HomeMy WebLinkAboutclosed_caption17:33:33 Here's what I'm going called over. The Walt Denver 1523 meeting at the Jefferson County Planning Commission.
17:33:42 And I'll start with the roll call, right to Kim.
17:33:46 So you're Thank you. We have one more commissioner coming just so you know, so. Bye.
17:34:04 You know, we can. We made some room behind us. Tommy, you don't want Yeah, I will see it on there.
17:34:36 So, You know, so I got that. Okay. And Richard is here. Alright, Lauren's here.
17:35:01 Matt, are you online? Not yet. Okay.
17:35:07 The next agenda is approval of the agenda. Are there any concerns about the agenda? Actually not see it.
17:35:14 I'm sorry. I don't know. Well, you have to look at Chris's with somebody.
17:35:25 I'm ready. No, on the agenda. So, Okay. It's being revised. It's the time. It's being revised.
17:35:46 It's the time. It's being revised. It's your client's going to change the other comment.
17:35:47 Yeah, it's about Zoom. So, so that's not on this agenda. It is basically the wrong time. Think I'm earlier.
17:35:51 There's 2, there's 2 public comment trades. One is for non-agenda items and one is for agenda items.
17:35:56 Agenda. I'm, it's now this is C and it will be B. And that's exactly mine.
17:36:11 If I'm not, we'll be here.
17:36:15 So, Plant Commission updates. Missioners have updates for us today.
17:36:34 I was just gonna mention, don't, don't, the, first things that the state building bill council, public period prior to Thanksgiving for next week.
17:36:51 So those of us who are interested or concerned, public period prior to Thanksgiving for next week.
17:36:56 So those who are interested or concerned, in the new codes or want to period prior to Thanksgiving for next week.
17:37:06 So those who are interested or concerned, in the new codes or want to have comment, that's the time.
17:37:12 The last opportunities I know right now for the March fifteenth installation of the new, 2021 ITC, Washington, and codes that if you don't know about it would be a good idea
to review it and understand it in case you wanted to come.
17:37:15 Okay. Second thing is that, stock plans, the city, and county that today to review the stop plan proposals and so that subcommittee is still moving forward.
17:37:29 We narrowed down setting I think interesting proposals that one could be benefit the public if we're still working.
17:37:36 Thank you. It's a good group and it's interesting. We're in more.
17:37:54 Okay. Alright, I asked Josh to circulate a last minute opportunity participate in this workshops on land use planning, old lady's planning.
17:38:08 We sent her every last week. All these I didn't know about it since that earlier. Essentially it was taking the actual again, the computer center, every document that, together
looking at all the land use strategies there and saying, okay, how, how did those line up with several different scenarios?
17:38:30 For instance, and saying, okay, how did those line up with several different scenarios? For instance, a scenario that's a kind of business that's, you know, much sand repentities
possible case, a scenario that's preserving rural spaces.
17:38:43 Kind of introductory, they look for a lot of feedback from local governments and others. And they're going to take all that feedback and then update the scenarios that they've
used to add another workout sometime. It's fair. So all that.
17:39:03 I think they are. They so it, is a consultant group. I think they're called roast.
17:39:15 That it was paid for by the National Estuary Program. Thank you. Okay, yeah, and director update.
17:39:26 Thank you, First of all, Thanks for your business about the room and everybody here. We usually have the name, the third Wednesday is very month and we were bought.
17:39:43 So I think it's an after action we do with the rough fire that happened down in the valley this summer is what it is tonight.
17:39:50 I will say though we defended our turn for next year though because or you might remember the last thing you're in this room, we got phone because of the board meeting.
17:39:57 And they had a plan through several meetings next year and I spoke with one of the staff at the board and it was a misunderstanding.
17:40:06 They didn't realize they were pumping us and so they've adjusted their plans so There's that.
17:40:14 Last time we got hijacked again at the beginning of meetings, like a zoom hacker.
17:40:24 And that was the reason that, yeah, we don't take the controls on the meeting. So like we could actually take permission for people to turn on their bikes.
17:40:30 It wasn't anything out that that was the only reason because we adjusted the settings that people who just and you understand my reaction.
17:40:37 Yeah, sorry about that. Well, no, we're also, we've upgraded our zoom account.
17:40:43 So next year we're gonna have sort of the zoom pro and even more tool to try to prevent such things.
17:40:49 You know, in the world we live in now, we have then off the hackers, but we're having suspension.
17:40:53 So is that? The last thing I will say is that the Why did to say that the board account commissioners this past Monday I heard a presentation from John Peterson about the planning
commission recommendation for the 2,023 conference, cycle.
17:41:09 And we asked the board where they wanted to accept the planning agency. Breckon, which finding agencies essentially is you and us.
17:41:18 Since we're our wanting us in this instance and they decided to accept your recommendation rather than schedule a public hearing.
17:41:25 So we're just going to prepare the ordinance together with the prosecutors office and that was taken care of.
17:41:35 That's it.
17:41:43 No, we're, I'm 60 agenda, public comment for you. There will be 2 public commentaries today.
17:41:49 The first one I'm saying is for comment about items that are not on the agenda. The SNP comments will be later.
17:41:59 In the. Meeting. Is there anybody here who wish to comment on items that are not on the agenda?
17:42:11 Hearing none, I'm sorry, over there. Oh, this will be online. So, so that public comment period is close.
17:42:23 Next agenda I'm regular business deliberation on proposed amendments to this county's shoreline master program as part required to argue.
17:42:33 And, 3, 4, 8, 5, this, I handed out an extra, papers, that we get after last week last meeting, but I didn't really appreciate what it was.
17:42:46 You have one that put it on your table. And read my hand this out. Is it a lot of what we're going to talk about today are conditional use.
17:42:57 And, consulting was very thoughtful. In sending as a focus bullet point explanation of the similarities.
17:43:07 Between the 3 that could say traditional use permits was the administrative discretionary or standard all have in common the following 3 meaningful requirements.
17:43:20 And so I have one. Yeah, It looks great, the similarities in the 3 and they're actually quite similar in many initiate aspects.
17:43:32 Don't want to start off the same page of understanding. About these cupps the administrative Discretionary and the standard.
17:43:41 Okay. Background. Sure, thank you. Just be real brief about this.
17:43:56 Just wanted to catch us up to where we are today and for the back of those who may not have been participating.
17:44:02 So planning commission. First started talking about the Shoreline Master program some time ago. 2021 at least.
17:44:12 And then sent off a version of a proposal to the our ecology, the co-administrator of Charlotte Masters.
17:44:22 College, you took months to respond. Providing series of comments in all 2022. We picked the issue back up this year.
17:44:32 Got additional funding from college to do so. So we have a series of things happening in June. Workshop and some other discussions.
17:44:42 And then we ended up with a public hearing draft or in August. And then we ended up with a public hearing draft or in August September 20.
17:44:48 For a public hearing in October, October fourth. And then the, so we had public hearing. And then in response to those hearings, those comments and so forth, staff worked with
the consultants to prepare another version which the, plan was discussed and delivery applied on October eighteenth.
17:45:10 You know, at that time. Directing staff to make a few changes to produce some sort of a final.
17:45:18 Potentially a final version to vote on on November first. We were short, some members on that day and and there's also some issues unresolved and so as a consequence.
17:45:31 But, do not reach a recommendation. We were prepared to. Move forward to the board without plan.
17:45:35 The, sensing the courthouse was that let's get the plan for another try with the full membership in attendance.
17:45:43 Yeah, incorporation for that. Staff work with consultancy. I mean, you are here today with us as well.
17:45:52 To prepare a staff report, date November tenth that goes over sort of the final remaining issues that have been unresolved.
17:45:58 And even offer some alternatives, a couple different options that you could consider. So essentially I would if you if you want to know this effort.
17:46:08 And is at this point I can tell you that otherwise I really love to help you to consider that 3 options for the first 2 issues.
17:46:19 I have 2 options for the last issue. It does work through tonight and go through these issues. See, people a lot of emotions to move in any different direction.
17:46:27 In fact, the play of your colleagues are the same. And so that's the intent is trying to get through these last things and then as a final action, see you need to only take
the phone and proposed a recommendation to the board.
17:46:39 I remember there may be members of that don't know or don't like certain aspects and there's always possibility of having a minority report or something like that or just participating
at the next level of having a minority report or something like that. We're just participating at the next level of the board to express.
17:46:49 But our sentence you have about so I just that's not unusual. It's happening before, so of course it'd be nice if we had a So that's really all I want to say.
17:47:03 You were prepared to walk through this. So it's up to you what you want to do. There's folks here that, probably want to comment.
17:47:10 So. We already have a public hearing, so everybody knows in that record or even a, but something, but we all know how to explain before.
17:47:18 Themission takes action. So that's why. You can do it at any moment you want to do it now we could walk through the different options you do with them, whatever your pleasure
is.
17:47:28 We need the option to do with them. You know, we need the option to walk through the options.
17:47:36 We need the option walk through the options so the public knows. Yeah, I think that's the best way to do that. And so I know as well.
17:47:38 Well, I read through them and I want to make sure I have them correctly. So I know as well. Well, I read through them and I want to make sure I have them correctly. Okay.
17:47:43 So let's do That's up.
17:47:45 In the power over to Lisa and Amy to walk us through the table. Okay, it's been prepared for the.
17:48:01 Good evening. Can everyone see the chart?
17:48:05 Yes. It won't.
17:48:08 Okay. Yeah, this is page one and then I'm going right to the chart. Which is page 2 And as Josh mentioned, we have sort of a summary of the comments by major topic, some options,
and then we've left this final column.
17:48:28 To fill in with your recommendations and as Josh mentioned, there may be some things that we didn't put here that the you may want to discuss.
17:48:38 But this was our understanding of the major issues. So I was gonna have Amy walk through the conditional use permit for GUI DECK operations and then the aesthetic standard which
are on this page and then I'll pick up on the next set of topics.
17:48:56 Okay, thanks Lisa. So the first one that we wanna talk about tonight is to take another look at what level of conditional use permit.
17:49:08 Is required for kind of different classifications of GUI duck aquaculture and and just kind of as a reminder and for those who may be new to this.
17:49:18 And the Washington administrative code requires a CUP for new GUI DECK operations and then leaves to the local government's discretion.
17:49:29 Whether or not they also wanna require a conditional use permit for conversions of one type of aquaculture to GUI Doc Aquaculture.
17:49:39 And then it doesn't really speak to expansions of an existing GUI. Duck aquaculture operation.
17:49:46 And so, and we've tried a variety of different approaches. And the one that was presented most recently in the November one draft.
17:49:53 Shows that both new. Well, just new, new GUI DECK Aquaculture would require a conditional use permit that includes automatically a public hearing.
17:50:08 And then conversions and expansions. We're both, assigned a discretionary conditional use permit, which means that, depending on staff review of the application and a variety
of other factors.
17:50:26 They may elect to require it hearing, or proceed without one. So we've gotten a variety of feedback from, local and nearby property owners, from the producer community.
17:50:43 And A couple other options for consideration based on feedback that we've gotten is, if we don't do what we're currently proposing is that perhaps we would shift the expanded
Do we deck operations and treat them the same way as we do new GUI DECK operations.
17:51:04 So a conditionally use permit with a public hearing. And then just leave. Conversion.
17:51:10 So existing aquaculture of some sort converted to GUI DEC, aquaculture.
17:51:16 Leave that in the discretionary conditional use permit category. So that's option 2 and then kind of a third option based on a lot of feedback is just to maintain all GUI.
17:51:30 Aquaculture, new conversions and expansions as that standard CUP type, which again requires automatically a public hearing.
17:51:39 So those are kind of the 3 options we've presenting tonight for your consideration.
17:51:50 Do I just want me to keep going on the next one or is there, I didn't know if we're discussing each one as we go.
17:51:56 Go ahead and discuss them all. I think it will. Okay.
17:52:00 And then come back. Okay. The next one, the GUI DECK Aesthetic standard.
17:52:08 In the current SNP, there is a, a provision that says that the county may require a visual analysis and it doesn't provide a lot of details to as to what that looks like or
what it is.
17:52:22 And for aquaculture operations. And then over the course of. The past couple years of feedback and input that provision kind of evolved into a little bit more of a mandated.
17:52:37 A visual analysis with some additional details to sort of explain and this was in response actually to staff comments like what does that mean?
17:52:47 What what would that look like? What's it consider? And so that was kind of expanded a little bit.
17:52:52 And converted into a requirement. And there's been a variety of comments from the producer side of things.
17:53:02 Noting that they think that may be going a step too far and that it may be consistent with the Washington administrative code.
17:53:12 And so kind of some things to point out. Regards to consistency with the whack are a couple different provisions.
17:53:19 And One of them. It does say that aquaculture facilities should be designed and located to a couple of things and then to make sure that they don't significantly impact the
aesthetic qualities of the shoreline.
