HomeMy WebLinkAboutchat09:41:07 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message) : Julia Cochrane has her hand raised
10:38:00 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message) : Bill Graham with PUD is now present, and some other members. I made you co-host if you'd like to bring them over, if needed
10:38:47 From Kate Dean to Chambers(Direct Message) : Thx
11:25:33 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message) : FYI - since we have nothing on the agenda at 1:30 p.m., you can continue BOCC Briefing to fill in that 1/2 hour gap before the
SMP at 2pm
14:00:22 From Mark McCauley to Chambers(Direct Message) : bring over Josh and consultants?
14:00:38 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message) : on it ð
14:29:50 From Chambers to Lisa BERK Consulting(Direct Message) : Can you email me the presentation - for the record please? Carolyn@co.jefferson.wa.us
14:30:11 From Josh Peters, DCD to Hosts and panelists : https://www.codepublishing.com/WA/JeffersonCounty/#!/JeffersonCounty18/JeffersonCounty1840.html#18.40.520
14:32:06 From Chambers : https://www.codepublishing.com/WA/JeffersonCounty/#!/JeffersonCounty18/JeffersonCounty1840.html#18.40.520
15:02:32 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Hosts and panelists : WAC 173-26-241(3)(b) - does reference no net loss: (b) Aquaculture.
(i) General provisions.
(A) Aquaculture is the culture or farming of fish, shellfish, or other aquatic plants and animals. Aquaculture does not include the harvest of wild geoduck associated with the state
managed wildstock geoduck fishery.
This activity is of statewide interest. Properly managed, it can result in long-term over short-term benefit and can protect the resources and ecology of the shoreline. Aquaculture is
dependent on the use of the water area and, when consistent with control of pollution and prevention of damage to the environment, is a preferred use of the water area. Local government
should consider local ecological conditions and provide limits and conditions to assure appropriate compatible types of aquaculture for the local conditions as necessary to assure no
net loss of ecological functions.
15:12:52 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Hosts and panelists : Above Table 18.25.440 regarding aquaculture application requirements and state/federal agencies: To minimize redundancy,
the county shall accept supporting permit applications and studies required by state and federal agencies that fulfill one or more of the requirements in subsections (a) through (e).
15:26:02 From Mark McCauley to Hosts and panelists : 25% expansion of a 100 acre farm is 25 new acres. A 25% expansion of a 20 acre farm would be 5 acres. Treat them the same? 25
versus 5?
15:28:14 From Josh Peters, DCD to Hosts and panelists : Reminder of background info: https://test.co.jefferson.wa.us/WeblinkExternal/0/edoc/4886684/2023%2010%2030%20Memo%20-%20Aquaculture%20and%20
Conditional%20Use%20Permits.pdf
15:35:04 From Chambers : WAC 173-26-241(3)(b) - does reference no net loss: (b) Aquaculture.
(i) General provisions.
(A) Aquaculture is the culture or farming of fish, shellfish, or other aquatic plants and animals. Aquaculture does not include the harvest of wild geoduck associated with the state
managed wildstock geoduck fishery.
This activity is of statewide interest. Properly managed, it can result in long-term over short-term benefit and can protect the resources and ecology of the shoreline. Aquaculture is
dependent on the use of the water area and, when consistent with control of pollution and prevention of damage to the environment, is a preferred use of the water area. Local government
should consider local ecological conditions and provide limits and conditions to assure appropriate compatible types of aquaculture for the local conditions as necessary to assure no
net loss of ecological functions.
15:35:16 From Chambers : Above Table 18.25.440 regarding aquaculture application requirements and state/federal agencies: To minimize redundancy, the county shall accept supporting
permit applications and studies required by state and federal agencies that fulfill one or more of the requirements in subsections (a) through (e).
15:35:32 From Chambers : Reminder of background info: https://test.co.jefferson.wa.us/WeblinkExternal/0/edoc/4886684/2023%2010%2030%20Memo%20-%20Aquaculture%20and%20Conditional%20Use%20Permits.pdf
09:01:53 The.
09:01:58 Yes. She was very chatty with me. It's not here right now. Thank you.
09:02:13 Yeah. She was at the shelter the other day when I was serving soup and very chatty I have Right.
09:02:30 And there's the bell. Let's just go by that bell.
09:02:37 Get over to the agenda.
09:02:45 Wait and on my agenda to load. I'm afraid it won't. Really? I don't think for any of us.
09:02:56 I have it up, but I had it happen.
09:02:58 I was you could get in to the copy off the calendar. Thank you. Do we think it might come back up?
09:03:11 Cause I suspect we'll need it at something. Yeah, because it's been about 15Â min or so now since I last puzzle shit to make sure those 2 documents were on there.
09:03:20 It was fine until that. Yeah, it was fine. Until that. Yeah.
09:03:27 And what time did you do that? Alright, well good morning everyone. I'll call this meeting of the Jefferson County Board of Commissioners to order.
09:03:32 If you are looking for our agenda, it's going to take just a couple minutes to reload.
09:03:38 So apologies. We're going analog here with paper myself. So, hope everybody stayed relatively warm and safe this weekend.
09:03:49 What a perfect storm that was. And I suspect we'll have an opportunity to talk a little bit more about it, but just wanna shout out to the road crew and the PD and folks running
the various shelters around the county and community centers and warming centers, who else people on the roads offering, you know, rides and towing.
09:04:12 Just, you know, the, But it's always surprising in times like this that, you know, it just, we think that.
09:04:20 You know hardship is is, all challenging, but it actually brings up the best in people and it's, really heartwarming to see how much people want to help.
09:04:30 So. Thank you to especially our, accounting road crew. It's just been. Working around the clock on a holiday weekend trying to keep our roads safe.
09:04:40 So. Anything else before we dive in? Anyone wanna? No, I mean, I was getting a couple of comments about the roads and that Monty sent that helpful email saying the The.
09:04:53 Amount of water that came down and then the speed at which it froze was the real issue and why.
09:04:59 Why this situation got the way it did so fast. So I think. It would be helpful. To explain that to folks so that they know why.
09:05:10 Why it's different than it's been before. Why there's less maybe sand or salt, you know, and they're all the comments were.
09:05:17 I was feeling like it was a lot of negative comments and I'm like, hey, we're doing our best.
09:05:23 Yeah, yeah, I think that perfect storm of the snow coming down right as so many people were driving home.
09:05:33 2 means that it immediately got compacted before, and then froze and it was like an ice skating rink.
09:05:37 Yeah. And public works always says one size is on the road. There is very little that ploughs always says one size is on the road. There is very little that plows can do.
09:05:43 It was too cold for ice to be working. Sand only does so much and it disappears so it's they were doing what they could, but it's limited tools and this wet snow that we, you
know, get.
09:05:55 Relatively infrequently. My favorite thing I saw this weekend was on a video of a friend. Ice skating on the pond at the golf course.
09:06:06 I was like, Gary, I didn't know you were such a fantastic ice skater. So.
09:06:10 Let's just, did you go skating? I didn't. I, I don't have skates that fit me.
09:06:16 Or, okay. So I need to get you some. Alright, well let's jump into public comments as usual.
09:06:26 We Really appreciate hearing from the public on any issue. We ask that you keep a public comment to 3Â min.
09:06:36 We have nobody in the room with us today. So we will rely on online. Anybody on zoom can hit the raise hand button or on the phone hit star 9.
09:06:47 We will bring you over and you get a request to be promoted to panelists. Please accept it.
09:06:51 On mute, turn off your camera if you like. And you have up to 3Â min to speak.
09:06:58 Great. Good morning, Michele Walter.
09:07:03 Let's see.
09:07:06 We can hear you.
09:07:09 Oh, hello. Hi, I'm Marilyn Show Walter. I'm Shine Road at the last.
09:07:18 At the end of the public hearing, Commissioner Dean asked about the Sea Grant studies. I wanted to say just a word about them.
09:07:26 Which is mainly that if you want to draw any conclusions at all from these 2 studies, should be in the context of a hearing examiner process.
09:07:38 Where you can really get into the weeds and evaluate it in respect of a specific site. These studies looked at 3 plots all in South Sound.
09:07:53 There was nothing in Hood Canal, nothing in Discovery Bay. Nothing in all of Jefferson County.
09:07:59 These 3 plots were 6 tenths of an acre each with a comparable control site. That is minuscule if you're trying to have any broad implications of all the feuded sound.
09:08:14 It would be like the 3 of you commissioners. I asked you like who likes milk in their coffee and decide based on what the 3 of you have decided I try to project it onto all
of Seattle.
09:08:27 But it's even, not worse than that. It's just less relevant to a specific sites, for example, where I live.
09:08:37 There was not a single mention of marble more or less. We have those and we had them in Squamish Harbor. I videotaped them.
09:08:49 I have not seen them since harvesting began. Just a second. We, there's no mention of sand dollars, for example, except to say they're rare down there.
09:09:02 We had a wonderful colony of sand dollars that is now gone. A sand dollar colony is a wonder to behold.
09:09:11 But they live right where a goi ducks are. You will not find sand dollars in the same location as PVC tubes.
09:09:19 Now there's a sand dollar colony that moved. Down the town toward the bridge. And somebody wants to have a shellfish farm there.
09:09:28 My point is that These kinds of issues are very sight-specific. And should be evaluated in the context of a fair process.
09:09:40 The job of the commissioners is to set up that fair process. And that is the standard CUP.
09:09:48 Thank you.
09:09:48 Hmm. Thank you, Marilyn. I'm getting some feedback that people aren't able to join because AV is not, oh.
09:10:00 Up so they're not able to see the link so I wonder if we should recess until that loads.
09:10:07 From their time. Did they try getting refreshing? I'm getting refreshing. Not going for me either. I was wondering why nobody is on. We have almost no public.
09:10:19 I'm also hearing that serious lag and choppy feeds. Whatever that means.
09:10:26 Like a 10Â min recess. Yeah, I want to say probably in longer. I was wondering why nobody is on.
09:10:40 Hmm. Stand by, please. We're considering taking a recess since the public's having a hard time joining.
09:10:55 We only see one or 2 members of the public here. So. Guessing that they're having the same AV capture issue.
09:11:04 We are.
09:11:12 Somebody just joined by phone.
09:11:16 Might be. That.
09:11:22 They have their hand raised so let's see what they have to say. Alright, Caller, I'm gonna bring you over.
09:11:32 Would love to, hear if you had trouble joining Zoom. Okay.
09:11:37 Is that you, Jean?
09:11:40 Yeah, can you hear me?
09:11:42 We can, yes.
09:11:45 Oh, miracle. Holy smoke. So no zoom can't. Speak through AV.
09:11:51 Dial in with kind of a pain. Oh, I'm, you know, probably not the only one having this problem.
09:12:00 Okay.
09:11:59 Okay, you know, I think because you're having problems that means other people are which means we should recess and try and get AV fixed.
09:12:08 That'd be great. That'd be great. Thank you.
09:12:10 Okay, great. So sorry to put you off, but I think we should. I think we should recess.
09:12:18 Alright.
09:12:16 Okay, so we're gonna recess. Let's, we'll check back in in 10Â min and hopefully AV capture will be up and running and give folks a chance to join.
09:12:25 Apologies.
09:12:28 Thank you. Until
09:23:05 Hmm. Restart.
09:23:09 Starting
09:23:14 Hey everyone. Sorry for the delay. We're gonna come back into session, although we're still troubleshooting a little bit.
09:23:21 Some of us are able to pull up the agenda and some are not. The concern is we don't want to.
09:23:28 If the public doesn't have access to the Zoom link. Especially since nobody is in the chambers.
09:23:33 We're gonna come back into session although we're still troubleshooting. Some of us Do that.
09:23:44 So just awkwardly wait with us while we see if we can troubleshoot.
09:24:05 I see the agenda but no links. Oh, I'm sure there's the 2 links that had issues.
09:24:13 And I didn't know that this weekend. So, So they republish it with the 2 documents gone.
09:24:22 This morning I thought, well, I'll add them back in. But those documents have issues and they're developer to look at and they can't figure out why.
09:24:29 Oh, laser features then. But to, to see them, you have to wait. All right.
09:24:42 So I guess telling everybody who's on here. Less than useful because you all found your way here.
09:24:48 But the agenda is back up on. AV capture you will notice that the documents are no longer linked because that's what was causing the problem.
09:25:04 But at the top of the agenda, it talks about how to access all of the items through leisure fish.
09:25:06 So please look at kind of the second paragraph down. I'm gonna have to get in there myself.
09:25:13 So. We will extend public comment and hope that more of the public is able to find us now.
09:25:25 Any, anything else before we resume?
09:25:28 I can bring Denver over. Okay. So anyone who wishes to provide public comment, please hit the raise hand button.
09:25:35 And accept promotion to panelists.
09:25:45 Nobody from the public here other than It's just a couple. Yeah. Deborah, if you accept promotion to panelist.
09:25:55 We would be glad to have you provide comments. She's at.
09:26:08 Good morning.
09:26:05 Hi, this is Deborah. And I had just. Raise my hand to say that Zoom was working for me.
09:26:14 Because I use the link that the typical link for this meeting and I had saved that to my calendar.
09:26:21 So I don't, other than that, I don't have other comments. But I'm not able to see the agenda, even though you said it had come up on AV capture.
09:26:30 Deborah, if you try refreshing. Your screen, does that?
09:26:35 I did that.
09:26:37 Doesn't work for me either. Okay. Alright, thank you Gold Star for saving link in your calendar.
09:26:49 Right. Right.
09:26:45 Okay. Just so everybody knows it's the same link. Every week. Good, good thing to have on hand.
09:26:54 Great. Okay, thank you.
09:27:01 We wanna consult with Mr. They see him on there. Hmm. Might have gotten pulled into something else.
09:27:15 And I, I can see the agenda now. So you know, on AV capture and us.
09:27:28 The SCC in the packets, yep. Hmm.
09:27:35 I'm caught up now. I can see it too. I had to refresh the, root of the AV capture page.
09:27:44 I got back. Yeah, you have to refresh the main page. Okay, yeah, I closed my browser and reopened it.
09:27:52 But again, telling everybody who is on, it's not very helpful. Miss Ball, welcome.
09:28:00 Go ahead.
09:28:02 You can.
09:28:04 Do you want to hear Jean?
09:28:06 Yes.
09:28:01 I can you hear me? Like. My goodness, the jumping jacks. So nothing was working or the agenda wasn't there the zoom link wasn't there because the agenda wasn't there that I
couldn't you know the AV you can't you know you know how this worked anyway you know I live in the sticks but So.
09:28:24 I, Wanna say a couple of things. I think you'll move between lines, so here it goes.
09:28:33 It's okay to disagree on things. So long as we're basing our decisions on facts, not on emotional responses.
09:28:41 We should be basing our decisions on the facts and the truth. Not lies and misinformation. It is okay to adjust your position when you receive updated information which changes
your previously held beliefs or understandings.
09:28:59 I would argue that it is necessary. To adjust upon receipt of new information. The gentrification of Jefferson County is having a real impact on the longtime residents.
09:29:13 People are being taxed into oblivion. I just wanted to remind you that service to all the people.
09:29:21 Not just a small group is what you were elected for.
09:29:27 The biggest problem I'm having today is not the fact that many of my neighbors pipes burst this weekend.
09:29:35 Or that I've been without water since Friday morning because the booster pump which lives inside my garage.
09:29:43 Exploded. The fed I'm lugging frozen buckets of water to the wood stove to thaw them for my livestock and songbirds and I hope others will provide liquid water for their songbirds
as well.
09:29:58 My biggest problem today is the fact that this arctic blast produced 2 kittens. That were discarded like trash.
09:30:09 Out into the frigid weather. And I need to find them a new home. So if you know anyone looking for a pair of very friendly, beautiful per balls, please send them my way.
09:30:25 Thank you. You're always full of surprises, Miss Bob. Alright, anyone else wish to provide public comments?
09:30:35 If so, please hit raise hand at the bottom of the screen.
09:30:39 We're star 9 if you're on the phone. I don't see any colors. Hmm.
09:30:46 I'm gonna leave public comment open, maybe through our consent agenda just in case folks had trouble getting online or finding us today.
09:30:56 Any responses? Disjointed. Public comment period.
09:31:03 But also tunic correspondence received. Hmm.
09:31:09 We see a little bit of public comment about the roads and. I think we talked about that at the beginning of our meeting, but the weather conditions on Thursday were really unusual
and a lot of snow and water got laid down quick and froze quickly to create.
09:31:30 Ice skating rinks on all of our roads and that is not a situation that are.
09:31:38 That we can remedy with all the tools we have. But they were able to get out and sand a lot of areas.
09:31:47 And I noticed they were standing intersections more heavily. That was good. So. Grateful for our public works team.
09:31:53 Especially the roads crew and Solid waste too. They're doing the doing the work. And then, and written public comments, we got a lot of comments about.
09:32:07 The shoreline. Shoreline program update and GUI duck farming and we'll be addressing that later this afternoon and then.
09:32:16 In further meetings, but, a lot of good information to read. From folks.
09:32:23 And then, yeah, the existential or the philosophical questions about. How we how we forge a path ahead with important issues and projects.
09:32:32 And our community. Is an area that I think deserves more discussion. Specifically about the projects that are before us and just How we build the right coalitions around the
conversations that we need to have.
09:32:51 Yes. I'll go, one other thing on the roads. I think the roads department always does.
09:32:59 Everything they can and work through the night along with PUD and other agencies. You can always Google Jefferson County, Washington roads, and you can get to the 4 46 slash
road maintenance operations and report something with your road if there's a plowing that you think is not being addressed.
09:33:20 In the right order of things, of course we always look out and, you know. My roads not clear, so something's not going right, but they're working through issues from the top
down of the priorities they know but I do encourage people to report it on that website on the county website.
09:33:39 Nice. I would almost call that spoken word from his ball today. I thought it was pretty, pretty nicely, phrased.
09:33:45 I don't, we don't probably, A room for more kittens, but we also have frozen waters out of the stick.
09:33:52 So Understand the challenges that are going on for people all over the place and
09:33:58 You know, stay with it. Use your neighbors, talk to your friends that we were helped out by a neighbor this weekend and as Kate said at the head of the meeting, it's great that.
09:34:09 You know, times of challenge or also the times of, often the great giving. They're the real human nature that we like to see on display.
09:34:18 Michelle Walter and Miss Wald who sent some extensive written comments. Appreciate it.
09:34:24 We will talk about the GUI Doc on the S and PA little bit later today.
09:34:29 So although not taking public comment. Not taking public comment today or testimony just kinda discuss it and next week we're gonna kinda wrap it up as a plan right or make
a recommendation.
09:34:44 Until February, Yeah, so we're deliverations next week. Yeah, Josh will be looking for guidance regarding the ordinance.
09:34:53 And Gotcha. Right. Yeah, but no other responsible comment. Alright.
09:35:01 Just couple things from me. The steering committee for the Aquatic Center still has not.
09:35:11 We've had a hard time finding a time that works for everyone and we really want everyone there. So apologies.
09:35:15 We don't have anything to report back. Yet. The only report I have on that, Kate, is that I expect to have the contract with commerce for the independent financial review.
09:35:26 On your agenda and next Monday. And hopefully we will have a. Meeting on our calendar or under our belt by then.
09:35:37 It's. Yeah, eagerly awaiting that meeting. And. Oh, couple of things just so the public knows.
09:35:49 So on Friday I used my KPTZ radio time to focus on kind of emergency response and the last minute Willie and Monty were able to join.
09:36:02 And give him a up to the minute update on status of things. Which is really helpful, but I'm also called around to a lot of our neighboring jurisdictions and just want to remind
folks.
09:36:11 Cherished Crown Miller from Only Cap, reminded me and I think this is still true. The community centers are able to be a resource for folks if they need.
09:36:20 A place to, you know, charge their phones. Get warm and also get some help. So if folks are struggling.
09:36:29 Keep in mind that the community centers are a good place to go and ask for resources. She also wanted me to remind folks that, you know, there is the energy assistance program
through LA Cap.
09:36:40 They can, people can look online and see if they are eligible for that and to not skimp on energy use right now for fear of.
09:36:48 The bills that they will incur because it's, you know, unsafe.
09:36:52 Obviously we're past the worst of the dangerous temperatures but I thought those were good reminders I forget about those resources too.
09:37:00 So,
09:37:03 Let's see. I don't think I have anything else. I'm looking forward to our conversation on Shoreline Master Program later today.
09:37:15 That's all. Can we reiterate that if folks are struggling to find things on the agenda, they can go into the laser fish link at the top of the agenda that is published now.
09:37:24 Which says County Jefferson Y and you have to kinda dive through it but you can get to all the materials for today.
09:37:33 Alright, anyone else wish to provide public comments? I know there's not a lot of you on here but Welcome to hit raise hand.
09:37:42 I think we've heard from almost everyone. Alright, let's take a look at, the consent agenda.
09:37:47 Anyone have anything they'd like to? Call out, discuss. Good stuff on there.
09:37:59 I was a little serious about the so The auditor's office is gonna help the Portland Adrian's district manage their own election.
09:38:07 Yes, which is an in person election. I go and check that out. I'm sure it'll lower cost.
09:38:14 So is the auditors office? Are you familiar with this at all? A little bit. I've talked a little bit about it.
09:38:22 Am I forgetting the name of the board that certifies elections? Canvassing board, last week, so talk a little bit about it.
09:38:30 Okay, great. So that means that that canvassing boy that you're gonna have to do probably isn't gonna happen because they're doing it there, right?
09:38:36 I guess. Hello. Yeah, I'd love to hear just, you know, from my own. Right. I didn't know they could do it.
09:39:01 We had one concern note I think you received from from our previous CLDD district member. So I'm sure knowing that the auditor's office is there to help ensure, you know, a
fair election, Are you available to give a little background for us on in person elections?
09:39:13 Sorry to put you on the spot.
09:39:14 I am a little bit. Of course that's not how we conduct most election. So this is This is new for.
09:39:23 For me as auditor and as the election coordinator, I think the last time that there was an election.
09:39:31 For the Port Ludlow doing a district was back in 2,014 and it was done by all mail.
09:39:35 So I think they are trying to reduce the costs. So we are the supervisor of their election, but they are conducting it.
09:39:44 And we will be able to issue absentees if. If they're requested. It's not automatic that they will get about it.
09:39:52 They have to actually request it in person or by mail.
09:39:57 Interesting. Okay, and otherwise people will go down to the pulling place and cast a vote the old fashioned way.
09:40:02 That's right, yes.
09:40:04 And again, this is only for the port let alone drainage district. So yeah.
09:40:07 Correct. And that is. February.
09:40:15 Yes, February sixth and then of course we have a special elections for poor school districts on the next Tuesday, which is February thirteenth.
09:40:28 Alright.
09:40:29 We have a lot of election stuff going on right now.
09:40:33 Great. And we, the canvassing board updated the elections manual. So if anyone's interested in seeing the new and improved elections manual, Quinn grow our elections.
09:40:49 Yes, she did.
09:40:46 Coordinator put a ton of work into that. So thank you to Quinn. Brenda, can I just, how do people get notified that there is an in person election?
09:40:57 Do they get a postcard or something or?
09:41:00 There is we are publishing a notice in the the leader I think it's January.
09:41:11 Whatever by lie, I don't have it up here, but, it will be published in the leader and I do think the Portland Lodrange District is putting in their local.
09:41:20 Newsletters and they're posting it. It's going to be held at the beach club that day and I think there's from like no to 6.
09:41:33 Can't remember the exact time. So, it's not, when we have election day, it's from, you know, 8 30 am to 8 pm.
09:41:41 There's, by law had to be like a 6Â h.
09:41:46 In place had to be open for 6Â h. So they they established the place and the time. And they're gonna have 3.
09:41:55 3. Qualified voters serve as their board. And part of this contract is, they wanted one, which would probably be Quinn, one election person out there, supervising.
09:42:11 Okay.
09:42:11 And then our office will actually tell you the ballots probably the next day. And certification is a little different too.
09:42:21 I don't think, we have to have an actual board to certify this type of election.
09:42:26 I think our office certifies it.
09:42:31 Okay.
09:42:30 Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. We wanted to countywide PFD, ballot, but we're concerned about costs.
09:42:39 We could do an in person I don't think that's a great idea.
09:42:40 You know, a lot of this is by like an older RCW. So, you know, a lot of this is by like an older RCW.
09:42:51 So, you know, a lot of is it's not been updated so they could conduct it by, or by mail or by in person and they chose the in person.
09:42:58 I don't know. If the other elections have that. Opportunity to choose.
09:43:02 Hmm. Okay, well it'd be interesting experiment. Thanks for the background. Yes.
09:43:09 Thank you. Auditor Huntingford. Sorry to be bouncing around folks.
09:43:13 I'm gonna go back to public comments, said so many people had a hard time joining.
09:43:19 I know that someone's still not able to hear, but it seems like everything's working on this end at this point, right?
09:43:23 Yeah, let's find out. Ms. Cochran will bring you over. You probably missed our earlier praising of You and others for doing the important work you were doing this weekend.
09:43:38 Glad you're able to join us.
09:43:40 Hi, and I am one of the people called I can't get A, B captured to work, but I'm on zoom and that's what the staff told me they can access you on zoom.
09:43:50 So you're able to capture stuff, there's no audio. Anyway. Well, I was going to start this by saying we just finished our last night as an overnight 24Â h warming center for
this moment.
09:44:05 But due to current weather alert and conversation with emergency management and staff. We will be open tonight as well.
09:44:13 We have seen over 50 individuals in a day and at night we're sleeping about the amount of people that winter shelter is no longer allowing to stay there since they were only
half open.
09:44:24 Most of the people that we're seeing. We're not under the influence of any substance. There's a person with open hernia and a heart condition who can hardly move.
09:44:34 There were several walkers and a wheelchair. There is somebody with obvious Parkinson's and the sweetest dog in the world.
09:44:40 And there are people under obvious mental distress. What we've all watched move through our space, the Pope Marine building in the last 6 days has been an incredible indictment
of our society.
09:44:53 During the day, the people who hung out all day, the majority of those were women. We saw youth, not children, but youth.
09:45:00 I saw young people who I've known most of their lives, if not all of their lives. These are our local young people, nowhere to go, nowhere to find housing.
09:45:10 We also had the privilege of witnessing was incredible generosity of our community. Hate and Heidi both brought delicious food as did the Shanghai Chinese restaurant.
09:45:19 And many other individuals including my congregation to you. Well, it's sandwiches every day.
09:45:26 We started. Out with an absolute mountain of blankets taller than me and a donation of a dozen sleeping bags.
