HomeMy WebLinkAboutchat09:10:49 From Mark McCauley to Chambers(Direct Message) : Barbara is reporting an echo on Zoom.
09:11:03 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message) : I turned down owl mic, but I think that won't handle issue
09:13:37 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message) : I'll shoot Greg a message
09:14:03 From Chambers to Greg Brotherton(Direct Message) : Barbara Ehrlichman is stating there is a lot of echo being heard. Any ideas what it could be?
09:27:33 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message) : I wonder if her speakers are picking up the humming pipes?
09:36:37 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message) : I think Jon may be here to provide a comment?
09:37:56 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message) : Ahh. parks and rec proclamation - sorry!
09:52:45 From Mark McCauley to Chambers(Direct Message) : What's the name of the guy whose van was towed?
09:53:18 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message) : Flosbee I think he said. I am looking at transcript to see if I can get his spelling
09:53:37 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message) : Harold
09:54:48 From Mark McCauley to Chambers(Direct Message) : <Thanks.
16:12:29 From Chambers to Lisa BERK Consulting(Direct Message) : Hi Lisa - can you please email me the latest presentation at Carolyn@co.jefferson.wa.us - Thank you!
16:17:04 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Chambers(Direct Message) : Yes, will do.
16:19:43 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Hosts and panelists : I have added #5 to the table "Treat all geoduck aquaculture with standard CUP."
16:31:11 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Hosts and panelists : The County does recognize the benefits of streamlining requirements across different agencies (e.g. Joint Aquatic Resources
Permit Application). Similarly, above the submittal matrix for aquaculture (Table 18.25.440) the draft code would indicate:
To minimize redundancy, the county shall accept supporting permit applications and studies required by state and federal agencies that fulfill one or more of the requirements in subsections
(a) through (e).
16:33:17 From Chambers : From Lisa at BERK: The County does recognize the benefits of streamlining requirements across different agencies (e.g. Joint Aquatic Resources Permit Application).
Similarly, above the submittal matrix for aquaculture (Table 18.25.440) the draft code would indicate:
To minimize redundancy, the county shall accept supporting permit applications and studies required by state and federal agencies that fulfill one or more of the requirements in subsections
(a) through (e).
16:33:46 From Chambers to Hosts and panelists : It's 4:31
16:43:03 From Chambers to Hosts and panelists : I asked Adiel to see if there is still civil deputies in the office to keep the front doors open
09:01:43 Longest minute. So.
09:01:57 Waitin for the clock tower. Let's try.
09:02:10 Yeah, Recording it.
09:02:15 Everybody's AVF. Great, and you can pass up the
09:02:29 You can. Good morning, everyone. I'll call this meeting of the Jefferson County Board of Commissioners to order.
09:02:38 I want to acknowledge and thank our law enforcement team who dealt with a very, very difficult issue this weekend.
09:02:46 Death of a newborn. I can't imagine what they have to face and it's affecting community.
09:02:51 At large, but really deep respect for those who, have to respond to situations like that and, you know, it gives pause to a number of us.
09:03:04 Thinking, you know, is, Is the system working when something like that can happen? So let's feel, feel deep, sadness.
09:03:15 Anything. Else this morning before we get started. No. Alright.
09:03:22 We will start this morning with public comment as we always do in an effort to make sure that everyone has equal opportunity to speak.
09:03:30 We do keep public comments to 3Â min apiece. There is a timer when the green light is on.
09:03:35 You have plenty of time when the yellow light comes on. That means you have 30Â s left and when the red light comes on we ask you to stop speaking.
09:03:43 Again this is for fairness so that everyone has the same amount of time to speak. We ask that you please abide by the time limit and we will ask people to stop speaking at the
3Â min mark.
09:03:57 One more thing, please. We respond all the comments after we get the comments. If you want To establish dialogue, it's great to stick around and listen to our response too,
but we do listen to everyone talk before we respond.
09:04:08 Very good. Thank you. And it is helpful if you state your name, and your area of residence, but it is not required.
09:04:19 So I'll start with folks in the room who would like to provide public comment this morning?
09:04:25 Hmm. Welcome. And it's helpful if you speak right into the microphone. So we and everyone online can hear you.
09:04:36 Yeah, my name is, and I was born here. 7, 7 years ago. And I come back, I got married at 21.
09:04:49 And I came back 50 years ago and I got lost. And I was living in. In. And the cold front, by Angel, they came over and put me in a hotel because it was cold out.
09:05:08 And have a, a van. And his daughter went out. I had it. And back to Safeway or the Both state and time.
09:05:23 And time you get to Start on now and up in the hospital because it was so cold You know, like, 16 degrees.
09:05:33 And the placement, all came over and went away. And the friends of mine told him just got a stitching on it.
09:05:44 Do not throw it away. This is during the cold. Right. And 1 one question said, we can't throw it because of the cold front.
09:05:53 Well, the next couple days after that, they told it. Joe, I'm living in the street.
09:06:02 And I did. Some people say that, don't please just honest. I just want my van back.
09:06:14 Thank you and we will respond to everyone's comment when we're done. Is it Homesby?
09:06:22 Is that your last name? Thank you. Not give him a van back.
09:06:32 And I pray the guy, it's in God's hands, so. Hey, tell me, okay, but I'm I still.
09:06:39 Lose faith or become human. So thank you. Yeah. And we will respond.
09:06:50 I just can't believe a place when being dishonest. I just, but I guess they are.
09:06:55 Thank you.
09:07:04 Hi, I'm Maggie. I was at the Warming Center. I have direct knowledge.
09:07:11 That the police lied to Harold. Because I was on the phone with the governor Jay Hinsley telling him that they were going to tow his vehicle while it was snowing and then they
came in and they said, oh, we're not going to toe your vehicle.
09:07:30 And he went to check on it and they towed it anyway and he came back and he told me in the warming center where he was staying during the emergency declaration.
09:07:40 That they towed it anyway, even though they personally came to the warming center and said they were not going to tow it.
09:07:47 And also I am. Really? Ashamed that you guys, the police department decided during the emergency declaration to go around and chose vehicles and give you know without competitive
spending caps they could offer more money to the toe truck drivers so you know they were just having a free for all going around and showing people's homeless people's vehicles.
09:08:16 And meanwhile, there was a baby in danger and it just seems like they got their priorities exactly wrong.
09:08:26 When they should have been looking for baby dough, they were saying whoopee, let's tow all these vehicles.
09:08:35 At 3 times the price because whoopee that's crony is a whoopee that's nepotism would be that's capitalism and who cares about a baby in peril.
09:08:48 Thank you.
09:08:52 Plus, would like to provide public comment this morning. Anyone else in the room? Providing comments.
09:09:01 Mr. Cohen?
09:09:07 Good morning commissioners. Mr. McCauley, Ms. Galloway. I think the warming center did save lives.
09:09:15 I'm really proud of what we did. There as a community. There's been a lot of talk lately about swimming pools and I think that the Jefferson County does need a public swimming
pool. And I think that the Jefferson County does need a public swimming pool.
09:09:25 I don't pretend to know how to make that happen. How to keep one, but I want to thank the commissioners for the way you've taken up this issue.
09:09:33 To me, swimming is an essential life skill. I grew up going to public pools. The kids I grew up with went swimming a lot in Boy Scouts we were required to learn to swim a hundred
yards just to get our first-class badge.
09:09:48 We went to the pool for fun and for sport. Imagine coming back to school in the fall.
09:09:55 And greeting a classmate who had won an Olympic medal. It was bronze, but still it wasn't metal.
09:10:03 It was a big deal. As a teacher here. I took my whole class to the pool every year.
09:10:11 So they could learn to swim. Several times a year. Thousands of kids in Jefferson County learned to swim in the public pool.
09:10:21 It was built with public money over 60 years ago. At least twice. The port towns and school district that reaches down to Discovery Bay, voted in funding measures to renovate
it.
09:10:33 I believe it's time to build something better, something new and something that can last. That will serve families, children, seniors, and visitors for decades to come.
09:10:44 Oh, I haven't gone swimming in a long time. I don't expect to anytime soon, but I don't mind paying for it.
09:10:51 I think it's that important. The Healthier Together Steering Committee was convened by the city.
09:10:57 But it did include officials of the county, the port, a school district, the hospital, all of them representing interests of people who live outside the city.
09:11:07 I have every confidence in the integrity of their work and their good hearts. In taking it up. I don't think I've ever seen a government decision that everyone thought was perfectly
managed.
09:11:19 Or that everyone agreed with. It's not easy to create something for the greater good, especially in this political climate, but having a public swimming pool in this county
is a necessity.
09:11:33 Hmm.
09:11:30 I hope that we can come together as a community. For the good of the community. If Richville and Columbia County.
09:11:38 Can do it, so can we. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kelly. Anyone else in the room wish to provide public comments?
09:11:47 Ms. Peterson and then the man in the back. Okay. Good morning. I'm Deborah Peterson.
09:11:57 I live in Port Townsend and I have another issue related to the aquatic. It has to do with something on your consent agenda today, which is approval.
09:12:07 Of the agreement with the Department of Commerce. And I hope you can pull it and discuss this.
09:12:15 The appendix to the agreement. And describing the scope of work. Says that it will be about building a multi purpose recreation facility, including among other things a pool,
blocker room, and other amenities.
09:12:32 This does not specifically mention public showers, which this body and the city specifically asked for. And I don't, you know, this language is not exclusive, but it is not
inclusive either.
09:12:48 And if we're going to pay somebody to do a study of this, it should include everything that is.
09:12:58 Hoped for. Otherwise might have to go back to the drawing board if the PFD decides that's, important.
09:13:08 Mr. McCauley would be responsible for providing the. Consultant with the all the information.
09:13:16 That will presumably include the final report of the steering committee. That report was distinctly tepid about public bathrooms.
09:13:27 It mentioned that there had been public support for them. Mentioned that they could be included. They were thinking of external entry and they considered that it might cost
a hundred $1,000.
09:13:39 I'd like to know, you know, what but an actual. Analysis of that might be. So I'm just I'm just hoping that this can be included or that Mr. McCauley can be instructed to make
sure that that is part of the information that they're given.
09:13:58 It's in the minutes. It's in the recordings of City Council. It's in the recordings of meetings of this body.
09:14:04 So, thank you for that. Thank you, Miss Peterson.
09:14:11 Is their hand in the back there, sir? Okay. Welcome. Hi, my name is Zachary and I have family in Klosting, been living there for a little bit.
09:14:26 I am now staying at the homeless shelter here. And. In Cool scene. There's a lot of in like rural areas out there.
09:14:37 There's a lot of property being bought out and people using them as Airbnb's in places where they do not want to stay in for retirement and stuff.
09:14:44 And it's just sitting there most of the time and it's just. Like not being used as what people in closely would like it to be used ads and people wanting to put things there
and expand.
09:14:58 Is us as a community coming together. Is not what we want and my father, he's the Manager at the community center there and.
09:15:12 About the whole thing and everything if that goes through and all that we have came together as a community that is something that we do not want to have to put any type of
money into.
09:15:22 We do not want to have to pay any poor towns and full text or anything. And that We shouldn't have to be involved in something that as a community we don't.
09:15:33 To have to put money into with the rise of property taxes and everything else going up in our community there.
09:15:44 Along with the surrounding communities too. Thank you. Thank you, my name is Ariel Schulzer Miho.
09:16:02 I am also unhoused in Port Townsend right now. I'm not staying at the homeless shelter.
09:16:10 But I have stayed there before. One of the policies at the homeless shelter is that you cannot use the physical location there as an address for a variety of reasons this came
up for a couple of times one was there there was like group that was giving away tablets and devices for people to use to be able to keep in touch with family or apply for jobs or other
types of things that people use mobile devices
09:16:44 for, but you need to be able to have an address in their process of giving away the devices. And, I think specifically a residential address.
09:16:56 And so as they were talking with people and some of the nonprofit groups around town were trying to like, all right, you know, what are some ways we can, you know, try and help
people figure out how to still connect people with this so they can you know, do the things they need to do.
09:17:14 The other thing that to me came up. Was voter registration. I came down and talked to the county auditor and I tried to be very thorough.
09:17:25 I explained my situation and the policy about using the address and they seem to understand and I tried to come back and double check and make sure that my voter registration
would come general delivery.
09:17:38 The library in town is able to send general delivery. The library in town is able to send they sent me a library.
09:17:44 The library in town is able to send, they sent me a library card, general delivery. The library in town is able to send, they sent me a library card, general delivery, some
of the other government organizations have sent mail to me, general delivery, Apple Health has as well.
09:17:52 However, there was some sort of mix-up and I did not receive my ballots, but I did receive my voter registration card.
09:17:59 So I was able to change my voter registration to this county. From Kitsap, which is where I was living before.
09:18:06 There are not, there's not a homeless shelter where I was living in Bainbridge Island. And I moved here last February.
09:18:14 It was icy. There was not, facilities available. This was the closest. And so, I was really grateful.
09:18:25 There's been, I think you all came down and we're able to see the emergency shelter and that was I mean it was just really great and so I am really grateful to you know the
the services that have been available to me.
09:18:36 In Jefferson County. And I just wanted to let you know the staff at the auditors office has been incredibly helpful.
09:18:45 It was just the one little thing I was able to get my voter registration card. I just didn't end up receiving my ballot.
09:18:53 And so thank you. Thank you. I mean, anyone else in the room? Good night.
09:19:01 Because I didn't see by trying to reclaim the time that I. I'm sorry.
09:19:08 We just do 1 one comment per person again trying to be fair and give everyone equal time. All right.
09:19:17 We have a couple of folks on zoom.
09:19:19 There's another hand in the room too. Oh, all right. Let's go to zoom and then we'll come back.
09:19:26 Back to the room. Let's do Janet Welsh then Marilyn, let's do Janet Welsh then Marilyn Show Walter then Mr. Teersch.
09:19:33 Hmm. Yes, good morning.
09:19:33 I can hear me. Great, perfect. My name is Janet Welch. I'm in Nordland and I'm sorry about my new dog here being pest.
09:19:42 I'd like to speak briefly about the shoreline management plan that you're gonna be. Looking at a revision on and speaking specifically on section 4 4 0 subset 3, which deals
with some of the changes in the aquaculture regulations and specifically what I would advocate is to go back to what the draft had been up until a few months ago, a couple months ago,
when it was changed to.
09:20:16 Kind of to me make this situation a lot more complex and that discretionary conditional use permits are required in some situations and regular conditional use permits are required
in others.
09:20:29 And, and I think it would be a lot better to just go back to standard. Conditional use permits.
09:20:35 For all of the new expanded and converted, categories of them. I understand the reason for discretionary conditional use and and I don't think that aquaculture is a place where
You know, it's kind of like, well, this really doesn't really want conditional use, which is kind of how the discretionary is used.
09:21:01 So I would recommend in your in your review of that draft that you go back to an earlier form where it was conditional use on all of those activities.
09:21:11 And again, thank you so much for your service. You guys are doing a great job.
09:21:16 Thank you, Ms. Welch. Mr. Walter.
09:21:23 Yes.
09:21:22 Can you hear me? Yes, I agree with the previous speaker. But I want to cover 3 points that came up at your last week's workshop.
09:21:35 The first is the status of Mason County's regulation of GUI ducks. Despite what you have heard or read.
09:21:44 Only conversions in Mason County can avoid the CUP. And I am going to read to you because it's only 2 sentences long.
09:21:54 Mason County Code, 17. Point 5 0 point 2 1 0. B 3 C. It says conditional use permits are required for new commercial goiduct aquaculture.
09:22:13 Period. Conversions from existing Non goi duck aquaculture to buoy dug aquaculture within existing farm boundaries.
09:22:26 Do not require a conditional use permit. There is nothing about expansion because that word was an invention of the planning commission that somehow tries to distinguish it
from new, but it is new.
09:22:40 And Mason County has no provision for it. I put this in a letter so you don't have to remember the citation.
09:22:48 Second point on PVC versus HTPE, the black mesh tubes. They both have their problems and the place to hash it out.
09:22:58 Is in a CUP. Hearing but it's certainly not the case that everybody is going the way of black mesh.
09:23:08 We have a PVC in Squamish Harbor and the only application for gooey duck in Jefferson County in the last 10 years.
09:23:16 Is pending and it's for 5 more acres of PVC, GUIDA, Cultivation.
09:23:22 Last point, some, if I don't know what the commission is thinking about this afternoon, but if it's anything about percentage expansion, I can just say it's complicated because
it's 25% of what you need a marker date there's some language elsewhere in the code that could be used, you could there could be documentation.
09:23:46 From federal permits, etc. But it's complicated. The best thing as you know is full CUP across the board for GUI Dex.
09:23:57 I look forward to listening in this afternoon. Thank you.
09:24:02 Thank you, Mr. Walter. Good morning, Mr. Teersch.
09:24:08 Good morning commissioners. A couple of items on your consent agenda that I'd like to talk about.
09:24:15 First is number one, which is a waving of fees, being, now left up to the people that are.
09:24:22 I'm charging the fees as opposed to you commissioners having to deal with a lot of small items.
09:24:28 That's a good idea. I like it, but there's there's one big butt there.
09:24:33 If it's just left up to the people and nobody knows how many waivers are being granted, what the amount is in total.
09:24:42 That is something that an auditor would likely catch and would report as a lack of controls. I'm sure you've seen that all the time in audit reports.
09:24:50 So I would suggest that allow the people to award these waivers, but require them to report quarterly at least to the county administrator and or to you.
09:25:02 So that you have a feeling for how many of these fees are being waved, who's doing it, and make sure that there's some cross checks here.
09:25:09 Before you just let people spend. $500, wherever they feel like it may be for their friends and buddies.
09:25:16 Item number 4 on the consent agenda this is the the contract with the department of commerce for the for the pool documents evaluation.
09:25:27 I've been working on a reviewing document because I found a lot of problems with the healthier together final report.
09:25:35 There are a lot of errors, a lot of completely wrong statements, especially from the BK portion of the study.
09:25:43 And so. It would be very helpful if You the county could set up a website, a web page where all of the documents that are being submitted to the Department of Commerce could
be posted.
09:25:56 This is now a county issue. I'm not going to trust the city to put that stuff up there on the web their website because they frankly haven't been posting everything.
09:26:04 But everything that's sent to Department of Commerce, if you could put that up there for further review and analysis.
09:26:10 That would be very good and very, well, it'd be in the sense of open public records.
09:26:17 Yes, we have access to those after the evaluation is complete, but that's a little bit too late.
09:26:22 Because You know, these things need to be carefully analyzed. Due to the number of errors that have been found already in the documents that have been provided.
09:26:31 So that's my request. Is that you set up a web site, to contain all those documents.
09:26:37 There may be more requests from Department of Commerce. So as those requests come in and new documents are issued, then those those could be posted there as well.
09:26:46 Also glad to see that the price went down from 18,000 to 11,000. That's nice.
09:26:54 Hmm.
09:26:54 Occasionally something actually works. Anyway, that's, that's my request. Thank you.
09:26:58 Thank you, Mr. Teersch. And go to Miss Cochran.
09:27:07 Hi. I don't know whether you see me or not. Yes, okay.
09:27:15 My manager told me that you're told the world. That during the, time that we were open as a 24Â h shelter, we had 356 visits.
09:27:27 45 people a day on average a hundred 10 overnight overnights or would I guess but that's not individuals.
09:27:37 57 people showed up on one day. That was our busiest day. There was 8 nights, 8 24Â h days.
09:27:44 And we're all still alive. I also wanna support Harold. I bought, I arranged for, him to have a starter motor so he could get his residential.
09:27:59 And out of Kai Thai. Parking lot where it was and I was there with the real team and we thought it was all going to be okay and then it got towed.
09:28:09 So I think that, you know, this isn't, I don't think this is your actual.
09:28:17 Per view. I think this is a city thing, but I think the county could join it.
09:28:21 In having just like a toy ban during emergencies during winter weather storms and whatever other, you know, smoke emergencies, whatever the weather emergencies are, there should
be a towing ban unless the car is in the way of something.
09:28:36 This car was not in the way of anything. And so I support what he was saying and what Maggie was saying.
09:28:43 And what Ariel saying about addresses is a huge issue. And it just continues and continues and continues and whether it's your voting or whether it's being able to get certain
benefits like a free tablet.
09:28:55 That comes with some Wi-Fi. I mean, how useful is that to the homeless? You know, why has well brown people don't have an address?
09:29:03 You American Legion people don't have a address. Obviously the people who aren't anywhere don't have an address.
09:29:10 That's not okay. You know, we should be allowing some way of address. For people to be able to get things.
09:29:17 And that are necessary for survival. So that's my 20 cents.
09:29:22 Have a good day.
09:29:23 Thank you, Ms. Cochran. And again, thank you for so much hard work that you and your team put in.
09:29:29 To keep the welcoming center open at extended amount of time.
09:29:33 You're welcome.
09:29:37 Let's see. Great, did you have your hand up? No, okay. Anyone else in the room, Mr. King?
09:29:51 Gordon King, Bell Street, for Townsend. In response to the comments on the SNP I would like to clarify that in the original SMP draft.
09:30:03 That was prepared by the Department of Planning. The DCD in Jefferson County.
09:30:09 There were way less. So, for CUPs, then is in the present draft.
09:30:17 Partway through 2021 that was changed. Jul to comments that were submitted after public comment had been closed.
09:30:29 To the Planning Commission. To have CUP, full CUPs for everything.
09:30:36 So now we're in a situation where it is More CUPs than the original draft.
09:30:43 Which was, as I said, prepared by the Jefferson County Planning Department, not by the shellfish industry.
09:30:50 People seem to have this idea that PVC. Is toxic. I think most of us get a water through PVC pipes.
09:30:58 I'm a little confused. About it being so toxic. The other thing I do appreciate, Marilyn Shawwater.
09:31:06 Emphasizing the thing about Mason County. In fact, I submitted that. A copy of that. Regulation from Mason County to the County Commissioners, which hopefully they read.
09:31:20 I don't know. Many things submitted but yeah that she's did right. Expansion is not not is not mentioned in the Mason County one but there is no CUP for conversions only for
new GUDAC agriculture.
09:31:36 We would be fine. The showfish industry would be fine with that same standard. And Jefferson County and I really appreciate Michelle Water bringing it up.
09:31:46 Thank you very much.
09:31:47 Thank you, Mr. King.
09:31:50 Anyone else wish to provide public comments? We are almost at time. Thank you all. It's great to have robust public comment.
09:32:00 It's been a while since we've had this much engagement. So responses from my seat mates.
09:32:06 I know. I can start. Yeah.
09:32:12 To you and about the van that is in the city but I would be curious. About the idea of some kind of towing band during emergency declarations and maybe a review of what What
is, afforded by emergency declarations?
09:32:31 You know, I've never whole cloth. Reviewed the impact of emergency declarations, but that seems like a good.
09:32:38 Thing to do.
09:32:44 Yeah. To Bruce, we all, we all want a pool. It's just that there's been so much information flying.
09:32:53 It's really hard to. Figure out what the current information is. So as we go through this.
09:32:59 Process with an independent financial review. It'll be helpful. To get a set of information. From an independent consultant.
09:33:07 That we can reflect on because it's seems like what I've seen happening is information coming on it kind of in a trickle or from external parties and it it's created some confusion
about what the information that we're basing our decisions or our recommendations on actually is.
09:33:31 And Deborah, yes, we have. Emphatically supported the idea of public showers as part of this infrastructure.
09:33:39 Development in our community and It should be clear. And so I don't know if that's telling Mark or asking Mark to make sure that in the independent financial review that showers
piece.
09:33:53 Cause the city in the county, we've all, we've all said that should be a priority.
09:33:59 I called up the memorandum of agreement with the city and public showers for part of the agreement for the independent financial feasibility review so I can guarantee you it
will be considered.
09:34:12 Okay, great. And the address issue just seems like the most basic. Right that I've heard about today.
09:34:19 I mean, I don't know what the. What other jurisdictions have done in terms of getting addresses for people who don't have homes?
09:34:29 But it seems like there has to be a way. I mean, I remember when we were commercial fishing family.
09:34:35 And we were traveling up and down the West Coast. We often had our mail delivered to Zeke graders fish stocks Vasolido, California and that was where my parents ballots are
no they weren't mail ballots but their voter registration cards and stuff.
09:34:49 Came so I don't know what the requirements are or what the. Legal issues are with. Voting addresses and all that, but I think that that's something that.
09:35:03 Working with the auditor, we should be able to find out. But it sounds like Ariel that you've already worked on that.
09:35:10 So. Curious to look into that more, but the address issue seems pretty basic to me. I remember and I worked at the library.
09:35:17 For library cards, people. Sometimes their address like both school students was the boat school. So I, yeah, I don't know, but it seems like that should be a basic right.
09:35:30 We'll be talking more about the SMP this afternoon. We got a ton of comments over the weekend and I had a chance to read through all of them.
09:35:37 But there's more more discussion and deliberation there. So I appreciate people adding to that. But growing body of knowledge.
09:35:47 To Tom Tearsch. I agree with a quarterly report regarding fee waivers. I mean, it seems like that wouldn't be a hard thing to do as few waivers are granted, Mark.
09:35:58 So, Here graph 3 C of the resolution that the board passed a week ago. Requires it the department director provide me a copy of any waiver granted.
09:36:08 Okay. And that I'm to monitor the programs. Okay. And so if you have a concern about me and internal controls, then you need to find another county minister.
09:36:16 Yeah, right. No, that's good. Okay.
09:36:20 Just tracking them, you keeping us kind of in the, yeah, we'll have a file and we can certainly produce it or, you know, review it periodically, but.
09:36:31 In my 6 years here we've had 2 waivers that I can recall so this is not an issue I'm all that concerned about.
09:36:37 Yeah.
09:36:40 To Julia, I mean, You know, I had the opportunity to see a little bit firsthand what was going on at the winter warming shelter.
09:36:47 And I cannot express the amount of gratitude I feel. For the the Interfaith Action Coalition and Julia herself.
09:36:56 And her staff to Ben and Ruby and all the other folks who work at the shelter and all the folks who relied on the shelter to Stay warm and alive over the cold snap.
09:37:07 It was, I mean, our pipes froze 3 times. So I spend the whole weekend doing plumbing, so it was, you know, it was unprecedented.
09:37:15 The duration of the. Depth of the cold. And Gordon, yeah, we're gonna talk more about this today.
09:37:27 Never ending conversation. Is that all heavy? Yeah. All right.
09:37:38 I did close public comment, but Mr. Cook, are you hoping to give a public comment?
09:37:43 Oh, Parks. That's right. I was gonna open it up again for you. All right, I think.
09:37:54 Commissioner Eisenhower did a good job in responding. Let's see what I can.
09:37:58 And sorry about your van Harold almost be. I think the ninth circuit court decision about at least as it's being enforced in Seattle talks about protecting vehicles that are
being lived in.
09:38:15 I might wanna talk to Jefferson Associated Council. I mean. As, as Heidi said, it's in the city, I don't know who towed it, whether it was, transit not knowing what the truck
was there and having it.
09:38:28 I don't know any of the situations so it's hard to be directly responsive. But That's now, Okay, what people said.
09:38:39 Right. They said they wanted control. Okay, I don't want to get into a back and forth now, but I have a card you can take it I'd be happy to follow up afterwards and see what
I can do to get you.
09:38:52 In touch with the right people that might be able to get your van back. I want to see if I can help you do that.
09:38:57 I don't know. Let's follow. And, for, regarding the addresses, you know, I.
09:39:10 Yeah, that is a frustrating barrier that, it's very real. I know. I don't know.
09:39:17 I'll talk to some agencies, maybe PO boxes, vouchers for peel boxes or something that can be used.
09:39:23 I don't know what what the solution is, but being able to access ballots and you know, getting ID.
09:39:29 D becomes difficult if you don't have a, of a resident. So yeah, boxes don't like I have a resident. So yeah. Boxes don't like I have a yeah. Box. They don't work. Nope.
09:39:43 They're need to be able to, you know. Even their notifications is when it's time to pay your yearly or quarterly invoice.
09:39:51 Yeah. That's a bit of a, they don't work for everything. Yeah, I don't know, but it does seem like something we should take a look at.
09:40:00 Appreciate Mark's responses to the, the waiver, which I'm really excited about, as well.
09:40:09 And to Mr. Cheers is other points about the. Putting all the reports on the on the website.
09:40:15 I mean, do you see an objection to that? It seems like a common sense asked to me. My initial reaction is that that makes a good deal of sense so that the public knows what
information is being considered by the consultant.
09:40:31 What I'm concerned about is being bombarded with all sorts of emails and other things. That I would have to track and somehow report on.
09:40:41 But, but certainly documents submitted by the city and by the county and by the aquatic coalition.
09:40:51 Certainly we could create a link on our website. For those documents, I think that would be great. Much transparency we can provide as good.
09:41:01 Appreciate. Cohen's. Thoughtful commentary on the pool.
09:41:06 I mean, yeah, we're gonna get there. You know, I grew up, a, was just down the street ice skating and, you know, bringing home an Olympic medal.
09:41:18 But luckily in Britain, they're gonna have a big ice skating rink, right? So maybe we can have a skate park.
09:41:26 And yeah, public showers. I think that was addressed. Definitely wanna make maintain that focus.
09:41:34 To Zachary, we are looking at short term rentals and, you know, licensing them or looking for some mechanism to be able to control them.
09:41:43 It's difficult free use of a property is something that's pretty precious to people, especially down in I say I had Richard for me, good guy.
09:41:53 And you know, to the pool, any decision that comes, you know, we're in one step of a process, but anything will ultimately be decided by the voters on a PFD.
09:42:03 So. Everyone will have their chance to say whether it's a good idea or bad, whatever, where we fall.
09:42:11 Dan it and Marilyn and Gordon appreciate the continued input. We're getting lots of, you know, Great input on this and we will.
09:42:20 This afternoon. Maybe not come to a conclusion, but continue to work on it. So I'll hold my conversation about for there.