17:53:32 So that's kind of one of the first mentions of aesthetics and aquaculture.
17:53:38 And then there is also a provision which says that when you have a conflict between water dependent uses and aquaculture is a water dependent use.
17:53:48 And aesthetics or views that. The water dependent use would have priority. But. The details of that are that if there are irreconcilable conflicts and so an aesthetic analysis
seems like a great tool for identifying whether or not there is first any conflict at all.
17:54:11 And then whether or not it's irreconcilable, perhaps there's things that could be done on the aquaculture side of things to resolve the conflict while still maintaining, their
use.
17:54:24 And, and then it also says that she'll have that the water dependent use would have priority if there is an irreconcilable conflict unless there is a compelling reason.
17:54:35 And so that kind of is a another reason that, it seems like aesthetics ought to be considered is to discover whether or not there is a compelling reason.
17:54:44 In that aesthetic visual analysis would kind of be an important framework from which to make that kind of a decision.
17:54:51 And analysis. So. Some of the different options we came up with considering all of that is first just to maintain our current strategy, which again is to require a visual analysis,
but also noting that if for any particular application GUI DECK application or other aquaculture application if the element that's required, including the visual analysis.
17:55:17 It's just demonstrably not applicable. Then a applicant wouldn't need to provide that information.
17:55:24 So, that's kind of one. Oh. Variable, I guess. And then the other is that again, as I mentioned at the beginning, the county's current SNP has it as kind of a the county may
request.
17:55:42 So if it feels like there's potential for conflict or there's you know public comment to that effect then they might decide to request one so we could remove the mandate for
the visual analysis from the application requirements, but incorporate that still as a consideration.
17:56:00 When the county is sort of making a decision about. The conditional use. Permit.
17:56:06 How or if to condition it and those in those types of things and so there would be an added criteria that just sort of alerts the county to.
17:56:18 To remind them I guess that that's an important consideration and that they'll look at it. There's other provisions in the SNP that say if they if an analysis is necessary that
they can kind of at any time asks for additional information if they need it.
17:56:36 In order to address the requirements of the SMP. So those are kind of the 2 options for the aesthetic standard.
17:56:47 And
17:56:48 Chair, these are the 2 that related to GUI D and the other parts of this memo get into other provisions that are more about the residential use.
17:56:59 Okay.
17:56:59 So we can keep going or if you want to pause here since these 2 are both related to GUI.
17:57:05 We can. Stay right here.
17:57:07 I have a question. But I think that's a good idea to pause. IN. Then the rest after our Our discussion is.
17:57:20 I had a question. I think I've answered it in my own mind. Reading this like 3 different times.
17:57:26 This section on aesthetics. I was confused by the whack reference that that put aesthetics together with.
17:57:35 Designed and located so as not to, spread disease to native aquatic life. And I'm like, what does aesthetics have to do with?
17:57:43 Friday disease. I think it doesn't. I think you're just including a paragraph that it happens to mention both.
17:57:52 Yeah, yeah.
17:57:58 Yeah.
17:57:51 Is that, do I have that right? Okay. Okay, I have to read it like 4 months.
17:58:00 We click light on. And I'm gonna move the public comment for you, from where it's listening to the agenda.
17:58:07 To right now. And this is the public, it's the commentaries for the SNP update.
17:58:14 And well to coordinate with the people online, the people here. You guys kinda interrupt me and when someone online is there and we'll go back and forward.
17:58:29 Thank you. Instead of looking. Yeah, that's a good idea. Well, the suggestion was that if you say, we'd like to speak, we absolutely move.
17:58:44 Over by the door so we can see it better. You'll be all right. Okay, Thank you.
17:59:06 My name is Marie Golfrey. I'm a resident of Discovery Day and I'm here on behalf My name is Sally in San Diego.
17:59:21 I have been a discovery big resident for 9 years. And I have been a discovery, for 9 years, and I've witnessed firsthand the detriment.
17:59:33 And I've witnessed The Discovery Bay Taylor selfish operation was labeled as unauthorized in 2,021 by the Army Corps of Engineers despite telling the county otherwise.
17:59:47 Its beginnings and expansion were documented from 2,016 to 2,020. It was brought to the attention of Jefferson County in March of 2020.
17:59:49 No action was taken on the part of Jefferson County. With the aid of the Florida, we became aware that the expansion beyond 25% occurred without a CUP or eternity.
18:00:00 In August of 2022 the Army 4 of Engineers issued an after the fact earning. The DUCK operation was installed from January, 2023 through September kind of the.
18:00:15 The impact on the shoreline in Thailand has been drastic. This is not an aesthetic issue. This is not a. This is not a.
18:00:19 And this is not an ESTAGE issue as sharpish producers claim. As landowners, the downward, erosion and potential saltwater contribution of our upward are our greatest concerns.
18:00:28 The New York operation has not only disrupted the national natural ecosystem, but it has disrupted and permanently changed the literal cell.
18:00:35 This time land is now higher in elevation. Our beaches, you don't need to be to the sand.
18:00:41 The best sand is drafted north of the operation. This drives and defeats everything south of this newly formed snasp.
18:00:47 We have lost 3, 4 feet of our uplands through the erosion. We recently lost a very large, manable tree, in this erosion, and fear that others will follow.
18:00:56 We upland owners pay additional taxes for owning waterfront property. On the other hand, the landowners holding land under leased by shellfish producers are granted a significant
property tax discount.
18:01:08 Furthermore, shellfish, grown and shipped internationally, are exempt from taxes since the shelters are raised from eggs or larvae and under the physical control of the grower
until harvested or sold.
18:01:19 The fish tax is usually paid by the licensed beaver who bought the fish, the commercial fishery, which one doesn't pay fish checks.
18:01:30 This is one of many examples in Jefferson County and other counties. It warrants the proactive decision of the plant and the national marine environment.
18:01:38 I hope you vote in favor of lands and the national marine environment. I hope you vote in favor of option 3, the National Marine Environment.
18:01:42 I hope you vote in favor of option 3, a standard, in favor of option 3, a standard conditional discourage, a standard, and, and, conditional, and discourment for all future
applications for all future applications for Thank you.
18:01:52 Okay.
18:02:01 Yes.
18:02:02 You're on Ken.
18:02:04 Alright, sorry about that. Thank you for this opportunity to provide testimony. My name is Kim Thompson and I'm providing these comments on behalf of the Pacific Coachell Fish
Goers Association.
18:02:17 We represent oyster clam, goi duck and muscle farmers, here in Washington along the Pacific coast and of course in Jefferson County.
18:02:25 We have been following this process and appreciate that you responded to comments provided by our shellfish growers and stakeholders in the county.
18:02:34 However, we do remain concerned that some of the permitting requirements are still very burdensome and duplicative.
18:02:39 And while we understand that the commission is looking to move this forward, there are a few critical changes that are important to ensure the county's SNP supports aquaculture
as a preferred use of Thailand's, which is noted as a goal for the county in the SMP.
18:02:53 First, I would ask that you remove the language and lines 4 4 0 3 and 4 4 0 8 that require aquaculture to be subject to.
18:03:02 The use in development regulations of adjacent upland shoreline environments and instead this language should replicate what is being used in other parts of the SMP.
18:03:13 For example, line 4 4 1 4 that require aquaculture to abide by the policy set forth in the SNP.
18:03:20 The table and the staff report acknowledge this request, but it seems to indicate that this pertains only to GUI duck, but the language reads, it applies to all shellfish aquaculture.
18:03:31 To be clear, it shouldn't apply to any aquaculture, the language as written is not in keeping with the intent, supporting shellfish farming and restorative aquaculture in the
county.
18:03:40 Auckland regulation should not have the ability to determine whether new shellfish farms are permitted on private or state owned tide lands.
18:03:47 This should be left to the SMP. In addition, we would like to request the removal of the visual and analysis that was just discussed.
18:03:55 It's not clear that it applies only to a, it seems that it applies. To all alcohol culture.
18:04:01 And it's also as written overly subjective and had lacks clarity about the expectation for farmers with new farms or farmers with changing operations, navigating the subjective
process will cost growers and permit staff precious time and resources without much benefit.
18:04:18 PCSGA growers already follow our environmental codes of practice where the minimization of visual impacts is addressed to the extent practicable.
18:04:25 Finally, GUI Doc is a topic of much debate and conversation in this SMP process. In the most recent version, a new permit is required for expanded GUI DAP, which adds an additional
layer of permitting to an already rigorous permitting process for GUI Doc that would have already completed at the federal state and local level.
18:04:44 We request that you make these changes which will support shellfish farming and the many benefits it provides in the form of jobs, economic activity, and ecosystem benefits
to Jefferson County.
18:04:55 Thank you very much for your time.
18:04:57 Thank you. That here again. Yes.
18:05:11 On Marilyn showholder. I live at 1596 Shine Road on property. I have owned for 47 years.
18:05:22 Yes, a piece of Thailand, an acre has. 43,000 tubes in it for the first time.
18:05:32 And that property is going to be harvested of. For the first time using hydraulic hoses that liquefy the sand down to 3 feet.
18:05:43 That's a new animal. New technology, new to that plot. It doesn't matter if it's A new tide lands to or an expansion of an existing, or it's on existing.
18:06:04 Hoister, fidelens. It's still new tubes. New technology, new harvesting.
18:06:12 A new event, that timeline, no matter where it is. That's why the same process should apply to all 3 situations from the environmental point of view. They're not any different.
18:06:28 Speaking to the options. Option 2 is an improvement over option one because it collapses. New and expanded.
18:06:35 There's not there isn't a thing called expanded under the it's just, yes, it's silent on that question.
18:06:47 Is silent on putting elephants in the sand as well. It's just not a thing. New and expanded on the same.
18:06:51 The web does distinguish between existing shellfish lands. And new. But it is not for scientific reasons.
18:07:05 It's for political pressure reasons There is no scientific difference in those 2. This is particularly important in Jefferson County.
18:07:15 Because Jefferson County has no existing oversight. Over existing find shellfish operations. They were all grandfathered in 2,014.
18:07:27 So we don't know how many acres there are. And we don't know. Anything, what would happen if some of these things were converted.
18:07:37 I have a 10 foot rowboat that I roll out to get craps. It doesn't need a license.
18:07:44 But now I want to put a mother on. And I want to have a bull horn and I want to have a ice cream stand and go around and sell.
18:07:50 Why need a license for that? Well, I had a long time rower. Why should I need a license?
18:07:58 Because it's a new product and a new technology. I got 9Â s to tell you that the, that's been cited, for the aesthetic issue comes from not the aquaculture section or even.
18:08:15 Comes from not the aquaculture section or even a aquaculture section or even our a good section.
18:08:17 It's about access to public waters. It's about access to public waters. It's not part of the US. Regulations and I will pass.
18:08:23 We need a statute out so you can read it for yourself along with some photo. Of tubes in our Okay.
18:08:33 Thank you.
18:08:38 Okay, Don't be online.
18:08:49 . One
18:08:46 That's us. Okay. Yeah, my name is Tony Brenner. I live at a hundred 10 Hob of view drive, which, my residence.
18:08:59 Overlooks And I support, option 3. And I would just like to add that, I don't think it's right that we should do more environmental damage.
18:09:13 To an area which is already deteriorating from a point of view of fishing. And our natural. Developments.
18:09:22 So I think this should not go ahead.
18:09:28 Thank you.
18:09:35 Okay.
18:09:31 Come back to here again. 3. Yeah, you can see that you can see that. We'll just start here and work across.
18:10:02 I'm in favor of a condition use permit, renew, for existing and, the expansion of Right.
18:10:15 Okay.
18:10:19 Yeah.
18:10:23 Good evening, my name is Lisa Cross. I am an I am the operations manager for Rockwood or company for the last 10 years facing built in Washington.
18:10:38 I was born and raised here in Washington with an occasional move away from. For my father's jobs.
18:10:43 I am, for 10 years moving from the. Again, I've raised a hundred years ago in 1921.
18:10:54 And it is one of the oldest shoppage cards in the state. We are proud, we are proud to be part of Washington's long-standing history.
18:11:04 As a leader in oyster and shellfish production. Continuating Washington's heritage as a It's something our company at the industry and industry at large takes great pride in
friendly rock point provides 25 to 30 jobs to check.
18:11:23 We thank you for the effort. To update in Jefferson County's SMP and have responded to comments.
18:11:32 Alright, and have responded to comments provided to you by shellfish farmers and stakeholders in the county.
18:11:39 However, there are a few critical changes that are important to ensure that community, support. Fulture is a confer use of Titans, which is noted.
18:11:52 As a poll for the county. In the SMP. We would ask that you remove the language, pretty much the same thing that can, Thompson said.
18:12:04 As far as, removing some of the, the subjects on 4, 4, 0 3 and 4 4 0 8.
18:12:13 Instead, this language should be identical to what is being used in other parts of the SNP that requires aquaculture to abide by the policies.