09:45:33 Other donations came in every day almost every hour. People alone cannot solve this problem. It has to be government.
09:45:40 The government has to insist and assist. The nonprofits, the churches, the various organizations that serve our community.
09:45:48 To take this on and really do provide appropriate places for people to live. This needs to be the number one issue in this community.
09:45:57 That everyone has a safe and reasonable place to live that allows them to preserve their dignity and meet the needs of their body.
09:46:03 We all deserve a room with a door and access to plumbing and food preparation. I'm asking you is my elected representatives to do a declaration that says that this is the community
priority.
09:46:17 That we need to solve this problem locally. I ask that you use your staff and resources to bring state and federal and private resources in to do what is moral and necessary.
09:46:29 And I will be reading this at City Council if that's happening tonight. Thank you.
09:46:36 Thank you. Ms. Cochran. Thank you for all your efforts.
09:46:44 Any response to Ms. Cohen? No, it's just. You know, it was so easy to make soup.
09:46:53 A huge pot of soup and it felt like the, the smallest effort and I. And granted myself the time during making it to think about the bigger problem and we have been taking action.
09:47:09 Through you know funding and Caswall Brown and The whole fairgrounds issue and that was the area of focus and But it's just clear to me that it's not enough, you know, and How
to meet the needs of our community is gonna take more than just us.
09:47:27 But it seems like a good
09:47:30 Especially in these emergency situations having a really clear plan. To make sure that there's enough of everything that people need.
09:47:40 Seems like a good use of. Our resources and our experts and I don't know, I'm not gonna suggest a workshop, but some some conversation that kind of an after action on this storm
maybe or something.
09:47:54 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Julie is right and it's tough and you know, we can do more and we have not done enough obviously the problem exists.
09:48:07 And it's not just the government either, you know, I think of course Julian and the Winter Warwings.
09:48:12 When welcoming shows the importance of bringing the faith community into it. Obviously we've talked about some of the generosity from private individuals and I think that's
critical.
09:48:24 And, and then the, the culture of what is housing, you know, I mean, it comes down back to the American dream and how that doesn't really work as we go forward, you know, that.
09:48:35 Single family house with the picket fence that we're gonna pass on to our kids is something that needs to get.
09:48:44 Re-figured for a future generations, you know, it's, as Miss Cochran talked about, you know.
09:48:50 Youth are impacted in a way that is pretty unacceptable and Yeah, it's just hard to get into the market if you're not in the market.
09:49:00 So affordability means a lot of things. Decoupling the MI from affordability. We get working on that at a state level.
09:49:07 I think that Scott. A lot of momentum behind it right now. So, you know. It's weird to be talking about AMI and affordability when we're Prentice solve the problem of.
09:49:19 People without a safe place to go and live, but I think that's. One of the places we have to look.
09:49:27 Yeah, and it's frustrating because, you know, a lot of our Well, there are limited resources and funds.
09:49:37 And many of them are available for the very population that Ms. Cochran is serving and talking about and it's not nearly enough.
09:49:45 You know, just we talk about the housing ladder and every rung of the ladder is underfunded and there's actually more funds available for the unhoused the unsheltered than there
are for just about any of the other rungs which and of course they're all related to one another.
09:50:02 So yeah, I mean, I feel like we are doing what we can with resources we have available. And hopefully the new emergency shelter which will be built in the next couple of years.
09:50:16 Can help alleviate. Some of the the stressors for this population. But yeah, it's, really challenging for lots of reasons.
09:50:28 It was a lot of different populations of unhoused and unsheltered. And it was it was wonderful to see what Julia and her who created this weekend, you know, and it was.
09:50:40 Again, emergency is kind of bringing out the best in people. Including folks who, you know, often don't want to be in congregate settings, but this was life and death.
09:50:51 You know, some people were there that that can be hard to serve because they typically avoid these kinds of settings.
09:50:59 So yeah, it's a, a wicked problem as they say in the research and, keep trying to, pick it apart.
09:51:09 I'm up with solutions. Huge mountain of gratitude for you, Julia and your team down there.
09:51:16 No, Ben and Ruby were there a lot. Just super grateful for people showing up in the way that they were, I mean.
09:51:25 Above and beyond the call of duty, but. It is the call of duty at this point. Julia's operation there is, is significantly underfunded with public dollars.
09:51:38 So if anyone is interested in helping to support, that effort, there is a, a website you can find it on Facebook pretty easily.
09:51:48 So encourage folks to consider donating there too, Jefferson Interfaith action. Yep. Although I set the website.
09:51:57 It's I'm not gonna get the link quite right, but. Find it on my Facebook.
09:52:02 I've been promoting it. Alright, back to consent agenda. I have a couple of items I wanted to call out.
09:52:10 Anyone else wanna go first on any additional items? One more thing. I just, yeah, wanna note my appreciation for seeing the revising a policy for freeway requests.
09:52:20 So I like seeing that on there. I mean, as I went through it's like, wow, it's expensive, but, you know, absolutely.
09:52:27 This is something that we should be able to take administrative. Credit goes to Barbara, Ehrlichman.
09:52:32 She jumped right on that. All right. Yeah. So thank you, Barbara.
09:52:35 I have a couple questions about it and sorry it's gonna take me a minute to get back to it.
09:52:41 But, The.
09:52:47 I'm a little
09:52:51 Concerned how broad it is. So a couple of things, curious about Mark, and I don't know if we want to bring Barbara over to join a little conversation about this, but the 2 things
I'm concerned about is Are there, you know, without other policies that kind of determine what you can.
09:53:13 Yes, when a waiver can be granted. Or to up to what value? I, worry a little bit that this is really broadly construed and it does also doesn't include the application that
was included.
09:53:33 Doesn't include anything about partial fee waving, which the one policy we do have that I'm familiar with is the temporary food service permit.
09:53:43 And that is for a percentage of the fee and that's not discussed in here so I'm just curious if there's a.
09:53:52 If we need to think about putting any. Additional guardrails in place. Robert is
09:54:13 If you're available to join us, but we'd. We're gonna discuss a little bit about the, hi, thanks for joining us.
09:54:21 Hey, I'm right here. Thanks. Yeah, I think.
09:54:23 We're
09:54:25 This this fee waver policy was just basically the same as we had before except that every fee waver had to go through the board.
09:54:36 And, and that seemed. Unworkable at this point. Just a lot of, extra work for directors who could make those decisions.
09:54:49 And that was kind of the, The thrust of the change was to change the decision maker, but certainly any improvements in the criteria or in the complexity of, you know, looking
at.
09:55:01 Partial fee waivers versus total fee waivers could be included in the in the policy.
09:55:08 Yeah. I think the applicability paragraph. State statisticy waiver policy applies to requests for free waivers, which are not otherwise covered by state, local or federal law.
09:55:21 If, any waiver request policy exists in local county code, that codified policy shall be followed.
09:55:33 Right.
09:55:29 And so I don't think this subjects every fee waver. To delegation. But the only fee waivers that I recall come into this legislative body in my 6 years here were the temporary
food service waivers yeah and that's 25% And so we've been petitioned multiple times though for building affordable housing or something else to wave DCD fees.
09:55:58 So I don't know. That would be a programmatic thing as opposed to
09:56:06 Hmm. Solid waste. We did just have that. We did have a solid waste one.
09:56:12 And there were there's rules for that as well though right there and that they have a policy.
09:56:23 The department. You we could put a cap on it, you know, so if it is over a certain amount.
09:56:30 Back to us. You know, I think we're, we've been responding. I've been responding to or we could put $50 to minimize language in there.
09:56:38 I mean, the, you know, the cam fee waver, you directed that. Yeah, I just wanna be sure we have internal controls.
09:56:49 So that this is. Either not abused or is cleared of directors too of you know the the parameters.
09:57:01 Yeah, maybe, maybe a dollar amounts. The cap. I mean, I see that the person requesting the fee waiver has to declare, you know.
09:57:13 A number of things. I mean, just.
09:57:16 Right, and that's a new actually a new requirement before we didn't have any kind of declaration requirement so that the person would have to declare say indigency under penalty
of perjury or anything like that.
09:57:33 So. That was sort of taken from the court system, which has a rule on indigency in the way you claim indigency under, you know, for, for court fees.
09:57:46 So.
09:57:46 I mean, that feels like a control to me. So if there's like a cap, what do you think, $100? 50? Yeah, 2 50. I don't know.
09:57:59 2 50. Yeah, yeah, 100 feels too low to me. I mean imagining circumstances that can come up.
09:58:07 I can imagine a lot over a hundred dollars, right? Yeah, I was gonna say 500. We just don't want it to get out of control, right?
09:58:19 I mean, land development applications or something. So if there is a need over $500, then what happens?
09:58:27 It would come to us, right? And I do appreciate that this does go to Mark to the administrator for approval too.
09:58:37 I also I think I also wonder about in the declaration it includes and this is from the applicant that the department has determined that the public interest is served or that
there is public benefit for the waiver.
09:58:49 And I just think that's weird to be asking the applicant that that should probably be maybe as part of the directors.
09:59:00 Yeah, that makes sense.
09:58:56 Signature. And for that, get moved down to the department directors section.
09:59:07 Yeah, that makes sense. And then do we need to allow, I think it would be helpful to have a.
09:59:14 In the application. Something that talks about partial. Waver.
09:59:22 And again, maybe that would be for the department director. To be. Yeah.
09:59:33 Makes sense. Like if somebody had like a $750 need, but they would apply for $500 as a partial.
09:59:41 Yeah. Yeah. Up to that limit. Yeah, exactly.
09:59:45 And I wonder if we really want, do we want Designees or do we want directors? Only to be considering.
09:59:54 Well, who would those be? It'd be Eric Kuzma, it'd be Veronica.
10:00:00 Do we have that in here that it's only deputies?
10:00:06 Can't imagine a department director going much lower than that.
10:00:12 But I can see limiting. And to the department director.
10:00:18 I mean it was limited to us before so that's a loosening of the bottleneck for sure.
10:00:27 Yeah, yeah, just Looking for ways, I don't know. So we want to plan for a week and maybe make.
10:00:36 I was gonna suggest that different changes. Yeah, a little hard to do. Proving gets subject to those.
10:00:40 We'll just bring it back on the 30Â s.
10:00:43 Yeah, sounds good.
10:00:45 Thank you. Thanks, you guys.
10:00:46 Yep.
10:00:49 Appreciate the work being done. Process improvements. Had one question I think for you probably Mark.
10:01:01 Just close that laser fish. Not used to this. The corrections officer incentive, you know, thrilled to see that getting used.
10:01:15 So is the, employee here. Gonna be serving as a corrections officer because I thought that his are part of the corrections skill.
10:01:27 Oh, they're not part of the civil team. Okay. It's, it's a little.
10:01:39 I think a little misleading because it doesn't actually help with the, problem we're trying to solve, which is the, staffing the jail.
10:01:49 And which is what's talked about in the. Mo as well.
10:01:58 But I know since it was offered to that whole class of employees. I don't have connection. To one member of the guild it applies for them all.
10:02:08 Yeah. And you know maybe Gordon wouldn't have applied without that incentive.
10:02:16 Does it provide any relief to the jail or did it actually pull someone out of the jail? No, no, Gordon, he's a retiree now.
10:02:31 So he was leaving the team anyway. Same thing. Actually, Tori was.
10:02:35 Yeah, poor towns and police department. So he was a net gain.
10:02:42 Alright, any other just happy to see that contract moving forward for the . I mean, it's, whenever we say anything for 10 million dollars on our agenda, it's, you know, whenever
we say anything for 10 million dollars on our agenda. I mean, it's, you know, whenever we say anything for 10 million dollars on our agenda.
10:03:01 It's, I'm like It's like almost a million dollars in sales. And glad to see, continue to be able to contract with mental health therapy providers.
10:03:13 For the school district. Yeah. Seems like OSD is gonna keep that going. Yeah, no, they super grateful that they stepped up to hold that, hold that football and.
10:03:25 They're doing a great job at it. So, you know, see Celia frequently and Hey, Real advisory committee meetings and we had one last week so I feel like it's a really good solution
to what was nice.
10:03:39 So somewhat challenging. Issue before. Great. And I know that's one that was not available on AV.
10:03:46 Previously so. Glad to see it here in laserfish.
10:03:52 Okay, anything else?
10:03:56 Happy to move and improve that we adopt the consent agenda for January sixteenth 2024 minus.
10:04:04 Yeah. Let us item number 2. I will, that, yeah, I will second that motion. Any further discussion?
10:04:12 Those in favor, please say aye. Aye. This is approved and adopted. Alright, we have a briefing at 1030.
10:04:23 And the work. Water utility coordinating committee Light agenda today. So, I wonder, I need to, I need a quick bio break.
10:04:38 So we, I'm also happy to just run down the hall and be right back. That's easier.
10:04:46 Okay, let's take a 5Â min break. It is 1002, so come back at 1007.
10:09:10 Okay. Thanks.
10:09:27 Yeah, definitely captured it.
10:09:56 Alright, I'm gonna call us back into session after quick recess. And time for commissioners briefing session.
10:10:05 Anyone want to go over there last week? I'm happy to go over my last week and I also had a question.
10:10:11 Do we have a Planning Commission workshop on Saturday this week. Yeah, it's not on our calendars.
10:10:20 Yeah, it will be. Okay. And, during the time, it would be helpful to get that.
10:10:27 The time it would be helpful to get that. It'd be helpful to get that. We'll be joining at one and probably one to 4.
10:10:30 I was working with Joel on Friday on how to best do this. So they're going to have a different zoom link for the first part of the meeting and then our zoom link for.
10:10:38 So it's just Zoom. No. Okay. One, and 4.
10:10:45 And then Got a name. Okay, great. That's that Brother Tim's doing.
10:10:54 Yeah, you know. You go to the nice, community. Okay, so I was looking at last week.
10:11:04 Let's see. Feel like I reported on all this already, but. Okay.
10:11:13 I did report on this, but maybe I was just calendar and calendaring before. So. On the ninth, I, did go to the Medicare open house with my.
10:11:24 Recently turned 65 year old husband and I am super grateful that for those Shiva volunteers. What a crew of knowledgeable folks.
10:11:37 Great. What a crew of knowledgeable folks. Very appropriate time for you to take on OH 3 A's.
10:11:39 Yeah. So, and then we had our behavioral health advisory committee. And we were here in the chambers.
10:11:48 If you folks were online and One thing that we've done. Because of the hybrid meeting structure is we have designated alternates for behavioral health advisory committee members.
10:12:03 And, it was great to see most of the alternate show up at the meeting, even though they weren't filling in for their person.
10:12:15 No, but just curious about the role and yeah. So is that way I got an email invitation because I'm your alternate?
10:12:20 Yep. And then on Wednesday the tenth I spent most of the day. At the DNR carbon and forest management work group, which came out of the last legislative session and.
10:12:34 You know, those continue to be. Good, good conversations and also. Illustrative of the differences between the stakeholders at the table.
10:12:44 So. We are moving forward. Though and I feel like. I said in the storming forming and norming progression of things I was hoping we were getting closer to forming and the AFRC
representatives said absolutely not.
10:13:05 So I'm like, okay. Well, the eternal optimist. Corrected once again. And then.
10:13:15 I did not. I did attend the Peninsula Trails Coalition. Board meeting.
10:13:23 And I would just say that Merrily is doing a fantastic job. As our Jefferson County. Representative.
10:13:30 It seems like invariably I have a conflict that there's 2 meetings a month and I have a conflict for one of them.
10:13:35 It seems like every month either the Jefferson County Coord or the full meeting but merely does a great job of.
10:13:43 Sending out a report from the Jefferson County meeting. So I don't feel like I'm ever.
10:13:50 You know, behind on what's going on.
10:13:55 Let's see. And then I made soup. Late into the night that night and it got up early next morning kept making soup lots and lots of turkey soup.
10:14:07 And then. Thursday was really about Taking care of business. At home and at the farm and at the farmhouse for John and Roxanne who aren't here right now.
10:14:21 So spent a lot of the day just taking care of personal stuff and then.
10:14:29 Yup, and then Serb. That evening on Thursday. So.
10:14:35 Friday I Canceled my morning in person coffee meeting. With one of our new DCD staff who was a friend from before time.
10:14:47 So it was just gonna catch up with him on. How was going? Cause I think I suggested that you look to DCD as a place for a potential job.
10:14:54 And then I heard Josh and announced that he'd been hired. And I was like, yeah, events.
10:14:58 So anyway. We'll connect with him. In the near future and then we did have our zoom discussion about hoarding with the woman in the community who helps people, I figure what
her business is called.
10:15:13 Smooth, smooth, safe transitions or, Robin. She does a lot of the.
10:15:20 Estate clearing out of states for folks. So she she was the one that wanted to have this conversation and Pinky and Becka joined and we had a great conversation and a lot of
things are already in the works.
10:15:36 Environmental public health is already working on engaging in mental health. Provider to help with these hoarding issues and these big cases that they have.
10:15:48 Becca did mention she has a hundred 10 active cases right now in the county. Of porting in particular.
10:15:55 Well, solid waste, solid waste issues, environmental public health. Issues. Not just solid. As coded for as our code compliance enforcement person.
10:16:05 So it's not just hoarding. Then I. Anyway, I felt like I felt like there wasn't a lot I heard some concern when I brought this up before in this.
10:16:19 In our meeting that you know this is a hairy issue well we all know it's a hairy issue but there's a lot of stuff that our team is already doing on this front.
10:16:27 So that nothing new came out of this conversation. Other than awareness of resources that exist, which I felt like was really good.
10:16:35 Then I went to the WASAC legislative, weekly, bi-weekly call.
10:16:44 Again, super efficient, grateful for those staff. And Friday? Friday? Okay, I wasn't able to accept that.
10:16:56 Yeah, she did. And then I attended the Public Land Steering Committee of NICO after that and heard their consultant present on old growth forest policy and.
10:17:04 It was quite illuminating. Not a lot of, interest in. Forest conservation from that group.
10:17:15 Yeah. And it was, did you say it's a forestry? It's the public land steering committee.
10:17:24 So it's old growth forest policy relative to national. Forests and national parks and you're saying most in the meeting?
10:17:31 Well, I mean, based on the Yeah, based on the consultant that they hired, you know, the The science was.
10:17:37 They were concerned about the science behind. Oh, old growth conservation. And then I spent quite a bit of time.
10:17:48 Reviewing our community wildfire protection plan draft and. Was so glad that I did. I spent like 4Â h Friday afternoon and into the evening because I kept finding things and
sending notes to our consultant.
10:18:02 No, they left had luck out for example as an area of concern. And you know, so I, you know, think it'll be in there, but it, I.
10:18:09 Was wishing that more people had done their review work on that, but maybe they are. Mark could be reviewed the community wildfire protection plan.
10:18:19 I went through it. Yeah, I noticed that I got to provide a comment they have a chart from another Go, yeah, George.
10:18:29 That was already noted. Brett Black noted that. Okay. Oh, yeah. And they made a comment about that.
10:18:35 They're gonna swap it the other. Graphic in. Anyway, so lots of good work has gone into that.
10:18:39 It's incredibly detailed plan. There was A lot of good information and I think it'll be helpful for.
10:18:46 I think it's super helpful. Yeah. I spent a lot of time with it this week too.
10:18:49 I was really impressed overall. Can I ask a question about it? Are all kind of densely populated areas considered?
10:18:57 Yeah, at risk, regardless of kind of the But yeah, so yes. And including Port Townsend.
10:19:16 Although it there was a few questions I had about Port Townsend and it seemed like it just seemed like I was wondering who from Port Townsend was reviewing it or how involved
they had been in the.
10:19:30 Oh, the stakeholder. Because it just felt like there were questions. Out loud in the comments.
10:19:36 On the on the draft there were questions about port towns and I wasn't sure who was going to go in and make sure that those were addressed.
10:19:46 And yeah, so there were suggestions that. Folks, there's their experts at DNR who should review specific portions of the community wildfire plan and I said who's going to make
sure that that person gets and the our consultants told me well.
10:20:02 It would be great if you could do that. So I was forwarding comments or sections to. Different external experts to make sure that they were their eyes were getting on those
sub components of the plan.
10:20:16 Is there an assessment of different? levels of risk for the different,
10:20:25 Densely populated areas, you know, I think like Kelsey and Brandon obviously totally surrounded by, forests.
10:20:32 I'm just curious how, and I can wait and read the report if that's how they're, every community has a risk matrix.
10:20:40 Incredible detail and yeah I didn't realize we had so many discreet communities. In the county. And finally gets there too.
10:20:52 Yeah. And they came out and actually ground truth. Yeah. You were on that trip. Yeah.
10:20:58 Yeah, I was. You were on that trip. Yeah. Yeah, I was and Jim, I'm with them.
10:21:01 Should have said, Go on my 1.7 miles off the road, but yeah, it was fine. We got it. Oh, good.
10:21:03 Well, I look forward to seeing it. So that was That was the end of county business and then snowmaget and could and zoom the rest of the weekend.
10:21:17 How about you, Greg? Yeah, sorry. Snow again, continuous at our place and just getting updates from the.
10:21:23 Frozen well, let's see. My last week I spent some time with the Community Wildfire Protection Plan draft as well.
10:21:34 I'm also met last Tuesday with Brent Butler. Talking about this coordinated water system that we're going to get briefed on here today, plan.
10:21:44 I think the theme of my last week was just misconnection. So, you know, I And the Kelsey in Brandon Empower Teams Coalition at the same time as TCC.
10:21:52 So. Try to reschedule the, empower teams. Lots of people struggle with that second Tuesday and it always met, it does not match up well with TCC.
10:22:04 So that was my hard conflict too between TCC and behavioral health. Always a conflict, right?
10:22:08 But luckily, other people also want to move the empowered teams coalition. So we'll do that.
10:22:13 And then we had Orca on Wednesday. Lots of new members on it, but you know.
10:22:20 But the good work continues. I also missed the onboarding of Port Health meeting with, Grey and Apple, filling in for case.
10:22:31 I don't know, they changed the zoom link and maybe I was only on the old zoom, but I thought I tried on both, but.
10:22:35 Then, you know, in Tacoma, at my folks place before my, class and then Couldn't get into that and then the class said, oh yeah, we're gonna because of the incoming inclement
weather we're going to just do this on zoom. Sorry to drive home for put on zoom.
10:22:52 Couple of meetings with housing fund board members and constituents on Thursday. I listen in on the Olympic workforce development council.
10:23:01 First of those, so very educational. We had our individual meeting with the Recompetes team from EDA.
10:23:09 And was really good they kind of went into our applications strengths and weaknesses. One of the big strengths was our the coalition kind of the nature you know having the tribes
in it they referenced several times having a broad stakeholders. So it's good.
10:23:28 We've tripled the size this last week. So we should be even more qualified. Not the size of our coalition.
10:23:40 We provided all the cities and all the ports and. Or Y.M.C.A, so we're, much bigger now.
10:23:44 When had one of our first meeting too. About our specific projects they were they just wanna make sure like that Glencove and the boatyard expansion high into this theme and
the boatyard expansion high into this theme and then we get one kind of narrative arc that goes through it.
10:24:04 I think they struggled a little weird. Kind of equally focused on both maritime and natural resource industries.
10:24:08 And I think we need to spend a little more time.
10:24:11 Get coalescing that into one clean narrative. It does. I just it's gonna take that's I think the big work that we have in front of us.
10:24:20 I can see that it makes sense to us. Like we understand that, but yeah, outsiders might not see that connection as clearly as we do.
10:24:28 Totally. And you know, going back, I spent some time reviewing some of the other successful.
10:24:32 22 applications that are both competing against now and and very lots of different approaches but you know tying our workforce development and wraparound services.
10:24:42 Into those industries. Into the infrastructure that we wanna upgrade is, Yeah, that's the trick in trial.
10:24:51 Others try to do that too or is that the other applicants? Now competing against also do that.
10:25:01 Trying. Yeah, assume they have their own meeting and so everyone's got different. Strengths and weaknesses, you know, that it's really it's I think I mentioned this one I was
talking about the first webinars that they had but you know there were we're proving the concept of this, you know, they want it to happen again and for these ones not to get clad back
as you
10:25:17 mentioned. So there's a lot of interface and technical support that's going into this. You know, we had 4 EDA staff members with us throughout this whole thing.
10:25:30 So, I'm going into this. Meeting with the Land Trust and, Scott Freeman with his You know, his aspirations to do a wood products business development somewhere in the county.
10:25:47 So. Anything from that meeting that I should bring to this conversation. Well, you know We still don't know about like new projects versus the existing projects.
10:26:02 I think they kind of like the existing project. So, you know, but how can how can this capacity that is convening around this table support the the existing projects, right?
10:26:14 I mean, right. Well, I think one is, we need more interface with the Enric, the natural resource innovation center that's, you know.
10:26:24 It says Jefferson County on it, but often field rate. But, I think finding Elaine to get these local projects.
10:26:33 Involved with that group is important. And the training element as well. I mean, what are the skills?
10:26:41 What are the trainings in the man who does this as well too? And then of course.
10:26:46 Like right now the airport eco-industrial park is not part of this and Glencove is.
10:26:54 So, you know, looking at the different locations and saying, you know, what's, you know, what's the different timelines, you know, and we'll have a meeting soon with Glencove
looking at.
10:27:01 Basically an innovation conversation to try to apply some. You know, design thinking. I've, I think I've talked with you guys sometimes about the frustration about the right
time to get.
10:27:11 Public input and I think right now is the time to get public in but what are all the possibilities? What are all the challenges?
10:27:17 Lave them all out in front of us and And, you know. That's for a wide filter right now, what we can find what this looks like.
10:27:25 So, or information about the natural resources sector and so and it's aspirations. And, you know, that's, that's a, a, a, about the natural resources sector and and it's aspiration.
10:27:44 Yeah, no, and make sure that the manager just can capture that and bring it back to the. And so she goes to those.
10:27:50 Okay. And so she goes to those. Okay. And so she goes to those. Okay. She's the one that wanted to have this conversation. So she goes to those. Okay.
10:27:54 She goes to those. Great. I'll try to wrap up here. Hey, Greg, do you know if, anyone was able to go that Kilmer was trying to get folks to meet with the Secretary, Deputy.
10:28:05 It was, it was limited down then to 3 people. And I think it was Karen, Aphel, Colin, and Aaron Bird.
10:28:14 So all the political players are, I think, meeting today. Yeah, exactly. And what was that mean?
10:28:18 This kind of soft lobbying, for recompute to continue to be funded, right?
10:28:24 I think so. Yeah. And the deputy secretary of treasury was in Naomi, they were probably asked a bunch of elected, but we were all in session today.