09:42:29 I love your eternal optimism. And again, just echo the thanks to Julian and the whole Interface Coalition for Julia and the whole Interface Coalition for keeping the winter
warming shelter going, and the whole Interface Coalition for, keeping the winter warming shelter going.
09:42:42 I think as Bruce said, it did save lives over this break. Protecting people in the emergencies that is definitely I see as a prime responsibility of the county.
09:42:48 And, no, we are here for you. Yeah, it'd be great to get some boilerplate language added to emergency declaration that includes not displacing vulnerable populations.
09:43:03 The hard part is we. We're often. You know, emergencies happen.
09:43:09 They surprise us and we don't always have the foresight. So it's like, how can we be prepared now?
09:43:17 Schedule a workshop about emergency decorations. Alright. I largely concur with what my fellow commissioners have said.
09:43:27 I do wanna say it's just really, really great to have, folks from the unhoused population here.
09:43:35 That's we do a lot of work. Around housing and don't always hear from the unhoused and you know hearing your lived experience is really helpful and you know, calls out the really
important points, things we need to be paying attention to, things like getting addresses, you know, it's really basic for being able to.
09:43:56 You know, for those that want to change their status to be able to, you know, likely get a job, be able to vote, do basic things and addresses really helpful.
09:44:07 So thank you for for being here and for helping us. You know, kind of remain aware of some of the challenges you're facing.
09:44:16 I would agree. Mr. Filmsby, this is very much a Port Townsend police issue.
09:44:23 Our law enforcement is through the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department, which has does not have jurisdiction within the city limits.
09:44:29 So sounds like. You need some help and kind of navigating the. Finding the right person to talk to to see if we can resolve this.
09:44:40 And is there just trying to think is there some someone? You know, you're gonna be tied up all day, Greg, someone we could point to the city navigator or, however, was during
a Jefferson County emergency declaration.
09:44:58 I think it was actually a city of Port Townsend declaration also that County did not do a declaration the city did for the winter welcoming center.
09:45:05 It is city and I'm not using that as a way to shirk responsibility just to say we have no authority.
09:45:10 We don't get to call the police and say, give the guys van back. But.
09:45:15 Do we know about city navigator or I'm just trying to think of where. But the real team might be I mean they were already involved so it's like Have you been connected with
the real team already?
09:45:33 Hey, do you know? I haven't talked to him yet. And, let me, let's send it to what people call slams.
09:45:42 Maybe they, even though they took it, because they got used to That's tricky. We are we are tied up here all day.
09:46:05 So trying to identify who the person is to be helpful. Let's, give it a minute. I wonder if, Thank you. That'd be great.
09:46:15 And Julia is still in the attendees of. Julia has any ideas, maybe email or text one of us.
09:46:25 Let's see, Zachary as, Commissioner Brotherton mentioned, we are starting to, Look at regulating short term rentals because of the impacts on the housing market.
09:46:37 I was surprised last week to learn we have 543 unique short-term rentals in this property that are advertised on various websites.
09:46:46 It's a lot more than we anticipated. That's just in unincorporated Jefferson County of those 76 are permitted so there are 400 and some unpermitted short term rentals and want
to get an idea of what that impact is and.
09:47:03 It's interesting. I live in uptown. Lucky to own a home in Uptown, Port Townsend, but a long time ago and more and more.
09:47:12 The houses around me are unoccupied and it's. You know, and is helping out at the.
09:47:18 Winter welcoming center I was able to walk down there which is nice enough to drive and was so aware that I was walking past you know all these vacant homes.
09:47:28 With the thermostat on, you know, to keep their pipes on frozen and while we have, you know.
09:47:32 Dozens of people on housed and Yeah, very aware of that. Deborah, I, I, do think there is a real commitment to keep the public showers in the mix at the Aquatic Center, in the
product center proposal.
09:47:51 There's a lot of components of operations that were not included in that description. And so I'm not too worried that it's not in there because there's.
09:47:59 Many many things that were not included there that are still in in the mix. But we will be tracking it and make sure that that that stays a part of it.
09:48:11 You know, there's still a question as to kind of who's going to manage that and the Y.M.C.A. currently manages public showers but they have a requirement for identification
which we know for some folks is a barrier and so trying to figure out what the best best way to manage public showers will be there.
09:48:29 And that's a Y.M.C.A. requirement for their own risk management. Still some uncertainty.
09:48:36 More to come. The shoreline master program and GUI duck, of course.
09:48:43 And, Lots more to come on the Aquatic Center too. We still have not been able to have a meeting.
09:48:49 Having a hard time scheduling a meeting of the steering committee to start talking about next steps, you know, and we know that we need to be pulling in some more voices to
that group.
09:49:02 We do have a meeting scheduled on the thirtieth. Oh good, it's on our calendars, finally.
09:49:05 Great. Alright. So lots more to come there too. Mark or other?
09:49:14 I say one more thing? Yeah, that looks like the real team. Confirming my intuition is that it It's a referral agency, so I think Julia doubt the, when a warming center can contact
them as can holy cap, but they don't they don't have a direct line so they are a referral organization but since they've been involved already I would I would say keep working with
Julia
09:49:35 and as you leave take a card I'm happy to help you interface and do I can to try to get your van back.
09:49:41 Great. Yeah. Thank you. Mark, anything you want to add?
09:49:50 I think I have made all the comments I need to. Thank you. Alright. Now let's see.
09:49:58 Not entirely here. Great, you can bring that over because we next on our agenda is our proclamation.
09:50:06 For Parks and Rec volunteer appreciation. Okay. Oh, sorry. Yeah.
09:50:12 Okay, great. So.
09:50:18 Matt over here.
09:50:22 Good morning, Matt.
09:50:24 Good morning.
09:50:26 You wanna tee this up for us? And we have a few of your. Board members here just seen a way, Burn Bessie, Karen and I, and John Cook.
09:50:36 Yeah, I can be there in person, but I appreciate you introducing them and thank them for being there.
09:50:45 I don't have much to say about the proclamation. I'll just really quickly highlight that we had 4,800 and 9Â h donated last year.
09:50:56 It's equivalent of 2.3 one full-time employees. And those are the people who are official volunteers, including our caretakers and can't post and Dr.
09:51:06 Park people as well as people. In groups like Quimper Trails Foundation and others who are taking care of our parks, Irondale Beach Park and Indian Island Park are still 100%
volunteer maintained.
09:51:20 So it's a holdover from the recession that's still going strong. The donations are valued at a hundred $52,926 so it's a really pretty serious thing and we would not survive
without our volunteers.
09:51:35 The other major group of volunteers is our coaches who serve in our WRECK programs and that's how we're able to provide such a large impact in our rep programs with just one
person.
09:51:44 So that's all I have to say and thank you so much for considering this proclamation.
09:51:51 Thank you. Matt. So we will read the proclamation and Then ask our, Parks and Rec, board members to come up and speak if they so wish.
09:52:02 So, should we go, Greg, how do you meet? Sounds good. Proclamation, a proclamation officially recognizing the hard-working volunteers of Jefferson County Parks and Recreation
in order to promote service to value and commemorate the many selfless contributions made in care of the county parks and in support of youth recreation program participants.
09:52:24 Whereas Jefferson County Washington operates 22 parks on 1,100 acres and provides recreational sports leagues the port towns and recreation center summer camps and specialized
classes and events and whereas parks and recreation would not function without volunteer service and whereas volunteer services include coaching youth sports, Rec Center programming,
youth summer camps, park maintenance, construction of park amenities, live on site, live on site, park caretakers.
09:52:55 trail construction and maintenance, landscape gardening, habitat restoration, advisory board. Whereas the county recognizes that volunteerism builds community, promotes the
economy, improves mental and physical health and benefits the natural environment and Whereas in 2,023 parks and wreck volunteers donated 4,809Â h the equivalent of 2.3 one full-time
employees and Whereas WWW dot independent sector.
09:53:25 Org estimated that 1Â h of volunteerism is valued at $31 and 80 cents and Whereas the total value of Parks and Recreation Volunteer Hours donated in 2023 is $152,926 and.
09:53:39 Now therefore be it proclaimed that the Jefferson County Board of County Commissioners does hereby recognize the volunteers of Jefferson County Parks and Recreation for their
devotion, dedication, and service and desires a permanent record of their accomplishment.
09:53:52 Approved this 20Â s day of January 2024. A little formatting issue, I think, a proclamation here.
09:54:03 Get a motion to approve the proclamation as red. I will gladly move that we adopt and approve approve this proclamation as red.
09:54:10 And they will enthusiastically second that. Okay, all those in favor please say I. Alright, great.
09:54:17 Alright, would any of the members of the Parks and Recadvisory Board like to come up and say a few words?
09:54:22 Are you still chair? Oh, John is chair. All right. Should we start with share?
09:54:29 Okay. I came on the board, Kate was the commissioner assistant then hiding now Greg. I just wanted to emphasize we volunteer for this, but we are nothing compared to the guys
out there creating trails and planning trails and kids coaching kids so I just appreciate you guys making a recommendations so that Matt can get it out to those people and we're still
trying to open.
09:55:09 Thank you, Mr. Cook. But please enjoy Chimican Park. I don't think as well well enough use.
09:55:19 Good morning. Just wanted to say that our volunteers are key in helping us. Dev the park and recreation programs.
09:55:28 That we have that are such a wonderful asset to the community. So Thank you very much for the proclamation.
09:55:34 Thank you. Thanks. Any additional comments for You know, Parks and Rec is always one of those departments that's not mandated.
09:55:47 There's so many things that we do as a county that we have to do. You know, we have to provide law enforcement.
09:55:52 We have to provide roads. We don't have to provide parks and rack and every year when this comes around and I'm often reminded, wow, 22 parts with the staff that we have is
pretty phenomenal.
09:56:01 So yeah, it's on the shoulders of the volunteers and I just appreciate you guys being here and you know being here every month and contributing to that.
09:56:10 To one of the real pleasures of Jefferson County and something that makes us a healthier community.
09:56:15 So thank you. And just to say that, you know, and. I grew up near the Chimican Beach Park in Iron Dale and spent can't say how many hundreds of hours over the course of my life
in that park still go to that park 3 times a week at least.
09:56:33 And I'm super grateful. Set of volunteers that banded together to form friends friends of Chimicum Creek and you know there's still I think it's still the same guy who takes
the garbage to the dump there when we form that volunteer group it was a I'll do the dump runs and so he's still taking.
09:56:51 All the dog clue to the dump. So. Super grateful for volunteers who step up and take care of the parks in their backyards and in our county.
09:57:04 Yeah, and, just wanna say 2, we also have, you know, to remind people we have the highest number of state park properties in our county of well of any county in the state.
09:57:15 And you know volunteers that are helping to keep those parks as vibrant as they are and I mean it's just the spirit of volunteerism in this community is so valuable and, you
know, thing about PARCC is that it pays dividends in so many ways for health, for substance use prevention.
09:57:35 This has been been proven again and again. I think about the coaches and John you've coached you you get credit for that level of volunteerism as well.
09:57:47 You know, if, how, how many, how many basketball or soccer teams? There's, you know, probably 12 at a time or something and hours and hours and hours go into direct contact.
09:57:59 With youth and that's just invaluable. It's invaluable for the kids. It's invaluable for families.
09:58:05 It's invaluable for health. So the the ripple effect of this volunteer work is much greater than we can possibly measure here and advisory board is mandated and does really
important work in helping us to set priorities and determine policy.
09:58:20 So don't underestimate the value of that either. Thank you all for being here. Thanks for your efforts.
09:58:26 Thanks to everybody who's listening. Thanks to Matt and your staff. Doing such a great job. Alright, Thanks, Matt.
09:58:33 Thank you, everyone.
09:58:37 We take a look at consent agenda real quick. Okay.
09:58:45 Hmm. I have to say I was really excited looking at this consent. I think there's a lot of great stuff, you know, Mr. Teersch amplified that that commerce contract came in a
little lower than we expected.
09:58:57 That was always a nice number was all over the board. Yeah, it was 15, then 19, now 11.
09:59:05 So is the weirdest state program I have ever interfered with. And I better face with a lot of weird ones like horse massage licensing.
09:59:11 Okay, wow. That's pretty weird. Yeah, this is weird. Because there's quite a hated massage. It even more.
09:59:21 The horse was giving it to me. And I just want, I guess I'd amplify 18 the full time equivalent position for the information technology officer.
09:59:32 You know, it was sad to see Sarah. I'm glad she's still in the county.
09:59:36 But with W twos. Yeah, totally. I got that note today. My only concern is that amount up to $100,000 I don't think is realistic.
09:59:47 I'm wondering if we should do a salary study or borrow Jeff Calm salary study. I don't even want to see what we.
09:59:56 I'd like to add a little context if I could. So in meeting, with, Mikey and Todd.
10:00:01 And Renee. What we're looking for here is probably an IS 2 or 3 to handle.
10:00:10 Service desk calls, you know, the lower level tasks. Okay. The tend to distract. The higher level, employees from, doing their higher level work.
10:00:24 Simply running through a printer problem or low level things. And as I mentioned to you this morning, Greg, that this is probably.
10:00:35 Step one in a 2 step process. But the immediate need in addition to recruiting for the 2 vacancies.
10:00:43 And we do have a couple of promising candidates for Sarah's position. Would be to get them the help so that.
10:00:50 You know the work order requests that come in on that automated system are dealt with in a prompt way because that affects productivity of the people who have the problem as
well.
10:01:00 If I can't do my work, then I'm not doing my work. And so. Once Tracy gets here, we'll conduct a higher level review and.
10:01:09 Will likely compare compensation for these positions with our counties. To help us improve our ability to recruit.
10:01:19 Excellent. That sounds great. I would just encourage, let's, leverage the work that's already been done at Jeffcom since we did go through that.
10:01:26 Yeah. That sort of that same work. I did have a similar like. Reaction to the salary for an IT professional.
10:01:34 I was like, really? Good question though. I'm curious with the new central services director coming in.
10:01:42 Is there and with so many, well, 2 vacancies and then potentially adding another position. Is there, is there any logic in letting the new director kind of?
10:01:53 Think about how she wants to structure that department. The second step, which I think is a much more.
10:02:05 Will require much more thinking. For example do we hire a managerial type who's not you know a bargaining unit member to do the strategy and the architecture and and the higher
level tasks.
10:02:18 That's a discussion that needs to wait for Tracy to get here. This however is fundamental and basic and I've already talked to Tracy about this.
10:02:29 And so I think proceeding with this is a prudent thing to do.
10:02:36 Cool. If I can ask one more question. And number 14, supportive of course. And it's, you know, I think it's already budgeted for the jabs, maintenance.
10:02:46 I'm just wondering, I feel like I see jabs all the time. Do we have separate contracts?
10:02:51 In the district and superior court? Is there any way we can? There's no way we can combine those and I probably ask this every year.
10:02:57 For equipment upgrades and district court. And Superior Court has their own separate equipment they need.
10:03:05 But this one in particular is being paid out of the trial court. Okay. It just, I mean, I don't know if there would be economies of scale.
10:03:14 Certainly I can get with Sophie and Brian and you know, we could. Explore that as long as they've been, you know, talked about it and made sure they're not economies of scale,
right?
10:03:23 I don't need to. Make busy work or anything.
10:03:26 And then just really grateful to see all the. Housing fund board recommendations printed contracts so quickly and the last one just still sad that we could not expand all those
funds and get them out into the community for the affordable house.
10:03:43 So. Get your construction to get projects together I guess. Hopefully the providers. Got the memo this year that you know we need capital projects.
10:03:54 Which we can use. This year that, you know, we need capital projects. Yeah. Which we can use. $10. Just make up the operations funds out of some other imaginary font.
10:04:00 Right. That's the challenge. Yeah. I guess I would just say that number 15, like Chim and come compliments project it's A long, long time.
10:04:12 Code compliance issue in our community out in district 2 and Super grateful looking for the creative thinking that's going into this one and.
10:04:22 You know, old headlock road becomes more difficult to navigate all the time. So, I think that this is the right thinking to address the whole site and worked with the landowner
on a kind of a resolution of this issue finally.
10:04:37 It's on queue that Pinky walked in. Chim and gum confluence project on consent agenda.
10:04:52 Alright, I don't think we are pulling anything, are we? From consent? No, I think the concerns have been addressed.
10:04:59 I'm happy to move that we approve and adopt the consent agenda as presented. I'll second that.
10:05:06 Any further discussion? All those in favor please say aye. Bye. Consent is approved unanimously.
10:05:14 So we have a 1015 discussion. Of reconvening the growth management steering committee. But that's about 10Â min out and then a 1030 workshop implementation of our new enterprise
permit and licensing suite. So excited. So excited for this.
10:05:34 I love previewing the slide deck. So, and, yeah, you've been born.
10:05:40 Now, what our department directors want to hear at least. I'm so excited about. So any, interest in a break? Sure.
10:05:57 Break? Okay, great. Let's take a break until 1015. Great, thanks.
10:06:01 And.
10:16:51 For what you say.
10:16:58 Hey, we are coming back into session after a short break. I'd like to welcome Josh Peters, director of DCD and Emma Boland, Director of planning and community development.
10:17:11 I get it right. To talk about reconvening the Graph Management Steering Committee.
10:17:14 So welcome, hand it up to you, Josh. Thank you, Chair Dean. We after following a discussion with the board recently we prepared a resolution for essentially the reconvening
the growth management steering committee as part of the 2,025 periodic update.
10:17:29 And that committee would be used as a way to have. Intricate discussion around a few specific elements.
10:17:37 Principally population projections from the state. Which one will we choose and then where will we allocate that population over the next 20 years to the year 2,045?
10:17:48 Also, we have the county wide planning policies that were a precursor to our first GMA compliant conference plan in 1998 and we haven't amended those policies since the nineties.
10:17:59 So that's another thing we could talk about doing. There's been discussion in the past about whether we wanna update those policies or not.
10:18:04 There's new state legislation. That talks about a tribal participation component to the counterweight planning policy amendment process.
10:18:11 So that's something that we also discussed. And we put the basic backs of all of these into this resolution for your consideration.
10:18:19 I was speaking with Emma Bolan about it and We talked about the composition of the community and even though we steered away from having voting members versus non voting members
and and some of the other things that perhaps have characterized the committee in the past.
10:18:33 And rather it would be a discussion forum. It's really these committees meetings are going to be board meetings.
10:18:38 With special guests, if you think of it in that way, because we also want to incorporate other stakeholders that wouldn't be necessarily members of the committee but would have
important things to say special purpose districts such as the fire districts in the school districts is an example.
10:18:51 Anyway, when we started talking about the Composition, we were just reflecting what was discussed at the last meeting.
10:18:57 So, and you'll see that section one and the whereas and page 3 of the proposed resolution. It talks about that composition and mentions 2 representatives of Port Townsend.
10:19:10 More specifically, my understanding is that they've traditionally had 3 members that are part of their growth.
10:19:15 Management committee or subcommittee of the city council. Thanks so much, Josh. I'm a bowling director of planning and community development for the city of Port Townsend.
10:19:24 The city is really pleased to, collaborate with the county on this important and intricate work, as Josh mentioned.
10:19:35 And I think it's important, the city believes it's important to get the composition. Correct for this committee and ensure that we have representation.
10:19:45 We've already assigned the council committee assignments. And so we have 3 very eager council members who you know the mayor for one actually was elected mayor because of his
interest in the conference a plan and really would like to dig in to this committee.
10:20:04 And we want to make sure that, you know, we're well matched in representation. And so we would recommend, you know, retaining the 3 city council members that were assigned to
the committee that way we don't face the political decision of who to eliminate once they've already been assigned.
10:20:21 And we also support, you know, efficiency and having a concurrency based committee with the special guests as Josh had mentioned since there's going to be some really important
topic to get through over the next coming months.
10:20:38 Hmm. It's thank you. So, what would be helpful in terms of the scope of the conversation today, Josh?
10:20:47 Okay. Well, if we wanted to respond affirmatively to what Ms. Bolan just presented, then we would simply change one word in section one on page 3 of the proposed resolution.
10:21:01 From 2 representatives of the Port Townsend City Council to 3 representatives of the Port Townsend City Council.
10:21:06 Just on a related note, it does say one representative of the commission of the Port of Port Townsend.
10:21:12 My understanding is there may be actually a staff member assigned to that. Being the deputy director, archaves.
10:21:17 Probably doesn't matter too much. In some ways, we interpret this as whatever those parties want to do in terms of representation.
10:21:23 So, but unless we want we could choose to generalize that rather than saying commission or we could just leave it as it is and and assume essentially that the commission of
the 44 Townsend has decided to put Lister Taves in that spot.
10:21:36 So. There's that. And then finally,
10:21:40 We also have talked about picking a representative. Essentially of your selection to for the I'm in Port Hadlock, urban growth area and whether we make that decision now or
sometime soon from my standpoint just need to know.
10:21:55 Where we're heading with that so that when we put out the invitations, we make sure to include that person.
10:21:59 So that's something else we could talk about if we have time here before the next item at 1030.
10:22:06 That's on composition. So I'm wondering in terms of the.
10:22:13 Kind of the purview of the. Steering Committee.
10:22:19 Do we have balanced geographic representation, I guess is what I'm wondering. If there's 3.
10:22:28 Folks from the city of Port Townsend should there be more people from the new UGA in Habock.
10:22:34 Oh, that wouldn't be balanced. Representation either, would it? Well, I mean, there's 3 of us, right?
10:22:41 So we're. Balanced and then there's I don't know. I just don't know what the exact.
10:22:48 Duties of this steering committee are to understand the implications of the geographic makeup. Of the commission or committee.
10:22:59 We started to talk about this last time in terms of the history of this committee. Starting in the nineties and then adding the port, 1999 and then in 2,015 when the last time
we went through this population allocation process, we had 3 representatives is my understanding from the port headlock UGA.
10:23:15 I also would say that in the past perhaps it's a little more formalized in terms of voting membership and things like that.
10:23:21 And if we're staring it more towards a discussion forum. All 3 county commissioners will be part of this so essentially it's a board of county commissioners meeting.
10:23:29 With particular stakeholders involved. So the the basics of the committee, the basic responsibilities are to advise you.
10:23:39 Because it is the county that would essentially select the population allocation in coordination with cities. And of course we only have one.
10:23:48 And then allocate population accordingly per the GMA. We have some additional things to talk about this this cycle because of the housing element changes that were enacted by
the legislature, which involves planning for income bands.
10:24:02 And so we've started that conversation with the city. I have another meeting set up this week for that and that is something we want to talk to the steering committee about.
10:24:08 And then eventually reach a recommendation essentially for your consideration and action. In the past, there's been a joint resolution for population allocation between Texas
County and our only city, the city of Port Townsend.
10:24:19 There are other members as we heard from the last intergovernmental collaborative group meeting that want to be part of the conversation around growth as a whole throughout
the county.
10:24:29 I remember for example the PUD wanted to talk about planning for power and water in that conversation. And then.
10:24:37 I guess I would say that you could go and find 3 people from the port. You, if you wanted to be part of that conversation, whether formally or informally.
10:24:47 Essentially, I think we were leaning towards just having one person just to streamline the process and to get it going because we'd really like to have the first meeting on
February eighth if we can't then we'll just delay it but the reason why again just to remind you was that was one week prior to the next ICG meeting.
10:25:02 And so if we were able to start the conversation through this committee, perhaps even choose one of the. Ranges of population estimation low medium high then we could report
out those results in the following week and then talk about what the Steering Committee was planning to do ahead.
10:25:18 We've already started collaborating with the city staff on planning out say 4 or 5 steering committee meetings period.
10:25:26 So in some ways, grabbing, trying to find 3 people and then assigning them in that respect.
10:25:31 Would be in a lot of effort in a sense to get 4 or 5 meetings going. However, all that said, if you have 3 people in mind, just have to change the word like just change the
number right there on the resolution.
10:25:41 We could do that. I hope it doesn't take 5Â min, meet 5 meetings to come to the medium conclusion, which I'm happy to vote on right now.
10:25:51 But then we were targeting that for the first day. And then, but the other things are a little bit more complicated.
10:25:53 The, the income housing band situation, we know that they're housing data needs and assessment committee meeting of the housing fund board that was delayed and so we're we want
to listen to those parties.
10:26:03 Before we come to a staff recommendation about that, I think it so that would be in future meetings. And then we have the whole countywide planning policy, which we wouldn't
want to rush into that because especially because of the new statutory requirements.
10:26:16 I guess I have clarifying question for Emma, really. And that's how does this interface with the city's planning and their comp plan.
10:26:23 I mean, in the same way that that I'm fine with 3 city council members. I'll just say on this on this committee and I'm I also think that the city planning, I just finding finding
a harmony between the city and the county is something I really appreciate you guys leading and I want to participate in it.
10:26:41 And I, you know, I think this committee might have. Conversations about city planning or I mean, what's the interface there?
10:26:47 I guess is my question.
10:26:49 So I think that we need to consider, you know, the give and take between the city and county in terms of how we're going to meet our statutory requirements for housing.
10:27:00 And so we don't, you know, we need to do some more baseline assessment to figure out where we fall with in those requirements and what our projected housing need is going to
be.
10:27:11 And so I think that you're gonna want, you know, experts on both sides to be talking about where they see infill growth or you know where it can happen and you know.
10:27:22 You're UGA is gonna really factor into that. So. You know having somebody on and representing the your UGA try areas we are also a UGA so we gotta keep them straight.
10:27:36 I think will be important as well. So it's probably wise to have somebody who understands the growth patterns.
10:27:43 There. And I guess I don't really have anything else more to say on it other than it will be a process to ensure that, you know, We are, you know, you cannot fit that we can
fit and vice versa.
10:27:57 So. Okay, I guess what I was really, I don't think I was very clear in my question.
10:28:03 Will this committee have any recommendations to the city?
10:28:11 Good question. I think that this committee may yield some recommendations on. How growth is going to occur in Port Townsend in terms of just very broadly are we looking at more
green field development?
10:28:33 Are we looking at maximizing infill development? What we also have going on on top of that is an urban forestry plan and an active transportation plan update.
10:28:43 And we have some middle housing funded work to do as well. So there may be some recommendations, based off of what you.
10:28:53 Find out about, you know, your try areas, UGA. I think it would be really important for us to understand.
10:29:01 What level of housing can be accommodated there? So it will help us with our baseline data. Thank you.
10:29:13 If I could just add on to what Emma just said. I see this committee as being principally an advisory committee to the Board of County Commissioners for these county responsibilities.
10:29:23 Choosing a population estimation to plan for. Allocating that population. And also the counterweight planning policies.
10:29:30 But it'd be impossible essentially to make a recommendation without taking to a context what all the various entities are doing, especially the city.
10:29:39 So I guess I would look at it that way. But it's a great place to have this conversation.
10:29:43 K is good. Follow up clarifying question, which is do city and county need to reach concurrence on those?
10:29:50 Those housing allocation and population estimates. So do we have to put in our account plans the same allocation?
10:30:02 I'm not looking at the GMA in front of me right now, but I believe the word is in coordination with so the county is in coordination with cities make these decisions.
10:30:10 There may be other cases I can picture other counties. That have numerous cities having. Boisterous discussion and perhaps.
10:30:18 Difficulty achieving unanimity across the board. I do, I believe, and ultimately it's accounting responsibility to do it, but clearly in coordination with cities is the right
way to go.
10:30:27 It's always been that way in Jefferson County with our one city. And so and we don't anticipate any trouble there.
10:30:32 What we anticipate is just having some choices to make this time that are going to look a little different than last time just based on a variety of factors.
10:30:38 Sewers can come online in 2025. We're talking about as you know, changing the port towns and urban growth area boundary.
10:30:46 It's the first time it's been talked about I think since the 19 nineties and so Those are things that naturally we would want to be in agreement about.
10:30:54 And I think this. There's a staff level effort there and then this is a great way to continue that conversation broader with the board.
10:31:01 We also have the ICG of course and then ultimately we'd have to make some choices together.
10:31:05 So I guess I look at it being a county person perhaps biased, but also the way the act is set up countywide planning policies, for example, are the responsibility of the county.
10:31:14 And of course, we want input from everybody who's interested. And I would say that if we're going to start talking about actually taking an action to change the port towns and
urban growth area boundary, we would want the county wide planning policies to reflect that.
10:31:26 It's sort of the the talk that we're having now, which is why we're frontloading these meetings for 5 meetings now, this first half of 2024 is in order to set the table.
10:31:36 For us to continue planning which will go all the way through. June of 2025 at least. Mark, did you have something?
10:31:45 Well, I was gonna say. At 2016. Clark County we had 6 cities to deal with and we came to agreement on population allocations.
10:31:53 Much 6 times as difficult as this will be. Although we do have some complicating factors and I think Josh discuss them.
10:32:02 Expanding the UGA, the city potentially, and of course the great unknown of the UGA and Hadlock.
10:32:09 Will growth there be meteoric or will it be sluggish? We don't know.
10:32:15 And so reaching an agreement will be. I don't think challenging, but certainly it'll take some work.
10:32:26 I'll say my. Josh and I talked about it this weekend a little bit. My only concern about the composition was just how much of the countywide planning policies are really specific
to county.
10:32:40 Interests and outside of. Kind of the interests of the city. And I still don't have an answer to that question, but I'm not, I'm not too concerned about proceeding with the
3 city members, but I do want to acknowledge we have different interests.
10:32:57 You know, and I have a great deal of respect for city staff and city council members that they are, you know, tasked with.
10:33:07 Their interests and our are broader. And so I want to set us up for success and that so that we are working together on the things where those interests.
10:33:18 You know, overlap or sometimes, you know, might be at odds with one another, but that's the task is to figure that out.
10:33:26 But then if we're talking about specifically rural issues that you know, that we're not. You know, trying to have equal footing with the city when it's like, no, this is actually
our authority and our.
10:33:40 Per view. So just wanna, I would still like to better understand the, scope of the county planning policies and I don't and I haven't seen them and we talked about this where
do we even where do they live right now we don't know where to find them so Just, you know, I just wanna.
10:33:58 Be aware that there are there might be issues that come up that it's. Where that equal representation of elected, I think, is, you know, just could, could get a little bit tricky
and I have good faith that we will be able to figure it out, but, because this is advisory this time and not voting.