18:12:24 That forth in the FMP, C line page 4 4 1 4. The language as written is not in keeping with the intent to support childish farming and restorative.
18:12:38 Aquaculture in the county. Unregulation should not have the ability to determine. Whether new shellfish farms.
18:12:44 Are permitted on private or state onto tenants. This should be left to the SNP. We would like to note that application and permit requirements, including the SNP, are very burdened.
18:13:00 And in some cases, to what is already required in other aspects of the permitting process. Please do everything that you can to support responsible shellfish farming in Jefferson
County.
18:13:15 It is a critical part of our economy and heritage. Thank you for your time. To this important topic and opportunities to speak.
18:13:25 But I do have some information on microplastics. There's new article that came out. November sixth.
18:13:33 And I have a link to it. It's it's quite informative about alcohol culture and microplastics.
18:13:40 Thank you.
18:13:45 No one online at the moment. Would you like to take?
18:13:50 Everybody, One light oyster company. Yeah, I've been operating with my on Marathon Island since 2018.
18:14:03 I was the shelfish biologist for the James, and then helped, grow shopish operations with James Town.
18:14:11 For 8 years. Yeah, it took me about 3 years to get permitted before I could start my operation.
18:14:23 It was a rigorous process working with that. Federal state, local. Kinda Yeah, and the ongoing long process that was very exciting to make it through.
18:14:38 Or. You know, guy that started growing shellfish or someone else on the East Coast where I'm from to finally make it to the point where I could start my own little, farm.
18:14:53 So, I believe the SNP is moving in a good direction. It does include number of, components.
18:15:00 That are already covered by the federal state for permanent processes. This type of duplication and ad steps make it that much harder.
18:15:09 Small farmers. And new farmers to spare a for a shelfish farm. And that makes it kinda just viable for.
18:15:19 Because they have the ability to. You know, put the effort into. Yeah, you know, what it takes to do that.
18:15:31 If I would like to expand, I would like to grow if, I would like my new son 9 months old if he ever wants to start growing oysters someday.
18:15:40 This would get much more difficult for me. If, the SNP changed. So I would like to ask that, remove the language.
18:15:50 That requires optimal to to be subject to the use in both regulations and adjacent, This can be found in flying forward, instead this language should be identical to what is
being used in other parts of the S and P that requires not to abide by the policy support and they have.
18:16:14 Nice one I say it's something I'd probably bring into the room, so everyone else.
18:16:18 I wrote these oysters on marathon island a few miles down the road, I bring them to Finn River.
18:16:24 The farm to table movement that's going on in Jefferson County like oysters are at the table of that.
18:16:33 I be oysters to so many people and they're dying to get shellfish from that producing nearby.
18:16:39 And they come here and they know and they want to know where it is. And I spent a lot of time with people explaining.
18:16:49 Why I grow shellfish, I'm not. If they demand eating oysters, then I will grow and and then the waste is demand clean water.
18:16:59 Let's face it, that is very good. Thank you.
18:17:07 And we do have a commenter online. Chair and all, Jan Wall. Go ahead, Jan.
18:17:14 Down Wold and I live in Jefferson County next to Hood Canal and I have for the last 10 years.
18:17:23 I've just, of experience and land management and I spent the last 7 years before I retired. In charge of a 1 million acre national forest.
18:17:31 About 20% of all Washington Titans were under permit for shellfish farms 10 years ago.
18:17:37 According to the Army Corps of Engineers. That number has apparently increased over the last decade to somewhere around 30%.
18:17:45 All shellfish farming gooey duck farming is most destructive and it usually is located in estuary areas that are extremely important ecologically.
18:17:55 And have many threatened and endangered species. Guy-duck farmers pound over 43,000 tubes.
18:18:05 That are white plastic into. Every acre and the tubes look like this.
18:18:14 43,000 of them.
18:18:18 These same tide lands are then turned into a slurry down to 3 feet deep during harvesting.
18:18:24 This cycle goes on year after year and I can think of no other county project that would be more negatively impactful than a GUI dick forum.
18:18:33 I urge you to support option 3 of the November tenth staff report requiring a standard conditional use permit with a hearing before a hearing examiner.
18:18:41 For all GUI duck operations including conversions. I also urge you to support the aesthetic standard alternative one that requires an aesthetic.
18:18:50 Analysis. 56 of my Shine Road neighbors and another dozen people from Discovery Bay signed letters to strongly support the approach in option 3 requiring the use of a standard
conditional use permit.
18:19:02 This process allows for an opportunity for everyone to be heard. And ensures sufficient scientific data is in the record to make a site-specific decision.
18:19:12 This data can include consideration of plastic pollution, release of carbon, Impacts to T and E species loss of native, native eel grass.
18:19:22 Increased turbidity, siphoning of food chain organisms. Increased acidification and visual water quality navigation.
18:19:31 Public safety and wildlife impacts. Selecting option 3 also keeps Jefferson County consistent with the approved SMPs of neighboring Kissett and Klow counties.
18:19:42 We often hear about how important these farms are for jobs and money for Jefferson County. However, the GUI duck farm next to Shine Road pays $273 a year in property taxes for
the 3.6 8 for commercial business.
18:19:58 I pay 68 times more than they do a year for my house and 6 acres. They only employ around 10 people to plant the gooey ducks for a few weeks in the first year.
18:20:07 And for a few days, a couple of years later, to remove the tubes. A person checks for lost tubes periodically and then eventually a boat, an operator and a diver harvest to
go.
18:20:20 Dex in the sixth or seventh year. All of the gooey ducks here are hauled by Van to Seatac Airport and sold to China.
18:20:25 You all right?
18:20:27 I know of no taxes going to Jefferson County from the sale. I just want to thank all of you on the Planning Commission for what you do for the rest of us in the county.
18:20:36 Thanks again.
18:20:41 Anyone present? Like to speak and I'll keep moving this way. Yes, please step right up.
18:20:52 Yeah, I'm in the low and I live on this every day. I strongly urge the acceptance of the option 3.
18:21:01 I don't see why. Any reason why we wouldn't. Monica or. Dan essentially said it all.
18:21:13 I can't really add too much more. Sorry, option 3. Thank you.
18:21:35 Good evening. My name is Ernie Wald. I'm director of regimentorey.
18:21:42 There's a And then as far as permitting and compliance for the company. Yeah, a childish owns or leases over 14,000 acres, tide ones and riparian lands in Washington state.
18:21:52 Other 300 acres are here in Jefferson County over behind the 700 productive farms. These farms produce plans, boisterous, muffled, good, as well as Taylor's hatchery, which
produce a shellfish large,arbon seed or internal use as well as sale to other commercials and are creating milk growers here in Washington state and international farms.
18:22:13 Yeah, their employees, 35 people in Jefferson County who also provide the, economic benefits to the county.
18:22:19 A vibrant shelf resource relies on excellent water quality. And predictable and reasonable regulatory field to navigate.
18:22:27 In return, well managed off the culture facilities. Facilitates enhanced opportunity for recreation economic development and local food security encouraged by a mixture of large
and small operations.
18:22:41 I appreciate the amount of care and attention you inject in county staff are dedicating to review and consideration of the SNP.
18:22:49 And I'm adding my comments to those submitted by Shane Carr on September, the 20 ninth in the comments I submitted to your last meeting on October 18 to provide clarification
on the wording in 18.2 5 1 4 0 3 including A and B.
18:23:04 I would encourage you to use the word designation at the end of those sentences which say subject to the use of development regulations of the Jason Upland Shoreline environmental
designation.
18:23:21 I think that would address well, along with, a lot of these, this language is fairly clunky and you have to read it wipe off and you have to read it wipe off in in order to
just kind of make sense of it in order to just kind of make sense of it which is not how regulation to just kind of make sense of it, which is not how regulation should be written.
18:23:28 And also in first removal of the need for visual analysis and part of the application requirements for the alarms that are not within the shoreline residential designations.
18:23:38 He's analysis are extremely suggestive both to develop and to review. For far technology not readily available and there is no current guidance to follow on how to complete.
18:23:49 Will there be multiple areas in this plan which are completely and confusing. I will focus. finally,
18:23:58 Let's see. I also want to respond to Miss W that these concerns that are brought up by residents have been fully researched and analyzed and addressed under the programmatic
consultation and this missed by phone hearings for on all the full occasions.
18:24:17 So . That. Thank you
18:24:26 Well, Okay.
18:24:38 Yep. Yes. Yeah, just like to, respond to some things that were claimed at the previous.
18:24:49 Planning Commission meeting. It was suggested that Jefferson County, excuse me, Mason County.
18:24:59 Required for conditional use permits for. Guide. Aquaculture.
18:25:06 They do require. Cp's for all good at aquaculture, but they only require administrative CUPs.
18:25:15 For everything but new GUIDA farms. I've heard it stated repeatedly in these hearings.
18:25:26 That 30% of Washington state waters is under aquaculture. the Army Corps programmatic biological assessment in 2,015 In fact, it of Puget Sound and Hood Canal, 7.3.
18:25:45 3% of tide lands were in, were permitted for shellfish aquaculture which doesn't actually mean they're being used but are permitted for shellfish agriculture.
18:25:57 And that of that. Separately. My estimate, estimation is for Puget Soundhood canal less than half a percent.
18:26:09 Of Thailand's are used for Guitar K or culture. I've also heard it claimed a bunch of extravagant and unsubstantiated claims about what it's going to do to ill grass and endangered
species.
18:26:26 I say they're unsubstantiated because they're unsubstantiated. I see no evidence.
18:26:34 To be submitted. I mean, we can make whatever claims. We like but hopefully the planning commission.
18:26:41 Has the objective sense. To not believe stuff and this is backed up by evidence.
18:26:50 I think that having full CUP for every type of GUI duck is excessive and I it will retard the growth of GUIDAC farms which I guess is what the shoreline property owners want
but I don't think that's what's best for Jefferson County.
18:27:09 But Thank you for your time and I hope you guys make the right decision. Bye.
18:27:13 Thank you. Yes, thank you.
18:27:26 Good evening. I'm Neil Harrington. I'm an environmental biologist with James.
18:27:32 First up I want to thank the planning commission and county staff for incorporating some of the changes we suggested.
18:27:39 Into this version. I really appreciate this is a lot of work. I years ago I worked Josh, some of the SNP initial work in 2,003.
18:27:50 Another. a couple about that. Me too. So it's hard.
18:27:58 It's hard to start through all this. As it's been mentioned, the tribe would like some work on the language and lines, as it's been mentioned, the tribe would like some work
on the language and lines, 44 0 3 and 44 0 3 and 44 0 3 and 44 0 3 and 44 0 8 and 44 0 8 and refer to
18:28:11 aquaulture activities being subject to upland development regulations, for Thailand's that are designated, quiet.
18:28:16 Aquatic should be removed from these definitions. Trust should be able to allow allowed to engage in aquaculture practices regardless of our plan designations as long as we
meet otherwise permanent requirements.
18:28:27 So and the visual analysis making that mandatory that I think is burdensome. And so, I think along with Aaron's comment, you know, in terms of, areas, certainly that are not
residential.
18:28:41 That requirement should be removed. It may be made, subject to like, that,
18:28:56 Anyway, I appreciate your time. I appreciate what you guys do. Thanks. Thank you.
18:29:03 Believe online we have 2 or 2 go right ahead if you can hear
18:29:13 Go right ahead, Sue, if you could hear me.
18:29:14 Yes, I can. Thank you very much. My name is Su Corbett. I live at 31 Churchill Lane in Shine.
18:29:23 I would like the SMP to include option 3 standard conditional use permit for any new conversion or expansion.
18:29:30 The Entert, GUIDECH industry is relatively new. There is yet to be current.
18:29:38 Adequate research done to find out what are the true effects. To the marine environment. There should be a standard cup for all goaduct proposals because.
18:29:50 Each, site will have varying conditions such as fish spawning site, need a meal grass or recreation area nearby.
18:30:00 GUI dark operations use plastic tubes. Predator nets and sometimes other materials like I've seen metal and rope fences and lots of buoys.
18:30:13 I have a video of a wind surfer with hydrofoil surfing over the area of a proposed GUI duck site.
18:30:21 Which is next to a county park. The hydrofoil is on average 35 inches long and part of the time it's under the water while surfing.
18:30:28 These materials used in GUI, at Borman could pose a hazard to a windsurfer.
18:30:33 There are some things to consider. When taking into consideration the distinguishing between new conversion or expansion of GUIDEs for example.
18:30:44 If an operation is converted from oysters to goy ducts, the tide level must be considered.
18:30:51 Wastes are typically grown between 0 tide level and a plus 3 tide level. Entertidal GUI ducks are typically grown between a minus 2 and a plus 2 tide level.
18:31:00 Dance, ill grass beds are typically located at the lower tide level, so converting to GUI duck.
18:31:07 From oysters could then adversely affect naive ill grass and expansion is using tide lands that have not previously had aquaculture so Seems like new territory to me.