10:28:33 So.
10:28:34 Cool. I'm glad there's representation. So to wrap up since I guess we're just about at the time Cindy Brooks, convened and opportunities on, commercial industrial and Jefferson
County so I met with John Rose from Rainier kind of the executive committee minus Mark and I stood in for Mark.
10:28:57 And, and Charlie, a long time commercial and residential realtor. And talked about just the general landscape and what's needed.
10:29:07 Oh, first, first meeting. One thing that came out from the from Charlie specifically and John a little bit too was that People really want single family housing.
10:29:20 They aren't interested in Multi-family, you know, and I've heard this from some of the anecdotally from some of the businesses and agencies too, you know, when you bring someone
in for an executive level job that is coming from, you know, probably a single family.
10:29:36 House in a different community going into an apartment or a second story about it is not necessarily what they're looking for if they're especially if they got the end family
or something.
10:29:46 So, I had an interesting talk with the consultant working with Bayside on the Masons Street project later and Realtors might always say that.
10:29:53 Yeah. It was something that they said, you know, that it's like. The real estate market too is built on these single.
10:30:00 So they are also kind of dependent on this. Old model, the defense model that I was talking about earlier.
10:30:07 So just I think there's There's a cultural shift as we talk about middle housing.
10:30:11 That is, is pretty fundamental. And I'm not sure the best way to, to broach that.
10:30:20 You know, that place, what is it, to broach that. You know, when that place, when is it hardware homes out on, rainy or? To buy it the other day.
10:30:26 Looks like it's Quite a bit of his occupied, but I think there is still. Rooms left so there's high high cost, you know, one of the 2,000 a month or something.
10:30:35 There's still. You know, space that, with, the the housing market, you think, with all things like that.
10:30:42 So I don't know. So have that and we'll be continuing it the Parks direct meeting was Can't remember the reason, but, I, I had to cancel it.
10:30:54 So, cancelled. Just miss connections. That was my theme. I already talked about the recompete meeting, which is the big stuff on Friday and I met with the
10:31:05 Young, person trying to get into into the political arena on Friday. And that was that was my week.
10:31:14 Great. Thank you. We will have to return to. Briefing for Mark and I after our, 1030 discussion.
10:31:27 The water utility coordinating committee. So welcome to Brent Butler. Nice to see you.
10:31:32 Thank you.
10:31:38 If we have any. Individuals who represent our water purveyor. They might, they should be included in the invitation.
10:31:48 She might include members for PED one. The city. Olympic sewer and water just to mention a few.
10:31:58 Keep me asking the call, We do have. Okay, no everyone on here. That bill, but if there is anyone.
10:32:08 Watching on Zoom that feels that they should be a part of this discussion because they're involved with a water utility.
10:32:17 Please raise your hand. Hmm.
10:32:31 At that juncture, I do have a brief presentation and the presentation does. Clarify any areas of the agenda request.
10:32:42 And I would recommend if there are questions during the presentation, you can interrupt me. As opposed to waiting.
10:32:50 And so, Next slide. The presentation is really going to follow closely. The agenda request.
10:32:59 I'm going to talk about the statement of the issue. I'm going to explain the coordinated water system plan and the water you utility coordinating committee background.
10:33:08 Then I'm gonna cover an analysis. And then I'm gonna discuss some of the fiscal impact cost benefit issues.
10:33:17 And then I'm gonna, close with a recommendation for the board. Next slide.
10:33:24 So I think it's really important to understand that. The coordinated water system plan is only necessary for those communities that have established a critical water supply
service area.
10:33:39 And so this is really the fundamental first step. I do cover that in our agenda request that there was a September, I think, 20 seventh, 1983 meeting where some 60 individuals
representing our water purveyors, where some 60 individuals representing water purveyors representing water purveyors, met and identified a water purveyors, met and identified a significant
problem.
10:33:59 Was that the last meeting? That was the meeting that established the critical water supply service area. Okay. Was not the first meeting.
10:34:08 It would not the last meeting that is, but it was the meeting that established, the foundation, upon which our plan rests.
10:34:17 And so, that meeting. Which established that, critical water supply service area.
10:34:26 Really documented what is identified in the RCW, 70 A, 10004.
10:34:35 That It clarified that we do have problems related to uncoordinated planning. Inadequate water quality or unreliable service.
10:34:47 And so that was established back in 1983. And I wanted to make sure that's clear.
10:34:53 And that the purpose of the coordinated water system plan really is fourfold in those areas that you have that issue.
10:35:01 It's to help for minimum planning and design. It's also to help to ensure that there's orderly and efficient administration.
10:35:11 Now there are state financial assistance programs that could provide assistance for our water users. Now, a really important To note is that there are 2 classic.
10:35:24 Breakpoints in the water system planning. There's a group A and there's a group B.
10:35:31 And so group A really is 15 or more users. Group B are those that are smaller. And so what we're finding and I would love if any members of the community that are here can speak
up that the smaller users are struggling.
10:35:48 And that they're struggling to address the needs identified by the Department of Health. And that one of the roles and responsibilities of the board.
10:35:59 Is the Resource of last resort. Meaning that for those water purveyors that are unable to provide.
10:36:14 And go into severship or, or insolvent. We first rely upon in accordance with the water.
10:36:21 Coordinated water system plan the PED but if the PUD is unable to It falls to this board to allocate resources.
10:36:32 And sure. Interestingly, I went to a public health conference with Apple and some of our other staff last fall.
10:36:37 And one of the topics on the agenda was water systems going into receivership and counties having to take them back and then it happened in eastern Washington. A couple of times.
10:36:48 So it's and I guess it's more of a looming. Threat now because there are older water systems.
10:36:55 And the development patterns around them have changed, so. It seems like something that we should lean in on a little bit.
10:37:05 And as as water systems are aging. And I would highlight that the plan identified that when this originated, there were more than 80 class A groups.
10:37:19 Now they're somewhere around 60. What happened to those other 20? I have not yet uncovered were they I'm assuming that the largest PD did acquire them.
10:37:34 Out of necessity. Or insolvency. And so or, or they could have been mergers.
10:37:43 So, so those are questions that, the word of water purveyors could answer. Next slide.
10:37:50 So I've sort of touched upon the background a little bit. And so number one, critically important is that that meeting in 1,983 established what was the foundational basis of
our coordinated water system planning, that there were critical water service supply issues within the county.
10:38:14 And then the step 2, the work was created and established a boundaries. So, you know, I wanted to make sure everyone understands when I refer to boundaries what I mean.
10:38:27 And, and that is a pretty significant. Component because when a water service provider has established a boundary.
10:38:38 What they're saying to those that develop within that boundary. Is that you you should come to us actually.
10:38:46 I paraphrase, I was a mistake. Mistake. I shouldn't say should.
10:38:52 You must come to us first. And ask if we can supply. Only after we say that we are not able to supply you.
10:39:01 Are you able to start the process of drilling and supplying for yourselves? Okay, and I wanted to to highlight that and and any of the purveyors here can comment on that one.
10:39:14 At any point. So then the boundaries are. Can you clarify when you say they come to us?
10:39:19 Oh, so when I say us, I'm referring to, the boundary within which that water perveyor is operating.
10:39:27 So for example, if you're in the boundary of Olympic water and sewer. And you want to build something, you have to go to them and say, well, can you give me water?
10:39:37 I am building a 4 family home. I need water and they. Only after they say no we are not able to supply you within the time frame that is necessary for your needs.
10:39:51 Only then can you go ahead and and begin the process of developing your own, permanent exempt well.
10:39:58 And that's in areas that are served by a water purveyor, which not all are, right?
10:40:03 Because that is a good question. As to whether or not all areas are serviced by a water purveyor.
10:40:15 I'm sure that they're not. Sure, there's no water per anywhere around us.
10:40:22 Yes, and I haven't looked at all of the maps to state that clearly. So that's why I don't want to say that clearly so that's why I don't want to say yay or nay because I can't
with authority make that But I think we have owned multiple properties in various parts of the county that were unserved.
10:40:41 Okay. And then after the boundaries were established. The coordinated, water system plan. Was adopted.
10:40:54 And that was our first plan, adoption by resolution of 1386. And then. Some.
10:41:03 Almost a decade later. The roles and responsibilities of the water utility coordinating committee were reviewed and formally established.
10:41:15 Now, step 3, I have. 1997 update. That it shows that this was an a last official action of record of the water utility committee but It I do not and I have yet to find a resolution
by this board.
10:41:35 Adopting that plan.
10:41:38 So maybe it's not the last official action. That's correct. That's and I've been looking to find if they're is record of that.
10:41:48 So there's 2 different adoption processes, a record of that. So there's 2 different adoption processes, a record of that.
10:41:54 So there's 2 different adoption processes apparently. After reading, the revised codes of Washington and the whack and one of them in incorporation processes apparently, after
reading, the revised codes of Washington and the whack and one of them incorporates the revised codes of Washington and the whack and one of them incorporates the Department of Health
adopting the plan. And then there's a separate one.
10:42:04 After a 60 day waiting period, for complaints to be administered for the local government. And so I just, my research is not uncovered that resolution as of yet.
10:42:16 Next slide.
10:42:19 And so, this. Item is really going to look at the analysis. And you can see that we are among a group of governments that have municipal corporations that have adopted water,
coordinated water system plans.
10:42:36 We've had conversations with some of these governments, including Watcom County, Pierce County through our PUD.
10:42:45 And, we're hopeful that, our, really incorporates the best practices that these other governments are able to share with us.
10:42:55 And so our analysis, really, is attached through our meeting notes. And I've included that in the agenda really talks about some of the issues that.
10:43:10 Persist water supply problems persist, uncoordinated planning persists and inadequate quality and unreliable service are areas that we need to investigate.
10:43:23 And so this is something that is the critical underpinning of the water, the critical water supply service area.
10:43:34 And so this is what that coordinated water system plan. Is, designed to address.
10:43:42 I'm gonna bring, Bill Graham has his hand raised. I'm gonna bring him over, as a panelist and
10:43:51 Bill when you get moved over, happy to have you chime in if you have a question or comment.
10:43:57 Is that okay? Please. I always appreciate an opportunity to talk to Bill Graham personally.
10:44:06 Can you all hear me?
10:44:05 You with us, Bill? We can, welcome.
10:44:10 Thanks. Just to go. Backwards, 1, one step. I was trying to, comment on the last.
10:44:20 Update that I know of there was a Service area map. Update that was done and 2,006 and I think that maybe.
10:44:32 The last time that the
10:44:40 So I'm hoping that's helpful. And then.
10:44:42 That instinct. Hey, Bill, would you mind just stating your, your title with the PUD also for the public's benefit?
10:44:52 Sure. By Bill Graham resource manager with the PUD my title used to be water resource manager.
10:45:03 I've been with the PED for 25 going on 26 years this month and so I'm about as old as the last.
10:45:17 Official copy of the CWS pay. So, so I, do have some water planning history.
10:45:27 Here in East Jefferson County.
10:45:29 Just a little. Maybe while we have you, Billy, and I was gonna ask this question.
10:45:36 Also, of Brent. How does the work that many of us did, Bill and I, I'm not sure if you were around then Brent on the Ria 17 in stream flow.
10:45:51 Planning tie in with this work. It's a whole other layer here of water availability? That's a really good question.
10:46:01 And so if you look at our meeting notes, we have touched base on that topic. And specifically identifying that the scope of work that we would issue.
10:46:16 Is to look at, and I believe I called out the virus. Specifically areas for consistency.
10:46:25 Yeah, you said WAr 17, pulsing snow. So if you look on our, scope of work.
10:46:34 One of the items that will be looked at is an update to ensure consistency with the 4 wires that are in our area.
10:46:43 Great. Okay. There's so many moving pieces. There's also some legislation that is, looking at areas where those instream flows were never in existence to begin with.
10:46:56 So that Pandora's box might get reopened again. And then of course there's the.
10:47:02 State Board of Health taking on some regulation of group B systems too. So there'll be a bunch of moving pieces while we are.
10:47:10 Formulating this. Yes. And the climate change resiliency. New requirements in, comp plan.
10:47:21 Yes.
10:47:21 We have the benefit of some time behind us now that the Water management rule was tasked over 10 years ago.
10:47:32 One thing that we should look at is what the impact has been. On some of the More significant.
10:47:44 Rules within the rule from thinking of the impact of the Chimican Basin being closed. Has that had an impact on?
10:47:58 The amount of, service connections. That have gone to the PD requests for. Extending the service area to.
10:48:12 Okay.
10:48:09 To meet demand. Off hand I can't give you really Solid answer just something anecdotal.
10:48:20 But it is a significant impact and of course it's not the Only area. That did have, instream flows set.
10:48:31 That also had public water systems in additional water demand and thinking specifically of. Cool. So that is all new context.
10:48:44 That was not, present at the time of the last update of the water system plan.
10:48:53 Just to clarify that the basin, some basin is closed to for outdoor water use, correct?
10:49:02 There's still the, limited amount of water available for indoor use for new uses. Is that correct?
10:49:09 That's correct for new permit exempt wells. If you were applying for an additional water right, that would not be.
10:49:19 Correct. Okay.
10:49:18 The case. You would have to offset the impact to Chimicum Creek.
10:49:25 Okay, thank you. And I wanted to point out those Bill and others that are on this call and meeting that on page 8 of the packet.
10:49:37 I do call out the scope of work content. And I've identified the mandatory elements and some of the laws that have to be checked.
10:49:48 To ensure that the plan is consistent with changes that have occurred. If there are mandatory elements that are missing, that you see are not fully encapsulated here, please
let me know.
10:50:03 Thank you.
10:50:04 Absolutely.
10:50:08 So on the next slide, I'm gonna share more about, the fiscal analysis.
10:50:16 And so leading up to coming to the board, our biggest challenge was the concerns regarding of the coordinated water system plan update.
10:50:26 And so how can I come to the board? With a request for funding. When I don't know how much the plan is gonna cost the update.
10:50:37 So this was the first. Sort of problem that had to be resolved. And that's why, work has started on creating a scope of work.
10:50:46 So the standard approach that we've taken is we draft the scope of work, we make sure that it incorporates all of the components.
10:50:53 That are necessary to comply with state law and then, we, set it out, I almost like using the fishing term.
10:51:05 When you put out a line, you let it soak for a little while or the net. And so we let it soak.
10:51:10 We're going to use the Seattle Daily Journal of Commerce and and then I also supplement this Seattle Daily Journal of Commerce with a search of the database.
10:51:20 Of those types of sort of those types of firms that the municipal research service centers identified have expertise in that area.
10:51:30 And then I let them know that there is in the Delhi Journal of Commerce on this 2 Mondays, something I want you to pay attention to.
10:51:39 We'd love to hear, receive a proposal from you. So I do a 1 2 punch, one being the Daily Journal of Commerce and 2 being an outreach and the last time I did that I wrote to
400 and over 400 firms.
10:51:55 For the RFPs to get consultants and so I it seems to the 1 2 trip is really important I find so from 400 how many how many interest did parties did you Oh, from the RFP we got,
close to half a dozen, I think.
10:52:12 Yeah, but we've had, if you remember, we've had, quite a few RFPs before then without any takers.
10:52:21 Or, and so we've had significant problems in the past. And so this has been the how we innovated to get more persons interested.
10:52:32 So moving to the funding model. So then after we, my goal is to have the scope of work out on Monday, on the daily journal.
10:52:44 I might not make it, but I'm going to try and give it to a college try. And so if we get that out on Monday, I'm hopeful that it'll soak for about a month.
10:52:51 And then. Within a month's time, we'll have an understanding of how much it costs.
10:52:57 But before that, I thought it's always important to understand how are other governments paying for this. Which in some instances are Multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars.
10:53:09 And so, one of those approaches is that the represented parties, those that are members of the work.
10:53:16 They all contribute. To the cost of developing the plan. Another model which we see Watcom County.
10:53:27 And I believe, Thurston County, they have a taxing district. I know Thurston does and I know Watson does.
10:53:33 But the question is, what is the breath of it? The example I have here really is based on my discussions with Watson County because they're a bit over over the top in terms
of the the scope of that taxing districts allowable expenses, which includes storm order.
10:53:56 Okay, and flooding and so the the Thurston County has they have a Storm Marty utility, but I don't believe they address the flooding.
10:54:08 And I might be mistaken, but that's my my understanding. And then finally, the other area of the taxing district does cover is the coordinated water system plan.
10:54:20 And so typically the stormwater utility, is a tax upon the voters. And that tax is used at least in Thurston County's example to fund this 20 person storm order team and I've
seen they go out they have drainage.
10:54:38 Maintenance programs in more dense areas. And if you remember, Thurston County, I think, has an unincorporated population of like a hundred 90,000.
10:54:48 So it's a higher it's a much greater density. So property tax? Yes. My understanding is that it was a property tax assigned to every parcel.
10:54:58 And, actually.
10:55:01 And if I remember correctly, and I might be mistaken, is that it was based upon impervious surface.
10:55:09 And so the impervious surface, so if you have none and I might need to be refreshed it's been some time as you might recall it was the community development director at 1 point
there what they call resource stewardship directors but in that in that I've one of the most critical foundational components of determining a charge was how much impervious surface.
10:55:33 That property is responsible and a lot of the most challenging ones came from mining companies because there was a question as to whether or not the actual impacted drop road
was an impervious surface.
10:55:49 And so just wanted to point that out that that if there is a desire to look at that, we do have other governments that could provide assistance.
10:55:57 And the reason the stormwater was looked at is is that stormwater is the number one contributor to the declining water quality.
10:56:06 In our base and oceans. And so surface water run off. It would be interesting just thinking about other.
10:56:14 Processes that are underway. To think about how this work relates to the conservation districts, Chimich and watershed planning.
10:56:25 Process that's ongoing right now. And then also we have Slow played our Chimacum drainage district discussion because we wanted to be informed by the work that comes out of
the watershed planning process that the CD is undertaking right now.
10:56:42 So that's just the Chimican watershed, but it's a big portion of unincorporated East Jefferson County so just so you know that those 2 efforts are ongoing, Brandon, if you want
to talk anymore about them, Mark and I are both involved with both of them. Thank you.
10:56:58 Thank you, I think that's a big question in terms of scope. Yeah. And you know, in Clark County, we're just talking stormwater and flooding. Yeah.
10:57:09 Yeah, and you know in Clark County we passed a clean water fee and they did that before I arrived they passed a clean water fee and they did that before I arrived there and,
they did that before I arrived there in 2,001 and It created a firestorm.
10:57:18 Because you've got to determine each parcel how much. Impervious surface is involved and, and we also levied the road.
10:57:29 Department for all the roads. Right. And that was a million and a half. Every year hit to the road fund.
10:57:37 So I would not recommend that we consider forming a taxing district. We have a discrete task here.
10:57:42 Which is to update this plan a taxing district would live on well beyond that. And I would just urge.
10:57:54 Sorry, we interrupt. That's okay. So much to respond to here.
10:58:02 I'll start with.
10:58:06 Quite a scope question, which is. Should the C WSP only cover public water systems. Or should it also, I mean, we're saying should it include stormwater and then.
10:58:23 Well, and, ag. How much are we gonna be looking at water rights and, you know, a lot of that.
10:58:31 Chimicum is divided, you know, it's partially in the PWD service area but also a lot of those are either exempt wells or there are water rights largely associated with agriculture.
10:58:43 And just looking at the some of the RCW and whack regarding CWSPs or is it Only required to look at public water systems or should it be looking more comprehensively at other
types of water rights.
10:59:03 Oh, it's funny you mentioned that because in our discussions with the Department of Health they were very interested in providing funds if we go above the bare minimum and so
the bare minimum included by statute and so some of the areas that might be incorporated above the bare minimum include one of water rights, poly.
10:59:29 Chlorinated by phenols. And so, And I believe there are a few other areas that are fundable through the department.
10:59:40 I'm near my State Department of Health. I'm referring to the State Department of Health. One or 2.
10:59:47 And one of our partners in the discussion has been, the source, water program at the Department of Health.
10:59:54 And so. The question that you ask, I'd have to look into a little more detail because we could.
11:00:01 Add those on and it may not have a significant impact. Because of the availability of funding. Although Typically, Department of Health regulates water quality, Department of
Ecology, regulates water quantity.
11:00:20 And so for talking like water rights, I would think that would a not be covered by funding from DOH, but is that inaccurate?
11:00:31 They did say water rights was one of the areas that the, the source and I, and it's in our notes and, I just wanted to make sure.
11:00:40 Referring to the proper team members. And I should say I'm not suggesting we look at that. I mean, there's always been an interest in planning for water for agriculture, ensuring
that we have enough water for egg.
11:00:53 You know, for lots of reasons, including climate resilience and food security. But what we learned during the rye 17 watershed management process was that So many of the water
rights in this county are not perfected under the use that are lose it, provision.
11:01:15 And so There's a fear of actually, we kept talking about lifting the, you know, lifting the hood, looking underneath the hood that it could, we could end up losing more rights
than we actually have on paper.
11:01:26 And so, like there's a We should be very cautious in thinking about doing that.
11:01:33 It's been better to just not do the planning because we risk putting some of those rights. In Jeopardy.
11:01:40 And I want to point out that we did have Just source water protection program. A manager at the table and that was where I heard that the funding through their program which
is about a half a million dollars a year and they did provide thirst and county $150,000 for their update.
11:02:01 That water rights could be included. As they pertain to public water systems, you think, or as it pertains to public water systems in is as part of the coordinated water system
plan update.
11:02:17 I love this.
11:02:17 Yeah, that source protection manager, I believe she mentioned. Funding for developing Groundwater monitoring networks that were not necessarily related to water quality but
water quantity.
11:02:35 And in our area. Water quantity and seawater intrusion are interrelated. And so that becomes a public health issue.
11:02:49 So you could consider that as a potential project that could stem from. Planning needs.
11:03:03 And I wanted to point out to the board that I'm not making a recommendation. Regarding the source of funding until the scope of work is completed.
11:03:14 I do have some vague ideas of how we would be able to fund the project, but, absent an actual cost.
11:03:24 Right. But Kevin Street with PhD has made a commitment to help finance the study. And so the represented parties and general fund model will likely be where we go.
11:03:38 Unless there's grant money available. But in developing a scope of work. Wouldn't it be helpful to know if how broad that scope should be?
11:03:49 That would determine the funding. So for including things like stormwater and agricultural water supply. That's going to be a much larger scope.
11:03:57 Than the minimum requirements. Right. And one of the, there's a couple of different approaches. I mean, we could publish the scope of work and then amend it to include additional
areas.
11:04:09 For those responsive parties or you could have alternatives. Like add ons, like here's the bare minimum, what would that cost?
11:04:19 Here's alternative A, which would be. Agricultural water supply or you know exactly and we could have as many of those as we would need to and then we could be like a cafeteria
plan, then the board could say, let's do these 2.
11:04:37 Do we know locally the, extent to which stormwater is a contaminant locally.
11:04:45 I mean, I know in urban counties, stormwater is. The greatest source of pollution and some marine waters, but, is that true here too where we have a lot of existing ecological
function?
11:04:55 Well, some of the reports that I've read said that once you get a 7% per pervious surface, you start contributing contaminants to the nearby water bodies.
11:05:04 That was a washed out study some time ago. I'd have to dig it up. And so we have a lot of areas that have already, 7% threshold.
11:05:15 Especially in our waterways, they are more developed. So I'd have to look and have to look at that. That was a study from.
11:05:20 Sometime ago, 15 years ago. And we are not required to comply with the stormwater handbook per.
11:05:28 Ecology. Am I getting that language right? We do not meet the threshold for population. Right and the the Stormwater manual.
11:05:40 I'd have to pull up the what box would fall into. I'm not that familiar with that.
11:05:46 I'm not that familiar with that. But we are deemed below the radar. Yeah.
11:05:56 Yes, that's it.
11:05:52 Sorry, we're just going all over the place here. This could incorporate so many things. We have until we have until 1130, right?
11:06:04 Okay. So, and this is good because I wanted to have discussion. We provide great counsel.
11:06:11 Good advice. I really appreciate that. Next slide. Or more confusion and complexity.
11:06:19 And so, recommendation is that, publisher notice requesting interested parties to apply.
11:06:30 And when I say that, I'm really referring to number 7. So that there is some opportunity for a stakeholder representing a group A, or group B, water utility or both, preferably
both.
11:06:41 And so that the board can make that selection. Now I've been really careful about hewing as closely as possible to the whack that's included in your packet.
11:06:55 And I'm referring to attachment one and that's whack 2 4 6 2 9 3 dash 1 50.
11:07:03 And the reason I'm viewing closely to that is I believe that we're all aware that as the size of the group increases.
11:07:11 The length of the meetings to the length of coordination does. And so the minimum requirement is that there be a meeting, a group of 4.
11:07:22 In the in the whack. So I've almost doubled what is the minimum requirement. But I know and I hesitate to go or to expand it much more to ensure that it's a manageable meeting.
11:07:38 Are we not supposed to? I think there's language. That says we're supposed to invite.
11:07:46 Utilities that have over 50 or 50 or more connections. Does that sound familiar?
11:07:53 Yeah, that's in, the, and I'm gonna read that to you specifically.
11:07:59 The wax says, The water utility. Shall consist of one representative from each of the following. And so, and one of those representatives should be water purveyor with over
50 services.
11:08:15 And so we've included 2. In our actually we've included 3 We've included the 4,000, Olympic water insurer and public utility district number one.
11:08:27 So we've met that standard.
11:08:29 That's not every perveyor over 50. It's it's clear. It says, so, consist of one representative from each of the following.
11:08:41 And so the first one is the, of one representative from each of the following. And so the first one is the, of the, and so you also have to make a determination of who from
the board, the legislative body.
11:08:52 Yeah, I think yeah. Okay, I thought you had good and then someone from the planning agency.
11:08:58 And then another person from the health agency. And then a one from a group that has 50 connections or more.
11:09:06 And the city makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, how is he? Also, there's more than 50.
11:09:14 So, and the PV of course has 2. So, how many, how many more are there?
11:09:21 Paradise, Baywater system. How many other? Do you know how many systems? How many more are there? Paradise Bay water system. How many other? Do you know how many systems? Over
50.
11:09:24 Hey, George. See.
11:09:25 I can Keep George, right. Hello, Point.
11:09:31 Oh, Kalpoint's a PD system.
11:09:31 Just kill. Okay, yeah. Okay. Is this something you'd like us to take action on today?
11:09:40 Is that the? Yes, I'd like to move ahead with all deliberate speed. Okay. And this too speaks a little bit to scope, right?
