HomeMy WebLinkAboutchat09:09:29 From Chambers : Note: There will be another comment period after the Shoreline Master Program (SMP) update discussion at 10:30 a.m.
09:45:06 From Chambers to Dr. Allison Berry (she/they) and all panelists : Hi Dr. Berry - the Commissioners are running behind and currently wrapping up Board of Equalization interviews.
09:48:49 From Chambers to G. Daniel Bugel-Shunra and all panelists : Hi G. Daniel - the Commissioners do not currently have a public comment period. If this is in regards to the
SMP, there is a comment period for that at 10:30 am
11:52:51 From Chambers to Greg Brotherton(Direct Message) : Can you ask Josh to provide an email address to direct questions re: SMP, for those not familiar with the process
12:04:10 From Chambers to Steve Dittmar(Direct Message) : You can type your comment here Steve
09:01:13 Those are the gift to your library. Oh, thank you. Don't want them back.
09:01:26 Thank you.
09:01:32 Alright, you are ready, Carol. Okay. Good morning, everyone. I will call this December eleventh meeting of the Board of County Commissioners to order.
09:01:45 A very busy day today. So I'm glad to have some folks in the. The chambers with us as well and just a few a few highlights.
09:01:54 We've got some board of equalization interviews that we have to get done today in a very busy day as well.
09:01:59 So we're going to cut public comment at 9 30 this morning. We'll make sure that we give everyone an opportunity to, to speak.
09:02:07 We also have a few issues that we're dealing with later in the day that are of interest to a lot of people I know we're going to be dealing with whether or not to have a hearing
on the SNP recommendations from the Planning Commission at 1030 will take more public comment at that time, but we can hear about those issues now as well.
09:02:24 We're talking about the pool at 3 o'clock. We'll take comments now, but we'll make sure to add public comments for any potential action there.
09:02:33 And, finally we're finalizing our budgets and people will have an opportunity to talk there as well.
09:02:40 That's a joke. No one came to our budget hearing. All right. We did, but we'd still love to get from you.
09:02:48 Okay. So with that, we would love to hear from you. So yeah, can I see, does everyone want to make public comment today in the room?
09:02:54 Can I see a show of hands? Okay, well we got 3Â min. All right, so please come on up Fritz and you have 3Â min to talk anything you like Good to see you again.
09:03:05 Well, it's good to be here. I'd like to congratulate Commissioner Dean for deciding to run for the House of Representatives.
09:03:12 I think she'll be a great contribution to on congress women will never have equal rights or equal pay until half a Congress of women.
09:03:23 So it's a step forward in that direction. I want to discuss inflation rate. The Federal Reserve would have you believe the inflation rates 3 or 4% thought is about 10%.
09:03:37 It's been above 10% for last 15 years. That's why why you can't make ends meet and house prices that was 30 years ago, 60,000 or now 600,000, or now 600,000, or now 600,000.
09:03:50 Every 10 years. The purchasing power of your wages salaries and retirement income. Decreases by 50%.
09:03:57 What happened was under Ellen Greenspan. Inflation was increasing. So that require an increase in.
09:04:06 Interest rates but on the other hand the economy was weakening and require a cut in interest rates. So being a genius, what he did was he just changed how you calculate inflation.
09:04:20 Before Greenspan. Who's fetch her for 19 years? Inflation was calculated by market basket.
09:04:27 Of items like retire, your housing was 42%. Plus, and then there's a certain percentage for, for, for education, food, clothing, medicine, so forth.
09:04:44 So what he changed. Was he put?
09:04:51 Changing the items in the market. Plus putting encryption factors. Like medicine is getting better and new items.
09:05:02 So yeah, put in a 10% correction factor. Housing, how is it getting bigger?
09:05:08 You put in a correction factor. As a result, they come up with whatever they want to come up with.
09:05:14 And the justification is inflation now is what it feels. Like, and it feels like. Inflation is 3%.
09:05:23 So they put down 3%. It's actually 10%. I saw an item. Oh, over the internet was.
09:05:32 If you have 2.5 million. Dollars of worth of income producing property, can you afford retire?
09:05:41 Well, we have people have 2.5 million dollars. I mean the whole thing is ridiculous. Pity the poor woman has 2 children and she's trying to make it on $15 an hour.
09:05:55 Job. She can't possibly do it. The whole the whole thing is but if you want to look the bright side we now have 800 billionaires.
09:06:07 And under Reagan, we started out with 23. That's, that's time, Mr. Fred.
09:06:16 Good luck. Yeah, that's nice. Nicely time. Right.
09:06:20 And just as a to let everyone know, we'll listen to all the public comment and then respond to all the public comment and then respond all the public comment and then respond
to all the public comment and then respond all the public comment if there if there's a break we can respond to all the public comment if there if there's a break we can respond before
9 30 all right who else in the room would like to make public comment this
09:06:29 morning Yes, please, Miss Shelter.
09:06:33 I'm Marilyn Show Walter. I'm going to speak to you while your minds are still fresh.
09:06:38 I live at 1596 Shine Road on property I've owned for 47 years. I'm here to urge you to hold a public hearing on SMP.
09:06:46 And I'd like to make 4 points. One is a new, very neutral one. There's 7 or 800 pages of information.
09:06:55 That the public has had less than one business day to evaluate. And I suspect others haven't had time to go through it.
09:07:03 I think it would benefit everyone. To let us look through the language itself. Second, as you know, I end at least 91 other people who wrote you a letter oppose.
09:07:16 The Planning Commission recommendation. Because it's arbitrary and discriminatory. Putting 11 tons of PVC into one acre of tide lands is a new environmental event.
09:07:31 Whether it's on Brand new Titans of a new owner. Or new tide lands of an existing owner or.
09:07:39 Hidlands that are currently used for oysters or clams. There is no justification for treating those events differently in terms of the permitting process.
09:07:50 The third point I wanna just comment a bit on the economic arguments you've been hearing. First, we are not talking about the shellfish industry or the fishing industry, we
are talking about gooey ducks.
09:08:05 But on that subject. Gooey ducks and shellfish clams, whatever.
09:08:13 Hey, no being no tax. There is no retail tax. And the tideland tech you can confirm with your assessor.
09:08:21 That tide lands are taxed at $20 a front foot. Whereas the uplands, as say in my neighborhood, are Tax that beyond or above $2,000 a front foot.
09:08:34 So as a result, the property taxes you're getting off this are just paltry.
09:08:40 Also, you've heard about employment. In general with goidecs and I think others the wages are very low and generally not full time equivalents.
09:08:50 And at this very moment. Oh, one of the your shellfish operators is applying to the core.
09:08:58 To have mechanical harvesting, which is kind of like a tractor that runs on the ground. To replace workers.
09:09:06 The reason you don't know about this is you have no permits. Finally, The reason we support a CEO, FCUP, is it's a structured, orderly process for taking in the relevant evidence.
09:09:18 And a decision maker who makes a decision. Neutrally based on the record. Thank you.
09:09:25 And have a good help, Ed. Thank you, Mr. Wald. Okay, who else in the room?
09:09:29 Would like to make public come today? I'm sorry, I haven't signed the solidarity statement.
09:09:37 It's on my list. Okay. All right. So I will share 2 weeks ago.
09:09:40 Checking on behalf of the Jefferson County, and the Jefferson County, Palestine Solidarity Group.
09:09:47 I'm asking if you would be willing to pass a resolution. Asking for a so your response then was that you were going to study the issue.
09:10:01 And we show it's not 2 weeks further on. 10,000 more people have died. Also, since yesterday.
09:10:11 The Israeli government has so much admitted. That the goal to to eliminate how much is pretty much impossible. So it's makes the killing of innocent people.
09:10:25 Older people children in particular even more senseless so I would like to know where you are now in this, in this request.
09:10:34 Thank you very much. Thank you, Andrew. Anyone else in the room like to make public comment this morning?
09:10:41 Okay, in the back, John, and then Cynthia.
09:10:51 Good morning commissioners. My name is John Fabian. I live at 100 Cheyenne Road.
09:10:57 And I've lived in a house that I now occupy for something over 25 years.
09:11:04 I used to be a regular attendee at these meetings. I was known as something of a troublemaker, I guess, because we would organized a group to kill the.
09:11:14 Pet the pair project, Industrial Harbor. Facility on her canal. And with the help of the Navy and the tribes.
09:11:23 A lot of sportsmen and a lot of homeowners. How we did that. Maybe you've heard this before.
09:11:31 Maybe not. But in these fights between people. And corporations. The corporations are hoping that those of us who are aged die.
09:11:42 Before we can cost too much trouble and we hope they go bankrupt. Well, the outcome in this particular one was that Fred Hill material went bankrupt.
09:11:53 And I'm still here. I've lived on Shine Road as I say for 25 years.
09:11:59 And I've seen some people come and people go, it's a, it's a finest neighborhood in the county.
09:12:04 It really is. We're very proud of our area. And we have our share of trouble. We've got a road that's eroding away.
09:12:14 8. One lane road that's marked as 2. And, we have an operation going on on our on our shoreline on our on our beaches.
09:12:27 I would to grow my attention and the attention of many others. Who live in our community. And it's about the responsibility of the county.
09:12:36 2, protect. The citizens. And the responsibility of the county to make sure that our economy doesn't go.
09:12:45 Belly up and it's a choice. I understand that is a choice. But I ask you today to think about.
09:12:51 What should that decision process look like? Should we maximize the amount? Public input into the process at every stage.
09:13:01 Or should we not? That's what this is about. That's what the public comment period is about.
09:13:07 And I hope that you make a Good decision at your later meeting today. Who, pay attention.
09:13:15 To the will and the wishes. Of your constituents. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Fabian.
09:13:22 Alright, we will make time. Don't worry, people online will have an opportunity as well. I'm gonna hit the in person folks first.
09:13:29 Morning everybody. My name is Cynthia Cohen and I'm a District One planning commissioner.
09:13:35 For the, for Jefferson County. I'm here today to talk about conditional use permits and the SMP that the Planning Commission just sent our recommendations for.
09:13:49 Up to you. It looks to you that the planning commission voted, I think, 8 to one to send those recommendations forward.
09:14:00 I was or 7 to one. I'm not sure. It went up. Yeah. I was the one.
09:14:05 No. And what you can't see, although you may know, is that the Planning Commission actually struggled much more on one particular issue particularly.
09:14:18 And when we were asked to go back and look at it, we, we reached a different conclusion that I wanted to do.
09:14:26 So conditional use permits. Are we're going to see a conditional use permit on any expansions conversions or farming in Jefferson County that hasn't been true.
09:14:44 We have current farms that I haven't had any conditional use permit. Specifically the conditional use permit.
09:14:53 That affects any new farms that's in place. We're good. It's going to be a standard conditional use permit.
09:15:00 I support that. For all the time we've been looking at this. This SMP. The rest of the use table also used standard conditional use permits.
09:15:13 And all of a sudden, a couple of months ago, it was changed. And honest to God, I asked over and over and over again why that happened and I've never gotten a straight answer.
09:15:23 From my point of view, conversions are the same as new. They are a new business doing, or sorry, they're an existing business doing a new kind of of operation.
09:15:38 So we don't have anything about their operation at that point. So to my point, from my point of view, conversions are the same as new and shouldn't be treated differently.
09:15:47 And expansions in in this case where we have existing farms that have never gone through a conditional use permit process.
09:15:58 I believe we also should have a full review. Guaranteed full review for the public. I understand that a conditional use permit still gives a public process, but frankly a written
process that is still hidden from the public and I'd like to guarantee the public that they have a full standard conditional use permit for all.
09:16:16 Conversions, new and, and, expansions. And I hope you do. Do a new hearing for the SMP.
09:16:28 Thank you. Anyone else in the room like to make public comment? Come on up, sir.
09:16:36 Good morning. My name is Vince Santiago. I live on Discovery Bay.
09:16:42 2 groups of formed with opposing views regarding regarding the cut proposal. One's a growing number of individual.
09:16:50 Residents, constituents and taxpayers. On the other side stands the various shellfish forming operators and those that hold the shellfish farming rights on our, on our tide
lands, the shellfish farming lobby.
09:17:07 The cut proposal does not seek to eliminate or limit shellfish. Farming. It simply requires that shellfish farming lobby take steps to ensure conformance with existing regulations.
09:17:18 The Jefferson County Planning Commission characterized this requirement as burdensome. We want to go carbon neutral by 2030 throughout the entire state.
09:17:29 That's already proving to be burdensome. Additional administrative process pales in comparison to that burden.
09:17:38 I pay property tax. Jefferson County assesses a premium on my property because of the ascetic value of bordering the tide lands.
09:17:49 I have no say. With respect to the Tailand's use. While the shellfish lobbying farming lobby actually destroys the aesthetic value of my land.
09:18:01 And as mentioned earlier, very, very little taxes paid on those tidings. The shellfish farming lobby claims to follow all, all applicable laws governing tideland use.
09:18:14 I provided Jefferson County. Evidence to the to the contrary. Last year, the shellfish farming lobby started submitting letters of permit permission which actually circumvent
the entire permitting process.
09:18:31 This year they're proposing to dump 25 to 100 yards. A pee gravel every year.
09:18:39 On tidlands in order to facilitate the use of heavy equipment while they harvest. These are but 3 examples of why I think that our county government needs to help us scrutinize
this industry a little bit more.
09:18:53 The destruction of the tide lands causes irreversible damage to the food chain. The EO grass goes first.
09:19:01 Then the forged fish. Then the salmon and then the whales, not just the orcas.
09:19:09 We've had a lot of meetings and we appreciate that. I invite anyone to come out to our land.
09:19:16 And walk in my shoes and see. What the changes that were affected up. Waters from us have had on our property.
09:19:27 I have a suggestion. A couple of years ago, there was a moratorium placed. On building whilst very very sticky issues with regards to zoning were worked out.
09:19:41 Right. Finish your sentence, please. Perhaps we might consider the same. Thank you.
09:19:50 Anyone else in the room like to make public comment today?
09:19:56 Alright, we'll go online and come back to the room again. So we have a couple hands.
09:20:02 Let's see. Just fans. Why don't we bring? Margaret over Oops, I'm sorry.
09:20:17 Okay. Right, we'll start with Margaret Taylor. Good to see you.
09:20:26 Hi, good to see you too. Commissioners Brethington, Eisenhower and Dean.
09:20:34 I am a member of your Board of Equalization. And I understand that you're going to be interviewing potential members today.
09:20:43 I just wanted to do just a really brief overview of the board and why I like being on the board.
09:20:51 Many property owners will come up and say because my values have increased on my house I'm going to be paying more taxes.
09:20:59 And they're very concerned about that. But you need to take into account there's 2 components.
09:21:06 One is the revenue side and you know we've all seen our statements and you guys were just in a budget hearing.
09:21:12 So we have the total amount of revenue that's connected that has to be collected. And then that's assessed against all the real property owners.
09:21:22 Based on the fair market value of their properties. So you could have a scenario where everybody pays the same amount of tax even though the assessed value of everyone everyone's
property has gone up.
09:21:36 So it's the responsibility of the board of equalization to really look at those fair market values to make sure that they're equally applied and the tax is equally applied.
09:21:50 Across those values. And so you're looking for people that like looking at fair market values of properties and that it's not a policy board.
09:22:01 I do like working on it and helping you in that regard because we have had some instances for example a taxpayer is unable to work with the assessors representative and they've
come in and say for example their porch is falling off the back of their house.
09:22:21 Or the interior of the house hasn't been done and the assessors representative doesn't go on the inside.
09:22:29 So that's why I like being on the board and thank you for your help in finding us a new board member.
09:22:36 Thank you so much, Miss Taylor, and please stick around. We're going to be doing those interviews at 9 30.
09:22:40 Okay, thank you.
09:22:47 Good morning commissioners. I want to address an item that said item number one on your consent agenda this morning.
09:22:55 This is a resolution adopting a new set of fees for fire inspections. Have couple of concerns about it and I first and foremost request that you pull this item off of consent
and here's why.
09:23:07 This is the first time it's been seen. This is the first touch and yet you're going to pass a resolution on the consent agenda with no public comment, no public testimony.
09:23:15 No prior exposure to what these fees are. What they're going to be or how much they're going to be.
09:23:20 Seems pretty unreasonable and it seems like it's unprecedented you know adopting fees that public is going to be charged.
09:23:29 Without any sort of public process. So that's, that's my first request. I have a couple of specific comments about what's being proposed, that, that, well, first of all, the
fees as listed make almost no sense.
09:23:43 Because they are they are described. Some of them, like one of them says, hey, if you have a mobile food truck that your inspection is good for a year.
09:23:53 Well, what about the rest of the inspections? Are they annual? Are they one time? How long are they good for?
09:23:58 It doesn't say. It's simply undefined in in the fee schedule or any place else that I can see.
09:24:04 Maybe it is, but I haven't been able to find it. There's another item on the list that is only described as quote hot work.
09:24:12 Unquote, 300 some dollars. What the heck is that? I have no clue.
09:24:18 And I don't think anybody else does either. Another one of particular concern to me is solar panels, $222.
09:24:25 For what? Why? Permit was paid to DCD at the time that I installed.
09:24:30 I solar panels and even though nobody from DCD ever came to physically do the inspection, so I paid a fee for nothing.
09:24:37 But aside from that, first of all, electrical inspections of the province of the state, not the county.
09:24:42 You go to state Illinois if you have an electrical permit. So also, so we're panels, fire inspection, wait a minute.
09:24:50 I would bet that an electric stove top has a far greater fire risk than a solar panel. What the heck is the fire inspection fee doing with respect to silver panels?
09:25:01 Makes absolutely no sense. Again, please pull this thing for consent. Let's have a proper discussion and presentation of the details behind these fees before we proceed.
09:25:11 Thanks very much.
09:25:18 It's my fault that's on the agenda review and when we changed our fees to ordinance, we said, oh, but there's still going to be a transparent process.
09:25:24 So having brand new fees on the consent agenda. Not what we intended. We'll definitely pull it and have a more robust conversation.
09:25:30 We might not have time to do that today because Don't tell DCD, but we're doing a lot of hot work today.
09:25:36 So, oh, okay. It was a joke. Okay. So we'll go to Mr. Meet and if we can keep things fairly brief, you still have 3Â min as everyone else did, but we'd love to be able to respond
before a 9 30 interviews.
09:25:50 Go ahead, Mr.
09:25:55 Daniel J. Meade, you can get yourself unmuted. We'd love to hear from you.
09:26:03 We can hear you.