18:31:19 I've walked the Tidelands and Skomish Harbor for 40 years and I've learned how to identify things as native ill grass.
18:31:27 I've observed a fully duck operations, Schoolmish Harbor for last 10 years and I can actually see the difference in the health of the marine environment.
18:31:35 At the current GUI duck operation. In July of 2,014 I took a photo of the GUIDE farm.
18:31:42 And the native ill grass was plentiful at that time. The EL grass has not. Thanks recovered to that level.
18:31:51 And I have. Hopefully you can see these. This is, from July, 2,000, 14.
18:32:04 This is the same spot. Angeli of 2,023. Okay.
18:32:10 Hi.
18:32:14 Hold it up.
18:32:13 What? Okay.
18:32:27 Okay.
18:32:32 Okay, thank you.
18:32:19 Alright, that's fine. Why don't you wrap it up? Anyone present if you'd like to see me? Yes, please.
18:32:41 Go around and have them, Craig.
18:32:42 Good evening, my name is Andrew Guston. I have an operations manager of Johnston. Got some shellfish located here in Justin County.
18:32:50 Our farm was founded in 1918, at least since as far as our records go back to. And it was by my great grandfather making me a fifth generation farmer and I'm joined tonight.
18:33:02 We play around a dozen to 15 employees and supply many small businesses and nursing your respect product many small businesses in Jefferson County.
18:33:10 I like to thank you all tonight for the efforts to update Jefferson County's S and P. Shelpish.
18:33:17 Farming is an important part of Justin County's economy and having clear and efficient policies for farmers is critical.
18:33:21 Many, farmers have been following the process and believe the SNP is moving in a good direction and as have been responded to comments provided by Shellfish farmers and stakeholders
in the county.
18:33:31 However, there are a few critical changes that are important to ensure the county's, support shellfish farming as a preferred use of Thailand, which is noted as a goal for the
county and the SNP itself.
18:33:42 With regards to the current draft of the SNP, I'd like to know that the application and permit requirements included are very burdensome and in some cases duplicative to what
is already required in other aspects of the permitting process at the federal and state levels.
18:33:56 In addition, I would like to request the removal of the visual analysis part D as part of the application requirements for new farms that are not within shoreline rather than
control designations.
18:34:06 This requirement feels overly subjective and lacks clarity and the expectations for farmers with, with new farms or farmers and changing operations.
18:34:15 This is very troubling. For a small farm during a chaotic economic environment. Next, I know, like, that's been a topic, a bunch of debate and conversation in the SMP process
in the most recent version, the new permit is required for TANG, which adds an additional layer of earning to an already rigorous permitting process for DU.
18:34:34 We are farming is similar to that oyster muscle and other shellfish farming goes through extensive.
18:34:37 Which would have already been completed at the federal, state, local level. At Donson, we have a small GUI operation.
18:34:46 We've been doing it for over a hundred years and these permit requirements would likely be prohibited should we want to increase our.
18:34:51 Finally, I've asked for you to clarify the language that requires aquaculture to be subject to the use and development regulations of the Jason Nplan, try and environments.
18:35:01 And said this language should be identical to what is being used in other parts of the SMP that requires aquaculture to abide by the policy set forth in the SMP and outline
expectations for different types of culture.
18:35:13 I asked you make these changes which will support shelfish for in Dr. County, provide clarity farmers for the next.
18:35:19 I also like to say that for the only industry that does not use pesticides or for, so I don't know of any other industry I can say that.
18:35:28 So thank you for your time. I didn't say that. So thank you for your time. Thank you. We've got a commenter on line.
18:35:38 Seen. Okay.
18:35:38 Yes, I can. Thank you. Steve Ditmar, 30 Watney Lane.
18:35:41 I live, directly upland from the current, GUIDEK operation here on Shine Road.
18:35:48 Actually, my tidelands are adjacent to the current GUIDE farm. So I see it and live through it.
18:35:54 Every day. My understanding of the SNP is at least in large part to help protect the environment.
18:36:03 And with these 3 categories of conditional use permit. Being the conversions and the expansions seem to me.
18:36:13 For the GUI duck operator or the farmer. It's a giant loophole for them to, skirt around or bypass a CUP process, just start out with oysters.
18:36:28 And, and then convert to GUI ducks and they don't have to go through a CUP as opposed to being brand new and in my observation.
18:36:40 Whether you have oysters and then you're converting to GUI ducts or you got nothing there and you're putting in go.
18:36:50 Docs in all cases. You have. The. Unfarmed sand that's being having these 43,000 tubes stepped into the sand.
18:37:06 In all 3 cases it's the same environmental impact to an area that didn't have all these tubes prior.
18:37:15 So that's the first comment. Second comment is I think there's a lot more. A focus that should be put on the actual use of PVC in the environment and what happens to those tubes.
18:37:30 I personally went snorkeling out beyond. Our current, GUI up farm just to see.
18:37:38 If there's tubes that get loose and go out into the deep. The tubes that get loose and come up on the shore, those are obvious.
18:37:47 You walk along the beach and you pick up we pick up hundreds of them. Along our beach every year that get dislodged in the in the in the storms.
18:38:14 Out in the deep beyond the the current farm. That's just what I could see in 15 feet.
18:38:23 What's out at 30 feet? I have no idea. But if they got sucked that far, they're going to be continued to suck out into the bay.
18:38:29 And there's, they're gonna go continue out to the deep and there they are of the pee PVC essentially permanently out in the environment rolling around and adding that the whatever
microplastics come off of them.
18:38:43 That's your time. Drop it up, please.
18:38:47 Sure, adding to the. So that's my second one is more attention to the PVC that's actually used in the process.
18:38:54 Thank you.
18:38:58 Wait.
18:39:03 Good evening everyone. My name is Anne Dutton and I live in Fort Ludlow.
18:39:09 I'm here to support my neighbors and my friends on shine and just every day. I know what I'm hearing tonight it seems like there's a huge disconnect.
18:39:18 My focus is on the. That's my big concern. And I support, you know, option 3, but why do we even have an option?
18:39:30 I guess the way I'm looking at it. It should be tighten regulations when it comes to expansion conversions and Everybody knows, that our potions are very acidic.
18:39:45 They're very fragile, so our tide lands and so we need to be doing more. Not less regulations, but more.
18:39:53 So if Jefferson County isn't going to have the oversight and we already know that the federal government pretty much understands almost everything or the full of engineers.
18:40:05 In my opinion. That is Jefferson County isn't going to have the oversight then where are we going to allow the shellfish farmers to do that.
18:40:18 To me that would be a big conflict of interest because If I was in violation of anything and I worked for those companies I wouldn't tell on myself.
18:40:27 So I urge you to, unfortunately we have 3 options. I'm gonna go with the most stranger one.
18:40:35 And I think, and I urge the planning commission in the same. Please give the Stewart and things do the right thing.
18:40:43 As I'm a citizen and I'm electing you or I might not let you.
18:40:53 Yeah. Hello, I'm Derek. I'm sorry. I'm also on this top route.
18:41:03 Show this industry don't know about the. You try getting, on the shoreline around here, they want to know what the permanent situation is.
18:41:15 So, we have a, a duly duck operation. Yeah, 1,000, yeah, 1,000, New York from us.
18:41:22 And you talked about. Little grass, no evidence. You come down to my property and you can see what the cut ill grass watching out on my shore.
18:41:31 Now. The point is things go wrong and when things go wrong they need to be corrected. There needs to be a way.
18:41:42 Mechanism for fixing things which is why we need option. Okay. Thank you.
18:41:53 Please.
18:41:56 Okay. It is. My name is Luca Kruto. I am the Discovered Day farm manager, We, as Aaron mentioned, we employ up to 35, people in Jefferson County.
18:42:16 All those people depend on greed up and oyster farming for their livelihood. As a farmer and an individual, I care a lot about being ecology of the day and the water quality
and our best management practices reflect that because without good water quality, without happy ecology, we don't have to, drive and prosper.
18:42:39 And some of those practices include like bi weekly beach walks or cleaning up trash and it's not like for the most part it's residential.
18:42:48 And so I think it's it goes hand in hand with, that we want the baby to do well.
18:42:55 So thank you.
18:43:02 What else present that you'd like to mention? Okay, so, part of the JG, J, on his own filters.
18:43:15 So earlier, just kind of real quickly, I kind of like to hear what though, I'll look at how to say they're on cleaning up Vmp's and all that on the beach.
18:43:23 We're cleaning up the Dmp's and all that on the beach. Where everybody against was required to.
18:43:26 You. Go out and talk our own beaches that we manage with public beaches, other beaches.
18:43:33 If they're loud and we clean up so after every major event. And we're finding a lot of stuff that is not related to shellfish rovers.
18:43:46 Oh, this is coming from we've been taken from every side of the world. It floats in here.
18:43:54 Detail there on what we do and what we want to do and why we want to do it because it makes perfect sense.
18:44:00 We don't want to have a, out there. I'm really concerned too about, you know, common that were made.
18:44:06 From people that probably are putting a lot of chemicals out in their yard or maybe have a lot of chemicals you know, being forced down in, or even with, things or even with,
same system, it's, it's, it ends up getting down and work on the hill.
18:44:27 And we try our best to, to not do that kind of stuff, to control any type of operation that held out.
18:44:38 Duffy tanks, unbeknownst to us that have a problem where there's an individual that doesn't have the money, a loan of money or given the money, for fixed roads that are eroding,
a billion lawsuits.
18:44:52 To so many time to make your head spin. Nuclear power plants that were proposed in the Discovery Day area plot that all my life.
18:45:06 And you know, it's It's really disappointing to see something that has so much opposition.
18:45:14 For a very benign operation. I want you all to know that this idea that there's, going everywhere.
18:45:23 That's totally false. It's very limited to specific areas. And if you go back a hundred years.
18:45:32 You're going to see or you would see. A heck of a lot more gooey ducks in Discovery Bay.
18:45:40 Which is my common, I know it well. We couldn't even operate. I don't know why, but just the politics.
18:45:52 It took a long time to get, to farm. You, to, this, fell, giving, us, on our own private type.
18:45:59 So, We're gonna do it and we're gonna do it right. And you know, like I said, there was more, a, a hundred years ago.
18:46:10 Then there is today. It's so simple as that. Thanks for your time. And I really appreciate everybody that's sitting here.
18:46:18 I appreciate the opposition comments because it'll make us better. Thank you very much. Hmm. Everybody else who would like to speak this evening.
18:46:28 One online? I think that's it. You can close public comment for you then.
18:46:36 We're now on. Continue celebration. I'd like to in the question of the conditional use permit for BreedECK operations.
18:46:54 I'd like to make a motion that the planning commission sent forward to the board accounting commissioners the option 3 treat all really that public culture and with a standard.
18:47:03 Is there a second to that motion? Is that? Chris, okay. Now we have a free discussion.
18:47:11 Make my case. Yes, I've been thinking a lot about this. I've been thinking, you know, if there's one thing that I learned very solidly over the last 3 years, where we were.
18:47:27 Sequestered away from each other during the pandemic is how important it is for us to be in the same room and see each other and while we hear each other and listen to each
other.
18:47:37 It's I appreciate very much deeply. I thought for people to be able to attend remotely because I think it does give more access to public meetings, but I also think we have
to have opportunities to be in the same room together.
18:47:53 We had in the 2 and a half year process or whatever we're at with the SNP for almost all of that time, we had a use table for GUI ducks that included a standard CUP for new
operations.
18:48:10 Expanded operations and conversions. And really, you know, we heard relatively little concern about it.
18:48:20 The growers had some concerns. generally and specifically, but, you know, I think I didn't hear that ecology had a problem with it.
18:48:30 I didn't hear that there was a big uprising about that and then all of a sudden out of nowhere November first I guess was the date of this option.
18:48:41 And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, November first, I guess, was the date of this option.
18:48:42 We have a change in the use table where some, I guess, was the date of this option.
18:48:51 We have a change in the use table where some, some operation, new operations still had a full, CFP, but the conversions and expansions had had a discretionary season.
18:48:55 That doesn't mean they wouldn't have a full public hearing. It means that it's at the discretion of.
18:48:58 Administrator, And. I think that the The difference is clear. Between the sides if you will if there's only 2 sides here.
18:49:14 I don't know if it's just, but you can hear a big. Difference, a big range of opinions and I believe in the last 3 years has really nailed that down for me.
18:49:22 That it's important to guarantee the public a public. Hearing process regardless of whether what we're looking at new, that's entirely new.
18:49:34 That farm. An expansion or a conversion because I agree with the point that I heard someone say the night that I don't see a difference.
18:49:44 The only difference I could see it with an expansion is that we already know something about the grow or they're gonna expand we already know something about their operations
which actually isn't.
18:49:56 The point of view that option 2 offer. So I, support option 3 and that's why.
18:50:03 Thank you. I'm in support of the first option. And some of the same reasons that.