11:09:51 If we keep this as, suggested here as proposed. That is the public water systems, which I'm actually fine with keeping it to a fairly limited, scope and not, trying to do.
11:10:03 Too broad. I guess I wonder about number 7 representing group A's or group B's and I think that would inevitably normally end up being a group bay.
11:10:13 Representative, but like you talk about this sort of marginalized group that are these, you know, small 15 and smaller.
11:10:21 And I just, I wanna make sure that voice, yeah, maybe both is what I would recommend. I mean, cause what we do have, we have already 3 group A's.
11:10:28 And so we could make sure that 7 is a clue, someone who's a group B. Although didn't you have in the notes somebody identified that actually serves both?
11:10:42 That was yes, that was a recommendation. And I don't know if that person is interested, but there wasn't.
11:10:48 And I don't know if that person's interested, but there was an individual representing both exactly.
11:10:48 So if
11:10:50 The PD also manages groupy systems.
11:10:53 Oh, that's right. By the way.
11:10:55 So we have that perspective as well.
11:10:58 Yeah, I'll point out it did, bring over Kevin Street General Manager, the PD as well.
11:11:05 So he's oh great questions, and Kevin, if you have anything you want to add, feel free to jump in or raise your hand.
11:11:11 So is that a change the board wants to see in number 7? I'm okay if we make it.
11:11:16 We can. We can leave it. Either either or either and and it looks like we've got some candidates that do represent class B and it's going to hear the also represents class B,
you know.
11:11:29 Yeah, I just wanna make sure their voice is there. And public health will also be getting more engaged with group B.
11:11:35 So yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Brent, we're building you all over the map here. No, they're good. This is great.
11:11:46 And so the approach I would take is that and and this is one of the questions for the board is that I would bring a resolution forward.
11:11:54 But there's a pre step to bringing that resolution. Is your determination about that.
11:12:02 Person seated in number 7. So it'll be essentially a 2 step process. One is that you're gonna have to make a determination as to who will.
11:12:12 Server number 7. And, and then the second step would be just the resolution. Repealing the established book or any document establishing, named persons and then, I'm looking,
sir.
11:12:36 And then, the constitution, the reorganization of a new work based upon. And then, the constitution, the reorganization of a new work based upon a primary member and alternate.
11:12:45 Although we're finding that it's great if we adopt things in this format instead of identifying individuals.
11:12:54 Right. And then we appoint by name when we fill those positions. So could, could we? Proceed with this without determining who the individual is just that they are.
11:13:05 Okay. The position is the name position. That we, approve and take action on the appointments, but not with by name that it is.
11:13:18 We then appoint at a later time by name so that it has lasting power so that it is lasting power so that it has lasting power so that it has lasting power so that it has lasting
power. So that is I like that.
11:13:29 And those appointments wouldn't if it's up to the city to appoint. Right. They're rep, then they just appoint.
11:13:34 Right, but I think that's the last one says determined by BOCC. Right. I think we should.
11:13:44 One through 6, it would be automatic. And, Hmm. All right. You brought Kevin over?
11:13:54 Does no comment from Kevin? Kevin, anything you want to add?
11:14:00 He's letting Bill do all the talking. Oh, there he is. Hi, Kevin.
11:14:04 Hi. We just want to add that this is a really important, function that has to get done and we.
11:14:15 We hope that, to be a contributing partner. So thank you.
11:14:22 Kevin, I have a question for you. Do you agree with keeping the scope? Limited to the required elements.
11:14:30 And sticking with the public. Water service instead of expanding the scope.
11:14:39 Actually in one of the in the scope it does not include. Systems and I think they need to be included So at this point, I think we need to look at a lot of things, but the minimum
has to be done, at a lot of things, but, the minimum has to be done, but I think it would help us as a county to little bigger scope but
11:15:12 Right. Could we break it into separate projects? Potentially. Achieve the minimum and then, you know, maybe do step B and after that step C.
11:15:05 From the PD standpoint, the dollars are. You know if the scope gets too big what does that do to the dollar I like that.
11:15:31 We remind me of the Order of the steps that you're proposing because in theory I could see that it's the work is the entity that should decide on the scope.
11:15:42 They're the most informed and. Invested in that. So could it be convened and then they determine the scope or is that?
11:15:52 I chose it this way because I could see that being a costly endeavor. I was trying to keep the cost down.
11:16:01 And that you could have a dozen meetings just to talk about scope of
11:16:09 Okay. I could just see though that, you know, these questions like, you know, getting the PD's input on scope.
11:16:18 Seems important. So that we don't head down the road of an RFP and then realize, oh, but we should have done that.
11:16:26 I mean, I guess you can repose those contracts. We're not interested in looking at storm water right now.
11:16:32 Hmm.
11:16:32 Just water coming in. Yeah, and Kevin thought that, you know, breaking it into big chunks, do the minimum and then.
11:16:41 Once that's wrapped up, then take on the next topic. Yeah, and take them in order.
11:16:46 Yeah, I would recommend that primarily because of the history. We haven't even been able to do the minimum.
11:16:53 Right. Good place to start. We were, I feel like we've been reminding ourselves of that.
11:16:59 A lot over the last year and a half. Well, planning, you know, all these plans that Plus we spread out the financial impact a little bit by doing it in phases.
11:17:13 Do the essential part first.
11:17:10 Yeah. Bill, were you agreeing? Okay. Yes.
11:17:18 Okay.
11:17:18 That makes sense.
11:17:21 And just based upon what the board said, I, I didn't think of this originally, but maybe it is a good approach just to adopt this as the, I can come back with the resolution
encapsulating this as the the listed members.
11:17:36 Yeah, maybe the language in the. In number 7 could be, something like appointment by the BOC.
11:17:51 Appointment by the BOCC. Yep, that's it.
11:17:57 Is it already lists as the member that it's a Stay holder representing. That's great.
11:18:07 Then I could put this in your, consent agenda packet for next Monday. Okay, I wonder too in that stakeholder should it just be stakeholder representing a group A or group B
water utility instead of.
11:18:19 Or both, but maybe skip the last part. I feel like that kind of clouds it.
11:18:35 And then I. I think. We under the required or optional that. Purveyor with over 50 services probably shouldn't apply to number 7.
11:18:51 Right. One other, statement that really you should make a determination of. Is what should be the we have to have a minimum.
11:19:02 4 voting members. Just wanna make sure I have the statute attached. I think that's the minimum.
11:19:10 And so. Is there a reason not to give them all a vote?
11:19:15 I mean, you can, it's the boards. I see no reason not to. I mean, I have an odd number, so that works.
11:19:22 Feels like all of those folks should have a vote. All of those seats should have a vote.
11:19:28 Okay, so good. I mean, granted 2 are representing private interests. The others are representing public interest, but large water.
11:19:38 Using portions of the public. So I don't know. Just like more like profit, you know, there's a financial incentive.
11:19:49 For 6 and 7 that's pretty outnumbered 5 in the public.
11:19:55 I'm employed to get to give everyone an equal vote and if it doesn't work, Perfect.
11:20:03 I agree with that approach. Okay. Okay, so all voting members. Perfect.
11:20:11 I think that's enough for me to prepare the. Agenda request, for the consent agenda.
11:20:18 Monday. And does the, RCW state that it, demand going back one, mark that it needs to be, for example, the public health director or can it be or an assignee It states.
11:20:35 Health agency having jurisdiction within the declared area. Under chapters and they mentioned several chapters. That's the director of that agency though.
11:20:45 Just as health agency. So it could be environmental public health. One representative from each of the following. Okay, so it might not necessarily be the directors.
11:20:55 For 2 and 3. Right. So you could just have public health. 2 3 and 4.
11:21:04 To the port time. Yeah. So, for designate. Overly descriptive.
11:21:11 And that might actually have be better to have someone other than public health director, right? Might be environmental public health or right.
11:21:22 But one of the concerns I have is that we have trouble finding who the who is the appointee book members.
11:21:25 Oh. And so, and this is really critical because there's must be contacted with boundary changes and so forth.
11:21:33 The existing, even after we repeal. They all what? Oh, what I'm saying that I don't wanna re-establish the same problem.
11:21:41 Yeah. That by having a titled person, you know who it is. You know who is responsible to make the decision.
11:21:51 And they can always send their alternate who is a point. And they can always send their alternate who is a point.
11:22:04 In their at their discussion. Good call.
11:22:13 They've done their homework. Oh, do we get that? Happens occasionally.
11:22:29 Okay, you think that answers all the questions? I guess if you want to open it up for the public.
11:22:39 Yeah, so we are taking action because this will be coming before us but we did have public comment on the agenda so I will open it up to the public if anyone wishes to comment
on the varied and rich items that we have just discussed.
11:22:55 We welcome it. Please hit raise hand if you're on zoom or star 9 if you're on the phone.
11:23:01 I'll bring a.
11:23:10 Welcome, Miss. Ball.
11:23:13 So I maybe, you know, Put in a cart before the horse here, but I wonder if there is any sense of the timeframe under which We could anticipate water being supplied to the coal
scene area either or both down one on one or center roads.
11:23:34 And.
11:23:37 I guess I'll stop there. I know I'm getting ahead of myself here, but thank you if you have any insight.
11:23:44 And I wanted to point out that I believe that's in the water of service boundaries of the Jefferson County PD number one.
11:23:53 And so, that would be a question that, I would defer to PD number one.
11:24:00 Bill and. Yep.
11:24:00 Sure, we have a wire service area that was approved in 2022 it does not go down.
11:24:16 Center Valley Road from Colcene, I should say heading north. Don't believe it crosses.
11:24:23 The little quilting river. We do have a limited amount of water rights and we have a specifically approved service area.
11:24:38 That we would have to amend in order to. Extend water service down, in order to do water line extension, it would need to be.
11:24:56 Financed Yeah, it's a long lugubrious process. Doing that, we don't have we don't have center road really in our water system planning.
11:25:17 For the for the duration of our planning period 1020 years So you would need to. Approach us with a proposal with your your neighbors to potentially self-finance.
11:25:39 Waterline extension or There's, sufficient. Interest in your neighbors hooking up. It could be feasible.
11:25:52 But that is a that is a long process. To, to get a water line extension.
11:26:02 Where it's not currently in our water system planning.
11:26:08 I just pulled up this water service map from your website, Bill. Is this current?
11:26:14 No, but close. The. Future service area, That's still.
11:26:27 That's still, you can't really see any detail, but that's true to what is approved.
11:26:34 And as you could see, there's. It does not go far. North along. Center road
11:26:44 Okay, see it.
11:26:44 And we would have to go back to the Department of Health, Department of Ecology. To amend our water rights to be able to.
11:26:55 Serve that area.
11:27:00 Not an easy process.
11:27:02 Right. Okay.
11:27:06 Limsey beach, I didn't know there was a water system down there. Very next to Do Kawaris.
11:27:12 Yeah. So a little community down there.
11:27:17 Alright, anyone interested in seeing anything else on here?
11:27:22 Nope. Okay. Right.
11:27:28 Any other public comments?
11:27:33 Okay. Thank you, Brent. Do you feel clear on what? Yes, I do. That good direction.
11:27:43 I appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much. I really appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much.
11:27:45 I really appreciate your detailed overview of this and I, I like that we're digging into the undone tasks of the county or the.
11:27:53 The orphan tasks of the county so Yeah, feels really important to me. Good.
11:27:59 Us as well.
11:28:01 Good. We look forward to working with
11:28:08 Okay. So we have, nothing else on our agenda this morning. Suggest it's kind of an awkward half hour from 1 30 to 2 that maybe that would be a good time to continue briefing
we could recess for lunch early and then use that half hour to go over additional briefing.
11:28:31 Yup. Does that work? Do we want to finish calendaring or did we finish calendaring or did we finish calendaring or did we finish calendaring or did we finish calendaring? I
mean, bracing, sorry.
11:28:42 We're just talking about putting that from 1 32. Okay. Since we have, we should probably look at finish JPTZ as well.
11:28:46 I think, this week with Heidi, at least that's the last one I've written down, at least so we should maybe think about that.
11:28:50 I'll be on there with Steve, on Friday. Well we could do. I don't know.
11:29:00 He'd be busy, will take half an hour. So, and we can do it all after the break.
11:29:06 Maybe we finish. Briefing now then do calendaring
11:29:14 All right, Greg, were you? I was done. I mean, I continue missing appointments through Monday, where there was a Northwood community, Northwood Canal Chamber of Commerce meeting
that I just said, oh, I didn't even look at my calendar to think there would be a one on. The King day.
11:29:30 So nope. But I'm here today. Alright, I could dive in to my last week.
11:29:43 Spent some time with, I had a couple of meetings on, short term rentals and possibility of regulating those which is one of those issues that the more you get into it the more
you realize there's just a ton of considerations and financial impacts and you know equity concerns and so Do we want to get rid of Hepcamp?
11:30:08 I mean, that's a big question. In some ways we're a great destination for things like that, but we don't have the capacity to be regulating them.
11:30:16 Or enforcing and that capacity comes up with 5 gallon buckets people get to take care of the business when it has to hit camp too.
11:30:25 So, the sounds like, Brent is gonna be scheduling 3 public meetings.
11:30:34 Will not be one in district one, but one. In the northern part of district 2. Lot of so we found out update.
11:30:47 There are 500 4,034 unique units being rented as. Separate vacation rentals and 76 are permitted.
11:30:58 500 and how many? 34 unique units. Is that the entire county or just unincorporated?
11:31:05 Just unincorporated. And because the city regulates theirs pretty strictly. I think total at 695 if you include the city, but just in the county 534 and only 76 are permitted
and permitted by whom.
11:31:21 DCD. Yeah. So that's like short term, right? I mean, like no one's doing a change of views when they start.
11:31:31 They could, cause most of them are, 82% of those are single family residences and 96% are whole.
11:31:35 Home like entire unit so some might be 80 years but because 82% of single family residences that leads me to believe it's a lot of primary homes.
11:31:45 Being rented out at least part time for that use. Okay, did you get that info from granikish. Okay, did you get that?
11:31:55 Inpol from granite case part time for that use. Okay, yep, they monitor 74 sites, websites.
11:31:56 Advertising short term rentals. Yep. 74. I had no idea there were that many.
11:32:05 So, in February, Brent will be, I'm sure in touch with you about coordinating these.
11:32:13 Public meetings trying to get a sense of you know where's the public add on these, you know, to start kind of scoping out what we want to be doing and thinking about a lot of
the units are in district 2 but very close to the city.
11:32:29 So how do you were thinking maybe if If I could attend one of those. But not making BSC meetings.
11:32:36 And then you do one try area and then one in district 3. As a start to just get an idea of, you know, our people really concerned about the impacts of the housing crisis?
11:32:47 Are they concerned about impacts to tourism? There's a lot of ways to look at this. So they just like the ancillary revenue or depend on it.
11:32:57 Yeah, yeah, exactly. To pay the mortgage. Yeah. So more to come on that.
11:33:05 Did some agenda setting for the January board of health meeting as well as the. Our little climate subcommittee for board of health health also met to be doing some planning
for that.
11:33:19 Wednesday was in. Olympia. All day for the state board of health meeting.
11:33:27 We passed the new onsite septic code. No major changes. Yep, nope there's a lot of buy in from the environmental community shellfish community and Septic purveyors.
11:33:48 Is that a word? Does anyone define themselves as a septic purveyor? I don't think service provider.
11:33:53 Yeah, designer installer. Like the people that are building, yeah. Yeah, yeah, designer subject design.
11:34:04 Septic kind of sewers, installers and design.
11:34:10 Couple of other things at State Board of Health. As you could imagine, indoor air quality is more and more.
11:34:19 Pressing concern. COVID really brought that up. Course that existed already, but the the real challenge that I think Board of Health will likely be taking up in thinking about
some new rule writing for indoor air quality is just the.
11:34:36 You know, the desire to have. Extreme energy efficiency in the state requiring that more and more and the need for ventilation.
11:34:46 Yeah. And so how do you ventilate but protect against outdoor pollutants too? I mean, it's just.
11:34:52 A real. A lot of challenges. 20 more windows that open and close.
11:35:00 Really allows you to be responsive to the situation. Yeah, yeah. Old fashioned, but in commercial, a lot of commercial buildings that's.
11:35:11 Not typically how they're built, so. Anyway, kind of at the beginning we had a 5 member panel that was incredibly in depth and like made my head hurt engineers and so it's gonna
be a I think a big issue upcoming and we'll say the.
11:35:30 New building code, you know, so we heard Phil talk about how the international building code is going to be adopted years late.
11:35:38 But it does have quite a bit of new regulation surrounding kitchen cooking. So new requirements for how much filtration is required depending on the kind of space and.
11:35:52 Format of the kitchen. So that's something that will be coming to try to. Regulate that air quality issue.
11:36:02 And.
11:36:06 I think that's probably the high points we. Denied a petition to somebody petitioned us to require a color blindness screening for all students.
11:36:18 That was really interesting to learn about. Denied it because there's no evidence that being color blind has negative impacts.
11:36:28 Doesn't mean there aren't negative impacts. There's just no evidence that there are negative.
11:36:33 It feels like you could make a PowerPoint deck that would really prove some disadvantages.
11:36:38 So long as education system isn't reinforcing these by how they do graphics and, interesting.
11:36:44 Yeah, it was a really interesting and I would have guessed I would have landed in support of regulating it, but I voted not to also are requiring that testing.
11:36:54 Yeah. I did ask about pit privy. So, Pick previews are not really addressed in the new on septic code.
11:37:05 It is still lives in the standards and guidance. Document under the water conservatives section. So it is still allowed at the state level.
11:37:15 So I did some research. Looked up Ketatas counties permitting for pit privies.
11:37:23 You've seen that they are allowed. But you have to send an alphabet saying that you will never put a well on that property.
11:37:27 So long as the pit privy is there. So they just do a separating drinking water from pit privies.
11:37:33 So for like hunting. Yeah. So. Can you do a water catchment system?
11:37:42 They're hard to do, but I wonder if because we would always prefer Jefferson County a well over a water catchment system.
11:37:50 It's just a lot easier to get, my understanding, but I'm wondering if you didn't have a PID, Privy, and guest count whether.
11:37:55 Water catchment. Probably, but that can't be for drinking water, right? Ketchup.
11:38:03 I think it can be filtered. Yeah. You have to get tested still on the big filter systems and everything.
11:38:09 But I think people, I feel like there's been a few in the county that they're getting water through water. So they're gonna call some too.
11:38:17 Not easy to get. It's like the gray water system. We allow it, but it's.
11:38:21 Cheaper to just build a new or bigger septic system. The same train field and everything. Right?
11:38:33 Yeah. Good.
11:38:44 Thursday.
11:38:49 Numbers. Phone calls and fairgrounds. Discussions, various things. But the you know, it really became all about kind of.
11:39:00 Shutting down and roads and handling emergencies. Okay, did they approve that agreement? And it was returned signed on Friday morning.
11:39:11 Okay, so it's in the front office. Yeah, Carolyn grabbed it. I guess it was in the afternoon because it was after the Monday.
11:39:21 Okay. Yup. Friday like I said did the radio show and pivoted to just having it be about how we are responding to the storm and then.
11:39:36 Didn't work much this weekend, but did spend some time. Like I said, schlepping back and forth to the, winter welcoming center.
11:39:49 And that's it.
11:39:56 Mark, what was last week for you? Okay, light on formal. Meetings, of course, the eighth with the board and on Tuesday.
11:40:07 State auditors auditing Jeffcom 9 1 one and so I sat in on the entrance briefing and that's the most professional.
11:40:16 In brief I've ever heard from a state audit crew. Yeah, it was it was tremendous. Saying something? What's that? That's saying something.
11:40:26 No, I was super impressed. And then, 18 meeting. With, with John and Aaron quite a bit of discussion about the aquatic center, not a pleasant conversation, totally.
11:40:42 And then I checked in to the behavioral health advisory committee meeting for the last part of that. Report by vendors.
11:40:51 I'm super detailed. I'm super impressed with. The work they do. On Wednesday.
11:41:01 Took part in the North Olympic Peninsula City Manager County Administrator Ketchup. I'm quite impressed with the new county administrator for Clean.
11:41:10 Quite a quite a distinguished resume that fellow has. Oh yeah, Todd, Spent about an hour and a half.
11:41:20 With staff at DCD going over the workshop for the board on some good news there, but not all good.
11:41:33 Yeah, that's just coming Monday. And yes, so drummer all there on Thursday.
11:41:39 I don't know what happened, Greg. I just kind of space the meeting on commercial industrial property.
11:41:47 I was looking forward to it and then boom. And then, I took. Part in the Washington County.
11:41:55 Administrative Association. That's a WASAC affiliate and we went over a bunch of bills that they are tracking.
11:42:07 And then on Friday, we all know what happened Friday. Yeah, and I kind of blew it.
11:42:13 I should have. Close county the whole day. And so bad call on my part. And.
11:42:19 I apologize to all the people that came in at 10 and went home at noon.
11:42:24 They probably didn't mind too much getting the rest of the afternoon off, but Yeah, all's well that ends well, right?
11:42:36 And it was interesting to hear Willie say he really described the, you know, the 2 different modeling.
11:42:44 Agencies that had dueling modeling and everybody assumed that the European one was less likely going into Thursday, but turns out theirs was right, which was much more snow.
11:43:00 It turns out theirs was right, which was much more snow. Yeah, there's these 2 models and I hear Cliff Mass talk about it too.
11:43:04 I read his blog about it too. I read his blog about that. And I hear Cliff Mas talk about it too.
11:43:11 I read his blog about that. Yeah, the one boarded it to me. Willy reiterated it that ended up being the right one even though it was the less likely one.
11:43:15 So it really is all about. You know, it was the less likely one. So it really is all about.
11:43:23 So it really is all about. Yeah, and even though it was the less likely one. So it really is all about. Yeah.
11:43:26 Yeah, the certainty and uncertainty with which they project We in Calum got, we're really the only ones who had this kind of impact.
11:43:31 It's. It was fine. It was cold, but almost no precipitation or ice. So it was.
11:43:36 Be easy on yourself. It caught everybody off guard. Yeah, so that was it. Right.
11:43:45 And you stayed warm all weekend. 7 football games. I also made some turkey soup and I've I sort of rated my wife's birthday cookies and so she told me I had to make her some
and so I did and they turned out.
11:44:03 They taste good, but the texture isn't very good. Cream the sugar with the butter, Mark.
11:44:09 I mix the ingredients in the wrong order. Oh, so when I blend them, it didn't work.
11:44:18 Well, you know, I do laundry really and competently to make sure that I'm never pushed into German laundry.
11:44:20 So,'ll bring those cookies in tomorrow so you can see just how bad they are. Yeah.
11:44:30 While we had POD on, I would. Wanted to talk about. I mean, this is so interesting.
11:44:35 The, the, you know, power grid was really struggling to keep up, not just here, of course, happening statewide.
11:44:40 And like this is. Be the next challenge, right? If we electrify everything, they're like, don't look your electric.
11:44:49 I'm like, my left car is not plugged in right. I don't know. But he's driving.
11:44:54 She don't need them. Yeah, but what a. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hearing how the beauty is.
11:45:02 Yeah, but what a, I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hearing how the beauty is thinking about that for the future.
11:45:06 I'm going to the board meeting today. Oh, and hearing how the beauty is thinking about that for the future.
11:45:11 And I'm going to the board meeting today. Oh good. Wow. Okay. Well, it's interesting.
11:45:12 I got that for the future. I'm going to the board meeting today. Oh, good. Wow. Okay.
11:45:14 Well, it's interesting. People with Teslas were. Super frustrated because they would pluck one guy had to charge his car 6 times in one day.
11:45:24 It just sucks down. Well, doesn't charge quickly and then it discharges quickly. So my little car is doing great.
11:45:30 I mean, that just so Midwestern like how much are you driving in a blizzard to have to charge 6 times.
11:45:39 Maybe you don't need to be driving all day. Hmm. Yeah, my son's first day back at school was cancelled due to Blizzard in DC too so everyone's getting it.
11:45:50 Yeah.
11:45:52 Alright. Anything else where we recess for lunch?
11:46:00 Okay, we will come back. At 1 30, do calendaring and KPTZ schedule. And have a good lunch.
13:33:57 Alright, call us back into order this afternoon. Apparently, AV capture is down.
13:34:06 It has crashed again. So I'm glad that those of you. Good join us via Zoom.
13:34:13 Might be hard for other folks to track us down. The agenda is still up on EV, Carolyn, so people can.
13:34:22 At least find the link to us.
13:34:27 Alright, we're gonna do calendaring. And our KPTZ schedule before. Our 2 o'clock workshop.
13:34:38 On the shoreline master program. So anyone motivated to? Kick us off with calendaring. I'm happy to start.
13:34:50 Let's see. The next week.
13:34:55 So.
13:35:00 This afternoon, as I mentioned earlier, after our meeting today, I have. A meeting to discuss the natural resource component of our recompete.
13:35:10 Work and with some forestry leaders in the county. So. We'll be doing that at 4, so I'll need to leave here by 3 55 because I only have to go to the port.
13:35:24 Then tomorrow. I am going to be juggling between the first meeting of the short farm work group.
13:35:34 And the chima come in powered teens coalition. On Thursday, I have a community foundation meeting early in my office and then I have a meeting with Mark and Mallory about her
work and 2024 and beyond.
13:35:51 I have a meeting with Ken Huguenot about a public records request, a complicated one that is.
13:35:58 Oh. When the only one he's really had for me that's and it's a big complicated one so.
13:36:04 Just going like that. It was just anything, anytime I mentioned forest, right? They wanted everything.
13:36:11 Right, but I can't believe it's the first one. It's the only one that I think I ever got just I just got that we didn't all get I don't know I think so.
13:36:21 Might not my memory might be failing me. Then we have the Board of Health meeting on Thursday afternoon.
13:36:30 And then after that, I'm meeting with Joleen Crone just to talk about. My new role on the Sailors Behavioral Health.
13:36:36 Administrative Services Organization. So you got an acronym page. Yeah. And then I'll be going to the DEMS meeting Thursday evening.
13:36:46 And then Friday, I am going to attend the. Cannabis Education Summit at Fort Warden.
13:36:53 And I actually, my day on Friday, I have 6 meetings at the same time. Sorry, Cobra, overlapping, but I don't think, let's see.
13:37:03 I think I've managed all the conflicts. I am going to duck out of the.
13:37:09 Summit to attend. County. Coordination and then run KPTC. To do a segment with Steve Shiveley on the new.