09:26:00 Okay. We are. Okay, my name is Dan Made. I live at 88 Driftwood Court in Port Ludlow.
09:26:12 20 year resident. I want to comment on the Paradise Bay route 104 problem. First I'm quite sure the board is fully aware that this is the most dangerous intersection in the
county.
09:26:27 Second, I'd like to comment that the leader, article of November fifteenth 2023, showing more than one accident per month over a 5 year period, was quite helpful.
09:26:42 And I noticed in passing. The November 20 ninth article on the 2 recent deaths at this center section.
09:26:51 One specific problem I'd like to highlight based on, 20 plus years, making a left turn.
09:26:59 From Paradise Bay on to route 104 is it? Traffic coming east to west on the bridge thus 10 to maintain a 40 mile per hour speed limit.
09:27:11 Until they reach the west end of the bridge. Then many cars accelerate to 60 miles per hour.
09:27:20 It is 2 tenths of a mile from the end of the bridge to the Paradise Bay road.
09:27:26 Hey, car, going 60 miles per hour, obviously. Reaches a turning car entering route 104.
09:27:35 Faster and with more killing power than when going 40.
09:27:41 To me, this is apparently a natural desire. To adjust speed from 40 miles per hour on the bridge.
09:27:50 To a roadway that you're now on that becomes a 60 mile per hour limit for most of its length.
09:27:58 But not the 2 tenths of a mile to Paradise Bay. It's irresistible to many drivers simply, to, do 60 miles, per hour, a little early.
09:28:13 But just simply put, kills people. My suggestion would be to put a radar activated.
09:28:21 40 mile per hour sign on route 104 Slightly west of the end of the road and in force.
09:28:29 The 40, mile per hour, limit from the end of the bridge. To Paradise Bay.
09:28:35 In 20 years I've never seen a radar control spend indicator here. And to me it's the one place in the county where it's most needed.
09:28:47 Just some random comments that zoom works well. Jefferson County staff which I interacted to get on this, does a great job.
09:28:57 They're a pleasure to work with. And the last point, it's good to hear citizens expressing their views to.
09:29:03 Elective representatives who are listening to them. Thank you. I think I came in under 3Â min.
09:29:09 Thank you, Alright, how are you? Great. Mr. Serranis, I always say, and I'm wrong, Jason.
09:29:17 We'd love to hear from you.
09:29:20 Yes, we can.
09:29:17 Yes, yes, it's Serena's can you hear me Okay, great. So I have been doing my best to follow the whole pull discussion.
09:29:27 Which is quite a discussion with a lot of action on social media And it seems to me that before a decision is made by the county commissioners that a few questions kind of need
the public needs to have a sense that you have fully addressed in your own research a number of issues.
09:29:54 One is the the suggestion that the pool relocate. To an area located in an area other than Port Townsend.
09:30:05 Now the argument that is constantly given by the people who are advocating for the pool in Port Townsend.
09:30:10 Is that no one else has the infrastructure. If you find that not to be the case, I would like to hear why and I'm not taking a side one or the other and what and if you've researched
that and if that assertion on the part of the coalition, etc.
09:30:31 Is not true. The second thing is people constantly calling for repair of the pool when in my own discussions with David Faber and Amy Howard.
09:30:41 I've been told that that is simply impossible that we cannot keep on being repaired that is just sucking money that you can't get the parts, etc, etc, etc.
09:30:52 Then the third question is, is there any way to scale down the pool in the way that meets people's needs but avoids adding another tax which of course is a big big issue and
I do not pretend that I am aipped to fully address it.
09:31:11 As we all know, there has been a huge Push with meetings all over the county very very well organized against this pool.
09:31:21 I'm not going to go into or even begin to approach The various motivations, some of which I would really question about all of this entire movement.
09:31:34 We're unfortunately in the middle of it the needs of people and desire for a pool. I mean my neighbors who have 2 kids just drove an hour to part to show that their kids could
use the pool that whose features would be some of the features that have been proposed for this new pool.
09:31:54 And they drove an hour each way. But we, in addition to all of these meetings, all these alternate proposals of why didn't they consider this why did they consider that they're
going to be cost overruns they've been all of these you know one roadblock after the other with this constant campaign so I think it's important when you make a decision, any decision
that people understand again, your
09:32:21 whole reasoning, your research, etc. That's what I feel very strongly and thank you.
09:32:29 Thank you, Mr. Serena. Okay, it is after 9 30. So I'm gonna close public comment.
09:32:35 Do we have? Miss Blanchard and and Mr. Langford in the room. Okay, great.
09:32:41 We're going to be just a minute late so we can respond. So I hope you guys have a few moments, but.
09:32:48 Can you keep it to a minute? Alright, come on up. It's like the greatest hits today.
09:32:54 Yeah, Gordon King, Bell Street for Townsend. Yep, listening to comments on shellfish farming.
09:33:03 I'm offended and I take exception to the characterization that shellfish farming, it pays poor wages.
09:33:12 I've been here in this community 32 years the whole time that I have been in this community.
09:33:18 I've been working in aquaculture. I have staff that work for me, one for 31 years, another one for 25 years, we pay health insurance and we pay.
09:33:30 You Good wages for relatively untrained people. We also have people with PhDs who work for us who of course get paid a lot more.
09:33:38 But from I guess if you're a waterfront property owner living a privilege then it may be it seems 25 bucks an hour is not very good money but to the people that work for us
they really appreciate it and also have 2 children who've both worked on the GUI Duck Bay.
09:33:59 Dark Farm, Discovery Bay, Guitar Farm and they one is now ICU nurse, helped to go through college and the other one is doing his master's degree and University of New Hampshire.
09:34:12 It's a stepping stone but very important and it's a lot of jobs and I guess to urban people it maybe doesn't matter but there's well over a hundred jobs maybe a couple 100 jobs
in Jefferson County and Sheffield.
09:34:26 So yeah. I don't like to see it. And the way it was this morning. Thank you.
09:34:32 Thank you, Mr. Okay, now closing it for good see how efficient we can be in responding to these myriad and very deep public comments.
09:34:43 They're not gonna do properly by any of these. Easy to say, SMP and Board of Equalization, we're going to be talking about upcoming.
09:34:49 I had the same concern about number one and the consent item that Mr. Chair spread up. Thank you for addressing that, Greg.
09:34:57 Pool will be talking about later as well. Mr. Fritz, I was, where did Mr. Fritzco?
09:35:06 Did he leave? Darn. I, I went to the grocery store to make soup last night and spent $100 on ingredients and was thinking about when I got to meet Alan Greenspan in 1990, I
believe he came to our high school econ class. It was very exciting.
09:35:20 So I was just thinking about El Greenspan last night. And Hendrik, thank you for being here again and continuing to push this.
09:35:28 This is a hard one to do very quickly. Of course, we talked a little bit about it a couple weeks ago.
09:35:37 Could potentially be interested in signing something more similar to what's Seattle City Council signed. The resolution in the link that was provided to us I felt had some language
that was very inflammatory and I don't think helpful in this situation.
09:35:51 So obviously lots more to talk about in meeting with one of your colleagues later this week to discuss this too.
09:35:56 So. More to come. All right, that was pretty efficient.
09:36:04 I don't have a lot to add because most of these issues will be talking about later, but.
09:36:09 I would just say in general there's a lot of comments here about more public comment being open to more public comment.
09:36:16 I've said it over and over again in my time. As a commissioner, I'm very interested in hearing from as many constituents as possible on all issues.
09:36:24 So. I will roll that way in our conversations later this afternoon.
09:36:30 All right. Yeah. Thank you, everyone. Learned a lot and we will.
09:36:37 I think we'll just hold off on the conversation about the S and P until 1030 and the pool until 3 o'clock but I appreciate the perspectives.
09:36:44 Shared. Mr. Fritz, I think I'm gonna see, choose to say, see that he was talking about our budget and how challenging it is with the 1% growth versus the, you know, incredible
inflation that we're seeing right now.
09:36:58 And also, you know, shout out to Jerome Powell. I think he's doing a pretty bang-up job.
09:37:03 And I know it's and I know there's real inflation that people are. Our feeling but the imaginary inflation Mr. Fritz talked about is doing pretty well.
09:37:12 And I, Mr. Hendrick, I'm down for the solidarity letter.
09:37:18 I'm down for a A resolution as well. I wasn't really interested in one that wasn't a consensus.
09:37:25 So hearing what Miss Dean is talking about this morning, I think. I like the Seattle one a lot too, so I think that's something I can certainly support and I feel I do feel
like.
09:37:34 Sandia for peace and a cease fire is something that even though it's not exactly our lane, it's something that as leaders we should do and represent our community.
09:37:42 So I'm happy to do it. And I remember in solidarity. I signed on already.
09:37:48 Yeah, I'm I meant to sign. My only concern is well a couple of concerns one is that I think it's not staying in our lane entirely you know we don't have much say but I understand
how power builds.
09:37:57 Vertically so so want to support that. But the You know, I think we equate ceasefire with a binary.
09:38:07 Decision and and you know I'm not suggesting that that is what is being asked of us but I think that is how it is being talked about right now and I think that is.
09:38:14 Extremely short sighted and that's an inappropriate interpretation. We know how complex, you know, like I said, I have studied in the Middle East.
09:38:25 It is such a complex issue and I am afraid of taking positions that narrow it to a binary decision when I absolutely believe it is not and is way more complex than we could
ever take on in these chambers.
09:38:35 That is true. Okay. Great. Well, thank you, everyone.
09:38:40 We're gonna respect our 2 Board of Equalization applicants and thanks from Margaret to giving us a little update on the reasons we really do designate some of our quasi judicial
role to the board of equalization because we don't want to politicize these questions and the the distinction between.
09:39:00 Assessments and property taxes, one that cannot be restated often enough. So with that, we'll go over our process a little bit.
09:39:08 I believe Joseph Blanchard, you can just come up to the, I guess the, I'm sure you can just come up to the, I guess the, it's Joanie. I'm sorry.
09:39:23 Joseph Langjar, sorry. Yes, I was, I said the first name first. So Joanie, you're gonna go second.
09:39:29 Joe's gonna go first. And, sorry. Too many things I'm paying attention to right now.
09:39:32 So just as for people to know of a little bit more kind of housekeeping we can have between 3 to 7 members of the full equalization.
09:39:43 They are paid $100 per meeting. We can have an alternate whether or not alternates are also paid is an open question that we do not have an answer to.
09:39:49 So we have the option today of appointing one and appointing one alternate. We have the option of appointing.
09:39:57 2 to give them a challenging group of 4 to make these challenging decisions with. This is time critical as I think you have 3 meetings scheduled this week.
09:40:07 So one at 1230 today. So we really would hope to get too late. One at 1230 today. So we really would hope to get too late.
09:40:21 One at 1230 today. So we really would hope to get too late. Yeah, good. So also the budgetary side of things.
09:40:26 If you do add another member, there's, we haven't. Yeah, which is very, very small budget rent.
09:40:31 Yeah. Okay, so with that we have, does everyone have the email from Caroline with the 3 questions?
09:40:37 Okay, so let's not waste any time and everyone had the chance to look at the applications. Really appreciate your interest, Mr. Alongjar.
09:40:44 Is that, am I pronouncing that now? How do you say it? . That's fine.
09:40:49 I can get that. I can get behind that. I'll say it wrong, but I'll say it wrong, but I'll say it wrong, but I'll get I can get behind.
09:40:56 Okay, so thank you, Mr. Along. You are and why don't we just go, I'll do the first question.
09:41:00 I do the second and Kate the third and we'll do that same order with Joanie as well.
09:41:02 So. Mr. Longer, are you willing to commit the personal time required to learn the rules and regs?
09:41:11 Review the documents prior to each hearing and write the decision of the board. The stipend only covers board meetings and hearings.
09:41:17 Yes. Joseph or did you go by Joe or Joe? Joe, have you ever submitted an appeal to revise the property tax evaluation of any real property that you have owned?
09:41:32 No. Okay. Thank you for being here and for applying. Can be hard to fill these positions.
09:41:41 So we're glad to have 2 people these positions. So we're glad to have 2 people, 2 applicants today.
09:41:44 So we're glad to have 2 people, 2 applicants today. Property values are based upon current market conditions.
09:41:45 The board must base its decisions on recent sale of like properties. This creates significant hardship for some property owners.
09:41:53 Will that be okay for you? Well, yes, they have to go through the process. So. Yes, that will be okay.
09:42:02 Okay. Yeah, questions. Yeah, why don't we give you 1Â SA minute just to talk about why you've, why don't we give you 1Â SA minute just to talk about why you've, you, what, a
minute just to talk about why you, you've, you, what, why are you interested in serving in this role?
09:42:17 What's your relevant experience and serving in this role? What's your relevant experience and and what do you think you bring to this role?
09:42:21 What's your relevant experience and what do you think you bring to this, to this role?
09:42:23 Well, it's your relevant experience and what do you think you bring to this, to this role?
09:42:24 Well, as I indicated in the application, I served on the city of Bellevue Board of Adjustment.
09:42:25 Now that was quite a while ago. But we heard among other things primarily a request for variances from the zoning laws and
09:42:35 Often there would be a conflict between one the applicant and the neighbor and they want to expand the deck or something like that.
09:42:44 So you had to Listen to both sides, try to make the. A decision and make it clear to both parties why the decision was made.
09:42:53 So you often had some. Conflict you try to resolve the conflict as best you could. Okay. Sounds like good applicable experience.
09:43:03 Yeah. Thank you very much, Mr. Longer. Thank you. Please stick around for another 3Â min and we'll get through this.
09:43:12 All right, Miss Blanchard, please come up. Appreciate you being here today. So we're gonna ask you the same, I guess, 4 questions.
09:43:18 I added one of my own and I'll start. Are you willing to commit the personal time required to learn the rules and regs, review the documents prior to each hearing and write
the decision of the board.
09:43:27 The siphon only covers board meetings and hearings. Sure am. Tony, I love that you're here.
09:43:34 And I'm gonna ask the same question. Have you submitted an appeal to revise the property tax valuation for any real property that you've owned.
09:43:41 No, I thought of it, but I haven't. And I'm not going to. Okay, great.
09:43:47 I get the difficult one. Property values are based upon current market conditions. The board must base its decision on recent sale of like properties.
09:43:56 This creates significant hardships for some property owners. Will that be okay for you?
09:44:01 It will be if it's protocol and it's the way.
09:44:06 Things work? Yes. State law. All right, Joni, and then one more question and that's just as I offered Joseph Joe, please can you tell us why you're interested in this position
and what you think you bring you would bring to this role?
09:44:24 Hmm, I'm interested because the timing works out for me. It's during my off season and I have the flexibility of time.
09:44:31 To give during the first 4 or 5 months and.
09:44:37 As far as experience, I worked for the New York State Department of Taxation and Finance. So I kind of enjoy learning the laws and the And I looked through the manual.
09:44:49 This weekend and I enjoy learning and I think I got a good grip of. What's required and all the different lots of different aspects to judgment.
09:45:04 Great. And the money. And the money. Yeah, during the off season it's a nice part time.
09:45:11 Okay, and I won't be civically involved a little bit more than I've been.
09:45:16 Great. Alright, thank you so much, Jenny. Thank you. Alright, we got at least 30Â s of deliberation for our radio show start.
09:45:24 So. I'll just say I think we are lucky to have 2 qualified applicants. For this and we really need to continue to build a bench of folks who have the qualifications to do this
work, so we're not so vulnerable when we lose one.
09:45:36 So, I, I would be happy to either appoint both or, or point one as an alternate, but I think we should keep both.
09:45:46 While they're interested and on the hook. I like the idea of having both serve on the board just to bring diversity to the board and.
09:45:56 I think the budget is so small we can probably. Mark. I can probably find funding in the couch cushions, hopefully.
09:46:06 Ty votes. I mean, we're gonna have to build consensus with a group, a board of 4 right now.
09:46:10 Well, as you know, it's my first season doing the VOE. And I'm still learning and reading the manual myself.
09:46:17 I did so that you could add more members if you need necessary. When it comes time to the vote.
09:46:23 And that they'll make, in closed sessions and then come into regular session with their, announcement.
09:46:31 So I'm not sure. And that would be delivering in closed session. Margaret Taylor is still on the line and we can follow in on that.
09:46:39 Yeah, can we ask real quick, Margaret, if you can, we'll try to promote you as a panelist.
09:46:47 I'm just curious on your perspective you guys don't mind on having a 4 member board.
09:46:52 Well, she's coming over. I will say the the whack reads that all orders of the board shall be decided by a majority vote and a majority shall constitute a quorum.
09:47:01 So you need 3. Right, so if only 3 are there, then it would be easy. But you had all 4 there.
09:47:08 Hi, Margaret.
09:47:08 Hi, what a predicament. I mean 2 great people. Then I want both of them on.
09:47:11 Hmm. So do we. What do you think? I mean, how in your, a deliberation process.
09:47:20 Do you usually work on it until you come to a consensus or do you have a lot of 2 one votes.
09:47:29 2 one votes are pretty rare. And generally we would work through it. One of the advantages is it's fact-based and it's looking at sales data.
09:47:43 And how we would interpret that or looking at whether it's a like property.
09:47:50 So I would be willing to go ahead with both as members, because they both bring such valuable parts to the discussion.
09:48:02 And, And then should we end up in a situation will just have to work through it as we see it.
09:48:09 Alright.
09:48:08 Okay, thank you, Margaret. I'm happy to make a motion to appoint both Ms. Blanchard and Mr. Lanyard to the Board of Equalization.
09:48:18 I am happy to second that. All right, it's been moved and seconded to appoint both applicants to the Board of Equalization.
09:48:24 Any further questions or comments? First meeting at 1230. All right. If you need to open for public comment.
09:48:29 Thank you very much. Yeah.
09:48:30 Oh sure. We can open for public comment before we vote if anyone has any public comments. Alright, I'm not gonna give you too much time.
09:48:40 All in favor indicate by saying hi. Aye. Oh, sorry. All right.
09:48:57 Bring Mr. Cheer shower. Hi. I am too. Hi.
09:48:59 Oh, oh, oh, sorry. All right. Bring Mr. Cheer shower. Oh, okay. And, G, Daniel raised it.
09:49:01 Okay. Alright.
09:49:04 Go ahead, we'd love to hear your thoughts on on this particular topic.
09:49:07 Sorry, had to jump in at just the last second there. The comment was made, I believe by Carolyn that.
09:49:14 Decisions are made in closed session and then are announced later on. No, that doesn't happen.