10:34:21 I think might. Eliminate that as a threat? Yeah, as an example. So, you know, I've been interested in this kind of rural village model where we're going to say, yeah, in a,
in a lambard to acknowledge the, the services that whammers already, yeah, in a, in a lamb or to acknowledge the, the services that lamards already provide and is there a way that we
could do a better job
10:34:42 of creating density there that prevents sprawl that can be better served by transit, you know, using a smart planning model for landlords and you know the city very well might.
10:34:53 Not have interest in that or even be opposed to it. And you know, that, but that is like.
10:34:59 That does fall clearly into our purview. We're not allowed to really increase much.
10:35:06 Population there with current restrictions to lame. So I don't think it's too involved with the allocation discussion.
10:35:15 So it just, you know, there are things that I think that we We'll have to kind of figure out as we go.
10:35:21 But again, without knowing what per view of the Canada web planning policies, it's a little hard to.
10:35:26 Can I throw a brainstorm on top of your comments? And that's what if we had someone from the Brennan Lammers as a member which would represent Lammers in general also something
that is lot of planning work is going into Brennan right now trying to Short out a myriad of issues.
10:35:43 So what would you guys think about? As well as the 3, city council members, Brennan, LAN, I guess, what, sorry, I'm facing the wrong way.
10:35:54 What would you guys think about adding a Brennan representative?
10:36:00 Feels like we might wanna consider adding a Shimcom Lambert representative, you know, there's a lot of conversations.
10:36:07 Happening there right now. I mean, I mean, this could become a, I get it. We need to be nimble and able to move and.
10:36:15 I'm hearing that and thinking, well, yeah, I have identified one person in the port. I'm comfortable.
10:36:22 I'm excited about. And I feel like if we keep adding. It's just gonna. Yeah, no, it gets on gaming pretty quickly.
10:36:30 And especially for the immediate need is this initial work for the to be able to proceed with account plan. And then I think we've kind of left with the ability to invite.
10:36:40 Other folks in for. Appreciate discussion. That was gonna be my response and I know we're starting to bleed into the next topic here, but I guess I would say that principally
In the past, my understanding of those population allocation resolutions is that they simply say, here's the estimate that we're choosing and we're allocating this percentage of that
to this UGA, this percentage
10:37:03 to that UG and the rest of it to the rest of the world lands. So I guess I would say that You might want to have this other discussion around Lambert's actually, especially
if you're worried about sort of the interests, not aligning or even being something that you believe is outside of the city's principal interest to have that kind of discussion elsewhere,
like for example the planning commission or having special meetings where
10:37:24 we dedicate to that particular topic. I can already think of one topic that's going to be like that, which is probably going to be something to do with the Quinn, Indian Nation,
which has nothing to do with the city of Port Townsend because that will be a county white playing policy issue according to possible 7 1017.
10:37:38 So. I guess I would think it more like special interest special stakeholders are invited to conversations and if you want to run that through this body great if you don't we
can we have other forums like such as the Planning Commission and ultimately again it's just advisor if you wanted to find out where things maybe don't align this could be a good form
to have that discussion.
10:37:56 Then you can at least learn what the what the city counselors who are representing the city think about particular issue, but ultimately encounter where playing policies are
something that the county would choose to amend.
10:38:06 Yeah, and I just wanna set us up for success. Not for. You know, sort of exacerbating divisions or different interests.
10:38:18 I'm I'm very flexible. I make one more pick for Brennan though looking at the last population projections, one of the big population growth areas is Pleasant Harbor.
10:38:30 We have an NPR going in there as well as a Lammered. So I just it's one of the areas that we are pushing.
10:38:34 Growth. Representation and that from that area. And seems reasonable to me, but I don't think.
10:38:40 I'm happy to add the 3 and I also just one other thing looking at the section one I think a representative of the commission of the port of Port Townsend as long as they take
action in a meeting, I think that's the current language is fine for that.
10:38:55 But if we're gonna amend it anyway, it could just say a representative of the Port of Port Townsend.
10:39:01 Yeah. Although, I mean, we are talking mostly about elected here. So if they make the action to delegate, it's none, wouldn't be a problem with the existing language.
10:39:10 Right.
10:39:17 Right, any other? Comments again, like I wish I could see the countywide planning policies to see how many of them are going to deal with Brennan, you know, what's the range
of issues that those?
10:39:32 I think it's only like 1516, 17, but I will I will send you that as soon as I get back to the office, Commissioner Dean, and I guess I would also say that.
10:39:43 This committee can.
10:39:46 Deal with any issue you wish it to. So in other words, if there are county abide planning policies that specifically deal with the gateway between unincorporated Jefferson County
and the city Port Townsend, that could be an issue that this committee wrestles with.
10:39:58 If you want it. I guess I would say that if there's other county finding policies that don't involve the city.
10:40:04 I mean, it's your choice to move it through this committee for advice or not. You know, I, because I would look at it that way.
10:40:10 But ideally we come to concurrence on the Countyway planning policies with the city too, right? Yes.
10:40:15 And this is the forum to do that. And it's you said it's not necessarily required or If you look at the act, I think it's pretty simple.
10:40:24 And since it doesn't talk about committees and things like that, it just says. The counter, the population allocation in coordination with cities and then there's a section
on canaway planning policies and ultimate that's the county.
10:40:34 This county wide thing. I mean, as you know, so King County is what? 39 cities.
10:40:40 So, I mean. There every every county does it differently. I'm happy to move that we approve a resolution re-establishing a multi jurisdiction.
10:40:48 Growth Management Steering Committee for the purpose of advising the Board of County Commissioners on Growth Management Act.
10:40:53 Planning activities including but not limited to population projections and population and employment allocation. And amending countywide planning policies, amending resolution.
10:41:05 107 dash 91 resolution 1 2 8 dash 92 and resolution 40 dash 99. With how many city council members.
10:41:21 Oh, and adding. In section one. Amending section 1, 2. 3.
10:41:33 Representatives of the Port Townsend City Council. I'll second, but I like a little more conversation.
10:41:40 Alright, discussion. You guys aren't interested in that a Brendan member. May have you learned one of us planning now?
10:41:47 Projections. I've looked at him but I I've been pushing a lot of growth to Brennan.
10:41:55 Right now. Is it residential gross? Yeah, 800 units that But I was considered. Well, they're listed in the Cop Plans residential.
10:42:08 I mean, they're ERUs. You know, the most of them are Most of those units are not full time residents, but.
10:42:14 Similarly, there's a lot of complexity coming online with the new urban growth area in the county in Port Hadlock and we have one person representing that.
10:42:25 So you're right, we do have representation. Good. I.
10:42:32 Again, I'm, it's so like, I wish I understood the scope better of the.
10:42:39 Of the entity, and certainly not opposed to having representation from Britain, I'm, you know, I think what we want to accomplish is that the right people are at the table for
the right conversations.
10:42:56 And
10:43:00 Yeah. Do not believe we're planning to have. Public comment on this.
10:43:10 Yeah, I think in the interest of time since we're already going well into our next. I know I'm not gonna take.
10:43:14 Public coming up this time. I am not opposed to adding a, a Britain representative.
10:43:22 I'm not opposed to it either. I just feel like it. To Josh's comment, I mean, when we add complexity to it.
10:43:32 Pretty focused group to get this initial work done. And That's complexity, but can say it's fine.
10:43:40 Would you be willing to amend your motion?
10:43:46 Okay, you could just amend your motion to include the addition of a representative of the Britain UGA.
10:43:53 Yeah. And so happy to. Accept a friendly room amendment of adding one. Representative of the Brennan, representative of the Brennan Lammered.
10:44:06 Oh, sorry. Okay. I consider that a friendly amendment. I'm sorry. Okay. I can say that a friendly amendment. All right. I'm gonna accept it. Any further discussion?
10:44:17 All Adopting the resolution with 2 amendments as discussed today, please say aye. Aye. Approved.
10:44:26 Thank you. Yeah, so much. And, Josh. Yes, that's 10.
10:44:41 We have a workshop on the implementation of the enterprise permit and licensing so folks don't mind coming up and getting set up. Next we have a workshop on the implementation
of the enterprise permit and licensing.
10:44:52 So folks don't mind coming up and getting set Thank you, Mom. Thanks, you guys.
10:44:53 Thanks so much. Thanks, Josh. Hmm. See, I need to bring more shares up.
10:45:03 I think you just need cherry to begin with. That's needed. We can bring others to the table.
10:45:07 Good to see everyone here though. Really excited about this.
10:45:11 Number talking about this during my campaign. You gonna queue this up, Mark? Yes, I am.
10:45:18 Thank you. So commissioners, We're going to talk about interrogative today.
10:45:24 That's a name that's sort of infamous these days. So, before we get started and before I put the presentation up on the screen, I just like to make sure that the commissioners
are aware of who's in the room.
10:45:39 Over there is our permit center coordinator and intergov expert. Soon to be, right?
10:45:46 Cause you're on a steep learning curve, Erin Martin. Phil Cecier are fire marshal and building official Scott Carpenter.
10:45:53 One of the slides here when you look here about mitigation measures, he's a mitigation measure, our database expert.
10:46:02 Then of course Josh Peters, a community development director, Apple Martin, public health director, thinking Mingo.
10:46:08 Environmental public health manager and then of course Surery Moulin who's in the hot seat today.
10:46:16 She's our contracted project manager, which is another mitigation measure that you'll see on the slide.
10:46:20 And. I think the board knows that this has been a problematic implementation. I think we started in 2,018 about the same time we started with MEANS financials.
10:46:31 We went live on Muniz financials in the summer of 2021 and they've had great success with that.
10:46:37 We had much more difficulty with this implementation. And I, do need to say that, we were implementing a new permitting system in Clark County and it was a remarkably difficult.
10:46:51 And problem plagued implementation as well, even though we went with a work day, I believe, instead of, Coming off a tide mark that we've been on for what?
10:47:04 25 years proved to be a difficult thing to do. And And, so with that, I'm going to queue up the presentation for the benefit of the public.
10:47:19 Thank you. Thanks, Apple. Okay.
10:47:33 Sorry, my mouse hand is encumbered.
10:47:48 Okay, there we go. So Sherry, the floor is yours. Just tell me when to advance the slide.
10:47:53 Good morning. So, I've been on board since like late August. And was brought in to help with the implementation of Intergov.
10:48:08 And so it's been a steep learning curve for me and getting to know the product and the team and everything.
10:48:15 So. This is kind of a culmination of like. Where I feel like where we're at, what we've been able to do, where our challenges are, that kind of thing.
10:48:25 I do want to make a note here that The recent version upgrades of Intergov and moving forward it will be called enterprise permit and licensing EPL.
10:48:36 So, I know we're all used to calling it, but probably need to start changing that.
10:48:44 When we're referring to it with the software vendor and stuff. That's what they call it.
10:48:51 So we're going to go through accomplishments, challenges. I know you guys are getting a lot of pressure for the CSS portal.
10:48:59 So opening this up to the public and what we need to do in order to accommodate that. And then our next steps.
10:49:06 So next slide. I left this in this was in the last presentation. I thought it was kind of fun because it it does You know, this is a long process to get this thing in and all
facets of it working.
10:49:18 So, we're kind of at the toddler stage right now, I would guess.
10:49:23 And I will go over that handout that I sent you. I didn't get it done before this presentation went out.
10:49:29 So I just thought I would give it to you as an attachment. And that will help to draw some bull's eyes on the targets for what we need to do to advance in our state of life
up here.
10:49:42 So.
10:49:43 Let me this. Okay, so accomplishments.
10:49:49 In the last 6 months, Scott and the IT team have worked diligently to get the product upgraded.
10:49:57 We were behind several versions and, Tyler was gonna stop support for the versions that we were on.
10:50:05 So we were really under the gun to get those upgraded. And so we've gone through a couple of versions.
10:50:11 We are now at the latest and greatest of what Intergov, I'm sorry, what Tyler has.
10:50:17 So, and now it's called EPO. And one of the first things that I started on was to document some of the core processes.
10:50:25 We have a lot more to go. But we've got, you know, 7 or 8 done.
10:50:30 One of the things I found out was we were trying to configure this application to have behaviors that were in people's heads.
10:50:36 They were never written down. There's no process flows or anything like that. And truthfully, you could take 2 different people from the same department and they might have
a slightly different way that they want to do it.
10:50:49 And so That's not the way we want to make this tool behave. We want to agree on a process and then let's configure it.
10:50:56 And then that way we can dish that work out. Folks if we can get some consultants in to help or, you know.
10:51:05 Give somebody a process flow and say this is the behavior we want. So I've listed the ones that are there and I'm happy to give you guys pronounce of those if you want they're
nice looking process flows and eventually we'll have like narrative.
10:51:19 So actually a process steps to go through it. So if we hire a new inspector, we could say, here, here's the process flows you participate in.
10:51:29 Here's the narratives on how to use Intergov for it. So we have nothing to spin people up.
10:51:32 There's nothing. Kind of shoulder surfing right now. And so when people leave, which there's been a lot of that lose a lot of tribal knowledge.
10:51:42 And then we have to spin folks up with. Not a lot of documentation stuff. So that's been very helpful.
10:51:50 And now we can all agree on this is the process flows are really what I call future state. So it's not necessarily how we're doing it today.
10:51:57 It's how we want to do it. Incorporating the tool in every step of the way.
10:52:03 When I started, there was a problem log that had a lot of issues on it. We added a lot more because I became a central repository if there's something that we need to change
with the tool or something that's not working.
10:52:15 Sent them all to me, I want to collect them all so that then we could prioritize them and then start knocking them out.
10:52:21 So we knocked out about 40. We have right now currently have 98 and that fluxes all the time because we're adding some to so but we are making pretty good progress on that.
10:52:34 We've got the iPads working in. Phil's like the guru on that.
10:52:38 If you want to kind of tell that's a really cool solution, the iPads with being able to do inspections and.
10:52:45 Sure, do you want to come up? Thank you. The more the board hurts today, the better.
10:52:58 Thanks for the fire marshal hat by the way. I don't need one. I'm kidding. I don't need that.
10:53:13 So yeah, if you look at, jumping a little bit ahead to, what. Sherry is provided in these sheets in front of you.
10:53:19 A lot of the green on the DCD side is actually in my team which. Wasn't by no accident.
10:53:25 I mean, there was a lot of configuration that I did early on. I also think that our team, the build team probably has the most amount of staff that attended the.
10:53:35 Tyler training that was here at the courthouse. So you know we lost a lot of that.
10:53:39 Fortunately in my department, we didn't have a whole lot or on my team rather we didn't have a whole lot of turnover.
10:53:44 We have new permit tax and everything and that's great. They've come on board and done really well with it.
10:53:49 So at this point, with EPL from permit intake. Through the workflow, review stage inspections, issuing the permit and, Actually, I shouldn't just to give occupancy all happen
through EPL.
10:54:04 So that's what I would consider an accomplishment. The iPads, cause I know they weren't working out.
10:54:11 So it's EPL on the iPads. So there's, there's kind of a, there's a, there's kind of a, there's an app called, IG Inspect, which is through Tyler, which interfaces with, APL.
10:54:21 And so We also went through with each one of those inspections when we go out on the field. It's a recording live, you know, it's real time.
10:54:29 So as we go through this Inspector Goes to and science things off, I can tell immediately within the portal.
10:54:35 You know, the portal obviously isn't public facing yet, but I can see it on the back side.
10:54:39 And I do kind of track and see where the inspectors are during their day. There's also some reporting features in here that work really well.
10:54:45 That like I can see. You know, what the average, inspection time is, what the average, inspection, how many inspections per day an inspector can do.
10:54:54 You know, granted, you know, geographically it depends on the day but on average it helped us a lot to develop a performer for future inspections and things like that.
10:55:03 You know, what should be a benchmark, you know, for what we can expect to do. As far as the iPads themselves, we've had really, really good interaction, with our contractors
because at the push of a button at the end of an inspection, we can send that inspection result.
10:55:18 If there is corrections, it's fantastic. We can list the corrections. We can snap a picture with the iPad.
10:55:23 We can send it off an attachment or email. So, you know, a picture worth a thousand words.
10:55:27 It's exactly what it is. We can know, need additional mail in here, take a big circle of it, send it off, you know, so there's no miscommunication between that.
10:55:34 We still currently are. Carrying around paper corrections as well for, you know, some folks that aren't as tech savvy or you would prefer something to remain on site.
10:55:47 The biggest thing on that, they can't follow up. They will get an email, but they couldn't follow up on a data on a portal per se.
10:55:56 Hence our CSS portal. The share is going to go into a little bit later. But we're pretty much using the program as it is designed to use with some hiccups, granted, but we're
able to use it on a daily basis.
10:56:06 So I would, I would, call that in a accomplishment for sure. Excellent. Yeah.
10:56:14 And is that Jefferson County tie your wearing? Yes it is. Sorry to interrupt. I'm distracted by it.
10:56:34 So any other questions about that about how we use the product or how, you know, successes that we're having with it.
10:56:35 Sounds great. Yeah, no, it sounds great. I mean, I'm cool. I can dig in for half an hour about that why it wasn't working before but I don't need to.
10:56:46 Well then there is there is some added potential future capabilities to because Tyler does have a standalone fire module you know that assists in helping have recurring cases
and things like that.
10:56:54 We don't subscribe to it now and I don't think that we're at the point where we would need to.
10:57:00 I'm able to do what I need to do at this point within our current program, but it would be really nice to have that future functionality should we decide to implement that?
10:57:12 Let's, let's get this figured out first and then we'll expand, but, but that does have that future capability.
10:57:20 Thanks, Phil. Well, keep things moving. So later fish integration, it's complete.
10:57:25 It does have a manual component, so it's not completely automated, but laser fish is basically where all the documents are stored.
10:57:34 And the next one below there is naming conventions established and adopted. So in order for the laser fish portion to work.
10:57:43 We had to come up with naming standards because that API, the interface for laserfish uses the naming convention to figure out where it's going to put stuff and what type of
document that is.
10:57:54 And you can imagine there's a lot of different types of documents with this system. I ask a question on that. Yep.
10:58:01 Is that retroactively been those conventions been applied or are there still lots of orphans from before the conventions were.
10:58:07 We've been working on cleaning that up right now. We've got about less than a thousand documents.
10:58:14 So there's basically they go into a repository and then there's a And API that's manually fired off that scrapes those and puts them on to laser fish.
10:58:27 And so anything that's left in there, we can look at and we wanted it that way because I can go back and see who originated those documents.
10:58:34 Or why they're not being scraped off. And some of them are because maybe it's a new permit type or something and we haven't created that repository on laser fish and some of
them are just clearly misnamed so that we can go back training opportunity for the person who did those, you know, get them renamed and then.
10:58:50 Fired off so excellent. It's working it's working pretty well. There was you know thousands a few months ago so we've also put in place a change management process because there's
lots of people tweaking the system.
10:59:07 And again, if it's not orchestrated and we're not following it to the process flows that we've designed, it's just too many cooks in the kitchen doesn't make a good meal.
10:59:16 So change control processes some control points around that. And then I wanted to just kinda highlight that, you know, the team is a lot of changes hard in organizations and
so I do see often where there's a real reluctance to use a new tool.
10:59:33 That's not the case here. Everybody's embracing it. Yes, until it's configured properly, it's not necessarily making your job more efficient.
10:59:41 It's probably making it a little slower. And I get that, but that's just because it's not configured properly.
10:59:48 And so, you know, there's there's a little bit of pain in using it because everybody's busy and there's a backlog and that kind of thing but and then the last one is, there's
a hub and it's basically like a dashboard that tells you how many inspections are, you know, do and that kind of thing.
11:00:07 And, from the conversion there was thousands listed there so it really wasn't something that was accurate.
11:00:14 And it's not a hundred percent accurate, but it's much better now. It's down to like, I don't know, a thousand or so.
11:00:23 And so that's getting much more manageable and and now it's becoming more informational more valuable to everybody because that in the beginning when I talked to everybody like
nobody trusted the data. Right.
11:00:35 So it's like. Yeah, a lot of standalone Excel spreadsheet, right?
11:00:36 Where they duplicated efforts. Right. That's great. Okay, so challenges this is kind of
11:00:48 The hurdles that I'm looking at over the next 6 to 12 months. So, there's Obviously we've had.
11:00:58 Turnover within the county. In in all departments but most recently even is IT so I believe there was 4 IT people, leaf that I know of and Sarah has left and now DJ has given
notice.
11:01:15 So now we're down to 2. And that's a critical stage or state rather, in my opinion.
11:01:24 Sarah was taking care of the servers, so making sure they're up and running every time, you know, once in a while we have to restart processes.
11:01:32 She was instrumental and getting them upgraded. You know, just the care and feeding ongoing of those servers.
11:01:38 Not to mention, you know, the workstations and laptops and all the other technologies. So.
11:01:44 Is not a total loss. She has a lot to learn on the payroll side, but she's gonna help implement ESS.
11:01:53 I'm on the Muna side for, employees to check their own time and request vacations and we can get rid of the paper pay stubs and all of that and she's also agreed to help continue
stewardship of.
11:02:10 The MUNIS financial system and the Intergov, pending the hiring of a new individual who could be trained up on what Sarah does.
11:02:18 And so, it appears to be a total loss, but it isn't. Then.
11:02:24 We are going to be interviewing for a replacement for Sarah probably in the next week to 10 days.
11:02:34 She's bribable, I think. 1, 2, 3, I think she's bribable.
11:02:39 Yeah. We all are. The next one is to, we need to develop new staff training plans and training material again, you know.
11:02:48 I kind of look at the best predictor of future behavior as fast behavior and I don't really see I mean I don't know if it's a COVID thing or a county thing but there's probably
gonna continue to be turnover so I want to make sure that moving forward as we're building this thing, we're building it so that we can spin folks up quickly.
11:03:06 And then if people leave, we're not losing that tribal knowledge, you know, processes that they're involved in, stuff like that Sarah does.
11:03:13 I want that stuff documented so that the next person coming in has a has a starting point there. So that's kind of those 2 bullets.
11:03:22 We need a better change and security management. I did put change control out there. We need to get folks using it.
11:03:30 We need to lock down security so that, you know, not too many people have the ability to change stuff.
11:03:35 Right now in the effort of just trying to get things going, that I think there's probably a half a dozen or more people that are listed as super users.
11:03:45 And that's too many. Too many people to change things. We really want to control those changes.
11:03:53 We have very limited, expertise on EPL. Scott's cell starter.
11:03:59 He's done fabulous but I mean he's it. So there are some people who have gone through the initial training, but not on a high technical level.
11:04:09 We don't have a lot of expertise in house on laser fish. I think Scott and DJ kind of knew the most and we're losing DJ.
11:04:20 Well, Dave Olson knew the most and we lost him. 2 plus years ago and DJ stepped up and now we're losing DJ. Yup.
11:04:27 We have some complexity. So the path that I have. Look at like that we that was chosen before me.
11:04:36 To work with some third party so laser fish is a third party app there's online army which is a application or a database that septic inspectors put their reports in and we
want to be able to feed those in.
11:04:52 And then there's a DIY septic which enables the public to take a test and become certified to do their own septic inspections and, you know, managing that.
11:05:02 Those are all third party. Applications or systems that there's been an effort, to tie those into Intergov.
11:05:13 Online RME has been worked on for over a year and it's just now showing signs of feasibility.
11:05:22 However, it's very fragile. If one thing changes on either side, Tyler's side are on online Army.
11:05:29 It's not going to work. And again, like some of the people who developed that or did portions of the coding aren't here anymore.
11:05:36 So I want to point that out because I do believe that simplification would benefit us. And I have some ideas on those things.
11:05:45 And then, limitations in the technology to support growth of the environment. So we do have some storage limitations on the Jefferson County servers, especially with laser fish.
11:05:56 And then we don't have a testing environment right now. So we're using what they call a train environment for EPL.
11:06:03 So it'd be really nice to have a train environment where we could actually do training and set up scenarios to train people.
11:06:09 Test environment for testing upgrades and things like that and then our production environment. So, so customer service portal.
11:06:22 So right now, the team has agreed that we can. Probably roll out by July one. Phase one it's very simple but I'm hoping that maybe it will help alleviate some of the pressure
that you guys are feeling.
11:06:37 And it's basically gonna be just simple searches. So search by parcel number by address or using the mapping utility.
11:06:48 I have another slide at the end of this if we want to go into it just to kind of give you an idea of what needs to happen in order for that.
11:06:54 To occur. We've got a fair bit of data cleanup to do. We've got to figure out a web front end.
11:07:01 We've got to have are people gonna log in? You know, are we gonna grant logins for folks?
11:07:08 Definitely for phase 2, we'll have to have logins, but we may want to implement that on phase one.
11:07:14 But we can actually do this today. It's not as clean as I would like. And so that's by between now and July first it's gonna we're gonna Clean it up make it super simple and
get the get the basic data out there to the public.
11:07:32 Okay. Go ahead. I have a question too. Maybe the same one is.
11:07:37 I'm just wondering if that phase one is going to integrate with the GIS. So if you're on GIS, you could get to this portal and vice versa, you know, like.
11:07:43 It says, do you mind coming up and you want to Mike Scott? Okay. You could probably just leave that chair up there.
11:07:54 So if you're referring to the active link to go in and. Use the JS portal to click on permits for that.
11:08:06 The answer that is yes. Will, instead of pointing to the the custom solution that was implemented over the last 25 years will point it to the the new portal.
11:08:20 And then hopefully be able to link up the parcel number or something like that for users to. To, see the information they're after.
11:08:28 That's great. So what records would be available in this phase one that are not currently available on.
11:08:37 The GIS system. Permit. Phase one will essentially emulate. Which you can see in GIS currently with the older permits.
11:08:49 Which stopped when you know that came so it's only up to a certain day. So phase 2 is to allow more.
11:08:59 We're like an owner or a contractor can. Do more things within a dialogue.
11:09:07 Yeah, more dialogue within the application. That's what's gonna happen with phase 2.
11:09:11 But to be able to view permits and plans and. That have occurred on a parcel or a property, you'll be able to do that in phase one.
11:09:19 Excellent. Thank you. Thanks, Scott. Yeah, phase 2.
11:09:27 We're looking at, you know, intelligent forms so you can actually fill out, you know, a request for a We need to have intelligent intake forms for permits being able to pay
your fees, and then we want to have intelligent intake forms for permits, being able to pay your fees, and then detailed searching with the, attach And I will at the end of this, I'll
give you guys a
11:09:47 link. Boulder. The city of older city of Boulder, Colorado. We've looked at a lot of different sites and that one is the one that we want to model.
11:09:58 It is a beautiful site. It's easy, it's simple, you can go out there, you can do searches, I'll get you guys the link to that.
11:10:06 But that'll give you an idea of kinda what we're thinking would be a good solution.
11:10:14 Okay, next steps. So After having been here for What? 5 months? 6 months.
11:10:24 It's really started to occur to me that, you know, based on the limited IT resources we have the limited departmental resources that we have that really know this application
in detail.
11:10:38 And also the direction that Tyler is moving to a SAS software as a service. Model that I truly believe that the county could benefit greatly by having this hosted.
11:10:53 Takes the servers, bumps them up to the cloud, the care and feeding of those servers, the care and feeding of the applications, the upgrades.
11:11:00 All of that stuff goes away. That will significantly reduce the burden that's on the IT staff that we don't have or that we're losing.
11:11:09 2 out of 3. Tyler, Tyler customers are hosted right now. And they've kind of indicated that's the way they want to go.
11:11:17 So I don't know. Didn't give us a date when they weren't gonna support onsite but you know, they want recurring revenue.
11:11:24 What are the arguments against it? I mean, I'm totally afraid. And look, it, it, there's so many of those challenges.
11:11:30 Yes, yes. Yep. Scott and I've been digging into that. We had a call last week and we need a few more calls.
11:11:35 There they obviously have to limit how you access that application and how you access that data. So right now we can dig right into our data.
11:11:44 With SQL queries, and they won't allow that. They don't want that kind of traffic and that kind of data going back and forth.
11:11:50 So in order to access the data they want you to use their API, which truthfully I think is a good thing.
11:11:57 I would rather not have these, you know, rogue penetrations into the database. I'd rather have it go through a standardized module.
11:12:04 So access to the database is a little bit limited. The laser fish. Well, that's that's another piece here.
11:12:16 Yeah. So, they don't support laser fish anymore. They stopped last year. And they have a product called Tyler Content Manager, which we already own and we've already been paying
for.
11:12:28 And so. You know, I'm looking at simplifying the environment, which means that we should use more standardized applications, reduce complexity.
11:12:41 Get it hosted. Let's offload some of the technical stuff that We can that it makes sense to do.
11:12:47 And so I do think that. Possibly Tyler content manager is where this data should go that would alleviate the issues that we have right now with a lack of technical knowledge
on laser fish and the storage concerns that we have with that.
11:13:04 What it takes to get there don't have a good handle on that yet. But. And then, you know, if we can simplify and standardize.
11:13:14 Then it's much easier for us to get some consultant help in here. First to bring consulting help in here right now, they would not know the applications.
11:13:23 That we have and the ways that we've penetrated the Intergov database to get data out.
11:13:31 Cause they're custom built. And so I think we really need to bring in some consulting help because we just don't have enough staff.
11:13:38 We we have Scott who's you know, got he's wearing a million hats. So by simplifying, by looking at potentially hosting this.
11:13:48 I think that would put us in a position where it's much easier to get help.
11:13:53 So, the laser fish and then, the last piece is to, solicit some solutions for this online RME and the III septic.
11:14:04 Those are both things I think we really need. But again, if we look at a potentially hosted environment and staying with standard APIs to get to the data and stuff.
11:14:15 You know, consult with Tyler or consult with some, Tyler, consultants. And we don't have to necessarily go with Tyler.
11:14:23 There are other consultants out there that there that know the product. But say, okay, now staying within this standardized simplified environment, how do we get online Army
and the III septic working for us?
11:14:36 Cause those are 2 components that we need. Cause I'm, it's hard for me to support.
