have any people sign in, are in the room to make comment so we'll monitor our online zoom here.
17:42:29 So, next slide. George is gonna, yeah, yeah, running this. What we have for our docket for 2023 are 3 site specific amendment proposals from the public.
17:42:43 And a planning condition proposal for housing changes. And then the. Community development, UDC amendments for housekeeping.
17:42:54 And I'll go through each one of those. I probably won't be spending a lot of time on the site specific reasons as we've gone through that quite a bit.
17:43:06 Where I'm going to end up spending most of the time is to provide you with. And update to the work that's been done on the planning commission.
17:43:15 For housing amendments. And then at the end go through. The highlights of our UDC amendments.
17:43:24 So that's understand those.
17:43:29 Not all of my slides are gonna be readable. There's PowerPoints very difficult to too much text to a slide.
17:43:35 So they're just for reference and for my benefit of going through the presentation. So don't worry if you can't read something.
17:43:43 And as far as questions go. Let's say if you have a question to address the chair and.
17:43:53 And so I don't think you will have a lot of questions until we hit the housing part and perhaps and maybe we can open it up to more dialogue.
17:44:03 I don't want to take too much time away from our hearing. I have the feeling though that we don't have a lot of people lined up to provide testimony.
17:44:10 So, we have moved our general discussion part of our agenda to the end of the meeting to provide people with more time.
17:44:19 Provide testimony. So we're trying to speed up this part of it, but I am going to take maybe 15Â min in an introduction.
17:44:30 Okay, so what we have is, our, Muto resource land overlay designation.
17:44:36 That has gone through the planning condition through a hearing and recommendations to the board. However, as we explained before.
17:44:44 Growth Management Act allows us to amend the comprehensive plan one time per year, no more than one time per year.
17:44:53 And, so what we did is to roll this into our other 2023 comprehensive kind of amendments.
17:45:03 It gives us a chance to look at this amendment, not individually, but in the midst of all the other proposals, that's what GMA is encouraging is to do a cumulative analysis.
17:45:17 Review one time a year, but but not to have it. More off, Any questions about why we're talking about this?
17:45:28 Okay, so and then the next 2 are site specific. Let me let me stop and ask is there anyone online?
17:45:41 The, mild sand and gravel or the mineral land resource overlay. Good to speak a few words.
17:45:50 I don't think we have, Okay, let's move to the next one. It is the in Georgia and lost my.
17:46:03 Yeah, Sam. I reference here. Jamie and Alicia Gippard yet rezoned.
17:46:07 Of a rural residential 21 in 20 parcel to rural residential one and 5. And this up zone would yield 2 additional.
17:46:17 Residential parcels. Beyond the one that's already there because of the parse was size. And is there anyone online, Jamie or Alicia, are you?
17:46:31 Online too. Comment on this proposal.
17:46:39 Okay, we'll go to the next one. The third site specific rezone is Midori Farm.
17:46:46 Who leases property from the person under the name of MMJ investments. And they've been leasing this land.
17:46:56 It's zoned. Real residential. 5 and they would like to change it to average question.
17:47:02 That would give them more flexibility and it would help preserve agriculture in the counties. We recommend approval of this one as well.
17:47:12 And.
17:47:15 Marco, or are you online perhaps to?
17:47:21 Address the proposal directly.
17:47:25 Okay, yeah. Which is fine. I just wanted to check to be sure that our agreements, give them the chance to speak to the.
17:47:35 Let's go to the next slide.
17:47:39 This represents the 200 acre mineral resource land overlay that you have seen. The black colored areas are the existing mineral overlay and the red areas are expanding into
additional dental resources.
17:47:53 And, so this is comports with our companies and plan, policies to protect and make available our resource plans.
17:48:05 And It's compliant with GMA and planning commission had recommended approval in April with this year.
17:48:12 Next slide. And this is a rezone of 14 and a half acres to a plan. And as you've seen in the staff report, they're recommending it to people.
17:48:26 Designated as egg lands of local importance.
17:48:31 Next slide. And this is a map of the, yeah, property. It's 17 acres. So at residential one and 5 you would get a additional.
17:48:43 Tune, parcels. Our plan is to separate it pretty much into thirds. Of the existing residents is to like these and there would be a 2 additional residents.
17:48:56 We've reviewed, environmental impacts and traffic study. The traffic. Well, that will service and.
17:49:03 Things of that nature and as you see in the staff report recommend the preview for that.
17:49:08 Okay, next slide.
17:49:13 So I'm moving now to the Planning Commission Housing Project. And And I apologize, we didn't get all the way there.
17:49:22 We've been a lot of changes. And, and in, in the county and a lot of moving parts.
17:49:32 That we've moved forward on it but don't have lining line out text. To review.
17:49:39 And you'll see in as one of my recommendations, again, here is to continue this in 2,024 in light of our urban growth area planning.
17:49:49 And other legislative changes that might be coming forward. Will help us evaluate. So we haven't. Skipped anything, we're moving forward.
17:50:00 And this I just want to express. How far we are with this and some of the questions that we're running up against.
17:50:08 So in general, what we're looking at is congregate housing. And the rural residential planned rural residential development style of cluster development on single parcels.
17:50:19 We're looking at farm worker housing and. Also to enhance the plan road residential development code that exists to clarify some of the issues with bonus.
17:50:30 Dance.
17:50:33 Go on. A question about this project. Is it at a stage now? Where we can vote to include it.
17:50:42 Or should this hold off on it? I think your vote would be based on the recommendations. Of the staff.
17:50:51 Would be a starting point for your recommendations to the board. You can add to them. So it's not, recommending it in its current form.
17:51:01 No, it's not a complete project. The recommendation is to continue working on it in the 20 twenty. No work.
17:51:11 Yeah, so there's some contrary to those recommendations you'd want to. Okay, put those into the planning condition.
17:51:18 Okay, so, to begin with. We were identifying a rural low impact housing overlay. So the low impact part is the eco-EDU concept that the Planning Commission's been working on.
17:51:31 And applying it through an overlay, which allows us to apply a set of standards to. A parcel where those standards would fit.
17:51:40 Not, across the board and it gives us a chance to. Look at different areas where set of performance standards can be applied but not necessarily.
17:51:51 All areas. We were looking at. Cumulative development impacts.
17:51:57 And how you would have this floating overlay zone apply to single parsley and rural residential.
17:52:05 Parcels for cluster development. Looking also in that bonus. Dance, that might be applied or how it would apply to.
17:52:15 Next slide.
17:52:18 So we had a couple of recent changes in legislation that affect June May. His first one.
17:52:27 The second and gross Senate. Or a substitute house bill, addresses middle housing but it applies to more urban areas and it doesn't look like to Jefferson County.
17:52:43 They had some. Population thresholds. Also, we had house bill, 1337, allowing for 2 accessory dwelling units per lot, which would help with this concept.
17:52:54 But it pertains to urban growth areas only. And. It also provides that cities. Would allow most allowed to assist.
17:53:05 Doing that's on all lots. So, this doesn't quite fit what we're looking at for a rural residential overnight, but it's getting us.
17:53:14 Closer in our urban growth area to look at how we might apply. Additional density. Lots with clustered.
17:53:22 So that those 2 things have converged and we're. Go further with this planning and Next slide.
17:53:32 So, we're looking at how many people on one And, looking at how we can apply performance standards.
17:53:41 That would check that. Critical areas, effect in positively, looking at invasive species plans.
17:53:49 And. Other types of community oriented plans to come up with performance standards and incentivize.
17:53:57 Land improvements that would enhance the land. As well as add more density. Next slide.
17:54:08 So, I worked with the assessor data. I've had about 8,850.
17:54:15 Residential. Locks in Jefferson County. And, we analyzed the. The floor area, Paved areas to look at the level of impervious surface.
17:54:31 Residential parcels in Jefferson County. I took from that a subset to really 0 in on. Real residential one and 5.
17:54:44 And the reason being is those are the modes of constrained arsenals. And if we're looking at a cluster development on these constrained parcels, we look at our existing plan
rural residential development.
17:54:59 That says. That. Encourages people to come up with more innovative ways. To handle conventional development.
17:55:09 In a in a more efficient cluster. And so the question is, what is conventional development? So that's the next.
17:55:18 Line of inquiry that we went to here. So I picked out every parcel that was rural residential one and 5.
17:55:25 With the size of a half acre. To 5 acres. And, I'm, included the square footage in this title.
17:55:37 Currently in our unified development code. We are allowing up to 25% maximum of 30 a service.
17:55:46 That's what this red line represents. So we have percent previous surface. Square footage on the x-axis.
17:55:55 So you'll notice that these small parcels. That are under 10,000 square feet. Sometimes are exceeding the maximum allowed impervious service.
17:56:05 Our code addresses that. And says you if you're in a constrained person, you need it the best you can through innovative stormwater management.
17:56:13 Alright, so as we get that's intuitive as you get larger. It's easier to fall below that 25% threshold.
17:56:21 In fact, 25% of the 5 acre parcel would be a lot of impervious service. But you see some outliers here where they really.
17:56:29 Installed a lot of, service like multiple buildings and rows. Here's another way to look at the data.
17:56:40 The, the ex, let's see. This is, 2,600 parcels and looking at impervious surface.