09:49:20 You cannot make votes in any closed session. As far as I know, Open Public Meetings Act. Thank you.
09:49:25 Thank you for the reminder.
09:49:24 Yep, thank you for the reminder. An artful turn of phrase, I think, is all that was.
09:49:31 Okay, now I'll call the question all in favor. I. Aye. All right.
09:49:37 We'll see you guys back here at 1230. Thanks. Thanks Margaret, great to see you.
09:49:40 Good to see you.
09:49:41 And do we have our health officer? Alright, bring over and is Willie with us today. Alright, sorry, we're, gonna handle consent agenda or are you gonna wait?
09:49:54 Does that mean? Doctor Barry. Hello. Sorry to keep you waiting.
09:50:03 No worries.
09:50:03 We're just doing, you know, board stuff on the radio maybe. I'm not sure.
09:50:07 But how we doing on respiratory diseases and general health of the county.
09:50:14 Well, thank you all for your flexibility in having me on today instead of last week. I ended up being invited to a governor's panel on fentanyl and managing opioid overdoses
throughout the state, which end up being very fruitful.
09:50:29 So that meant that we had to move this to the next week. So thanks everyone for rolling with that change.
09:50:33 Overall, on the respiratory front, we are doing relatively well locally. At the state level, we are starting to see a significant rise in flu and RSV cases.
09:50:44 Though interestingly, we are not seeing that as strongly here in clown or Jefferson County. We're not entirely sure why that is.
09:50:54 It could be that it just hasn't quite gotten here yet or the other possible explanation could be that actually we have between our 2 counties the highest vaccination rates against
flu.
09:51:04 In the state and so that could also be slowing the amount of flu that we're seeing here and certainly the amount of severe disease.
09:51:14 At this point, especially with things like flu and RSV, we don't count individual cases.
09:51:18 We just count emergency department presentations and hospitalizations and we're just not seeing a surge in those here, but we are seeing it in our parts of the state, which
means flu is very much here and it's causing a lot of havoc in other parts of the state, but thankfully not here yet as far as the amount of damage we're seeing.
09:51:36 The biggest thing we can all do to protect ourselves and our neighbors from severe cases of blue is to get vaccinated and to avoid being in congregate spaces so shared in north
spaces when we're sick and to mask up when we're in crowded indoor spaces.
09:51:54 On the Kovat front we continue to see We continue to see severe cases, hospitalizations, deaths, and emergency department visits down trending at the state level and here as
well.
09:52:07 We've had a total of 2 hospitalizations. For COVID-19 in the last week.
09:52:12 And we've been seeing about once 2 hospitalizations per week over the last month. So all in all, seeing a lot less activity for Kovat, 19, but it is still with us and it still
can be severe.
09:52:23 When we look at the people who are getting hospitalized for COVID-19 by and large, these are folks who are older, so people in their sixtys to eightys who generally have underlying
conditions and who are most commonly not up to date on their vaccine.
09:52:36 So staying up to date is really critical to protect all of us from severe disease from COVID-19.
09:52:41 We thankfully do not have any new deaths due to COVID-19 to announce. So total of 43 deaths at this point.
09:52:49 We did get a KPTC listener question about those deaths from COVID-19. And what we're seeing is a bit of a mix.
09:52:57 We are seeing some folks who are having frank respiratory depression that are needing to go on ventilators like we used to see in the beginning of the pandemic.
09:53:06 And we're also seeing folks who were already quite ill and this COVID-19 is the thing that kind of pushes them over the edge and unfortunately causes them to get hospitalized
and even die.
09:53:15 But we have seen some folks who have ended up on ventilators. But it is very different than what we saw earlier in the pandemic.
09:53:21 I think one of the things that spread so much terror in the beginning of the pandemic was that you really couldn't tell who was gonna get severely own.
09:53:31 We had young people, we had random people. You know, some people would just get a cold and some people would end up on a ventilator and they would die.
09:53:39 That's not what we're seeing now. Generally we have we have very good protection in the community for those who are up to date on their vaccine.
09:53:47 So the best thing we can all do is stay up to date. We have a lot of accumulated population immunity.
09:53:51 So the probability of severe disease in any of us is much lower than it was. But there are still individuals in our community who are high risk who can't get adequate protection
from their vaccine.
09:54:01 That's folks who are immunosuppressed, folks who are getting immunosuppressed through treatment for other diseases like cancer and those who are very elderly and can't respond
to their vaccine.
09:54:12 So it's important to continue to consider those folks in our community and be thoughtful to reduce their risk.
09:54:16 Because this virus is still very serious for them. And it can still be very serious for those who cannot get a vaccine.
09:54:24 Either due to a medical condition or because they're very young. So thinking of the newborn children in our, in our community, they're high risk to kovat. 19 too.
09:54:34 So, but it is very different situation than in the beginning of the pandemic. We are not looking at the likelihood of COVID.
09:54:39 19 overwhelming our hospitals or shutting down government functions. We have a lot of tools to protect ourselves.
09:54:44 And the biggest one is staying up to date on our vaccines. And that is my main overall update today and I did see we had some KPTZ listener questions, but do we have any questions
from our commissioners as well?
09:55:05 Yeah.
09:55:11 Hmm.
09:54:57 Can I follow up a little bit on your discussion of how kind of the mortality pathway for lack of a way as has changed and I'm wondering how much you put on us knowing what to
do and the efficacy of the vaccines and it's great that we're, you know, seeing low flu numbers here, you know, but, Regarding COVID, how much of that do you attribute
09:55:21 to the evolution of the variations that we're encountering with? The evolution of the variations that we're encountering with?
09:55:25 Where are they evolving to be more like the cold because that's what's going to stick around?
09:55:28 You know, not entirely. So there was a good a good study actually done it of Washington State Department health in the University of Washington comparing the mortality related
to the virus.
09:55:42 Depend with and excluding vaccination or prior immunity. And what they found was the current Omicron strains are roughly as severe, just virus to virus to what we saw in the
beginning of the pandemic.
09:55:55 But what has changed is the amount of immunity we all have. So most of us have had multiple vaccines at this point.
09:56:03 And most of us have had COVID at this point. And so because of that, this, our immune systems are primed.
09:56:10 They're better able to fight this virus. The thing that made COVID so dangerous in the beginning was that it was something that none of us had ever seen.
09:56:17 We had no immunity to it. And we had no treatments available. We had no vaccines and we didn't have good medicine that worked.
09:56:24 We didn't know how to treat this thing. Now we do. We have we have protocols for how to keep people in the hospital.
09:56:31 And we do have protocols for how to keep people in the hospital. And we do have excellent vaccines available.
09:56:36 We've got packs low, but now all those things we didn't have in March of 2,020.
09:56:40 And so most of what has changed is that we have some immunity. And we have much better ways of treating it than we did before.
09:56:46 No worries, good question.
09:56:56 Okay.
09:56:46 Great. Thanks. I have a couple of folks have reached out to me and said and have asked. What's the current protocol if Either I have COVID in terms of getting back into the
public or if if there's COVID in my house and I'm testing negative and so I went back to my flowchart and I was just like, I'm not sure if this is our current flowchart.
09:57:09 Okay.
09:57:09 And so I'm just wondering what the current recommendations are just just to refresh our. Collective knowledge.
09:57:14 Yeah, absolutely. And acknowledging that that has changed over the course of the pandemic too and it's hard, especially if the last time you were worrying about COVID was 2
years ago, it the response is different.
09:57:26 So at this point we don't really quarantine anyone. We don't keep people home because someone in their household has COVID.
09:57:33 If so first of all, you have COVID, we want you to stay home until you're feeling better.
09:57:39 A minimum of 5 days if you're feeling better after day 5 you can come out rejoin society but you do have to wear a mask until day 10.
09:57:46 We do see people shedding virus until after day 5 and you don't want to expose other people in the community.
09:57:52 But generally it's 5 days home as long as you're feeling better and you wear a mask for the next 5 days.
09:57:58 There are some individuals in our community who are working in very high risk settings like healthcare or jails and there's more stringent protocols for those spaces and your
employers should have access to those and if they have any questions they can contact us.
09:58:10 At the health department. But we're a little more stringent if you're working with very high risk populations.
09:58:16 But everybody else 5 days, mast till day 10, as long as you're feeling better. If someone in your household has COVID, if you're still feeling well and you're testing negative.
09:58:26 You can go about your day, but we do recommend that you mask for at least 10 days after your last known exposure, which means say very common situation for a lot of us, you
have a toddler who got COVID in one of their congregates.
09:58:40 That means that you're going to mask until that kid feels better and until 10 days after that. That's a lot of masking, but you can still be in the world as long as you're feeling
well.
09:58:49 If you develop any symptoms of COVID-19 and you've got someone in your house who has COVID-19 very likely that is kovat 19 we still recommend you test but treat it like it's
COVID and stay home to the extent that you can.
09:59:02 Certainly mask if you can't. But remember to test more than once. Often people test negative in the beginning of their course because it's actually those symptoms you're feeling
are actually your immune system, not the virus yet, but in the next couple days you should test positive.
09:59:16 So quick summary. For those listening at home, stay home for 5 to 10 days if you if you have COVID mask at least until they 10.
09:59:31 If your family has COVID, you can go out and about in your day as long as you feel well.
09:59:32 If you feel sick, consider that you have kovat mask until 10 days after everybody's feeling better.
09:59:35 Any questions about it? Yeah.
09:59:35 And the, updated. The updated. Fact sheets are on the public health website.
09:59:42 Thank you.
09:59:42 Okay. I just have the old fax. Fact sheet hanging in my office. I was like, Yeah.
09:59:46 That is a common challenges. We, and we don't know. But yeah, everything to date on the website as far as COVID.
09:59:54 We did have a brief gap in public information folks and so there people might have noticed that our website got a little out of date for a couple days but it should be back
up today now.
10:00:10 Yeah.
10:00:04 And then another comment I've heard and is. That RSV is no joke. That this is this is worse, semi bar were saying where it was worse than COVID.
10:00:16 Yeah, it.
10:00:16 So, you know, it's, I just don't want people to feel like, you know, COVID was the big bad monster in the room and all these other things are just kind of like a sniffle.
10:00:26 So.
10:00:26 Yeah, Lou and RSV kill individuals in our region every year. Particularly high risk individuals.
10:00:34 So folks were high risk of RSP and flu are the the ends of the age spectrum. So the very young and the very old.
10:00:41 All right, high risk. And those who are immunosuppressed or at high risk of all 3.
10:00:45 So we can still see severe disease from all of those. We thankfully have good vaccines.
10:00:51 For the flu and COVID for pretty much everybody, if you're 6 months enough. For RSB, the vaccine is approved for everybody 60 and up and all pregnant folks and for for little
tiny being so new new babies born who are less than 18 months of age that particular vaccine for the little ones has been in short supply but we do have some actually at the health
department so you can give us a call.
10:01:16 Jefferson Health Care has been working hard to get access to some from the state, but there's been such a short supply that that was delayed.
10:01:23 So we don't know if they've gotten theirs in yet, but they should be getting some soon for the littlest.
10:01:27 Everybody else should have access to those vaccines. The challenge for those 60 and up is that the feds did decide to cover it under Medicare Part B and not part B, which means
if you don't have Medicare Part D coverage, the expense can be significant.
10:01:41 Can be up to $200 for some folks. And so if that's not accessible to you, totally understand, but the biggest thing you can do is to make sure that you are masking up in those
crowded indoor settings to protect yourself from RSV.
10:01:56 And if you have any newborn babies in your life, make sure you are well. If you visit that child and consider masking if you're outside their household as well.
10:02:05 Any other questions from our commissioners?
10:02:05 Any other question? Alright, thank you. Let's go. There's some good questions in the from the KPC listeners as well.
10:02:13 Absolutely.
10:02:13 And I don't think we have Will events, so you've got you've got, you know, 28Â min still.
10:02:17 Oh great. So when I look at the questions from KPTZ, one question was, will we ever be able to get the Pfizer vaccine again?
10:02:29 This particular person prefers the Pfizer vaccine for most of us, Pfizer or Moderna are equal as far as their coverage.
10:02:36 We do see a little more side effects with Maderna generally, so that might be why this person prefers Pfizer.
10:02:42 Generally we think at the one that's available, but if you really have a strong vaccine preference, the way to find the vaccine that you want is to go to vaccine locator dot.gov
that still exists and if you type in your area code or your zip code.
10:02:56 It'll show you where to find the vaccine and the type that each individual pharmacy has. I looked it up this morning for Port Townsend and the QFC import had luck and squim
are your nearest places to get the Pfizer vaccine.
10:03:12 That's what you're hoping for. The Pfizer vaccine. That's what you're hoping for.
10:03:15 The QFCs tend to carry it. But yeah, each individual private entity is choosing which vaccine they want to get at this point.
10:03:19 And that's that can make it a little more challenging. So using those vaccine locators can be really helpful.
10:03:24 There's also a vaccine locator for the RSV vaccine as well. We have heard from some from some folks in our community who are having trouble figure tracking it down, particularly
pregnant folks who need to have a particular type.
10:03:36 So there's a vaccine locator. If you just take type vaccine locator RSV into your search engine, you'll be able to find it.
10:03:45 And the one that you're looking for if you're pregnant is called a Bristol with a why.
10:03:49 If you look for that one, you'll be able to track it down at some of our local pharmacies as well.
10:03:54 Couple other good questions. One said when it comes to the risk of catching kovat, what holiday activities are safer this year than they were last year and which are not safe.
10:04:04 Great question. A lot of things are safer this year than they were last year because of that rise in population.
10:04:12 So we are in a safer place than we were last year and the year before and the year before and the year before that.
10:04:16 But some things still carry significant risk if you are someone who's at high risk of COVID-19.
10:04:23 You are someone in your household. And the biggest one is those large indoor unmasked gatherings, which is what a lot of us do.
10:04:29 We just did a lot of that for Thanksgiving. We are likely to do a lot of that for some of our winter holidays that are going on now and coming up soon.
10:04:38 The biggest thing to do to make those gatherings as safe as possible. Is to consider the risks of the people in the room.
10:04:45 So in my family, we have a family member who has a significant heart condition. That means that we don't mess around with bringing illness to a table that he's at.
10:04:53 So we don't bring sick kids, we don't bring sick adults, we make sure everyone's well.
10:04:58 You can consider adding testing before the the meetup if you've got someone who's particularly high risk and you want to take off masks and eat together.
10:05:07 That's the way to make sure that you're as safe as possible and think about how large that guest list is when you have someone who's very high risk.
10:05:14 Everything outside is totally fine. If you want to go ice skating, if you want to go for a hike, if you want to go caroling or anything that you can do outside, totally fine.
10:05:24 Thank you.
10:05:23 Those are all safe activities. Another big thing that a lot of us do even more in the holiday season is go to church.
10:05:30 So church can be a particularly high risk space because often you've got hundreds of people in a crowded indoor space and the windows are closed because it's cold.
10:05:39 Things that you can do to make that safer is to wear a high quality mask. So you can go to church as much as you want if you're high risk as long as you have a high quality
mask on, taking it off briefly to take communion or things like that is totally fine.
10:05:53 Just put it back on. And as long as you're covered for the majority of that that service, you're gonna do just fine.
10:06:01 Individual buildings can do what they can to reduce risk for their congregations by having. Air filters by opening windows, things like that, and encouraging everyone to stay
home if they're feeling ill.
10:06:11 That is something that really makes a much bigger difference now than it did before. In the beginning of COVID, most COVID was transmitted before people knew that they had symptoms.
10:06:21 Because we now have so much accumulated population immunity, we actually don't see as much precymptomatic transmission.
10:06:29 We don't spread COVID much before we get sick anymore. And that makes it a lot more possible to reduce our spread by staying home if we're feeling it all ill.
10:06:38 We talked a little bit about, the deaths related to COVID-19. One other question was whether or not people are dying at Jefferson health care or being transported.
10:06:50 We lost you. You went mute. Oh, looks like we might have lost her entirely. Let's see.
10:06:58 She's still on my screen. Nope. And that muted. Yeah, you don't look muted, Dr.
10:07:04 Barry, but we lost all audio and you're not even muted, Dr. Barry, but we lost all audio and you're not even picking up on the zoom window.
10:07:09 So you disappeared from our main. She's turned off her camera, but he's still there.
10:07:14 You can hear us. She can. I don't know. We're dealing dead air on the radio now.
10:07:22 Phillip, well, we hope to get Dr. Bray back. I just little little vignette.
10:07:39 Oh, we hope to get back to break back. I just little, vignette. It's been waiting for the chance.
10:07:42 All right, take it away. Kate. She did not. Good. Hey, you think it's relevant.
10:07:53 I was, I went to a meeting couple of months And I should have gotten up and left, you know, whatever.
10:07:55 I didn't, but you know, that resulted in my husband who has 0 immune system having been sick now for 8 weeks.
10:08:01 Can't kick it and it's just so frustrating. It's like it's just easy stay home wear a mask sit at the back of the room. It's like, it's just easy.
10:08:10 Stay home, wear a mask, sit at the back of the room, something. So it's very real.
10:08:12 And for those who are immuno compromised, it's not getting a cold or getting COVID.
10:08:13 It is weeks of illness. We're just covering Floyd. Yeah, we can hear you now.
10:08:21 Okay.
10:08:17 Hi, any chance? Okay, great. I just left the webinar and came back. I'm not quite sure what happened, but sorry about that everyone.
10:08:28 So thank you. Also I heard a little bit of what you were talking about, Commissioner Dean.
10:08:33 And I think it's really important to you. Many of us will just get a cold if we get COVID but there are some folks who will die if they get COVID or RSV or the flu and so being
thoughtful about that we all I think don't want to miss out on stuff we don't want to miss out on holidays we don't want to miss work, but to the extent that you can staying home if
you're
10:08:51 sick makes a huge difference. And masking up if you're at all, not sure. So just a couple other quick questions.
10:08:59 One person asked if those who have died from COVID are transferred out of the hospital or if they're dying here at Jefferson Health Care and it really depends a lot on the person.
10:09:12 The biggest thing that determines whether someone gets transferred out now is not hospital capacity, but the services that we offer.
10:09:23 So people who need. Things like dialysis or higher levels of cardiac care, they end up getting transferred out and thankfully we're not at the point we were at in the beginning
of the pandemic we can get folks to the care that they need.
10:09:31 It's tight right now because the health care system is strained generally. We're short on staff.
10:09:39 People are tired.
10:09:43 And so taking the surges that we took for the last 3 years is less possible. But so far we're still able to get our people where they need to go.