11:14:40 Custom programming on something. That is just, you gotta look at how you're gonna support it in the future.
11:14:47 And I think it would be very tough. So that's next steps. Have you looked at other other examples?
11:14:56 Boulder or something? I'm sure they have. I mean, not the same as us, but I mean, how do other areas using EPL integrate those third party needs of. Yeah, we've lived a little
bit.
11:15:07 I mean. So Tyler does sell another module that could potentially help with the septic piece.
11:15:18 But yeah, it's on, it's on our, it's on my map in terms of things to discuss with Tyler.
11:15:25 We haven't. We haven't gotten to the right folks yet that can dig that deep. So I'm looking at they've given me some pricing and proposal for what they call an investment assessment.
11:15:39 And, until I can make sure that that's gonna hit all the marks, you know, I'm not gonna recommend it, but we're kind of going through that because I think it would be good to
have somebody come in and say, okay, let's see.
11:15:51 Where you've done things right and where we could do things better. That kind of thing. So how do we get to an actually adult?
11:16:03 Lifecycle stage, obviously simplifying the environment, offload the hosting. And the maintenance of VPL.
11:16:10 Document all processes so we can spin people up and when people leave we don't lose that.
11:16:16 Tribal knowledge. Complete the connectivity in the data exchange between third party applications. That's, you know, the, the, I mean, the DIY septic laser fish.
11:16:30 Online army. Finish configuring EPL behaviors and workflows and I will get to that attachment that document that I gave you guys in just a sec.
11:16:41 Cause that's really focusing on that. Ensure that EPL produces meaningful reports. Right now you'll notice on that sheet that I gave you almost all the reporting is red.
11:16:54 So we've got to get the reporting. Roll out the CSS portal, formalize training for the entire staff and new hires.
11:17:02 And build a training database and documentation. So those 2 kind of go together. So the document I, so I gave to you guys, I really wanted to draw some bull's eyes on targets
and really look at And please, this is not a critique of either department.
11:17:21 It's just the reality of where the functionality, where the use of the. Product is right now.
11:17:29 So I tried to basically on the horizontal side just give basic functionality of the tool. So intake, can somebody go online and say I want to Do a site development review.
11:17:44 You know, here's the information. So from intake all the way through down to the bottom and then across the top the verticals are really the permit types or the functional types
within the departments.
11:17:56 So this is just like a stop light reds not good and green is good. And so I've worked with very folks with in each department to kind of assess this.
11:18:06 And obviously you can see where the red is where we want to focus. So one of the interesting things with EPL is that reporting is kind of a nightmare.
11:18:18 It's just not easy to get good meaningful reports out of it. And so we need a crystal reports writer.
11:18:26 We don't have one. It's, it's afraid of what you mean by reports, what kind of reports?
11:18:34 Well, so a report can be a lot of things and I've categorized 3 different ones on there.
11:18:35 It could be just a letter so that we've given a notice of violation or something like that. So you know that would just be something that we want to spit out.
11:18:44 It may just have standard language on it. It may have a little section in it. That's preformed text, but so it can be a letter.
11:18:53 It could be a permit. It can be reports to say, how long did it take the average, you know, building permit from the time the person, you know, came in until we.
11:19:04 Completed inspection or how long does it take to do inspection so there's 10 timestamp so we can start to look at productivity.
11:19:12 I mean, I could see eventually being able to have some key performance indicators that we can actually tell the public, hey, you know, here's what we're striving for in terms
of how quickly we can turn stuff around.
11:19:25 We can't measure any of that right now, so don't want to, you know, make any promises until we can measure it.
11:19:31 So. So reports kind of run the gamut. In terms of, you know. Single page letter or statistics on how many permits were granted or how many of a certain type of permit or.
11:19:45 That kind of thing. Thank you.
11:19:48 So if we look at. I don't know which let's just pick environmental health. So.
11:19:54 Environmental health is done really well on their configurations. They've got a couple of folks that went through the initial training that are still here that have said, we're
gonna learn this thing and boy that they've gotten all the little behaviors and that kind of stuff going so you can see like they're green there but we have no intake so it's all kind
of manual or it might be a
11:20:16 form online that kind of collects stuff but it doesn't tie to intergov. Inspections so inspections for CD, so DCD are doing really well.
11:20:31 Those inspections are kind of a yes or no. For environmental health, it's not quite that simple.
11:20:38 It's not just a yes or no. And so We need help from Tyler or from, some outside consulting to figure out how do we.
11:20:46 How do we do inspections when there might be like babies or you know more than one you know black and white answers so we're not doing any inspections there.
11:20:55 We got the fees processing and collection going. For environmental health. That's in good shape.
11:21:02 They do have some reports and letters going out. And a couple of permits being printed. No performance metrics yet.
11:21:12 We don't have calendaring and calendaring is really important when you're going to do follow-up.
11:21:16 You want the tool to remind you. And they were using Outlook and then when you guys had the Outlook issue lost all that so now it's on a spread.
11:21:27 So we want to. Would that be part of the hub eventually? Calendar. Possibly should because it should I mean that's going to be the place where you look that you want those things
to remind you hey you know it's been 30 days we haven't had a reply back clock stops and timestamps so that's really for performance hub dashboards.
11:21:45 Mobility function not using that within environmental health right now. So what does the yellow mean the 2 is that just halfway there?
11:21:54 I mean, the 2, is that just halfway there? Yeah, it's kind of slipping along, right? Right. It seems to go.
11:22:08 It's not, and it's not that we're not
11:22:08 Yeah, so my goal is, you know, maybe in 6 months we do this again and you know, let's see.
11:22:16 And, and the other thing too is if we can get some additional resources in here. Obviously I can focus them on the red areas.
11:22:21 Mostly like, you know, reporting is going to be a big one and in intake because intake is a requirement for CSS portal.
11:22:30 Right. Not necessarily for phase one. But soon after. Can I just say for the public will put this up on the agenda after the fax?
11:22:41 They they can't see it. So, on the DCD one, basically you can see like, You know, the building, it feels really taking the bull by the horns on that one.
11:22:55 So. That's kind of reflected in the green. There. We need to get the other areas.
11:23:02 Up and running with that same.
11:23:05 Same volume.
11:23:10 Any questions? A 1 million. There is one slide after this if you want to just I don't know if this is a value but I just put this out here.
11:23:22 I didn't know how much detail you want to get in, but these are kind of some of the tasks for our phase one.
11:23:28 So we've got data to clean up. We've got inspections to clean up. Defined processes of how we're going to grant access to the system, assess the network traffic considerations.
11:23:42 Make sure that we can block certain data like we don't want code cases to be viewable. There's certain data that we want to make sure is not visible identify some early adopters,
put a test program together.
11:23:57 So. You know, that's just for the phase one. So just to give you an idea what.
11:24:03 What we've got to do before that. So.
11:24:07 And when you say we, you and Scott, basically. Anybody who comes in to help. I have no problem delegating.
11:24:19 In the agenda request commissioners, I, I think in the fiscal impact. Section I think I made a statement about additional resources.
11:24:27 Might be requests for additional resources might be forthcoming. Might be was kind of lame. I should have said will be.
11:24:37 Yeah. Do you know if it's been this difficult to implement this elsewhere? I mean, we are small jurisdiction.
11:24:46 I can't imagine that much more. Complex then larger jurisdictions. Well, it's a complex app.
11:24:53 There's no 2 ways about it. But I, because you're small, you know, doesn't.
11:24:58 Doesn't mean that it's simple. It's the same complexity. It's just we have staff.
11:25:07 It's the same complexities. It's just we have less staff. We're in draw line.
11:25:10 A decision early on, data conversion decision, I think added complexity. That was far beyond our ability. To handle and have that had we made a different decision upfront, we
might be in a better place.
11:25:28 Previous place I worked with the city Seattle had 10 IT staff dedicated to the permitting software and they have like 25 different integrations with that.
11:25:41 So it is a very complicated process to go through this. What we're also feeling is this is an unusual although for people who haven't done it a number of times, it's painful.
11:25:57 Yeah, it's painful the first time, but you know, I'm pretty used to these things.
11:26:03 Some names, Linda Atkins. Deborah Murdoch, Jody Adams and others.
11:26:08 Who were heavily invested in this implementation. Left for other jurisdictions retired or what have you. And then DCD lost with 13 people in the span of 9 months.
11:26:21 So, and then a COVID pandemic didn't help.
11:26:25 But I really appreciate the kind of the systems approach I think that is manifest in this in this presentation. I guess my one question going back to your evolution of, you
know, trying to get to the adult is how as we're planning this, do we plan the self-improvement that prevents us from getting to that, you know, doddering old, old system that doesn't
work anymore.
11:26:49 Is there, is there a plan that as we're doing this to make iterative improvements as we go through the years.
11:27:07 And then that as we're doing this to make iterative improvements as we go through the years.
11:27:16 And then that dictates when we make changes to the tool. So the change control process. So there are some structural procedural things that we will get integrated and that,
you know, will be followed here.
11:27:28 Because it's always gonna change but Very little in comparison to what we're looking at right now.
11:27:36 You know, there's going to be little tweaks. There's going to be you may have new governance that dictates something and now we've got to, you know, make that change in the
in the tool and you know those types of things Scott can do like I mean he's He won't have this mountain of work.
11:27:53 This backlog and that type of thing but you know right now he's a trainer he's the fire putter outer You know, he's the, you know, fixer, the tweaker. I mean, it's like everything.
He does, he does everything.
11:28:11 And so it's really hard to focus on. Forward momentum when we're just kind of tread and water putting fires out.
11:28:15 Hmm. I will say that I keep talking about people that have left, but the the folks that have remained behind.
11:28:24 I hats off to you for staying diligent and sticking with this process and. I think in the agenda request I talked about Sherry's impeccable credentials.
11:28:36 I think you're seeing why we hired her to do this and then stealing Scott from Seattle. Was a coup and so anyway thanks to both of you Good appreciation.
11:28:50 So I just have, I heard a number of mentions of Tyler and so if we If we move more of our solutions to Tyler solutions.
11:29:00 How is that a vulnerability? How is dependence on one? Per. Offerings.
11:29:10 Have you seen that be a I guess the question is have you seen that be a vulnerability in the past?
11:29:16 You know, if I didn't think Tyler was a stable company, that might be a risk.
11:29:25 The solution they're using is a stable company that might be a risk. The solution they're using is a stable company that might be a risk. The solution they're using is Amazon
web services.
11:29:28 So. Like that's a solid solution. The redundancy to back up the performance on that is does causes me no concern.
11:29:36 Tyler's growing like crazy and So I think companies stability would be the only thing that I would think.
11:29:44 Would be a concern and it's not a concern. Do you? Yeah, one concern I've always had when you pick a solution and you invest heavily in it, you're vulnerable to dramatic price
increases.
11:29:58 So that's about the only vulnerability I see.
11:30:01 Yeah. I see that as a more, solution. Then moving to a a company that has you know, a solid.
11:30:16 Platform, put the applications on. With a lot of personnel dedicated to the stability as well as being able to provide, other solutions.
11:30:29 If that's something you wanted to do and didn't have the capacity to do that.
11:30:36 So I think Sherry, you mentioned doing this again. So commissioners, what do you every 3 months or?
11:30:44 You know, what I don't, I don't wanna. Great work, but I got a lot of this.
11:30:50 I mean, I think you said it was a Mia Copen, a lot of this. I mean, you, I think you said it was a Mia Copeland this to me as a light at the end of the tunnel.
11:30:54 I think that's great. So I'm really. I feel like you tell us when it's time for us to have an update. Yeah.
11:30:59 We would love when the color scheme changes significantly. Yeah, I'd love to see. Yeah, a green chart would be worth celebrating for sure. Yeah.
11:31:11 Well, and there will be some decision points with further expenditure. Yeah. Well, and there'll be some decision points with further expenditure. Yeah. Well, and there'll be
some decision points with further expenditure too.
11:31:14 Yeah. Well, and there'll be some decision points with further expenditure too. So yeah, but it'll be some decision points with further expenditure too.
11:31:19 So yeah, yeah, yeah, but with rough timelines right now Scott and I kind of chatted and I think Talk with Mark too is we want to focus on the CSS portal.
11:31:25 Cause I think that's us the way we need. In the meantime, we're gonna try and get.
11:31:35 All the answers and costs and a plan for. Migrating to the cloud. That would happen after. The CSS portal.
11:31:46 We need to make sure that That's planned appropriately so we don't. Lose any functionality there, but just from a timeline, if I look at the next couple of things.
11:31:56 Yes, we want to get CSS portal out there and get some simplified. Website. And there's a lot of lot of questions we still need answer for this.
11:32:11 How we migrate and not lose functionality and get the data scraped off a laser fish.
11:32:17 Yes. Do the due diligence there. Before bringing the contract to you. Because migrating to the cloud will entail additional cost and we might want to entertain a change to the
technology fee that is charged when people apply for permits.
11:32:37 Because I think we have a $5 or so 5% for each permit and given that the cost profile of 5% for each permit and given that the cost profile of our solution is increasing we
might want to consider a change to that fee to help support it.
11:32:54 Is there any interaction with? Public records that this will challenge going under the cloud. That you should mention that because Jenni Matter did, raise that issue earlier
and Scott and I both said that we need to investigate her concerns.
11:33:09 To make sure that Tyler is compliant with state requirements. I'm sure they are, but we need to confirm that.
11:33:17 Just thinking, excuse me, thinking ahead a little bit. We were just headed down a pathway of exploring short-term rental regulation potentially and which very well could involve
a third party.
11:33:31 App or system too. So it's just a reminder to me that we need to be keeping in mind integration.
11:33:37 Potentially with this system so a new way of thinking before we take on new new services or lines of work to double check that.
11:33:48 Accountability. You've mentioned some wildland, some sort of requirements. That this might solve too.
11:33:58 Right, so in order to track some of this. Or the wilderness. As well as somebody.
11:34:05 Implementations that I'm expecting for the CWPP. This would be really good to in order to track those, you know, especially in geographic locations and things like that.
11:34:14 So.
11:34:16 Again, this is that much more, you know, there might even be funds available potentially there in the form of a grant or something from the fireside to do some of those hardening
projects and things like that and able to record them here.
11:34:30 So just as a potential, down the road, something to think about. So expansion or.
11:34:35 Reinforcement of what we already have there, you know, could be possible and there could be some.
11:34:39 Funding opportunities. Okay. Any, of our department directors wanna chime in, anything?
11:34:52 No, me too. I don't need to. We've been talking about your department for a long time.
11:35:01 I wanted to just make a brief aside that some of the reporting. Weaknesses we currently have that.
11:35:08 Sherry pointed out so well, link with some of the expectations from our county strategic plan in terms of moving the needle on understanding sort of the pathway that people
take in order to get their permits accomplished, etc.
11:35:22 And so. This is Not rocket science, but it's, you know, the coordination of making sure those.
11:35:28 Advancements get. Actualized and we're utilizing the system to its full advantage sync up with quite a number of other big sort of optics that we have on the county right now.
11:35:43 And so that's important. I don't want to lose that. It's in our brand new strategic plan.
11:35:47 Yeah, I think. Sherry's been a great investment. I know that she's really helped our team.
11:35:55 Feel. More streamlined and supported and the delegation of tasks has made a lot more sense and just helped.
11:36:04 With the history we have preceding now, it's been a very large burden to undertake especially with Mark is so aptly pointed out the number of folks who have done work and then
needed to move on.
11:36:19 So, you know, I feel very lucky that we were able to find some money through public health to support at least half of Scott's time and Scott has been a major boon for us just
our entire staff and his particular expertise and his working with Sherry and then also supporting our side especially.
11:36:38 So I don't know. I don't know what that future looks like in terms of
11:36:43 You all getting a sense of his bandwidth is cut really thin because he's holding a lot of hats and he's doing a really good job but I think you sure you've pointed out.
11:36:53 How that is a huge menu of things for him to sort of be tasked with. So in terms of supporting him to be able to do more of that more of the time.
11:37:04 I mean, we future conversations for sure. As far as public health is concerned. Josh? Oh, I'll just say I disagree to me.
11:37:15 It is like rocket science. That foreign to me actually, but I'm not the tech commissioner.
11:37:23 Hi, Josh Peters, community development director. You still some of my thunder there. Because I was gonna say something about computer science, so.
11:37:32 I was just gonna say with the caveat that Certainly not men is the critique of anything that happened.
11:37:38 This isn't You know there'd be no utility in Monday morning quarterbacking this thing except for to learn from from decisions that we made in the past.
11:37:46 But I guess I would say that.
11:37:50 It seems like. The way it was set up the effort was sort of outlined and set forth. It did require a lot of staff to.
11:38:01 Move from just being computer proficient like these days to be a land use planner you need to learn how to operate computers and all the software that goes with it and then
you certain people develop certain specialties in that but at least the bare bones of it.
11:38:16 It's a necessity back in the day it wasn't, right? Because what are people usually study?
11:38:19 Well, the actual policy matters or actually how to look at a site and make decisions around the development of that site.
11:38:25 These are just different things, different skills. And so I think we collectively asked our staff to develop expertise essentially as computer programmers, which is a whole
nother thing.
11:38:37 That's why we have people like Scott or Sherry and her knowledge about how these things all work together.
11:38:41 And so. Now we're trying to strike the balance and we want our team to to understand how the tool works and to use it.
11:38:47 As best as possible, but at some point and we of course the only person in whose job description we actually have something about Enter, EPL and learning it is Aaron and you
know everybody else has sort of just been asked to do that and I think they've done fairly well considering that.
11:39:02 You know, especially with the turnover, at least in my department, it's been a challenge.
11:39:06 I guess I would say that when you look at the chart for DCD. And you see a lot of red on the land use side.
11:39:13 The development review side, that's because essentially just to be clear, right now or with our previous tool, which I'm sure took many years to develop.
11:39:22 These things that we refer to as reports. It's a little confusing. It was confusing to me too, but you think of it as 2 different kinds.
11:39:29 Like there's reporting out like extracting data and summarizing it from the system in order to build to talk about those benchmarks that Apple mentioned that are connected to
our comprehensive plan and our strategic plan.
11:39:39 And also we have some requirements coming our way through Senate Bill 52 90. That have to do with permit timelines and yes, although that the actual reality of that makes me
nervous but then even just figuring out how we're doing measuring ourselves with respect to those timelines makes me even more nervous because that seems to be more of a technical issue
that we have to solve.
11:40:01 Never mind the actual issue of getting the firmments out the door, right? So I guess I would say that the thing that's still makes me nervous about this tool.
11:40:09 Is that we're not able to press a button and produce a permit. On the building permit side we are which is our bread and butter and and Phil having been involved early on in
that conversation and with the work flow development leading all the way to the final product is at least we've got that going which is fantastic and absolutely wonderful.
11:40:25 On the land you side. For a variety of reasons. We don't have We have not done the reports, meaning really the templates or the forms.
11:40:34 That. That are necessary to communicate with that system and then be able to spit something out that looks like a permit and so we haven't done that but it's all we're completely
manual at this point.
11:40:46 Now Tracking, we intake and we upload information to integrate. We track it through the process and that means that our communications with other departments, you know, essentially
should be a lot better and it's it's computerized if you will and the dashboard functions and all of that.
11:41:00 But we still do a lot of manual work and then we upload the results. Onto the system and then that's how the, that's how we document the permit decisions in an ideal world,
not only would be able to press a button and spit that permit out, not only would be able to press a button and spit that permit out, but we'd be able to press a button and spit that
permit out, but we'd be able to turn the clock on
11:41:16 and spit that permit out, but we'd be able to turn the clock on and off depending on in whose ball the court lies, if you will. But we'd be able to turn the clock on and off
depending on in whose ball the court lies, if you will.
11:41:22 In other words, who's court the ball lies, I should say. Meaning that.
11:41:33 You know, when we and take a permit, we have a certain amount of days to make a decision about whether the application is even complete in the first place and then we have a
certain amount of days to make a permit decision unless we hit the ball back on the other side of the court and somebody else has to provide additional information that's necessary
to make that decision.
11:41:48 So all of those things. We're not, we're having to figure out how to do.
11:41:54 Interim measures it's almost like we in that regard we've taken a step back And now we're, you know, try, but I think though the good news is that once we are able to leap forward
and all the bells and whistles are turned on.
11:42:05 It's, it's going to be great. You know, it's just, it's just a lot of work to get there and we've been asked to stretch our boundaries while we're We're struggling to keep up
with work and so as you know, we're working through that permit backlog still.
11:42:19 So. I guess that would be my 2 sense about that. There are possibly some funds available through the state, Department of Commerce.
11:42:25 To help us with digitizing our permit process. But I think there's a deal that we need to sign and that in regard to implementation of Senate Bill, 5,290.
11:42:36 And when I went to go look at, okay, what is what money is available? What do we have to do?
11:42:40 They're not even ready with that yet. So. It's not just us that's behind.
11:42:43 It's also state government implementing that law, which often happens, right? With the legislature, all these things are laid out and then the state agencies have to scramble
to get that to in place and then we find out later what we're supposed to do.
11:42:53 And meanwhile, it's already like effective. So, so we have a little bit of that struggle I think in the permitting environment but.
11:43:00 But we're getting there. Thanks, Josh. That reminds me of just how important it is to keep in mind allocating funding for training and you know potentially a selection of contractors
too that we have that you know, potentially a selection of contractors too, that we have that, you know, training capability so that we're really getting staff up to supporting them
in the the big transition they have to make too.
11:43:26 Interface programs. Yeah.
11:43:30 Right, anything else? Pinky, anything you want to add? Nope. You sure?
11:43:37 I'm glad that Sherry's here. It's been, you know, it's made everything so much smoother and to be able to track and have a.
11:43:45 You know, and an IT perspective. So close. It's been really, I think, beneficial to the whole project.
11:43:53 Great. Alright, well, more to come. Thanks so much for your time. I'm giving, am I whole, as I'm in my eighth year in this job and we've been talking about this the whole time
I've been here.
11:44:06 Okay. Alright, do we wanna try and tackle anything before the lunch hour? We have pretty busy afternoon.
11:44:26 We have pretty busy afternoon. Boundering and yeah. I don't know. We're gonna leave in the room for a minute.
11:44:30 Okay. Briefing and calendaring. Let's recess for 6Â min till 1150. Thanks so much, Sherry.
11:44:40 How do you want?
11:51:55 Hmm.
11:52:02 All right, coming back from a quick recess and we're gonna do some briefing and calendaring.
11:52:09 How does anyone have a meeting or anything? We need to be aware of timewise. I have a call it.
11:52:15 Oh, at noon, but I can. Let her know I have to move it. Okay, should we chain wrap up by 1215?
11:52:23 Oh yeah, I gotta drive home so I love not being too late. Okay, well quickly brief and calendar or we could put one off till the afternoon but I know we have a pretty full afternoon.
11:52:37 I can go and be fairly quick. So you want me to do both or just look back first?
11:52:43 Let's look back first and then see how we do on timing. Sounds good. So with you guys on Tuesday Of course, last week, which means I missed the EDC finance meeting and then
I had.
11:52:57 Multiple conflicts in the afternoon, but I chose to go to the regular meeting of the PUD as Samantha Harper and Monty and Bob Winslow all presented the sewer plan kind of really
formally starting the conversation about.
11:53:15 Hey, you guys are still up for running the sewer after we build it. And I was, you know, very well received, very excited about the project, of course, an excellent presentation.
11:53:25 So yeah, no, no red flags were raised, I guess, would be my report.
11:53:31 Other. Been, you know, talking a lot, still a lot of recompete, working with.
11:53:37 With the port, had a couple meetings and with Amanda Christopherson and Cindy Brooks, couple of those.
11:53:44 With you guys for the board of health and i was not able to go to the masonry presentation because we had an oly cat meeting.
11:53:53 Some internal struggles HR struggles in only cap right now.
11:54:00 I don't know. I guess they're doing the point in time count just internally. So there's not they're not asking the public and they're still reaching out to other organizations,
but it's a little bit more insular than it has been in years past.
11:54:15 You know, the argument I've heard is that often they spend a lot of time training folks how to do it and then volunteers don't.
11:54:21 Participate. I don't know. I always enjoyed it and got a lot out of it, but.
11:54:28 I will not be doing that. I think it comes up the 20 fifth since this week. So Thursday we get a week to do it but that point in time camp.
11:54:36 Annual point in time can point in time count is this week. I went to my first Olympic consortium board meeting.
11:54:43 It was great. I hadn't really worked with, Commissioner Guido before, but she seems fantastic.
11:54:48 And Randy Johnson as well and really just learned a lot about the metrics of workforce development and kind of.
11:54:56 Yeah. I was just learning right now. Had another school to work meeting with kind of associated with the intellectual and developmental disability advisory board.
11:55:08 Anna McKinry has been doing great work. Getting that going. I think we have a kind of a paid for staff that will be a transition from school to work for folks with.
11:55:20 Intellectual or developmental disabilities, so kind of still put in the it's been like 3 or 4 meetings kind of framing that out with DVR and DSHS and some other organizations
and that's going.
11:55:33 Where will that position live? I live in public health.
11:55:40 And then we had our, you know, recompete meeting, weekly, recompete meeting and forms some, some committees that we were going to talk about forming them based like project
base, but we're doing more about like.
11:55:53 Barriers and data and and kind of larger silos than specific projects. Lots of new people. We have forks and Portangelists and we get a quick bound in person.
11:56:06 We're important. Portport Townsend was there along with Portuguese. So expanding that table and.
11:56:13 We have weekly meetings with EDA as well as with ourselves now. So that continues to be a.
11:56:20 Good work trying to find some. Consistency as to how we move forward on projects. With you guys of course for the joint BOCC Planning Commission meeting.
11:56:33 I love that tradition. I think it's really good to. Have that interface. I think they got a lot out of it too.
11:56:39 You guys were all there, but That was really great and also great to be there at the relaunch of that collab with you guys on Sunday in a ceremonial.
11:56:51 The representation so Yeah, it's a good week. After our meeting on Tuesday last week, we had a, good discussion with some folks working in forestry and the county and amanda
Christopherson organized this round table at the port of Scott Freeman and Mallory and other folks who are looking at how the forestry sector can contribute.
11:57:25 In Jefferson County can contribute to the recompete. Project Development. Work that you all are doing.
11:57:32 So, that was a really great conversation. I attended very briefly the first half hour of the Who cannot coordinating council annual meeting just start annual meeting portion
just to.
11:57:46 Be there as as a member and to meet David Dixon his new role and then I stepped away and Commissioner Dean and her Assignment to that committee.
11:57:55 Carry the water for our county. In the afternoon. Chinoco-powered Teams coalition meeting.
11:58:08 And then I had a community foundation.
11:58:13 Strategy session on Thursday morning and then I chatted with Commissioner Ozias about DNR forestry issues.
11:58:23 And then we met with Mallory, Weinheimer, our forestry consultant.
11:58:28 To talk about her future work, but the county. Mark and I, after my meeting with Commissioner Azias.
11:58:36 Then we had our Board of Health meeting in the afternoon. And then I also attended the Mason Street presentation at the Jefferson County Library and it was very exciting that
they rolled out their first rendering of the.
11:58:50 Mason Street project and it's just super exciting. I've been carrying one postcard around showing it to everybody.
11:58:58 And I mean, I Almost everybody I encounter and had luck who's tuned to county work is asking about the Mason Street project and so it's a really exciting Are people generally
supportive of that level of density, which is in big increase and density for that?
11:59:17 There's some concern about traffic and that came up at the meeting the need and then there will be a traffic study.
11:59:23 But, and those, the more and that kind of that area, that neighborhood, but I mean, people are supportive of.
11:59:31 Habitat and their proposal for sure.
11:59:35 And then Friday attended the cannabis education summit at Fort Warden. That was organized by our public health and
11:59:47 I feel like it was great to be in that room with that mix of people and I feel like I left with.
11:59:54 More questions than I arrived with, I think. So, I just look forward to continuing that conversation, but it was a really great.
12:00:04 Mix of folks in the room together. And the conversations that happened around our tables were really good. Felt like.
12:00:15 And then I stepped away from that. To let's see, what was this one?
12:00:21 Oh, counting coordination. I came back and. Did county coordination with the team here.
12:00:28 And briefly, I was briefly there and gave a bit of a strategic plan implementation. Update talking about the fact that Mark and I are looking at bringing on Barry Dunn to do
some of the implementation facilitation.
12:00:41 And also I. Pitched the idea to the team about. Folks. Owning objectives in the plan and as it was mentioned earlier today, there are many objectives in the plan that are just
very logically aligned with work our departments are doing.
12:00:58 So. Just assigning the. You know, the ownership of the reporting back on those and and building a mechanism so that there's common.
12:01:07 Reports coming back on the objectives. Or is work that Mark and I will do together towards that with very done.
12:01:14 But Barry, done, they give us a proposal for implementation and Mark and I felt like it was maybe a little big.
12:01:21 And so we're talking about how to scale that back. But one thing that they proposed was a dashboard implementation dashboard and we think that that could be really useful.
12:01:32 So. And then I ran the KPTC and was on KPTZ with, Steve Shiveley and Marsha Massey talking about the Olympic Peninsula Tourism Strategic Plan that we just completed.
12:01:46 And kind of just. The conversation around tourism and Coming out of COVID time and kind of the different kinds of tourism we've seen as a result of COVID and the the overlapping
of our natural areas.
12:02:01 So it was it was a great conversation and I feel like. Another solid KPDC show. So.
12:02:06 And then I of course was with you guys, for the BOCC and Planning Commission retreat, which I thought was great.
12:02:14 And yeah, I think. Especially as we move through this. Periodic update process. It'll be good.
12:02:20 To have, you know, regular meetings with the Planning Commission and Keep the conversation going.
12:02:28 Okay. Let's see, my week last week. With you all on Tuesday.
12:02:38 Wednesday. Did some planning work with the, climate action executive committee. So I think I told you will be coming forward.
12:02:48 Few things we need to think about our county goals for adaptation and mitigation. It's that time, Mark.
12:02:54 I don't know if you heard that warning, but we got to ask for a workshop and I.