18:50:15 Cynthia is in support of number 3, which is that every one of these requires a cut irregardless of the type of They all require a 30 day public notice.
18:50:29 So everyone gets an opportunity to talk. In a discretionary or administrative, it can be appealed and kept to a phone.
18:50:39 So in my opinion, I think that we're not sacrificing anything. By saying everything has to have a cup.
18:50:45 It, The public is informed. The rules are the same. It can't interfere with normal public use of the public shore.
18:50:54 It has to follow RCW. The site design has to be compatible with other uses on the shoreline.
18:51:00 It will cause no significant adverse effects to the shoreline. And public interviews, no substantial detrimental effects.
18:51:08 So creating additional regulations, which is. Burn zone. Does not change any of those elements. It is the same.
18:51:19 So I propose that we stick with the,
18:51:25 Thank you. Any additional comments?
18:51:31 Alright, a question perhaps for like a commission staff, some of the other commentaries today mentioned, language related to upland regulations.
18:51:41 I know in the table prepared by the consultants. The comments from producers, upland environmental information should not direct form to the, is in this row, the, it's, a, Is
that part of this discussion or is that a slightly separate issue?
18:51:59 That are so I'll give a response and at least start Amy if you if I get this wrong or something to actually please jump in afterwards but So.
18:52:12 Back to your point, Sandia, the reason why we suggested that We could have a nuanced table.
18:52:20 Or different GUI dark levels was really related to just further investigation and issue and how that black got changed in the first place.
18:52:30 So to clarify, to mention again. That the reason why we have a choice. Really? About conversions is because that's what the access.
18:52:41 So in other words, new, new, new, aquaculture is required to have a conditional use permit.
18:52:45 Shoreline, Mission is permanent and conversions is up to the local government and asylum on the expansion.
18:52:51 So it doesn't how you want to do that. That's why we're in second option that we view it, love it in with new and the first the original option was to consider it closer to
a congregation as even existing operation.
18:53:02 Either way you can look at it. But anyway, that choice is a local government's choice to make.
18:53:07 Just to clarify, we'd essentially already need that choice. I don't hear anyone saying we're gonna have a different cash line permit for a conversion.
18:53:14 So this would we've already made this choice that we're saying all. Who do you condition is?
18:53:21 Like you said, the difference would be our own difference. We're the ones in Jersey County or have code that provide a discretionary process.
18:53:27 We have our administrator conditioning use and we have the full conditions for the hearing and then there's the D small D.
18:53:33 Parentheses, which is the discretion, the code, to decide case by case basis, whether it's a public hearing is warranted or not.
18:53:40 So that's our own day. Nothing to do with Charlotte. Management. That's why I call using care because it's not enough has nothing to do with them per se.
18:53:48 Shirley, you should use permit will be sent to ecology and they'll have the ultimate decision actually, which I'm making a recommendation even as the hearing examiner's recommendation.
18:53:57 Parmacology makes a decision on show line, and then there's an appeal process from there to the shoreline hearing support.
18:54:03 So. That's a little background. How did that record change? Well, there was a there was a and others know more about this but in a late 2,000 there was a process that involved
growers, other stakeholders, ecology, etc, to study the issue of, further, resulted in a number of, 2,009.
18:54:22 In that report, one of the things that said was, when you talk about setting regulations for They suggested that you consider the Upland Shoreline environment designation as
a factor.
18:54:36 So not upling regulations per se and not certainly not the land use map that zoning like if it's rural residential one to 5 or 10 or whatever it's the shoreline environment
as a nation we have a variety of those shoreline residential eye intensity use natural conservancy.
18:54:53 We have all these different shoreline environment destinations, which is part of the, master program. So, so the table then was proposed to be nuanced in the sense that if you
want to differentiate on the CD line for or at that time anyway for under option one.
18:55:09 For conversions and, expansions, then you would consider the upland designation as a factor.
18:55:15 If it were natural, for example, then we'll go with the automatic see rather than the discretionary because that shoreline environment it says something about that.
18:55:23 Anyway, that was the whole reason there was no intention. I think there was a misunderstanding there. Will take responsibility for not explaining it completely or not.
18:55:30 Drafting the regulations so that it was clear where from the get code. So apologies for that.
18:55:35 And, Is that that was essentially a question, right? It's not a, determining factor in the issue.
18:55:46 Permit it's a determining factor in the issue of. It's a determining factor in the issue of permitted to determining factor in the If we want with option one, whether, exactly.
18:55:52 So the kind of process that we can choose to get through that, so that was really all that was meant by that.
18:55:57 But that said though, I mean every permit has a contest so it's not like we would ignore what's happening in your store.
18:56:04 You're always gonna look at the overall site. That's why in the priority acquired, we have 2, we happen to have 2 aquatic designations.
18:56:10 Apply already acquired. A lot of jurisdictions don't have that. It was an optional thing.
18:56:15 I mean, or I know that most of. Rooms don't have that. So we're saying the priority bike or certain values that are being protected there as opposed to ensure the rest of the
aquatic environment.
18:56:27 And so they're both also a different process for that particular one. So that handles that I think.
18:56:32 There are other things that we do. We're happy to answer any questions, but at least we answer that.
18:56:37 On that same point, I'm just curious then. The line, 4403448 that they're referring to that is also found in SMP.
18:56:48 44 14. Do we still have the O 3 in a way that's still duplicated with the SMP.
18:56:57 45. I do.
18:57:12 The line numbers were kind of throwing me initially because I think those line numbers correspond to the clean version.
18:57:20 And it's more helpful to look at the track changes. Version in this particular case and maybe I'll just if I can pull it up real quick.
18:57:29 If I can figure out how to do that. Share screen. I think that's it, share.
18:57:36 Okay, is that is that visible to everybody? Maybe I'll zoom in a little more.
18:57:44 Yeah, that's great.
18:57:45 Okay, so this is the priority aquatic language. And I, think what I keep hearing is that folks are questioning this language here about subject to the use and development regulations
of the adjacent upland shoreline environment.
18:58:04 And I just wanted to point out that that language is not something that we have touched, edited, modified, the existing SMP that makes that linkage between the adjacent upland
and the aquatic environment only for this particularly valuable kind of high functioning priority aquatic designation.
18:58:25 So we did not touch that. And then as he said already. In the aquatic environment all we did was not.
18:58:37 And again, this language is still. Here too about the adjacent upland Charlotte environment.
18:58:42 All the new stuff that we added really just relates to distinguishing the level of CUP. If you happen to be a adjacent to the natural environment.
18:58:50 So.
18:58:51 So if it's a migration size, either option 2 or option 3, we would modify this language accordingly to match whatever your recommendation is.
18:59:00 So we would probably delete some of that new stuff. That makes sense. But it doesn't answer the because that actually says use and development regulations.
18:59:24 And that is like, and you said, that's exciting, and actually goes to priority aquatic.
18:59:26 I would, I would venture to say that the priority is probably fairly sparse. If you look at the, IT is probably fairly sparse.
18:59:29 If you look at, I would venture to say that the priority plot is probably fairly sparse if you look at the.
18:59:32 And like, Amy, could you have any idea about how many priority areas we
18:59:32 I don't remember the areas that I know we looked at that and I think on the map scale it was very few acres relative to the just standard aquatic acres Lisa do you have that?
18:59:44 Okay.
18:59:48 Okay.
18:59:49 I can pull up the The chart, but there is a map in it and you're right. It's, I can pull up the map or I can pull up the.
19:00:01 Statistics and get back to you on that.
19:00:04 That language is both. The priority. And so is it also in S and B, 44, where the discussion is whether or not there's just.
19:00:17 And so is it also in SNP, 44, 14 where the discussion is whether or not there's just duplicative cumbersome.
19:00:19 Discussion so 44 14 what does that say
19:00:25 2414. Natural.
19:00:29 Yes, and people. Just let her never see.
19:00:33 Natural.
19:00:35 Okay.
19:00:39 Okay.
19:00:39 And while you're looking that up, Amy and or you said, could you verify Cynthia?
19:00:44 Point it out that. The same language was in a regular aquatic. Can you verify that?
19:00:51 Okay.
19:00:50 Yeah, for. Yeah, that, that is true. And again, that's existing language that we didn't touch.
19:00:58 So I don't know the full history of it, but. I think that's fairly common.
19:01:04 To consider. The adjacent upland environment. Because it could have effect on the aquatic environment and vice versa.
19:01:11 So.
19:01:14 I'm guessing that that was maybe the origin for that language, but. Yeah, I don't have that history because I wasn't involved then.
19:01:24 So I, Josh and Chair, I do have the acres of
19:01:31 Area for priority aquatic and aquatic. Within the shoreline designations. For aquatic it's about 21,000 Acres.
19:01:45 That's the total shoreline mass program jurisdiction acres and then for priority aquatic it's about 15,000 acres.
19:01:56 So a little more for standard aquatic versus priority aquatic.
19:02:01 I suppose with the language being in both sessions, it's not really applicable. But like they said, I don't know the importance of that.
19:02:10 So now we're gonna go to that 44 14 to see if we're which is exactly below the other ones.
19:02:25 You can pull up the screen back where we were just there a second ago to see what we're talking about there.
19:02:32 Yeah, share.
19:02:38 So you're referring to the natural environment designation language.
19:02:43 Yes.
19:02:54 Yeah.
19:02:47 There was a reference to 44. 14, that could have been from a clean version. I'm looking at the.
19:03:00 Did you want to look at the track changes version?
19:03:03 Sure, now we've got it. Now we've got it nailed down.
19:03:10 So the only modifications we made in this section were really the clarify what kind of what level of conditional use permit is.
19:03:21 Required for the different categories of But other.
19:03:26 Now as you try to explain the nuance cable so again if If the decision from the planning commission is to vote for the motion, the CNN, then this language essentially will disappear
because it's all, attempt to describe.
19:03:40 The nuanced approach, the option number line.
19:03:46 Right.
19:03:47 Chris? I just, talked about the farming, of these things, but we haven't talked about the harvesting of them.
19:03:59 And I remember the first time. Years ago that I saw KUIDAX being harvested. It was with the hydraulic poles that made a slurry out of the beach.
19:04:08 Is that still a way they're harvested? You have a comment? That is, that's a, observation.
19:04:22 And I, am. I think that it needs to be. Brought up. I mean, I'm an, and no, I don't put any chemicals anywhere on my farm going into water, but I,
19:04:37 That's the most damaging part, the tubes and everything. Can be pulled out but the slurry.
19:04:45 Just destroys the beach. I mean, that's my. I would only have one that I had seen free study done in hood canal that we're discussing the, ecosystem after harvest.
19:04:59 It took 6 to 9 months to recover and then their pull. I don't know what the cycle is for a GUI.
19:05:07 But years, and so 6 to 9 months. That was 3 separate, 2 are too small, one large operation.
19:05:20 Very specific to the
19:05:24 Okay.
19:05:30 Any additional? Mike, I have a question to. Come up with this new hybrid. View of these regulations.
19:05:49 What was the reasoning that the You proposed this versus adopting very similar language that are surrounded. And I know, Josh last week or 2 weeks ago, we spoke about, Mason
County, I think it's conversion is a little bit different.
19:06:10 As opposed to the standard cup, but basically everybody around us is using the cup. Why is it that the County Jefferson County wants to go to the?
19:06:20 Hmm.
19:06:25 Like I was say that. We offer this nuanced approach.
19:06:32 Following the recommendations of that 2,009 report like I said and appointed you should have every board the very same paragraph.
19:06:40 Okay, that said. I, I will say that. Stap will not go to the board with a different recommendation than any of these 3 options.
19:06:51 If the planning commission shouldn't plan, you should choose one of them as a recommendation. It's not.
19:06:56 That different for us really. It's a measure based upon what the task force had recommended. It's closer.
19:07:14 There's nuances. I mean, every application step guide and there's scales and when you find a new application, and there's scales and when you find a new application with new
ground, no operation in site.
19:07:27 Then that's different than And when you're talking about averting an existing operation for another kind of species, who we've talked versus expanding.
19:07:38 That by the way, the expansion would be any percentage expansion. There's a clause in the S and P that talks about 25% expansion.
19:07:44 Clam and oyster. But that does not happen because you do the with the SNP, so any expansion.
19:07:51 It's in person that triggered that. But again. As far as we're concerned, I think as far as the conditionally, it's, there's a different process for it.
19:08:02 And we were intending to be nuanced based on Site specific situation priority aquatic versus a product.
19:08:08 What's the icon of destination? Is it natural? It is not, then you know, then it would be discussion.
19:08:13 So that's what we're proposing, but for as far as we're concerned. Now that's a deal breaker.
19:08:19 Wherever the plane issue wants to go, this is a difficult decision, to go. This is a difficult decision, man.
19:08:28 And wherever you go with it, that's what we're gonna put in. I think it's important to note that Maybe came with the idea first but the plan, she directed staff to develop option
one.