10:09:49 Another great question, is that this person was asking, they said they'd heard that.
10:09:54 Kovan, 19 can attack multiple organ systems. Is that true? And the end
10:10:03 Yes. So one thing we learned over the course of the last 3 years is that kovat 19 isn't just a long disease.
10:10:08 It's a whole body disease. And it can affect your nervous.
10:10:22 Can affect your guts and it can affect the whole rest of your body. And that part of that is what we think is driving long COVID is diffuse body inflammation inflammation of
the nervous system that is persistent in some folks longer than we would have expected.
10:10:30 So it does affect your whole body. They asked if who
10:10:38 Multiple experiences.
10:10:43 Above it increases your risk of long COVID. And the answer is yes, though it's just because you keep your if you didn't get long COVID the first time you can get it the next
time so if you keep getting COVID it's an additive effect but we haven't seen that it's a dramatic rise in risk with each additional case but if you keep getting COVID
10:10:57 Okay.
10:11:01 There is always the possibility of one COVID down the road. Your risk of long COVID is significantly reduced if you're up to date on your vaccines. So that's the biggest thing
we all can do to reduce our risk.
10:11:08 But yeah, COVID's not worth messing with. It's worth avoiding if you can because long COVID is very real and we are still seeing people get long COVID in our community.
10:11:20 With.
10:11:21 Nice in cases they're getting right now and it's no fun. It's worth avoiding if you can.
10:11:24 Couple other quick questions. This person unfortunately got COVID recently and it looks like right very shortly after they got their booster which means it may not have had
time to fully get
10:11:38 Okay.
10:11:45 In to protect them. And so they wanted to know whether or not they're protected from COVID for a period of time afterwards.
10:11:49 And the answer is yes. You are protected from getting COVID again for about 90 days. After
10:12:00 Your last.
10:12:06 19 infection. So you are unfortunately you've got COVID but you are well prepared.
10:12:15 Test against COVID for the rest of the holiday season. And so you can take that into account when you're planning for your risk.
10:12:29 You are still at risk of flu and RSP though. So plan accordingly those are still not fun and are worth avoiding if you can.
10:12:32 Can I also say that Barry, you know, when COVID shows up as a cold, that's you know, probably off the the vaccine is contributing to the mildness of the impact.
10:12:43 Absolutely. Yeah, good point. So the thing that makes a difference that keeps many of us out of hospital hospital is having had our vaccine and can make it more like a cold,
which is way better than it used to be back in the day.
10:13:01 Then this last question is not respiratory virus related. It's about Empox. And this person brought up that they recently heard.
10:13:07 About an upsurge.
10:13:12 And Empox infections in Africa. And that's true. There has been a rise in M.
10:13:16 H. Cases in in the Democratic Republic of Congo. That may well be related to some of the
10:13:33 Going on right now. You see a lot of people moving and deep and breakdowns and access to health care.
10:13:38 We tend to see a rise in all kinds of infections. Mp's hit the news in the last couple of years because it started to spread globally, but it's been endemic.
10:13:43 It has existed in West Africa for a long time, but many of us just didn't know about it because it didn't affect us, but it's been existing and transmitting in the DRC for
10:13:50 Virus, or any particular spike in risk for the rest of us. But it does speak to the challenges related to disruption So that I'll just say I wouldn't have, a heightened concern
about M.
10:13:54 Box or the rise of a new variant that's going to hit the world, but it does remind us that very serious illnesses affect many parts of the world and it's worth taking care of
them and taking care of the people that live there, both because it's the right thing to do and because it reduces the risk of them subsequently spreading to the rest of the the, they
did ask about
10:14:03 who's most at risk. So there's, there's 2 different what's called clades of impulse.
10:14:08 There's the one in the DRC that's pretty much just there and and isn't spreading to the rest of the world and then there's the one that we get.
10:14:13 The one in the DRC is unfortunately much more severe than what we've got out here. Mpx out here is less severe, but can still be quite severe, but can still be quite severe
if you ask anyone who's had it.
10:14:26 It can still be quite severe if you ask anyone who's had it. It's incredibly painful and it's in the United States has been spread primarily through sexual activity, close skin
to skin contact.
10:14:31 That's the big thing that's been spreading impulse infection. It leads to a very painful rash that is quite distinctive.
10:14:38 We do have an excellent vaccine for M. But the uptake has not been enough to prevent it from coming back.
10:14:46 We've not seen a significant surge in impact this year, but there is still activity in Washington. We had a small spike in October and Washington states was still there.
10:14:56 We do still carry the vaccine and if you are eligible you're more than welcome to come get it at the Department of Health.
10:15:03 Empox has been disproportionately affecting the LGBTQ community, but it can affect anyone.
10:15:09 So anyone who has multiple sexual partners who engages in sex work, or, is particularly at risk is eligible for that vaccine and can come get it from us.
10:15:20 And you don't have to have a long history. Just tell us you want to get the impacts vaccine and we will get it for you.
10:15:27 Any other questions from our commissioners?
10:15:27 Right. When did it go from MPV to Impox? I, the names.
10:15:32 Oh yeah. Yes. So the CDC has been was a little slow at changing the name from from monkey pox and so Washington State Department of Health switched it to MPV and then the CDC
finally got around and they decided on the name and.
10:15:52 All right, that's good to know.
10:15:49 So we took that one too so that we would be the same. No, but is the virus formerly known as Monkey Pox, now called Empox.
10:15:59 Okay, any other follow up questions for Dr. Barry? That's all we had one question for Willie Bince about the warming shelters and what's the county's plan for warming shelters
this winter.
10:16:11 We don't have, Mr. Benz with us today. We'll bring him back next, maybe before the end of the year.
10:16:17 And go over that unless anyone, I mean, I know the libraries are set up and does anyone have any?
10:16:21 I don't know. That's why I don't know about Olycap and the community centers or any of that.
10:16:27 Oh. If, Who's there from? Oh, John, I don't know if you're here to speak to DM's update, but if you are, please raise your hand and we'll bring it over.
10:16:44 Yeah, because Julia's warming shelter is. Oh sure, we can bring we can bring Julia over so she can report on what she knows.
10:16:50 Good afternoon every day. I think so. Yeah.
10:16:57 Hello, Julia. We had a question from the public and or without. Willie bends today, but do you have some information about?
10:17:04 What what the plans are for the current for the warming shelters for the county.
10:17:09 Well, they called me. Skippy, called me. I can't remember when was probably Friday, right.
10:17:17 And ask me what Our plans were to be a warming center if the weather gets really cold and we do extended stay.
10:17:26 So we're open every day, 7 days a week at the Pope Marine building, 8 30 to 1230.
10:17:32 This is the winter welcoming center. And that we will be open till 4 o'clock like we were the other day.
10:17:39 Because of rain and wind and stuff like that. If it's really in hospital out there, we stay open till 4 PM.
10:17:48 But they were saying that only Cap and said that they would not be operating in warming center this winter.
10:17:52 And we once, or twice set up to do overnight. It didn't happen because the American Legion was open.
10:18:02 And they opened his warming center, but they have cots and stuff. And if they feel that their staff cannot handle.
10:18:09 And emergency, our staff can and we can if we need to. And but we would need the equipment from the American Legion like their cots and stuff because they have these portable
cops they use before they renovated.
10:18:22 So that's my answer is that. Yes, we, when needed, we're always open till 4.
10:18:28 And if we're needed to do a bigger job than that because only Cap is saying they can't.
10:18:34 Then absolutely we will find a way because that's what's important to us.
10:18:38 Okay, thank you, Julia. I think, only Kappa has talked about closing the shelter during the day so they'd still be open for overnight, but we'll find out.
10:18:47 Well, no, not open to other people. When they're a warming center, the reason where were the winter welcoming center, not a warming center is warming center is a program that
they run that means that they open up their dining area and anybody wants to come in and sit down and be warm.
10:19:02 And if they're saying they can't do that overnight, that means that the people who aren't there cannot be there.
10:19:09 Gotcha. Okay, we'll get an update for next week. I think it's, it's timely.
10:19:16 It'd be nice to get more geographic. Coverage too. Yeah, totally. We have community centers adding around.
10:19:21 Yeah, we'll get, we'll get a good report. Good question. Okay, Dr.
10:19:24 Barry, thank you so much for the update and we will see you on January second. Is that right?
10:19:30 Tuesday, January second. Okay.
10:19:30 Me? Well, happy holidays, everyone. We'll see you in the new year.
10:19:35 Happy holidays and we'll turn it back over to KPTZ. It is now late enough you can play Christmas music for the next 10Â min.
10:19:41 Okay.
10:19:42 I really object to it before December but it's over there. We're in the season now.
10:19:45 Okay.
10:19:46 I don't think we can have jurisdiction over that, Greg. We don't have jurisdiction. When they come to like business music.
10:19:50 Well, I can, when it's played in my car, I have jurisdiction over there. Yes.
10:19:56 Okay, we have 10Â min until our 1030 meeting that might go to the end so we have 10Â min until our 1030 meeting that might go to the end so we have 10Â min until our 1030 meeting
that might go to the end so we have still consent of the till lunchtime I should say.
10:20:03 We still have consent agenda. Do folks, want to go over consent agenda or take a brief break?
10:20:10 Alright, so we were going to pull number one about the fee schedule for the County Fire Marshal.
10:20:21 Mostly, I mean, are we all aligned that this is something we really, any fee changes?
10:20:26 We kind of our understanding is that it's still an open open session conversation even though it's not a hearing and that coordinates based so it's like that one as well.
10:20:38 Okay, so we'll reschedule that. I think we also have the application we have like I think Joe.
10:20:44 It was already on here. No. Oh no, that was a different, that's civil service commission.
10:20:50 Okay, any other questions or comments about the consent agenda. There's 2 items for the.
10:20:56 Conservation futures that were not available on the Agenda has downloads, the PDFs weren't working.
10:21:05 They were struggling to upload, but they can be clicked on the if click on the related documents.
10:21:11 It's at the top of the meeting and agenda. Then you can get to them. So I did have a chance to review them when I was at home.
10:21:23 Yeah, I got into. I was just gonna add that the on item 4, the membership of the MRC, that's an addition of a Youth seat to the MRC.
10:21:33 So that was. The reason for bringing that to the agenda. I was curious what the change was. Bring in the use. I don't remember.
10:21:47 A lot of kids, the roboticics or whatever they're called. You remember a lot of kids, roboticics or whatever they're called.
10:21:51 Yeah. And then. On the conservation features I read through that too and I think one of the main impetuses of this is having more time for the committee to review projects and
getting them to them earlier so they have more time to review projects before they have to.
10:22:08 Recommend funding or not. A number 9, you know, that's the site we've heard from.
10:22:16 Neighbors about the. The, rain shadow road radio tower site, but I read the.
10:22:24 Justification for that and it seems like it's kind of an emergent need for them to.
10:22:28 Have that be an option. So. And then I also liked item 11. This is adding Social support services to code compliance.
10:22:40 Which I think is innovative and then a great path forward because you know we a lot of the cases that code compliance deals with are Folks that have issues and I interestingly
also was reached out to last week by a local resident who's involved with helping people.
10:22:57 Deal with their estates when they pass and She's interested in setting up a hoarding task force, which other communities have done.
10:23:04 So we're looking into that. Nice. But that's kind of around this whole social.
10:23:09 The social network around code compliance and, you know, hoarding and all these issues that. So those were my.
10:23:20 Yeah, I remember when Stewart was still at environmental health saying that he felt like he would be better qualified as a social worker in that role.
10:23:32 But that was what was really needed. It was still environmental health saying that he felt like he would be better qualified as a social worker in that role. But that was what
was really needed.
10:23:39 Another great place for, yeah, I spent the weekend making new chat bots. I made an elder companion one that helps you with tech and listens to your stories.
10:23:44 Love it. Yeah, you put it like a housing case manager. You put it on the library computers.
10:23:52 So they help you get connected you put it on the library computers so they help you get connected to you know you just talk to it on the library computers so they help you get
connected to you know you talk to it and it helps you get services.
10:23:57 Yeah, case management by AI as my edge one of my. Wow, this is right now. Anyways, any other.
10:24:04 Things people I'm happy to see the housing fund board additional RFP for that unallocated 194,000 out there.
10:24:15 Yes thanks to Caroline who you know we have still AV is not working but we've been pushing her to the limit with other stuff.
10:24:26 So. Yes, thanks to Caroline who, you know, we have still AV is not working, but we've been pushing her to the limit with other stuff.
10:24:32 So. So I'm happy to move that we approve the consent agenda for December, eleventh, 2023 minus item number one.
10:24:39 Adopting a fee schedule for the office of the County Fire Marshal with the Department of Community Development.
10:24:44 A second. Okay. It's been moved and seconded to move adopt and approve and adopt the consent agenda minus item number one all in favor indicate by saying I.
10:24:55 Hi. We can talk about Josh with Josh about when we can get Phil out here to talk about fire marshal fees.
10:25:02 I think we just. I don't know if you were pray to the whole conversation, but. Okay, well we got 3 else important to talk about this morning, do we?
10:25:10 Yeah, I think we've done for the day. We'll take we'll take a 5Â min recess, get reset, let Josh come up to the table and we'll hear a presentation and and talk about whether
it's to have a hearing for the SNP update.
10:29:48 It's been up. Yeah, go for it.
10:29:54 Hey much ice skating? Never enough.
10:30:01 If I was graceful on the ice, maybe. It's like something for sure. It's like golfing for me. But I'm still walking.
10:30:12 It's a beautiful walk spoil because I got these blades on my feet. Alright, it is 1030.
10:30:15 Let's start recording. Oh, it is recording. Great. Okay, I will call us back into session and we will turn our attention to Josh Peters.
10:30:25 Maybe you can outline, you know, this potential action. I know we will have a public comment period before we take any action, but tell us, tell us why we're here, Josh.
10:30:32 Okay, well that is. A big picture question. Not sure I can hear you. No, I want I want to pull that. Why are we here until noon?
10:30:43 I got a like galaxic, or okay, so Good. We are here, Josh Peters, Community Development Director for Jefferson County.
10:30:50 We're here today to have a briefing. On the shoreline master program periodic review process, which started.
10:30:58 Back in 2020. And got us all the way here. So we have our consultants with us today, Lisa.
10:31:05 Greeder and Amy Ssumi from Burke Consultant in Burke Consulting and Shannon and Wilson respectively and they'll I'm gonna turn it over to them in a moment for a presentation.
10:31:16 To just basically talk about how we got to where where we are today. And we also have. Richard from the the chair of the planning commission and he's a graciously offered to
be here today to make a short statement about the Planning Commission perspective and how we got to the decision that.
10:31:34 The Planning Commission reached the recommendation. And then any questions and answers really at any time, but there we we can certainly ask if answer questions after we're
finished with our presentations.
10:31:44 And then what we were anticipating would be a motion from a member of the board about whether to hold a public hearing or not or.
10:31:52 Except essentially either hold a public hearing and we've already kind of done some advanced planning about when that might be based on the holiday schedule and so forth.
10:31:58 Or whether you want to accept the planning commission recommendation in which case we would start just packaging the information to send off to ecology.
10:32:05 Either way, the consultants and I have to collaborate on making that submittal for ecology just depending on what the final decision is by the board on what what to adopt locally.
10:32:16 And then that final decision. Will be from department of ecology on whether they accept essentially whatever Jefferson County decides.
10:32:24 That's just the way. That the co-management works under the shoreline management. We can get into that a little bit more during the presentation.
10:32:29 So. You can see we have Lisa and Amy. And I'll just turn it right over to Lisa.
10:32:34 Good to see you guys again.
10:32:36 Nice to see you.
10:32:43 Hopefully you can see. Slides.
10:32:46 It's not in present out there you go. Yep, perfect.
10:32:49 Great. I will be reinforcing some of Josh's points, but here what we're sharing is the original purpose of the periodic update.
10:33:02 Was to review amendments needed. Since the county adopted the shoreline master program in 2014 to meet new laws or rules.
10:33:13 And identify any changing circumstances that should result in potential changes. And then per the board's direction to a dress regulatory reform.
10:33:26 While still achieving no net loss of ecological function. And recognize the county's resources in doing the those changes.
10:33:40 The staff report lays out the primary components of the effort. First is the revised shoreline master program with the planning commission recommendations.
10:33:51 As part of the record when we send to ecology there needs to be an addendum to the cumulative impacts analysis and we've linked to that in that staff report.
10:34:02 Likewise, an updated periodic checklist that ecology wants to see. There's been state environmental policy act review.
10:34:11 And then the, in submitting to ecology and also for your. Review, taking a look at the hearing comments and responses and other correspondence to the Planning Commission.
10:34:26 This is a rough timeline. The board convened a shoreline master program task force in 2020 and they provided recommendations at the end of that year to the Planning Commission.
10:34:40 In terms of key issues, those changing local circumstances in particular. Planning Commission took up the shoreline master program and came up with a draft that was submitted
to ecology for an initial review in October, 2021.
10:34:55 Due to the staff resources, ecology took about a year to respond. At the end of September, 2022 and the county was able through Josh's efforts and others to secure some grants.
10:35:11 That allowed some additional work to happen. That led to, preparing some responses to a colleges, initial review and sharing that with the public and the planning commission
in June.
10:35:27 And then the planning commission again took up. Potential revisions from July to November. And now it's back to the board.
10:35:37 As of December. And we'll go over some of the schedule options that Josh mentioned.
10:35:45 Sure. Yes.
10:35:44 But ask a question on that Lisa before you move outside. Just, you know, it's a long strange trip that this SNP has been on for sure.
10:35:51 Yeah. Yes.
10:35:53 One of the the gaps that I noticed as we are going through sure. One of the gaps that I noticed as we are going through this that was pretty frustrating to me was that You know,
I was part of the task force originally and then.
10:36:02 After the planning commission, there was no, there was no communication. That's maybe I'm looking at Josh, but no communication with the board or anything about the where it
was like this is the first time this is this product has come in any form in front of the Board of County Commissioners.
10:36:20 I guess I'm wondering if that standard, if there's a better way we can do it so we don't end up with, at the ninth hour saying, oh, well, maybe we want to do this instead.
10:36:29 It just seems like a long time without any input at all.
10:36:33 Well, I guess I'll give a quick response and then Lisa actually was there for that time.
10:36:40 So maybe she could fill in the the memory gap here. As you know, I wasn't, I wasn't involved.
10:36:43 I rejoin the department in the summer of 2,022. So those decisions and actions took place in 2021.