12:02:59 Caroline, did we talk about the fifth? That's for climate sequestration. Different.
12:03:06 Slightly different. Our would be nice to get our start working on our goals before that workshop.
12:03:16 Okay. So I think we can do our goals separately, but then yeah, climate action committee wants to come and do a workshop with us on.
12:03:23 See questionation forest sequestration goals. Okay. That was several. Okay.
12:03:30 Do you mind emailing me that just so I can loop, the climate action committee in? Thank you.
12:03:40 I was that did you say February fifth or March fifth? Yeah, we can move that. Did nice for late February after.
12:03:49 The 20 third? I like not remembering, but I think I put in the email that timeframe I was hoping for.
12:03:59 It might be because the way Jane is going on vacation. That timeframe I was hoping for. It might be because the way Jane is going on vacation.
12:04:06 I knew you had a couple of meetings where beginning of I'll have to look at the email I sent to give the timeframe.
12:04:11 I haven't. So. Our goals. The forest and trees inventory or work group has come up with some sequestration goals for us to consider.
12:04:27 And oh, and a new. Emissions goal more aligned with current IPCC.
12:04:36 Projections. So Those 3 topics more to come, but we should start thinking about how we want to handle county, emission and, adaptation goals if that's something we wanna you
know identify a champion in each department who does that.
12:04:55 We've never had a formal process for it and so each time it feels a little ad hoc and Just like we could maybe be a little more organized and come up with better goals and better
tracking.
12:05:07 Yeah. So let's find a time to talk about that. Also, trees aren't the only thing of course that's the question.
12:05:15 Yes, it is what we have data on from the. software program that was used to do this forest and tree inventory.
12:05:23 Yeah, so, it's much. No, or, you know, building material types.
12:05:31 Sequester. And so yeah, they know that it's an imperfect sequestration, incomplete.
12:05:38 Sequestration scenario. I went to Olympia in the dumping snow on Wednesday and it was fine.
12:05:48 That was, it was. Roads were actually fined. So, but I was nervous. Didn't turn out to be a big deal.
12:05:55 I met with our lobbyists and She I think sounds like, you know, since we didn't really come up with a priority legislative agenda that she's interested in.
12:06:07 Creating kind of a hot sheet of, you know, the bills that are most important to us that she can help us track.
12:06:15 Yeah, yeah, so that's something we should give some thought to if there's certain bills you want her to track, let me know and I will add those to list.
12:06:25 I was thinking I just got an email today about the school based health clinic, a capital budget request. We could add that.
12:06:31 Have her. You know, be working that a little bit down there too. I'll ask public health before I do that.
12:06:39 I always know that I'm taking too long when my phone closes in between, topics.
12:06:46 Hooking up coordinating council meeting Wednesday afternoon. And like Hetty said, new executive director, his first meeting we were doing strategic planning, which is going
well, that organization has had some existential uncertainty and but I'm excited that, David Dix, the new director really seems to share my, my vision, which is really.
12:07:11 You know, get some successes. The coordinating council is unique. It's, you know, we don't set out another entity that is a council of governments with tribes.
12:07:20 You know about to deal list the first salmon species ever been done in this country like there's some some successes there and so I think he's the right person and hopefully
with some of those successes and raising the profile, be able to get more secure funding sources to continue that work.
12:07:38 Definitely in the, timeframe where I'm often in 2 meetings at once having a legislative hearing going on waiting to testify and those are just taking forever.
12:07:51 So had that happen a few times last week. Including all Thursday evening, which is very frustrating, hours and hours listening to this hearing, not knowing when you don't know
when your bill is going to come up and you don't know when your name is going to get called.
12:08:04 I mean, it's just, I don't know how people tolerate it. I do a few a week and I want to pull my hair out.
12:08:11 Most of Thursday spent with Association of Counties, Legislative Steering Committee. Few things to report there.
12:08:19 Mossack is still in support of removal of the 1% cap for property tax. And there's a lot of controversy within the organization.
12:08:30 Even though they have had that position since that 1% cap was put in place in 2,007.
12:08:35 So I, testified in favor of a bill to remove that cap, representing. Wassac and it might it might actually move this year so that's removing that cap putting a cap at inflation.
12:08:55 Or growth rate neither to exceed 3%. You can ask a similar bill that the Chapman mentioned.
12:09:07 I was just really curious about this Homestead exemption. I, I missed, so I wasn't here.
12:09:15 And Haiti and I take teams at the county and I take teams at county coordination. We did discuss all of the exemption bills at WASACK.
12:09:24 Because they're like 7 or 8 exemption bills. And Wasack took a position to oppose all of them.
12:09:30 Simply because they affect our revenues across the board. Yeah, and that doesn't mean that, you know, county couldn't choose.
12:09:38 They're suggesting that all of those bills have language that either removes the county portion of the exemption of tech.
12:09:45 So just focused on the state. Yeah, so state vote on your own portion, not on ours. And allow counties to adopt that exemption if they want to.
12:09:53 So that's when we actually voted and landed on that, position. So I, I could get I could find that bill number if it would be helpful.
12:10:03 It's probably in our memo here. Just be curious tracking it as it goes through. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
12:10:11 And there's, I mean, it's tricky because some of the exemptions are you know, removing, sales tax for affordable housing projects.
12:10:18 Which we want to incentivize affordable housing projects. And that revenue is important to us. Same with.
12:10:25 Salmon enhancement recovery projects. Those are, you know, it's tough one.
12:10:32 But maybe having the tool in our toolbox. So we could use it when we want to create incentives.
12:10:41 Would be helpful. But not across the board. Be interesting to know how much revenue those actually. We generate.
12:10:51 Yeah. You know what we're actually talking about. Yeah, and something I was a little uncomfortable with is I didn't see any safeguards in any of those bills for how everything
just says you know if somebody has a copy of a certificate from a nonprofit they can go by especially the affordable housing one is furnishings decorations like you could buy anything
with this certificate and not pay sales tax and just think how would
12:11:19 you, exactly. And it seemed a little, We put some guardrails in. No, protection from abuse.
12:11:25 It makes me think. I digress, I will not even go there. Things did get spicy talking about a bill which.
12:11:37 Transitions. Small gas powered engines to electrical right now generators and chain sales are exempt trying to get it emergency, you know, needs for emergency when might not
be power and for rural communities.
12:11:54 And so we'll be taking that up next week at WASAC and a lot of people really don't like that idea.
12:12:02 So, right. Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting people are arguing the equity side both ways that you know there's a lot of businesses are arguing the equity side both ways that
you know there's a lot of businesses or small governments that the equity side both ways that you know there's a lot of businesses or small governments that can't afford to make that
transition all the it's many year runway to get
12:12:19 there. And then other people saying, well, the people who are using that kind of equipment day in day out are usually people who are economically distressed and they're having
their absorbing the health impacts most of the exposure to largely, you know, 3 stroke engines and things that are the dirtiest burning.
12:12:39 And they're in very close proximity to. So a lot of passionate opinions on all sides of that too, of course.
12:12:49 Went to the habitat open house while in a hearing. So distracted. But great.
12:12:58 Great to see the initial draft of the master plan and, glad it's being well received.
12:13:06 I, you know, there's a pretty big apartment building, which I was. I was a little surprised, but they seem to have been thoughtful about how to separate.
12:13:14 Maintain open space and trails and. Leaving a big green, green space, there.
12:13:24 Attended the cannabis summit Friday morning for the first hour and a half or so. My takeaway was just that.
12:13:33 Think the assumptions that we make about marijuana are based on the potency of marijuana when Those of us sitting in policymaking seats were experimenting as teens and that
it's a very different product now and that We need to better understand impacts to developing brains with super high potency.
12:13:54 So in the methods of delivery too. Then went into a meeting the Pugets and Regional Council brought together all of the Ferry communities.
12:14:08 For a meeting and Washington State Fairies were there but it was it was great to just commiserate with electives from all over the region, interesting the only jurisdictions
not represented were King County and Seattle.
12:14:22 Which apparently, and some people are saying, is that why we have a hard time getting fairies funded?
12:14:28 Apparently they, Seattle and Ken County never engage in those conversations and that's where so many legislators are who vote on the budget.
12:14:34 So that was helpful to identify that. Very seem to. I don't know.
12:14:43 I feel like they have generally been sympathetic and making efforts to meet extraordinary challenges. And been willing to address those and admit to those challenges.
12:14:56 You know, we are still the lowest priority run. Will not get a second boat back for years and years.
12:15:00 If ever. And I've been surprised our business community hasn't been more vocal about that, but they seem to have adapted to that new reality.
12:15:10 But, since like Peter send regional council, we'll keep convening these quarterly or couple times a year and it was it was valuable.
12:15:17 To be there. We did get, in running through the counties and introductions, Jefferson County was left off and had that say, excuse me.
12:15:33 Join the coordination meeting late because I was the only person from, well Ben Thomas to join the fairy community meeting a little later, but I didn't like being the only Jefferson
person, so I stayed there a little longer.
12:15:45 Had a number of interesting conversations about shellfish all weekend, which is great. Enjoyed the planning commission, BOCC, joint retreat.
12:15:58 Could talk land use all day long and Yeah, hopefully it's helpful to have commissioners interested in that topic.
12:16:06 Then enjoyed the collab relaunch also both of you so That was my week. Okay, it's after 1215.
12:16:15 So we do calendaring after lunch? We, we can, I can wait for, yeah, I don't have a lot to report really for, last week.
12:16:27 Of course, Monday was holiday Tuesday with the board, seventeenth.
12:16:33 Head lunch with David Timmons and we had a interesting conversation. About the Aquatic Center and about the MPD effort that was mounted a number of years ago and He has ideas
about and creating a facilities district that I'm intrigued by and I asked him to share that work and he will.
12:16:54 And Kate, I'll be talking to you about that before the next steering committee meeting because we might want to put a proposal out.
12:17:01 The Dippers from. What we've been talking about thus far. Then a couple of meetings with staff.
12:17:09 And then on. Thursday. Really good meeting with Mallory and I think we did get a updated statement of work and so I can bring a contract to the board on the fifth of February.
12:17:22 I met with Sarah to talk about her work plan briefing this afternoon. And then had the the meeting with IT staff to talk about staffing and recruitment and other issues that
they're facing currently and then Friday or yeah Friday I was off to have this done.
12:17:38 So quick report on last week. Great. We went on. Yeah, recess. Great.
12:17:47 Okay, we're gonna recess for lunch until 1 30. We will do calendaring later. Okay.
13:32:03 And yeah, so I'll wait until you guys continue.
13:32:10 Do you want me to go to his Zoom link now? Sure.
13:32:17 Do you have the thing there you got? You got it. They do. I'm there now.
13:32:25 Hi everyone, we are coming back into session from our lunch recess and we are going right into executive session with the County Administrator, Chief Civil Deputy Prosecuting
Attorney.
13:32:36 And the board regarding potential litigation, exemption is outlined in the Open Public Meetings Act, RCW, 42 dot 30 dot 110 parentheses one parentheses I we are going in for
30Â min from 1 30 until 2 p.
13:32:50 M. Okay. Section. And.
13:33:01 We may take potential. We may take action following, in which case we do, we will take public comment.
14:03:01 We do a test test testing testing.
14:03:10 I think I were operational. Alright, let's see. Greg, are you back with us?
14:03:25 Back into session. It'll just be good to get a sound check. Anybody online? Tell me if they're able to hear me.
14:03:36 Okay, and it's a close cap she is picking up all your words so Great. Alright, we are coming back from executive session and we are not taking any action.
14:03:53 Next up we have a workshop and the 2024 human resources work plan. So Sarah and Mark, I'm not sure who's.
14:04:01 Yeah. This bandage on I can't double click. Oh, are you supposed to be using your hand that much word?
14:04:18 Okay. And Greg, you hearing us all right?
14:04:22 He looks frozen.
14:04:33 There we go. He's there twice an hour. Like,
14:04:40 Alright, Hey, we ready? Yes. Good afternoon. Thank you for this opportunity to talk about.
14:04:48 Human resources for 2,024. This is the plan and overarching plan and, as other things arise during the year.
14:05:00 We will probably be working on other things as well. So.
14:05:07 Okay, we can click. Yes, county, county employees are here. To provide critical services to everyone in our community.
14:05:15 We do all the jobs that are listed here and more. And all of this is done. In alignment with federal, state, and local regulations.
14:05:25 As well as with Jefferson County's values and strategic priorities.
14:05:32 Okay.
14:05:37 Human Resources role is to support all our employees in their important work and to provide strategic leadership in recruitment, retention, compensation.
14:05:47 Organizational effectiveness, employee relations. Labour relations, Steve management, and employment law and compliance. Here's a list that is representative of what we do,
but it's not all inclusive.
14:06:02 HR leadership is essential for organizational integrity and persisting the county assisting the county and reaching strategic goals and priorities.
14:06:13 Okay.
14:06:19 I think he went. Yeah, that's where we are. So currently the county has approximately 339 employees.
14:06:28 2,023 we had 87 new hires and 71 separations. Ncking.
14:06:37 And separations are due to many things post pandemic. Changes in social ideas. Some people wanted more money.
14:06:50 But mostly, feedback that I received was that there's change in family life or desire to do something different.
14:07:00 In 2,023 we also. Negotiated 2 union contracts for the first time those were ratified by the bargaining unit members and adopted by the Board of County Commissioners.
14:07:17 We facilitated updating a travel policy, which included a team. Across departments as well as department leaders.
14:07:26 Which was really a great way to get everyone together and get everyone's input on the travel policy since it touches every department.
14:07:34 And we coordinated a mandatory training initiative toward the end of 2,023 which increased our completion of mandatory trainings by about 30%.
14:07:45 So these trainings are defensive driving, anti-harassment. Diversity. Network, security.
14:07:57 Laws regarding their records act and So, and these are involved for required for every employee and it's about depending on what the employees job is, it can be from anywhere
from 6 to 8Â h of training.
14:08:16 Okay.
14:08:21 So.
14:08:28 Also initiated in 2,023. Toward the end of 2,023 is our ongoing plan to increase mental health awareness in Jefferson County.
14:08:40 And this includes continuing to communicate mental health resources such as the employee assistance program. It's accessibility to staff.
14:08:49 Encouraging employees to reach out when in need. And normalizing conversations about mental health. Increased training will also be folded in.
14:09:00 Terrard strategic plan initiatives and training of supervisors and managers.
14:09:07 So here are other items on the work plan for 2,024. Our recruiting and training new a new human resource analyst too.
14:09:17 Initiating and completing collective bargaining for 5 contracts. Initiating and implementing a strategic plan. Completing updates to the personnel administration manual.
14:09:29 And conducting an exempt employee comparable pay analysis.
14:09:34 Okay. Human resources also has a really big role in the strategic plan. Initiatives that were developed over the last year.
14:09:45 And these are mainly centered or mostly centered on you know, providing training and salaries and other opportunities for our employees to feel.
14:10:02 Welcome here and to want to stay here. As I mentioned earlier, we are planning to develop a training program.
14:10:12 Focused on managers and supervisors. Are they as they are the front line in? Working with and speaking with our employees.
14:10:22 Other initiatives you see here are developing and implementing an employee recognition program. Enhancing employee engagement.
14:10:31 In prioritizing programs to identify needed staffing and provide critical essential or enhanced services.
14:10:41 And then. The last. Item is any questions.
14:10:54 When you said that the training had gone up by 30% was at the
14:11:02 That, that Aaron was waiting to remind us all that, you know, these are the trainings.
14:11:07 This is where you're adding. Yeah, it was really Yeah, when we did a specific engagement with employees one on one, it really increased the response.
14:11:22 Yes, I sad to say it was one of the folks that hadn't done any of the training in the previous couple of years.
14:11:29 And So over the course of, you know, once I was notified over the next 2 weeks, I completed, all of the required training and ID, I think you spent a couple days doing the same
thing.
14:11:39 So. Yeah, we just need to, I mean, that's a A risk reduction strategy.
14:11:47 You know, if we have a lawsuit involving one of those areas and it's clear that we hadn't trained our employees, that our risk goes up.
14:11:56 It's also opportunity to continue to develop our culture here and and ensure that all our people are on the same page, which is, you know, Let's be careful driving.
14:12:08 When we're out there on the roads. And I harassment is not something really important here.
14:12:17 We don't tolerate harassment. The importance of diversity in our workplace. The importance of ensuring that our our computers.
14:12:27 Safe from. Interference and I hear a lot from people you know kind of laughing about the network security trainings.
14:12:36 I don't know if y'all have taken them, but they're great because They help with home life too.
14:12:43 It doesn't just happen here.
14:12:48 Greg, any questions from you or comments?
14:12:52 No, no questions. Great presentation. It's great to see HR kind of, you know, stretching its wings and growing to really, I'd say, embrace the staff of the county.
14:13:02 So good work. Enjoyed it. I guess my one. Criticism is lots of pictures of the, staff, but I didn't see any pictures of our growing HR department there.
14:13:19 Yeah, but good stuff, Sam.
14:13:13 Yeah, we tend to be photo shy in our group. Okay. Thank you. You've not announced that you've filled the new position, but how is that going?
14:13:29 We're interviewing right now have a third interview this afternoon. So hope to have. A candidate by the end of the week.
14:13:39 And just as a reminder that serves all departments. And, yeah.
14:13:46 I'm wondering with some staff here, are you guys? Interested in weighing in on this topic.
14:13:56 You'd have to speak into the microphone. Good day you as well. Yeah, I'm just interested in You know that.
14:14:06 How the health and safety component of HR. And see that. Rise to the level that I thought maybe it would for 2024 based on.
14:14:22 You know, Chris is death and having a severe mental health. Issue. That I would hope that there would be a lot of.
14:14:32 Energy. Into establishing a formal program, policy, procedure, guidelines, something. To get the newest and most up-to-date resources.
14:14:45 To do. An assessment of what we could have done better and how this never happens again for other employees.
14:14:54 That's my area. Concern.
14:15:01 Sara, do you know how other organizations are handling it? It's such a sensitive issue because it's, you know, we largely think of it as.
14:15:10 Private and so much of mental health is like other health care very protected in the in the workplace and yet.
14:15:19 You know, we want a culture where it is safe to be struggling and to ask for help and have you kind of followed where the latest research is on how organizations are effectively
supporting people's mental health?
14:15:31 Yeah, what I've found in in my research or studies and and actually in the county we've approached it in a more quiet way because of the challenge of the situation we had at
the end of last year.
14:15:45 And what we did and what is. At the top of importance for other jurisdictions, private companies is to have conversations with employees.
14:15:58 To normalize conversations about mental health, which includes just saying, hey. If you're feeling stressed or anxious or you have issues at home.
14:16:10 Call your EAP. Another huge. Area where there can be impact is if supervisor or managers are vulnerable with their employees.
14:16:20 And say even if they come in every day and say hey this is how I'm feeling today. And if we can do that, then our employees can say, hey, this is how I'm feeling today.
14:16:33 So, these feelings are important because once we get it out there. We acknowledge them and respect them.
14:16:40 But we can then also get on to do our work. And if we can't do the work, then.
14:16:46 Have it be okay for someone to take the day off or just have PTO and just say I I need the day off today.
14:16:54 Those are really big things. Having a EAP program is a huge. Is also a huge ability for each or necessity now.
14:17:05 For employers. I actually, there was just a recent. Article that just came out, I believe I read it in the New York Times.
14:17:14 And it was the study, it was done in England. And the result of that study showed that increased mental health awareness didn't really change any of the outcomes.
14:17:25 In the businesses that they saw. What was really important was that on each side that the people. Reached out for help.
14:17:39 And it's that balance of providing. All the resources we have. And the normalization of it and just having to be OK.
14:17:52 Which is what we are working on.
14:17:55 And that right to privacy and the communication. With the employee about their needs.
14:18:07 I'm sorry. Oh, great. Thank you.
14:18:12 It will bring you over Apple.
14:18:19 I'd be curious too if you have any ideas Jenny and we have some time we have till 2 30 so hi.
14:18:28 Hey, long time no see. I'm just I'm sitting in here. Watching, I have one of these work plan shareings to do in February.
14:18:39 So thank you, Sarah, for, Your great presentation. I love how you always go first of all the departments so that's awesome.
14:18:45 Hmm.
14:18:47 I just wanna chime in about, Jenny's comment and just, workforce mental health in general and I can only speak from my personal experience here.
14:18:57 In leadership at public health and all of the sort of behavioral health type reach that we do in terms of.
14:19:05 The grants and the. The funding we provide and the connections and collaborations with our community partners around the well being of citizens, especially with mental and behavioral
health issues.
14:19:16 And obviously we're not exempt from that, our staff. And it's very close to home for lots of us.
14:19:23 Whether that's losing someone to suicide, which. We all have some proximity to in one way or another probably or drug use.
14:19:32 And then general mental health with regard to work life balance and living through the pandemic and all the stressors of the service.
14:19:42 Oriented work that we all do in the county is just a lot. I wanna just offer sort of the, the notion that I personally and along with my management team we are working on strategies
for workforce development within public health that I think can ripple in other ways and so I'm simply offering some ideas.
14:20:01 They're not even suggestions. They're just fit for thought. I was able to get a workforce development grant for our staff and I'm looking into and having discussions with our
local behavioral health entity about having them come and do a mental health first aid training to our staff.
14:20:18 And I know that there's, interest kind of across the board for many folks in that sort of training.
14:20:26 The male health first aid concept is sort of a trademark curriculum that has been offered in our in the peninsula at other times for full day workshops for the public and they
are think generally free.
14:20:38 I have some funding to pay for them to come and do a special version of it for our staffing a more convinced way not only to enliven and support the way that we mentally hold
the whole health of people with regard to our public health service work, but just how we engage the public and how they come to us with their variable needs, whether it spoke at the
courthouse.
14:21:05 I'm coming to get, you know, the license renewal or whether it's people coming into our clinic.
14:21:11 Meeting some tending and some care with where they're at relative to whatever appointment they're coming in for to see our clinicians.
14:21:20 So, I don't, I'm not, I'm gonna speak for Jenny, but I think she did bring it up and I was just feeling compelled to share that.
14:21:29 It's certainly not lost on me that mental health is.
14:21:34 Is very vulnerable even of our workforce and I think Sarah has ideas and certainly passion around being sure that our staff as as a whole.
14:21:45 Are supported and hopefully can feel safe in their work environments to. To talk with their supervisor or to maybe get some special accommodations if that's necessary if something
is happening.
14:21:58 I know those types of things come across my desk all the time. I would also just say that in terms of risk reduction for our whole you know, 300 plus staff.
14:22:10 And seeing that the number of separations in Sarah's first slide, it's high, but also our recruitment has been high too, which is good, but separations can happen for a number
of reasons.
14:22:23 As Sarah pointed out and probably in some cases they had to do with some folks who were really struggling with the balance of this stressful work and life and the stress of
the pandemic and financial concerns, etc.
14:22:36 I know from our COVID after action report here internally in public health where we had so much to do in the pandemic that there was a lot of industry around.
14:22:45 Indices around. Just staff feeling it difficult to feel supported with the the great body of work they were being sort of thrust at them constantly.
14:22:59 And had I been able to be even more nimble in the pandemic, it would have been nice to have some workforce development funds at my leisure.
14:23:07 Over and above what's basic in order to kind of you know, have extra access for therapeutic models for our staff during that time.
14:23:16 They might have resisted it at the moment because they felt like they had no space other than to just, you know.
14:23:21 Approach COVID head on and do nothing but that. So hindsight is 2020 but I do feel like It might be going out on a limb, but really prioritizing.
14:23:33 Access, whatever that means, whether it's cohesive, sort of staff training around mental health disorders and how to identify.
14:23:43 Indicators of suicidal ideations. I mean, this is in my wheelhouse. I'm a nurse and I have engaged in this with human beings often before I was doing this work.
14:23:52 So I understand what those indicators are, but that doesn't mean that I can expect that my colleagues also have that experience.
14:24:03 Or even if they are aware and have learned that they feel compelled. And empowered to really watch out for everybody in a way that is sometimes has to be super courageous because
it's not like in the it's not in the norm, it's not in the channel to speak out and say, I'm worried about this person.
14:24:19 This something has to happen that's different than happening now. And of course, there is definitely confidentiality and privacy.
14:24:27 But where we can cohesively like collectively learn about attending to one another's mental health in the workplace.
14:24:34 We're all served by that at every level.
14:24:41 Thank you, Apple. I really appreciate what you've said and would love to take you up on any kind of training.
14:24:49 That we could provide here for all of our staff and our min managers as managers as well. I think the more we talk about it and learn about it, the better it is for everyone.
14:25:03 In helping them to feel also safe in our environment. Here at work. I'm also I appreciate Jenny you coming and speaking up today and asking the question.
14:25:16 I'd like to sit down with you and maybe any folks in your department who'd like to talk about next step that you would like to go forward.
14:25:24 Are ways that I can assist in that or any ideas you might have, would be welcome.
14:25:30 From me Do you have any specific ideas? Jenny for types of.
14:25:37 I don't know, work or trainings that we could be. Considering. Well, I'm more on the
14:25:48 Of developing the plan. Like I really feel strongly that there should be a, you know, a detailed plan and something where you know, we could develop a policy.
14:26:00 And we could provide training based on that policy. We could look at other organizations and see what are the best.
14:26:06 Mental health practices. I mean, the number when I looked did the initial research review or literacy review through the WHO the number one factor was leadership in people's
how that affects your mental health and look at those factors.
14:26:22 You know, come up, make this. Not something that's just a training of sprinkle here in a sprinkle there, but something that that represents how enormous it is in all of our
lives, I think.
14:26:35 Altogether. I mean, I think it's you know I think there's a lot that can that you know some things are not if they're not addressed they're sort of encouraged.
14:26:47 Unless they're really called out like you know what is it perpetuated through inaction. So I guess Yeah, what I'm saying is that it would I would like to have like a formal
evaluation, some kind of formal evaluation or documentation.
14:27:06 About this is what makes this best practice. For this particular energy and this is what we're gonna take from that and this is the steps we're gonna measure that going forward.
14:27:18 And and something that's gonna maybe cost some money and some energy because It's worth it.
14:27:28 That's and I am very willing to participate and.
14:27:33 Support or whatever. I just don't, I just don't, want it to be sort of lost.
14:27:41 I just, I just don't, want it to be sort of lost.
14:27:43 Okay. I wonder if there's a opportunity for a subcommittee to come together and you know kind of think about.
14:27:53 How we might proceed. I don't know, sir, if you am trying to not put something more on Hr's plate exclusively.
14:28:02 I do feel like this is asking for some kind of committee that can work together. I will add it to the plan.
14:28:12 It will Of course, impact my, the plan for HR for this year and that's okay.
14:28:20 Because it's for a really important reason. So. I'll work with Mark and perhaps even you, if that's.
14:28:28 You know, maybe perhaps we can get a commissioner on. On a committee to do a review and determine what next steps we could take.
14:28:39 What do you think commissioners? I think it's good and I think one thing I was gonna say is I feel like a lot of it is about being seen and heard.
14:28:49 And. My last role in my last job, we made a real big effort to at department levels and then as a whole organization level institute some practices that where we were.
14:29:03 Checking in with each other frequently. Through huddles and I mean it's Sounds some of these things sound like silly tools or basic tools, but they really work because it's
about getting normalizing communication and seeing each other.
14:29:20 And hearing. So I, I think that doesn't have to be, it's not rocket science in a lot of ways, but.
14:29:27 It would be good to have a plan and have people buy in with the plan. And then implement the plan, which are all.
14:29:33 Big lifts, right? But still important work.
14:29:39 Craig, do you have any thoughts?
14:29:42 I think the the course outlined here sounds great. You know, it's a it's a way that we can improve.
14:29:48 I think Jenny is right that it is. There's definitely a leadership component. So, you know, the more training that we can bring.
14:29:54 Partner with public health. I think it sounds yeah happy to serve or you know have a commissioner serve on this subcommittee or committee that is to you know, figure out how
can we improve the system to support our staff.
14:30:09 It's absolutely work as well.
14:30:14 Oh
14:30:11 Apple would you or someone from? Public health have the capacity to help in a subcommittee.
14:30:22 Great.
14:30:20 I would, personally. And I certainly can once we have our sort of departmental training at least in this one instance and again Jenny said it.
14:30:32 Clearly it's like it has to be sprinkled throughout and again this is just my initial little dunk here with the funding that I have for that funding runs out.
14:30:44 I'd be happy to, you know.
14:30:47 Recruit sort of a survey of our staff in terms of what it meant for them and then where they feel it's heading for them, maybe as a template for what this other committee might
do.
14:31:01 On a grander scale for the county, whatever that may be. I mean, I'm happy to help lend insight, not only to a committee, but through my own.
14:31:08 Application of the intervention here.
14:31:11 Right. I'm aware that we have a number of guests from, DNR joining us for our 2 30.
14:31:18 So, I really appreciate Jenny and Renee bringing this issue forward. Really appreciate Sarah's great report.
14:31:24 Sir, if you're comfortable kind of convening and some discussions on this topic. Yeah, I'll lead the way on that and gather together a group and begin.
14:31:37 Thank you. Thanks everyone. Alright.
14:31:45 Okay, so we have a 2 30 discussion with Department of National Resources. So Carolyn, you bring in folks over.
14:31:53 Yeah, I'm seeing join from, from DNR. Sarah, are we expecting?
14:32:00 I'm looking at the Zoom. Okay. You see the other gas? I think that's it, but.
14:32:11 Okay right now.
14:32:21 Wayne or Sarah? Sarah Dwayne? Are we bringing over Bill Wells too as well?
14:32:29 Is he with you guys?
14:32:31 I'm not a hundred percent sure if he's in the room, it probably is a good idea to bring him over just in case you have questions about potential parcels.
14:32:39 Okay, I think that's it on the list. And so do you want me to tee this one up?
14:32:49 So we are, following up at a letter that we received last month. I think it was on the eighteenth of December from DNR.
14:32:56 Saying you win the lottery you get you get some acres in your county of this natural climate solution structurally complex forest allocation that DNR has been working to identify
acres in a number of counties.
