HomeMy WebLinkAboutchat13:04:27 From BOCC/P.C. to Tom Thiersch(Direct Message) : We cannot hear your comment. you can type it here
13:57:12 And there's current legislation that I've been speaking with Commissioner Dean about. That would improve the statute for you, which is actually only established a couple of
years ago, but.
13:57:22 Seems problematic from our angle in trying to implement that statute because of the requirements. And so if that could be fixed that set this session, that'd be fantastic because
then it would just an easier process for us to actually accomplish with less risk.
13:57:36 Because there could be some outside parties that are interested in such an action. Only because of the precedent it says state by talking about organizations that think about
things statewide like future wise.
13:57:45 And so that's the bigger swap idea. And then there's just, expansion, which is the more traditional approach.
13:57:50 But that has to do with land. Capacity analysis, which the city is embarking on or has already started as part of their 25 update.
13:57:58 So all the timing is all coming together, but that is a lot in and of itself, which is why every time I get to defensive about the work plan, that's because that's just a lot
of stuff to think about.
13:58:06 That's that's irrespective on our own. Which is its own thing. I think that we're concentrating on because in theory we're gonna have consumer service there in 2025 and we're
gearing up to make that successful.
13:58:22 I have a question about the agenda and one of the Look, sounds like we've, we've accomplished the, and work plan.
13:58:30 And. And then put the next agenda I would process improvements. I think also a time for the for plan to interact with.
13:58:41 Gotcha. I thought this might be a time to move our But now, you want to break up?
13:58:49 What? Right, right. So take our break now and the load up on more snacks. And then at 50 20Â min from now, continuing the meeting.
13:59:04 Only my only question is I have more topics. We have more topics on our list to talk. Is that okay?
13:59:14 That'll be the after the break. Okay, so we're doing is we're ending the, end report and work plan.
13:59:22 It's spoken. We're going to take our break early at about 2 o'clock and then continue on process improvements, which is the discussion.
13:59:26 I did, but so my topic is a work plan topic, I believe. Could I bring it up before we break if you're not gonna okay okay, I don't know exactly how this gets into the work plan
but I know Brent's coming, doing the work plan, but I know Brent's coming, doing the meetings about, And he seemed to indicate the Planning Commission that he's leaving in
13:59:51 March or April and he's, you know, he's got some work product that he's trying to.
13:59:56 Put out and I wasn't clear from what he said if he actually was had the idea that he was gonna put through regulations by the time you leave.
14:00:08 But I guess my comment would just be If that is part of the work plan that you guys have in mind that is not exactly on the work plan we've been looking at.
14:00:19 I, I just think that's going to be a really big deal. I think it's gonna be a really big deal for the community.
14:00:26 We're concerned about housing. I think we want to be really careful about whatever we do. With short term rentals because of the obvious conflict and concerns and constraints
and I just I just want to highlight that I keep saying the same thing because I I don't want us to rush through any fastest virtual attendees.
14:00:47 That's their question. I think, timeline is a little uncertain at this point. But there's been talk of, you know, potentially saving on this higher, so keep working on some
of the important things he's working on.
14:01:07 I can jump in with quick update to that. We met recently with the county administrator and yeah, friends full time and pointed status as chief strategy officer would expire
according to the current plan at the end of March.
14:01:19 Phone, we would, we're definitely talking about having, continuing a clerk higher status, which just means.
14:01:25 Part time special up to 69Â HA month. I'm starting off more intentionally and then tapering off and we talked about having our brand stay with us till the end of September.
14:01:35 This is a mutual agreement and subject to change. So there's that. I guess I would say that my understanding of his 6 specific work items that this one is a board directed approach
so we were thinking that we would kind of do this first.
14:01:50 While we're working on the bigger picture and inhabitating on the other, proposals and developing those.
14:01:56 But I understand what you're saying and that's probably also something to change, but that was the original idea is that you would get this thing off the ground and maybe we
would tackle those development regulations first should there be any changes coming out of the process while we're still working.
14:02:11 The preparation for the rest of it. But that's all subject to change. You're also talking specifically about shortage. Yes.
14:02:23 And of course, as the, as Mr. Cheers said, It is likely to something to be something that, that's why we wanted to.
14:02:30 Meet the meetings to start and, and mentioned one of the meetings coming right up. And I think a couple of other geographically, interspersed meetings happening.
14:02:40 So I guess we can see what happens with that. I would say, and, from there and see what approaches.
14:02:46 Approaches surface in terms of possible regulatory changes and it could be either something that we probably take care of first or that gets woven into the entire housing discussion.
14:02:57 So that's to be seen as far as I'm concerned.
14:03:00 Oh, I can add. I've been the commissioner working on this with friends for a while and it's, you know, it's taking a while, the capacity at DCD.
14:03:11 So it's nice that we have some traction right now and have, time and attention on it.
14:03:18 Yeah, it's starting with the public meetings is one way to start getting a sense of what the public meetings is one way to start getting a sense of what the public meetings
is one way to start getting a sense of what the like I said, I think starting with the public meetings is one way to start getting a sense of what the, like I said, the scope, what's
the, tourism.
14:03:28 Community concerned about limitation of short term rentals you know is that we should be looking at it from that kind of point of view, how, many people are gonna come for saying,
you know, I can't pay my mortgage if I don't have this regulated.