10:36:49 It is normal. I guess you should say for a planning effort to go through a public process whether there's a task force involved as a preliminary step or not, then through the
Planning Commission the main avenue for this.
10:37:02 These conversations to occur and then that The results of that then to go to the board to do what. The board wants to do with that information.
10:37:09 So that is normal. You call it going to ecology before came. I don't have any specifics to say about that except for that I know that Jefferson County tried with aology to do
the an alternate review process where there was a public hearing held by both entities concurrently in a public comment period associated with that.
10:37:28 I know that that was attempted. It's an alternate process outlined in the whack. And there was some issue with that and the way that it turned out that came up in the, I don't
know, 1620 page memo that ecology gave us to accompany their long table of all their comments that took a year to make.
10:37:46 So. In regard to that, we decided that we were going to essentially do together with a college, decided we're going to go back to the standard process.
10:37:53 So whatever happens today after a public hearing, whatever action the board takes, ecology will have its own public comment period.
10:38:02 Associated with that before they make the decision. In terms of like the decision about a planning commission recommendation or preliminary recommendation going to ecology for
a comment.
10:38:11 I don't I don't have any comment about that because I wasn't here and I'm sorry that it happened that way it sounds like it was a surprise to you as a board member but I don't
know what happened there.
10:38:19 I might just be making a record rhetorical question. I don't know. Lisa, do you have any?
10:38:22 Any insight?
10:38:24 Maybe just one. Kind of idea in addition to what Josh said is that ecology's initial review is a soft review.
10:38:35 And, and there, There input may change what the county was going to do. So I think maybe at the time the staff providing the the initial recommendations was.
10:38:50 To kind of see where ecology was at. I do think like Josh mentioned, there was that different joint process and that was the step late out at that point.
10:39:02 Why there wasn't a briefing to the board to say here's what's happening that I can't speak to.
10:39:09 I'm glad we have that opportunity now. Okay.
10:39:12 Thanks. I'm trying to do great. I guess. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, like we don't formally have a role in the process until.
10:39:21 Now and We, I want to say you complicated it by doing the task force, which I supported and still do support.
10:39:29 But, you know, that, that. I think delayed extended the whole process and then of course a pandemic in this exact same timeframe.
10:39:41 It has been it is it feels like it's been a really long time without that update but I think we added there were some additional steps and from factors that contribute to that.
10:39:49 Thank you. Please continue, Lisa.
10:39:51 Thank you. We'll have more in terms of the process that, You may choose to take.
10:40:03 With your review, but we just wanted to say what happens when, when you do have your desired review, it goes then, as Josh mentioned, to the standard process where ecology will
have a formal review with a state comment period.
10:40:20 And then they can determine whether they want to accept the county proposal or require changes. When it goes through the ecology process.
10:40:31 Not only do they reach out to people who commented in the counties process, but they also have.
10:40:38 A duty to share with statewide interest groups. So there could be broader. Review, at the master program.
10:40:51 I'm gonna summarize some of the key issues that came up during the process of the periodic update and then Amy is going to share more on aquaculture and then we'll share a little
bit more on buffer modifications.
10:41:05 But basically the key issues that have come up, you know, came through ecologies required or recommended changes.
10:41:14 The task force and the public comments and the planning commission recommendations. That's the overall framework. Highlights of what we spent more time on include aquaculture.
10:41:25 Little bit on mooring buoys and arenas and in the end we made some tweaks there to match federal and state guidelines.
10:41:33 And then on the buffer modifications, will share more on that. In terms of the different pathways because one of the things for the county was a lot of conditional use permits
and other variances for single-family homes.
10:41:50 So we spent more time there to look at the process in terms of regulatory reform.
10:41:57 So, Amy, do you wanna go over some of the aquaculture history?
10:42:01 Sure. So as has been mentioned already, there was a task force process back in 2,020 and at that time changes were proposed to the aquaculture.
10:42:14 Regulations very focused on GUI Duck aquaculture to catch up to some changes in the whack that I think happened in 2011 maybe or 2,014.
10:42:26 Somewhere, somewhere back then. And those changes specifically were to have a line item where, aquaculture, requires a shoreline conditional use permit.
10:42:38 But then also adding some very specific application requirements and standards for GUI. Aquaculture that that came right out of the whack.
10:42:48 I think when the ecology updated the whack for aquaculture this new gooey deck section that they added more than doubled the length of the whack requirements.
10:42:58 And so it wasn't an insubstantial change that was being made. And then, we moved into the planning commission in 2,021 and at that point.
10:43:09 Started to receive a lot more interest and comments and testimony from landowners, and also from industry folks, on the aquaculture.
10:43:22 Revisions that were made. And particularly interest in requiring not just a discretionary conditional use permit, but a standard conditional use permit.
10:43:35 So that it for every new GUI. Aquaculture application, and hearing examiner would be required before it went to ecology for a colleges final review so that that was one of the
common comments and then the planning commission was looking kind of for guidance and seeing what other jurisdictions around the sound we're doing and focused on kids up County and
requested that we incorporate Kitsap County regulations that were
10:44:05 kind of specific to GUI DEC and aquaculture in general into Jefferson County's regulations.
10:44:12 And with that came not conversion to. Requiring a standard conditional use permit with a required hearing.
10:44:21 At that stage. And then in 2023 when we kinda came back after that interlude we were addressing ecology comments which included a few about GUI deck aquaculture and then just
sort of continue to receive and hear more information from.
10:44:41 Not only that some industry representatives, but also again property owners and the tribe also contributed some really helpful information.
10:44:53 Next slide I think. So I've touched on this already a little bit, but, the recent input kind of fell into a few buckets.
10:45:02 And the tribes and I think industry were kind of emphasizing that aquaculture is a water-dependent industry and in shoreline jurisdiction and shoreline management act water
dependent industries are kind of a preferred uses that really need to be accommodated.
10:45:21 Where appropriate, and consistent with no net loss. There was also a lot of interest in the submittal requirements, the particular application requirements, wanting to make
sure that unintentionally the requirements weren't.
10:45:39 More onerous on GUI duck than was required by the whack. And that we kind of figure out a way to separate out, you know, specifically which types of aquaculture required.
10:45:52 Which of the different application requirements and that's where some of that tribal input in particular was really helpful because they did kind of convert our expanded list
of application requirements into a table format that said exactly which requirements needed to be back by Finnish aquaculture, which by GUI D and which by kind of other shellfish.
10:46:14 And then kind of another sort of common line was, that aquaculture and.
10:46:22 Aquaculture is important for just food production, restoration projects, this is kind of tribe input.
10:46:29 And that are kind of involve a different aquaculture activities. And also I think economic kind of supports were also mentioned in a number of commenters in terms of jobs created
and that sort of thing.
10:46:44 The next slide.
10:46:48 Okay, so kind of trying to pull all of that together with property owners and industry and tribal folks having very different perspectives, are trying to kind of meet in the
middle and come up with a good common sense approach was to have a mix of both standard and discretionary CUPs for different classifications of aquaculture, GUI duck aquaculture, namely
sort of teasing up part new
10:47:16 GUI duck aquult culture from conversion of some other kind of aquaculture to GUI DEC and then expansions of existing GUI deck aquaculture.
10:47:27 And then also linking those different kinds of aquaculture and to adjacent environment designations.
10:47:35 Most specifically connecting it to natural environment designation. So there's a higher standard and a higher permit level review required if you're proposing GUI.
10:47:47 Aquaculture next to the natural shoreline environment. And then as I kind of alluded to already, part of our Trying to accommodate everyone as best we could was to to implement
the tribe suggested table of submittal requirements.
10:48:03 That distinguish those different type of aquaculture. And at the head of that, we added also a, some language stating that, you know, if something in this table that says, you
need to provide X simply does not make sense and is I think the term we used was demonstrably not a applicable to your application, then you don't need to provide it.
10:48:26 And if the county were to disagree and say, I think we really do need it and say, I think we really do need it and say, I think we really do need it and say I think we really
do need it and you know they could ask for it but it gives folks I think a little bit of flexibility in thinking about the scale and type of their particular proposal and how they approach
developing their application.
10:48:43 Package.
10:48:44 Let's see, I think. I think that might be. The sum of it.
10:48:52 The other category of things we thought we would share are again more looking at the trend of permits in the county some of the unclear use of different sections and ecologies
comments that some of the allowances for buffer reductions were overlapping and confusing.
10:49:14 So I walked through some of where we're at here. The standard buffer on the left hand side is used for conforming lots.
10:49:24 The buffer varies whether you're on a marine or river or a lake. There is a process for reducing or averaging buffers to.
10:49:35 Less than the standard. There's been a little bit of language change there to make sure it is more similar to how the buffer reduction or averaging happens with critical areas
ordinance.
10:49:50 Regulations. Non-conforming lot. If you have a non-conforming lot, which basically means you can't meet the lot depth that's associated with your buffer.
10:50:02 But you can follow a modest home provision. So we tried to clarify based on acology's feedback and different members of the community who were.
10:50:15 Interested in addressing single-family construction. More specifics on what is a non-conforming lot, what depth would you have to have in order for it to qualify as non-conforming?
10:50:30 And then we added some standards for making sure it was consistent with a modest home. Provision it or already allows for 2,500 square foot building area but some of the other
standards were not as clear.
10:50:45 We also put in more protections to satisfy comments we were getting from agencies and tribes. To ensure that if you are using this provision you're enhancing 80% of the shoreline
frontage.
10:50:59 And that you don't have geologic hazards that would interfere with your abilities. And then common line had been also for non-conforming lots.
10:51:13 It's meant to address views. In trying to respond to aology, we, are suggesting it'd be for conforming lots.
10:51:25 Whereas modest home would be for non-conforming lots. That the purpose is to accommodate shoreline views.
10:51:32 And then we've adjusted some of the standards to be more similar to ecology. Guidance.
10:51:36 And we tested those standards and we also made it more clear that you need to do the same kind of shoreline enhancement you would do for the modest home provision.
10:51:52 So this is just a diagram showing the modest home. With the idea that if you have a lot that's like on the right hand side that's less deep than the standard you can put the
home closer.
10:52:05 But you enhance the the frontage. And then common line. Make it clear it's about accommodating shoreline views and recognizing existing development patterns that you still need
to achieve the no-net loss of shoreline ecological function.
10:52:25 So you're trying to match the depth of Set back similar to either. One or 2 homes on either side of the of the subject lot, and they still need to enhance.
10:52:42 So that brings us those are the sort of 2 main buckets of changes.
10:52:49 Josh, we're back here at the Board of County Commissioner process. So I'm wondering if you want to walk through the ideas you had with the board.
10:52:59 Yeah, thank you, Lisa. So as you saw in the agenda request in the staff report, once we're finished with the presentations and we still have a little bit more and some question
and answers then.
10:53:09 This is the main decision that we're asking the board to entertain today, whether you want to accept the planning commission recommendation and move the package onto ecology
now or whether you want to hold a public hearing.
10:53:19 And we went ahead and worked with the clerk of the board to pick out. An appropriate time to have a public hearing if that's the decision.
10:53:27 And so we selected January eighth because we thought that January second. Was a little too close and plus with the holidays, and we'd just rather have.
10:53:35 A little bit more time if we're gonna we're gonna go into next year anyway, which also reminds me that we'll be coming to the board hopefully in a consent and a consent agenda
request next week to extend the contract with BIRTH consulting and the sub consultant.
10:53:53 Sanna in Wilson. For more work next year because we have some things to pick out among them besides finishing up this package is completing the shoreline user guide that we
started.
10:54:04 That goes along with this. So we've got that guide up to a point. That we submitted to ecology at the end of the grant period on June 30 of this year.
10:54:11 To to a draft point but we wanna make sure that the user guide reflects whatever the final decision is so there's that work to be done plus some training work with staff.
10:54:19 And some tweaks to the critical areas or to identify areas in the critical areas audience that need to be.
10:54:25 Revisited now that we've updated the show on the master program. So all that work we're proposing to do with a with an extension for time and a modest budget input as well.
10:54:35 So you'll see that. So either way, there's going to be work to be done.
10:54:38 I want to turn it over to the chair of the planning commission, but just another comment about about these issues.
10:54:44 So from my perspective, these are these are important issues to consider and all the input that we've received is valuable and you can you can tell certainly from the aquaculture
issue in particular.
10:54:56 That there are differences of opinion. And sometimes that gap is rather wide between certain interests. So I guess I would say that, We tried our best to go somewhere in the
middle.
10:55:09 It sounds like a lot of people are at least somewhat disappointed. It was remarkable that we got the correspondence from the Jamestown's column tribe saying that they were happy
with the compromise or the middle path.
10:55:22 So that was I don't remember seeing something like that before from a private that's at least in it a positive indication, but that said, I would say that we worked the consultants
and I collaborated on a memorandum to the Planning Commission for their November fifteenth.
10:55:34 Deliberation that laid out a series of options for each of these subject areas, sometimes 3, sometimes 2, sometimes 4 options to choose among.
10:55:43 And really we set it up in a way that we felt that any of those options would have been okay with us in the sense of we felt like it was consistent with the whack and the comments
that we've made from ecology.
10:55:53 So really normally you'd have a staff recommendation that would be strongly in one way or the other.
10:56:00 And I'm here to say, I don't, I don't really look at it that way.
10:56:01 I look at it more like. We put the issues before the planning commission through the public process and they made selections based on those options and we're happy with those
selections.
10:56:10 We believe that those would those would work. Of course, if the board decides to go in a different direction, any of those issue areas or others, then, you know, we can we can
work with our documentation to support that as well when we send that package off to ecology.
10:56:22 And then finally on the issues. On the issue of this conditionally use permit, I know that it's complicated.
10:56:29 I think that the board, because we've talked about this before and other avenues has a good understanding about.
10:56:34 How we have this process that we create different kinds of conditional use purpose. But that's really our choice and our own unified development code.
10:56:42 It's has nothing to do with the shoreline management act. In other words, a standard conditional use process versus a discretionary versus an administrative.
10:56:50 That's all our own UDC. As far as Department of Ecology is concerned, a shoreline condition use permit is a shoreline conditional use permit.
10:56:57 And they have the ultimate decision on that according to the law as well as variances. For substantial development permits, they could appeal the local government decision and
then for sure, permanent exemptions, they'd have to take us to court like anybody else on those.
10:57:09 So, there is this, I heard the comments this morning and there you'll see other comments that are similar to this.
10:57:18 Again, differences of opinion, the whack. That that was alluded to earlier in terms of the changes that happened.
10:57:25 Regarding GUI DUC allows local government discretion for conversions. But naturally not for new GUI duck aquaculture.
10:57:34 It says Aspi a condition in this permit. But I just want to be clear that we have chosen the condition use permanent avenue for both of those for new for conversions and then
this other thing.
10:57:43 That would be expansion that we have conditions in our own code about legal non-conforming uses and how those are expanded.
10:57:50 That's a pretty simple thing, but or a common thing I should say, but it's not actually mentioned in the whack.
10:57:54 So that other counties or other jurisdictions may have elected to do a different permit process besides conditional uses for conversions, but all of the recommendations you
have before you or the Plan Commission recommendation, everything's that's been considered is for a conditional use per permit.
10:58:11 It's just the type of process that gets there. And we made a choice based on the input that we had heard and all so the recommendation from ecology staff to go back and revisit
all of the thought that went into.
10:58:24 That whack change and some of that thought was this big study that happened that involved industry and other stakeholders to to look at GUI ducks.
10:58:32 This was a something that happened in the late 2 thousands and resulted in a 2,009 report. It's somehow pointed out that it's old information, but that is the information that
led to that whack change and that's the whack change that we have yet in Jefferson County to incorporate into our rules, which is why we're doing that.
10:58:45 And I guess I would say that that report talked about, you know, not all areas are created equal.
10:58:51 And so that would be the idea of having some some change in terms of what would be conversions or expansions and taking into account the area that you're talking about, what's
the upland shoreline environment designation?
10:59:02 Is it natural? Is it conservancy? Is it in rural residential intensity? So.
10:59:08 So we did that. We just put a little extra thing. So and I guess I would say I've heard it said that there's no rationale for doing that.
10:59:14 I guess I would quibble with that and saying that there is a rationale and the rationale came from looking at that and from discussion with ecology staff from reviewing all
the comments and saying that for example if you had a 50 acres in gooey duck and you wanted to add an acre that sounds different to me than adding another 50 acres.
10:59:29 So that's where that discretion come in. But again, any decision this made. Fine. You know, it's for us it's just a procedural thing.
10:59:36 Is it going to be administrative or is it going to go to a full blown hearing with a hearing examiner?
10:59:40 And so be it whichever way it goes. But I would, I would argue that there is a rationale for it and also I heard it mentioned that
10:59:48 There's no, it was a, I can't remember how it was phrase, but I guess I would say.
10:59:52 We did provide this answer at the Planning Commission and just, you know, obviously it was unsatisfactory for some people, but.
10:59:58 So with that, I'm gonna turn over to Richard Hall for just a comments about how the Plan Commission reached this hard decision.
11:00:07 And yeah, not easy. Thank you, Mr. Hall for all the planning commission's efforts on this.
11:00:09 I know you guys put in extra time. So, interesting process. And I must say that this was a there was a very active comment periods.
11:00:18 From residents and ministry and this extended. Before they open your hearings and actually after the hearing as well. So we got a lot of very helpful input.
11:00:30 In this process which was nice. The
11:00:37 The issue confining the Plan Commission was almost entirely goly-duck aquaculture. So that everything else was not a problem.
11:00:45 As far as our input from public. So that's what I'll focus on here.
11:00:49 And I'm going to also. Yeah, I love things because I don't wanna talk very long.
11:00:56 So from, there are 2 broad, from comments from residents, there were 2 broad categories, that we, we thought about.
11:01:06 And one was the GUU Duck production facilities are unsightly at low tide. And that's certainly the case.
11:01:11 At least, to us. And the second. Was a broader, the, facilities pose a variety of environmental.
11:01:18 Issues. Those are the 2 topics that that were recurring in the discussions for the presentations.
11:01:24 The current SMP draft attempt to address the unsightliness to the extent that it's possible RCWs impact that.
11:01:34 And we also, the environmental concerns It turns out are primarily addressed by state and federal law. So it really wasn't something that the Planning Commission felt we needed
to step into.
11:01:46 This was already addressed. The issues seemed like they were more enforcement. Then ordinance.
11:01:54 And there were also comments from industry and those were, again, I put things in twos.