13:37:20 Olympic Peninsula Tourism Strategic Plan that we just, finalized and Tourism coordinating council council in general.
13:37:30 And then Saturday it will be with you guys for the planning retreat of the DCD planning retreat.
13:37:37 On Sunday. Sundays, there's nothing. Work related, but just to say, farther on the horizon.
13:37:50 I am gonna take, I'm gonna. Go on a trip for a week. And so that fifth Monday, the 20 ninth, I will hope that we don't have a meeting.
13:38:00 It's on my calendar. Is attentive. Let's not have a meeting on the fifth month.
13:38:05 That's my request. But I don't, I think I'm just gonna go one week out with that special note about travel.
13:38:13 Let's see.
13:38:17 With you guys today. Oh, I just noticed. I missed that. EDC finance meetings today.
13:38:25 There was at the 11 o'clock hour.
13:38:28 As is my theme this week. I had both a dental appointment and a haircut. Scheduled for 3 o'clock today that I am not going to make.
13:38:37 Instead, I will go when we're done here to the PDs regular meeting. I think Samantha Harper is making a presentation on the sewer and they asked if I would attend.
13:38:46 And I said, yeah.
13:38:49 Go give emotional support, meaning some housing fun board members on Thursday and then of course Board of Health.
13:38:59 Nothing on the agenda tomorrow. Might have time to get one more look through the community wildfire protection plan.
13:39:07 Today is the last day. Who knows? Right.
13:39:10 Or to hell on Friday I have my first Olympic consortium board meeting. As well and then I'll be either have to leave it early because we have our county coordination.
13:39:23 Special meeting on Friday. Which will probably conflict with the You said you're leaving straight away from it?
13:39:31 And then back to the Cannabis Summit. Can't you go into the canvas? Oh yeah, that's what I said. That's what I'm doing on Friday.
13:39:39 Okay. Good. I can. Yeah.
13:39:45 You're not gonna go? I'm not gonna go. I've been to quite a few cannabis education.
13:39:52 Okay. School the work transition planning I have Friday afternoon. So I will be doing that. And then of course, you guys at the Planning Commission.
13:40:07 Then. Have you know also of course classes learning the programming language art I tell you that already.
13:40:17 And I need some data applies. I'm learning how to plot data. I'm learning the the very basics and then leveraging AI to do the rest.
13:40:25 Be a program. Understand what I'm trying to ask. Phrase the prompt. That's my goal.
13:40:32 So interesting when I did my MPA there was not no like data. Infographics or anything like that and everything I see now coming out of NPA programs is like, so data rich and
it was like it was not and we just did.
13:40:46 Old fashioned policy analysis. Yeah, it changed in that 10 years. Interesting. Yeah.
13:40:53 I mean, I'm ready right now about, you know, design thinking and analysis kind of being anathema to.
13:40:59 Having stakeholders in on the, kind of the innovation conversation and then you're fine and kind of.
13:41:06 Backwards is the way it often happens but you know yeah I've thought in the final months of my time in college.
13:41:17 I did a lot of field work, ground truth thing. A plant communities. And I was thinking, God, if it had been 10 years or even, 20 or even 10 years later, What what difference
would the Google Earth have made to needing to drive around in the DNR truck and look for, you know, occurrences of.
13:41:35 Native Outwash Prairie, which is what largely I was doing was just looking for prairie plant communities, but.
13:41:42 Now you would just probably just jump on the computer and zoom in. I'm glad I did it the old fashioned way.
13:41:50 I had the opportunity to. Probably one of the last people. Alright, is that your week, Greg?
13:42:01 Let's see. I've got some medical appointments in the morning, then. A meeting with the climate action committee just little heads up for all of you.
13:42:16 Mark included, we are supposed to be coming up with new goals. Chemicals for the county.
13:42:23 So. Mark, I wonder if we could add that to a upcoming agenda. Booms.
13:42:32 This meeting, it's not the climate action committee. It's just a subcommittee. I think the executive committee, we will also be talking about the, there's some carbon sequestration
goals that the climate action committee will be bringing to us.
13:42:47 So be prepared for those. And, the storage. Goals are they. And then lastly, Greg knows this, but there's a complicated process for appointment to the climate action committee.
13:43:05 We're finally getting through it. We have recommendations for 5 new members. And, so Mark, you and I are supposed to consult on those?
13:43:16 Yes, I have a email from Laura Tucker regarding that. Yeah, so I think I just need to get your sign off before we advance those 5.
13:43:26 I will say I was on the. Review committee because I wasn't the chair yet. And.
13:43:33 The committee did a really good job of vetting those 5 new members. So I would recommend we.
13:43:39 This one or yeah, I mean just one reappointment. Yeah. That's great.
13:43:47 I'm glad you're shared now. It's much neater because it was we kind of slow played a little bit.
13:43:52 Yeah it was just the rules are so I don't know, Contra indicated by the work of the committee.
13:43:57 So, glad that it's aligned naturally. Yeah, it's getting better, but it's not a permanent fix.
13:44:03 Just coincidence. So. Have the, Council annual meeting tomorrow, which is also.
13:44:15 David Dick's first meeting is the new executive director tomorrow. I had the goal of trying to.
13:44:22 But I guess I can't. Because Okay, okay. Yeah, and I have the goal of trying to just It's only half an hour.
13:44:32 The first half hour of the meeting, right? It was the annual meeting? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, just joining for that question.
13:44:41 Yeah, and you could meet David virtually to that. Maybe you know I'm already. Wow, way back machine.
13:44:47 And we are doing, strategic planning, trying to wrap up our strategic planning tomorrow. Then headed quickly down to a Olympia.
13:44:57 Actually, I might, drive down to Olympia earlier and, take that meeting from there.
13:45:02 Except meeting with our lobbyists, Olympia to kind of go over session and then we have the legislative steering committee.
13:45:11 Tomorrow evening and all day Thursday. I think I told you. Legislative Steering Committee used to go until noon and I race back to get to Board of Health.
13:45:23 This year it is going until 2 PM. And so I have the next 2 months have handed off cheering to the co chair.
13:45:30 Board of Health, Amanda. So I will be joining virtually or on the phone while driving back, unfortunately.
13:45:39 Not ideal, but it's only 2 months.
13:45:41 And then, tomorrow evening. I know, sorry, Thursday evening is, a project meeting for Mason Street.
13:45:49 At the county library. The architects will be here presenting the draft master plan. It's 5 PM Thursday, so.
13:45:58 Be back in time for that. And I think I was planning. No, I wasn't. I have that.
13:46:06 Yeah, the. Promotion has been a little spotty. Friday the nineteenth.
13:46:14 I'm gonna attend the cannabis summit in the morning. Hmm. And I'm gonna attend the, Putet Sound Regional Council Ferry Communities meeting.
13:46:25 For a little while before joining the county coordination meeting. I would like us to talk about the agenda for that.
13:46:32 Today if we have a minute. And Saturday Planning Commission retreat and. Kind of hope that I don't have anything on Sunday.
13:46:49 Sorry, but fairgrounds retreat the whole next weekend. Sunday's the collab relaunch.
13:46:58 Oh yeah. Oh right. I do have that. I'm like, yeah, yes.
13:47:04 We will not be discussing county business. No. We'll be toasting Rachel and Joel.
13:47:09 Yeah. I think that is my, schedule, but just looking ahead, I am gonna go to the NICO conference in,
13:47:22 Hmm. February. 9. To the Thirteenth.
13:47:34 And not planning on going this year. And then.
13:47:49 I'm actually gone then the following week after that. So basically, be gone. For a couple weeks.
13:47:57 Just FYI. That is the next week is the new school calendar and couple of our districts are doing a more balanced calendar.
13:48:06 So. We're taking that as a my daughter and I are taking that as a college search week.
13:48:12 So 2 Mondays, which I can, I. Can probably do join maybe virtually for Good morning.
13:48:20 Yeah. Just early part of the day. That's okay.
13:48:25 But there was something. We talked about for the twelfth. Carolyn, if there's anything important on the morning of the twelfth like the SMP or something, if we could move it.
13:48:39 Right. Thank you. That's right. That does sound right.
13:48:46 1 30 and 2 30. Continue to send key deliberations in action. Okay, any hope of moving it to the morning?
13:48:58 When is it looking pretty full?
13:48:59 Currently at 1015 there is a CDVG coronavirus contract close up public hearing only cap that so that was advertised.
13:49:07 That doesn't take very long, right? Thank you, it's advertised already.
13:49:16 Yeah, But since there's no meeting on the 20 ninth to set up to be advertised on the 20Â s.
13:49:28 Actually, I don't know if she has certain deadline. Okay. But yeah, if not, if It's a very short hearing, but if it had to stay on.
13:49:48 1030 to 1130. How much time you need?
13:49:53 Eternity. I mean, at that point, I mean, there would be an ordinance like it should be, the SMP should be.
13:50:06 It should be in. Keeping, man, that'd be great. Yeah, I said to make sure, that the nineteenth it's actually President's Day so there isn't.
13:50:20 The meeting is Tuesday the twentieth. Oh really? We got transit on the twentieth too. Yeah.
13:50:27 At least 2 times. So we'll have to end early on left and early on the nineteenth, right?
13:50:34 A twentieth, sorry. Carolyn, we'll have to end early on the twentieth because transit said.
13:50:40 One Isn't it? 1 30. They pushed it later that day. Oh, okay. I see at 30 and 3 30.
13:50:53 So yeah, so 3 30 that day because of the. Oh right, pick out of difference to us.
13:50:57 Yes. Right. Yeah. Okay.
13:51:05 Why was it? It's just was already sent out probably. Maybe that both times.
13:51:18 And I might not be able to join on the twentieth. We have a number of college tours that day.
13:51:23 I wonder if anyone else would be willing to share. I'm sure I ever scan. Sorry to miss it.
13:51:32 Where are you going? Boston, Boston. Okay.
13:51:37 Yes, for then. I wanna get away from you, man. How far away? Never leaving.
13:51:46 I won't go to college because I'm gonna be so close to you guys.
13:51:54 Okay, thanks for.
13:51:59 Those. I think that's it for me. Mark.
13:52:05 Alright, super short week for me, of course today. Hey, Caroline. Let's see.
13:52:14 I will attend the childcare capacity family support meeting tomorrow after not having done so for quite some time. Thank you, cause I can't.
13:52:22 Okay, very good. And then meet with Brent after that and then. Thursday.
13:52:28 Meet with Brent and Josh and then the forestry meeting that Heidi mentioned. And agenda review with UK in the afternoon.
13:52:37 I also can't do. I can't do it. Sorry, this Board of Health. We'll find another time.
13:52:46 I can't do it. Sorry, this Board of Health. We'll find another time. Okay.
13:52:51 Well, Friday, I'm having surgery on this hand, so I'll be out probably the whole day.
13:52:55 And then I'll be, probably so.
13:53:00 That's it. Do you think you'll be back next week? Yeah, Hmm, you could.
13:53:14 Right through that beautiful park. Right, through Qaeda, yeah. Alright. Kptz.
13:53:30 So yeah, IT this week is the last. I have and you said you were taking Steve.
13:53:42 Talking about what is it called Olympic Peninsula Tourism Strategic Lands. And TCC.
13:53:52 And TCC.
13:53:56 Okay. So then I guess 1.6. We'll go quick though. As for S.
13:54:04 I was looking on just that day because it was a placeholder, but it's also on.
13:54:10 The January sorry February fifth
13:54:15 We do in February, fifth and 1230.
13:54:21 I'm sorry. So that's what you want it. We do on the fifth as well.
13:54:29 12 is already expected. I know Josh and, Barbara needed some time for the ordinance, but I just was wondering why.
13:54:34 I think it might have been a place.
13:54:38 We can when we get into that with Josh, we can talk refine that a little bit more. Yeah, exactly.
13:54:46 So, Greg, what's better? Do you want 20 sixth or the? Second I'll do just to keep the order going.
13:54:56 I'm happy to do the twenty-sixth. I'll do just to keep the order going.
13:55:02 I'm happy to do the twenty-sixth, but that housing fun board special meeting. 12.
13:55:05 What is it? Not on my calendar. It's only a special. You haven't.
13:55:09 It's a special. You know, it's especially it's really to facilitate this.
13:55:12 Needs assessment. And so we just wanna make sure that everyone go to it. We're not doing business.
13:55:17 So I think it's from 9 to 12.
13:55:20 Yes, I will do the 20 sixth and February second. Kate.
13:55:31 2 9, are you around Haiti on 2 9? Is that the week that you're travelling?
13:55:37 No, that's the week. No, I'm back. Well, let's see.
13:55:42 Let's that day though is there's. It's looking. Well, I can probably, it's coordinated community responses at the same time.
13:55:54 A Dove House. If you want to do that, I can do it again.
13:56:01 And then let's 2 16.
13:56:08 2 16 is fine. Heidi. Who is the ninth? I will be the ninth.
13:56:19 You're out of town, right? I am. I guess lie out that day. Yeah.
13:56:24 And the sixteenth is Heidi and then that so. 20Â Si guess. My third.
13:56:33 Just certify the election. One, I can do the 20 third. I mean, I should take another one since I skipped one, right?
13:56:41 If you want. Okay, I can I can do March first. Maybe I'll do a 2 partner.
13:56:45 I don't know. And the answer to the question will come next week. Yeah. 3, 2.
13:56:56 Okay, 2.
13:57:08 March first. 7. Okay, alright, well that gets us through the beginning of March. Should we do a few more?
13:57:20 Oh, sure. So right now after this week we're going to, we've all got 2 at the beginning of March.
13:57:29 So. Okay. Would be natural to have me again. We, you double up, but we start with me on the 20 sixth.
13:57:38 And Kate, Craig, Heidi, Heidi, it's like a snake.
13:57:43 Snake draft. I'm not available on the eighth. I can do the AIDS.
13:57:52 I also am gonna be gone one Monday and April hitting the new spring break. So I have to sack me the next.
13:58:03 Fifteenth. Yeah, yeah. The county coordination meeting, but that's second. And the SAC meetings online that time so I could bump out early if need be on the fifteenth.
13:58:17 What is sack again? Olympic coast sanctuary. Hmm. Sanctuary advisory committee is what it is.
13:58:26 I can do the fifteenth if you want. One of you wants the eighth. I can't do the I can do the fifteenth.
13:58:36 I'll just.
13:58:39 Okay.
13:58:45 1Â s. 1Â Si can still have canvassing board meetings on my calendar. I got it.
13:58:55 They don't need them now.
13:58:58 And then.
13:59:01 I could do the 29, but then the follow up, make a match down. Where are you at now?
13:59:09 I don't even know where somewhere in your portal. What? Are you really?
13:59:23 Right. I'm available the fifth, but I will have done the week before. I don't, but I can do it 2 per.
13:59:31 Right. I have you right now I have. Craig on the eighth, Heidi on the fifteenth, Kate on the 20Â s.
13:59:40 Great on the 20 ninth so Idea on the fifth. Alright. Okay.
13:59:50 First thing in our little order.
13:59:58 Okay. When you always appreciates having this in here too, so. And anyone can get in here populate the.
14:00:06 Topics. The topics and everything she does do a little press release.
14:00:13 That can be the twelfth. 12, we're still going. It's nice to get them in.
14:00:22 8. Sure, I can do that. Right. That time.
14:00:30 Oh, wait. 19 coordination. Sortion board on the nineteenth. Oh and it's SV JSO and PRTPO and county coordination.
14:00:47 And we have this. Yeah.
14:00:58 I can take the 19. I think I can take the. Is that for? It's, Whose would it have been?
14:01:13 Was it yours and you? Line naturally when it got into the 3 and I could do it too I think Olympic.
14:01:20 Sorry.
14:01:29 Still 12. I guess if you could do it, it's a little easier. Okay, I got it.
14:01:34 Okay, now we should stop because it's 2 though. Okay. Yep, stop. I'm gonna save.
14:01:41 That's always. I didn't want to. We are ready for you. Josh.
14:01:52 And our guests from Burke.
14:01:58 And just as a reminder to folks, we are not doing public comment today. Although we are still accepting written testimony and we may accept oral testimony again.
14:02:12 Before our deliberations or after our deliberations. Okay.
14:02:19 Welcome. Josh and. So anyone else we see that needs to be brought over? Amy in the room.
14:02:28 Zoom.
14:02:28 I don't think so today is just gonna be Lisa.
14:02:32 Hi Lisa.
14:02:35 Good afternoon.
14:02:38 Alright, so we are having a workshop to, Maybe do some clarification on.
14:02:48 Questions that the commissioners have regarding SMP. Like I said, we would not be taking any public testimony, but just giving ourselves some time to, chat with staff and with
our consultants.
14:03:00 In consideration of the great feedback we've gotten from stakeholders in the public. So. Anything you want to say Josh or Lisa before we jump in.
14:03:14 But just say good afternoon, Josh Peters. Community. Development Director. So, as you just summarize, Chair Dean, we, you opened a hearing last Monday.
14:03:26 And then we started a conversation around it and decided we wanted more time to continue that conversation. I took some notes, share them with Lisa and Amy, our consulting team.
14:03:35 And together we've done enough homework anyway to have a conversation today and hopefully answer some questions. We're really, open to whatever you'd like to discuss about the
program, although we did.
14:03:47 Like I said, take some notes and Lisa even prepared some slides that we could possibly call on as the.
14:03:52 As necessary. So we'll just open to whatever you want to start to talk about.
14:03:58 Great. I want to get some kudos on the article in the leader last week. Nicely done.
14:04:04 I assumed you're working on SMP and that picture on below the fold there, but nice article.
14:04:06 Oh yeah.
14:04:10 Yeah, it was a good article, Josh.
14:04:11 Well thanks, I appreciate that you know the funny part about that just as a side note sorry Lisa.
14:04:16 You know, I spotted some things in there that. That were some misdemeanors, you know, just little things like level our hours of operation for a lobby that that was actually
kind of big.
14:04:26 So I pointed those out to the new editor. There's a brand new editor at the leader and they decided to pull the article from the website just so you know and they were working
on a few changes and they're gonna repost it in theory once they fix a few things.
14:04:37 So just FYI.
14:04:40 They don't do that for us. Well, and I'll let them read it before they post it.
14:04:53 And just so you know, Josh, we, I don't know if you were listening when we were doing some calendaring before, but.
14:05:00 I guess I'm the guilty party. I've a couple of. Travel conflicts during our meeting.
14:05:06 So trying to dial in when we think we might be taking action on this, cause I'd like to be present for it.
14:05:11 So if that's something we might be able to give some consideration to today also that would be helpful.
14:05:17 Yeah, if I get a quick comment on that, I was listening this morning. And, first of all, for this Saturday, again, pardon, Lisa, we're talking about other stuff.
14:05:27 That's not quite so related, but. As was mentioned as Carolyn mentioned, the meeting, the joint meeting with the planet commission is one PM.
14:05:34 To 4 PM. At the Gardener Community Center. But you're welcome to come at noon or any time between noon and one to share lunch with us.
14:05:42 We will have, we ordered enough. Food for you to participate if you wanna come just have an informal lunch with planning commissioners and staff.
14:05:48 Before we get rolling at one o'clock.
14:05:50 Thank you.
14:05:51 And on your other notes, so we had originally talked about scheduling time for this coming Monday the 20Â s to have a deliberation on the issues.
14:06:02 But it's certainly open to a different calendar. It's your calendar to decide. We could push that off for another time.
14:06:09 The reason why we were thinking that is that we wanted to after this discussion, depending on what's left over and to really talk about some of these issues.
14:06:16 As I may have recommended last time, a tool that that we developed to use with the Planning Commission to try to sort of parse out the various issues and hit each 1 one at a
time really was a staff report that Lisa and Amy and I worked on together and then we used essentially to complete a third column, an action column, for some of these various issues
that we offered.
14:06:39 3, 2 or 3, sometimes 4 alternatives to consider. So if you wanted to use to do that, that would be the type of thing we would do at a deliberation with you that way we could
receive that direction and then prepare an ordinance that attempts to reflect the direction in which you would like us to go.
14:06:57 Bye. Yep. Alright, so Where do we wanna jump in? Anyone have any burning?
14:07:07 I think Lisa has the presentation to turn it off. Oh, great. Yeah, I have a couple questions parked, but I think we should.
14:07:16 See what staff has to share and then.
14:07:20 Go from there.
14:07:29 Yep.
14:07:24 I'll share my screen. Hopefully you're seeing some slides. Okay, great. Some of these we answered in the meeting itself last time, but we thought it would be worth just going
through the list of things we were hearing.
14:07:40 There was a question about shoreline exemptions and the value. And so we are providing here a little bit more information.
14:07:49 So some development is exempt from the requirements. So some development is exempt from the requirements for a little bit more information.
14:07:57 So some development is exempt from the requirements for a substantial development permit. And some of that could be based on value.
14:08:01 So below a value, they wouldn't need a substantial development permit. But they would still need to.
14:08:09 Meet the provisions of the shoreline master program. It just might excuse them from processor fees but it they still have to comply so just to give a little bit more information
the substantial development.
14:08:24 The latest level is what we reflected. 8,504 and it's adjusted for inflation and it'll come back for review in 2,027 and then there's a separate amount for construction of residential
docks.
14:08:39 That's a higher amount.
14:08:43 So that was. More background there.
14:08:50 I think there were some questions on the modest home provision and where the size came from. So we have a little bit more information.
14:09:00 And this is the diagram you saw before, but I put in here the sort of how did we. Get to the.
14:09:08 Definition of what a nonconforming lot is. It's based on a the math of what's the standard buffer plus the building set back from the buffer.
14:09:19 The common house depth, 40 feet. In the frontage setback. So if you have a shoreline buffer, the standard that's 150, it might be less if you're along a lake, but this would
tell the staff this if you don't have at least the amount, then you'd have a non conforming lot.
14:09:38 This size limit I think is where you were having the questions. Where did that come from? That's in the existing code.
14:09:46 And I have some other information on some upcoming slides on, where that. Likely came from.
14:09:54 So we have 2 places where we're addressing things. I don't expect you to read this in detail, but like around line 1310 is the definition of non-conforming lot that was one
of the areas we change that.
14:10:08 Results in that formula and the other is all the criteria that go with the non-conforming lot allowed a modest home.
14:10:16 It's summarized on the prior slides. In terms of being the minimum necessary and enhancing the front the 80% of the remaining frontage and that sort of thing.
14:10:29 But where would it have come from? It's probably borrowing from reasonable use concepts in Charline Master Programs.
14:10:38 There is not Technically a reasonable use that's in critical areas, but the theory I think is the same is that If you're gonna deprive people of a reasonable use of their property,
you should allow for some accommodation.
14:10:52 And the modest home modest single family home is generally. A phrase that comes up in. Case law or examples.
14:11:05 And so other communities address the size. Have a modest home and driveways. Some have smaller sizes of homes because they might have smaller lots in a city context.
14:11:17 But they allow for a single family home and they often reference the driveway or a garage or an accessory unit in coming up with their amounts.
14:11:27 So there's a similar provision that other communities provide.
14:11:33 Okay.
14:11:38 We also reference this at the meeting last time, the maps of shoreline environment designations. The county has, the land records.
14:11:47 And it's GI web apps, where you could turn on. The different shoreline designations and for while the project is going the shoreline master program periodic review has had a
story map for quite some time that where you can also zoom in.
14:12:05 To the environment designations that will show you 5 years of permanent history and we also have shown at least based on assessor records where there's a vacant lots it's been
helpful for the cumulative impacts now since we've been doing.
14:12:20 So that's available.
14:12:23 There was a question about the definitions of aquatic and priority aquatic. And so priority aquatic is on the left hand side that these are the purpose statements in the shoreline
master program.
14:12:36 The priority aquatic designation protects at the highest degree possible and where feasible restores waters and their underlying deadlands deemed vital for salmon and shellfish.
14:12:45 And aquatic. Sure.
14:12:46 Lisa, I'm sorry, can I interrupt? And this is where you clarified that in priority aquatic that that was meant to be natural set, correct, not commercial shellfish.
14:12:59 So a question I.
14:13:02 Hmm.
14:13:00 Oh, I see. You're asking here is this. Natural or commercial.
14:13:06 Yeah, I jumped in at that point and I oxygenated that it was natural set. But I think that we didn't find anything definitive around there.
14:13:17 I guess I would also argue that. The same conditions that would be beneficial for naturally occurring shellfish would also help.
14:13:23 A commercial operation in terms of the types of the situation that you need to be. But did you find anything else, on that when you looked into it?
14:13:32 No, and I don't believe Amy found anything specific yet either. This, designations either in the language or the maps have not been changed since 2014 and it probably took several
years ahead of that.
14:13:51 So. Yeah, we have't found anything definitive yet, but.
14:13:54 The one the one additional piece of information I would add is that I looked at the use table in the current SMP, not the one that's being proposed but the current SNP.
14:14:03 And for priority aquatic and aquatic aquaculture was just listed as a P or just a, essentially that would just mean a yes use with a substantial development permit or whatever
the appropriate permit is.
14:14:15 So, whereas some other types of aquaculture like floating culture like Nepans was have a different category, categorization.
14:14:23 So I guess I would think I would think a bit more about what is necessary. For a commercial operation, are we talking about floating aquaculture?
14:14:31 Are we talking about Long lines. Are we talking about flip bags? You know those kinds of things. So I guess you'd have to get into the details.
14:14:38 Hmm. Okay. Sorry to interrupt.
14:15:04 Periodic update and focused on each access structures and then some of the provisions that would allow for changes to non-conforming lots or nonconforming development.
14:15:19 Or potentially allow for new development. In these. Categories.
14:15:28 And then this was the subject of some of the Planning Commission's discussion based on some of the correspondence from producers.
14:15:39 There was you know, how does the shoreline management act. Approach GUIDE. Aquaculture, in balance with visual impacts.
14:15:51 There are clauses elsewhere that we've put in the record. That came before you about the requirement in the WAC rules to address visual impacts of aquaculture.
14:16:03 So. It seems like this section here in the Washington administrative code. Identifies where there's an irreconcilable conflict.
14:16:17 Between what are dependent uses or public access or maintenance of views, the water dependent uses and physical access should have priority.
14:16:25 So in the code before you is, There are a couple of places aesthetics come up.
14:16:33 One is in the submittal requirements because that's in the whack rules that there be some amount of information addressing.
14:16:39 Aesthetics and then there are criteria in the whack rules about aesthetics.
14:16:45 But in the. Submit all the producer can propose to alter the submital requirements or the county can alter them.
14:16:55 There's some flexibility depending on what it is they're proposing. But I think the proposal is attempting to give a little bit of definition.