17:56:50 Along the bottom is the, record number and along here's the size on the y axis.
17:56:57 So you can see what we're trying to identify is this gap. Under the red line, which is our 25%.
17:57:05 Of whatever size it is.
17:57:09 That is not an obvious surface and ask the question through performance standards, can we occupy This area with additional impervious surface by additional dwellings on individual
parcel through cluster building.
17:57:27 And not exceed the 25% threshold. So, it's still. Films up against the Growth Management Act saying you can have a residence.
17:57:37 And accessory, So we're looking at how can we justify. To GMA through the legislation or to Someone who may be an accountant that we can develop parcels more efficiently.
17:57:55 With better environmental outcomes. If we look at what's already allowed. To be covered and and stay well below that.
17:58:06 So that's kind of where this. There, there were, I mean, with all of these records that we're looking at.
17:58:14 Residential 5, tens, and 20. There there was a lot of data and what I saw was a need to do some statistical analysis with this looking at where things are clustering.
17:58:26 There's a lot of noise in this data. I ended up limiting it to 2,640 parcels looking just at par 5.
17:58:36 I pulled out all the things less than an acre because they were all kind of wildly.
17:58:42 Hey, variable. And so. This is our first cut at the data set and, some cluster analysis would be healthy.
17:58:52 Next slide. This is a flow chart that you can't read necessarily, but it is having to do with.
17:59:02 Water connections. So the next inquiry was looking at how many sites or in your cluster. Can you have before you run into wealth issues in our rural county, we don't have water
service areas everywhere.
17:59:17 Those are typically around our and. Our world commercial zones. So this is the start and it asks.
17:59:26 How many? Connections are we trying to serve. And.
17:59:32 And how many people, does it, is it trying to serve? And it it ends up pointing you to.
17:59:40 Also the type, boarding homes for example here. You end up being required by. The state whack is chapter 2 46 2 91 black.
17:59:54 Requires you to have a public water system for the types of developments that we might be considered. For example, the congregate housing.
18:00:04 Is going to reply right off the bat. That you have public water. Next slide. So we're looking at private wells.
18:00:16 What's the regulations around private wells? Well to party well can serve up the 2 residences on 2 separate parcels.
18:00:23 2 residences. And to 80 years on 2 separate parcels. 2 duplexes.
18:00:33 One duplex and second duplex, not duplex in the. So that's the level you can.
18:00:40 Gonna do these 2 party wealth connections. A duplex on single parcel would equal 2 residential connection so that you could have 2.
18:00:49 Now tiny homes. We the inquiry was how many tiny homes in this cluster could we though we're looking at environmental intact and curving a surface, what about well connections?
18:00:59 Well, You have 2 tiny homes. That's the same as the primary in accessory building units that we have already.
18:01:07 So this isn't a issue that. Is going to determine where we could apply this. Residential overlay.
18:01:18 It would need to. That's what they need to be. In an area with the water service area.
18:01:23 Connection to public water supply. Boarding houses, you gotta have public water system. A triplex.
18:01:30 Public water system. Next slide.
18:01:34 So then I began looking at, are limited areas of more intensive rural development. To see, well, are there water systems available where we might most likely need to have increased
residential rural residential density.
18:01:50 So we looked at quilting border service area. It doesn't cover the entire rural village center.
18:01:57 There are some areas outside of the water service area that aren't served. And so that might limit what could be done at
18:02:06 Right now, what's allowed in our code, you can have 80 years cohousing, intentional communities, manufactured mobile home parks, single-family residences, duplexes.
18:02:14 Multi-family 3 Plus. And they need commercial fire flow though for multi-family 3 plus.
18:02:22 And then unnamed residential uses. And that's foreshadowing. I'm gonna come back to this unnamed residential uses.
18:02:29 Next slide.
18:02:31 In the in Britain, we have no public. Order system. So, What you can do is.
18:02:41 80 years, single family residences and duplexes. And this unnamed residential use. So, it limits the housing types to those meeting.
18:02:49 Well, requirements. Looking at the UGA, which is. We at this point apply rural standards to the urban growth theory until sewer is available.
18:03:02 So at this point in time, we would look at the World Village Center standards. It has the quimper water system.
18:03:09 Same housing types of this quilting real village center with public water. And we can get additional density with sewer when that's available.
18:03:17 So that's the key. Factor to the urban growth area. In our general crossroads, which are pretty small.
18:03:27 Room commercial areas. We got our state route. 1920 is on the quiver.
18:03:34 It have manufactured mobile home parks or multi-family. Or unnamed, but it's fully developed.
18:03:41 Yeah. State route, 1920 general crossroad is where you call is. Actually, so not. Available for residential.
18:03:54 Neighborhood visitor crossfields. We've got Natsnats, Discovery Day, 4 Corners, Chimican and Gardner.
18:04:00 Or our NVCs or neighborhood district crossroads. We have water systems at each one of these.
18:04:10 Max, Max has Olympics, the limits, beach tracks, Discovery Bay is on mootel.
18:04:17 There's some question about how many people go can these small water satellites water service areas serve? Quinper, South Hastings at 4 Corners.
18:04:27 Jimmykins on the Quinford, which is a large system. Gardner has the Garder LVD one, which is a pretty smaller.
18:04:33 The water system. So, There may be some limitations on wired capacity. Or limited available vacant land.
18:04:42 When I look at Chin and come and look at vacant land, it's our laminar.
18:04:47 Has pretty much been covered or concluded additional residential development in much of that area. Next slide. I thought Brendan, said there's no water system.
18:04:59 Did I get that correctly? That's correct. So the PV owns the old, lazy sea water system that used to be on privately.
18:05:12 And there's That's Oh right, it does have a water system. So then, another line of inquiry is to, look at definition of family.
18:05:31 And I'll add here that, helped a lot in developing this background data. And. Looking at many different federal and state.
18:05:45 Entities that use the definition, definition of family. They are currently coming to the point of saying that it's really difficult to define family.
18:05:56 So many are just saying if there's any affinity between people, they would be included as a family.
18:06:04 Now, the state, the RCW 36. So along, 36 is the county regulators.
18:06:11 County can't limit the number of unrelated persons, occupying a house for dwelling.
18:06:16 There are some exceptions that there's a state. Cool. Says that we can't limit. So we need to update our family definition of family in our code, which says.
18:06:28 Currently that is up to 5 unrelated individuals in one household. The recommendation was. Any group of people with identity and common.
18:06:40 Living areas cooking in many areas could constitute the family. That just means. More people in that scratch in residential structure.
18:06:51 It doesn't give us that leeway to have. Multiple clusters on one parse.
18:06:57 Yeah, anticipate those those locations we talked about. Next slide. So, I wanna come back to that.
18:07:02 Unnamed use that I foreshadowed. What can be done in the UDC now?
18:07:07 So. You saw some of that in the table reviewing. Water systems and lammers evaluations of what can be done.
18:07:17 Our rural residential zones and real commercial zones that allow duplexes, multi-family, and unnamed residential uses.
18:07:25 And. And we discussed here the language potential for housing development is candy kind of limited. At this point.
18:07:33 So next slide. These unnamed residential uses. We can accept any proposal and evaluate it against our current code and state regulations.
18:07:47 And consider that through what we call a discretionary use process. We can't include every proposed use in our use table of the code.
18:07:57 We're always gonna have some projects that don't quite fit into any other box. So this process starts out as a type 2 proposal with public.
18:08:07 Noticing and public comment period to ask how would you deal with this particular unnamed use and the results then would be whether it's allowed, prohibited.
18:08:20 Or perhaps allowed condition later with certain conditions being met.
18:08:26 Okay, next slide. So, I went further and added and this is something you can't read.
18:08:35 I've struggled with this table in PowerPoint. Long enough to make me late here today.
18:08:40 What I've done is I've under residential uses. But I've added congregate housing.
18:08:46 And. These ideas of. Of a site-based, rural residential cluster overnight.
18:08:55 And. And.
18:08:59 Proposed conditional use review. Next slide. Nice question. So are we, are we recommending that that use table be edited this round or 2024.
18:09:17 Okay, that's what I thought. So this is all in preparation. The place. So, then.
18:09:26 The next line of inquiry was looking at our international building code. What's the IDC going to say, If you get too many Multiplex for example is going to be reviewed under
different standards and commercial standards.
18:09:42 So you've got fire, and you've got the number of other things that other people can name better than I.
18:09:47 It's a more expensive development so we're trying to find that sweet talk with what can be done.
18:09:53 Currently. And so. We're looking at definitions under the building code to see how our evolving definition would fit providing houses or congregate living facilities that go
into dormitories.
18:10:11 And then looking at what residential code they would fall under. I would R one or R 2 or R 3.
18:10:20 To try to find what building standards we would want to stay when you And. I don't have enough background.
18:10:31 On the building standards too. Summarize with you today. Of where we're trying to get to.
18:10:38 But. Looking at group R 3. We're off to these where occupants are primarily permanent in nature And our class of light is one or 2.
18:10:50 Do not contain more than 2 dwelling units or congregate living facilities, 16 or fewer occupants, boarding houses.
18:10:57 So we're starting to try to work our definitions into. Into the context of Okay. So here's where I'm ending the presentation on the planning commission's housing proposal with
these recommendations.