11:02:02 One was that, We didn't we didn't want to present various successful commercial enterprise. And, and that can happen if with too many.
11:02:17 Too many rules. It can raise the cost, whether it raise the time it takes to establish an enterprise.
11:02:25 And as a consequence the cost of such a thing. And the second is that over regulation. Gives it in flexibility.
11:02:36 And in this guess me down to the last comment about standard. Well, in the end. The most controversial topic was a conditional use permits, but they should be standard or discretionary.
11:02:49 And in the end, the majority of commissioners felt the discretionary. See youP. Satisfy the needs for oversight.
11:03:02 But we're not as inflexible. As requiring a standard, CUP.
11:03:08 And that's gets us where we are. Great. That's the great distillation. Thank you, Chair Hall.
11:03:14 So entertain any questions you may have on any of the topics, Scooby Duck or otherwise. And then, the anticipation was that if you, if there were a motion made to either accept
the planet, commission recommendation, or hold a public hearing, then you would open up for public comment before taking action on that motion.
11:03:31 Okay. Sounds good. Clarifying questions first.
11:03:36 It was a lot of documents to read and I only got through about 400 pages of them last night.
11:03:43 And.
11:03:46 I would just be interested in your take Richard and Josh on the the difference, the functional difference between.
11:03:56 Discretionary in a standard CUP I know it's a public hearing requirement, but it.
11:04:02 Just kinda I want the feel. Like, what does it feel like? Being the team that's dealing with either of those 2 models.
11:04:14 And administrative. Yeah. 3. Yeah, so I go back to the days of when we were working on the Unified Development Code in the early 2,000 and we borrowed this concept from another
local government.
11:04:30 They think it just provides more flexibility in terms of reviewing applications because not all. Applications or proposals are created equal in the sense that It may be the
same type of thing, but when you look at size, scale, intensity, location, all the factors.
11:04:48 Sometimes in the discretion of, you know, a veteran. Planner case reviewer such as a development code administrator, there is would be a difference between, you know, going
to a public hearing, all the work it takes to do that and setting that up versus making a an administrative decision.
11:05:06 That's that discretionary piece. It just basically divides into the 2 camps. Is it going to be a full public hearing?
11:05:10 Or is it going to be a conditional use permit issue just through the office? Again, in this particular case, because that conditional use for permit, regardless of the process,
it took to get there, goes to ecology for a final decision.
11:05:23 They have a public comment period and a final decision. So there's already a lot of process built into that.
11:05:26 It is whether it's any of the 3 kinds. That's correct. Okay. Yeah, in terms of the shoreline because again we made up that other part we use this discretionary conditional use
process by the way and sometimes it's even just Ca so it's straight in the use table that it just goes straight to administration if you don't even have the discretionary part to decide.
11:05:44 Which way. And that's because we've already pre identified different kinds of uses throughout that use table.
11:05:47 Again, this is irrespective of the Shoreline Master Program that are the types of uses in those types of districts that we've decided collectively that we don't need the same
level of process.
11:05:58 I would say that There are advantages to having a full condition using those have been described, plentifully and bountifully by the comment makers in terms of the advantages
of that.
11:06:10 There are some disadvantages well in the sense of if you have again no, if you don't have that discretion between different types and the scale intensity of different proposals
then you're automatically going there.
11:06:21 There's the cost and time associated. We just got a here. We just got a decision back last Friday from the hearing seminar that the hearing was.
11:06:29 I wanna say late late September. So just gives you an idea about some additional time factors that are involved in the full C versus just getting that permit out the door and
again ecology in the case of shorelines having the advantage of the power in a sense to make that final decision.
11:06:45 So. Those are some. I guess, that answer your question. Yeah.
11:06:51 Could you repeat that, the state portion? Sorry, did you say all 3 go to ecology?
11:06:54 Yeah, so just to rewind on that and there was a memo. Commissioner Dean about conditionally's premise.
11:06:59 I think I pointed you to in an email and it's in the packet, but essentially. In shoreline management, you have.
11:07:06 4 different kinds of permits.
11:07:10 You've got your permit exemption, which means you don't have to get a substantial development permit.
11:07:14 That's the simplest. Those and it's all listen in whack and RCW actually some of those exemptions.
11:07:22 Then you have a substantial development permit that's your classic. Permit. That's a local government decision.
11:07:30 That ecology could appeal. The shoreline hearings board. Hit their unhappy with it. Then you have the 2 that are really ecology decisions.
11:07:39 Variances and conditional uses under shorelines. So we send those to them. They have their own public comment period.
11:07:46 They make the decision. They send it to us saying we agree or here's some additional conditions or we deny.
11:07:51 They could do that even if it goes to a hearingings, they can deny that permit. Under the shoreline management act.
11:07:57 The whole thing about conditional versus discretionary versus administrative that is completely Jefferson County. Nothing to do with Charlie management after the whack rules
around shorelines.
11:08:07 That's just our own process. We've created some flexibility, just like we have unnamed uses.
11:08:12 That's another example of how we've created flexibility. Our own code. That's just a choice that we made many, many years ago and we do that in many other areas of land use
planning.
11:08:21 This just happens to be this applied to the shoreline planning. So from ecology standpoint. They don't care how we got to the conditional use.
11:08:30 They just look at what the decision is and then act accordingly. But in either variances or any of the CPP processes, we still go through a local process and then it gets sent
to ecology for approval or denial. Correct.
11:08:43 Thank you. In some cases it just doesn't include as much public hearing. Right. Okay, that reminds me of the other question. What's the big difference?
11:08:54 Okay, so. So both a type 2 and type 3 process because that's what we're talking about when you translate it to the UDC language, right?
11:09:02 Type 2, anti 3 both have Public comment periods.
11:09:07 And one though is a public comment period that's associated around a public hearing before a neutral third party.
11:09:16 Hearing examiner that's contracted with county to make these decisions. The public comment period is associated with the type 2.
11:09:24 Is collected by the department and then considered by the super responsible official and the development code administrator and making the decision.
11:09:31 So those main difference. There's public coming period in both. But one would be just written as was mentioned and one would be both written and oral testimony provided in a
public hearing format.
11:09:42 You talked about the time impact of that hearing would have, you know, 3 months on, light side really, it seems like in these days.
11:09:50 Do you know what the financial impact for the applicant and a potential opponent might be? I don't have the numbers in front of me, Commissioner Brotherton, but it's safe to
say that it's more expensive.
11:09:58 A type 3 permit is more expensive than a type 2. 10 grand more I mean it's like 2,500 just for the hearing examiner right?
11:10:06 I feel like just for that plus I don't think the Typically the price of the permit, for example, would be that level of difference.
11:10:13 But I would say more like the ultimate cost of the regulatory process and you might hear this in the public comment period here.
11:10:20 Is more to do with the complexity of the proposal and the cost of doing all the studies it takes to get that.
11:10:26 Proposal through the permitting process both hours and others. So, but in terms of the permit price, we charge for the additional hours as a base fee that we know go into a
public hearing versus an administrative decision and then there's the potentially additional Noticing fees, but I think the noticing piece would be fairly similar.
11:10:46 And so there have been some complex cases in my experience since I rejoined the county. That I've gone through a hearing exam that had resulted in an invoice being sent to that
applicant because of the complexity of that hearing.
11:10:59 And that was the invoice that we got from the examiner, which we passed on those costs to the permanent.
11:11:03 And so there is a bit of an unknown factor depending on how complex that process can be. Okay. Go back to that, take 2 and type 3.
11:11:15 Could you explain again how that translates to the different types of CUPs? Yeah, so.
11:11:18 A conditional discretionary use in the use table. Creates a path decision for the development code administrator. And if the development code administrator decides to go with
a standard conditional use permit, then that proposal is considered a type 3 process.
11:11:36 That's the capital C. If the code administrator decides that it's an administrative condition, it's more appropriate for this particular proposal.
11:11:45 Whether it be an expansion in this case, according to the use table. An expansion or a conversion from an existing aquaculture operation from one kind of shellfish species to
GUI duck.
11:11:56 Then that would be considered a type 2 process. If it were determined to be administrative. It's written public comment and an appeal mechanism.
11:12:07 Is there a public notice requirement associated with administrative And. There's an appeal mechanism for for that for type 2 decisions so this is guys where it gets a little
complicated and actually i might ask amy or Lisa for to confirm this but If it had nothing to do with shorelines and department of ecology, if we have a type 2 permit, that decision
can be appealed to a hearing examiner.
11:12:35 Which creates this other hearing process on the appeal. In this case, We're sending that already over to aology for their decision.
11:12:44 So it's possible there could be 2 Byte at the Apple in terms of appeals on a conditional.
11:12:49 Ministry of use anyway. Type one would be a shoreline permit exemption. Which looks and acts like a permit.
11:12:53 It is a permit from Jepson County. It just isn't a substantial development permit and it just it's handled differently at the Department of Ecology.
11:12:59 But that's a type one decision, which could only be appealed to superior court. Just like.
11:13:05 What's an example of a type one kind of project? Building permit, shoreline permit exemption.
11:13:13 A yes use in the use table. That doesn't, that isn't, doesn't require a type 2 process.
11:13:20 A booi now, right? On this program, yeah, that's confirm that one too.
11:13:25 I think that we said a permanent, but we might have said type 2, but I will say this, I'm glad you brought that up.
11:13:29 Different issue than GUI. Aquaculture, but similar to just your questions, Commissioner Dean about process.
11:13:36 The current shoreline master program in effect today. Substantial development permit is a type 3 process which requires a public hearing.
11:13:45 I was actually kind of Surprise to hear that because I don't remember ever encountering that before.
11:13:49 It wasn't that way in the 2,000 when I worked as a permit planner here for the county.
11:13:54 So that we're sort of changing back. To what we think is the more appropriate process, which would be a type 2 process for an SDP or sure.
11:14:01 Troll and substantial development permit and that was specifically for the regulatory reform approach. So I keep wanting to go back.
11:14:07 Yeah, of course. Who has standing in an appeal in a type 2? Is that just the applicant or would could the public also appeal?
11:14:17 Or impacted neighbors or what's the. I believe that anyone who is part of the record would have standing on an appeal process.
11:14:25 I could double check that. With Lisa just to make sure that there isn't any nuance here in shoreline that of which I'm unaware but I think the standing rules on that apply to
people in the record.
11:14:34 So I don't know for a fact and maybe Barbara's listening can weigh in on this as well our prosecuting attorneys office but if someone failed to comment during the original permit
decision, would that person have standing?
11:14:47 That I don't know for a fact, but I do. Confident that someone participating in the process made a comment during that comment period would be a party that could appeal that
permit decision.
11:14:58 As well as a type 3, presumably. Right, so a type 3. We have a hearing already.
11:15:06 We used to have an appeal hearing examiner Jefferson County. We don't have that anymore. So A regular type 3, nothing to do with shorelines that would be.
11:15:14 I think a court action at that point. But in the in the shoreline environment world, you've got the ecology process and their appeal process which involves a different board
called a shoreline hearings board which is part of the environmental hearings office of the state and there's pollution control board and growth management hearing board and other boards.
11:15:34 Yes. Okay.
11:15:35 Josh just to confirm in the SNP it does say that the notice of decision goes to the applicant in the party's record.
11:15:52 Hmm.
11:15:45 That would be the notice that would also give them. Time frame for an appeal. There is an appeal process of denial of a CUP by ecology.
11:15:59 As well.
11:16:03 I'd love to hear a little more about the, other permitting and regulatory frameworks that exist I I find it a little frustrating that local government is trying to figure out
the best management practices for GUI duck farming, like, you know, we are not qualified to do that.
11:16:20 I would love, I know industry is, Thank you a lot about this, but. Can you talk a little bit about the role of Army Corps and hydraulic permits and are there what other safeguards
are there in place that are triggered by applications in Jefferson County.
11:16:38 Yeah, thanks. For the question. I'll give my approach and if Lisa or Amy in particular wanted to respond plus you have of course some industry representatives during the public
comment period I'm sure we'll weigh in so Like many activities.
11:16:52 There are multiple levels of permitting for this type of activity like many activities in water I should say for sure.
11:16:59 However, there is something interesting about aquaculture in general in our state. In that pursuant to to whack most aquaculture activities do not have to get.
11:17:14 An HPA or a hydraulic project approval through the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, whereas other parties doing other activities that you could argue would be somewhat
similar.
11:17:24 Have to get that HPA. That's just kind of a thing. Not sure how that happened exactly, but it's a decision I think from the attorney general's office that then later became
codified in whack.
11:17:34 So that is a difference there. I think that's not the same as for say infrastructure, like if you were installing overwater structures like and floating up upweller system or
flipsy or muscle rafts like maybe the anchoring systems might not be exempt.
11:17:51 I'm not even sure about that or associated activities like you had a pier or dock facility that was associated with that commercial enterprise that might require an HPA.
11:17:59 I'm only bringing the HP into it because that is an exception. So the normal sort of fish habitat protective measures that are part of the hydraulic code do not apply.
11:18:06 However, that said, there is a farm registration that Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife does if you're going to transport.
11:18:14 Commercial product like for example I know in the Finnish aquaculture world you're transporting your your product from one location to another there's a there's a transfer permit
that ecology sorry fish and wildlife does and that's to prevent inadvertent spread of a potential diseases from from one stock to another.
11:18:33 Army Corps of Engineers. Is a principal regulator in the world of aquaculture.
11:18:40 There they have both a nationwide permit for aquaculture and a standard individual permit depending on the nature of things.
11:18:50 I think that the nationwide permanent is in the process of being redone based on some court action and activity.
11:18:56 And I know that sort of the regulatory world was flipped, flipped upside down a little bit in the last few years.
11:19:01 From that decision, a lot of folks who were covered under nationwide had to then get sort of interim coverage for their activities before that new nationwide permit was developed.
11:19:11 So again, a whole complex regulatory web there, but the bottom line is there is a federal permit. For aquaculture activities.
11:19:20 Whether it's a nationwide permit that has a list of best mentioned practices that if you're following that and you're you're going to be covered your activities.
11:19:29 Versus an individual permanent that's based on that specific location and operation. And every commercial shellfish operator in the county would have that Army Corps.
11:19:41 Do we have any idea if there's? Enforcement or monitoring. I'm not aware of the extent of that.
11:19:51 I mean, there is enforcement mechanisms. And oftentimes other parties such as. Tribes who feel that their their interests are being affected in terms of usual and accustomed
shellfish areas would.
11:20:05 Invoke their their power and their relationship at the federal government government to government. Context with the Army Corps of Engineers.
11:20:15 I know that's happened before in terms of enforcement. It's interesting. I think I was mentioned before by a commenter that there has been a period in Jefferson County where
certain kinds of aquaculture didn't require a shoreline permit.
11:20:28 And so there are operations in Jefferson County that don't have shoreline permits but are considered legal non-conforming.
11:20:35 If, for example, if this passes and then we have some form of this passes and we comply with that whack.
11:20:41 It talks about GUIDA cocoa culture then some of those operations that are existing may be in that status.
11:20:46 And just to be clear that There's a standard, I think it's 25%. Expansion trigger for other types of aquaculture.
11:20:54 If you go beyond a 25% expansion, that's when the county comes in with a permit, whereas for GUI or cocoa culture, it's any expansion, which again, brings me back to the concept
of having some discretion there because there could be a difference between a 1% or one acre expansion versus over 25% or some other level.
11:21:11 So but really any expansion would trigger review by the county. Thank you. Alright, any other questions? And a complicated subject.
11:21:22 It's a complicated document. I, you know, I spent a lot of time going through it this weekend as well.
11:21:27 I always get hung up on the modest house. I think I understand the issue. I'm like, what is what is I have?
11:21:35 I don't, so I, I get a different buffer, you know, I don't have a curtain, so I, I get a different buffer, you know?
11:21:38 I mean, I, I get a different buffer, you know? I mean, I, but, I appreciated Lisa talk about the 2,500 square feet.
11:21:42 I also learned about groins. Did you guys look at groins? That's in the definitions.
11:21:46 Growing is defined, but modest house is not defined in the definitions and I'm just wondering is there anywhere in there?
11:21:51 That it's. Talked about explicitly. I mean, is it kind of concept that's so general?
11:21:57 Actually, I'll turn it over to Lisa. After one brief comment, which is that this is exist, the modest tone provision was already there.
11:22:05 And I think the idea conceptually was that. Someone purchases or just happens to own a property that that is shallow.
11:22:14 Compared to deep in terms of potential setbacks, you just simply can't do the setback, right?
11:22:19 So we all are from, I think, with constitutionally based. Taking's provisions.
11:22:28 So. If a local, if a government takes property from someone the ability to use that property to a certain extent then you maybe go beyond those US constitutional concerns and
so there's sometimes there's a provision for the for a reasonable economic use of a property.
11:22:44 I believe that the modest home provision is essentially an indication of that for that kind of situation. So in other words, instead of saying, look, you can't make the buffer,
so you're out of luck. You can build a house there.
11:22:54 We can say you can build a quote. Modest home there. In other words, like You can get closer if you do certain things with the buffer, but.
11:23:02 But allowing for example to build have no limitation on square footage could be contrary to the a reasonable economic use of a property that One could argue that according to
the rules and regulations of what we're trying to accomplish there with no net loss of habitat function.
11:23:17 Shouldn't happen in the first place. So I think it's a compromise provision, but Amy, I guess it's not in the in the definition, but I know that the 2,500 square feet of appears
in the in the section itself is that correct?
11:23:30 Yes, the 2,500 square feet is in the current code. But what was confusing in the current code and where we spend our time on the definitions is on nonconforming lot.
11:23:43 And what that meant. And so we added basically a formula. That the combination of the standard buffer plus.
11:23:55 Typical home depth. Plus the dry way plus building setbacks and so on. Were combined, where how you determine what's a non-conforming lot.
11:24:07 And I would support what Josh said about the modest home. There's There's case law another example regulations including in the critical areas world where trying to have a modest
home.
11:24:23 Size. Defined helps both the applicant and the staff that has to apply it. But ultimately get at that reasonable use of property.
11:24:33 I mean, do you want to add more there?
11:24:36 Yeah, I was just gonna add to that. We also looked at again, harkening back to the whole.
11:24:44 There's too many variances in Jefferson County. One of the things that was driving variances, for people that otherwise should have been able to use the modest home for people
that otherwise should have been able to use the modest home was a provision that said you can't use modest home was a provision that said you can't use modest home if there's geologic
hazards on
11:24:58 your And for many of those, it was a pretty straightforward geo technical assessment that could be done that said, you know, this is all bedrock and there's no risk.