19:08:36 Was a request. I'm more nuanced approach. Because we're worried about the unforeseen consequences unintended consequences of of regulating every micro movement by a small door.
19:08:50 And so by making sure that the public input would always be there. That there would always be the opportunity to dig deep into something if necessary.
19:09:04 And it requires a certain amount of faith. That the department would use challenge. And call for a hearing.
19:09:12 That the public needs it. And I guess that's, you know, this creates some faith in the department to carry it out, you know, putting a lot of,
19:09:24 Discretion there, I, you know, the name. Discretionary. So. It's having paper that will be done correctly and then we have to come up with that and once choice.
19:09:38 Every little single thing.
19:09:43 A lot of work. When it was not necessarily being. That is ages to anybody. Thank you.
19:09:56 I'm super confused by that. I don't remember the planning commission doing that. I remember that draft coming kind of out of the blue.
19:10:05 Am I wrong on that? I don't, I don't remember us directing staff to create a new Well, that's not, that's not, not, well, it is, cause it is one of my main points is we've had
the use table that we've had.
19:10:20 For over 2 years and one of my concerns is that change came out of the blue and I've never heard a good explanation for it.
19:10:29 And I haven't ever heard. I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember if that's your.
19:10:42 I can't answer that. I mean. I don't recall, I know we've been talking about this since, There's been a lot of discussion.
19:10:51 And so I feel like it's my job working with the consultants to respond to the information that's available and to the discussion that's occurred.
19:10:58 So. When we suggested that, and put it into a draft for your consideration. I told you exactly why you might not think it's a good explanation.
19:11:08 I told you the explanation. That's going back to that. This is your condition. You can go back to that. This is your condition.
19:11:20 That's, but I would say it's really your, that's going back to that. This is your condition.
19:11:23 You can go back to whatever Yeah, related question on the application, and to the point of, wanting to avoid, requirements for.
19:11:32 Federal state and local permit. Good. My read of, I think the most recent draft was that materials prepared for those state federal permits could be submitted.
19:11:48 Also, the county, if they were providing the same information, Yeah, this is, in some ways, this is the next topic.
19:12:00 I'm happy to talk about that or you can sell this issue and get into that one whatever you whatever you think is the best I'd like to so you have a motion in the floor but Any
additional discussion?
19:12:14 Hey, look, we have a motion to adapt options 3 and a second. It all in favor, raise your hand.
19:12:21 1, 2, 3. Or in favor. And, and all again.
19:12:31 3, 4. 5. Okay. Your motion fails.
19:12:39 I that leaves us with 2 options. Why not can move that we, adopt option. 1Â s.
19:12:48 Okay. Emotion to adopt option once. You have additional discussion for that. On that option, I'd like to go back to the language that.
19:12:59 For, clarifying how upload when use regulation or designation would go into that.
19:13:11 That choice. If it's a sub motion to make, but, I have some concerns about how it's reported right now.
19:13:23 Would make more sense to me to have that say. Upland designation, Yeah, we, pass that to you and get the motion passes, then we would discuss this with you.
19:13:37 To make those changes. Right. She could pull that back. I'm just a good look. I just want to understand.
19:13:49 I just wanted to say a question. It sounds like it's a different issue that we need to address in another motion.
19:13:59 I mean, right now we're just talking about the adoption of the approach that we're taking on those options.
19:14:04 I do agree, 44, 3, 4, good. We need to come back. Yeah, it's just be put, the only reason.
19:14:11 That we touched this section here was to Help make sure that people would understand what your table meant. That's it.
19:14:23 And as we pointed out, I think the language that you're asking us, this everything is already there.
19:14:31 So doesn't mean you can't. That can be
19:14:34 You'll appreciate that the second motion, I think. I'm ready to vote on motion on table.
19:14:42 Okay, let's show a initial discussion. One favor the motion to adapt. Option one, raise your hand.
19:14:50 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. All those. In 3, 4. Looking passes.
19:15:02 I'm sure, yeah, yeah, you'll need to deal with the. Well, Aren't, Yeah, that language again.
19:15:37 Thank you. Okay. Okay, so I'm starting to write a bell or Amy, what do you think about?
19:15:53 Was this related to? Actually upland. Aquaculture activities like for example conversations around fish, culture being done on land as opposed to in that pens or was this related
to its associated activities?
19:16:11 Like a base of operations for muscle wraps or what have you that we're actually located upland.
19:16:21 No, no, it's not, it's very, very.
19:16:25 Yeah, I do not know the history of that. It seems possible that it was kind of recognizing that with some varieties of aquaculture there are both aquatic and adjacent upland
elements to a single operation.
19:16:45 And so it might have been. Connecting those 2 so that you couldn't propose something in the aquatic.
19:16:49 That needed something in the upland and if that upland said no you can't have whatever the upland thing was, then then you wouldn't pursue that particular operation.
19:17:03 That's an idea. I have no idea that's a good idea or not.
19:17:07 You know, the last, I mean, some of you may have participated in the SNP, but one of the major points of debate was. Fish.
19:17:18 And so a lot of the signage couldn't have developed at that time. And so a lot of the signage can't have developed at that time. And that's been around. Actually, sorry.
19:17:32 We'
19:17:33 And at the time though, if I read the papers, was that a lot of the debate was that Jackson County proposed to prohibit INVITIRE, out right as another county had done and the
college you said despite the fact that the other, that you, we can't do that.
19:17:50 And so you have to be more specific about it. You have to, you have to take into consideration what the Sure, line environment designations are in the aquatic.
19:17:58 And put it in context and pick out areas that's more appropriate for that use. That's what all that I think all that language came from really.
19:18:06 So I understand. I guess it's not for size. This particular case we can't get neither credit card or routine.
19:18:13 Essentially for creating that. All the stuff that's in black is already there. Just to clarify.
19:18:19 So, and it is what it is. Does it seem like another section where it says often it's just prohibited?
19:18:27 It seems like it's somewhat different. But tired. And I understand was there when that happened. I understand what you mean about.
19:18:34 A lot of stuff he's kinda thrown in. Or to safeguard against. You know, so, the tenth economy didn't want to see.
19:18:47 And so it was pretty haphazard. There's been a lot of regulatory development since then.
19:18:53 So, but it just seems like a different. Oh, alright. And I think part of the confusion is people looking at aquaculture.
19:19:03 And those first couple of senses, and thinking, that's really got. Alright.
19:19:15 Well, I think I'd like to make a motion. To. Or we can change the light.
19:19:26 I would make a motion to, strike the. Use and regulations about kind of drawing environment in both, 4, 8, 5, 4, 5, 8, 0.
19:19:40 And then replace it with. This, Yeah, I don't think it's here anymore.
19:19:54 That's motion. Discussion. Okay, so state exactly which lines you're gonna have admit.
19:20:04 So you want 45 80 and 45 85 you wanna strike that language in those lines is that correct Yeah, I would strike everything after.
19:20:16 The after subject to and replace it with this shoreline. Or that's better idea. Okay, so here's another point Amy correct me if I'm wrong, but when language says In this kind
of context, we're talking about the impact on shoreline environment regulations on the use table.
19:20:50 Yeah.
19:20:44 It's all about how to contribute these tables. So when it says maybe allowed. Usually that means P, and so like permitted.
19:20:53 Subject for the regulations of the program. Whereas that's why it says we're accepting, a, aquaculture when a priority apply because According to the use table, the nuanced
use table, it's a conditional use.
19:21:08 So really is referring to most other upper pressure activities. Voicemail and plants. But it could be other, lovely, aquaculture such as, so So it's trying to differentiate
when something is a P or permitted use and you stable versus a C or some kind of a, like a CD or Ca.
19:21:32 So, may be allowed stays in the subject to. As well. The reason why the reason why these 2 aquatics and this is just again Educated speculation, the reason why these 2 aquatics
mentioned the environment is the and the other ones don't.
19:21:53 If you go to the natural data, they probably won't from that on because in the use table, you have the 2 aquatics and then you have all the other shoreline designations and
they all have little letters on right?
19:22:05 And so.
19:22:06 It doesn't, it doesn't, we could've neglected to say like not applicable for aquaculture upgrade but then again there are some associative agricultural activities where you
could use some types of culture upland.
19:22:17 You can grow things that without being in the aquatic environment itself. So, so this is referencing the aquatic art and it's saying that there's a relationship between the
shoreline environment designation and the aquatic.
19:22:32 Environment just adjacent to it. Which again is a very typical thing. Would be considered in a, process, but it's not something that would be.
19:22:42 I guess I don't wanna over play that some, I think it's been, the, the, it's, a, that's some, how the upland, specific regulations would somehow apply to the environment.
19:22:56 But, you know, it's probably, not only, you know, it's probably, not, specific regulations would somehow apply to the environment.
19:22:59 But, you know, it's probably, not elegant, the phrase, again, already existing.
19:23:03 Yeah, like it's been that way.
19:23:07 And a pedestrian person, I'll let you get back to you suggest some wording to modify the emotion.
19:23:14 You do and correct me if I'm wrong on this but it looks like the may be allowed and then period strike subject 2 through.
19:23:23 Upland shoreline. I think you have 2 different suggestions. Amy, could you show us the table and show us where the asterisks are on the table.
19:23:34 I believe this has to do with the asking us and the use table and it's about 8 4 cents.
19:23:38 Okay, you see. You see, whereas, could go up a little bit more so you can see where it, Yeah, there we go.
19:23:51 Exceptions and limitations may apply in other than this program. So.
19:23:56 I'm thinking that's when you see an asterisk in the table, it's a clue to.
19:24:02 Look more closely. In other words, like it's not as simple as just P or C in certain areas subject to to the regs and that's how that applies but okay you want to talk to that
maybe a little bit or maybe just subscribe to the.
19:24:26 Yeah.
19:24:22 Add more to what you just said. That would. I thought you, I don't have anything to add.
19:24:31 Hmm.
19:24:31 Right. To clarify my motion, I would like to still make it if you could put back to the other slide.
19:24:41 I think what I'm suggesting is that we use
19:24:46 So.
19:24:49 That we use so like yeah we'll use the language in 4 5 9 one in 4 5 8 0 and 4 5.
19:25:05 And initial discussion. All in favor, raise your hand. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 1, 6.
19:25:18 8 in favor, all against.
19:25:20 Good to you.
19:25:30 Okay.
19:25:28 Okay. So the change to highlight is what what you were suggesting and then we would change all this other language to match.
19:25:40 The just approved. We're actually, I know, I guess we, we would leave it because that's what you guys just approved.
19:25:45 Okay.
19:25:46 Just capture it.
19:25:49 Aaron, you're good with that? Yes. Okay, wonderful. That lights again.
19:25:57 Thank you. It's going back. It looks like we're going to run over tonight. Is every okay with that?
19:26:06 All right, they're working so long. I'm still with it. So now we're, looks like we're back on the, Go on, We, we, We, DUCK, operation.
19:26:31 Now, it's a static standard.
19:26:33 I think that, you know, help with Scott. Don't forget to discuss that one. Yeah, Okay, so any thoughts about this?
19:26:46 We have 2 suggestions. I'd like to make a motion to adopt for passing out from the BOC to option one.
19:26:54 You can do a second to that motion.
19:26:57 My second is it. Okay. You have any discussion? Alright, I have.
19:27:05 And please help me out here. What do you mean by aesthetics and what process does the staff?
19:27:13 Go through to make sure it needs aesthetics. Just me buy that statement, it seems to be quite dangerous.
19:27:22 Okay, because what aesthetically is to me is not necessarily to be Josh. And that's where I had a conflict.
19:27:32 Yeah. Thank you public. Thanks. I would say that we have the whack.
19:27:40 Might that that points out significantly. In fact, these, so. That's what the wax.
19:27:51 And as with many other things that are. Going into detail or prescriptive. In fact, that's up to the local government too.
19:27:57 To create rules and regulations to try to implement that way. And so. I guess I would say that just, It overall idea of the permit requirements.
19:28:09 Again, in response to the discussions that were happening before, we were hearing from from commentators including including the James, that it would be beneficial to create
a table rather than having.
19:28:26 Requirements listed out. And so we did that. Created it. If I can follow the exact table, that's the change.
19:28:33 And then we got continued comments from others. Ask that on the table. So,
19:28:41 And then we responded also to the comment that rather than putting the burden on the applicant to defend the idea of omitting a particular piece we put the language in the said
that it was clearly not applicable and you just don't get that.
19:28:55 Part of the application. So, felt like we were trying to start by doing that. Again, this one either way, not gonna go, we're not gonna, we would go in the bank list and whatever
the technician's recognition of those particular pieces.
19:29:10 I will say that in general, when it comes to 5 for a permit. We have a set of submission requirements for most current types, our red and butter, being like building, and some
editions and things like that.
19:29:21 It gets a little trickier when you get into some of the more complicated types of parents such as the shoreline.