18:11:13 One is to continue development of the housing limit proposals in 2,024. Where we are building our docket primarily to meet the 2025 periodic review requirements.
18:11:27 And, number 2, clarify what types of housing and currently be done. To the UDC through additional.
18:11:35 Public information materials. So. Where we we can say to the public or we can inform the public. Of more opportunities perhaps than what they realize.
18:11:48 We do have, put a duplex point there, you can. Have larger family sizes. You can get down payment from the bank that is Some days are allowing multiple people to come together
as a
18:12:05 Yeah, so developing more public information. Around those options. We want to facilitate development of housing using stock plants to lower cost.
18:12:20 So this is another thing that I was looking at in the context of the Planning Commission's will stop plans.
18:12:26 And The, that we received include multifamily. Stock plans, duplex stock plans.
18:12:35 So we could see how that gets video too. To this. Particularly in the urban growth area where we've had multi-family options.
18:12:44 Oh, we want to review the 80 new requirements in the urban growth area and we're residential zones to see if any legislative changes that occurred might give us some additional
options or.
18:12:57 Amending our ADU standards to have different footprint sizes perhaps or Remove the requirement for parking.
18:13:05 Or other things like that. As I looked across the country, we all have pretty much the same.
18:13:12 Handful of 80 new standards that people apply and certain setbacks. And parking requirements in society, footprint sizes and communities have altered those in order to remove
some barriers.
18:13:24 So it's worth reviewing our landers again for our angel capacity and what public services are available.
18:13:32 And additional review of water service areas and water availability. There's some some recent information
18:13:41 I'm a environmental health department. Mapping out some more of these group. Be wells and chaired wells and small water systems that didn't go into my analysis.
18:13:55 And, and the last integrate applicable legislative changes regarding housing in our comprehensive plan. As we go through more periodic to be sure that we're up to date with
close and policies that will.
18:14:08 It's in the position of. Being able to implement some of these things. So. We're pushing forward and that's as far as.
18:14:20 Taking it as far as we can take it, recognition, it's hand raised. Okay, should we let Matt go and then go?
18:14:29 Yeah.
18:14:34 Yeah, we are muted.
18:14:42 Thank you. Yeah, I haven't been able to unmute myself, which is fine. Just to listen to presentation, thanks for all that analysis.
18:14:51 I did send a couple. Notes in the chat. Of my So you can look back on them later.
18:14:58 We don't need to spend time on them now. But in general, the idea is If I could reflect the original 10 of the proposal.
18:15:06 But the original proposal was looking more towards what people do on the who are using less resources, the least resources in our county when people choose to live that way.
18:15:18 What is that like? And I think it means things like, you know, not having a full hookup, not having laundry, not having Basically using very small amounts of water.
18:15:28 And so.
18:15:34 I'm wondering. Does something like a grey water system count as a full hookup. What are they? And I know this is all part of our, what we'll look into.
18:15:46 What are the precedents for small water systems? What is the definition of a public water system? And how do pilot projects fit into that if there's something new to create?
18:15:54 So that being said, you don't need to respond. I just want to file that comment. And we can move on.
18:16:01 Okay. So the primary recommendation is that we work on the things that follow. Next year, which I think is great.
18:16:11 I know it isn't as far as we hoped and I, I mirror or mass comments about. You know, what about the people who live on a lot less?
18:16:23 How do we help for that and give them something? And exchange. And that's sort of the question that I carry forward.
18:16:31 But I do really, you know, maths worked really hard on this. And that's sort of the question that I carry forward.
18:16:39 But I do really, you know, math worked really hard on this. Other planning commissioners have worked really hard on this, but I really want to, to give you credit for.
18:16:40 I know we wouldn't be this far if it hadn't been for your interest in helping us move the ball and I really appreciate it.
18:16:49 Okay, so let's continue to the next and last. Point in the power point. We're now looking at our UVC amendments and I'll just read off.
18:16:59 We have 12 of them that were bringing forward that you've seen in the staff report. There's greater explanation in the staff report.
18:17:07 But the primary ones are the first is the mapping the highway 20 visual corridor. That we've had as a policy and as a note in our Here you see to allow to reserve the 50 foot
buffer from the highway from 4 flag of the road up to them.
18:17:25 4,000 city limit. And so the way we have changed this policy. That came from 1988.
18:17:35 Which the concern was that there's going to be a lot of commercial development and we want to maintain the buffer or visual aesthetics of the area coming into, And we also need
to coordinate on.
18:17:50 Shared access because I'm a 20 is a limited access highway and we can really slow things down like dangerous with a lot of driveways onto.
18:17:58 So looking at footages, that utility, port doors and things like that. This puts it on the map.
18:18:07 But our comprehensive plan as a. Hi, way visual corridor, HDC. And we developed the code in 2,017 in advance of our 2018 comprehensive plan.
18:18:18 Cycle and it was tabled. So this is coming back again to establish the HDC overlay and have protective standards.
18:18:29 Or the visual port or it say about 20. So there's a buffer policy, vegetative buffer policy, but then also looking at industrial development and power going to handle utility
corridors and access.
18:18:43 It implements an existing comprehensive plan. Go over policy. Bye. See, I've got it.
18:18:55 Called out in the staff report. It's exhibit one dash 12, a summary of overlay, and 90 your zoning destination.
18:19:02 And so also. Exhibit one dash 24 land use action plan. On the complain page one that's 1.6 it says to make this and then update that so we're implementing that.
18:19:16 Next one. We have, repealing the overlay or the forest transition. Overly, we talked about that in years past and it was deferred to another time.
18:19:30 And so we haven't. Received any. Complete applications for a forest transition overlay. Yeah, and if it's implementation, it may be problematic with.
18:19:43 Giving up resource land to grow residential development. To create this transition zone. So. It is time to kind of pull this up again and it's also been our comprehensive plan
as a goal to repeal the forest transition.
18:20:02 And.
18:20:06 That's page 2 dash 30. Natural resources action plan to update the U. The fourth one is some code be added to consumer implementation in the urban growth area, allowing people
to go forward with development before sewer may be available and when sewer is available they're required to connect to the sewer system.
18:20:30 This would not allow them to have a occupancy. That's. So it gives people a little bit of time to build ahead of the sewer availability and then be able to occupy either certificate
of occupancy.
18:20:43 When they make their connection.
18:20:47 So, the next one is to provide temporary use permit for living in a recreational vehicle while constructing their own.
18:20:55 So they're there were some ambiguity about how we would allow that. It has been allowed. On a case by case basis, but really didn't have a mechanism to.
18:21:06 To permit and monitor. That kind of RV on a parcel. While they're developing a home.
18:21:16 So we added it to our temporary new section code, we're by the, for next one is to repeal the density.
18:21:26 Exemption that exists.
18:21:30 VALK and dimension standards of our code. This is an old thing from when we first did our zoning scheme in our 1998 company.
18:21:39 It's a plan that you already had on your parcel. 2 complete septic systems. It would be allowed to build 2 homes.
18:21:46 On those septic systems. We've since then, we've done a few of those, density exemptions in the past, not anything recently.
18:21:55 And then we've gone forward with our. Legal lot of record process. And so this part of our code is relevant anymore.
18:22:03 So we are going to take that section out. Next slide.
18:22:09 The next is just. Fixing some footnotes.
18:22:15 And, let's see.
18:22:19 And adding the text if a development proposal depends on 2 or more lots or parcels to be considered as one site for purposes of complying with code.
18:22:29 That you shall be. Good recording at Covenant. That permanently ties these sites together.
18:22:36 If you need. 2 lots to create your building site than this. This solidifies a policy that we've had that we need to consolidate those lines.
18:22:46 This is come from the 2018. So, the next one is, having to do with tide lands in clarifying or correcting some text that is now out of date.
18:22:59 To comply with. Chapter 79 and 50 eighth and in the world in the revised code of Washington.
18:23:08 The boundaries that are coincident with state-owned public plans may not be altered. With our.
18:23:14 Subdivision code.
18:23:17 Next is to remove an old reference to our critical areas ordinance when it was called the environmental. Sensitive area and was under an overlay.
18:23:28 We've we've deleted all those with. Not another. That's simple. We also had out of date appeal information in our 1840 in our permit appeal process.
18:23:42 That be corrected. Last is, Is adding in a clarification that under SEPA.
18:23:54 Hi, one, are categorically exempt. And then we had stated that type due projects or not, but we also have type 3 everybody to add in.
18:24:04 So just clarification. Last one here at the bottom is just saying that in our code it said that the standard of review or.
18:24:13 A appeal is, which means you start with a new record. That was written. Yeah, you caught that.
18:24:22 And, Those are the doesn't. UDC available proposals.
18:24:32 Thanks. Again, I hope I didn't take too long. It did take longer than I thought I would, but I think it, looking at probably the.
18:24:43 The public comments that it was helpful for you in tonight and in your deliberations next week that we go through this level of detail.
18:24:52 Any last questions before I sit down?
18:24:55 Okay, thank you. The public comments that we're looking for interested in now are related to the 3 scientific presentations.
18:25:12 Plus the 2 that Joel presented. Is that right? So it's 5. Topic that should be coming.
18:25:19 Okay, very good. You wish to speak tonight? And you are pinning the meeting remotely. Please indicate to the chair by raising your hand in Zoom.