11:25:08 Etc. And so we massage the language there so that if you do have geologic hazards, you can produce that report.
11:25:18 And still be able to use. This modest home provision which should really reduce the number of variances based just on the examples that I saw.
11:25:29 And while also still making sure that it's a safe project.
11:25:32 Amy, could you talk for just a second here about? The other way we work to reduce the number of variances required with respect to lateral expansion versus waterward expansion.
11:25:45 Do you recall how we modified that section?
11:25:47 I think Lisa might have the best quickest. Summary of that.
11:25:53 In addition to, provisions that allow non-conforming lots to be developed, there's another section of the code that allows non-conforming homes.
11:26:05 To be modified. And so they're There were some. I think challenges in interpreting the current code that also led to more complex permitting processes.
11:26:20 So we looked at how and when you might allow a lateral expansion so your your front house wall doesn't shift forward but you're adding to the side.
11:26:33 You can also add a second floor you can add behind that allowing for lateral expansions and also what We called fill in the notch which was let's say you have a small area at
the front of the house that could be filled in that already has impervious surface.
11:26:53 Doesn't change the front wall line, but basically just encloses something that is small. We added provisions for Shoreline Enhancement in order to do to ensure no net loss of
shoreline ecological function and made it more clear.
11:27:10 How and when you would apply for those. So that was another category of changes to Josh's point that were meant for regulatory reform and we were trying to respond.
11:27:22 To tribal and agency input to add enough parameters. To assure no net loss of shoreline ecological function and then we also did the cumulative impacts analysis addendum.
11:27:34 To to try to demonstrate that we We calculated how many lots could possibly use different avenues that we've just been describing modest home or common line.
11:27:47 And what the provisions were that would protect the environment.
11:27:52 Great. Thank you for that. All right, any last questions? I have a simmering question.
11:27:58 Oh, like, is a seawall. I know that's where your question. I know. I'm an avoided. Okay.
11:28:07 Can I, hopefully this will be a quick one and Yeah, one of the challenges with the AV capture where we access a lot of our documents is that none of the links are live.
11:28:15 And so like, you know, trying to go between 25 documents has been hard and I didn't, I just say I'm guilty of having not always gone to check them.
11:28:22 So I did. I noticed the section about the site potential tree height WDFW recommended that for buffers and just it sounds like that was not incorporated.
11:28:34 Correct. I'm, I'm gonna turn it over to Lisa and Amy to talk about this one because we specifically did consider that and came up with a a way that we propose would be a way
to.
11:28:47 To factor that that decision in or that recommendation in. And I think it was one of the things that we, again, you're trying to.
11:28:54 To thread this needle or walk a fine line or however you want to say it between all these various interests like promoting water dependent uses or allowing people to to build
on their property along the shoreline or having some degree of flexibility in the code but also achieving no loss of ecological function.
11:29:10 And we felt like to fish in wildlife. Input. Was better considered during the critical areas update process because that's typically what you're talking about there is a freshwater
system as more than a marine system.
11:29:23 Not of course there are marine considerations to having. Buffer vegetation, which is why we have all those regulations, but the actual function of the height of a tree visa
v shading.
11:29:32 I would say according to the science is different than the function you get in a repairing area on a freshwater system.
11:29:40 But can you talk Lisa to the point of how we dealt with a fish and wildlife input.
11:29:44 I think Amy could speak to the more specifics of applying that approach and then I could come in and share what were we trying to do with the various options.
11:29:55 And in the code. So I mean, do you want to talk about what that is and.
11:29:59 Sure. This is something that's popping up in jurisdictions around the state, not just in Jefferson County.
11:30:11 So it's not the first time we've seen it. And I think Department of Ecology is is also kind of reviewing it and aware of it because there are just.
11:30:23 Straightforward implementation of it the way Fish and Wildlife would like it to be applied can rub.
11:30:29 Against some of the purposes of the shoreline management act, which is to like accommodate water dependent uses and preferred uses that sort of thing.
11:30:38 But that on a more, so that kind of is a little bit of a conflict with the SMA and certain situations.
11:30:45 But then also just trying to implement that if you take a look at Deputy of W's mapping of site potential tree height and it's just got kind of polygons all over the place that
are based on underlying soils and the information that kind of goes with that soils mapping, you could end up with, you know, adjacent properties or even a single property that's split
and one side might have a hundred
11:31:12 and 5 foot site potential tree hide and then the other side might have a hundred 95. So it and these 2 properties to a typical person would look identical or so it just feels
like It could be very difficult to implement.
11:31:31 There's fairness. There's implementation why do they get 105 and i have 195 and then there's also some areas that there's a data gap and so there isn't a WFW site potential
tree.
11:31:46 I recommended for that particular parcel as well. And so kind of for all of those reasons, we feel like at least at this point the counties buffer strategies.
11:32:13 Also still protect shoreline ecological functions while having all of the different provisions that are consistent with the S.
11:32:21 In trying to integrate This rather complicated site potential tree height. Protocol or strategy into the SNP.
11:32:34 For this minor periodic update or what's supposed to be a periodic update, just felt like an awful lot to chew.
11:32:42 And in address. So I don't know, maybe Lisa, this is a good point for you to chime in on that.
11:32:51 Yes, 1 point we were, looking back at some options we had shared with the planning commission on the common line provision.
11:33:01 We had 2 options. One was keep it in but add more protective elements, and make it clear that it's for conforming lots.
11:33:08 And another option was to remove it because the the practicalities. Where the results were really similar to what you could achieve with just the standard buffer reduction or
averaging process.
11:33:23 And that might make an odd towards simplification and also a nod towards, you know, I guess fewer, fewer avenues for change.
11:33:32 But I think in the end the planning commission was interested in common line. For the view protection as long as there were all the other parameters for ecological protection.
11:33:43 So we ended up there, but it is an option we could explore with the board if you're interested in.
11:33:50 I'm not suggesting that. Just curious because I hear it being talked about. You know, it's a complicated one. Yeah. Yeah, right.
11:33:59 Percent. Yeah, I hear it being talked about. You know, it's a complicated one. Yeah. Yeah, right.
11:34:02 Thanks for getting into that folks. Sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. I added some value to that. I, I'm sorry. I added some value to that. I apologize.
11:34:16 I'm just, I'm just an, I' Understand the nexus for protecting eel grass function because I know we're trying to re-establish.
11:34:20 And protect eel grass beds. And I'm. Haven't gotten to that part of the reading so If anyone has any, input for me. I'd love it.
11:34:35 I'll start just briefly and maybe you could probably supplement that too. I guess I would say for ill grass.
11:34:39 For those types of proposals that need an HPA, you've got protections there.
11:34:45 I know for example City of Port Townsend wanted to to change and fix and expand their sewer outfall and ill grass was a big part of that like threading the needle on the ill
grass and kelp beds like and there was a big discussion around where to go and there was a multi departmental discussion because DNR remember manages state on aquatic land and and much
of our ill grass resources are on
11:35:05 state on aquatic land because they extend beyond the private tide lands. Not all but most. And that plus Army Corps would have would have eel grass provisions in there and and
we also and generally in Dory S and P have similar protections so I guess I would say that to the extent practical that that eel grass protection is an aspect of regulating shoreline
uses including our culture.
11:35:29 Okay. Alright, so the task in front of us is to hopefully make a motion on whether we want to accept the recommendation of the planning commission and submit this to ecology
as is or hold our own public hearing.
11:35:44 So I think the our usual practices that we can deliberate now make a motion after the motion has been seconded.
11:35:50 We would open it up for public comments so they can speak directly to the motion as the public comment that we would like to receive today.
11:35:57 So. Thoughts. It's a complicated proposal in front of us, of course. I.
11:36:05 Because because the process has been so long and Someone clunky as was outlined to us earlier in this presentation.
11:36:16 I would lean towards having a hearing. Just so people have an opportunity. For us to hear their concerns directly from them.
11:36:26 You think we haven't had an opportunity to hear people's concerns? Well, maybe we're gonna hear him in response to me just saying that, but I in general.
11:36:35 As a commissioner. I mean, I ran because on the tenant that I wanted to hear from as many people as possible.
11:36:43 And I feel like I've read, I spent a lot of time reading the public comments last night.
11:36:49 I would love to hear more.
11:36:54 Okay, your thoughts? Yeah, I, you know, I do also err towards trying to get as much public input as possible.
11:37:03 I think in this case we are very likely to hear the same comments we have heard. Like I don't think that there will be.
11:37:09 Anything new. But I can certainly go. Either way on this. You know, airing on the side of transparency is always helpful.
11:37:20 And as you said, Greg, you know, this hasn't come before us, which. You know, unless the base following the planning commission, it largely hasn't come before the public.
11:37:29 So, can go either way but I have a feeling it's gonna come down to the same kind of challenging issues that you know and ones that divided the planning commission vote very
closely is probably going to be you know some the public.
11:37:49 We're really just talking about the aqua culture, specifically the GUI. Aquacultures.
11:37:50 I don't know the definition of a modest home. Have you ever lived in a 2,500 square foot now?
11:37:56 I haven't. 1,200. So you're saying you have I do have curtains.
11:38:03 Sorry. I digress. So I can go either way. I worry a little bit about the amount of effort that staff goes through to put, you know, to put on a hearing.
11:38:16 When again, I feel like we're going to get a lot of the same input, but.
11:38:20 Yeah, that's okay. That's the business we're in. People's work. I'll share.
11:38:28 I, you know, I was very involved in this process as the member of the task force that made the initial recommendations and.
11:38:35 I heard from some of the task force members how non plus they were about the planning commission's adjustments in a time when we were not doing great about.
11:38:42 Public meetings it was like the dawn of COVID and also the dawn of zoo really for us.
11:38:49 And but I feel like the process has gone through a lot of iterations. I've been following pretty closely.
11:38:56 I mean, I don't think we're gonna get a lot of new information after what we've got today.
11:38:59 Stark perspectives that cannot be reconciled. So I feel like staff and the planning commissioner done a really good Really good job.
11:39:11 It's splitting the baby. Good job splitting the baby in half. You know, if everyone's a little bit upset, with the state of it, that probably means it's a little bit upset,
with the state of it, that probably means it's a work of upset, with the state of it, that probably means it's a workable conference.
11:39:24 I. We've been through this with. Marijuana, farms before your day.
11:39:33 But it's, you know, it's really divisive and conditional use permits.
11:39:36 There they are they're pretty onerous to go through. I mean they and so when we can do them on a discretionary level or an administration administrative level and I I think
that we should so I feel like this proposal this recommendation does find a lane that is workable for all of them, even though it's not.
11:39:57 Perfect for either the kind of the residents that oppose, I mean, be frank, oppose GUI that farms, right?
11:40:07 And the aquaculture folks that want to create as.
11:40:11 Clear a path to economic development and the vibrancy of this you know really large the biggest part.
11:40:16 Agriculture in Jefferson County is aquaculture. And you know, we're talking about just GUI dots, but these impacts are gonna be
11:40:25 I think to a degree system one. So I guess I would, I would lean towards accepting the recommendations.
11:40:31 And moving forward. But.
11:40:36 I think to him a little. Like I am interested in. And really understanding and I.
11:40:46 Obviously spent a lot of time with this last night and agreed, really appreciate the work that's been done to date and feel like it is trying to thread that needle.
11:40:54 You know. I think what we're trying to get at is recognizing that. GUI duck farming is an intensification.
11:41:02 From versus other types of shellfish. Farming and how to Get it those impacts to minimize harm too.
11:41:10 The ecological function of the shoreline. The, you know. I understand the aesthetic concerns of the neighbors.
11:41:19 I'm less concerned about the aesthetics than I am about the ecological impacts. And, So I feel like I would feel a little rushed in in just adopting those today without really
being able to understand.
11:41:33 Does this. Do these recommendations. The draft SNP as presented, are we sure that we're getting at those impacts adequately?
11:41:43 And that's one of the reasons I was asking about the other regulatory frameworks because it feels like a big heavy lift for the county to be doing that alone.
11:41:51 And I think that is something I would like to learn more, especially from industry. What are the industry standards?
11:41:56 What's the direction they're headed? What assurances do we have that that there is some sort of responsibility for derelict gear and So I.
11:42:09 Yeah. I think I am.
11:42:11 Talking myself into leaning more towards the hearing in in part just because I don't feel like I have all of that information yet.
11:42:19 You know, there's no there's no harm in I mean, site costs and staff capacity, but I don't have an objection to having a hearing if you both are inclined that way.
11:42:27 So. To the conversation before we make motion. I do think it's interesting that you mentioned marijuana because this is very similar.
11:42:39 I do think it's interesting that you mentioned marijuana because this is very similar I think to marijuana because this is very similar I think to marijuana because this is
very similar I think to marijuana where you know we were the only county in marijuana because this is very similar I think to marijuana where you know we were the only county in the
state that said marijuana is agriculture period, you know, we were the only county in the state that said marijuana is agriculture, period, right?
11:42:47 To farm provisions supply, no additional regulation. The state obviously had a robust regulatory system. I know that it was a conditional use. It wasn't right to farm.
11:42:56 You have a conditional use permit. Taipei in rural residential. But you know, we realized over a number of years that it was more intense. It did have different impacts.
11:43:15 And so we were This is a little bit different. This isn't the same. And so I think the work recognizes that.
11:43:17 I don't know that the public's had enough time to digest that and I'm still learning too.
11:43:22 Okay, well I had welcome a motion. If either of you are so inclined.
11:43:27 Yeah, to scroll through the 300 pages schedule a public hearing before the board. That's it.
11:43:34 Yeah, I just wanna make sure, see if there's any language I need to include in that.
11:43:39 Just your particular language you need.
11:43:43 No, just, A motion to. To direct staff to. A public hearing for the board for the Charlotte Master Program periodic review proposed.
11:43:56 Okay, so moved. Happy to second. All right, it's been moved and seconded to conduct a hearing.
11:44:05 All right, it's been moved and seconded to conduct a hearing. In January, thank you, Josh.
11:44:08 And seconded to conduct a hearing in January. Thank you, Josh. We'll now open it up for public comment.
11:44:09 We have just 15Â min. Thank you, Josh. Well, now open it up for public comment. We have just 15Â min before 12 and a busy afternoon as well.
11:44:14 So if you could keep your comments, you know, directly to this motion that's on the floor, it would be really helpful and your thoughts about it.
11:44:20 I'll turn to the room. If you can keep it at, let's say 2Â min for everyone.
11:44:25 So, anyone in the room that would like to make public comment, please come up, sir. You're next.
11:44:32 Oh, keep mine in 30Â s. Mike Schultz, district 2 planning question. I'm one of the 2 persons that voted against.
11:44:40 Conditional use. And Cynthia, I heard spoke this morning. And so I just wanted to go on the record as We believe that there should be full.
11:44:52 Additional use permit. And on the. Setbacks for different zoning.
11:45:01 I'm one of the LD. Richard, Missouri's a builder. And we want Thanks to be clear, not in big choice.
11:45:11 So that they're the better. That's my comment. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Shells.
11:45:14 Nice to meet you. Please.
11:45:22 It's still good morning. My name is Ernie World. I am the regulatory affairs director with Taylor Shelfish.
11:45:30 I have written a lot of permits. Aquaculture is one of the most heavily regulated food foods in the United States along with milk.
11:45:40 There are several layers of regulation including federal, state, tribal and local and
11:45:50 Conditional use permit for aquaculture for GUI. Aqua culture.
11:45:56 There are several layers that are included in that. And some of it was touched on as far as the cost of what that includes, which can run into the tens of thousands of dollars
for what is being required.
11:46:10 There is multiple levels of public comment period available with each of these different authorities. A card goes out notifying parcels within a certain distance of the proposed
farm.
11:46:28 And folks have quite a bit of opportunity to apply comment both to local for the conditional use permit. For the the section 10 rivers and harbors under the Army Corps if there's
a 400, and one application which you would receive for GUI.
11:46:43 Duck, aquaculture, there's another public comment period. For that. And so there are just like this process, which has been, well evaluated by the planning commission.
11:46:56 There are multiple opportunities for the public to comment and they generally do if there is something that they are concerned with.
11:47:05 As far as enforcement goes, just because you don't like the action of the enforcement, how it turns out does not mean that enforcement is not effective.
11:47:14 As a grower that receives multiple. Letters regarding business activities. We invite those enforcement authorities to come out, take a look.
11:47:28 They provide feedback in the case here. That you heard earlier. They just didn't like the answer.
11:47:37 As far as the concerns regarding eel grass and forage fish, aquaculture is generally below where forged fish is located.
11:47:45 There is a requirement by the Army Corps of Engineers regarding the horizontal distance from new aqua culture to eel grass.
11:47:55 And really the biggest hazard to forge fish right now is residential homeland with bulkheads that are cutting off the feeder bluffs.
11:48:06 I think that's what I got. Thank you. Anyone else in the room like to make public comment today?
11:48:13 Specifically on whether we should hold the hearing on this issue is really what we're interested in. Alright, I'll turn online. We'll come.
11:48:22 Just like being back last, don't you? Just like being back last, don't you? I do.
11:48:29 Yeah, okay. We'll go online after. Yeah.
11:48:33 Just for clarification. From a member of their planning commission. So I think it was the proposal in the present draft of the SMP update actually includes CUPs.
11:48:49 For all types of GUIDAC expansion, which is not required in the WAC. And it's not the case and our neighbour to the south, Mason County, where I think conversions and expansions
do not require a CUP.
11:49:04 Instead we have as Greg and I were both on, Commissioner. Brotherton and I were both on the task force back in twin late 2,020 the
11:49:19 At that time, it didn't require full Cp's for conversions and expansions.
11:49:28 And we saw the the draft. SMP update changed significantly from what the task force contributed to and what came back to us in October, 2,021.
11:49:46 And I did participate in meetings, planning commission meetings between that time, but as Commissioner Brotherton or Eisenhower pointed out there's Excess at that time was severely
limited.
11:50:01 Due to a clunky system that was very hard to gain access to meetings or even know whether they're on.
11:50:07 I am not particularly happy with the Planning Commission's suggestions, but it's gone through a process and and hopefully I can live with it.
11:50:18 So, and I think that Commissioner Dean and Brothers in the right. That you hear the same stuff.
11:50:26 From the same people. But hey, if you've got the time and the candy's got the money, fire into it.
11:50:34 I'm sure there's nothing else you can do with your money. Thanks very much. Thank you, Greg.