14:17:07 To make it a little more clear what someone would have to do but this balance point still remains and there's avenues to address.
14:17:16 Site specific considerations. I don't know, Josh, if you want to say anything more on that.
14:17:21 Nope.
14:17:23 I don't either.
14:17:29 We're not sure if this is the report that people were referencing, but Amy did a little bit of research.
14:17:36 To find. Report Washington Sea Grant report. Addressing aquaculture and so a high level summary of the findings.
14:17:50 Are on the right hand side here. Highlighting how complex the local environmental inhabitant conditions can be.
14:18:00 Different relative to different aquaculture types and so on. The habitat function about culture berries by type and conditions and.
14:18:14 Species diversity and richness did not change with the presence of aquaculture and hood canal.
14:18:22 Increased in the north sound and decreased in the south sound.
14:18:27 That's interesting. Yeah. Okay. So not super conclusive.
14:18:38 Hmm. Sounds like it depends.
14:18:44 Yeah. So that's it. The rest of the slides I had were just carry over from the last time in case you wanted to go back to something we shared.
14:18:55 I can.
14:18:55 Appreciate it. I think you hit on a lot of most of the topics that we're really kind of up conversation.
14:19:01 Yeah, I don't know. Is there anything missed that you think in that? No, I mean, I have a couple of kind of more process questions.
14:19:10 Less. From the previous time but Sound good time or? Chuck substantive stuff and see if there's, I mean, said that might drive the process a little bit if we are considering
substantial changes to the draft.
14:19:31 Or is that is your is your process about kind of moving forward or is it? No, just like.
14:19:37 Process for standard versus as administrative. Oh yeah, no support. Those kinds of. Yeah.
14:19:46 So one question I had, it's been mentioned a lot in public and verbal comments and in written comments that Kidsop and Klein require a standard conditional use permit for Good
oxides.
14:19:59 Yeah, no, you know for all. Uses. What is the practice or the?
14:20:10 Thinking around adjacent counties and trying to be consistent in terms of policy. I mean, it seems like it would be.
14:20:19 Easier to manage if the policies were consistent. Amongst adjoining counties, but I just didn't know if Joshua said something you ever encountered.
14:20:31 In your work.
14:20:34 Thank you. I'll give my take on it. And then I would actually be interested in Lisa's too since Lisa and her team have worked on other jurisdictions, S and P.
14:20:42 Yeah, yeah, sure.
14:20:42 So first of all, on What you said there, Commissioner, Eisenhower, in terms of our, some of our immediate, Jason neighbors.
14:20:54 I think if I saw correctly, but I have to admit that I haven't done this investigation perhaps Lisa could corroborate but that Colon County and Kids Hap County have decided
that to require a conditional use permit for.
14:21:09 Conversions. So my understanding again the whack that had been changed, right, since we last did our SMP here in Jefferson County, which is one of the reasons why we're addressing
this issue.
14:21:20 The whack was changed to require a conditional use permit for GUI docarco culture.
14:21:25 Except that conversions could that was up to the local government on what kind of permit to require so other governments might have decided to do a substantial development permit
for that.
14:21:35 Or some other, you know, or a permanent extension.
14:21:39 So when you say that. They have a standard conditional use permit and kids have in column.
14:21:45 I'm not even sure if KIDS upper column has what we call an administrative conditional use.
14:21:50 Again, that's something we made up as far as I know back when we did the UDC in early 2,000.
14:21:54 I think we borrowed it from Walkcombe, one of those 2. But I'm pretty darn sure that not every jurisdiction even has an administrative condition use permit.
14:22:05 So I think that's kind of our own thing, and even has an administrative condition use permit. So I think that's kind of our own thing and perhaps it's our own problem now.
14:22:09 We, that's something that we made up again to try to differentiate between different types of proposed uses.
14:22:15 I guess I would say from experience that not every conditional use is the same. Certainly not in size and intensity scale and and place matters.
14:22:23 You know, really matters where it is. That's where that judgment comes in. Either on a discretionary, on the discretion of conditions essentially.
14:22:30 That's when we the code administrator decides is this going to be a standard that goes to a hearing examiner or we can handle administratively.
14:22:35 We have plenty of uses, our own use table, that are strictly administrative conditions permits. Anyway, so in the world of Charlotte management though, it's There's it's either
a variance, a conditioning use, a substantial development permit or an exception.
14:22:49 Those are the basics, right? And so I don't even know how different ours would be then if you take away this part of the equation.
14:22:54 I do I'm pretty sure though that it was pointed out to us that in Mason County they decided that will they have to do a conditioning permit for new GUI or aquaculture.
14:23:03 But they decided that conversions would not require a conditioner's permit. So that could have been a choice that that was recommended to you or that you decide to do that,
you know what, we're not even gonna require a conditioning this permit for conversions.
14:23:17 Now the whole word of expansion is a little bit different. The whack is silent on it. We have our own rules about what cost constitutes an expansion.
14:23:24 I think I mentioned before that. There's a certain percentage expansion for other types of aquaculture.
14:23:30 That's when we would get involved and require a permit for aquaculture that heretofore has not required a permit because of pastoral Limester program policies.
14:23:38 But for GUI dog though, it was it's distinct in the code. It says any expansion at all would trigger a permit process and that's where you get into this difference.
14:23:48 Do we want every single expansion no matter if it's a square inch or a square mile, require the same permitting process or not.
14:23:54 We've already, I mean, essentially, so far, we've already only discussed a conditional use permit for all types of GUI dark aquaculture, be it new.
14:24:02 Expanded or converted. So just to be trying to be clear on that, I know it's difficult.
14:24:05 There's a lot of moving parts here. In terms of your other question about consistency with other with neighboring master programs essentially.
14:24:15 I guess I would say that a couple of things. One is that ecology is specifically told us and I verbatim from our shoreline planner who used to work for Justin County just so
happens Michelle Connell And she said that, you know, just because.
14:24:27 A neighboring jurisdiction adopted a certain policy and it both survived or you know it was approved by colleges does not mean that if you do the exact same thing your policy
will be approved.
14:24:36 Now I don't know how to. Translate that other than to say that's what she told me so I guess I take that to mean like every jurisdiction has its own issues.
14:24:45 And the consistency for me comes comes into play because we have A common act, the shoreline management act, and then we have a common set of rules.
14:24:54 The whack. For at the for developing S and Ps and that whack has changed over time.
14:24:59 Like if you look at the sort of the SMA in a sort of unedited version, that's kind of like one of those early environmental laws, right?
14:25:05 Like from the seventys and stuff. And then over time as we collectively in the state learned a lot, especially around Puget Sound, the whack changed significantly and I made
it a lot of requirements that kind of in some ways were borrowed from critical areas type thinking from the Growth Manager neck, 1990 and 20 years later from the SMA and then and basically
another 1015 years after that is when washed out
14:25:26 to the I washed up. When a college did the big update to the whack and so There's a lot of new information there that, you know, almost looks in congruent from the SME in terms
of like how, how it's presented but in any case I guess I would say that for me the consistency comes around knowing that ecology has to approve your SNP and that you have to follow
the
14:25:45 whack. And so after that, I think there is room for local governments just like under GMA planning to make decisions that are specific to our situation, our coastline.
14:25:54 I mean, there's a reason why we have to do shoreline mapping along all of our coasts to see exactly what we have.
14:25:59 Compared to some other county like King County. So I guess I would say that that's my answer.
14:26:05 There's perhaps some benefit to having some level of consistency, you know, across putting out like someone pointed out, but on their, on the other hand.
14:26:13 We are told essentially through the act to do these certain things. We have the work to follow. And, we have those decisions to make on our own to however we want to do that.
14:26:22 We want to mirror what a neighboring county is done? Great. If we don't, I think that's perfectly fine.
14:26:26 Lisa, did you have anything to that?
14:26:26 Thank you.
14:26:30 Josh, I think, you said it all really well. It's up to each jurisdiction and I've tended to see.
14:26:36 That. Especially where ecology has conditional use. Authority in the rules. That gives that some sort of common level of review and then it's up to each jurisdiction if there
is some latitude in the rules.
14:26:56 To decide that here it's going to go to ecology regardless as Josh has mentioned before. So that gives that sort of common view and I think you you have some latitude on your
own process.
14:27:06 Wherever the rules allow. I would also say Josh too, I I have not seen as many administrative conditional use flavors.
14:27:19 I've seen a few others that have either administrative or just a standard, but you have a few different flavors I think to try to give that custom.
14:27:28 Approach to uses. So and I do think that when ecology started this periodic update with the county.
14:27:37 The county was identified as having some of the highest use of conditional use force. For some uses but this did not come up as one of them it was about non-conforming structures,
beach access structures, mooring buoys, things like that.
14:27:54 It was not to do with with this activity.
14:27:57 Wish, thank you for your money with that. I know, I know Commissioner Brotherton is aware of this because he was part of that early planning process that started this whole
thing, but that is something that we've attempted to address in this.
14:28:08 Update is to is to mix some of those activities simpler, essentially not require conditional uses for those when we have other strongly permitting processes that would handle
all the conditions we'd like to put on a permit.
14:28:22 And so we'll have fewer in theory, fewer conditional uses, regardless of how we got there, hearing, in or not.
14:28:29 Fewer conditions, permits going to ecology for ultimate approval. And so that's part of this proposed update.
14:28:36 Thank you for all of that. Super helpful. Okay, I do. So.
14:28:48 You covered this a little bit in the answer to that question, but are there other? I'm trying to figure out like thresholds for standard versus administrative conditional use
permit.
14:29:02 Just are there other thresholds that you can describe? Or when those things are when one or the other are triggered.
14:29:13 Not just an SDP, but throughout our code. You know. Weighing the decision ahead of us.
14:29:26 It would just be interesting to know how we apply. The similar logic or thought processes to other. Thresholds where we do either administrative or standard conditional use
permits.
14:29:41 Does that make sense?
14:29:50 The table
14:29:54 Okay.
14:29:44 Yes, it does and I'm trying to look, while you were talking. I was listening and trying to find Where we have I know we have criteria for making that decision for the administrative.
14:29:59 I think I found it. Review process. So I'm just gonna post something in the chat.
14:30:05 It's the basic. I don't know if you're gonna find Sort of I guess everything you're looking for here though, Commissioner Eisenhower because this is just some general criteria
about how we decide when we have a discretionary conditional use.
14:30:20 What to do with it? I will tell you that it happens fairly frequently, just not, not in the world of gooey.
14:30:27 Dot culture, you know, but but we have this kind of situation up here with some degree of frequency and those decisions have are made and have been made up until now.
14:30:35 Just to let you know. That it's not uncommon to face this. Now.
14:30:41 If we wanted to have more specific thresholds, we could put some thought into that and we could decide to do that.
14:30:49 It'd be challenging, I think, to do so, but we could do that if that would.
14:30:53 Help the decision. That's one path. Forward. Like I say, we have a percentage around other kinds of aquaculture, but not GUI dark, but that can be a similar type of thing if
we wanted to talk about, for example, expansions.
14:31:06 And by the way, we did. Offer as one variation of the policy for the planning commission to consider.
14:31:12 Would be. To treat expansions and. Conversions differently. Cause right now they're treated the same.
14:31:22 Expansions and conversions are. But we but we had a version where we took expansion and we put it together.
14:31:29 The new and had conversions being something like the wax suggests. And just in the voting of that of that day when we went back to planning commission they decided to stick
with the earlier proposal which just differentiated a bit.
14:31:42 And I guess I wanna make a quick comment. I think I heard something to the effect of.
14:31:48 We've asked more than once about a rationale for why There's differences proposed differences in the table according to shoreline environment designation for these different.
14:31:59 Variations of what might be proposed and where for And I guess I would say that I did.
14:32:07 I know I answered that question more than once. I guess I would just say that the answer wasn't satisfactor obviously to those parties, but We did answer, I did answer the question,
which is because.
14:32:19 We were also listening to a lot of the stuff that you're hearing now, just different variations, different viewpoints on this.
14:32:25 And when I sat down with Michelle and Ecology to talk about this. She pointed out this 2,009 report about GUI Duck Aquaculture, which later resulted in the whack change.
14:32:34 Which we didn't incorporate into our 2,014 SMP update because we were too far along with that that have been like years in the making because of another controversial issue.
14:32:44 And so, anyway, the 2,009 report, even though it's that old, it had pertinent information at the time which was and suggestions so And one of those suggestions was that It's
important the place matters, right?
14:32:58 So it's important what your upland troll and environment destination is and in our case we have both aquatic and the priority aquatic as well within the aquatic.
14:33:06 Not every jurisdiction has that, by the way. So it was basically suggesting that if you're going to make this planning decisions around where commercial occupying particular
GUI duck is appropriate or not appropriate or where it should be considered a little more carefully than taking into account the upland shoreline jurisdiction.
14:33:23 Environment designation, is, is a good idea. That's essentially what that report says.
14:33:28 That's what Michelle told me. And so when we started talking about we started this is one way we could sort of put a little bit more thought into.
14:33:35 Into our policies and one way we thought about doing that was hey we have this own tool that we have which separates out a full-blown conditional use from an administrative
conditional use.
14:33:46 Perhaps we could put a discretionary tag on some of those that are in areas that. See more or already have aquaculture operations or see more appropriate for that versus those
that don't or should be more concerned should be should be placed on others.
14:34:00 And maybe some of that discretion pulled away and just put into a hearing examiner's hands for a decision.
14:34:04 So that was really the rationale behind that. I know. That Maybe that is long winded or doesn't make sense to everybody or people just don't see why we would have done that
but that's That's essentially what the thought pattern was.
14:34:17 Let me ask a very specific, of course question pertaining to this that would be really helpful.
14:34:25 Can I say the, the story map was really hard to find on the SMP page?
14:34:31 Like you just go back to 2,020. So just I don't know if it would be helpful to make that more visible, but.
14:34:38 I was glad to find it and caught me with the shoreline designations. I'm not seeing anything other than.
14:34:46 Aquatic and priority aquatic, but am I reading the colors wrong and looking at our.
14:34:53 Marine Water shoreline. I think most of the conservancy was fresh water. Right, but so it.
14:34:59 So, so let me just show me quickly. So aquatic is water word of ordinary high water work in shoreline nomenclature.
14:35:08 And the upland designation or the shoreline environment designation is are things like, natural.
14:35:17 Conservancy.
14:35:21 Hi, intensity is one of those and Lisa's hopefully gonna point that out right now. And so that's like that shorelands aspect where you get 200 feet.
14:35:30 Landward from the ordinary high watermark plus associated wetlands. So that's the shorelands.
14:35:36 Part. And so that's why you get the different colors here like the aquatic part goes out to our like hat if we're talking about hooking out we go halfway out there and then
our neighboring county to the east, you know, meets us halfway in the water, I guess, just like when you see.
14:35:50 The signs on hooking off floating bridge when you're crossing into one county the other which by the way used to be wrong they used to be the Jefferson County one was way over
towards us just FYI I remember pointing that out to watch that once and I don't know if that had anything to do with them changing or they just rebuilt the we built the bridge.
14:36:06 But anyway, you know, so we our jurisdiction goes out halfway to wherever it is on the other side, right?
14:36:12 But the shore lands part is only that 200 foot plus. Stretch and that's where you get the shoreline environment designation for the uplands we've got conservancy high intensity
national and shoreline residential.
14:36:25 Follow up question on that.
14:36:31 Trying to zoom in enough to see like. Looking at. Shine road, for example.
14:36:40 So that yellow ribbon along. The blue is that's the residential.
14:36:49 Okay, thank you.
14:36:52 Yeah, I know that round shine like right near the bridge right south of the bridge and and west, it's if I remember correctly, is natural and then it gets more into residential
as you just get more of the proliferation of the houses along Shine Road.
14:37:05 Correct. Okay, thank you. Sorry.
14:37:05 So, a termination point for example is natural. Let's see there and then it gets to be shoreline residential from there.
14:37:13 Yep.
14:37:12 Okay, great. Thank you. Go ahead, Heidi. No, no, this, this is all.
14:37:18 So the Last premeditated question I had. Was.
14:37:26 Also about the difference between a standard CUP versus an administrative. See you, P and. It might the answer my I'm trying to scroll through this.
14:37:40 Link you just sent. Maybe I'll still ask my question anyway, but. These are all different things with the administrative, the use table from chapter 15.
14:37:52 I guess. The nut of my question is how much? How much extra work is it to do a standard CUP versus, administrative seat?
14:38:04 Okay, so, the basic, because this is just irrespective of the shoreline master program.
14:38:10 Yeah, yeah.
14:38:11 If a person wants to apply for land use and it's a capital C, it's a conditional use permit.
14:38:19 It will be more expensive. And I'll take more time. And there will be more staff work associated with that.
14:38:24 Yeah, Okay.
14:38:26 The I would let's just focus on the sea first like the sea, is our sort of almost most complex permit, you know, if you do a long plot or something else, you know, that has
a lot of steps to.
14:38:38 Including going to the board, the final plot approval. But, but I conditioning this permit, you're what you're paying for is you're paying for the base fee of a regular conditional
use plus what we estimate or what the average cost will be to go to the hearing.
14:38:55 Of course, then we have a separate contract with that third party individual and we pay that person when we get the bill, right?
14:39:00 Sometimes We have to chart we have to go back to the applicant and get more money because, it was very complicated.
14:39:06 We had a case just recently, for example, that had multiple days of hearings. In that case, it was quite expensive.
14:39:11 But otherwise, we have a standard cost. It is more expensive than getting a an administrative conditional use.
14:39:19 The reason why as an administrative condition is that decision is just made by the development code administrator. So there still will be a staff report.
14:39:29 Okay.
14:39:26 If there's Siba involved, that would be the same cost. Because, you still have noticing, so the public notice appears right now.
14:39:35 We have the requirement to put in the legal notices in the paper of record and then we have the adjacent property owners notice and so forth and then collecting and sort of
handling all those comments, responding to those comments in a staff report, all of that's the same.
14:39:50 It's just that the decision then is either going to be with the development code administrator or with this third party in the hearings ever.
14:39:59 And I will say that the time element, it'll be significantly more time. In general, for conditional for a full long conditional use permit because We have to schedule that hearing
with that individual and there could be a capacity issue, depends of course.
14:40:11 And then of course, we're also have My experience so far since I've rejoined DCD is we've had very little control over how long that takes.
14:40:20 There was some language in the hearing, a rules. Just kind of a side note here, but.
14:40:26 That language really wasn't being followed in the procedural rules and essentially were. Sort of at the whim of I would say of how long it's gonna take that we've had some commissioners
that have taken.
14:40:38 Several months to get the decision. So just that's just a reality check on the condition use aspect going to a type 3.
14:40:46 And Josh, isn't there also an additional cost that comes from the straight conditional use often and subject matter experts that that aren't in the administrative ones as much
or at least that's been my experience watching some of these hearings.
14:40:58 Where you have doing subject matter experts that, you know, in both sides of the issue are end up spending a lot of money on that or potentially can.
14:41:07 I guess what I say every case is different like So there are complex cases and generally the more complex cases go to the full blown conditional use just by policy.
14:41:18 That's the reason why we even have like that's one of the types of judgment calls. If there's a discretionary that the that the code administrator would make, Hey, this is going
to be complex enough.
14:41:26 There's going to be enough interested parties or there might be sort of dueling experts factor even going on here just like a court of law so That's all reasons to to push it
towards conditioning.
14:41:38 You so I'd say in general, Mr. Brotherton, you write that. Because the general policy of ours is that the most complex ones in most potentially controversial items go to a hearing
examiner, and more potentially controversial items go to a, potentially controversial items go to a hearing examiner, then naturally you would think that there'd be more room there
for, expert opinion, etc, to be evaluated by the decision
14:41:58 maker. That's not to say though that every single administrative, to use is sort of absent those things.
14:42:02 Sometimes we will get our special report and if it's really rare that this happens, but sometimes we get that report and we're like, yeah, I don't know, this doesn't seem right.
14:42:13 And so, and, and just based on our experience with others, or we have, you know, informal consultations and we decide that we're going to send that out for third party review
which we've done before and that's what the code allows us to do just not very often.
14:42:24 So I guess I would say it's not black and white like that, but I think you're onto something in the sense that most cases that go to a conditional use a process with a hearing
center for a reason.
14:42:42 That was the end of my list of little questions. I might come up with more though. Yeah, can I follow down the same path a little bit?
14:42:50 Please do. So. In looking at the the use. Table.
14:43:00 And I'm going to focus mostly on the GUI duck right now, which is, you know, obviously something we've.
14:43:07 Spending a lot of time on.
14:43:11 I guess knowing the. I'm of 2 minds and in some ways I feel like knowing that this compatibility visual analysis aesthetic.
14:43:23 Is already a little bit blurry. In the whack. It's subjective to begin with.
14:43:33 And we know that it's there's a pretty fired up. Stakeholder group. Concerning this issue.
14:43:42 In some ways, I think moving that to the standard, CUP makes a lot of sense and there's just more people where there's going to be more conflicts and more opinions, which I
think is likely to lead to more appeals, a more complicated process.
14:43:57 So In some ways, I would advocate for removing the discretionary from residential. And yet, you know, the the industry shellfish industry would point out that And the tribes
point this out to me all the time.
14:44:12 It's actually residential development causes more damage to the environment than just about anything. So if it's already compromised.
14:44:19 You know, that maybe that is the ideal place, but I think practically we are going to see a lot of.
14:44:29 Challenges if, you know, if indeed the discretionary portion were exercised and it was decided not to go in front of the hearing examiner.
14:44:39 I think that we would see a lot of appeals. So I'm a little bit. I'm up to minds on it, but I guess I would still lean towards.
14:44:46 Eliminating some of that uncertainty with just going with a standard CUP on shoreline residential.
14:44:52 And then actually I'm, I'm. Probably lean towards, removing discretionary then from some of the others.
14:45:03 Am I, am I crazy is my logic way off here? Lisa and Josh?
14:45:14 This is usually where I say I can't comment on. I'm from an armchair psychologist perspective and I'm pretty darn sure you're not crazy.
14:45:22 They got safe to say. I think you are on to something. I also want to say that, you know.
14:45:28 As far as I'm concerned, in terms of My departments planning perspective on this issue. Wherever the board wants to go.
14:45:38 Would be just fine. And that and that's what we said to the planning commission when we gave him those choices.
14:45:43 We said, you know, go anywhere in here and we're comfortable that, for example, the cumulative impact analysis and our other assumptions are are gonna, are gonna survive that,
choice. So I think it is up to you.
14:45:55 I will point out, and actually I'm going to turn to Lisa on this one because this is where it gets a little tricky.
14:45:58 As well. Okay, so many, many. Proposed uses. And construction and development in shoreline jurisdiction.
14:46:10 Reside landward of ordnance of the ordinary, just think, you know, someone builds a house within 200 feet of the ordinary high.
14:46:17 Someone builds. A set of steps down to the beach. Someone wants a dock, right? And the dock usually starts.
14:46:25 So all of those are examples of things that you take into account. From on the use table, natural over to high intensity.
14:46:32 But you notice that right up up that it says landward of ordinary high. Aquaculture is one of those things that Generally, I mean, 98% of it, you would say perhaps.
14:46:44 I mean, that's just throwing that number out on a real number, of course, but take place in the aquatic environment.
14:46:47 So really the only 2 super important ones there are the priority aquatic an aquatic and what the asterisk explains essentially that when you get into the details If there's
a decision, we take into account what the, what the land word.
14:47:03 Shoreline environment destination is, but the overarching policy is, is either is either governed by priority aquatic or aquatic.
14:47:11 Now there's possibility of having upland features to an aquaculture operation like for example on the Voltin Peninsula you have Taylor's upland facilities that are associated
with their muscle wraps out there.
14:47:25 So that's an example of something or you could have a doc that has both a, you know, it's a commercial doc that's associated with the agricultural operation or and so forth
but Really like it's the aquatic environment that's the overarching important factor.
14:47:37 Lisa, do you want to jump in on this? Because I know this was something that We talked about the plan commission.
14:47:41 It was difficult to explain and and we we even talked about like blanket out the rest of those boxes and we just decided to stick to what the 2,014 program was all about.
14:47:51 Yeah, I think. It seems like, aquaculture is largely taking place in water and we couldn't think of an upland.
14:48:02 Modification, but, I think to be consistent with the way that other. Uses are if there was an upland component then there's There's a place for the staff to interpret what to
do.
14:48:17 It could be a staging area. Could be some other activity, I suppose, Josh. So I think we tried to follow the guidance that Josh referenced earlier, the 2,009 study that.
14:48:31 You know, suggested varying the permit. Type by. The sensitivity and features of the upland environment.
14:48:43 As well as the aquatic environment.
14:48:48 And I think. Tends to be that that shoreline residential and high intensity are more disturbed already developed areas because that is sort of like what's the common use along
a reach.
14:49:06 Will have factored into. The initial environment designations. Conservancy tends to be parks or There's some, there's some uses the site is being managed for, but it's largely,
there's still.
14:49:22 Ecologic functions intact or public access priorities that tends to be what conservancy is.
14:49:31 And natural is it. You know, generally less touched and still mostly intact.
14:49:41 Hmm.
14:49:46 Yeah, I think where I landed in my. In my if I were to be assigning, I would.
14:49:53 You have residential. Conservancy and priority aquatic be a standard CUP. Of aquatic natural and high intensity be discussionary.
14:50:05 Yes, yeah, that's why I was focusing on this. You restate that. Yes.
14:50:14 Residential conservancy and priority aquatic be standard CUP. Aquatic, natural, and high intensity be discretionary.
14:50:26 Is that is it? Listed outside? Wait, what page are you? Yeah, the use table on page, 64 of the draft.
14:50:37 The text.
14:50:41 But I don't know, looking at the same version. Hmm.
14:50:46 Would it be helpful if I shared my screen with that table?
14:50:53 Okay.
14:50:49 Sure, I, or I have got it now, but did probably helpful to share it. Okay. Hmm.
14:51:00 You seeing a table? Okay.
14:51:01 Yeah. So what I'm suggesting is a relatively minor and I should say I actually think new and expansion or conversion.
14:51:11 Our. I would be fine keeping those the same. So the changes over this draft you're suggesting are one more time.
14:51:22 Well, and I'm suggesting combining them to not not separating out new expansion or conversion. Okay.
14:51:31 Well, I should.
14:51:35 I that I have not actually given enough thought to that. But.
14:51:41 If I could jump in just to just to explain what it means right now as proposed just to try to, ivia any concern about or confusion around that.
14:51:51 So. As Lisa pointed out. No, I must all, a culture would be in the aquatic environment and would either be the priority aquatic or the regular aquatic if you will.