18:25:30 Otherwise, you'll be called on according to the Chinese sheep located in the room. There are no one.
18:25:37 The floor is now open to the public. The Plan Commission will hear public testimony and support for opposition. Both amendments for the 2023 and then the cycle The Plan Commission
will receive testimony this evening, but we do not respond this time.
18:25:55 The most useful comments are specific to the proposal and focus on the issues. Common courage is expected from all participants.
18:26:03 Personal attacks, derogatory language will not be tolerated. No clapping, booing, or other audible indication of agreement or opposition is allowed.
18:26:14 Just the morning is being recorded. Therefore, when you speak, begin by clearly stating your name and address.
18:26:21 Each person will be allowed to speak for up to. 3Â min. You cannot yield your remaining time to another speaker.
18:26:29 Again, each speaker limited to 3Â min. Yeah.
18:26:35 Well, the comment period is open now. I just start with the online. People? Is there anyone online who wish to comment about the
18:26:47 No, I'm not saying anyone at this side of somebody in the corner has their hand. Oh, sorry.
18:26:54 I see.
18:26:57 Yeah, Jim, will, Jan, will.
18:27:11 Did you unmute yourself, Jan?
18:27:23 Okay, I think that worked in that.
18:27:26 Couple of quick comments. On the comprehensive plan. You showed a diagram of expansion of rock piss.
18:27:37 And it's very hard to tell exactly what's going on there. But it appears that you're expanding or considering expansion into areas that are very, very close to wetlands.
18:27:50 Lakes and creeks. And I would encourage you to take a very close look at that and rethink that in terms of wildlife use.
18:27:59 Particularly when you consider the noise, dust. Possibly lights and that sort of thing that go along with a rock pit.
18:28:08 And particularly the explosions. So I would really encourage you to take a close look at that. As to where those expansions are located.
18:28:18 And I'm not sure where this is. I can't tell from your map. It's not, it's not very.
18:28:25 Easy to figure out. It looks sort of like teal lake, but I don't think it is.
18:28:30 I think it's a wetland. Another comment on the 2 UD, the 2 ADUs heard a lot.
18:28:39 I would encourage you to think about a couple of things. One is if you're going to encourage A to use and I certainly do understand the reason to encourage them.
18:28:50 When we have housing issues or lack of housing. But there are areas where putting, you're basically tripling the amount of housing on a lot.
18:29:06 And I would really consider doing that. In areas where they're not going to be impacting wildlife corridors.
18:29:14 Wetland areas creeks. Now I know you have buffers, but what tends to happen And I thought the discussion about the impervious.
18:29:23 I really appreciate the work you've been doing on that and and your consideration of that. Frequently impervious surfaces.
18:29:30 Are one of the biggest detriments to salmon streams and when I say salmon streams it's not just the salmon and so everything else in it.
18:29:38 And what tends to happen is you change the flow patterns in those creeks. The, there's a settling pond.
18:29:45 You increase the flow changes. And you also change the temperature. So if you're going to include ADUs.
18:29:56 At the rate of 2 per 2 additional per watt. I would take a look at where you're going to do that.
18:30:03 And make sure that you're not impacting. The drainage system. And there's lots of examples around Puget Sound of where this exact kind of use of of impervious surfaces.
18:30:18 Yeah.
18:30:23 You wrap it up.
18:30:18 Has actually completely destroyed salmon streams. So I would really encourage that. Yeah, when you go through the process looking at these proposals, thank you.
18:30:32 Is there anyone else online? We should talk about the 5 items.
18:30:39 Yes, sir. Bernadette Olson and Darlene Shenfeld, both had their hands out, but no longer longer.
18:30:46 Okay.
18:30:51 Who earned it or Charlene wish to speak.
18:30:57 No.
18:31:01 Okay, anyone here who wish to speak on the on the comprehensive plan. We kind of.
18:31:17 It's like, You know, still the one online there, right? No, sir. Now, I'm sorry, Darling.
18:31:32 Okay.
18:31:32 I'm getting very confused here. I wanted to comment. The shoreline management plan. Is this the time?
18:31:40 No.
18:31:42 Okay, I'll wait. Thank you.
18:31:47 Okay, so the The public hearing is now closed. Public comments received after this time will be forwarded to the Board of County Commissioners for their consideration.
18:31:59 Before the decision.
18:32:03 The Alright, as a moment planning commission deliberations will begin at 5 30 pm next Wednesday. The planning commission will make fine.
18:32:15 Recommendations that should be forwarded to the border kinds of Is there? Yes. And maybe this would be a time to.
18:32:24 Insert that you do have the, to go forward to deliberations tonight. There are some. Findings in the staff report.
18:32:35 Which I've provided to each of you. For these proposals in the. D.
18:32:44 And GMA analysis, accumulated analysis that you could adopt. So. Depending on your comfort level and, where you might wanna take this.
18:32:54 We could go forward with work tonight. And then forego. Next week's deliberation, but I don't really know where you are in the your feelings about approving what.
18:33:07 Staff is presented to you. We've had a great deal discussion these topics, up until now.
18:33:15 So we may want to. Move forward on this. We have 30. Where do you feel about this?
18:33:28 Trying to take this night instead of having Meeting on the 8. I feel comfortable. I mean, we have reviewed these many times and commented many times and had lots of discussion
over the last while.
18:33:44 I do have a question about this packet of so this is the staff reports. Essentially, we would if we decided to vote.
18:33:52 Okay, to agree with the staff report. We don't do we stop to write our own letter?
18:33:59 Or would we give you the power to do that? Required findings. We call them the GMA findings.
18:34:10 From the staff report as planning commission. And what I attempted to do in drafting the staff report was to incorporate the Planning Commission's findings that are in your
application.
18:34:24 So this is kind of a melding of the 2 together. And so we could. You could say these findings are adequate to.
18:34:33 Reflect the planning conditions. Findings from the record.
18:34:38 Or had to them, too, I do.
18:34:43 We can work with them if you need. Just wait. I'm not sure. But.
18:34:46 To gate how to gauge your, well, let me, I, have, a, a, a.
18:34:57 Matt.
18:34:59 Okay, hi. It's I still can't unmute myself, without raising a hand.
18:35:05 And when I raise my hand, people don't always see. And I notice that happening with the I was just trying to chime in and I saw somebody I also put the raised hand but
18:35:16 I don't see any reason to. To pause on moving forward.
18:35:22 And that's really all I wanted to say. Yeah.
18:35:25 How's about to ask you that very thing. So thanks for getting, getting ahead of me. Mike, what do you think about this?
18:35:34 I would like staff to explain to me if you've made recommendations and gave us this document tonight. Why you think we should.
18:35:41 Move and approve this. Having not read this. Well, I'm not sure why you would not have granted, I guess it's been published in the paper this October 20 fourth.
18:35:54 I guess it's been published in the paper this October, twenty-fourth. Do you know your recommendation?
18:36:01 Yeah, it's been out for quite a long time. October 11, o'clock over 11, o'clock, o'clock, October, 11, o'clock, October, 11, o'clock, which is first publication and then I published
it the next week.
18:36:05 Was this on our web link to look at? Yes. Because I went through everything and I made copies and stuff and I don't have this so I overlooked it.
18:36:13 Yeah. And, also very added on our agendas. The last 3 months as well that tonight was going to lead.
18:36:21 Well, there's scheduling anyway. You're not necessarily in your packet. And we've been what I'm hearing you say is that we discuss these things.
18:36:32 Between your department and this commission. And your recommendations. So that's why what I'm looking for is you're recommending that we move forward on this as well as our
chair.
18:36:44 But again. I know this was at the beginning of the month. Of October, but I don't recall ever seeing this document.
18:36:54 And like I said, I've been through those web pages. Okay. So if it's on me, it's on me then.
18:37:04 That would be a reason to. They did not get sent to us this time. They got, we got a link and I just went to try to find it on the.
18:37:13 Turling, or sorry, not on the Shirley message, they're on the, it's they're just heard. They don't send them to us.
18:37:22 I also have Alright, Michael, thank you. Go ahead, man. Yeah.
18:37:22 One piece. I want to reference the comment earlier about, the, And. I just want to let the commenter know that we looked really closely at that and we've looked really closely
at every piece of this.
18:37:40 Extremely closely. And so that's the only reason why I feel comfortable with the individual components.
18:37:47 Yeah, Mike, the reason I Try to push it forward. Is that this? We discussed this at numerous meetings, direct, over the last year.
18:37:56 And this is a kind of a positive our findings. You're in those meetings. But there's staff information in here that I have not read.
18:38:10 And I, we've gone through every one of these things. Was applied to the comb. So I'm very supportive of it.
18:38:19 I just have a concern that if you've made a recommendation and I vote on something. That I'm voting.
18:38:27 Or something that I don't know. And if I'm representing the community. I don't want that to come back on this commission.
18:38:38 . I'm comfortable either way. So if Mike feels uncomfortable, I feel fine moving onto the SMP.
18:38:48 Deliberations for tonight and schedule for next week if you would get better that They're all interested.
18:38:57 Use the extra time.
18:39:00 We could have a vote and see what comes out. Should we do that?
18:39:06 I can make one quick comment just on the schedule that you see on your agenda. The reason why we proposed November.