14:33:10 And we were asked to provide concurrence. By the end of this month. So by next week, basically.
14:33:21 And I've had a lot of conversations about Not only the acres that have been suggested for Jefferson County, but as you can imagine, I've talked with a number of other counties.
14:33:31 So. I wanted to hear, I wanted for all of us to hear from DNR as to the, their recommendation for Jefferson County and then I have a couple of questions following that.
14:33:41 Presentation that I think Dwayne was going to do for us.
14:33:49 That's right.
14:33:46 Right? Was that right? Yeah. Okay.
14:33:49 Yes, that sounds good to me. And I don't know if you have the presentation, that we put together if you would like me to share my screen with the presentation.
14:34:03 I think. Do you have it, Carolyn? I think we have. We don't have a PowerPoint in our.
14:34:10 The packet. It'd be great if you could share your screen.
14:34:14 That's true Okay, I will do that. I'll just open it up.
14:34:18 I think you did send it to me, but.
14:34:22 Alright, I will do that.
14:34:30 Alright, so I'm hoping you're all seeing my screen and it has the Identification of 2,000 acres on it.
14:34:40 So yeah, and again for the record, commissioners, I'm Dwayne, I'm the assistant deputy supervisor for state uplands.
14:34:49 I'm sorry I'm not able to be there in person. I'm sorry I'm not able to be there in person.
14:34:53 They keep me. Fairly close to the legislative building. This time of the year. And so, what I do wanna do is this is a very, short, PowerPoint that has maps that you've seen
already.
14:35:06 But I just wanted to walk through the, couple of slides and then would be happy to answer questions.
14:35:12 So as you know, the legislature last session in a budget provider, proviso, provided 70 million dollars for the department to do 2 things.
14:35:24 First was identify up to 2,000 acres of carbon dense structurally complex forest throughout western Washington. That the department would be able to move into conservation status
or it says move out of trust status.
14:35:40 And after that work was done. We would have to buy land, to make sure that we keep the trust whole.
14:35:52 And so technically the first step is we have to buy land. And then we can move up to 2,000 acres out of trust status and then any remaining land would be dedicated to encumbered
lands counties and that includes what Kayakam, Schumannia, Pacific.
14:36:13 Plalum and Jefferson County. And so that 70 million dollars would go to buy land and then it would be used for those 2 different purposes.
14:36:23 In that proviso, we were also required to present to the Board of Natural Resources by the end of the calendar year.
14:36:30 The 2,000 acres that we were proposing to set aside. Along with that the counties where we do identify that land have to concur.
14:36:43 And that's regardless of whether that's county trust land that benefits the county and the junior taxing districts or.
14:36:49 Common school university trust any trust. And that was put into the proviso and recognition that there are counties that are very resource dependent and a lot of the economic
activity from the county comes from the management of forest land so Setting aside land.
14:37:08 You know, in a county that is really dependent on that wood supply is very impactful. So the legislature.
14:37:15 You know, provided that the county would be able to have that concurrence, regardless of trust. Normally, you know, a county can obviously, you know, comment and have discussions
with the department about management of any trust, but decisions on individual trust, you know, that aren't county trust.
14:37:35 This is that unique, situation in the proviso. And the letter that we sent did request that we get concurrence by the end of the year because We need to know which trusts and
where.
14:37:51 We want to buy land. And so it's easier when we know which trust we're buying that land for.
14:37:58 So getting that concurrence helps us with that. Next stage in the work. Should go back.
14:38:05 Yeah, as we said about doing that work on identifying the 2,000 acres. We worked with conservation organizations and we agreed on a definition of carbon dense and structurally
complex.
14:38:19 The department has existing definitions for different stages of maturation. So of maturity of forest stands and this is something that we've had, for, over almost 20 years.
14:38:36 As you know, we have an old growth policy where any old growth, as defined by this, guide and by our old growth policy is conserved wherever we find it.
14:38:49 If we're and when we're lying out of timber sale and our field staff identify old growth, it gets conserved.
14:38:56 And so some of the guides that we developed to help our staff identify old growth. Have those definitions of maturation one, maturation 2, etc.
14:39:07 And we have a field guide that staff use for that. And so we, we agreed that anything that was in that maturation one stage and greater, more complex, we would consider part
of that structurally complex.
14:39:22 Our staff scientists gave us some, working, definitions or ways to query in our in our GIS data carbon ds.
14:39:34 And so using both of those factors. Allowed us to do a remote search of our our land base to identify these areas.
14:39:46 One of the other things that, Commissioner Frans asked us to do. Was because we're spending 70 million dollars of climate commitment act funding we want to get the most co-benefits
possible.
14:39:59 And so she asked us to identify areas that were also adjacent to existing habitat. You know, in areas that would improve connectivity between habitat.
14:40:10 And then avoiding just those small isolated pockets across the land base because the intent is to move these out of trust status and into our natural areas program.
14:40:24 Having our natural areas program which is chronically underfunded. Now being responsible for, you know, 10 acres here and 5 acres there and 4 acres there.
14:40:34 Would also cause just operational challenges for that program. So try to identify areas that were. Nearby existing natural areas was also preferable.
14:40:48 So. Because these are going to be set aside in conservation in perpetuity, we also wanted to make sure these were durable.
14:40:59 If you look on this screen over on the far left hand side. Clearly not old growth. This is a second growth forest.
14:41:09 But that may be carbon dense. If you've got a lot of, standing timber and, you know, fairly.
14:41:21 That can be carbon dense, but it's not going to meet that structural complexity component On the other side, clearly old growth.
14:41:28 It's carbon dense and structurally complex, but it's already conserved under our policies.
14:41:33 So we're looking for that. In between that maturing stand, that maturation one. Up through that multi cohort.
14:41:45 Yep.
14:41:47 So. Methodology and this again remote screening. Dr.
14:41:54 Donado gave us some metrics to look at. One was. Having at least 60 metric tons of live carbon.
14:42:01 Per acre and then meeting some of these other criteria. Having at least 1.8 modeled canopy layers.
14:42:10 So getting multiple kind of canopy levels. A quadratic mean diameter of at least 17 inches of the largest 100 trees.
14:42:18 So that that weights more of the the trees in the larger. Size class. And then having at least 12 trees per acre that are 30 inches and larger.
14:42:30 So again, having larger trees scattered throughout and then generally larger trees throughout. And having multiple canopy layers.
14:42:41 And so in. Jefferson County. The areas around Dava Bay.
14:42:48 You're very familiar because you provided us a letter saying these are areas we think would be great. And they met those additional criteria that the commissioner and, and we
were looking for is that.
14:43:01 Adjacent to existing habitat. In or you know around You also know the first attempt we accidentally said within a natural area boundary.
14:43:13 And so there is that we're selected are those areas that met that criterion are adjacent to the dayaba Bay natural area.
14:43:23 Other areas that met the criteria were Mount Walker and Notch Pass. Very large federal ownership obviously right next door and then that connectivity to.
14:43:37 What will now be, more conservation. I. This is the Devil's Lake, right?
14:43:46 Yep.
14:43:45 I'm. Got some. Too many names floating around in my head right now, but so devils like here and then of course the day Bob area here.
14:43:56 And so this achieves or helps to achieve that connectivity. Aspect. And so you can see on here,
14:44:05 That would be 281 acres of state forest transfer on the other. 606 acres of state forest transfer and then 65 acres of common school.
14:44:19 And that gets to, part of that. Question of acquiring land. We, as you know, acquired, 47, a little over 47 million dollars.
14:44:34 Down in Wakaya. Hopefully the majority of that will go to the federal trusts that we're identifying to set aside across these counties in Western Washington.
14:44:47 We did reserve 20 million to look to acquire land. Within each of those counties that would correspond to county.
14:44:57 Hopefully.
14:44:59 With the with these, with these NCS acres, you mean? Awesome. Yeah, okay.
14:45:03 Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. And so again, this then just provides that, larger landscape picture, of the existing conservation that we have going on, as you know, around Deba.
14:45:19 That new addition of conservation. The conservation that'll be happening here because more of this will now become part of that devil's lake.
14:45:31 And so you get again that. Continuity of of habitat. Between those areas. A little bit of mural that here, a little bit of.
14:45:41 Field identified old growth up here.
14:45:45 So again, that next step is concurrence from the counties. And then finalizing acquiring land. We have to.
14:45:56 Appraise each of these areas and then each of these before they actually get transferred have to come to the board of natural resources.
14:46:03 For their approval. And so that's the next big block of work that we'll be doing is once we get concurrent from the counties.
14:46:12 Start doing that work on appraising the land appraising that timber value and then matching up where have we bought land?
14:46:20 Where do we still need to acquire land? And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions that you have.
14:46:28 I have a few, but in deference to my colleagues, Greg, do you have it? Greg or Kate, do you have any questions for Dwayne?
14:46:36 Yeah, a couple. Appreciate the presentation, the opportunity as well. I was really curious about the new land.
14:46:43 So I think you explained that really well. Dwayne. Appreciate that. And I'm sure you've explained this to us before to me before, but if you could reiterate for me with these,
replacement lands, you know, my one concern seeing these additional lands down there is that we've heard a lot from some of the junior taxing districts down there.
14:47:01 And what are the mechanisms that we or you can use to maintain those trusts? I mean, if there we buy privately on land now, can we?
14:47:11 I think there was some talk about being able to. I don't know, mix up the trust a little bit so it doesn't all hit in one fire district and one school district.
14:47:20 Can you dig into that for us a little bit?
14:47:22 Sure, and part of the reason that we. Acquired or you are held back 20 million of that the proviso bunnies to try and acquire land in the same area.
14:47:36 Eperson if you know may be difficult there may not be a lot of land in in that area that's available.
14:47:45 One of the mechanisms that we are looking at is something we actually used for the last day Bob Bay transfer a couple of months ago.
14:47:55 And that's where we actually acquired common school land. To make that one transfer whole and work out.
14:48:09 About that. And he said, yes, if you can use common school to help counties, he's all for that.
14:48:18 So, part of that work would then be. Trying to identify common school land within the same junior tax district.
14:48:24 And we'd be buying. In in essence from ourselves. And then we would be buying more replacement land for the common school.
14:48:33 We can do that anywhere in the state. I happen to have 9,115 acres down in Hayakam County that could go to that.
14:48:42 So. That may be. A way to. Help keep the junior taxing districts whole.
14:48:50 It all depends on how much land is there.
14:48:49 And if I could. Right, do you have any idea how much common school land is in that? Basic region down there.
14:48:58 I don't, I haven't done that look yet.
14:49:03 Okay, thanks.
14:49:04 Commissioner Eisenhower may know better.
14:49:07 Yeah.
14:49:07 Don't know the acres on common school land and the like quilting or Brennan fire districts.
14:49:14 Peter Bales is in the room and he says very low and quilt seen.
14:49:20 Kate, did you have any questions?
14:49:25 No questions. You know, I think the. Like Greg said, helpful to hear kind of how some of these parcels were designated.
14:49:36 You know, we have been generally, working from a strategy of, looking at doing conservation on parcels north of highway 104.
14:49:50 Yes, we had our own kind of local criteria and it just sounds like there's a parallel process that DNR was using for their selection criteria.
14:49:56 So I guess I'm just curious, is there still an opportunity to weigh in with those? Criteria.
14:50:02 But perhaps they wouldn't meet the criteria that DNR is needing to meet. For the purposes of this program.
14:50:11 And to build on what Kate just said, yeah, we were specifically working with the. And Trying to not identify parcels other than the debaub expansion south of 104 to not impact
those.
14:50:23 Junior taxing districts so it's a huge priority if We identify or you guys identify acres and quilting Brennan fire school districts that.
14:50:33 We are sure that we find replacement acreages for those junior taxing districts and to that.
14:50:40 And. I had a couple of questions. Other than re-emphasizing our, you know, we've been collaborating with D and our working with the region, working with.
14:50:50 Brian Turner, the streets district manager on parcels north of 104 and One question I had about this this proposal is I the connectivity or you know kind of the idea of connectivity
between Dabab Bay and, Mount Walker and Notch Pass.
14:51:15 Feels a little stretched to me. Just because there's major highways. I've in a past professional life worked on wildlife corridors in the cascades between the Alpine Lakes Wilderness
and South of I.
14:51:30 90 and that's how the whole Wildlife Bridges project got agenda around the. And there's, there's just, there's obstructions between.
14:51:41 Kelsey and and Debb and the national forest. So it feels like a little bit of a challenge connectivity area to me.
14:51:52 But is the idea there to expand the Devil's Lake Natural Area Preserve to include Mount Walker and Notch Pass?
14:52:01 I don't think the plan is to officially create larger boundaries. And that is, that is a separate process that this proviso, you know, wouldn't allow.
14:52:14 Although the proviso allows us to move. Into that natural resource conservation area. Status without going through the public process.
14:52:25 Creating. Larger boundaries. Really is a public process and needs to go through that full, process.
14:52:33 That the concept of connectivity, it's not going to be for all species, but it does provide that older for a structure right along, you know, in that more contiguous.
14:52:46 Hmm.
14:52:46 You know, pattern. So again, you know, there will be, there will be problems with, you know, you know, amphibians, there will be problems with, you know, other species, you
know, crossing a boundary like a.
14:53:01 You know, a highway, but then others, you know, they're going to be able to cross it, you know, without a problem.
14:53:07 So.
14:53:07 Right. So in thinking about, other areas we've identified. Working with the this with the region.
14:53:20 We were looking at like Anderson Lake State Park and the Tamonois Rock Preserve.
14:53:26 And there's some parcels south of. Anderson Lake Road right there. That are in one of our 4 trust land transfer applications that will submitted as part of that initial round
under the new program, Dwayne.
14:53:40 That I was wondering why why you guys didn't look at those potential, because they are part of a block of larger habitat.
14:53:48 I think it's 900 acres total. It would be between those 3 parcels, but it's just.
14:53:53 That's that's another potential area to look but Here's the. Here's the big, The big idea.
14:54:02 So I've been paying attention to what's going on in Callum County. And I know that the.
14:54:10 Folks over there, the commissioners and some of the citizens. Have been working on a proposal for NCS inclusion of some acreage around Lake Sutherland.
14:54:22 And there's pretty universal support for that that idea but that didn't get proposed as part of Dnr's Acreage for Clam County.
14:54:34 Potentially we could use some of these acres like the notch pass acres or That's pass and Mount Walker.
14:54:42 If he needed that many, but. To protect those like Sutherland acres in Kalam County.
14:54:47 Because I know I spoke with Commissioner Ozias the other day and he was feeling disappointed that the 2 units of the power plant sale became the solution in Kalam County while
they're supportive of that idea.
14:55:02 They were really doing a lot of work on those Lake Sutherland acres. I was wondering if you had any Thoughts about that, Dwayne.
14:55:07 Oh, I haven't, talked with, Commissioner Fran about the idea of.
14:55:13 Right, donating anchors right from one county to another. I will say, you know, we know that there were counties that had requested and didn't receive anything.
14:55:26 Other counties that had proposed individual timber sales to set aside. And you know our intent is to, you know, be more specific on conservation.
14:55:39 But I haven't talked with the commissioner about that that idea of you know can we refine right we don't want a wholesale say well none of those how about all of these as I've
noted to our board We can't move on to the next stage of work until we get.
14:55:58 Right, right.
14:55:57 The area is finalized, right? And so, you know, we the when we were working on the proviso.
14:56:17 Want to know, I want to have finality because we have to continue our work, you know, managing the trust.
14:56:23 So we came to that agreement. Yeah, we we all want to get finalization. So, recognizing that you know you have that.
14:56:33 You know, idea or that, you know, that. Desire to maybe, you know, work with Cleveland County.
14:56:40 I can try and have that discussion with the commissioner. If you're able to.
14:56:47 Potentially provide Again, a letter of conference that
14:56:52 Not to put any words in your mouth, but if you were able to provide a concurrence letter that said, you know, we can.
14:57:02 And if, or something like that, that may be helpful. But I can, I can try and have those discussions with the commissioner, you know, and see if she's.
14:57:14 Amenable to.
14:57:18 Do a little refining. We'll call it back.
14:57:20 Yeah, I will. Well, I mean, we're, you know, we're all in community up here.
14:57:24 We're working with some of the same ecologists in Jefferson County who are working in Kalam County and have worked actually done quite a bit of work on.
14:57:31 Those like Sutherland acres. So, you know, in terms of structurally complex forests, it just feels like that area.
14:57:38 Really fits the the perp or the intent of the proviso more than and specifically notch past to us.
14:57:47 Cause some folks went out on the ground after that, you know, these were identified and said, well, those aren't really, you know.
14:57:54 There are there are segments of older forest within. Those units at Notch Pass, but they're largely not.
14:58:02 Older structurally complex forests. So. Just feeling like, well, what can we do? What's the win-win solution here?
14:58:09 And, you know, we consider ourselves close colleagues with our, you know, neighboring county and we're out here on this peninsula that's practically an island most of the time.
14:58:18 Anyway, so, you know, it was just a conversation that we were having with, or I was having with Mark Ozias who's been the lead commissioner over there working on these issues
and.
14:58:30 And he had already talked with his, you know, seat mates and about the idea of Lake Sutherland.
14:58:36 So I felt like there was that was almost a fully baked cake there and And, you know, so it's just, it's just an idea.
14:58:44 I think we're happy to write a letter concurrence that, you know, says we're supportive of the proposal but would like like exploration of this idea.
14:58:56 And you know, I think it could be a win-win. Or the peninsula.
14:59:01 Right. Yeah. And so. I would definitely recommend it if if you do that identify the parcels right the Whichever, Mount Walker, Nash Pass, etc.
14:59:12 So that
14:59:13 In, you know, in 20 years. You know, our future selves will be a little look and say, oh, that's why they want that to.
14:59:21 Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
14:59:24 As one more clarifying question, Dwayne, I think you already answered and I didn't quite process it, but can replacement lands be bought from private landowners?
14:59:32 Yes, yes. And that is the intent is, we would primarily be looking to acquire land from private landowners.
14:59:39 We, I should note because of the change in statute last session. In. The House bill, 1460.
14:59:50 We are able to acquire land anywhere. For the benefit of those junior taxing districts either through you know, we could buy land in West Jefferson County.
15:00:03 That the county just has to determine how. Or if, to get the funding to go back to that same junior taxing district.
15:00:16 There's also the
15:00:17 Exactly.
15:00:14 That was that was part of the TLT work group. And I remember having conversations with Treasurer Prida, you know, is the Could you do this?
15:00:24 Could we do this? You know, if So, and she said yes, you know, so I mean, it already kind of.
15:00:30 She already has to distribute money. Similarly in other instances, so. It was, one of the subcomponents of that trustland transfer work group solutions we came up around replacement
lands there were like 4 different ways to get at that and that was one of them.
15:00:47 Exactly. And then the other is the land pool concept where counties can collectively share in the revenue. Of land that we acquire.
15:00:59 And you know, it's we acquire land in Kalam County. And then it's determined that 40% of the revenue goes to column and and you know the rest to Jefferson.
15:01:11 You're sharing the revenue. In a in a land pool. It's it's kind of a unitary trust at that point.
15:01:20 Twain, could we also do that within Jefferson County? Pool our lands and have a distribution model that would so it wouldn't need to be specific to junior texting districts.
15:01:35 That's a Good question.
15:01:39 Hey, would still get the funding just on a more consistent basis.
15:01:44 Yeah, I do, I do think. For new lands that are acquired that may. Be possible.
15:01:54 It wouldn't, I don't think it would be possible. To just take the the existing trust lands and convert them into a unitary trust.
15:02:06 This, the statute that tells us how to distribute the revenue. Is clear. It actually we just distributed it to the county and then the county must distribute it in the same
manner as the general tax.
15:02:22 I think is what the statute says. So, that concept of creating a unitary trust for all of the the counties combined has been discussed.
15:02:33 Most counties are not in favor of that. And then that concept. That would have to be a statutory change to.
15:02:43 Within your county create a unitary trust, I think.
15:02:48 Thank you. Any other? Anything to add, Bill?
15:03:00 Yep.
15:02:56 Yeah, hopefully I can be hurt. Yeah, so I wanted to. First off, introduce myself briefly on Bill Wells.
15:03:06 I'm actually the new Olympic region manager started December first just a couple of months ago last year.
15:03:14 And so, first off, thank you for inviting us to the talk at this meeting and thank you for all the work that.
15:03:22 That you've done on working with DNR to identify. These appropriate lands. I also did quite a bit of work on the 2,000 acre project.
15:03:32 During my step last year and division working with. Dwayne and his staff. And you know, the commissioner was quite clear throughout the, and one of the goals was to Now look
for kind of the largest thing for the for the buck right and find areas that have large amount of structurally complex.
15:03:56 That we're adjacent to. Existing deferred habitat. And so, That's that concept is what led us to the Nash Pass and Walker Mountain and there was communication with recent staff
at the time.
15:04:12 As well so this wasn't you know, just out of the blue to them. So they were aware and signed off on these as being good areas for long term conservation.
15:04:24 I'm glad because we did our, we did our, you know. Scouts honor that we wouldn't look south of one of 4.
15:04:32 So I was like.
15:04:32 Yeah, no, and Drew Rosenbaum had mentioned that to me. Plenty of times and he's the one I was interacting with.
15:04:40 Directly on on those acres and and Brian Turner as well. And so. And I can assure you that we did look at those other, and these just were the areas that we had more of the
structurally complex.
15:04:59 The proximity to in our Ca was a big part of that as well. Just.
15:05:04 Bigger blocks of contiguous. Habitat. So but then I don't really have anything else to share.
15:05:14 I think Doing's presentation was great, but I I wanna show you that in our Olympic region in particular, still committed.
15:05:21 To work with you, all these issues, regardless of. Of your decision on the 2,000 acre project and we look forward to.
15:05:28 Continuing this discussion.
15:05:31 Thank you. We appreciate you being here. And very much appreciate being included in this. Program.
15:05:40 Yeah, I mean.
15:05:41 So much, yeah, sorry. That's great.
15:05:42 Almost, I mean, I think we're almost half the acres. It feels a little like, mmm.
15:05:47 Yeah. Since we have a little bit of time, would, would you be all right with seeing if and any of the public wants to weigh in on? Yeah, sure.
15:05:58 This because are we are we considering taking action on a letter of concurrence today.
15:06:03 Yeah, cause I should.
15:06:01 It was sure it wasn't listed, but I think we should. So we should take all the company.
15:06:11 But we might want to talk about maybe what we want to do and then take public comment just so they can respond to us and not just DNR.
15:06:11 Yeah, and hopefully, a motion on the table as well.
15:06:15 Yeah.
15:06:17 Go ahead. Did you have something, Greg?
15:06:20 Well, I'll kick it off. I mean, I'm, you know, the fact that we can kind of restore the trust from everywhere addresses my biggest need.
15:06:26 I mean, I I hike around notch pass in Mount Walker. Those are both really special places.
15:06:30 So. I believe in the analysis that the DNR has done. So. I wouldn't mind.
15:06:38 You know, sharing the wealth and, you know, giving concurrence with you know, if there's a possibility to, support the, masks about like South One, that I'm happy to do that,
you know, I, you know, I think we, do that, you know, you know, I think we, do feel like we've got an abundance of riches in this.
15:06:56 in this protection. So. I'm I'm ready to to move forward on it and also ready to try to share the wealth.
15:07:02 I'm happy to draft a letter that, you know, talk that talks about concurrence and also suggests that we're very open to the idea of sharing the notch pass acres with Kalam County
if A proposal could be developed for Lake Sutherland.
15:07:19 Which I know is what they're specifically interested in. Sure thing. I believe the cell is called.
15:07:27 Short thing. Okay, so I guess we maybe aren't taking action because, but maybe just coming to agreement on a draft.
15:07:39 Letter for Heidi to bring to us for action at a later date. But although we won't be here next week.
15:07:46 And that's next week is. January thirtieth is next week. January 30 first. Oh my goodness.
15:07:54 That next week is our fifth day.
15:07:53 Yeah. Yeah, so we should probably authorize the chair to sign that letter, really.
15:07:59 Yeah, sorry, gosh, I should have announced that this morning. It's knock up on us.
15:08:06 Alright, so, I think we're, I think we're generally in agreement.
15:08:10 Anyone feel prepared to make a motion?
15:08:13 I would differ.
15:08:13 I'm happy. I'm happy to make a motion to authorize ID to draft a letter myself to drop a letter.
15:08:21 Of concurrence to DNR for the set aside of the Deba Bay acreage proposed by DNR 671 acres I believe.
15:08:31 The 2 parcels at Mount Walker and the 2 parcels at Notch Pass. With a paragraph.
15:08:38 Referring to Dn's giving DNR our concurrence. With their negotiation with Clown County to use those notch pass acres for.
15:08:48 Protection around Lake Sutherland and Cleveland County, which the commissioners over there have been working on.
15:08:55 Second.
15:08:54 Right. Alright. Okay, let's open this up. For public comment.
15:09:03 Anyone in the room or on Zoom would like to weigh in on this? We'll start in the room here.
15:09:11 We have Peter Bales. I would like to weigh in on this. We'll start in the room here.
15:09:14 We have Peter Bale's, grab on that Right there.
15:09:18 Okay. You'll have up to 3Â min, Peter. You know that. Okay. A couple of things.
15:09:27 Commissioner Public Lands came to Jefferson County. I think it was November. And publicly announced that not only the 671 acres.
15:09:36 But also. That she was in favor of expanding the Day Bob Bay natural area. As requested by the Jefferson County Commissioners last year.
15:09:46 That would be, that's about, you know, 3,000 acre expansion, the boundary that includes that.
15:09:54 That's 671 acres plus additional older forest plus ravines in other areas. And, I just like to get a better idea when that's gonna happen and what's what's the story because
just protecting those patches of forest dabod really doesn't.
15:10:13 Do the job, long term for long-term management. The other thing is, with Walker Mountain and Notch Pass.
15:10:24 I'm a little nervous about supporting that. Notch pass giveaway to clam unless we actually get out there and look at it.
15:10:32 I think Catherine might have been up there. We've seen some maps of it, but it'd be great to somehow slog through the snow or whatever the ground ground truth those areas to
find out how what they really look like, they're both close to federal lands too.
15:10:48 So for a service and there's a lot of ESA listed species up there. So that is a really logical Excellent place to have a landscape scale conservation area.
15:10:57 Right, and right near Walker Mountain.
15:11:00 And. Also wanna make everybody aware that before we jump to look into other counties to buy our replacement lands that the Jefferson Land Trust and Northwest Watershed Institute
are starting to work with DNR to work closely.
15:11:17 Hopefully to our first priority and something the commissioners already identified last year is to buy land. In the same tasking district from Rainier.
15:11:26 And so we're kinda hoping that that will work and it's great that we have backup options for that, but that would still be the ideal.
15:11:34 Solution to buy a big chunk of land. To help for a working forest land forest board lands in the.
15:11:43 Taru area, where there's a lot of industrial rainyer land right now.
15:11:49 So that kind of is in process and who knows where it will go, but that's kind of where we're at with that.
15:11:52 Thanks. Thanks for all your work. Thanks, Peter.
15:11:59 Anyone? Well. Let's see if there are other comments and then, give folks a chance to reply.
15:12:10 Bring you over and Miss Ball.
15:12:16 Just to be moving away from gendered titles, but. That's tricky. First names?
15:12:26 I know in this case we know everyone but. Looks like Gene made it over first. So Gene, once you go first and then Mary Gene.
15:12:35 Hmm.
15:12:37 Yeah, yeah, sure can.
15:12:36 Can you hear me? Terrific. I would like to express immense gratitude for, you know, towards DNR and towards the commissioners for being willing to engage in this.
15:12:50 To understate it significantly the laborious process by which we reached this conclusion and the generous dispensation of the land allotment.
15:13:03 We have an embarrassment of riches. It is a wonderful thing to see and I'm very grateful for that.
15:13:11 I agree with Mr. Bales that it would be very nice to really ground truth. Not pass.
15:13:19 It was sort of an unexpected Suggestion and I do agree that it's not so important that Jefferson County hordes all the trees because really what we're going for here is protection
of structurally complex forests.
15:13:39 So if in that spirit we are able to trade perhaps notch past for sure thing. I think that's a win-win for everybody involved.
15:13:52 So I think that that really warrants a good look. I wish to again underline the importance of holding whole the tax beneficiaries this issue cannot be emphasized sufficiently
I don't think and again I know you all get it that's Not the point, but I just, you know, I want to make sure that everybody, holds that as a priority when we consider these issues.
15:14:18 I think, oh, day Bob, yeah, the day, Bob thing. I really like to see some progress on that.
15:14:24 You know, we've had what appears to be movement, but nothing concrete as yet, and that is, incredibly well supported expansion within the community.
15:14:37 You know, we enjoy pretty much unanimous support. I think the people who have, have submitted questions it has been.
15:14:45 Questions not opposition this is incredibly well supported so placing a certain amount of priority on that I think would serve us all well also.
15:14:57 Thank you very much for the whole thing. Thank you, DNR. Thank you, Commissioner Franz. And Heidi, we love you.
15:15:04 Thank you.
15:15:06 Thanks, Jean and Mary Jane Ryan.
15:15:09 Hi. I just wanted to say.
15:15:15 How appreciative I am. I want to say thanks to DNR for all the work they're doing on the selection.
15:15:24 Process of the 2,000 acres. It's this is a new process. And I think it is, it's worth.
15:15:32 Doing this little bit this period of refinement so that we get the best 2,000 acres that we can.
15:15:41 Dwayne has said many times. A wise statement, you know, that carbon and, you know, forest carbon does not know county boundaries.
15:15:54 And I think you know, where you have a more structurally complex forest. We all get are gonna get a stronger climate benefit.
15:16:06 Which is what this natural climate solutions funding is all about so i actually find this discussion like really inspiring.
15:16:16 Your willingness to collaborate with another county to listen to the people in Cleveland who've been working really hard to listen to their commissioners.
15:16:27 And to prioritize a an area that perhaps will have greater climate benefit. Just FYI, the center for responsible forestry did have someone go, into notch paths.