11:50:39 Yes, Mr. Walter. Yep, you, you got as much time as you. Yes, Marilyn show Walter.
11:50:48 I want to comment on the role of the federal government oversight, the army core. You heard that there is such a thing called a nationwide permit and also individual permits.
11:51:00 The nationwide permits at this point is has been judicially removed. And the individual, which is where an individual farmer gets an individual permit from the core.
11:51:13 Used to be used but they're very they're very few of them. There's a third option that the core has used that evades completely.
11:51:23 The oversight and process, not the oversight, but the process for the for the nationwide permit or the individual permit.
11:51:31 It's called a letter of permission. The core has issued some 700 of these in the last year and a half to.
11:51:39 No notice is required. We don't know what was proposed or even if something has been proposed.
11:51:48 There the notice that can occur at a county level of 300 feet. For a land within the space is not sufficient.
11:52:00 For things that occur in the water. So I live few 100 feet from something that I just found out is going on because of an LP.
11:52:10 And there is no way I wouldn't have known. There's stuff that washes up the beach, that kind of thing.
11:52:18 So my point here is that The federal oversight is not a substitute. For the the county process and the PUC process.
11:52:28 Yes, cup process. I like that. I think we should start. The cup process is the only process that allows the in.
11:52:39 Person. A voice to be heard so that you know it is heard. I know you're hearing this but when you're there's several 100 pages of written comments.
11:52:50 You really don't know. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Walton. All right, we'll turn to Kim Thompson online.
11:52:58 You have 3Â min. Take it away, Ken.
11:53:02 Are you still muted?
11:53:08 Can you hear me now?
11:53:09 Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
11:53:11 Alright, thank you so much for this opportunity to comment. My name is Kim Thompson. And I am the executive director for the Pacific Coast Chelfish Goers Association.
11:53:22 We represent Buy Velchelle fish growers along the Pacific coast with the majority being in Washington and of course we have several members who are in Jefferson County who provide
important sources of well-paying jobs and economic activity.
11:53:34 We greatly appreciate the work of the planning commissioners have put into the revision and we request you move accept and move forward with the SMP and move it direct to ecology
without public comment.
11:53:46 The current version will not perfect is workable for the growers. If this document does move forward with public comment as has been stated, it's likely going to be the same
argument you've heard.
11:53:57 If changes are made and they become more prescriptive, it could cause hardships that many growers won't be able to navigate and this can have severe impacts on the diversity
of the types and sizes of farms, which is critical to the help of the industry in Washington.
11:54:11 To emphasize points made earlier, many of these concerns are already addressed in state and federal steps of the permitting process, eel grass extensively so.
11:54:19 That said, we do have some items we would like to improve if it does open up. In addition to the important economic and job benefits our growers provide to local community shellfish
farming also provides an important source of nutritious food with less impact on the environment.
11:54:35 And shell fish growers are actively engaged in ongoing efforts to support healthy water quality and ecosystems that benefit not just their livelihoods, but the communities in
which they operate.
11:54:44 We urge you to consider the many benefit shellfish for me can provide Jefferson County and its residents and keep in mind that the growers themselves are members of those communities
when you decide how to proceed with SMP.
11:54:58 Thank you for your time and consideration.
11:54:59 Thank you, Miss Thompson. We have a couple more members with us digitally. We'll go to Tyler followed by Darlene followed by Jan.
11:55:06 So Mr. Edgar, the floor is yours. Oh, followed by Steve. Oh. Not a mister.
11:55:17 Yeah. Tyler, take it away. Yeah.
11:55:15 That's okay. Totally fine. It's having my whole life. And I'm actually here to read this statement on behalf of Ralph Riccio.
11:55:24 My name is Ralph Richio and I'm the owner of Moonlight Oyster Company on Murrow Stone Island.
11:55:29 I am sorry I am unable to attend the County Commissioner meeting as I am traveling to Maine to introduce my new baby to my family and friends back east.
11:55:38 For the past few months I have been following the Planning Commission's S and P process. I attended the last planning commission meeting on November fifteenth to share my thoughts
and perspective.
11:55:47 As a small farmer, I am well aware of what it takes to get a permit for a shellfish farm and run a small operation.
11:55:54 It took me 3 years to secure all the necessary permits for my one and a half acre farm. The S and P has passed as far from perfect and from my perspective requires additional
changes to avoid redundancies in the permitting process and clarify potentially prohibitive requirements for small farmers.
11:56:13 However, I do want to applaud the planning commission for their efforts to incorporate and put from farmers and other stakeholders.
11:56:20 There were many perspectives about aquaculture buffers and other topics shared during the course of the process.
11:56:27 The Planning Commission's effort to acknowledge various needs in the community did not go unnoticed. To that end, I want to note that as a small shellfish farmer in Jefferson
County, whose livelihood depends on aquaculture.
11:56:40 Okay.
11:56:40 I would support you approving the SMP as it is and sending it to ecology during your meeting on December the eleventh today.
11:56:48 However, if you do decide to host a public comment period and review some of the details, there are changes that myself and likely other farmers would like to see in order to
clarify and improve.
11:56:59 The permitting process so that farmers of all sizes are able to operate in Jefferson County. Changes that would support and reflect the state's commitment to shellfish farming
being preferred use of tide lands.
11:57:10 Thank you for your consideration. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to be in touch.
11:57:17 And if you'd like to visit the farm, I would love to have you. Ralph Riccio, owner, Moonlight Oyster Company.
11:57:20 Okay.
11:57:21 Thank you, Ms. Edgar, for reading Ralph's comment. I just doing a little time check here.
11:57:26 We've got 3 more people online. Quite a few more online. All right. Are you okay going a few minutes past 12?
11:57:33 You have a 1230 meetings past 12. You have a 1230 meeting. Okay, let's okay.
11:57:40 So we'll go a little past 12 to make sure everyone gets a chance to be heard so we'll go a little past 12 to make sure everyone gets a chance to be heard so we'll go to Darlene.
11:57:44 Yeah, maybe let's hold it. We're gonna have to hold you tight to 2Â min at this point.
11:57:48 So. We can go ahead Darling.
11:57:48 Yeah. Can you hear me? Okay, thank you. I'm from Clown County and there's a reason I'm calling in today, but I want to quickly say the plastics.
11:58:12 Okay.
11:58:02 See weed and sediment are big issues. And are terribly detrimental, by the industry that has over 9, 900 sites.
11:58:16 2 thirds of our coastlines are covered by these shelfish, fish farms in Washington state.
11:58:24 And we've lost. So much wildlife. Habitat. Because of this and there is very little federal oversight.
11:58:37 In fact, there is a legal case now. Against one of the federal governments because they're not overseeing.
11:58:45 And I can attest that the core. Once they give their permit they're not overseeing anything.
11:58:55 But we have a democracy. The public should be guaranteed oversight. And input. It's very expensive to have to keep.
11:59:06 It's expensive for the public. Have to keep appealing and they shouldn't that should not be their burden they should have the right to a public hearing.
11:59:17 This is a. The waters no no boundaries, so we have. See you peace in Cleveland and Kitsap and Mason and other counties.
11:59:31 And that should be what Jefferson County does. We should have conditional use permits. For this industry so people can speak and that we have.
11:59:46 One kind of permit across our adjoining waters. You might want to. Understand. I'm done. Okay.
11:59:54 Thanks, Miss Chanfield. We'll keep you wrap it up. Okay, thank you so much.
11:59:59 Thank you very much for.
11:59:59 All right, we're trying to hold people to 2Â min now just because we still have quite a few people.
12:00:04 Mr. Ditmar, are you still with us? Steve?
12:00:09 We lost him. We'll go to, Jan. Jan Wald and then we'll go to Michael after that and hopefully Steve can get back in and Lisa after Michael.
12:00:20 Okay.
12:00:20 Go ahead, Jen.
12:00:21 I'm Jan Wold and I've lived on Shine Road next to Hood Canal for 10 years.
12:00:27 I really support having a hearing on this SMP. It's important to realize 20% of all Washington tide lands and 19% of hood canal tide lands were under permit for shellfish farms
10 years ago.
12:00:40 According to the Army Corps of Engineers. Increasing to somewhere around 30% now. Goodup farming is the most destructive type of shellfish farming.
12:00:50 It's usually located in estuaries. That are extremely important ecologically and have many threatened and endangered species.
12:00:56 I, the impact increases as the number of shellfish forms continue to rise, yet there is supposed to be no net loss of ecological function.
12:01:05 I can think of no other county project that would be more negatively impactful than a GUI duck farm or an expansion of one.
12:01:13 I urge you to require a standard conditional use permit with a hearing before a neutral hearing examiner for new GUI depth farms and all conversions and expansions.
12:01:22 I encourage you to have a hearing to listen to the public. 91 of my Shine Road neighbors and neighbors from Discovery Bay signed a letter to strongly support this approach for
GUI duck form permitting.
12:01:34 This process allows for an opportunity for everyone to be heard. To share their knowledge of the area and ensure sufficient scientific data is in the record to make an appropriate
site decision.
12:01:44 This also keeps our GUI duck permitting consistent with the approved SMPs and neighboring Kitsap and Colin counties.
12:01:51 We do often hear about how important these farms are for jobs and money for our county. However, the GUI dip farm next to where I live on Shine Road that plants in native eel
gras.
12:02:02 Pays $273 a year in property taxes for their 4 acre commercial business. I pay 68 times more than that for my house and 6 acres.
12:02:12 And my one acre that's a separate tax payment is $3,500 a year. Just to give you some perspective.
12:02:18 All the GUI ducks here are hauled to Seatac Airport and sold to China.
12:02:24 Okay.
12:02:23 I know of no taxes going to Jefferson County. And the state of Washington. But we certainly do have impacts to our estuaries, eel grass, fisheries, and the loss of commercial
and recreational fishing and tourism.
12:02:36 Thanks.
12:02:36 Thank you, Jan. All right, I see Steve's back with us. So we'll go to Mr. Ditmar and then we'll go to Michael and then Lisa Carlton.
12:02:43 Take it away, Steve.
12:02:46 Oh, we can't hear you. I don't, you don't seem to be muted, but not, not hearing it.
12:02:56 Nice frozen. Alright, Steve, keep trying. We're gonna come back to you and get you heard.
12:03:02 We're going to go to Michael real quick. Michael, you have 2Â min. Thanks.
12:03:03 Thank you. I don't need that. I just want to support the motion that was made to have a public hearing.
12:03:10 Thank you. I'll save my comments for the public hearing. Thank you.
12:03:14 Thank you, Michael. Appreciate it. Okay, we'll go to Lisa Karl.
12:03:18 Well, actually, let's take, take, take, Steve, how you doing? No, maybe he's thinking about it.
12:03:24 Alright, we'll go to Lisa Carlton. Lisa, you have 2Â min to share your thoughts.
12:03:31 Thank you. Oh, we can't see it. You'll have to turn off the blur if you want us to see the paper.
12:03:32 Oh, darn, I was hoping that would show up. Yeah, I do. This is a great article on micro plastics, but, it's not gonna work.
12:03:42 Anyway, it's showing up as a blur. Alright, I'll try and get this down to 2Â min.
12:03:48 Good morning. Thank you. Oh, this afternoon is afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to comment regarding the draft SNP that was approved by the Planning Commission.
12:03:58 My name is Lisa Karl-solong. I work for the Steel family that owns and runs Rock Point Oyster Company.
12:04:05 We have been in business since 1921 and our honored to hold the first permit issued by the Washington State Department of Health when permitting began in the state.
12:04:18 Myself and steals have been tracking and engaged in the process for months. And doing the best we can to keep up with the process.
12:04:25 Even as we manage our operations. That's the reason why I'm here and not there because we are working.
12:04:33 The SNP that was passed by the plan commission isn't perfect for shellfish farmers, but is improved from where it started earlier this year.
12:04:45 At this point, Though there are items we would we want to see change from point to oyster company would be comfortable with you approving the SNP and sending it to college.
12:04:58 You, without going through a public comment period, but that's changed now. The planning commission provided opportunity for input and spent significant time listening to the
public and shellfish farmers.
12:05:15 I do want to know that we have changes. We would request to give. Yeah, they've been given the opportunity.
12:05:25 These include removing, permitting. Redundancies that exist in the SNP as well as the state federal process that exist removing or at the very least clarifying the visual and
analysis for requirement in the permitting process.
12:05:46 Okay.
12:05:44 Asking that the county to use the states recommended. Okay, 2Â min. Alright, thank you for your for your time and we'll be seeing your guests later.
12:05:55 Thank you so much for being here, Lisa. Alright. I'm not sure Steve's with us.
12:05:58 You're welcome.
12:06:02 Do we have anyone else online that would like to make public comments on this motion. Steve, I don't see him.
12:06:10 Is he back as a participant now? Now is gone.
12:06:20 And, I've met with Steve, I can tell you what he thinks. Oh, seems back.
12:06:30 Steve, are you able to speak? So you're unmuted, but I don't see an image.
12:06:39 We can hear you. Yep, yep, go ahead Steve.
12:06:38 So if that's the working. Okay, okay, many times drawing in here. Okay, thank you for having holding the, hearing in January to flush this out a bit more.
12:06:54 I've spoken a lot before on the environmental impact and I think there's probably room for a little more expansion on that.
12:07:00 But there's 2 things I want to make today. And that is if you if you dividing out the CUP between new and the Come presupposes that there's that the information on the environmental
static. It's not.
12:07:19 So you have an existing. Farm for 5 years and in knowledge it doesn't sit still. So you've got you learn more about.
12:07:33 We lost last year again Steve. I think the message received and we'll, we have reviewed your, your written comment as well. All right.
12:07:44 Hi, can you guys hear me?
12:07:42 Roxanne, Julian. If you can. We can hear you. Yeah, you have 2Â min.
12:07:48 Okay. I came in the meeting kind of late. What are the, federal or The, I guess, the tribal fishing rights.
12:08:00 On standing on all this.
12:08:06 Okay.
12:08:03 They're unaffected, but, the, the type did. It's not really a dialogue right now.
12:08:10 We just kind of want to know if you think that we should hold a hearing, but the The recommendation.
12:08:15 Okay.
12:08:12 Yes, I think you can hold it. I think we should hold a public hearing.
12:08:20 Thank you, Greg.
12:08:18 Thank you, Roxanne. And Yup, when we're when we get all the public comment, we'll ask Joshua reiterate what I thought I heard him say about the the tribal perspective on this
work.
12:08:30 Alright, thank you very much.
12:08:30 Alright, Anyone else online like to make public comment today? You can click raise hand or star 9 if you're on the phone.
12:08:39 Anyone else who hasn't talked to in the room? I think we got everyone in the room has had, say.
12:08:44 No other hands online. Okay. With that, I'll close public comment and we did have one question, Josh.
12:08:52 Can you address Roxanne's question about, I guess, where the tribes are on the draft.
12:08:57 We're considering. Thanks. I can only say defendively that one tribe, Jamestown, Scalom tribe, which had participated throughout the process, providing written comments at more
than one appears to be satisfied with the current version based on the correspondence that you received.
12:09:13 There was, the Port Campbell's Column Tribe staff followed the process but I don't remember comments being made.
12:09:20 And I don't remember any comments from other tribes. So I certainly wouldn't propose to speak for them in terms of usual in the custom treaty rights or shell fishing.
12:09:32 Those are certainly part of all DNR leases that happen. I stood on the Parkland and I would imagine through the federal process at least.
12:09:39 Be part of any consideration for other operations that are proposed on private timelines.
12:09:46 All right. Well, we're late already. We have a robust at 6Â min any more. Response to public comment or discussion that you want to have before. No question.
12:10:02 I just want to say that my desire to have a public hearing is more about The elongated process and I hear that a lot of people have given input and I hear that we're hearing
a lot of the same comments, but.
12:10:10 I also feel like. We're a little bit trying to get people back in the habit of making comments and people who might.
12:10:19 You know, need more time to get. Clued in that we're taking comments on things so it might not be different comments, but I I don't know, it's part of the process.
12:10:29 I feel like I'm waking. Civic engagement backup. How about if we get 10 comments on the budget?
12:10:35 We're going to pass this week this afternoon. Before we get there, then we'll have it here.
12:10:39 But I, I understand because I read a lot of the most of the documents that were sent to me, how much work has gone into this.
12:10:47 And I appreciate all the work of the Planning Commission on all the work of staff. On this and my desire for a public hearing isn't about the work that's been done.
12:10:57 It's about community engagement. Yeah, the public hasn't heard. Right. Comments we have.
12:11:08 Planning commission has the chamber or echo chamber that is, you know, our how we tend to work and communicate these days that but.
12:11:11 The public has not. So I. You know wanna make good the enemy of perfect, right? Yes.
12:11:19 Okay. With that, let's call the question. All in favor of the motion on the floor to schedule a hearing to review the recommendations for the SNP indicate by saying aye.
12:11:30 Aye. All opposed? Me. Okay.
12:11:33 That motion passes. So, Josh, please direct staff to work with the clerk's office to, to schedule a hearing on this schedule that you outlined.
12:11:41 So. Thank you everyone for being here. Thank you to Burt, Amy and Lisa for all your work through 3 years, 4 years now on.
12:11:48 So appreciate it. Everyone's efforts and we'll get to roll it into 24 to be continued one more year all right thank you everyone and just a few weeks yeah yes with that we are
recessed until.
12:12:09 We are gonna have to stop this meeting because there's another meeting scheduled in this room at 1230.
12:12:11 We are going to have to stop this meeting because there's another meeting scheduled in this room at 1230.
12:12:17 We'll be back at 1 30, but we are going properly into an executive session for an hour.
09:09:29 From Chambers To Everyone:
Note: There will be another comment period after the Shoreline Master Program (SMP) update discussion at 10:30 a.m.
09:45:06 From Chambers To Dr. Allison Berry (she/they) and All Panelists:
Hi Dr. Berry - the Commissioners are running behind and currently wrapping up Board of Equalization interviews.
09:48:49 From Chambers To G. Daniel Bugel-Shunra and All Panelists:
Hi G. Daniel - the Commissioners do not currently have a public comment period. If this is in regards to the SMP, there is a comment period for that at 10:30 am
11:52:51 From Chambers To Greg Brotherton(Privately):
Can you ask Josh to provide an email address to direct questions re: SMP, for those not familiar with the process
12:04:10 From Chambers To Steve Dittmar(Privately):
You can type your comment here Steve
12:14:15 From Chambers To Everyone:
You will need to rejoin this meeting at 1:30 p.m. I will be restarting this zoom link at 1:30 p.m.