14:52:03 And so we would look at that table and any, doc in the. Priority aquatic would be a standard conditional use permit process.
14:52:14 And in the aquatic. The new GUI dark would be standard and the expansion or conversion would be a discretionary conditional use permit unless the upland designation were natural
and then it would be standard.
14:52:31 That's how that reads. Right now, just so you know.
14:52:34 Hmm. And it, it would take a lot of water to grow. Over the high water market. It's probably not that likely.
14:52:44 But But are you saying you Always take into consideration the land word. Designation.
14:52:55 I'm saying that yes, we do in the. Permit review process from just a conceptual standpoint, like where are we talking about like, yeah, of course we're in the aquatic, but where
are we talking about here?
14:53:08 And so. But from a this table perspective, I am saying that the only time we would actually that actually counts in terms of dictating in a sense what happens next or what kind
of permit process would we would use.
14:53:21 Would be if we were an aquatic. And then it would be discretionary unless The upland designation were natural, in which case we would say, well, It's discretionary technically,
but because we're talking about a natural designation for and they're usually designated that way for a really good reason.
14:53:41 Right.
14:53:42 We're gonna say that that's gonna be a standard conditional use permit. We're not gonna go with the discretionary on that one.
14:53:46 That's what that.
14:53:46 Right. And why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you also do that for conservancy?
14:53:53 We could, there's a lot of conservatives. There's not that much natural.
14:53:57 There's a lot of conserv. I mean, again, you could do anything to simplify the whole thing.
14:54:01 You could just say see across the board and that would certainly simplify it and that's where the Plan Commission was couple of years ago before diving into this a little more
deeply.
14:54:10 And perhaps, you know, we muddy the waters, if you will, but it was based on that discussion with aology.
14:54:15 Do you have to remember from ecology standpoint? I guess I would say I would characterize it this way.
14:54:21 Lisa, I'm looking for you to corroborate this too or from your perspectives having worked with them a lot more.
14:54:25 On SMPs around around the state, but I would say that College is general perspective is that the SMA is a balancing act.
14:54:35 It's very important to protect. The waterfront and the aquatic environment. And it's also important to make room for water dependent uses and aquaculture is one of those preferred
uses.
14:54:48 And as you know, like having been some tension in the past between Jefferson County and ecology on a specific other kind of aquaculture.
14:54:58 Like that's where they're coming from, in I would say in this regard. So that's why when they told us.
14:55:01 You know, if you buried it a little bit, that would that would make more sense from a policy perspective from their standpoint.
14:55:08 Now, I don't think that if I really don't think that if we just said it's going to be seized across the board that they would.
14:55:13 You know, not approve our master program like that, but I guess you never know until that actually happens
14:55:20 I guess Josh the only thing I would add to what you said is really more of the local. Context, which is I think what ecology is looking for is looking at that policy advice
from 2,009 with where they sat down with.
14:55:36 Experts. And discussion groups, but also I think if we look through the lens of regulatory reform as you have.
14:55:47 That would be your local. Sort of area of focus. So first, you need to meet the SMA requirements, you know, and that's secondarily where you might have choices that might be
a deciding factor and I think that's that combined with the policy.
14:56:05 Paper and research that ecology did. To vary based on sort of local conditions led us to this. In between.
14:56:18 Approach that I think was trying to account for more. Issues.
14:56:22 You know, I would just add as well that, you know, through that and maybe Lisa, you were paying attention to this whack process back in like a decade or so ago, maybe a little
bit more now.
14:56:31 But ecology did decide after all that research was done and all this stakeholder involvement and including organizations with different perspectives about the impact of our
culture.
14:56:41 They decided that the whack should say that new GUI dark culture is a conditional use period.
14:56:47 Of course, when then, they don't, they're not talking about the process again. They're just talking about shoreline conditioners for they have the ultimate approval authority.
14:56:53 And the discretion lies in the local government lies on how you deal with conversions of existing aquaculture to from some other use.
14:57:01 To go. And So far anyway, we have not decided like Mason County did, it seems. That conversions wouldn't require a conditional use.
14:57:11 We said actually that they would. We just quibbled essentially or talked about our own prerogative about what kind of process it would take to convert.
14:57:19 And I guess from my standpoint as a former code administrator, We still get some file sometimes in the permanent decisions.
14:57:25 You know, there is it to me there is a difference between you've got an existing aquaculture operation, you know, how long has it been there, how big is it, what's what kinds
of use, what's the situation there and you're converting from what?
14:57:38 Are you converting from long lines or you can burning from flip backs? I mean, what are you doing to convert that to GUI? Doc?
14:57:44 And what's the new, do we do kind of look like. And so That's all kind of discretion.
14:57:46 So there therefore would be automatically kicked this over a hearing, or would we make a call about what that is?
14:57:52 And that's that's really what that was about. And then the expansion thing, I really it was kind of mirroring what Jefferson County has done in the patch.
14:58:00 Through the last master program talked about when an existing aquaculture operation that didn't have to get shoreline premise before would have to get one.
14:58:10 And they talked about how, well, if you're expanding over 25%, that's a trigger for having to get a shoreline permit.
14:58:17 So I was kind of going off that riffing off that essentially. Again, there is no percentage on GUI D.
14:58:23 It's any expansion. But in my mind, you've got an existing goo dock operation and you're tagging an acre onto it.
14:58:28 Okay, that's a difference then you're You know, I realize that someone said that, well, any new anchor is a new and you know, that's another way of looking at it.
14:58:37 And so, and that's perfectly reasonable as well. But I would argue that it's also reasonable.
14:58:41 From a regulatory standpoint to say you've got 50 acres of GUI duck and you're adding an acre not to say that that's what would have this is totally you know thought experiment
but let's just say that's a difference between you're doubling it in size or you go on, you know, 50% bigger or whatever.
14:58:56 And so that's where the judgment would come in. That's why that's why we introduced that concept.
14:59:02 Again, it's kind of attracted a lot of it has attracted a lot of attention and so it's a, in some ways, I wonder in retrospect putting this on you now is was the wise choice
and I apologize.
14:59:14 Okay.
14:59:15 If that's now you've got it but you know nonetheless these are very interesting things you have completely conflicting.
14:59:20 Perspective from the industry, including those not just the folks that run the industry, but the people that work for the industry.
14:59:29 And then you've got a group of shoreline landowners and others with their environmental perspective that's completely different but as you pointed out Again, to say that.
14:59:38 The aquaculture industry is responsible for. For all of the degradation would not be fair, of course, because as we've found out just by doing the research and by having our
own program where we try to identify failing safety systems and come up with funding sources to replace those that we know that human contribution, especially through failing septics,
but not exclusively through failing septics through stormwater runoff in a variety of other
15:00:02 ways, also degrades the shoreline. So.
15:00:07 Is commercial. Is it is it considered to? I think I know the answer to it that it is not, but it is, would it not be considered? I don't know how to ask this.
15:00:24 It's a double. The no-net loss of shoreline ecological function, which is required.
15:00:31 Does she have commercial GUI duck production? Qualify as. Degrading shoreline ecological function or does it meet the known at loss standard?
15:00:45 That's the fastest any question Lisa, do you want to jump on that first? From your perspective?
15:00:50 I was just doing a search through the whack. I believe it is subject to known at last provisions, but I think the state crafted the rules and And the criteria on the basis of
if you have these criteria in place.
15:01:08 An appropriate process you should be able to achieve that. I think that's. Some
15:01:15 Yeah, this is really tricky. I guess I would jump in and say that. You know, we're required to meet the standard from a policy standpoint and then our regulations are supposed
to maintain this.
15:01:27 Framework on a permit by permit basis. Which can get difficult, but that's why we have, you know, environmental review.
15:01:34 That's why we have conditions. I know that we've got some feedback that we have. You know, too many conditions or what have you, but I guess I would say simply like for some
of that, like, you know, we have, if the criticisms that we have redundant regulations or that if you if the federal government is requiring this one report, why would you require it?
15:01:50 I guess I'd say that great. That means you produced it for the federal government wants you, you know, what you're doing.
15:01:56 You know, I didn't really quite understand what you're doing. You know, I didn't really quite understand why you wouldn't just give us what you've already done.
15:01:59 In fact, that seemed like there's some efficiency there. But anyway, I mean, it is tricky.
15:02:03 Absolutely, to regulate on a permit by permit basis because everyone can always say, well, why can't I have my house this close or where I my dock this way or whatever and then
it's that sort of the 1,000 cuts metaphor like well.
15:02:15 And which we've been pointed out to by others. I guess I would say that it depends on who you ask about knowing it lost in terms of aquaculture and If you were to ask.
15:02:26 You know, fish and wildlife for an opinion or DNR for opinion with their aquatic.
15:02:37 It's about
15:02:31 Stand on aquatic land program. Or ecology, you might actually get 3 answers.
15:02:38 I just put into the whack, or the chat, the whack that does reference, at the last line that.
15:02:48 That the SNP should be regulating. As necessary to assure no net loss. I think the only thing that's not.
15:02:58 Addressed as wild. Well, Okay.
15:03:06 Which I also want to mention like I'm certainly not prepared to spout off data economic figures and so forth but I can tell you for a fact that when I work for DNR.
15:03:16 The wild gooey duck. Harvest like there's actual tracks that are all around PGA sound and
15:03:25 That's a huge business. Like. When when we were in an international dispute with China and And that resulted in China deciding not to purchase, from this area that had a huge
hit on the DNR bottom line.
15:03:43 It was actually quite remarkable. So I just I'm saying that there's a bigger world than just the intertidal GUI duck that we're talking about here with Charlotte P. There's
the wild.
15:03:53 Harvest, which is a whole nother world that has a significant travel component and. Is on an auction basis and just as a whole another world.
15:04:03 Kind of side note really.
15:04:04 Well, in terms of ecological function, no net loss, I mean, there it's It's a, I mean, I think a commonly known fact that Good.
15:04:15 Provide ecosystem services like water cleaning and nutrition. So you know, how do you balance those contributions to the Eco system against any.
15:04:29 Loss or impact to the ecosystem. Are those clean water functions part of the? The no net loss of ecological function.
15:04:42 Are they factored in? It seems like it's a complicated. how much carbon in this question? Right.
15:04:52 How much carbon are there in those shells anyway? It's met, you know, your dad's supposed to be, right, a consideration.
15:04:57 The cost and benefits. So it's, you know, I don't know, that's part of the equation.
15:05:02 Right, is the contributions, the positive aspects of the. Fishery.
15:05:12 Greg, you've been quiet. Well, I've got lots to contribute when we deliberate, but I feel like, most of me.
15:05:19 Lisa, you answered all my modest phone, questions. So I appreciate that very responsive.
15:05:25 You know, it's really it's hard to parse a lot of this and Honestly, the difference between having that little D there, I'm not sure how much it will functionally be, so I don't
think it's a.
15:05:38 Hill that I want to cultivate GUI duck on. But that was maybe a little script.
15:05:47 I guess we can't do it on a house. We just let them like to die on the hill.
15:05:54 It's sounded like to me like the little d equals more time due to scheduling a hearing exam. It sounded like to me like the little D equals more time due to scheduling a hearing
examiner, right? No, opposite.
15:06:02 Oh, less Okay. Yeah. And still, like big C, little D is means discretionary. Sometimes they could say, oh, we really should have a hearing and sometimes it could be an administrative
review.
15:06:13 And I think as you pointed out, Kate, undoubtedly, and sometimes it could be an administrative review.
15:06:16 And I think as you pointed out, Kate, undoubtedly be a appeals for a, you know, probably even a conversion that goes through.
15:06:21 I mean, I guess. A frustrating. Bit of this conversation for me is We're getting so much data from the opponents to GUI duck.
15:06:31 Cultivation that I think is really backing up an aesthetic argument with innovative data that can be found and it feels.
15:06:40 Disingenuous. And I guess we're trying to track the net. Gain of a GUI duck.
15:06:49 I look to our account plan. I look to the state that says this is a primary use and I guess I give deference to the side of.
15:06:58 Of industry, you know, I mean, I understand it would be A real eyesore to have, you know, every, you know, however many 1,000 per, per acre, a little tube showing every low
tide and sometimes that's going to end up in plastic on the beach as aquaculture does everywhere.
15:07:17 With all the other plastic that we wash into the ocean still, right? So it's a I guess I feel like we're putting a lot.
15:07:24 Like all of these different ecological. Questions and and you know cost benefit analysis onto this head of a pen.
15:07:33 When. I like, I like the recommendation. I feel like it splits the difference where we still give the conditional use.
15:07:43 Hearing you know for new GUI duck operations but as we trust our department to parse when that's necessary.
15:07:54 I mean Kate and I were both here for the, the marijuana conditional use permit, you know, the commercial producer processor.
15:08:02 And that was a really political environment as well. And I went to so many of those hearings and that's where I, you know, saw that, oh yeah, they're just.
15:08:11 You know just trading who gets the odor analyst and who gets the sound analyst and it's I react really negatively to that kind of buildup of process that enables people to.
15:08:25 Stop things they don't want to happen. So I'm inclined usually to let people.
15:08:31 Develop as is appropriate and in this case it's you know with a lot of conditions it's the recommended path of our pump plan.
15:08:41 I mean honestly if we took our guiding documents and said is it better to have a house or a gooey that farm?
15:08:48 I think every day of the week, that's my interpretation. So. With tribal recommendations and. And industry saying one thing I guess that's sorry I did start to deliver.
15:09:00 I've been trying not to jump, jump, jump the, jump, that's kind of where I'm coming from.
15:09:08 Evan. Another, I guess, logistics question about the process. The, there's been a few comments about the redundancy of environmental review, specifically one citing Noah's programmatic
biological assessment.
15:09:26 Can you guys talk anything about that? Like. How, how does, how, Mike, I guess my question more specifically might help you answer it.
15:09:35 How does other review done by other agencies factor into? Our DCDs. Discretionary conditional use process versus our conditionally used process.
15:09:48 Or if it's both ways. How do you consider? Other environmental studies by other agencies.
15:09:58 Okay, thank you for the question. I'll start out same program. I've, Lisa.
15:10:03 Has something to add. So. In our Regulatory environment in Western Washington and really around Puget Sound.
15:10:14 There are just a variety of agencies and regulations involved. Just the way it is. And we can lament that or wish that it were different, but the fact is that even under state
law, the fact is that even under state law There are different objectives trying to be accomplished by those statutes and corresponding rules.
15:10:33 And I hinted at it before by saying that Shoreline Management Act 60 talks about preferred uses and.
15:10:41 Things like that whereas Say like the hydraulic code is specific to fish habitat. That's what that's about.
15:10:50 That's about protecting water quality and habitat integrity. For fish species essentially including shellfish. Very particular, in terms of the federal rules that you said,
so you've got The Harbors Act and the Clean Water Act and in different jurisdiction ways that Army Corps of Engineers gets involved on a permanent basis.
15:11:14 And they have a programmatic permit that I think they're still working on to. Replace the one that was challenged in court and you probably heard some of that in terms of the
testimony and they lost on it.
15:11:26 So. There's a program, in other words, there's a programmatic. Permit a nationwide permits called for aquaculture.
15:11:34 I think it's 48, I remember quickly. Oh. But there was talk about making one specific to Puget Sound because that was a nationwide permit and there's some very particular factors
here, right?
15:11:46 If you can't use the nationwide permit, then you get an individual permit. So, and there was this other process that occurred when that court case happened a few years ago that
existing operations had to get covered, had had to kind of put in for, essentially a temporary permit until such time as the nationwide got fixed.
15:12:07 So there's a lot of stuff going on there, but I guess again, I would say it's specific to those federal statutes and what they're trying to accomplish.
15:12:15 And then the services. Like Noah, and US Fish and Wildlife Service come in through an endangered species act perspective.
15:12:23 That's what they're focused on. And again, that can be very comprehensive like it's a canary in a coal mine if we are saying that, you know, orcas or salmon or something are
sort of the defining species.
15:12:33 And then if we could. Collectively act together to maintain and improve aquatic habitats. And estuaries and so forth and freshwater systems connected such that those species
thrive were sort of handling a lot by that's not just that one species that's going to be positively affected by that but still I would say that's not comprehensive.
15:12:53 Because we have Growth Management Act and we've got Shoreline Management Act.
15:12:56 And there are very different things there that we're being told to do and we do through our local powers and discretion.
15:13:05 And regulatory environment. So I guess I would answer by saying we're not always looking at exactly the same thing.
15:13:10 And also, But there are some commonalities, that's why we have the Joint Aquatic Resources Permit Application or JARPA.
15:13:18 Which an applicant can fill out and submit to multiple agencies including local, state, and federal. For similar permits.
15:13:26 And so I guess I would push back just a little bit on that redundancy argument. I think that there was a little bit of talking pointage going on there where like a lot of people
were heard the talking points and they repeated them but And I'm not it's not to dismiss the concerns at all by any stretch because I don't think it's If we're asking for something
that's not the same.
15:13:47 but. Close enough and this and that like I can see where there may be some overlap or some additional labor that wouldn't have a positive effect.
15:13:54 In terms of our permit-making decisions. But I guess I would say that I go back to what I said a little bit before.
15:13:59 If you're filling out a DARPA. If you're providing the information that is relevant to a hydraulic project approval application or something like that, that's going to be very
similar if not the same stuff is going to be relative for us.
15:14:12 So if they're already being asked by Army Corps to produce this certain study, then just give us a copy of what you've already given army for.
15:14:20 If you've already gone through a NEPA process, a national environmental policy act process, even though we have our own obligations under the state.
15:14:24 Birmingham Policy Act, we may very well be able to adopt that same conclusion. Or what have you, but we need the information to be able to analyze our regulations and see that
and it's been pointed out to you I believe by others commenting that there may be other jurisdictions with some jurisdiction, but I don't know if we can fully just advocate our responsibilities
to them or say that we're not
15:14:45 gonna watch it ourselves because we are the local authority and we have our own Charley Master program which has a wider lens.
15:14:54 From which we look at things. And so I guess I would say that I guess I would push back a little bit on that.
15:14:58 No, if there's parts of that list the requirements or some of the you know details that we can work around.
15:15:03 Completely opened that conversation. We started the conversation with the Planning Commission. They made a few changes.
15:15:08 We made a few changes at the staff slash consultant level when we heard some of that feedback. And I think, for example, that Jamestown.
15:15:16 Scotland tribe when they saw what we changed, they were happy. They were pleased with what we did. So again, everyone's gonna have a different opinion about that, but I think
we already made some changes on this and certainly can entertain more, but I guess I would I would push back on the whole idea that we should just simply because another agency has
a permit that's good enough.
15:15:37 And then, you know, following on to that exact same line of thinking is the thought that.
15:15:40 You know, this for Expansions or conversions that You know, I mean, and I'll just say, I mean, I I grew up on a commercial fishing boat.
15:15:52 I get aquaculture and it's my community and it's you know. It's.
15:16:01 It's also clear to me that the marine environment needs to remain healthy and thriving for that economy, economic sector to continue to exist.
15:16:10 And so it's interesting that in the comments we've gotten there have been a number of references to conversions are expansions.
15:16:19 And 1 one line of comments is, you know, expansions. You know, if someone, maybe someone has a permit for a 40 acre.
15:16:29 Dock operation and they want to add another 40 acres. That 40 acres is essentially going into new area.
15:16:36 It should be treated as a new project. I kinda get that, you know, cause it's a large.
15:16:42 Expansion. It's you know, 100 or 100% expansion of the project. But I also get the.
15:16:52 So I kind of like the idea of a threshold and an acreage threshold or something that we talked about I think in the first few minutes of this conversation.
15:17:00 But the other thing that has resonated for me is that I hear that those shellfish farmers already navigated the permit process.
15:17:14 So I hear that. But in some cases it was decades ago. Before some of these regulations were in place.
15:17:21 To protect the nearshore environment. So I I also Don't agree with that because in a sense, you know, we're talking about a different time.
15:17:33 And you know different endangered species listings or You know, I mean, any factors could have changed in 40 years since someone got an initial.
15:17:44 Aquaculture permit in Jefferson County. So, you know, it's, it are those things considered when these permit applications come in.
15:17:54 To you all. You know, how old are the, how old is the existing use?
15:18:06 First of all, well said. I mean, a lot of the points that you just made, Commissioner, and how are things that That I would say have asked as well to describe a situation.
15:18:16 So your last question. I guess I would say that we have specific rules about legal. Not conforming uses and.
15:18:24 So that comes into play. I think that when we talk about how long a use has been there, that comes into play in terms of.
15:18:33 The factor of just comparing it to a brand new use in a brand new place that hasn't had that kind of use before.
15:18:40 So I think I guess I would say that's certainly one factor in terms of the relevant. Sort of the expiration date of some information we have it in our code for example that
if you submit a special report It's essentially good for 5 years and then after that we'll have to consider whether the information is still valid based on new circumstances.
15:18:58 So that's a factor there. I guess I would say that if someone produces a permit from a federal agency and our understanding is it hasn't been actively managed for a long, long
time.
15:19:08 That's gonna be something we would consider really we have a requirement and when we in our code this says you It's not only that you're getting a permit for us, you need to
maintain your permits with all other regulatory agencies that have permits.
15:19:20 So that's kind of a condition that we use because we may be involved in a kind of a joint compliance situation which we've gotten involved with before certainly with ecology
on shoreline uses so I'm not sure if that answers your question fully, but just wanted to say that yeah, everything you said there, including even thinking about a specific strip threshold,
that's that's something we could continue talking about.
15:19:39 Yeah.
15:19:41 That on a per applicant basis, you thinking or total like county wide. No, I think but, you know, a percentage per, potentially a percentage of expansion.
15:19:55 If an application comes in. And it's proposing to expand. 50% or 100% of it.
15:20:01 Existing area. Then maybe it would be, that would be the threshold at which we would take to a standard conditional.
15:20:11 Use permit versus a discretionary. I get the need for small like small changes. I mean, the need for discretion, right?
15:20:19 But it's It's seems like they're the potential. The potential is so huge.
15:20:26 Of the disparity between the small, the small expansion versus the large expansion or conversion. That it feels like.
15:20:38 I can see, you know, being okay with discretionary permit for a small expansion, but if it's a large expansion.
15:20:45 You know, I kind of feel. Like it should have the full review. Anyway, I don't know.
15:20:52 I just. Thank you.
15:20:51 I understand which I just want to point out one thing just to make sure we're on the same page on this so We're not talking about a Ca, like capital C parentheses small a in
the table.
15:21:02 Yeah
15:21:02 We are talking about small, inaries. That means that Just as an example, you've got a 50 acres of Do we, Duck, and someone wants to expand 5 50% so they're gonna move to 75
acres Then.
15:21:19 I think that, again, I can't speak for the development code administrator, but that's the type of decision that, let's just say you want to double it.
15:21:28 Let's just make it easy, an easy call. Okay, they're gonna double the size of the operation.
15:21:30 Well, I think that Yeah, you would look at that, you'd say, we're gonna have a conditional use, we're gonna full condition use permanent process for that.
15:21:37 Conversely, if someone said we're just You know, we're tacking out 5 or 10 acres here.
15:21:41 Then to a 50 acre thing, then maybe, depending on circumstances. Then that would, a discretionary permit, process would, the discretion would be go to administrative conditions
process for that. That's just an example.
15:21:55 So right now. My understand again, Lisa, again, correct me if I'm wrong on this because in some ways you know you've been familiar with the 2014 master program more than I have.
15:22:05 So my understanding though is that there was a time period. And Jarvis County history where it was decided that.
15:22:14 Basically lower scale and intensity essentially in terms of the infrastructure that you're using aquaculture in Thailand was considered something that didn't require, permit,
whether for use or development.
15:22:28 I think, I think basically because it wasn't considered. Development. But even was like, by the way, part of that overarching debate in the 2,000 s that led to that study for
GUI DAG, one of the reasons.
15:22:39 So Cause I think tubes was even, there was even an opinion about whether those tubes were development or not.
15:22:44 But really, shoreline management is not just about development, but use. So you can argue that you could have a permit anyway.
15:22:51 But bottom line is they decided that there's gonna be a permit. The condition use permit in fact for And that's how the whack was changed.
15:22:57 But, I guess I'm saying so right now our policy has been For a lot of these farms of a variety of types of aquaculture in in our county.
15:23:06 That didn't require a permit at the time they were established and they have been lawfully permitted by say for example army or since then.
15:23:14 That. If they're expanding less than 25% We decided as a policy, I say we, you know, generally because this was already decided years ago.
15:23:24 We're not going to require a shoreline permit for the operation for like basically minor or modest.
15:23:32 Expansions less than 25%. Once you cross that or proposing to cross that threshold then you're gonna need a shoreline permit and that permit will count for this entire legal
non-conforming use, which was another debate by the way during this.
15:23:43 Process but you know we checked in legally that that says generally how it happens like if you have a restaurant you're gonna expand the size and that requires.
15:23:49 For a restaurant they didn't require a permit before and now you're gonna require a permit. Well, now you need a permit for the whole thing kind of thing.
15:23:55 Anyway, so, we could, we could, I think. I'm just really kind of sort of turn into Lisa on this for her expertise, but if we put a similar threshold some kind of percentage,
again any percentage of a GUI duck operation.
15:24:10 Would require a conditional use permit. Just depends on what kind, right? From our own process, but it would be a short like conditions permit, any expansion.
15:24:18 That's the what it says. And so But we could say, and. If that, if that expansion is above a percent, a certain percentage or something like that or a number of acres or whatever
you want to say, that would mean a standard conditional use for versus a discretion.
15:24:42 Of the expansion, but that's it. It is an important factor.
15:24:49 Josh, I think Amy has more of a sense of the history, but what you've said matches my What I've understood and on I think because we're talking about different levels of conditional
use and we're still within the framework of the WAC, I think you can come up with.
15:25:07 Sort of rules of interpretation as to when you go from one to another and it might just help everyone involved.
15:25:16 I think certainty and clarity. Or can be part of this picture. So we could work on.
15:25:23 That. Kind of criteria of the board wishes and bring in me into the loop on this one too and Michelle at ecology as well, I think.
15:25:36 If we were to consider that. Would. Would we want to.
15:25:43 Consider discretionary for priority aquatic as well then.
15:25:53 Good.
15:25:56 As opposed to discretion. I may as well as standard. Yeah, be adding a D. Cause I mean, I like like Greg, you know, this is.
15:26:08 I'm very interested in trying to ensure the feasibility of the shellfish industry here too.
15:26:15 But it's like, you know, all good policies should really get at the impacts, right? The scaled appropriately to address the impacts that you're concerned about.