18:39:13 8 as the next meeting. Is so that we can meet the deadlines that are in our own code about the company cycle.
18:39:21 We've got Thanksgiving coming up. We need to get this stuff to the boards. They can take action in December and they absolutely have to take action in December.
18:39:28 So that's why we are I mean, next week instead of the week after, which is normally when the phone can ship me just to clarify that particular piece.
18:39:36 So if we basically move the meeting of the fifteenth up to the eighth, then we can move forward on this more quickly, but it will give more time.
18:39:46 Let me let me ask one more question then. So. We're voting. Make a recommendation to vote on.
18:39:53 These issues that we've been going over for pretty close to 2 years, am I correct? Yeah, the vote is to approve.
18:40:02 Deny or modify. Findings that I referenced in the staff record are based on Planning Commission's application and what the county sees going on that it goes.
18:40:16 So those findings are the record that supports your vote. I'll approve. So it's your vote is really more narrow.
18:40:25 Then building. That this paragraph is good in this paragraph. Exactly. I'm sure better.
18:40:41 So then I would go along with the, commission if it wishes to move forward and vote on this tonight.
18:40:46 That wishes to move forward and vote on this tonight, through prolibration, if it wishes to move forward and vote on this tonight, through its deliberation, I think this is
a collaboration.
18:40:50 So, I can support that. And then I'll take the time to read this. Yeah.
18:41:00 Yeah.
18:41:04 We're at a point of looking for a motion to approve staff recommendations. For the Thank you. I so move and additionally my motion constructs.
18:41:18 That too, write whatever letter, send a letter. To their
18:41:27 I think there a second.
18:41:33 I can second it. I will. All in favor? Any additional discussion?
18:41:41 And if our new new members want to abstain, that'd be okay. Any discussion? Additional discussion.
18:41:49 Okay, all in favor raise your hand.
18:41:53 Or 5. Fire roll with 2 extensions.
18:42:02 . Go So, Joel, you go ahead and get the. Letter of consideration.
18:42:10 The recognition.
18:42:14 Okay. We're on item 7, final approval or recommendations on proposed amendments to the show lines master program.
18:42:26 The graph letter. I drafted my commission letter for transmittal the recommendations that the OCC has been provided by the staff and you have it in our packet.
18:42:38 There you go. Let's see. That's that's the findings. You're very beginning.
18:42:52 You know, we didn't. But we can pull it up on the screen. I emailed it.
18:42:59 Yeah.
18:43:02 So just to rewind a little bit if I may, Mr. Chair, so at the last meeting.
18:43:07 October eighteenth. And concluded deliberations by directing by essentially providing us the instructions to be able to prepare a complete Surely a master program amendment
proposal. So we had 2 versions.
18:43:20 We have one. That had all of the changes and the the annotations the comments and the Okay, order.
18:43:30 And then we also had one that was completely clean as requested. So we have 2. Master program versions that reflect the deliberations from the last time.
18:43:40 And then I was able to provide to find time to do this letter in addition so we could look at the letters essentially just transmits like your typical letter but I We're going
to include right now, but a list of all the documents that we would forward along to the county commissioners if that's what you so choose to do.
18:43:57 And then, but, but we wanted to have a final vote to make sure that, because we voted sort of issue by issue last time.
18:44:05 And then a final kind of direction. So I mean, I understood exactly what I. I needed to do together with a consultants.
18:44:13 So now we're at a point where you could simply confirm that. And then we would we would prepare that package and we're looking at if that were the case and we're looking at
December, sorry, November.
18:44:23 Thirteenth, I think, and the board's agenda and have a workshop. No, and then you can plan a commissioner with or anybody else be welcome to come and participate.
18:44:31 In that where we would transmit that recommendation to the to the board the chair could talk the vice chair or one of your designees if you will if you wanted to.
18:44:39 Essentially just brief the board on where we landed and then board would decide we would ask the board whether they wanted to hold public hearing or not or send they move along
to ecology.
18:44:49 So that could happen. Of course, it's your recommendation and if you could revisit any of the issues that you want to make your recommendation say what it says.
18:44:56 Okay, we at the last meeting, a great deal of discussion. We heard lots of local comment. And the group to move forward with the.
18:45:06 With the copy that we provide at the time. And I would, there's a great deal of interest today from the public concerning the SNP.
18:45:17 And. I, help me understand that the timing of this is probably Wrong that the content should be directed towards the VOC instead.
18:45:31 Because we're approving today the final. So, that's. Okay.
18:45:42 And my, your comment in fact you've got a lot of discussion leading up to the comment period you had a comment period then you had deliberations and you could just confirm your
recommendation moving on the board.
18:45:55 But you also could, you could also have all the common period and you, you could deliver it as you guys because again, it's your recommendation.
18:46:02 So that would be path B would be to continue talking about it. And then come to a determination. One, is to move ahead.
18:46:13 We've had a lot of public input and We've approved the sector as it was to submit to the OCC.
18:46:18 But I'll open it to the commissioners if you would like to continue to discuss this. Bye, either way.
18:46:29 I think we have heard from the public and we you know we might care a reiteration which is always you know, important, but I find it whatever the church.
18:46:40 Matt, what do you think? I wanna move forward in this or, here about public comment.
18:46:46 I'm unmuting, stand by.
18:46:50 They're getting you.
18:46:52 Yeah, thanks. I'm fine moving forward. I mean, we could discuss.
18:46:58 Any details have changed, but I think.
18:47:02 You know, we really went into detail in our last meeting. And I feel comfortable with that.
18:47:08 Nothing has changed from what we approved last meeting. I would say this, Mr. Chair, that because we had a public comment period earlier and it specifically said That was for
items not on the agenda, correct?
18:47:21 That it would it would be wise to open up a public comment. We take action. Just limited to like you normally do.
18:47:28 Thank you. Just it's not it's not a formal public comment period with testimony. It's just essentially comment before you take action like the board does before they take action.
18:47:36 Okay. So.
18:47:45 Okay, so open a public comment period, we get it to the SNP based on this list.
18:47:54 It could be whoever wants to talk to you. That was more for the public hearing. Nice.
18:48:04 People here will start with the people who are here. And then people who are online. Maryland?
18:48:23 I'm Maryland Show Walter at 1 5 9 6 shine load. It's good to see you in person.
18:48:29 Imagine this scenario. Shall they? With a shellfish operation of 40 acres. On one side.
18:48:41 The new guy. Let's call the first guy A, Mr. Allen, and the second one will be.
18:48:47 Benson. Benson. Comes and wants to add wants to form one acre on this side.
18:48:57 But, new acre, nothing's been done. On this side, other side.
18:49:03 Allen wants to expand by 10 acres. You. What your draft says is. This person needs to have a standard CUP.
18:49:17 It says, is doing an expansion of 10 acres. So, so Alan needs a discretionary. Despite the fact that
18:49:30 There's only 43,000 PVC tubes in one acre and 10 times that enough to get from here to Tacoma.
18:49:46 The. You're saying
18:50:00 These are different. But is it a difference that makes a difference?
18:50:17 Both are tide lands and
18:50:23 Never been.
18:50:30 So what is the distinction between a standard CUP and a discretion? The most important thing about a standard CUP is that is based on the record.
18:50:55 It can only take information.
18:51:00 And written record for testimony. There's no, off the record conversations that, one that is about.
18:51:17 The second most important thing. Is that it is decided by a neutral. Here we are. Trained to hear both sides and read the whole record.
18:51:44 The third most important.
18:51:49 Thing is that there is a public hearing. A discretionary PC, CUP does not give that to the public.
18:52:09 Nonetheless.
18:52:13 Yeah. In the same scenario in Hits up County, Cloud County, Mason County. Their citizens will get like to go to a standard CUP process.
18:52:36 The net result of this is that this favors the existing. Shells the shop reader. I wonder who that might be.
18:52:52 And it.
18:52:58 Yes, and in person who comes in and it disfavors the citizens of Jefferson County. Is that is my time?
18:53:15 It is. Yes, yes, okay. Then I'm gonna pass out to you. But 3.
18:53:35 I'm passing out to you 2 things. You're that I would have covered. Let me share this.
18:53:59 Okay.
18:54:11 You simply, Right. Okay.
18:54:31 Okay.
18:54:41 Maybe not.
18:54:56 One day.
18:55:02 Not a good King Bell, Bell Street, for Townsend. One of the reasons for having an SNP period update is to provide and I quote from the P ecology regulatory reform effort to
clarify and streamline the SMP. At least
18:55:33 On the agriculture section of Jefferson County's draft SMP, the opposite this happened. I see no piece of regulation.
18:55:46 With a perverting burden has been the key. Rather there's been additional permitting requirements and for good up agriculture and to get permit for any type of agriculture there
is now an additional extended list of required data.
18:56:07 In information that the county
18:56:13 Asking for. We're deploying for an agriculture permit or even a rear exception from a payment, an applicant is required to submit either a Java or receiver as part of the process.
18:56:40 Despite there being a long list of required information, in these documents the county is now wanting an applicant to then provide a duplication of exactly the same information.
18:56:58 Additionally, some of the information they're asking for is unfocused. When the general quest and it is hard to understand how the county or the adjudicate on the information
provided, EG water quality.
18:57:23 What aspect of water quality are they requesting? Dox's gym, water temperature, salon, to ability, pH, partial.