19:29:28 Culture. So as you notice, there's a lot of different things to consider. Our tape would be the more information to consider.
19:29:33 Our tape would be the more information the better in general, but we're not trying to, our tape would be the more information, the better in general, but we're not trying to
also create, 3, that are just that are there for no reason.
19:29:43 That said though in terms of the back to your question, If the JARPA, which is the Jo, has all the information that's requesting the, if there are other studies or valuations
have already been completed for other permanent agencies wonderful that have already been completed for other permanent agencies, it's wonderful that you can just pass in. And for other
permanent agencies, is wonderful.
19:30:02 Then you can just pass in so I don't post it that's a problem. Just because you get a federal permit or something for another state firm or some other local government doesn't
mean that the goals and objectives of the shoreline master program.
19:30:12 I'm in that so they're very different statutes bring water after a different statue. I draw that code as a business page.
19:30:22 And by the way, most often, they had to get an HPA, a hydraulic project with Google phone, Washington, because of the, because that's the way that is, but in other words, there's
like fire registration, like that deals with completely different things than the local government's responsibilities within the master program.
19:30:34 So I would argue that. Most of those things in, in that, so. That in that table are fairly standard things.
19:30:42 This visual thing though, is a difficult situation. I remember. Yeah, I remember going through our earning process for, and they actually submitted like a visualization of what
it was gonna look like.
19:30:53 Once the full build out was accomplished and that actually was a pretty useful tool to be able to for us and the topic.
19:31:01 You'll see, okay, that's what it's going to. I mean, again, I'm like, we're not going to start burn over that particular application, but I will say that.
19:31:07 We have in there, the code administrator has has the ability to request additional information. And so that's not going to change.
19:31:23 . That the visual analysis Death and the consultant went back on this because we did hear a lot about this issue.
19:31:44 The idea that they have to submit. Things that weren't relevant and they would have to spend on making an argument.
19:31:50 Against having something in that didn't relate to their operation. So I actually really appreciate in the language and one that has been adapted to.
19:32:00 To let them off if there's something that just obviously it was relevant to their operation. So I do appreciate that.
19:32:08 Thanks for that. I should just clarify as well that the other thing I think was clearly distinguish between the type One comment was that a lot of this does seem, yeah, for
the fish only, which again goes back to the last. And so we try to differentiate that.
19:32:29 Ask for. That table by any chance, Amy, just to take a look and see where that.
19:32:31 That is. The visual impact analysis.
19:32:38 Or the actual application requirements code.
19:32:41 I'm thinking of the actual table in the proposed master program that we proposed to insert. Essentially copying the comments.
19:32:56 Okay.
19:32:53 Yeah, sure. You know, Yeah, maybe start at the top so you can see what the headers are.
19:33:03 Okay.
19:33:03 Okay. There, you're in for that. Okay, that's fine. All right.
19:33:17 Perfect. So each requirement, 3 different times. Good. Do you guys in the middle just to remember here, Then fish was first, we go to second shellfish.
19:33:32 Right there.
19:33:32 There you go. Alright. And just a note too that the existing SNP included a visual analysis requirement.
19:33:46 But at county request, so it's that the county may require this. And that it had just a few other words kind of mimicking the whack and I think staff was having difficulty trying
to understand.
19:33:58 What that was, what it looked like. And so staff had asked for a little bit more definition of what.
19:34:05 What a visual analysis was and what it's looking at and so that's where a lot of this language came from.
19:34:11 As well was trying to kind of Make something that's rather ambiguous and and subjective into something a little more concrete so that folks can have an idea of how to approach
it.
19:34:23 So that's where a lot of this came from.
19:34:27 And there is 2 in the whack. There's just multiple references scattered throughout the whack.
19:34:34 In aquaculture section and public access section. In just general. Priorities for shoreline management and it just kind of aesthetics keeps getting sprinkled throughout and
unfortunately as As you said, that there's just not a heck of a lot of like, what does that mean and how do we define it and what is what are the objective standards.
19:34:57 So we're kind of making do.
19:34:59 If we're having that much trouble with it, housing. From the applicant getting their heads in jail with that.
19:35:08 I mean, You know, and just. An aesthetic analysis.
19:35:11 Well, I Yeah.
19:35:14 Okay, in general, it goes back to The feasible lot again. I mean These are decisions that local local communities make through first making policies and then you have the permit
process to go through.
19:35:31 So there is a balance of all these things. You got water. Dependent uses, but you also have environmental protection.
19:35:35 And everything that goes with it. So if you read the act itself, talks about a balance, when I spoke with college staff about these firmware, for example, this thing in general,
it came back to this, you have the whack, you have the panelists, you have the needle, the thread between these various values.
19:35:51 And so it's not an easy task, but again, more information is usually better. And so those kinds of decisions.
19:36:00 But yeah, our, I have a question about this. It, I, I hate to go about words, but yesterday it means something to me.
19:36:10 It needs the ephemeral thing, special for each person. Visual analysis is pretty different.
19:36:17 That's a picture. Alright, if we're if we're asking the applicants to provide a picture.
19:36:24 That's fine. But please don't ask them to say this is a good thing or a bad thing.
19:36:31 There's ugly here. It's pretty. So I, object to the, approach.
19:36:39 This is okay. The volume picture. Just to clarify, the word is panic. But here's there's a vitage in the water.
19:36:47 This is our, is this paragraph here? What's what we're talking about. This is this paragraph here with what we're talking about.
19:37:00 And this, there's no post. For Jefferson County, but I wanna say again, the word aesthetic appears to go back, okay, which was developed a pharmacology to implement a stronger
instrument after the course was pass.
19:37:13 Awesome. Is aesthetic pleasing or is it just a visual picture? I think, does he say, aesthetically pleasing.
19:37:22 I think I think, that's something that we're just telling you why but Amy is there a definition or at least a definition of aesthetic in the whack or the SMA itself.
19:37:33 I'll take a look, but one thing I wanted to note is that elsewhere in the whack and in the shoreline management act.
19:37:39 The reference to views from public properties or substantial numbers of residences in there. So that is a criteria that comes up when looking at views.
19:37:50 And it's been through case law as well. So that aspect of what you're where you're looking from or what could be affected, that part is is addressed.
19:38:01 I'm gonna look up and see if there's a definition of aesthetics, but I don't believe so.
19:38:05 That I'll take a quick look.
19:38:12 There isn't it doesn't sound like we're gonna solve that. I think that this kind of helps to the guys. Yeah, I don't wanna leave the applicants.
19:38:26 And, and neverland, having no clue how to do this. You need to have guidance.
19:38:29 To that point if if we went with the second options, which I think then defaults to the highlighted text at the bottom.
19:38:37 This is the county shower user considerations. How is the county gonna review those considerations? Are you feel like basically this language again?
19:38:47 It moves it from. A requirement that every app can have to submit a photo. I can get that, but what's it back on you somehow?
19:38:56 Consider it and I don't know it's what you've been saying. It seems sort of, so how will you?
19:39:04 And my argument would be being at least a little clear is that having no Okay. Because if we use 2, the second one in here, that does not provide us that.
19:39:22 Correct. Yeah, that's right. It says it will strike. Yeah.
19:39:34 Which might even more.
19:39:35 . Yeah that we, according to whack, we have to have something in there based upon the aesthetics.
19:39:44 Evaluation. Well, maybe we can remove the word a static even though it's in the lap.
19:39:52 I can live with the word. It's not that I understand that it refers to the visual, now of a section here.
19:39:59 I think you're correct about the way that words, but I think if might be intended from the state to allow us.
19:40:07 And my concern is what is reasonable to the farmers. Getting this permitted and one person's view versus another person's view at this level.
19:40:18 And how it might impact them.
19:40:22 You know, on a negative basis. And I think we have to be as. Open minded as possible to help.
19:40:30 The residents, the land owners as well as the upper farmers and in that aspect. So.
19:40:37 And I think that's what that process is for. That's why I wanted to have it clear so I can buy off on this if that is needing to.
19:40:50 Admin note on that. I'm sure. Okay. Let me scroll down just a little bit, Amy.
19:41:05 I think, oh, okay, sorry. That's interesting.
19:41:18 Just wanted to confirm I did not find a definition of aesthetics in the shoreline master program rules or the shoreline management act.
19:41:26 It's cheaper.
19:41:37 30 phone you're looking for.
19:41:40 Yeah. Okay.
19:41:48 I guess, you know, the, you know, taking care of the environment, taking care of the environment, taking care of a shoreline ecology, care of the environment, taking care of
a shoreline, you call it, it's in one or 2, we're doing them both.
19:42:01 Yeah, I agree. You know, if you got a picture of something, you might be able to say it's easier to identify but I don't know how far we're gonna take it, you know, someone's
gonna say, here's this natural beach, now that we're expanding, writing 43 down tubes, who's going to say that looks natural or necessarily static.
19:42:22 It just all, I mean, it just, you know, it's throwing one to the bus right at the beginning, but just a little bit.
19:42:27 Well it doesn't determine what happens with it. It just says that they need to provide the information that would sort of, express the, the totality of the project, including
as the visual.
19:42:41 And then a quarter mile and there's a couple of other you know and I get it whether it's direct view or not and there's just a lot in there.
19:42:51 What they have to provide. It's not about how it's assessed.
19:42:56 Correct. That knowing. What they're dividing is, you know, here's here's the impact.
19:43:03 Here's the difference.
19:43:06 Good luck, Josh said earlier. If you saw. A drawing or a rendering of what that is going to look like.
19:43:17 Would give him a better Assessment. I think that's what this is asking for is what is this?
19:43:25 Awful culture. Going to look like in that area. And what's floating and what's not, above water, loading in tide, Yeah.
19:43:40 How are you? Any additional comments? Get ready to vote. She had a motion on the floor too.
19:43:48 Adopt option number one from the aesthetic standard.
19:43:56 2 3 4 5 6 7. In favor. All opposed?
19:44:03 Shane. 2. Okay, Thank you. Yeah.
19:44:16 That's.
19:44:21 Yeah. And the issues that we identified in this staff report. In. Yeah, we have other things to talk about in terms of, But I wanna make sure that there aren't any other issues.
19:44:40 Like comment for the there's always a minority view to the DOCC. I've done myself years ago, you know, network. It's a very impact.
19:44:53 And Josh was moving into the. Next topic. Okay, Lisa and Amy there. Problem line provisions.
19:45:06 Okay. Okay.
19:45:05 Yes, so. The common line provisions are in the current code. Currently they apply only to.
19:45:16 Okay.
19:45:16 Non-conforming. Lots. But ecology saw the changes that we had proposed to modest homes, which is a non-conforming lot.
19:45:27 And they saw the changes we had proposed to common line. And felt like there was still a lot of overlap and lack of clarity on where they apply.
19:45:37 So. That's when.
19:45:42 We came back with some options. And one of the options was. You know, first of all, there's standard buffers and then there's options to average or reduce those regardless of
whether you have a conforming or non-conforming lot.
19:46:01 There's just provision and whatever type of use you are really you have the option of requesting buffer averaging or buffer reduction.
19:46:12 And so that's there regardless. Then we have modest home, which is. Could you fit a reasonably sized home on a non-conforming lot?
19:46:22 Where you can't get sufficient depth to have both the buffer and and the home and the other setbacks.
19:46:28 Common line was in the code as a way to bring in the consideration of how having views comparable to your neighbor's lots.
19:46:38 Back in August we shared some analysis that showed There's not much difference in the view you would get.
19:46:47 From several lots that we tested, whether you use the standard. The average or averaging or reduction that you could get from the standard buffer versus the common line where
you're looking at your neighbor's properties.
19:47:05 So back in in the hearing draft, we had 2 options. Option A was remove the common line because it's not producing a different result.
19:47:16 And ecology's comments where this is confusing. Option B was to modify the common line so that it had some more parameters that result that distinguished it from modest home
so that option B was.
19:47:36 Only for conforming lots. And in order to get the red buffered reduction for purpose of views.
19:47:42 You had to show that you've exhausted other forms of relief in the code like the buffer averaging or the buffer reduction and you provided for an enhancement of the shoreline
frontage in exchange for the change in the in the buffer.
19:48:02 Setback. So we had option A and option be option a takeout common line no longer having overlap.
19:48:10 Option B was make it distinct and make it for conforming lots. But with enough parameters to show that you've.
19:48:17 You've done what you can with other provisions in the code. Then we got a comment from. WDF W concerned about some of the provisions proposed in the code.
19:48:32 Not just common line but other things And so we were suggesting as a nod toward some of their concerns about encroachment.
19:48:42 On the buffer would be to. Go with option A. So the November first document went with option A to remove the common line provision.
19:48:54 Use the other tools to achieve the objective. And then some of the comments from the Planning Commission's discussions were the.
19:49:07 By doing that, are we removing. Something that that folks can easily understand trying to get a similar setback as your neighbors and and having a view.
19:49:18 So just to go through the options option. One is maintain the approach in the November first draft which is remove the common line.