15:26:27 So there are probably many places where. A discretionary CUP would be adequate for extension and I like the threshold idea to get to that.
15:26:39 Just feel like if we don't have that the potential is vast. Yeah. For impact or for, you know, I mean, fast in either way.
15:26:49 Yeah, yeah, agreed. I still, I still would like to see the shoreline residential move too.
15:27:00 Just a C, which I know is it's upland. I know that's, but that would trigger a still a different consideration for the discretionary if the upland uses.
15:27:10 Standard that. That would. Heavily leaned towards a standard conditional use.
15:27:25 We wanna do any additional thoughts or questions for. My brain's feeling saturated right now. No, I mean, yeah, so, maybe that would be a time, good time to go over the process.
15:27:39 And I mean, I don't think we gave any. Clear direction to these guys as to any modifications, I mean, wanted.
15:27:47 Vote on modifications to this draft. I mean, if we're gonna. You folks. I don't think we can vote.
15:27:54 But we can't vote. Do we say we're gonna take any action on the So like it's just directing staff to bring some.
15:28:17 Well, I mean, we're only talking about alternatives around that use table really. I mean, everything else comes out of that, right?
15:28:24 Yes. So that's the nature of mine. Mike, maybe an option with the threshold for acreage.
15:28:32 Is that one and then. And how do? Yeah, and still, I mean, let me just bring up one more issue, which I don't think there's a good answer for, but, You know, again, if what
we're trying to do is get at the detrimental impacts.
15:28:48 I do. I agree with 90 some percent of what Greg said, but I do worry about the the amount of plastics.
15:28:58 It is like a lot like marijuana where we wanted to consider marijuana production agriculture and the reality is it's very different and I feel that's true here as well.
15:29:06 So I wish there were other ways to get at the impacts of the vast amount of plastic being introduced directly into the marine environment.
15:29:16 And so I'm. I'm curious if there are ways to do that too. You know, explicitly assess the.
15:29:27 Production system in the somewhere in the conditional use process. You know, if, if. There is a containment system for plastics.
15:29:41 That that. I don't know, is somehow taken into consideration. And I really wish that I did the state or industry was addressing this so that we had your tubes and pay for anyone
in the neighborhood.
15:30:05 You know gear has PVC tubes are not the. Current gear type.
15:30:14 N and that there they've moved it is necessary to point out that GUI duck farmers today have mostly abandoned PVC pipe.
15:30:23 And net enclosures and moved to a single reusable mesh polyethylene sleeve that is by design and manufactured to not break down in the marine environment.
15:30:32 There is no shedding of classes associated with this new newer gear. I mean it would just this is the first I'd heard of that.
15:30:40 You know, new right new rule around the gear types. Okay, so it's just awesome.
15:30:47 Some industry is adapting and using that, which that was true when we were going through this a few years ago, Mesh.
15:30:55 Just funny, never breaking down in the rain environment is a good thing until it is loose in the marine environment and it's a bad thing.
15:31:02 So yeah, I mean, there are. Advancements and some growers will use that but that's not you know it's currently don't have any way of like not requiring that.
15:31:14 That'd be the state. And getting the the impact that is of worry to me. Yeah. Hmm.
15:31:21 Josh or Lisa, can, can you think of any way that we can get to, controlling or mitigating the impact.
15:31:28 All that marine plastic is, you heard of any other SMPs that have. Somehow limited the amount of plastics.
15:31:42 I wouldn't have to. Talk with Amy, to see what research she's come up she did more review of the side by side of different example codes.
15:31:55 Well, and I'm not even sure that we could find best available science for this. You know, that I think That's available marketing.
15:32:06 Yeah.
15:32:07 I guess I would say I agree with whichever one of you wisely pointed out that it'd be nice if The Bmp's from the nation went permit from Army Corps would handle this issue completely
and then we wouldn't have to worry about it because again this is actually the opposite of what I was saying before.
15:32:25 Like this, this would be an example of. Accounting government putting on an additional requirement on top of the industry above the B and Ps that are already required.
15:32:32 Right.
15:32:32 From the federal permitting system. So, and I know we had language like that that was pointed out to us, and it had to do with
15:32:42 Sort of the visibility of the predator mitigation. Techniques essentially there's like netting and other things that are used to keep.
15:32:54 Certain birds, etc, away from eating the stuff that people are trying to grow, right, in the Thailand.
15:32:59 Hmm.
15:32:59 And so we said our program or the proposal said something to that effect and and there was push back. Saying that's always not even the smartest thing to do in any given area
because there could be navigational concerns.
15:33:13 Like in other words, if they're so well hidden that then you have vessel traffic coming over and you know getting stuck in your nets and what have you so we kind of we've put
some flexible language around that.
15:33:24 But again, here are those the competing things like there's visibility concerns versus practicality. On this particular issue, I know that we have requirements saying that you're
responsible for the stuff that you put out in the tile lands.
15:33:34 And I thank you for Taylor anyway, say that we are careful around that and you know, it's not our stuff and so forth.
15:33:43 But having worked for DNR, I remember getting calls about stuff. Washing up on, beaches of different, types, not just, that's just gooey deck stuff.
15:33:59 Okay.
15:33:53 And then there was talk about, you know, a particular grow or behavior in a particular place and versus others and, you know, We just think we just take a permit by you got
your regulations and we give a permit or we don't based on those.
15:34:06 In comparison with the proposal and then we have to monitor the proposal and hopefully everyone's doing following exactly to what they're supposed to do from any federal state
and local regs.
15:34:17 But sometimes there is compliance and then it gets tricky. We could talk about. Yeah, I know when DNR did leases, there would be similar language like irresponsible for your
stuff.
15:34:29 You gotta keep it keep it in there and if it gets out of your leasehold you got to deal with it.
15:34:32 And some, remember when there was that muscle off, you know, sometimes. Muscle operations would have those those discs and they would actually be labeled so you can help find
you know who's the source of that you can say hey there's something going on with this one particular operation you got to do something about it.
15:34:47 Even some industry types through that. Pacific Coast Shelters, associations would have kind of work clean up days where they would do a call and people would go clean up pieces
from that association group even if it weren't their sites so I'm aware of that that's actually something they organized on an annual basis at least.
15:35:04 So I guess there's all different approaches that the industry has taken to this issue. I don't know if there's any one size fits all solution.
15:35:13 And I'm not sure if regulating a specific. Approach like that would be something that we would we would choose to do but we I mean that's something we could talk about and we'll
do some research it looks like.
15:35:26 Yeah, I'm just looking at the post here. We would basically come back and talk about this next time we talk about.
15:35:32 I guess that's when if we're starting to get towards it, I guess that's when if we're starting to get towards in this conversation or when we do, that's something I'd be interested
to, talk about is when you want to hear about this next.
15:35:45 So I wasn't sure if there was actually a schedule conflict with Monday the 20Â s or right now I think, Carolyn gave us.
15:35:49 Time like late in the afternoon, I believe it was. And initially thought about and I wasn't sure if that's still on the table or that's not on the table anymore.
15:35:58 That was 3 30.
15:35:56 It's great. 3 30 was one of them. And then February 12.
15:36:05 Okay Okay. Okay.
15:36:05 Yeah, that was for the actual in theory, the ordnance adoption for very 12.
15:36:10 You had a conflict on one of those states, Lord. Both. Right, next week too.
15:36:18 Oh, sorry, January, not okay. Yeah. No, I'm here next week.
15:36:25 20Â s. Yeah.
15:36:25 Right now we have a potential leave scheduled because I'm through Caroline for 3 30 to 4 30.
15:36:31 So an hour. On Tuesday. .
15:36:37 Tuesday? Monday. Wait a second.
15:36:36 To Perhaps. Yeah, sorry, Monday, Monday the 20Â s, 3 30 to 4 3 is what I have on my calendar.
15:36:45 And that would be in theory to, move into more of a deliberations approach where you're actually deciding on some of these specifics.
15:36:53 You already, this is great. I think this is wonderful conversation because you're already kind of getting you know, starting to hit on these things, but perhaps.
15:37:00 You know, making some decisions around what you want the next draft to look like so that when we pair it with an ordinance.
15:37:07 That's what it is. And of course, then you still have that decision point. There. As well, but it gives you at least a couple more touches at this before you've, make your decision.
15:37:18 So the twelfth, Carolyn, are we in the morning now? Is that?
15:37:20 Cause that you said you can do the morning potentially on February 12. So, you're not aware of that timeframe.
15:37:29 But yes, when I was in, we can move to 1030. It was at 1 30.
15:37:33 So can we talk through the process of 20Â s hope to get to what we want in an ordinance and then give.
15:37:38 Staff a couple of weeks to draft the ordinance and bring it back to us on the twelfth. Is that right?
15:37:43 Yep. Okay. And the fifth is not. Just looking at it all the weeks obviously off the 20 ninth.
15:37:55 Is the fifth too soon, Josh, 2 weeks. From the
15:38:00 Hmm.
15:37:57 That, I believe that Barbara. Is the one who suggested the twelfth and I don't blame her because she's got her workload.
15:38:06 I have mine. And we have we have yet to make I would say substantial progress or at least I can speak for myself and I can say that I have not made progress on the ordinance
itself.
15:38:17 I know that we've started the discussion. And there's a lot of other stuff going on.
15:38:20 So I think that that's what we were also making room for something that'd be hard to predict, which is actually coming to, some direction on the 20Â s.
15:38:29 So. I think they would be I think it would be helpful because if you think about from our standpoint in the staff standpoint, we're always turning stuff in or trying to turn
something on a Tuesday for the next Monday, right?
15:38:39 Hmm.
15:38:39 So if we went on the 20Â s, it'd be hard. I guess it's possible for the fifth, but I'm thinking the twelfth is a safer day and I know that's what Barbara suggested.
15:38:46 So I'm just deferring to really her. That's really nice.
15:38:49 That's fine. Would 1030 work 1030 am work on the twelfth for you Josh?
15:38:55 Sure.
15:38:55 Good. And, I mean, it, the types of changes that we are discussing here, which is adding or removing some small d's, adding a potential threshold.
15:39:10 Do those any of those trigger a return to the planning commission?
15:39:17 Okay.
15:39:15 Not from my perspective. I would again, wanna circle back with Barbara to see what she thinks, but from my perspective, Although the Plan Commission didn't specifically discuss
a threshold the concept of a threshold or at least the comparison through some of the testimony of differences in expansion, you know, someone brought up, well, expansion could be this
huge thing or, you know, or so.
15:39:41 I guess I would say that's all within the realm of what's been what's been discussed, studied, analyzed from a SEEPER perspective and all of that, especially since the hearing
is still open, so.
15:39:53 You know, once we get the ordinance in place, that goes back to posting. Posting an ordinance well in advance.
15:39:59 I think that's another reason, Commissioner Dean, why we talked about the twelfth because we wanted sufficient time.
15:40:04 For posting. I remember that.
15:40:04 For hosting an ordinance and giving people time to react to it. Because the last one was like just for someone to feel like they just didn't have enough voice in this.
15:40:14 Like you said, And the funny, of course, as we discuss, as soon as we actually package up our part of the process, we will need a little bit of time with Lisa and Amy to get
everything together.
15:40:25 Because there's the rest of it, right? The whole package that ecology needs to make it a decision.
15:40:32 We're gonna send that off and then kinda wait for them to do their thing, which includes a formal comment period.
15:40:36 So. There you go.
15:40:41 Just thinking too. For considering the ordinance at 1030 on the twelfth. There's the testimony.
15:40:52 We're sure to get a lot of testimony. So question of timing on that and also how much we would stick to the one testimony per hearing.
15:41:02 Are we getting just written testimony? Are we having doing another war? We left oral. Oh, okay.
15:41:09 So Okay, and we'll need to notice that next Monday then. The twelfth?
15:41:17 Well, so I was wondering if we need a hearing notice, the board needs to approve it. Well, before the 12.
15:41:25 I know Barbara's here. Maybe she can an impover some guidance, but if this changes are substantive enough.
15:41:31 I thought we'd have to do another hearing notice. With the draft ordinance. But Maybe she can send some light on that.
15:41:38 Quite a changing content. Because that's
15:41:41 Yeah, I agree with Carolyn that I would defer to Barbara's judgment on this and I would hate to say something out of line here but to me From my standpoint, it seems like the
hearing still open.
15:41:52 We provide. We provide an ordinance with it with another draft and and people have another crack at it because remember think about planning process.
15:42:00 It's always iterative. How many times does, you know, the Planck Commission change is opinion based on the testimony or the board based on testimony.
15:42:08 So, I mean, you could even hear testimony on February, the twelfth and decide you need another week or 2 to decide because what you've heard so I guess I lean back towards there's
been a lot of process here and so I would tend to say like got the hearing still open.
15:42:20 We're good to go, at least written testimony. And if you could even open it up to, you know.
15:42:25 To comments that day. And I think we'd be good, but that's it. I think that bar should be consulted.
15:42:31 For sure.
15:42:32 Yeah, you might say to close the hearing and then we can reissue a new one. So.
15:42:37 I try to bring over as panelists, but she might have other stuff.
15:42:47 Okay, sounds like we are wrapping up. Oh, okay, she is coming over. And I have somewhere I have to be up for.
15:42:55 Okay. Let's give Barbara a minute.
15:43:00 Well, she's while she's joining us. I did want to point out, Lisa reminded me that we have a 2 pager.
15:43:06 That I think Amy mostly put together. During the planning commission process, which talks about aquaculture and conditional use permits.
15:43:14 You might put the link in there. You probably already seen it. Just a reminder in case there's any lingering questions around there.
15:43:18 Great, thank you. Hi, Barbara, welcome.
15:43:25 We are muted. It's.
15:43:28 There we go. Too many things to do here. Sorry I didn't see this earlier.
15:43:34 I was busy with something else. So your question was about notice and whether we need to re notice the ordinance and The issue I think is that we've discovered some sort of
more technical issues with the The ordinance having to do with some definitions that may need adjustment which are likely not.
15:44:02 They're really needing adjustment because There may be a different definition in in the development code.
15:44:11 That's the same word. And so we need to compare those and I don't really know what the status of that I know that Lisa and company we're working on that as of last week So.
15:44:29 My concern was that we would need to re notice the actual ordinance if we were to include changes to definitions that were not included not included in the original draft.
15:44:46 So to catch you up, Barbara, the board's also talking about making some other changes potentially.
15:44:58 Right. Right.
15:44:53 One would be to just some of the specifics of the use table, like where the C is, and the CDs go, and the other one would be a threshold.
15:45:08 Or both.
15:45:03 Based on either acreage or percentage of expansion. That would that would have an impact on which permit process is used.
15:45:12 Right.
15:45:12 So that's another question for you to think about whether and of course as you remember we have a the ordinances I mean the hearing is actually still open and we tell the ability
to move something.
15:45:20 Right.
15:45:23 And so there's that other wild card factor.
15:45:25 Yeah, so as I understand it, the general rule is that if you're deciding something that was in the scope of alternatives, before the Planning Commission and within the draft
that you have before you, then you wouldn't need to re notice it just for that.
15:45:45 And it sounded to me like that discussion. Was within that. Scope of alternatives that that had been discussed earlier by the Planning Commission.
15:46:00 Hmm.
15:46:02 That's if you're asking me if that's a question I would say yes and no like not the very very specific.
15:46:08 Innovative ideas that are being discussed today, but the subject matter, absolutely. That makes sense.
15:46:15 Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, I like to think of it as sideboards on a wagon.
15:46:21 So was it in the wagon or was it outside the wagon? And that's sort of a more general.
15:46:23 Hmm.
15:46:26 Way to think about it, but. I don't think you need to get down to the fine.
15:46:33 Grain in order to say it was in the scope of alternatives versus it's not within global alternatives.
15:46:41 If that makes anything.
15:46:46 Yeah.
15:46:43 So certainly where the little d's were going was in this it was in a way again. They spent as much time as we had.
15:46:52 Huh. But I guess threshold question. That sounds like, sounds like Joshua felt like that was in the wagon.
15:47:04 In terms of. Like a SIPA threshold, is that what you said?
15:47:08 No, I like an acreage threshold for
15:47:14 Yeah.
15:47:09 Oh, okay, right, right. Well, as soon as I was in the wag and I flashed to that, recent, like precursor to Yellowstone.
15:47:21 I can't remember 1873 or something, Oregon Trail, like a wagon getting stuck in a river, you know, chaos ensuing.
15:47:29 Okay.
15:47:33 Yeah.
15:47:26 Okay. But, so, radio fire. Yeah.
15:47:27 So I was like trying to get away from that vision, but. You're kind of my little red, red wagon then yeah, I guess I would say that again, the It was discussed.
15:47:40 Like, almost in terms of what's the proper permit procedure for the conditional use permit that we're talking about for various uses.
15:47:49 However, the innovation that you were just talking about, I don't think was specifically talked about. Again, it was brought up.
15:47:56 As a possibility I think in terms of not all expansions are created but someone saying why don't we do a threshold I'm not sure if that came up but again that's to me to me
it's within the book ends that's how I would approach it, but I'll differ to others.
15:48:13 But again, I go back to. We are in, we are in a hearing process right now that is still open and I think that if we just Advertise that appropriately.
15:48:24 We are going to post the new information. We could send out an email and we can post it on our website.
15:48:29 We can do whatever we need to do and we still have time before February, the twelfth to do that.
15:48:34 That's how I would look at it. But.
15:48:37 Always a little, time. So in in kind of wrapping up what I think the.
15:48:48 Commissioner is asking for you to bring back. Next time. If I could I dive just a little.
15:48:54 More again into this. Gear question. It's not. This it's not in the use table that we've been stuck on for so long, but is there another place within this draft where we could
try to get at the impacts.
15:49:12 Of of gear and you know so in the
15:49:19 I just don't know. And I, I haven't looked at it with this in mind, but in terms of the the impacts and it's it's not just the visual.
15:49:31 Analysis is that the right term but really calling out that the desire to protect the marine environment from.
15:49:44 Excessive plastic and is it called derelict when it gets loose in the in shellfish?
15:49:51 Yeah, I guess we have somebody there I like to gear. Some way to really call out so that so that when decisions are being made by an administrator or or the hearing examiner
that that is taken into consideration.
15:50:06 If it's a production system that is taken into consideration. If it's a production system that involves a ton of plastic and there's not that that is taken into consideration.
15:50:11 If it's a production system that involves a ton of plastic and there's not a way that it is well secured that that triggers more scrutiny.
15:50:19 Okay, so while you were talking, Commissioner Dean, I looked at the draft and probably in multiple places, but definitely around page 1 50.
15:50:30 Talking about aquaculture regulations, conditions.
15:50:36 And there's some stuff about predator exclusion, but then at the bottom, equipment, structures and materials are not be discarded in the water should not be abandoned in the
upland and centric so forth.
15:50:46 So I guess I would say. The answer is there if you want to dive into the details, just look through that stuff that's there and see if you believe that it's sufficient.
15:50:31 And Okay. And that would be. Criteria that would be considered in in permitting this activity.
15:51:11 In a proposed activity.
15:51:16 Yeah, I would say, even stronger than that, like those, those are regulations that someone would have to abide by.
15:51:22 Okay.
15:51:23 So we would You know, we would be either referencing or putting that into a permit that these are your responsibilities if you're given this, if you're given approval.
15:51:32 If your proposal otherwise meets all the other criteria that are that are more like a judgment call or We have these other things that you have to be, your proposal has to match
this in order to be approved.
15:51:42 And so if you look at it that way then yes, it's criteria.
15:51:47 Yeah, I mean, I think that the tricky part about this is that We have seen that this.
15:51:56 Isn't effective, that there is a lot of derelict gear I've seen that video and photos taken underwater of you know specifically in Jefferson County.
15:52:07 A lot of waste. Associated with commercial GUIDE production.
15:52:14 So I'll take a look at it, but I. Again, trying to get at the impacts.
15:52:20 It would be nice if there was like. Another mechanism by which we could. Knowing that enforcement isn't sufficient because we can't enforce especially below the tide line.
15:52:36 We're gonna send our code enforcement officer. Let's dive in. Yeah. But you know, is there some way upfront to.
15:52:46 Yeah, or incentivize production systems that are more responsible and less plastic, heavy.
15:52:56 But I will take a look here. I'd be good question for Sea Grant or Northwest Straits.
15:53:06 So just be prepared. That's something I'll be thinking about. And
15:53:12 I'm slowly gonna start shutting down. So I have to move down to the port.
15:53:16 Okay, you, we can continue without you too. Yeah. Yeah, I can't continue without both of you.
15:53:36 We're not so. Alright, any other next steps for I just really appreciate the opportunity to have a productive conversation about all these.
15:53:47 Various questions that have been. Fluttering across my mind. So thank you. To Lisa Josh and Barbara for joining us here at the end.
15:53:56 Yes.
15:53:58 You are welcome and thank you Lisa as well for being available for this and prepping for it and happy to continue talking about these are complex issues and Glad you're thinking
about it this deeply.
15:54:18 Thank you.
15:54:12 Great. Okay, we will see you next week. Next Monday. Thank you.
15:54:19 Okay.
15:54:22 I will say, I feel like, and I actually I wrote my master's dissertation, on the marijuana.
15:54:31 Oh, really? Yeah, the first marijuana ordinance that was written after it was legalized and feel like you know, I mean, only in hindsight, can you know that we didn't quite
get it right?
15:54:40 And so I think that's my desire this time around is to like try to get at. To get it right because it's harder.
15:54:47 To fix that after the fact. So that's, I think that's where. Getting stuck in the ill grass. Okay, anything?
15:55:01 Oh, oh, we wanted to talk real quick about the. County coordination agenda. Does anyone have topics and you are involved with it last year?
15:55:10 Not since one for a long time. I really like the round table. I know that there are a number of folks who like to do the check in with each other and have most of the agenda
be open and we go around and report out and you know when I was doing and I was saying like what are the 3 to 5 things you want.
15:55:25 Wanted this table to know and. So, don't talk strategic plan implementation. We talked quite a bit about strategic plan implementation before there's some disagreement about
how much should go there but I think I think they definitely warrants an agenda, you know, to talk a little bit about. Okay.
15:55:46 And were there no other, hanging dangling topics from PDS. Coordination meetings?
15:55:55 No, I have Judi Shepherd to give an update on the contracts module, grants module, and the employee self-service.
15:55:57 Modules and she agreed to do that. So yeah, I'm around now because it's gonna take half time, you guys know this.
15:56:12 Got another table that goes to that. Alright, anything else for the good of the order?
15:56:19 Ended up being a fuller day than it looked like to begin with. Alright, we are adjourned until next Monday.
09:12:52 From Chambers to Everyone:
Recess until 9:20 to address technical issues
09:41:07 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message):
Julia Cochrane has her hand raised
10:38:00 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message):
Bill Graham with PUD is now present, and some other members. I made you co-host if you'd like to bring them over, if needed
10:38:47 From Kate Dean to Chambers(Direct Message):
Thx
11:25:33 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message):
FYI - since we have nothing on the agenda at 1:30 p.m., you can continue BOCC Briefing to fill in that 1/2 hour gap before the SMP at 2pm
14:00:22 From Mark McCauley to Chambers(Direct Message):
bring over Josh and consultants?
14:00:38 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message):
on it ð
14:29:50 From Chambers to Lisa BERK Consulting(Direct Message):
Can you email me the presentation - for the record please? Carolyn@co.jefferson.wa.us
14:30:11 From Josh Peters, DCD to Hosts and panelists:
https://www.codepublishing.com/WA/JeffersonCounty/#!/JeffersonCounty18/JeffersonCounty1840.html#18.40.520
14:32:06 From Chambers to Everyone:
https://www.codepublishing.com/WA/JeffersonCounty/#!/JeffersonCounty18/JeffersonCounty1840.html#18.40.520
15:02:32 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Hosts and panelists:
WAC 173-26-241(3)(b) - does reference no net loss: (b) Aquaculture.
(i) General provisions.
(A) Aquaculture is the culture or farming of fish, shellfish, or other aquatic plants and animals. Aquaculture does not include the harvest of wild geoduck associated with the state
managed wildstock geoduck fishery.
This activity is of statewide interest. Properly managed, it can result in long-term over short-term benefit and can protect the resources and ecology of the shoreline. Aquaculture
is dependent on the use of the water area and, when consistent with control of pollution and prevention of damage to the environment, is a preferred use of the water area. Local government
should consider local ecological conditions and provide limits and conditions to assure appropriate compatible types of aquaculture for the local conditions as necessary to assure no
net loss of ecological functions.
15:12:52 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Hosts and panelists:
Above Table 18.25.440 regarding aquaculture application requirements and state/federal agencies: To minimize redundancy, the county shall accept supporting permit applications and studies
required by state and federal agencies that fulfill one or more of the requirements in subsections (a) through (e).
15:26:02 From Mark McCauley to Hosts and panelists:
25% expansion of a 100 acre farm is 25 new acres. A 25% expansion of a 20 acre farm would be 5 acres. Treat them the same? 25 versus 5?
15:28:14 From Josh Peters, DCD to Hosts and panelists:
Reminder of background info: https://test.co.jefferson.wa.us/WeblinkExternal/0/edoc/4886684/2023%2010%2030%20Memo%20-%20Aquaculture%20and%20Conditional%20Use%20Permits.pdf
15:35:04 From Chambers to Everyone:
WAC 173-26-241(3)(b) - does reference no net loss: (b) Aquaculture.
(i) General provisions.
(A) Aquaculture is the culture or farming of fish, shellfish, or other aquatic plants and animals. Aquaculture does not include the harvest of wild geoduck associated with the state
managed wildstock geoduck fishery.
This activity is of statewide interest. Properly managed, it can result in long-term over short-term benefit and can protect the resources and ecology of the shoreline. Aquaculture
is dependent on the use of the water area and, when consistent with control of pollution and prevention of damage to the environment, is a preferred use of the water area. Local government
should consider local ecological conditions and provide limits and conditions to assure appropriate compatible types of aquaculture for the local conditions as necessary to assure no
net loss of ecological functions.
15:35:16 From Chambers to Everyone:
Above Table 18.25.440 regarding aquaculture application requirements and state/federal agencies: To minimize redundancy, the county shall accept supporting permit applications and studies
required by state and federal agencies that fulfill one or more of the requirements in subsections (a) through (e).
15:35:32 From Chambers to Everyone:
Reminder of background info: https://test.co.jefferson.wa.us/WeblinkExternal/0/edoc/4886684/2023%2010%2030%20Memo%20-%20Aquaculture%20and%20Conditional%20Use%20Permits.pdf