18:57:38 . O. 2, partial pressure of CO 2, frequency of powerful algae blooms The ask is not specified in the lack of clarity makes it difficult to gather the correct information.
18:58:01 The Kathy receives this information. What expertise does it have to process and consider? Water quality authority for show up or shackle culture is the Department of Health.
18:58:18 For the purpose of protecting human health. Showfish agriculture is a mature industry in Washington state and heavily regulated by multiple different agencies.
18:58:34 It is not helpful or necessary for counting to insert themselves into areas that are already covered and they have little or more expertise.
18:58:45 The County DCD is not over staff. And needs to focus on areas of county planning and regulation that are their responsibility and not other agencies.
18:58:59 Asking questions such as seasonal conditions, water quality, prevailing storm and wind conditions and size of harvest is not something they have expertise to provide.
18:59:20 Input on and as a waste of everyone's resources to require such information from the applicant. I do not
18:59:34 I don't play in chips and county for thinking of such badly written requirements. They didn't.
18:59:44 Rather they adopted them from kids. That could have neighbors with little or no or understanding with the consequences. The changes being suggested and the updates do not clarify
or streamline our current
19:00:11 And should be rejected. Thank you.
19:00:18 Thank you. Go to our online. Continues that Gavin has her hand up.
19:00:33 We'll go to Darling first.
19:00:53 Sorry, Darling.
19:00:55 Okay, thank you. I don't think Shan pulled in. I live in, Clean County.
19:01:13 And we do have a democratic. Approach to our shoreline management plan. And when it comes to agriculture.
19:01:56 Citizens are allowed to weigh in. They are experts, many of them. Or their attorneys are experts.
19:02:17 It will be taking steps back from transparent democracy. Disallow the to have a in this extremely important business of putting our marine ecosystems.
19:02:22 It doesn't matter. To the marine ecosystem. They just want a clean area.
19:02:23 And what will flow from Jefferson to The marine ecosystem, the animals in it, the plants, whatever, don't observe boundaries.
19:02:25 We need to have open transparency and the. Ability for the public to weigh in and many of them are experts. And I know several of them in your county and they are experts on
this.
19:02:25 Thank you. Yeah, and you'd call people if they. Yes, sir. Jim, Wald is next.
19:02:29 It's not a waste of time. It's critical that the public has a chance to weigh in and doesn't, and isn't forced into going to the shoreline. To the pollution control hearing
sport or wherever and have to show out money first. It's critical that they are allowed
19:02:32 . On mute.
19:02:30 I'm Jan Wald and I have lived in Jefferson County next to Squamish Harbor on Hood Canal for the last 10 for your new commissioner or commission members about 30% of all of Washington
tide lands are under permit for shellfish farms.
19:02:35 Hi, my name is Bernadette Olsson. I live, in Kidsub County near Chichupond. I happen to live right across from Jefferson County counties. Hood Canal doesn't have a boundary
like that.
19:02:35 Next we have a Bernadette Olson.
19:02:38 Okay.
19:02:36 And of all the shellfish farming, buoyeduct farming is the most destructive and is often located in areas with the most threatened After about 2 years of consistent wording.
19:02:38 Yeah.
19:02:37 So my neighbor when he wants to go go. To a conditional use permit, a standard conditional use permit.
19:02:39 That appears to be all of the public commenters we have online at this time. Okay. And the additional overcoming.
19:02:38 About requiring a conditional use permit. And a hearing for GUIDE form expansions, the wording was removed with about 4 days for us and the planning commissioners to be and
review it and make comments on it.
19:02:41 I'm very concerned that you have changed the draft. Do not require a conditional use permit at a public hearing.
19:02:40 So we as neighbor, we are allowed to. Putting our own inputs in there and see what the impact will be and If he was in Jefferson County.
19:02:41 Yeah, Okay. Now we can.
19:02:43 Especially when you say it is based on some newly discovered report from about 15 years ago that is out of date.
19:02:43 We would just not even know about it. We wouldn't even even be notified. That's what he's doing.
19:02:43 Closes public comment.
19:02:45 It will be strictly like that. I don't think it is a fair and democratic way to have a conditional use permit.
19:02:44 It feels like you are apparently ignoring around 60 of the public or more that have commented. On wanting to have the ability to have a hearing.
19:02:49 For these expansions.
19:02:48 Jefferson County just looked Thank you.
19:02:50 I can't really think of any other county projects that would have more negatively or more negative impact.
19:02:50 That would need a conditional use permit.
19:02:51 There's also a lot of confusion in Maryland addressed a bit of this and more of it in her letter.
19:02:45 Now we have this where they're going last at our last meeting. We had it. Josh, to generate a final draft.
19:02:51 There's confusion about what is an expansion. Because it's really not clear. And at the moment, it's it's not described.
19:02:52 The newly changed wording as of. Your last draft. On GUIDE farming for for no longer requiring a conditional use permit.
19:02:53 And a hearing is now inconsistent with neighboring Kitsap and Klow counties. So that asks confusion for everyone.
19:02:54 On a second topic, in cases where roadways are very unfortunately located in the 100 fifty-foot shoreline buffer.
19:02:55 I appreciate some new wording for the smaller width remaining buffers. Above such a roadway. It will help maintain the vegetated areas along our shorelines above roads that
are being rapidly.
19:02:53 Or the amendments. Good. He has done that. So as I understand this now, we're in a position to vote.
19:03:02 To forward our recommendations. The VOCC and to direct the chair to sign the letter of transmittal.
19:03:10 And you could go ahead. May I ask the question? Yeah. There's a couple housekeeping items where there's.
19:03:18 Miss. Phillips and out of order things in the letter. No, Well, it's a little late for that.
19:03:25 Okay. No, it's okay. I just didn't know if they were kind of corrected or.
19:03:30 Well, if they're We'll make sure it's right. Okay, yeah, I mean, it's just minor house, so I like I entertain a motion to.
19:03:47 For the chair to sign the letter from the middle and to forward the letter approval to the OCC.
19:03:56 That, that motion. Matt? Nope.
19:04:03 Here we are, It's a standby, man. I'm coming, Matt. Sorry.
19:04:12 Hang on.
19:04:15 Oh, now I'm okay. It's very frustrating like that. So where were we?
19:04:24 We're looking for
19:04:25 I would like to, before making a motion, I would like to let the people. Who commented know that we Looked at this in the last meeting.
19:04:33 It wasn't a surprise to any of us.
19:04:36 In fact, we asked for these changes because we're trying to
19:04:41 We're trying to find a balance between the different comments that came in from many sides the issue. We believe that we have struck that balance.
19:04:50 We asked the staff to help us. To help write it out the way that we'd envisioned.
19:04:55 Where the public always The public has a chance to comment. And of course, the conditional discretionary. Could go either way, correct me if I'm wrong.
19:05:08 It does not mean that there will not be a public comment.
19:05:13 And. It just means the won't automatically be one. And I do. Appreciate all the changes that have been made to the
19:05:26 To make it less like jumping through a ton of.
19:05:30 Hoops. I mean, it looked kind of confusing before. I think we. Clarified a bunch of language.
19:05:36 And it looks more simple. Clear, readable. I support the strong environmental protections. We're doing our best to support all the commoners with this.
19:05:49 And so that being said, I'll move that we. Send a letter of transmitter approving this to the county commissioners.
19:05:57 Thank you. Second. My, we have a second for Mike. Any additional discussion?
19:06:09 I agree with everything, Matt just said and I know that there's a lot of this, specifically with the.
19:06:19 And there's pros and cons on both sides of it. I want everybody to know that they have an opportunity when this goes in front of the county commissioner is they will be able
to go to them.
19:06:28 And, I don't know if they're gonna have an open public hearing on it, but they can certainly go in advance.
19:06:35 Those meetings, where will be finally approved by the county commissioners or not. May be amended, but there's still another resource for the individuals.
19:06:45 Of the community to go and talk to. Accounting commissioners about this but i think that the planning commission has done an excellent job with staff and moving forward with
this and I find that.
19:06:58 So we came up with some very strong reasonable conclusions on this. So that's I have the same concerns I had before, which are primarily about the use cable.
19:07:17 I know that we have existing GUI duck operations specifically in Jefferson County that never went through.
19:07:26 Conditional use permit process because it wasn't required at the time. And that now those operations could.
19:07:35 Expand. And possibly in with the discretion of the administrator have no public. Aaron.
19:07:49 And I think that seems arbitrary. And it concerns me deeply. So I already tried last meeting to get a motion to.
19:08:00 I already tried last meeting to, get a motion to, have, get the planning commission.
19:08:01 To see my point of view and I did not get support. So I, my plan is to vote against the trans.
19:08:09 Absolutely your choice. See we have a motion for seconded to forward our recommended SNP amendments to the VOCC.
19:08:18 All in favor, raise your hand, including Matt.
19:08:24 1, 2, 3. Okay. All against, raise your hand. 10 yeah, nothing you did.
19:08:37 Say 1, 2. 3, okay, it's right. So, 1, 2, 3.
19:08:43 It was 3 to 3. With 2 extent with, you voted, right? Okay, did one extension.
19:08:51 We do there. with the comprehensive plan and I'm trying to apply this to SNP and don't know if this to amend the comprehensive plan you need.