15:16:41 And, you know, maybe there's further investigation that needs to be done, but they felt that it was minimally.
15:16:49 Only minimally qualifying in terms of meeting the criteria versus Catherine's analysis of short thing, which was like, you know, really structurally complex.
15:17:00 So anyway, I wholeheartedly support your motion and I really thank you.
15:17:07 Thank you, Mary Jane. Anyone else online wish to provide public comments?
15:17:14 Alright. Anyone wish to respond?
15:17:22 I guess. I would just say I would have the same question that Peter had about D. Bob expansion, but I'm sure it's in the work.
15:17:29 I know. Dwayne is spinning like 4,000 plates right now, so I would love to hear his response to that question, but.
15:17:36 Oh, does that fall under Sarah's purview? The expansion of Dave. Yeah, well, I don't know.
15:17:46 I think it's all, I think it's all these guys. Anyone interested in, in there?
15:17:52 Sure, I can, commissioners. As I noted, the budget proviso itself doesn't allow for just that automatic expansion of the boundary.
15:18:03 There is, you know, here public process that has to go through with that. Excuse me, I know, Commissioner Frans did express that desire to you know, work on the expansion.
15:18:12 And so that will be our natural areas program. You know, that would start working on that. There's the public process, the public meetings that have to occur.
15:18:24 I'm not even sure of the entire process, although. Natural areas program falls under state uplands.
15:18:32 I haven't been involved directly in. All of the steps it takes to create or expand the boundary.
15:18:37 But I do know that that as Commissioner Eisenhower said, is in the works. I just don't know where it is in the process yet.
15:18:46 Thank you. Alright, anything else if I call the question? All those in favor of the motion on the table, please say aye.
15:18:56 Right.
15:18:56 Hi. Hi. Carries unanimously. Start drafting tomorrow morning first thing.
15:19:03 Great, so you can get out of town. Okay. Great. Well, thank you to our guests and we look forward to working together.
15:19:14 An ongoing fashion and as you heard there's a lot of enthusiasm for the work you're doing here in Jefferson County.
15:19:19 So thank you.
15:19:20 Thank you, Commissioners.
15:19:22 Appreciate you all, immensely.
15:19:24 Thank you.
15:19:25 Alright, bye now.
15:19:28 And the public that's worked so hard on this too.
15:19:30 Yes, yeah, absolutely.
15:19:34 Alright.
15:19:33 Could we take a recess? I got a little bit of an emergency here until the 3 30.
15:19:38 Oh, yes, will recess for 11Â min till 3 30. Good luck. Correct.
15:32:04 Ready when you are. Alright, we are coming back from a recess. So that last item on our agenda today, which is.
15:32:11 Continue deliberations on the shoreline master program. So, should hand it off to you Josh to kick us off.
15:32:20 Sure, thank you.
15:32:20 Recording in progress.
15:32:24 Thank you. Chair Dean. Did you want to do that over? Are we good on that? We're good.
15:32:30 To somebody out there, they're able to capture on. Got it. Alright, Josh Peters, community development director.
15:32:37 This is essentially a continuation of the shoreline master program or SNP consideration process. Last week we had a workshop.
15:32:44 With Lisa Greeder from Berke Consulting. Lisa is with us again today and we're joined as well by the sub consultant from Shannon and Wilson, Amy Somme.
15:32:54 And Lisa was there for the conversation. Amy was able to listen to the video, watch the video and hear what the discussion was and we talked about it as well.
15:33:08 Watch the video and hear what the discussion was and we talked about it as well. And so we'd have some slides.
15:33:09 The consultants have some slides. And we talked about it as well. And so we'd have some slides. And we talked about it as well. And so we'd have some slides.
15:33:11 The consultants have some slides they the issue. So this is a little bit different slideshow not so much how do we get here but more like based specifically on what was discussed
last week.
15:33:17 Here are some options to consider similar to the way that we guided the planning commission through their discussion. And of course we're open to any.
15:33:24 Other issues you want to talk about and hopefully either be able to answer the questions or get you the information soon.
15:33:30 And then in theory, if you're if you're comfortable deliberating and making some providing us some direction on some of these policy issues and no matter how complicated or
difficult those decisions are then we can continue work on actually producing the next iteration of a proposal, a line in line out, Charlene Master program amendment proposal that then
we would couple with.
15:33:51 An ordinance and adopting ordinance and then we'll put that on your calendar. Right now we were talking about February, the twelfth.
15:33:58 I just heard from Barbara that because of and unexpected work plan issue for her, a jury trial to which she was assigned that could complicate that a bit, but.
15:34:06 We're still shooting for that date. Okay.
15:34:13 So unless there's anything else from the board, and you could take it over, Lisa and Amy.
15:34:17 Guide us through what you've got.
15:34:18 Okay.
15:34:23 Hopefully you're seeing slides.
15:34:25 Yup.
15:34:27 Okay.
15:34:32 Good. The part where it advances is. Not cooperating, let's see.
15:34:44 Okay. There we go. This slide is showing 2 pie charts. The one on the left is showing the share of shoreline.
15:34:55 Area that's upland of the ordinary high water mark what the designation Splits are. And so from the upland point of view, most of your shoreline jurisdiction is in conservancy.
15:35:09 And then natural. Followed by shoreline residential and high intensity. So the bright. Green is conservancy the dark green is natural Then you can see yellow is Charlene residential
and then a sliver of high intensity in the red there.
15:35:27 And then on the water word of the ordinary high water mark, you have 2 aquatic designations, straight up aquatic.
15:35:37 Which is almost 60% of your designation and then priority aquatic about. 40%.
15:35:48 So as we talk about the permit types for different areas, it's just to give you a sense of extent.
15:35:56 As Josh mentioned, we have some options to share with you. I'll just describe them. We do have some other information as needed beyond this slide.
15:36:09 That goes into a little bit more detail about the priority aquatic and aquatic designations. And then we do have a little bit of information about Kitsap, Mason counties that
we've discussed before, it's sort of as backup.
15:36:26 Sure.
15:36:26 Lisa, can I just? Can you go back to that previous side just for okay, so that's aquatic and priority and then so it's all it's all either aquatic or priority aquatic and then
go forward to the next where you were.
15:36:40 Okay.
15:36:41 So a hundred percent is. Priority aquatic or aquatic. So. A 100%.
15:36:50 Immediately requires a standard CFP. I mean, that makes. So we're going, we can jump into the DETAIL and show the use table at any time you want.
15:37:00 Cause that's one of the slides or one of the things we could pull up. So just to this is complicated but just to reiterate so.
15:37:07 Sorry. And much of what we deal with in terms of shoreline permanent applications is actually upland. It's landward of the Orkney or Highwater Mark.
15:37:16 And for example, someone wants to build a house. It's certainly, it's landward of the ordinary high and so we, use the shoreline environment designation.
15:37:24 As part of the policies that we would consider. Some shadows both like a set of stairs to the beach.
15:37:30 Think of that. It's possible that it could straddle both. A dock could start out on a landlord of ordinary high and then obviously extend water word then of ordinary high and
so anything water word of ordinary height is in the aquatic designations.
15:37:44 That's the principal guiding thing. The way the planning commission recommendation is currently set up. Okay.
15:37:51 Okay. Both expanded. And conversion to GUI duck aquaculture would be conditional discretionary.
15:38:01 Except that in priority aquatic it would be standard conditional and if the abutting upland and designation were natural, then it would be standard as well.
15:38:13 And everything else would be discretionary, meaning it could either be standard or administrative once that judgment is made. So that's how it's set up right now.
15:38:20 And I guess there are some aquaculture operations that would be actually taking place landward of ordinary high, but those are rare view and in between.
15:38:28 Everything that's intertidal or floating aquaculture, that subtitle or, floating above the.
15:38:35 The substrate would be aquatic only. And then how does conservancy factor into that equation you just articulated?
15:38:41 Well, we we mentioned that because one of the things that was discussed last week, the possibility of changing some of that.
15:38:47 So instead of abutting just natural, there will be an influence of some other kind of upland shoreline environment designation.
15:38:53 And then and we're sort of pointing out that if for example if the if the idea were that anything a budding conservancy would be something that that would affect what sort of,
in other words, you'd have this standard approach, say, discretionary approach.
15:39:10 But if we're a budding conservancy, it would automatically be a C. Since 80% of the shoreline environment designation is conservancy.
15:39:19 It sounded to us like maybe we should rewrite that and think of it a different way. Everything should be.
15:39:23 Standard with some other exceptions rather than the other way around. That's what that's why we put produce that.
15:39:29 That makes sense. Yeah, it does make sense. I think I was getting there but I wanted to Understand the thinking that went into it.
15:39:38 Any other questions or? Cause then this, this slide here, which at least about, about to launch into.
15:39:44 Is similar to what we do with the planning commission the sense that we have these options and then there's a column here for how we want to go with it or maybe some hybrid
of any of these.
15:39:54 But I think. If you can ask any other questions this time or we could ask Lisa to start describing Lisa and Amy to start describing what these things mean.
15:40:02 Go for it.
15:40:05 Thank you. Josh. So the planning commission recommendation was a mix of standard and discretionary conditional use permits and I think Josh covered this quite a bit but just
Just to kind of walk through it the standard conditional use.
15:40:22 So with the hearing examiner would be required for any proposal in the priority aquatic designation. Or if it were a new operation, it would need a standard.
15:40:34 Conditional use permit. In the aquatic environment. Anything abutting the natural designation, whether it's priority aquatic or aquatic would have the standard COP.
15:40:46 Everything else would be a discretionary CUP.
15:40:52 Number option 2 is the same as the planning commission recommendation. But rather than give a discretionary COP. For most instances of expansions.
15:41:06 And you could say that. Expansions would be treated like new, which is. Typically.
15:41:16 A standard CUP.
15:41:20 So that's option 2. And then option 3 was our attempt to try to follow some of the discussion at your last meeting last week.
15:41:29 But we did sort of an A and a B. A is make a standard conditional use permit where aquatic or priority aquatic designations about shoreline residential conservancy or natural.
15:41:44 That would mean the the discretionary CUP would only be you in aquatic or priority aquatic about high intensity.
15:41:53 So that small red sliver.
15:41:54 The 1%.
15:41:55 Yes. Or be would be modified the conditional use to make a standard conditional use permit where aquatic or priority aquatic about shoreline residential or natural.
15:42:12 That would mean that conservancy. In high intensity. Would have a discretionary.
15:42:23 A fourth option. Sure.
15:42:24 One quick interruption on that, Lisa. Just the discretionary CP only for.
15:42:31 Conversion or expansion. So again, this then any new. Depending on how you define new, but any new that isn't expansion would be automatic C.
15:42:43 That's the way it's been and that's the way it's recommended. So okay, keep going.
15:42:47 The fourth option follows from the. Last Tuesday about, well, maybe there's some kind of criteria that could help.
15:42:57 Determine what is. A standard or a discretion, you know, to go from a discretionary CUP to a standard.
15:43:06 So. A 4 A is already required new. Operations need. Standard CUP.
15:43:21 And then conversion or expansion, would need a standard conditional use permit in priority aquatic and natural.
15:43:31 In any conversion that abuts natural or shoreline residential.
15:43:37 And then the third kind of criteria is based on. The extent of to which an expansion or conversion would.
15:43:45 You know, exceed 25% of the current area or and we put X percent. Or x acres there for discussion.
15:43:59 And Amy, I believe is, 25% is for any currently in the current SNP is for any our culture.
15:44:08 That's what a determination is for.
15:44:12 Yes.
15:44:12 Yeah, just to clarify that. And it's, it's. The current one and correct me if I'm wrong on this Amy but It's for, first of all, all aquaculture except goi duck.
15:44:21 And it has to do with those operations that at the time they received their federal permits and started operating did not require a shoreline permit per passed.
15:44:31 Jefferson County S and Ps. And so for those operations, when they want to expand. They're able to do so to a certain percentage.
15:44:40 And if they're gonna exceed that percentage, then they have to come in and get the permit. And so that's the trip.
15:44:45 That's what the trigger is there and we just chose that same percentage as a similar type of threshold.
15:44:49 In this case, it would be when does an expansion proposal automatically trigger a standard conditional use permit versus a discretionary conditional use permit, which again
could end up being a standard depending on the judgment of the code administrator.
15:45:05 And so we're in a sense we're equating. This expansion idea with this other legal non-conforming standard that we've set up for other types of aquaculture and also recognizing
that that 25% standard for other types of aquaculture does not exist for GUI.
15:45:21 Aquaculture now because any expansion of a GUI duck aquaculture then requires that operation to get a permit even if they don't.
15:45:28 Now have a permit.
15:45:33 Helpful. You're mostly tracking this. I'm still going back to the charts.
15:45:43 Sure, and we were happy to pull up that chart if that would be useful.
15:45:49 I've got it open here. It's just translating what you're saying. So that charts.
15:45:55 That's okay. Alright.
15:46:01 Do you have a used table for each of these options? I wouldn't say we have a use table yet for each of the options, but we have thought about.
15:46:11 What code language would look like. To go with the use table. I mean, I think we have a picture of it.
15:46:16 And our minds put it that way. And we've also started playing around with the language, but we haven't got to the point where we're proposing any language because There are
some mix of things to talk about here and.
15:46:27 We would take it from there. Essentially, but I don't know, Lisa, do you want to pull up that so everybody can see the use table?
15:46:37 Yeah.
15:46:35 And what it currently looks like that might help the conversation. And while she's doing that, I mean, basically for me, it's Maybe it'll be simpler.
15:46:43 I mean, we put these options up for you to think about, but I mean the main questions are.
15:46:47 To me. How do you wanna treat? Converseions and expansions. How do you want to treat those just from a policy perspective?
15:46:57 Conversions. According to the WAC, we're able to have some discretion at the local level.
15:47:01 We don't even have to have a conditional use permit. For example, and we're just talking about what kind of conditional use permit process.
15:47:08 Then with expansions, it's. Silent in the whack, so do you treat that all as new or do you treat sort of if there's a 20 acre operation and they want to expand 2 acres for example.
15:47:18 Is that considered new or not? I mean, so that's a policy choice. And those are the seemingly the main choices and then of course what process do you want to use for those 2
types for either expansion or conversion.
15:47:33 Do you want a discretionary? Do you want administrative? Do you want a standard CUP? That seems to be the main.
15:47:40 Conditional use permit process. Questions before you. Do you think that they're silent? The whack is silent on the expansion question.
15:47:49 Because expansion is essentially new acreage. It's essentially new. If you're going into new ground, right?
15:47:58 It's like a timber harvest. You know, and an adjacent timber harvest. You need a new new forest practices application because it's different trees for cutting down.
15:48:10 Except it's all visible and I mean in some ways you have a lot more information with an expansion or conversion of what kind of operation is being run.
15:48:21 You know, you know, are they keeping track of their gear? Are they practicing, following the BMPs?
15:48:25 Like, I think there's a lot to be said for just having more information. Existing or converted.
15:48:36 Practicing best B and Ps. You would want a standard conditional use permit process. Because then that's where that would come out, correct?
15:48:47 But the discretionary allows them the administrator too. Put it to the hearing examiner. The conditional use permit that comes out of the process.
15:48:56 Is the same thing, regardless of how you got there. And ultimately, we actually would be ecology's decision to accept the local government decision or to modify it or to deny
it.
15:49:07 That would be a college use choice at the end of any shoreline conditional use permitting process. I guess back to your question, Commissioner Eisenhower. I don't know without
looking at the entire record of the agency rulemaking process.
15:49:18 I don't know what they were thinking or not thinking about expansion. Maybe it never came out. Don't know.
15:49:22 But we do have conflicting apparently information about how Mason County does things. Something I could check on by talking to the planning director there, but we heard today
that They treat all, I mean, someone said that all that all the new is, excuse me, all the expansion is treated just like new and then we had someone else say, no, no, that's not actually
what happens.
15:49:40 They have an expansion policy. So, Hmm. In the discretionary CUP, is there a, comment period for neighbors are still notified correct right so so the discretionary is the choice
of whether to use a standard CAP.
15:50:00 Or the administrative COP. And for either one of those there is a public comment period. The difference would be one is tied with a public hearing before a third party.
15:50:11 That we've contracted to make these decisions. That's the hearing examiner. The other one does have a written public comment period.
15:50:18 Like other type 2 processes in our unified development code. And then so all those comments are accepted. They're also sent out to agencies and almost I don't know about all.
15:50:28 I don't know how to say that, but certainly most in my experience policies that have to do with in water work have stained Barmo Policy Act review associated with it.
15:50:37 So there's that component as well. It's sent to the college, part of their SEPA register and so forth.
15:50:42 So there is a comment period and we can. We can condition that proposal. Just as much as we can condition the other one is just that who's making the the final local government
decision, the actual final decision because it's shoreline management is ecology.
15:50:58 Okay. And if there is a hearing, it's with the hearing examiner. That's correct.
15:51:09 Lisa, were you? Wanting to to keep going or were you at a natural stopping point for this conversation?
15:51:17 The other slides we have are more as if it comes up we have. We have some description of the priority.
15:51:26 Aquatic and aquatic designation that are in the SMP. And then we had a side by side.
15:51:33 Rough comparison of, the COP process and a couple of the other counties that we've been.
15:51:39 Speaking about. We wanted to spend most of our time on the options and See where you want to go.
15:51:47 Sounds helpful to run through the rest of your slides and then. Come back to the options.
15:51:51 Does that work for you, Greg, Heidi? Yup, great.
15:52:01 So. Go on to the next.
15:52:08 So these are the side by side of the other counties. Amy, do you want to kind of just run through this briefly?
15:52:15 Sure. And basically the 3 other counties that we looked at, all of them require a CUP for new and 2 out of the 3 require it also for conversion.
15:52:29 I looked for, any kind of text about expansion. And I couldn't find it in any of the CAPs that we looked at so it's they're just kind of silent and I didn't hunt for like a
separate.
15:52:42 Mason County policy about that, although I did hear from Josh earlier today that there's kind of 2 different opinions about how Mason County does things.
15:52:51 In all of those counties. This CUP process requires a hearing. And for 2 of them, or actually one of them, Kidsap County also does have kind of another subtype.
15:53:05 I think that came up as well a little bit in the discussion last week. But it doesn't have anything to do with aquaculture.
15:53:11 It's specifically a sub type that's used for shoreline stabilization proposals. Otherwise everybody just kind of goes with the.
15:53:18 Traditional CUP with a hearing format.
15:53:25 Hmm.
15:53:27 In this slide, we're just, sharing, a little bit more about the, we had shared the priority aquatic description and the aquatic description last time we wanted to share the
criteria for priority aquatic in the center there.
15:53:42 Cause the question was, I think on the left hand side. And when it talks about vital for salmon and shellfish is that commercial or is that habitat oriented?
15:53:55 So the criteria in the center there are you would be a priority aquatic designation if you have documented Endangered Species Act listed.
15:54:05 Some wanted streams and marine habitats. Estuaries that support Endangered Species Act, listed salmon and rearing, other freshwater shorelines.
15:54:14 That provide a habitat for some monads, intact drift cell processes. Documented forge fish.
15:54:22 And our important inner title and subtitle shellfish areas.
15:54:28 Most of from Jefferson County. 42% apparently. Okay.
15:54:32 Yeah. And aquatic is everything that's not. Designated as priority aquatic so it doesn't have.
15:54:43 Other particular criteria.
15:54:52 Can you help me understand the role of at the presence of eel grass. Does that prohibits.
15:55:04 Aquaculture if is it a certain amount of ill grass is present that species of ill grass and hearing this is a big limiting factor in.
15:55:15 Great duck production.
15:55:19 Yeah, if I could ask perhaps Amy, you to look up specifically references to eagras in our code that would be helpful and meanwhile though I can speak to it from a former manager
of state on aquatic land.
15:55:33 I know that when we did leases for aquaculture. Now, DNR only has like a handful if even of pilot leases or intertitled GUI duck aquaculture.
15:55:46 It's actually pretty rare. According to their website, there's only 200 acres. Throughout the entirety of Puget Sound that's in intertidal gooey.
15:55:56 Aquaculture on private on private Thailand's I think as well because again on public tideland state on aquatic plants There's very limited Kui. Aquaculture.
15:56:06 And as I mentioned last time, most of GUI duck activity in Washington. And as I mentioned last time, most of GUI duck activity in Washington state is subtitle harvesting through
tracks.
15:56:12 That are sales, that are sold to interested parties or used by tribes through the graffiti decision. Which is a subset of the bolt decision which has to do with our treaty rights.
15:56:24 And those are all, when they're done by DNR, they're done by auction, actually.
15:56:29 Which really affects the DNR bottom line, as I mentioned. So most of that is harvesting.
15:56:34 Entert is relatively rare if you look at it from that standpoint, according to the information on the DNR.
15:56:40 Website. So when we did aquaculture in general and when DNR does leases for aquaculture there are stewardship measures.
15:56:51 That have to do with the native, S's Ostra Marina. And not the Zoster Japonica, which is even perceived sometimes as a noxious weed, actually.
15:57:03 And so we differentiate between the yoga grass is when trying to protect native meal grass. And absolutely there were buffers from ill grass.
15:57:12 And so sometimes there were leaseholds. That contained ill-grass within. But then the lease itself through those habitat stewardship measures.
15:57:27 Okay.
15:57:18 Would maintain buffers from the ill-grass meds and have only the commercial activity outside of those. Now, that sufficiently talk enough for that, give Lisa, at least I need
a chance to find out for that kid at least, at least I need a chance to find our code section.
15:57:32 What did you find?
15:57:33 It says specifically in your code that aquaculture use and development shall be cited so that shaving and other adverse impacts to existing red brown macroalg, kelp, and ill
grass beds are avoided.
15:57:47 So that's pretty clear.
15:57:50 Okay. Thank you.
15:57:55 So I think we have maybe one more slide on this. These are the, so under the state shoreline rules that the guided the preparation of the Charlene Master program.
15:58:09 It has an aquatic designation. It doesn't have multiple but jurisdictions are allowed to bury in some do have this split between aquatic and priority aquatic.
15:58:22 So these are the policies on which the master program had to respond to. So if you're designating aquatic.
15:58:33 You should have. Management policies that uses that adversely impact ecological function should not be allowed.
15:58:43 Except in those other circumstances and they should assure no net loss of ecological function and you'll find similar language in your SMP.
15:58:51 Shoreline uses and modifications should be designed and managed to prevent degradation of water quality.
15:58:58 And local governments should reserve shoreline space for shoreline preferred uses. So again, we come to. There needs to be ecological protection and no net loss.
15:59:09 But there also needs to be allowance for preferred uses. That would include water dependent type uses.
15:59:17 So. Within this designation or either. Designation, there has to be some. Some balancing of both of those.
15:59:28 And the, the application requirements, in the current draft of the SMP, specifically include a requirement that the applicant.
15:59:37 Submit measures to address impacts to achieve no net loss. And then there's a couple other kind of scattered references to no net loss speak.
15:59:46 A priority and something that needs to be achieved and demonstrated.
15:59:53 Yeah.
15:59:52 So I believe that's it because we're just back to the overall overarching schedule. So I'll stop sharing.
16:00:02 Here unless you would like me to go back to anything.
16:00:05 Maybe the options table.
16:00:07 Sure.
16:00:11 And these are, by the way, just options for you to consider. Where you end up could be some hybrid.
16:00:18 I think that's not even represented on that chart. So it's not meant to preclude other consideration just Hopefully getting to think about different ways you could go with this
based on what we've heard so far.
16:00:31 You know, so hard so we have 12 different categories to be talking about potentially and Thanks. Got to stand up. Oh, great. Go ahead, Greg.
16:00:43 Matrix might be.
16:00:43 Yeah, I just had a question for Josh. Today we heard about, comments from you know kind of both sides of the issue about Mason County and I'm wondering did you have other information?
16:00:57 Cause we heard from both the shellfish industry and from Miss Show Walter that. Expansions were treated as a new.
16:01:04 A new operation and I'm wondering was there something else that I missed or Can you go into that a little bit more?
16:01:14 I would say that I don't have the answer to the question. Right from the horse's mouth, if you will.
16:01:22 But I do have a relationship with the planning director there. I could I could ask the thing is I think that if I could just paraphrase what I heard this morning is that Miss
Shel Walter was citing the code and I think at least she was trying to differentiate between the conversion and the expansion policy by reaffirming that Mason County's SNP does not
require a conditioned news
16:01:47 permit. For conversions, which again is what the whack gives local governments the discretion to decide. Whereas Kitsap and Colin had decided that conversions would be condition
uses.
16:02:01 We've so far and all of the discussions have decided the same. That conversions would be conditioned uses.
16:02:07 It's just a matter of what kind of process to get there. So in Masons County, Mason County's case, they've decided that conversions will not require a shoreline conditional
use permit and they were they and then Michelle Walter cited a particular description of new or something like that.
16:02:22 I believe they were silent on expansion, but her interpretation, if I could paraphrase, would be that expansion was treated as new.
16:02:29 And I believe if I heard correctly, Mr. King from Taylor shellfish. Said that in effect they have a different permit process or policy around legal knock performing uses in
the expansion or perhaps just the expansion of our operations with which I'm not familiar.
16:02:44 Amy did, as she said, a review of the what the code says and couldn't come up with something specific around this issue.
16:02:51 If it's something that is important to us to find out, it can certainly try to find out from Mason County what they do.
16:02:56 I also think that back to back to your question, I think last time Commissioner Eisenhower.
16:03:00 It's in our court to decide what we want to do.
16:03:05 Right, I guess I just heard Mr. King say, expansion was treated as new in Mason County.
16:03:12 And that they were okay with that. I thought that's what he said. Do you, how did you interpret that?
16:03:19 Yeah, I remember this morning when he said that and he's
16:03:26 I don't remember the second part of his statement though. I guess if you said, cause you remember if new, according to the whack.
16:03:35 From, I don't know, 2011, 2012, whenever it changed, requires a conditioned use permit.
16:03:41 So I thought I heard something different. I thought he was countering that he was sort of. Yeah.
16:03:44 Thankful for the opportunity to to bring up a point that That they actually had an expansion policy that was something short of a conditions permit.
16:03:54 Again, though, I don't remember exactly what he said.
16:03:56 Gotcha. Yeah, language can be big.
16:04:01 Thanks.
16:04:00 Yeah. Hmm.
16:04:09 And that goes, sorry, but that does go to number 2. So that policy choice there. Which we did prevent present to the Planning Commission at their November fifteenth meeting
that they were making their final recommendations that.
16:04:23 That this question came up a lot. That the whack of silos on expansions. The proposal that had been put forward for the public hearing version said that expansions would have
a different policy essentially would be it would be treated just like conversions rather than treated just like new and that is a policy choice.
16:04:42 That I think that if you wanted to clarify this table, if you if you just even just tackled that first.
16:04:48 Like, how do you want to treat expansion? Are all, all expansions the same or would a relatively small expansion relative to the current operation be treated differently than
than a large expansion off of a small operation or a large expansion period and whether it's acres, percentage, any of those things.
16:05:05 And so that would just be a policy choice. And then once you make that choice, then the rest of it is perhaps a little easier because then it simplifies the rest of the choices
around them.
16:05:14 Process that you want. Hmm.
16:05:17 Thanks.
16:05:22 Is it deliveration time?
16:05:25 The deliberation time?
16:05:23 Oh. What's that? I think so, yeah. Yeah.
16:05:30 Do you want to close the public hearing?
16:05:34 Well, we might, and once we have another draft, we come to a final. Decision on this.
16:05:46 If we have another draft, do we open a new hearing versus. Yeah, and I did confirm with Barbara quickly on that today.
16:05:51 Our understanding was that we left the hearing. Open specifically because. Following direction from the board, we would prepare.
16:06:00 Another iteration that reflects that direction. And couple that with an ordinance and then make all of that information available to the public for comment.
16:06:09 And then we would set it up and enough in advance that people could have a comment however you want to take it whether you just wanted to be written or actually have a public
comment period on the day that you're electing to consider that ordinance.
16:06:22 And so I would recommend you don't close the public hearing for that reason.
16:06:25 Okay, and we might just have to wave our one testimony per hearing. Right. Yeah. Okay.
16:06:38 Okay. Greg, does that mean you're ready to deliberate?
16:06:44 Great. Go for it.
16:06:43 Sure, yes, I'm ready. I guess I'll lay my cards on the table though, you know, honestly.
16:06:52 None of these options or options I would. I don't know. Crawling a PVC tube to die on.
16:07:01 I think I still favor option one. Option 2 is palatable as well based on testimony I heard.
16:07:11 Rationale for me is We have basically 4 different stakeholder groups that have given strong feedback on this and, you know, with the plan commission recommendations, which I
take very seriously.
16:07:26 And looking at it through the lens of regulatory reform and as aquaculture is a, you know, a preferred use.
16:07:33 I don't. And then I, the tribal input that we've had supports this recommendation as well.
16:07:41 And you know neighborhood and I think they've spoken kind of with a voice as well. You know, want something Stronger, I think any hearing that we have is going to be a microcosm
of the process that we've had here.
16:07:57 As I've I've talked about, you know, I there's still Room for Feedback, but you know, having gone through the.
16:08:07 Producing processing of cannabis. It can Hearings can be a real
16:08:15 A real burden. So I guess I would always air on the side of regulatory reform. And the, you know, preferred use.
16:08:24 I know that there. They're unsightly. I can acknowledge I wouldn't want. A field of tubes next to me.
16:08:34 Yeah, that's why I am. I can go into more details, but that's, that's the short, the Cliff notes version of my, perception.
16:08:43 Alright, and I am happy to give mine. I also agree. That the Planning Commission saints bless their hearts right for all the work they've done and all the They've worked long
and hard on this and considered a lot of input.
16:09:02 I also support option one, but I I leaned strongly towards option 2 because I Here that expansion. It's new beach. It's new ground.
16:09:14 It's your opening new area And I was trying to look at a way to nuance that by asking about the whole threshold thing, but I anyway you cut it, it's a new area.
16:09:23 And so I like being clear. That expansions. Are treated like new GUI duck operations.