19:49:29 That helps with ecology and WDFW comments. Option 2 is maintain. The approach. Which is focus on MoD but in an attempt to bring in common line as a factor in where you land
with that buffer.
19:49:47 We could reinstate some provisions that are down here below the chart. So that in the modest home.
19:49:56 Where you land on your lot is the greater of either the average of the nearest abiding residential structures meaning common line.
19:50:07 Or 30 feet which so whichever is greater 30 feet or the common line. And that we would keep some of the language on the common line so that you could apply this in the modest
home.
19:50:20 That way we're trying to solve the ecology issue with. Trying to make it distinct. As to when you bring in common line versus modest home.
19:50:30 But we still, bring that in as a consideration. That's what option 2 is, is a kind of a blend, but still trying to make it a factor in modest home.
19:50:42 And then option B is what we had in the hearing draft. Which is Common line is only for conforming lots.
19:50:55 Modest home stays for non-conforming lots. So those are 3 options. I do have some of the material we referenced in August second.
19:51:04 It to bring up in case we need some more clarification that And that is the overview of what's on this slide.
19:51:14 The one additional point I can add that I'm sorry if you already said this is that the current and the current master program, common line provision only applies to non, does
not invite a confirm.
19:51:29 If you have a lot, it's deep enough, you have to do with the full buffer or you go through the buffer, or you go through the buffer reduction process that shows that you're
not, you have to do with the full buffer or you go through the buffer reduction process that shows that you're not going to have to keep up. There's no netlocks.
19:51:38 So I just want to clarify that. The third option here talks about possibly allowing the common line on to conforming loss as a way to differentiate with an occupying loss.
19:51:46 Knock on phone last will get a modest talk provision. Conformance like could possibly realize.
19:51:50 They. The, so, to clarification, what is the exact definition of modest home?
19:52:02 Good question. Can we pull, could you either answer that one of you?
19:52:05 Yeah, I think what I could do Josh is bring back some slides we had from August second because we kind of summarized it.
19:52:15 I think we can always pull up the exact code, but I think if I go through this slide, it'll be easier.
19:52:21 Okay, and just.
19:52:21 So the left hand side is that standard approach. You have a conforming lot, you meet the standard buffer.
19:52:29 Which is either 150 feet or 100 feet or there's a process for reducing or averaging right now you can only get 75% of the standard buffer meaning 25% discount.
19:52:43 We've added a potential to go to 50%. Discount. The non-conforming lot, this would be a modest home provision.
19:52:54 Because the current code is a bit confusing. So we've defined the non-conforming lot as the combination of your standard buffer plus the building setback.
19:53:06 Plus at least a 40 foot house. And and a street setback. And that is pretty much about a 2,500 square foot.
19:53:17 Building area plus an allowance for a driveway. So we came up with this, based on other examples and local conditions and tried to clarify and so you'll see the definition of
non-conforming lot having a lot of this verbiage.
19:53:35 And then.
19:53:35 And the 2,500 square, is that actually part of the current SNP? The way it is right now.
19:53:43 Yeah, there's something.
19:53:47 The reason why I ask is, again, just going back to well, maybe we looked at up and then go the point of that would be so you've got you've got a lot that might otherwise be
available right and so under US Constitution.
19:54:06 Jurisprudence. We're saying that a reasonable economic use of that property to allow something to occur.
19:54:13 So we're allowing something modest to her rather than something large on this party very small plot that you might not be able to build.
19:54:24 Sure.
19:54:24 I said the regulations but so that's that's what a modest part. In that, as well.
19:54:30 I'm finally on the permit right now and lost. So those limits are there to keep it really big on and but you're lots so short that you have no way.
19:54:37 So those limits are there to keep it really big on and but you're lots so short that you have minimum area with the, or is that, oh, driveway or max.
19:54:47 So that, between the 2 would be the 30, 3,600 square feet. That's good coverage thing.
19:54:59 So like you could do attire strips. Yes. Sure.
19:55:05 And we can double check that, size. But the idea was to try to make that clear as to when you would use a modest home.
19:55:17 It's a non-conforming lot that's defined by you can't fit everything in basically.
19:55:22 And trying to, as you say, have a footprint. Cap to. Common line as Josh mentioned right now today is only for nonconforming lots.
19:55:36 Ecology found that these 2 provisions in a similar section side by side were really confusing and it wasn't clear when you use one or the other.
19:55:45 So the approach back in the hearing draft was to show either option A, which is get rid of common line or B, which is amend it with some of these, provisions.
19:55:58 So number one, that it pertains to a conforming lot. Number 2 that it, shows that you're trying to match what's more closely near you and the 150 foot on either side of the
home is more consistent with the shoreline master program guidebook and other examples.
19:56:18 And then. There was a memo in your August packet that showed. That pretty much.
19:56:26 As well on the common line that you have similar. Provisions to enhance the shoreline frontage, etc.
19:56:35 But that pretty much you could get to a very similar location on a lot. Whether you had the common line or this process for reducing.
19:56:44 The buffer. And so in this spirit of trying to simplify and still get to a similar place that was the reason for option option A was don't have a common line this Was option
B to try to make it fit with more clear distinctions.
19:57:04 So Again, option A and B, we're already in the hearing draft where the 11 one version to try to then see like we also had comments from DFW concerned about buffer condition
we thought well between ecology and the DFW comments we brought forward the idea well option A that's what landed in November first.
19:57:28 Option B is on the list here because it we did. Try to make amendments to it to also make it distinct.
19:57:36 Okay.
19:57:34 You could go with option B. Something in between is get rid of common line, but as its own separate path, but bring it in as a consideration for modest home.
19:57:46 That common line may may be a rationale for where you land on a wide. Where the buffer is.
19:57:54 That we would still. We would still have the ability to use the parameters. And using your neighbors, the location of neighboring houses to help set your modest home.
19:58:07 Buffer. So that's where that's what option 2 is.
19:58:13 Lisa, could you clarify that often 3, which, a, is option B, on the hearing draft, that, yeah, if we did this idea of moving, there still would be an environmental factor.
19:58:31 Right.
19:58:31 That, that, it's not just as simple as see what houses are either side of, it's not just as simple as see where the houses are either side of, but there still is the component
of demonstrating on that bus.
19:58:43 Is that true?
19:58:43 That's true and in addition it would have the enhancement of 80% of the shoreline frontage.
19:58:51 It has a lot of the same parameters as the modest home. Changes that we made to respond to comments from aology and tribes and so forth.
19:59:02 Couple years ago. It has all of those things. But it then is distinct by saying it applies to conforming lots.
19:59:12 And that's your option 3 here.
19:59:15 Okay.
19:59:14 That's right. And both options one and 3 were in the hearing draft. The option 2 is sort of a blend.
19:59:25 It's trying to respond to the comments we heard from Planning Commission, meeting or 2 ago.
19:59:30 That common line might make some sense to retain because that's a lot of people understand that as a rationale for.
19:59:38 Where homes are on a lot.
19:59:41 You know, for the Department of Ecology, they would be okay with us maintaining modest home provision for non-conforming lots to allow people to build on lots that they can't
get their buffers in and separating then common line into conforming lots.
20:00:01 That way the 2 are clearly distinct where they're allowed and not allowed and yet a common line allows someone who might otherwise have to be a hundred 65 B.
20:00:11 Back with 2 houses up in front of them. To move forward but then also comply with the additional restrictions on the 8% of the short or the area being.
20:00:27 Mitigated properly with biologist, support planting, etc. Okay, so.
20:00:31 Heycology hasn't formally said what they think of this hearing draft basically on the prior draft.
20:00:39 That the planning commission sent back in the fall of 2021 ecology came back and said I have the exact language ready to pull up if we want but basically it was the effect of
We understand that you want to have these 2 provisions. We're still confused.
20:00:54 Please bring us back something. That makes them distinct.
20:00:56 Yeah. It's wrong they're just saying it's wrong. They're just saying that they want to get so so one of them they both kids at And Mason counties allow common line in there's
it makes very clear that they allow it and with environmental.
20:01:14 Provisions in this, there isn't a problem with that and we're gonna be the one that makes her to go back and Because the problem that happens in these that I've seen is a lot
of our lots of really narrow but maybe very deep. You might have applied at your water piece.
20:01:31 That's only 150 feet wide. Now you have to be way, way back behind your neighbors if you're not allowed to be in common line and you basically get to look at your neighbor's
houses and you're down to this little tiny postage.
20:01:46 And it just, and we're still applying the net loss. Yeah, we're still applying.
20:01:50 Mitigation, right? So do any of these options then work for ULD? Yeah, actually, I think the option B is good, but I think actually the option options, which one, that'd be
3 on the paper.
20:02:13 Yeah, 3, 3. Yeah, That will begin. All in favor of adopting out his company.
20:02:37 Well, I was, I mean, I just figured. It's worth mentioning the.
20:02:43 The. That they thought this was all they said it wasn't clear. They didn't say that it was bad.
20:02:51 Right.
20:02:52 That was the Department of Ecology that wanted to clarify WDF W was concerned they've come out with some buffer recommendations a couple of years ago.
20:03:04 They'd like to see all jurisdictions use site potential tree height. Which is what would be the the typical height of a tree it left to natural conditions.
20:03:17 And tree fall in that distance would be site potential tree height. They had some other concerns about some of the allowances for non-conforming structures.
20:03:31 And And this section in general, so one nod towards some of the concerns they had was you know, potentially going with option A, which is we don't know that we need common line
and we have other ways to get there.
20:03:47 And it might simplify the code. So that was the rationale for. I'm going with option A in relation to WDFW comments.
20:03:56 We feel like a lot of the provisions that we added even a couple of years ago were following from the comments we got.
20:04:04 Tribes and other agencies around the enhancement, the buffer planting plan, limiting the size and scope of things.
20:04:13 So there were a number of changes we made at that time. Which we've pointed out in response to this comment, but, we thought this might be one more nod.
20:04:22 Towards a concern that they raised.
20:04:26 Thank you. Any additional discussion?
20:04:30 Nobody all in favor of adopting option 3 raise your hand 234-56-7877 yes Opposed?
20:04:45 Cool. Passes. And the last thing on our agenda is planning. If you wanted to send his laptop all later, I don't even think, Okay.
20:05:10 I know the very last one you're at, right? But let's, oh, where do we have to clarify the standard upper reduction is this do you wanna just hit on that?
20:05:20 Okay, so we make sure we just. Good morning.
20:05:21 There it's really a clarification. We've been trying to. Make sure that the connection between the shoreline master program and critical areas is is clear and we realized that
This highlighted language down here at the bottom would really be helpful to making sure that what we're saying in the shoreline master program about allowing for a buffer reduction
and when you go.
20:05:50 You know We've added the 50% maximum buffer reduction, which is similar to the critical areas ordinance when a special report is prepared.
20:06:00 We feel this highlighted language edition would be more clear. As to when you do the standard buffer reduction, which is 25% off versus when you go for a 50% off.
20:06:14 You do that when you have the special report. Prepared by a qualified professional. So that's a request to clarify to make it more parallel between the 2.
20:06:26 Number 2 option. Second second. Okay. And more future approval.
20:06:39 Option 2 under clarifies, but which standard reduction? Oh, it's more, a bigger raise than.
20:06:46 4, 5, 6, yeah. Opposed?
20:06:55 2 o'clock. Okay. Okay, sorry. And then the last one.
20:07:05 That's the, with all the changes they didn't. Put things in alphabetical order.
20:07:15 Not very good. It's all on there. And it's about 10Â min, please attend when we're going to have a an action.
20:07:31 These meetings. It's in the, it's always the agenda. It'll say it actually, it's expected.
20:07:41 And, I understood the results of this evening's folks. Yes, they're all all their issues and people voted different ways for each issue.
20:07:55 So my understanding is that the planning commission is recommending. The master program. As amended by the votes calling.
20:08:06 Like we could try to take a final note. I'd say this is what we're moving forward at with all the results of all the debates.
20:08:14 But that would mean, but in terms of a final vote, but I so I'm not really sure what to do exactly.
20:08:19 I can go over and say, I'm not really sure what to do exactly. I can I can go over and say that I should have specific recommendations on these elements but overall everything
else has specific representations of these elements, but overall everything else has been moved.
20:08:27 I don't think we finally got a phone. I don't think we've finally got a phone. We've finally got a phone.
20:08:43 It's well, we're, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, opposed.
20:08:44 One and abstain. I can ask question the recent year because you want to see the final graph first.
20:09:24 If you don't see me here in a meeting and you have to give me a call, anybody, I'll jump on Zoom. I'll get here.
20:09:28 I missed the last one. Just I got back from a trip and was backing and off on another one.
20:09:35 Yeah, maybe set your line. Before I said that, feel free to shout at me and say, get your bed over here and jump on Zoom.
20:09:43 I will happily do it. I really appreciate everybody. You know, you're on extra meetings.