19:09:09 An affirmative vote from a majority of the planning.
19:09:14 So, applying that information to SMP, then you would need 5. The permanent votes. Or the motion to carry on this type of amendment.
19:09:25 Well, either way it didn't carry.
19:09:31 You would report to the Board of County Commissioners that generally this is the work that planet mission did.
19:09:39 This is the considerations and this was the. Pretty forward no recommendation. Okay. Did you get a comment?
19:09:52 I'm willing to vote for it if I could get agreement that the we change the, so that's what that is my The rest of the work is.
19:10:04 Is fine.
19:10:14 Mike? So what I'm hearing and it seems that there's some consistency to the majority here is that you're looking to adopt the same principles as kids at Mason County and Glallon
County that all, operations will require regardless whether it's expansion or, conversion or new to a, actual cup all the way through.
19:10:43 . That process according to the information I was distributed, Mason. Doesn't require a conditional use for it for conversions.
19:10:52 So that's actually. We would the current proposal is to require a condition use, for, and just the discretionary, so it looks like Mason must require another kind of permit,
perhaps a substantial development permit for conversions.
19:11:08 It's even less. One slight variation. And what you just say. Thank you.
19:11:11 I just am not gonna be able to still without. I'm out of line probably, but I have heard in this discussion.
19:11:19 Tonight some miss statements and if it comes down to the language that we use. And I just think it might be helpful to clarify.
19:11:28 I think we all understand it. As you guys been working on this more than piping. A conditional use, discretionary criminal is a condition of this permit.
19:11:38 The discretion is not whether it's initial use or money. The discretion is on the public hearing. Every traditional use commit has a public comment period.
19:11:48 And input from the public into the. The decision record. It's noticed and it's yeah, it's put out there.
19:11:59 So yeah, to be clear, I want them all to have the same standard.
19:12:02 Cause I've seen those distinction, and particularly since we have operations that have never gone through that process, existing and operating.
19:12:11 It. It just seems irresponsible to me to not ensure the public.
19:12:21 There's also some planning. That provides grandfather uses to those who proceeded permitting processes to continue and to expand to a limited extent.
19:12:34 . That's something that for the board to hear or I mean for attorneys to deal with. But there there is in the United States.
19:12:44 Granting of pre existing rights, people to continue. And so we have to. Grapple with that too.
19:12:53 I guess my point would be if if there's an existing operation that did not go through that process and they want to expand.
19:13:01 25% or more isn't that what the language says right now. That I don't know.
19:13:12 To me That's a significant percentage. It may be considerable land depending on the size of the aberration.
19:13:22 The rest of my can see. I, I think we, well, Mike, yeah, and guide me here, please.
19:13:30 Regulation. 1825070 relationship to other plans and regulations, which is our county code.
19:13:39 Says uses and development regulated by this program. May also be subject to other provisions of the JCC.
19:13:47 The Washington State Environmental Policy Act and other check with local state and federal laws.
19:13:54 Project proponents are responsible for complying with all her goal laws prior to commencement within use development or activity.
19:14:02 Where there where this program makes reference to any RCW WAC or other state or federal law or regulation.
19:14:12 The most recent amendment or current edition shall apply and then 4 in this event This program conflicts with other applicable county policies or regulations.
19:14:25 All regulations shall apply. And unless otherwise stated the more restrictive provisions shall prevail.
19:14:32 Does that mean the other counties in our area are more restrictive that under this particular item that our county must follow those other restrictions.
19:14:46 Okay, because under the shoreline management act each local government is required to develop its own shoreline master program.
19:14:55 If following the law and the Washington Administrative code or WAG. And actually ultimately under Unlike G.
19:15:03 Under the shoreline management, it's co administered by the Washington State Department of Ecology.
19:15:10 So ecology, it's co-administered by the Washington State Department of Ecology, so ecology, actually approve the SNP that a local government adopts.
19:15:13 So irrespective of what our board does. With your recommendation or non-, ecology will have the ultimate say on whether our program according to them matches the RCW in the
whack so, and whether our program, according to them, matches the RCW in the whack.
19:15:28 So, but back to your point, the RCW in the whack. So, but back to your point, Mike, it's not about what other counties or other cities are doing with their SMPs.
19:15:32 I mean, there is an argument to be made that is nice to be consistent, but we have no obligation whatsoever to be consistent with our neighbors.
19:15:40 And going going through the regulations, I came, I read this and I went, well, wait a minute.
19:15:43 So that's why I'm asking and that's why I need the guidance. Okay, thank you.
19:15:50 Well, looks like we need to create a new letter. Josh and it says that the planning commission could not reach consensus regarding recommendations.
19:16:00 For the SSP amendment. Is that correct? Well, unless we're willing to change our If we're all confined with our position.
19:16:09 I suppose, but if we were willing to change our position, we discussed this at great length at the last meeting.
19:16:23 And the end of the last meeting, it was consensus that we move forward with the last meeting. And the end of the last meeting, there was consensus that we move forward with
a draft that Joshua present has had made.
19:16:25 Since that last meeting we've changed our minds. We no longer approve of the draft that Josh presented.
19:16:33 So I don't think there's any more discussion necessary. We've already discussed the deck out of it.
19:16:39 Well, I haven't changed. Last at the last meeting and now we're not approving it.
19:16:49 We directed Josh to create a clean document. Thank you. I'm just saying that it doesn't preclude us.
19:16:56 This is the process where we could make a motion to change an element of what we sent forward to the board account.
19:17:06 Okay, can I get some clarity on something? So, you know, last our last meeting I had picked on, but the common buffer line question and and I'm trying to and I never got enough
information on this to figure out It talks about in this that that, for with.
19:17:29 But the buffer reduction buffer averaging vision enhanced criteria is pose the common line buffer be removed.
19:17:36 It says that provision should allow the closest setback. What does that mean?
19:17:43 Because what I'm, cause what I'm, here's my beef on the whole thing.
19:17:49 And I've seen this through a lot of personal interaction with getting permits for people is, and I have a house here, I have a house here, I have a house here, and then I have
a house here. I have a house here.
19:18:00 And then, and the current setbacks, I have a house here. And then, and the current setbacks mean that a house here and then and the current setbacks mean that a new house has
to sit way back so this house gets to look at the new house has to sit way back.
19:18:08 So this house gets to look at these houses and these houses that had originally had. So this house gets to look at these houses and these houses that had originally had private
back areas.
19:18:13 Now don't because they're back areas. And these houses that had originally had private back areas.
19:18:16 Now don't because their back areas are right in common view of the put in between and And nowhere have I ever seen.
19:18:22 Any scientific proof that adding that additional house in between as long as it's not too close because of and other environmental issues and anything that it's actually hurting
the environment.
19:18:34 So what is the? And by this, I, I don't understand the wording is too ambiguous for me to.
19:18:41 To quite understand what this is telling us that we'll be able to do. It's says it that provision would allow the closest setback.
19:18:50 Do you understand what I'm where I'm going with this? I'm trying because it doesn't get me any clarity and where when you draw a line between 2 basically and there's a common
line that's pretty clear but But then this is giving me any numbers and so I'm trying to understand.
19:19:09 I would refer you to the previous that goes into a lot more detail about this particular issue from the consultants and I think that was the biggest.
19:19:23 And I know when we talked about this in June. And I know what we talked about this in June.
19:19:25 And I know what we talked about this in June. The workshop. I'll just put it this way.
19:19:27 We were told by ecology in their comments that It was confusing. Which section you're using. We've got buffer averaging, you've got your typical.
19:19:37 Buffer reduction process where you have to demonstrate that you have no. No negative environmental impact or if you do that you mitigate them and then there's the.
19:19:46 Modest phone provision as well. And then we have this sort of legacy policies about. And so when you look at all these different things interacting together, the comment from
ecology was.
19:19:57 It's too confusing and how all this fits together. You have to provide some clarity about when each one applies.
19:20:03 And so we did our best to try to do that. And then when we got the letter from. Washington Department fishing wildlife.
19:20:09 Talking about their right pairing recommendations. That because at the point when we gave you the draft on September twentieth we were like well we can keep this section.
19:20:19 Or we, okay, we either delete our recommendations, either delete this section or if we're gonna keep it, we need to modify it so it's much clear how it.
19:20:27 Works together with a typical buffer reduction process, which is how we look at buffers throughout the rest of the code, talking about critical areas and other aspects.
19:20:37 You can if you have a modest encroachment upon that buffer, there's one process.
19:20:41 And if you have a bigger encroachment on that buffer? Well, there's a whole other process and you need to demonstrate.
19:20:45 That if you're going to do that you're going to offset those impacts by perhaps having a education management plan along that bluff or what have you.
19:20:53 And so, when then when we got the letter from Fishwall, like we decided, we decided that our recognition was gonna be that we just cut that section out.
19:21:01 And part of that analysis in that earlier memo was that Ultimately, when you look at, you know, view corridors, if you look at your just a regular buffer reduction system versus
this other system.
19:21:13 There really wasn't any material difference. So that's why we comfortable recommending this taking up the confusing element about the common.
19:21:20 The common, line setback. But we certainly understand. People with different opinions, that was what our condition was.
19:21:30 Yeah.