16:09:34 Because it is.
16:09:34 Can you respond to that real quick? I just, I guess. There's a lot of nuance there, right?
16:09:40 And all these, you know, little D or whatever, but. Just a matter of hypothetical, you know, Taylor is expanding there a GUI dock operation.
16:09:50 As Josh has said, you know, that could be really small, it could be really large, that could be eagraphs, there could be not.
16:09:56 Discretionary conditionally used permit doesn't rule out a hearing. It just doesn't make a hearing automatic.
16:10:06 And the, I mean, I guess conversions can be so many different things, but As I said, I'm okay with option 2.
16:10:11 I just feel like it's. Yeah, the first step in a slippery slop.
16:10:17 And I think there's not all conversions or the same.
16:10:23 Conversions are expansions.
16:10:25 I'm sorry, expansions is what I've meant to say the whole time. I know I said conversion throughout, but I'm at expansions.
16:10:29 Yeah.
16:10:31 Alright, just trying to make it a little more confusing. No, I,
16:10:33 Yeah. Would do either of you, we talked last time about the threshold, for example, the, 25%.
16:10:46 You know, is that of interest to consider assessing that before deciding if it's just.
16:10:58 So the wake up in the middle of the night that night for me was all night was. 25% of what?
16:11:00 25% of 4 acres is an acre, but what if that acre is the most, you know, it just felt like that felt like a slippery slope to me.
16:11:10 The threshold did. Because how do you do first how do you define the threshold? And then.
16:11:19 And then what if that 25% hypotheticalically is. 25% of the most important habitat for, you know, just felt.
16:11:29 Problematic to me. Even though it was.
16:11:31 And I would. Sorry, I didn't mean to step on you.
16:11:35 It was, I mean, the threshold idea, the word threshold did come out of my mouth first, I think.
16:11:40 And so I apologize, but I. I came out and then I spent the whole night that night. Thank they're thinking about it and
16:11:49 Yeah, doesn't feel. But so it's very defined. Doesn't it feels like a slippery slope to me.
16:11:58 I guess I'd say on these last days of the Chevron deference, landscape, I would love to.
16:12:05 Trust our staff to interpret with a discretionary CP, whether that threshold was, you know, for them to set the threshold based on a case by case basis.
16:12:18 To step to set the threshold. I mean, wouldn't that need to be in code?
16:12:22 Or to me.
16:12:22 Well, no, but that's essentially what you're doing with a discretionary, discretionary conditional use permit.
16:12:29 And correct me if I'm, and mischaracterizing it, Josh, but if you have the discretionary, then if it's, you know, 50% or, you know.
16:12:36 It is impactful in a myriad of ways that we couldn't possibly delineate in code.
16:12:44 We're just giving them the administrative discretion to say. Yeah, this is this is a big one.
16:12:49 You know, we should have a hearing. So I think that's I would say that's a better way to establish a reasonable threshold for any particular project than a, and a percentage
that we come up with in these chambers.
16:13:01 Hmm. See, I think the discretion is still there because if the acre that they're wanting to expand into is the most prime.
16:13:09 Habitat for endangered species, then they get to say, oh, that probably then should be a.
16:13:14 Standard so you can go to the hearing examiner. Like the discretion is still there. It just gives a.
16:13:21 Some certainty around scope.
16:13:24 Yeah, I hear you.
16:13:29 Again, I, you know, I. I wouldn't I would feel like there was still a balance struck if we treated expansions like new GUIDE operations.
16:13:45 And I'll repeat myself a little bit just in saying that I, I think that we actually have a lot more information.
16:13:51 You know, if what we're trying to manage for is folks who don't you know manage their their operation as well as we would hope right because i mean keep in mind this is the
Fifth permit that these folks will have gotten forth.
16:14:06 I mean, there's a number of permits that come before this one. This is the Last one.
16:14:12 And they have agreed to BNPs. Well before this point. You know, and we know the challenge is we don't have the ability to enforce very well.
16:14:23 And Army Corps and Ecology aren't out here. Doing that very often either. But you know, they have agreed to a bunch of BMPs and then Yeah, so we at least have the opportunity
to hear from neighbors.
16:14:39 And say, hey, are they, are they? Taking good care. Are they good neighbors? Are they good stewards?
16:14:45 With an expansion or a conversion, which is more information that we have on a new application.
16:14:56 From an entity that we've already. Been in business with for. Decades, right?
16:15:03 Yeah, it's true. I put my kinda where I could I would maybe want to land.
16:15:13 I put into it into a little matrix. Maybe I could pull that up and just talk about how I got to it came to those decisions and it's probably not new to.
16:15:23 Many of you, cause it's kind of what I talked about last week is really trying to get to impacts.
16:15:29 And practicability. So I'm also not. Terribly wed to these. Again, I think that that residential is where we are most likely to have challenges, just more eyes, more people
impacted the density of.
16:15:52 Of people around. So I could see keeping residential at Just a standard CUP. And expansion of conversion could be discretionary so long as the expansion of conversion is less
than 25% i would say of the because it's actually a permitted amount of land, correct?
16:16:16 The permit is for. Number of acres, correct?
16:16:23 Yes. But sometimes expansions. In the case of aquaculture in general.
16:16:32 Oftentimes that threshold is used to determine whether that operation should come under a permit, a shoreline permit or not, when it hasn't been required to in the past because
it's considered legal not conforming.
16:16:44 So So that's how we usually deal with the 25% threshold. This would be new in the sense that it's I think irrespective of.
16:16:53 Whether the current operation is or not, it's more like what is the current operation? What's the footprint?
16:17:00 So less than I would propose less than 25% that could be discretionary. If it were 25% or more would remain at the standard CUP.
16:17:12 If I may it occurs to me that in the list that we just gave you 4 options.
16:17:16 I think that we just collectively forgot or I forgot to think of. The other option of course, which is what some of the commenters were asking for, which is Just capital C throughout
the table here for GUI.
16:17:35 I forgot to say that and we didn't list that I think and like if I unless I'm just not picturing that table that we showed you.
16:17:38 But in other words, that was how the planning commission left it back in 2021. Which is why you've heard from people saying we like what the plant mission some people we like
what the planning commission did back in 2021 while of course the industry had a different opinion essentially.
16:17:55 So just to be fair, you could that would simplify the whole package by just going capital C. Yeah, one thing I'd like to bring up.
16:18:04 And I mentioned this to Josh offline. So if you have a hundred acre operation, 25% is another 25 acres.
16:18:15 If you have a 10 acre operation, 25% is 2 and a half. So. 25 versus 2 and a half so that a percentage threshold allows gigantic expansions in the case of a large farm.
16:18:32 That was one of my wake up in the middle of the night things. Yeah. And so, I think One of the diagrams or one of the options I think had 25% or an absolute acreage limit.
16:18:44 So I agree with that. I really think that you should contemplate. Having 2 thresholds. 25% but no more than 10 or something along those lines.
16:18:55 That's why we put X acres there. Be prejudicial about what you were thinking in terms of, but again, it's it is exactly like commissioner brother to describe that whole threshold
concept if I understood correctly from last Tuesday.
16:19:08 Was essentially meant to. Be guidelines for the code administrator in making that discretionary call. So it's not just.
16:19:17 Case by case, it would be case by case and also that. These things that would trigger automatically a C and essentially take that judgment call away.
16:19:27 That's how I interpreted. That's how we tried to write that option. List of points too that think it should be up to a limit.
16:19:36 Which would automatically then take it back to standard.
16:19:44 Not remembering offhand what I, exactly what else I changed here from the draft.
16:19:50 But I guess I just do wanna say I think the shellfish industry is really important here.
16:19:56 In this county, it is different than Kitsap and Kalam County. For different reasons, KIDSAP is more suburban.
16:20:06 Column has. More straight shoreline, very little kind of protected. Shelters growing areas than Jefferson County does.
16:20:17 It is our largest farm gate sale of any agricultural product in the county. I know that A lot of this GUI duck is not eaten, locally, but I do know having been a diversified
farmer that I grew crops that were not to be sold locally, but that made the operation sustainable.
16:20:35 We sold, we had acres of ginseng at Spin River that that was our wholesale crop that made everything else possible.
16:20:42 And so I think this is shall the shellfish growers are a big part of our economy and, is a piece of that that helps keep them sustainable.
16:20:55 I have been a number of times to the day Bob operation which employs a lot of people a lot of highly skilled people and I just think it's a great example of the kind of industry
we want to need here.
16:21:06 We do know there have been some players who haven't. Complied. With a changing regulatory framework, but We know that there are a lot of growers who do and there this is a highly
regulated industry.
16:21:22 And I would really like to build in more reference to existing Bmp's that. And I would really like to build in more reference to existing BMPs that, so that we have something
to be able to hold folks to, even though we know enforcement is extremely challenging.
16:21:34 But, You know, when I think of people like Ralph Fichio, you know, small shellfish grow.
16:21:39 It's the kind of industry I want to see flourish here and think that we are really uniquely capable of supporting.
16:21:47 So that's where I'm interested in. You know, providing. Protection where it's needed, you know.
16:21:53 Natural priority aquatic. I get it. But I want to.
16:22:01 Again, try to get at the impacts with. Stronger regulations there and then make it a little easier for growers in areas where that's less impactful.
16:22:12 Do we get an answer about whether the GUI DAX mentioned in priority aquatic the whack were commercial or wild or I mean they're explicitly listed as a preferred use and the
priority aquatic.
16:22:29 Lisa, I think you, and Lisa thought it was wild set. That was that was my first conjecture on that and so just to clarify it's not the whack because again priority aquatic is
something that we've chosen to put into our SMP.
16:22:46 The whack just talks about aquatic. But also gives local governments. Some some leeway to come up with other shoreline environment designations.
16:22:54 We've chosen to create priority aquatic. I think we've defined it. And if you think about if I think equipped Commissioner Eisenhower that isn't that all of Jackson County because
it sounded Like we have a lot of natural, basically natural shoreline.
16:23:08 I don't mean natural like specifically as capital and SMP, but we have a lot of high quality.
16:23:11 Ecologically valuable shoreline and we should be thankful for that. I am. And so I think we recognize in our own master program that.
16:23:20 That the basically what we want to do is keep things functioning the way they are and and don't allow things that'll get in the way of that.
16:23:33 That's why if you look through the use table, I think the best way to understand what it means is to Look through the whole use table, not just the acqual culture section, but
to see where there's differentiation between.
16:23:43 The how we would consider proposals for use in development in priority aquatic versus aquatic. I'm not looking at it, but I'm willing to bet that.
16:23:52 We are more restrictive in terms of things like. Floating infrastructure or docks, peers, floats.
16:24:01 All that kind of thing that we would be more restrictive in the priority aquatic than we would be in the aquatic.
16:24:07 So I guess just think of it from that perspective that I don't think it precludes though aquaculture because I remember correctly it is a P.
16:24:14 Empire in priority aquatic for aquaculture not Kooi duck but other types of aquaculture.
16:24:20 So I don't think we were saying that all of this prior, 42% of our aquatic area is is to be restricted such that we won't have anything there, it would just be.
16:24:30 Sort of extra cautious about what we choose to allow there, but done correctly. Aquaculture could be a piece of that.
16:24:39 I think that that's that's how I would interpret the table just by looking at the letters and the columns.
16:24:44 We only have 5Â min till, we need to adjourn. So. 7 if we go off clock tower.
16:24:55 Oh, right. Thank you. How do we want to? Direct staff for our next.
16:25:03 For next meeting. Could I go through a couple of other points just in spending the weekend doing some research and having some conversations around this that I would love for.
16:25:15 You all to hear. like I said, I, would really like to find a way to pull in some of the other BMPs.
16:25:26 From permits. Suffice growers put a lot of work into. Other permit applications. And they commit to a number of practices that We don't include in our.
16:25:42 In our code here, proposed code. And I, so this whole kind of question of how to not recommit to redundancies.
16:25:52 You know, we could.
16:25:55 No, pull, you know. Require other the other permits get submitted with the application so that it's part of the the facts of the case or.
16:26:07 I don't know. Just trying to think how, what's the, not extra work, right?
16:26:12 It's just. Yeah, it's work that's already been done, but can be referenced.
16:26:16 You know, for example, derelict gear, you know, that is addressed in, in other permits.
16:26:25 You know, the And I'm not sure if this is in response, but you know, some shellfish growers will have regular gear patrol where they go out on a regular basis and you know,
do walk their shoreline, collect any.
16:26:40 Any derelict gear plus after a storm event. And, you know, just how, like, how can we incentivize that since it's already being identified in other?
16:26:52 BMP is even the Pacific Northwest Shellfish Growers Association have BMPs. When you call a BMP, I know that's the best management practice, but are you suggesting that we have
a suite of conditions?
16:27:06 That we impose on folks who are applying for a conditional use permit, whether it's administrative or full.
16:27:18 Is that what you're suggesting? No, but I think and I won't know the level of detail on this that Josh might or certainly others do that other permits, you know, again, that
the have already been.
16:27:31 Applied for and probably granted. I think we we require that. Other the nationwide permit and others have been obtained before applying for this one.
16:27:43 Have BMPs that I guess I don't know if the application is kind of, you know, people speak to how it how do they plan to meet those BMPs or if they are required to say that they
will follow those BMPs because I know I mean I think a BMPs is non-regulatory.
16:27:59 They're just best practices, right? A backstop, a requirement. But it sounds like just other permits are.
16:28:08 Already addressing those and so trying to think how do we pull that in without being repetitive. Or redundant.
16:28:17 But still. Have some consistency and some assurance that. Of a new permit could be compliance with Bmp's.
16:28:28 That were part of previous? Yeah, yeah, but I just don't know, you know, and I have not dug him to exactly how the different permits ask for it, but if I could comment on that.
16:28:40 In 2Â min. My experience and having worked worked for different agencies now is that every agency likes to be the last one, right?
16:28:51 Right. DNR gets to be the last one when it stood on aquatic land because it's a proprietary thing.
16:28:55 Like if you want this lease, it's not just a regulatory deal. Like if you want this lease, this is what you're gonna have to do.
16:29:00 And it's written into the rules for DNR that they have all the other permits have to be in place.
16:29:04 So they are kind of like the last one. Visual Wildlife doesn't like to do SEPA.
16:29:10 They like the local government to do SIP. But there's also not an HPA for aquaculture.
16:29:15 So I would say actually there's fewer permits in some ways. Ironically, suppose, perhaps, then some other operations like a like just a like a peer or a dog but I would say
that the also there's different okay so the requirements the conditions of the nationwide permit from the Army Corps of Engineers is typically what's been sort of the standard for aquaculture
operations.
16:29:36 That is in flux if I understand unless they've actually already reached the new nationwide permit for aquaculture.
16:29:44 I'm not sure I kind of lost track of that. I'm sorry about that but I know that that was something that there was a nationwide permit in place.
16:29:50 Number 48. And there was a lawsuit and then they had to go back to individual permits and now they're working on a nationwide permit to replace that one.
16:29:57 And those are only good for a certain amount of time. Anyway, so that's the whole federal side.
16:30:01 Again, they have They have interests that are particular to those federal statutes that they're trying to enforce.
16:30:06 Our shoreline management, I would say it's a little broader. We do have conditions. We absolutely have conditions in our current SNP that we've already put in place for aquaculture.
16:30:15 Oftentimes they're not too dissimilar from other things. They might be a little different.
16:30:19 And I know that we're sensitive to that redundancy question as well, but we also there is a the joint aquatic resources, permanent application or a, that is meant to try to
tie things together neatly.
16:30:30 We do require people that the need to get all the other permits they need to get and be. Compliant with those permits, so we have an enforcement mechanism or a co-inforcement
mechanism for that.
16:30:40 The industry also has its own Vmp's. Which we haven't, I don't think, converted to a letter.
16:30:46 2 regulations, but they do have their own BNP. And oftentimes when we ask them, how are you going to meet this standard?
16:30:52 This no net loss standard, for example, they will produce information that includes their own BMPs and how they're going to do it.
16:30:59 And they would say, great, do that. And then we write into the permit that you have. So that's what you have to do.
16:31:04 So I was, I guess I would say I feel pretty comfortable. We already have most of what you just said.
16:31:07 But maybe there's something I'm missing in there. Well, and there's always the difference between what is written in our code versus what is part of a permit application.
16:31:15 You know, so it says here I'm looking at,
16:31:19 Oh, sorry, it's gonna take a while to find the heading, but on. Page 150.
16:31:27 Predator exclusion devices shall be firmly attached or secured so as to not become dislodged.
16:31:33 You know rubber bands, small nets, should be promptly recovered and disposed of.
16:31:38 So, you know, I get that it says that I don't know what that translates to in an application is that, you know, demonstrate.
16:31:44 How you will ensure that all predator exclusion devices will not become. You know, debris in the rain environment.
16:31:54 So, you know. So it's a little hard to know the application just based on how our code is written.
16:32:01 But I would like to find some way to like reference the other. I'm using Bmp's to talk about kind of where, what other.
16:32:13 I, yeah, permit conditions have already been committed to to get to the same impacts. Of in this case.
16:32:22 Derelict gear and plastics in the marine environment.
16:32:28 But maybe that's in an application format that I just don't know about or it's something that can be added.
16:32:34 Yeah, these are the. Other permits applied for and received by this entity. Yeah, so that like that's a kind of practical.
16:32:47 I don't know.
16:32:49 I would rely on you to tell me if that is built into the process somewhere.
16:32:56 I guess I'm following what you're saying and I would.
16:33:02 I would say again, I feel like the way it's currently set up from our standpoint. Works okay.
16:33:09 I'm I'm echoing. I'm hearing in my mind like a lot of the the comments from the industry that they wanted to make sure that.
16:33:16 They weren't being asked for something and then they'd have to produce a slight variation of that thing over here for us.
16:33:22 And I remember answering that if you've produced a report that's required by another agency and it meets this spirit and the letter of what we're asking for because of this
policy, submit that.
16:33:33 Or if you've gone through a NEPA process, we could use that information for our SEPA process and those kinds of things in order to get to a more efficient decision.
16:33:39 But I would say that we have a whole set of regulations and in fact I'm hearing Mr. King say that you have too many pages of regulations.
16:33:48 It went from X number of pages to Y number of pages and there's too many. So I guess my question back to you would be.
16:33:53 I'm not sure what you're asking us to do in terms of. The rubber hitting the road like for me a lot a lot of times like I because I hear at the planning commission a lot of
discussion about things, ideas, policy.
16:34:04 And it's always back to, okay, so what should it say actually in our code? Cause that's what we enforce.
16:34:11 That's what we use. So I'm not sure if I'm following you and what it should say.
16:34:14 Well, I think it's because I don't know the format of the application. Is the application saying demonstrate how you are going to stop?
16:34:20 Derelict gear for entering the marine environment. I would say the application you asked for is the JARPA.
16:34:26 So that has all the things you've got the JARPA, you've got the C.
16:34:28 But checklist and then when we go through the specific, there's a table in this proposal actually that we produce upon recommendation of the Jamestown, Scalom Tribe and they
were happy with what they came up with at the table.
16:34:41 Not everybody was happy with every element of it, but we came up with a thing. These are all the things that you would need to demonstrate to us in order to meet the conditions
that we have, the policy that we set forth in our SNP around this use and the no net loss standard, this is what you have to show us.
16:34:56 So show it if you can show it if it shows it. If you're able to demonstrate that through the JARPA and the SEPA checklist alone, great if it requires an additional report that
that would have to go into more detail about that item then you're welcome to do that if you've already done that for another agency you can turn that in and there are some cases where
that particular element is
16:35:14 not applicable to this particular. Application type or based on where you're proposing to do it. That was another thing that came up in the discussion is that do we automatically
have to turn in every single one of these things?
16:35:25 And the answer was no, not automatically. We can have a pre application discussion. We can figure out which things are actually applicable to what you're proposing and where.
16:35:33 And we tried to differentiate between different kinds of uses between a oyster and clam versus. Yeah.
16:35:39 Josh, I put the language about being able to use other studies from other federal or state entities in the chat there and I think it's on page 158.
16:35:51 Of 2 39.
16:35:54 Thank you. And I realize that, you know, what we are in no way want to make you feel rushed about this decision.
16:35:59 So and I'm feeling I guess rushed in terms of the hour here. So whatever you want to do, we can set up another time.
16:36:06 Can't always, you know, sometimes Lisa and Amy will be available. Sometimes they won't.
16:36:11 And of course we have, we still have it a task to write up this ordinance. So, but I mean, really.
16:36:17 I mean, we want to do this right rather than rushed. So. Just don't feel Yeah, we didn't have a consent did not have a consensus on option.
16:36:26 Right, right. Hard to write an ordinance if we don't know. Which option to go with.
16:36:33 Right. So we. Did you have a clear?
16:36:42 Yeah, I was happy with. The Planning Commission's recommendation and including expansions in the full it.
16:36:49 Full additional use permit that was option too. Option 2 on the 4 options that were up there. But you didn't want a threshold though, right?
16:37:07 Or potentially confusing. Although the way that Kate wrote it. Seems fine to me. 25%.
16:37:14 Wrapping. Right? Were you number 2 also?
16:37:18 I prefer the planning commission recommendation, but, I would, I would be okay seeing the draft, following the number 2, just a straight C for for the first expansions.
16:37:35 With no threshold, Greg.
16:37:36 Wait, you don't need a threshold at that point.
16:37:39 The threshold is number 4, just to be clear, the threshold is number. No.
16:37:41 Yeah, and I did add a number 5 that Joshua was referencing. Just to be clear on number 2, whatever new is referencing.
16:37:52 And just to be clear on number 2, whatever new is in the chart, that's what expansions would be.
16:37:53 I think there were a couple of instances of discretion. So it would just whatever new is. That's what expansion would be.
16:38:03 Yup, that's how I understood it.
16:38:03 Thanks for that. Thanks. Yeah.
16:38:08 And those discretionary ones were only for upland designations. We're not a heck of a lot of GUI duck aquaculture will happen anyway.
16:38:16 Yeah.
16:38:15 Right. And you know, then we can, I mean, with looking at number 2, we also still have number one all drafted, which I'm still, you know, hankering for.
16:38:26 But. Mine with either those options.
16:38:29 What were you saying? We do have number one drafted, don't we?
16:38:32 Yeah. I might still try to argue for number one when we actually want to come back together, but if we're going to come back together, but if we're going to draft something
new and get something ready, and it seems like 2 is more palatable to the, to you guys.
16:38:45 I would much rather come to a consensus.
16:38:47 I think we're pretty far from a consensus at this point. So, you know, I think just a question of do we want to.
16:38:54 I mean, sounds like we have 2 2 of you who could live with number 2. And you know, so the next draft, right?
16:39:03 It's, that's what Josh is asking for direction on what to bring back. Is that, do we want them to bring back a number 2 draft?
16:39:13 Cause there's some. At least a majority opinion around that currently. I don't want them to go to a ton of work.
16:39:20 But you know. That would be a very simple change. That particular option. And that doesn't address though, however, Commissioner team, the other ideas that you're bringing up
around the Permit requirements and application requirements and conditions and other things.
16:39:37 And this is just talking about the process.
16:39:41 Which is what we're trying to do, right? That was that was the idea. So but I guess what I'm saying is if you want to talk about other things more, then we're gonna have to
schedule more time and get into that because we're We're not unless you want us to produce an ordinance that's not going to reflect these other ideas in which case you will be left
hanging if you will if we come back
16:40:02 to you with that, will be a complete because it won't. Include other ideas that you're talking about or thinking about.
16:40:12 Sounds like.
16:40:06 We had a 1030 for February 12 scheduled for continued deliberations. And the idea between that is that we would have an ordinance prepared ahead of that.
16:40:17 But if we're going to continue this discussion, I guess what I'm saying, it sounds to me like we didn't get to.
16:40:22 At least in what I'm hearing you say, Commissioner Dees, we didn't get to where we wanted to get to perhaps today, which means that thinks we should schedule more time next
week or next week, and not next week, the week after.
16:40:31 To just continue the conversation unless I'm hearing something different. Unless I'm hearing something different. But if you're, if you're landed on option 2, we could draft
that.
16:40:40 We could produce an audience that reflects that, but it won't have other changes in it. Because I'm not clear about what other what else we would change.
16:40:47 Yeah, I would just love to get to beef up language around. Gear.
16:40:56 Responsibility for gear, clean up of gear. And even if that does for I'm no in general.
16:41:07 So that's outside the scope of what we've been talking about for the last Couple of months, right?
16:41:12 So we, Lisa, did, can we seek, is there any chance, we can see what Lisa posted there because we do have language around gear and it and operations are responsible for it.
16:41:22 So I guess We could we could like you could especially if you if you had something in mind I guess I should have to make sure. Okay if you had something in mind I guess I should
say.
16:41:36 Okay.
16:41:30 This. I put in the chat a clean version of what you're seeing here basically. And this is just above the application requirements.
16:41:41 Hmm.
16:41:41 So basically it is seeing. That to minimize redundancy the county shall accept supporting permit applications studies required by state and federal agencies that fulfill one
or more of the requirements.
16:41:56 In the subsections A through e, which is basically that table.
16:42:00 Right, I'm sorry. I was thinking Lisa of that part. There absolutely is a part in here where we talk about gear and your responsible for making sure nothing basically escapes.
16:42:10 Oh, sure.
16:42:10 Your control. There is language in there. Now whether it's put like in the page 150 ish there's a number of references but I could see just wanting to.
16:42:21 Beef that up a little bit. And you know, again, I think applicants are doing that in other.
16:42:31 In other applications. And so I'm just trying to think what's the most practical way to call out what has already been.
16:42:38 I guess what we can commit to doing, if you're comfortable with that is we could commit to.
16:42:43 Researching the nationwide permit process where they're at right now, what the current. Policy from a federal standpoint is around gear.
16:42:51 And we could propose to strengthen that section proposed language as part of the next iteration just based on this direction.
16:42:57 And then it'd be up to you to see whether that met your. The concern that you're expressing or whether you would have phrase it some other way.
16:43:07 It does make that last We just have to decide whether we're gonna try to do that all the next time.
16:43:13 It actually comes before you and. And you want to do that kind of level of. Evaluation of the language like on the spot that particular day or we wanted to set up a different
day and then come back.
16:43:23 Yeah, and I think the scope of it is fairly limited. I will say to it, I'm happy to research this.
16:43:31 The, the shellfish, Groers Association also have a VMP that relate to.
16:43:36 So, you know, I don't think we're reinventing the wheel here, but I would just love to have it called out more specifically.
16:43:45 The marine plastics is a big concern of mine.
16:43:53 I just think we're a little soft on currently.
16:43:57 Commissioners. Amy did do some research on debris with aquaculture.
16:44:03 I don't know if you Oh, for the 3 counties, I have her results. That I can pull up on screen if you would like and she can walk through it.
16:44:13 I'm Joanne with staff to see if there's security to get the doors open. Okay.
16:44:18 It sounds like we wanna talk about it more. I really gotta. You hit the road too, so can you send that Lisa and Maybe we can take up this.
16:44:31 Both.
16:44:28 This new tack on the fifth or whatever the Monday first Monday in February. Well, no, no, the one before.
16:44:35 That
16:44:36 We don't have one special. I was suggesting that we haven't gotten to where. I thought we might get today.
16:44:42 So I am suggesting that we go on the fifth and the twelfth. And we might in the twelfth might actually move to another time because we still need time to develop that.
16:44:50 Barbara has hinted this jury trial is going to be fair.
16:44:57 Sounds good.
16:44:58 Yep. Okay. Alright. Thank you all.
16:45:07 Thanks guys.
16:45:06 Sorry we went long. Really appreciate your work on this. Right, thing for the good of the order.
09:10:49 From Mark McCauley to Chambers(Direct Message):
Barbara is reporting an echo on Zoom.
09:11:03 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message):
I turned down owl mic, but I think that won't handle issue
09:13:37 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message):
I'll shoot Greg a message
09:14:03 From Chambers to Greg Brotherton(Direct Message):
Barbara Ehrlichman is stating there is a lot of echo being heard. Any ideas what it could be?
09:27:33 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message):
I wonder if her speakers are picking up the humming pipes?
09:36:37 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message):
I think Jon may be here to provide a comment?
09:37:56 From Chambers to Kate Dean(Direct Message):
Ahh. parks and rec proclamation - sorry!
09:52:45 From Mark McCauley to Chambers(Direct Message):
What's the name of the guy whose van was towed?
09:53:18 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message):
Flosbee I think he said. I am looking at transcript to see if I can get his spelling
09:53:37 From Chambers to Mark McCauley(Direct Message):
Harold
09:54:48 From Mark McCauley to Chambers(Direct Message):
<Thanks.
16:12:29 From Chambers to Lisa BERK Consulting(Direct Message):
Hi Lisa - can you please email me the latest presentation at Carolyn@co.jefferson.wa.us - Thank you!
16:17:04 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Chambers(Direct Message):
Yes, will do.
16:19:43 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Hosts and panelists:
I have added #5 to the table "Treat all geoduck aquaculture with standard CUP."
16:31:11 From Lisa BERK Consulting to Hosts and panelists:
The County does recognize the benefits of streamlining requirements across different agencies (e.g. Joint Aquatic Resources Permit Application). Similarly, above the submittal matrix
for aquaculture (Table 18.25.440) the draft code would indicate:
To minimize redundancy, the county shall accept supporting permit applications and studies required by state and federal agencies that fulfill one or more of the requirements in subsections
(a) through (e).
16:33:17 From Chambers to Everyone:
From Lisa at BERK: The County does recognize the benefits of streamlining requirements across different agencies (e.g. Joint Aquatic Resources Permit Application). Similarly, above
the submittal matrix for aquaculture (Table 18.25.440) the draft code would indicate:
To minimize redundancy, the county shall accept supporting permit applications and studies required by state and federal agencies that fulfill one or more of the requirements in subsections
(a) through (e).
16:33:46 From Chambers to Hosts and panelists:
It's 4:31
16:43:03 From Chambers to Hosts and panelists:
I asked Adiel to see if there is still civil deputies in the office to keep the front doors open