19:21:29 May I say something? I'm not sure. Well, I just think that,
19:21:35 From a process point of view, it's really important that we voted on these things. And we voted on them specifically with deliberation.
19:21:45 And But we instructed staff to do. Work for a period of weeks. And so I'm curious.
19:21:56 Why some members the commission would vote one way. To direct staff and then vote against the work that's produced at our.
19:22:03 Direction. I mean, I, you know, I whatever we come out with is what we come out with, but, the spirit of working together.
19:22:17 Is important and crafting something. I mean, the whole point of this is nobody likes the entire thing.
19:22:25 This is not meant to satisfy everybody. It's meant to be the balance of what What we believe is right, the right course for right now.
19:22:34 And.
19:22:36 And we debated a lot of those specific details.
19:22:41 I would mute, but it's hard to unmute. So I hope there's not too much.
19:22:45 Sound.
19:22:46 Stay with us, Matt. A couple of points. One is to be specific and clear. We did not vote on what to send forward to staff.
19:22:58 We had a discussion and staff asked for clarification and we didn't vote. Item by item. I made a motion on the issue that is at hand for me and no one seconded it.
19:23:11 So, I don't believe we did actually vote on my issue. We didn't we didn't move it forward.
19:23:18 Correct. Right.
19:23:18 The issue's been the same all along and I don't feel like I'm going against my my own integrity to stand by the issue that's been my issue all along.
19:23:29 Okay, thank you, Any additional comments? Their last vote was 3 in favor and 3 against as anybody thinking I'd change their vote.
19:23:39 If not, we'll, we'll call it good. I see no comments. Okay, would you please?
19:23:47 Bill, Josh, generate a letter that said the planning commission has no recommendation. Okay, I can sign that.
19:23:53 We can really tell them what the vote was as opposed to no recommendation.
19:24:03 Yes. So we have a couple of issues pulling it one way and then the other way and then there's 3 of us in the middle trying to you know, strike that balance.
19:24:13 Okay, so we're good on this so we can move to our next. Agenda item. Here.
19:24:22 Planning to mention updates.
19:24:25 Measures any updates for us.
19:24:30 Nope, next again the item, DCD staff, the drill. Oh, sorry. I can happen, right?
19:24:35 Yeah, well, long time ago, I had asked, staff. You look at the.
19:24:43 And we are use, for, I never saw anything since. I don't know if it's gotten updated.
19:24:54 And the reason I asked that it's better to hear me every day, with, and they were talking about water usage and I don't think the correct information was produced.
19:25:08 So I think, to allow the developer to, to know, as well as the homeowners what the MR use.
19:25:17 Are available, what have been used. And, so. Is there something that we can get for that?
19:25:26 So the ME, are you measurable? Usually referred to as E, ER, US.
19:25:40 But we're, and it's all related to, for the, all related to. The planning process from the nineties that resulted in the master plan resort at the development agreement associated
with that.
19:25:51 And there was a certain number of U the lake units that were designated as able to be built some commercials some residential and there's a complicated formula in a way to sort
of measure these out because there wasn't.
19:26:04 Wasn't certainty over time how exactly it was going to be developed over the plan but not But things can't change anyway.
19:26:12 So their department is responsible for this. Any are you count? The last official account was 2,018.
19:26:18 It's available. I can send you that. I had I talked to the planner who was the NPR planner David Wayne Johnson.
19:26:26 He said there's from his perspective there's been no significant change to the I told them that there's interest in the community.
19:26:32 I have an update regardless, even if it's not significant. And then, so we have a work plan to try to see how we can accomplish that.
19:26:38 We have a scope of work from a consultant. To dig into this issue more at the request of some members of the little community.
19:26:47 But when we went out to negotiate that contract, there was a significant cost to that. So we need to figure out how we're gonna pay for that.
19:26:52 How are you gonna pay for that? So the developer gonna pay for that? Or the PLVC and the Home Office Association's gonna contribute so there's some questions about how we would
pay for such a study or even whether it's warranted.
19:27:03 I will also say that when you're talking about water use, it's a little bit the separate issue because the water rights by the developers or anybody else participating in that
area are their own responsibility really through our our water resource program in Washington state, which is through the pharmacology.
19:27:20 So there are questions about water rights and whether there's sufficient water. Don't think they're they're married so tightly to the ME.
19:27:30 You question that was a planning process to establish the NPR back in the nineties. So I'm not sure if they're exactly equivalent and connected in that intimate way, but I also
may be speaking out of pocket there.
19:27:39 I thank you for reminding me. Sounds like we at some point we should come back and have an update on Portlando in general.
19:27:50 It's not about the development because there's been a significant amount of home development because there's been a significant amount of home development in that community
in the last 3 years.
19:28:01 That's been a significant amount of home development in that community in the last 3 years. But they may have been counted already in 20.
19:28:09 And address the issues. Okay, Mike? Yeah, sure. No, I'm just and I'm not representing village council or any of the homework associations.
19:28:17 Representing people who live in that community that have no affiliation with any other stuff and they're just worried about what's going on with their water right now.
19:28:26 There's a lot of panic in that community. Because the, obeying water and sewer.
19:28:33 Whether they're doing a good job, bad job, as a material, but people are getting a lot of complaints because they're getting bad quality water into their residences.
19:28:43 And the health department's been involved in it. And the concern that I have was a comment made in there is.
19:28:53 Our waters brown and the power to be, and, as he said, well, you drink Coca-cola, you drink tea, those are brown.
19:29:02 Well, that my tap water should not be brown. And that's what's happening. Not to a few moments that will lock in the North Bay.
19:29:09 So I'm just throwing myself up there. That's why I wanted to see. There are no other, planning, and updates, we'll move on to item 9, ECD staff and director updates.
19:29:23 Or jump in and say welcome again to Aaron and Michael. I appreciate you stepping up to volunteer and it's nice to have a full planning.
19:29:33 And so, our next. Meeting will not be November eighth. We can start. Well, it will be November 8.
19:29:46 So I call. Didn't we decide? We took care of it. Okay, yeah.
19:29:48 So, just. For scheduling. The fifteenth I have a question mark still but we're not going to be doing deliberation on the Do we have business for the fifteenth of November?
19:30:01 And discussing it to here helps the public keep in tune with where we're going. Is this time thinking on the planning commission retreats?
19:30:09 That's a good to that. Planet Mission retreat scheduled for January twentieth. And we're going to have the morning period.
19:30:19 I think it. I'm provisionally scheduling, from 9 to 4. So the morning period would be strictly the planning commission and we can talk about things like this consent agenda
question, we'll have some training.
19:30:36 Ethics and process and creating a good record and making decisions. And then the afternoon will be with a joint meeting with the board county commissioners to talk about work
plan.
19:30:49 So I should add in the morning, we would also discuss work plans so that you can be prepared for the afternoon to share your goals and aspirations and concerns and with the
border galley commissioners.
19:31:00 Well, that's that's the idea. And so put on your calendar the January 20. Or a planning commission retreat.
19:31:08 That's a Saturday. So appreciate. The new efforts to meet outside of the work we.
19:31:14 That's all I've got. I'm fine skipping the fifteenth of November. Well, Josh, then he comes up in the next week.
19:31:25 Let me know or, email me if something comes down if we can cancel it. Yeah, yeah, this is the time of year where things are moving out of the planet commission onto the board.
19:31:33 And, and it's, it's typical too. Did not have business. Unless there's something we can pick up again.
19:31:43 Whatever it might be you know we do we always have something to. We just wait until December first this is the first Wednesday in December.
19:31:52 As our next meeting. Okay. Okay, so then November fifteenth.
19:32:04 Okay, it will be in December.
19:32:11 Okay, just a note, I think, and apologies to Matt for the mute situation there, but what was happening that you missed perhaps at the beginning of the meeting.
19:32:25 Oh, horrible.
19:32:22 But what was happening that you missed perhaps at the beginning of the meeting is we were getting that you missed perhaps at the beginning of the meeting is we were getting
Zoom Phone, perhaps at the beginning of the meeting is we were getting that you missed perhaps at the beginning of the meeting is we were getting Zoom Phone again and so George was
valiantly defending our integrity and honor.
19:32:30 And so he did something so we changed some settings so that we could control a little bit more. How people participate because some of the participation was unwelcome.
19:32:38 So thanks for bearing with us on that. And then we'll try it. We're going to continue to investigate how we can use the tool better.
19:32:45 We might have to upgrade our subscription to get a better tool for meetings. It's just costly, so we've been holding back on that.
19:32:51 But. Have to look into it more seriously.
19:32:54 It has become an essential part of our public meeting. You know, the ability to interact and. I mean.
19:33:00 Working pretty good up until like 2 meetings ago or something. Yeah.
19:33:05 Yeah, it's important to be safe. Yes, for sure.
19:33:08 Elevate, planning permission or to a different level of access that would be more than we would grant to a general public.
19:33:19 That is how the board does their meetings. And so I think that's that part of the bell and whistle of an additional tool.
19:33:28 I also think it's a widespread thing that Zoom is dealing with and it seems to be an automated bot problem.
19:33:36 And so I've recently read a New York Times article about this. Interestingly enough that they're taking action zoom in.
19:33:42 Sounds good.
19:33:43 We do adjourn the meeting right now. We don't wanna be 3Â min over time. So this being adjourned.