14:03:47 We want to get an idea of how broad the scope is before deciding kind of what is the. The pathway, how many pieces of our code is this gonna be touching?
14:04:00 For example, you know, the, take it down hipcown. That's, for example, you know, the, take it down hipcown, that's all, up a whole other can of worms with environmental health
and they're saying we don't have the capacity.
14:04:10 So, I think we want to get a sense of how, and they're saying we don't have the capacity.
14:04:14 So, I think we want to get a sense of how, the capacity. So, I think we want to get a sense of how, where is the public add on this, how broad reaching do we need to be in our
consideration?
14:04:18 Then we could have a better sense. Of what's the work involved, you know, what's the timeline, what's gonna be obviously the role of planning commission.
14:04:28 So I know it's a bit of a wild card out there, but we're getting a fair amount of pressure to take this on.
14:04:36 You probably followed Los Angeles just did it. So, and what just to bring, we're only talking about the unincorporated area, right?
14:04:47 It's sitting deals, but what's in the. Okay. Yeah, though interestingly the, you know, a lot of the short term rentals, there's appeal to me close to Port Townsend.
14:04:57 So, you know, there are quite a few. We were just told there are 543 different property.
14:05:09 You need properties that are short, and, right now, this is according to one of the service providers who helps with.
14:05:13 Registration and regulation that we've been in contact with for some time. 76 of those are primitive.
14:05:20 So, you know, we're at, 543 unique companies. 76 to primitive.
14:05:29 That's okay. Yeah. So you only has an additional 150 and that's because they have very strange.
14:05:35 Regulation on that. Okay. Yeah, I've been curious about this. You know, the burn is in full scene and they're both good camp things popping up all over the place.
14:05:51 And I know they're not. Per minute, also, at least a couple of them.
14:05:57 That's your one person's, and so I'm, I was just curious as to how they and I guess you answer that how many there are.
14:06:09 In the county. And, how much it takes away from long term rental. Many people. No, I'm hearing teachers and things.
14:06:22 We'll be into town who can't find rentals. So are we putting up barriers? You're getting, you know, little cabins and things.
14:06:33 That aren't really legal. Permitted so that people can stay in the short term. I mean, what is the?
14:06:44 Solution for this. I think you already didn't answer. And those are the questions that. Wanna find out in the public.
14:06:56 And that's kind of on your on your plate right now. Yeah, and I hope that the, participate in those meetings too.
14:07:08 You know, obviously, of issues, dividing it up my district helps. So maybe we can each plan again and saying this, even though I'll be in a district to one, but, no, the, the
other question is sanitation that county is back and forth on.
14:07:25 Out of houses and grain fields and I've done quite a bit of research on and house versus and often they outperform a drain field and they're much less expensive and I don't
know, far in an accounting that doesn't have one.
14:07:43 And so Are they label now or are they not legal? Cause last time I talked to the county, you know, you can't get one.
14:07:56 Cause last time I talked to the county, you know, you can't get one. So Why is they often form a drain field?
14:08:01 Can't a limited number of, you know, can you? Say, you know, if it's on an acre or whatever and so far, many people away from the stream, I can't.
14:08:10 They work. Why? I have been trying to get them, permitted because I know lots of people with the Caribbean as well.
14:08:20 Oh yeah. I also know people with, that have put them in a really poor choice. Oh yeah, you've contaminated their own well.
14:08:29 And you know, they could contaminate my well too. So there are high risk. Depends on the soil.
14:08:30 I say people are gonna do it. It's a we stop permanent in late eighties or ninetyies and it's hard.
14:08:48 Okay, they are allowed. But the amount of work it takes to prove that it is not a threat would be a very high threshold for expensive and then the amount of work for the county
to regulate that a really high risk.
14:09:01 Environmental passer is probably being managed year round, massive seasonal difference, water table largely, is just extremely difficult to, enforce and regulate.
14:09:17 And so our entire company's chosen not to, but that's making it worse. That I mean, it's like, if there's something, you know, if you have 2 acres, no stream within so many
feet.
14:09:30 Know well within so long. But it's, it means. Basically almost every farm in the county is out of compliance.
14:09:39 And my neighbors got busted for their they have had a drain field but they Made the mistake of getting their subject tank pumped and their mandatory reporters, their low income.
14:09:52 And they in their eighties and they had to spend $40,000 to put in a non system. That's not very economical either for people on lowing.
14:10:03 We do have a cost share program if you know, folks that are in that problem program. Yeah. I have that problem.
14:10:07 We have a cost share program. It's income, income banded. They can do repair or replacement of subject systems.
14:10:18 So yeah, but it's even. $20,000 is a lot of money. It's even $20,000.
14:10:23 It's a lot of money to. Could be a hundred percent. That cost share depending on your account. But I know I agree with you 100%, Chris.
14:10:26 But you know, just yeah, sorry to help, you know, public, and, I mean, Hi, I've already recorded a song called Permit Privy.
14:10:37 I've been successful, but I would welcome. We get, you know, the board bodies and then they're full of chemicals and where did they get that?
14:10:51 We have a septic crisis too in the state where we're running out of places to just to, deposit our septic after they jump subject.
14:10:57 I mean, you know, doesn't doesn't go away. And I wasn't, we're pumping our sewer systems.
14:11:01 Both hadlocks new one as well as the portal and again finding places that will accept the sludge because we don't 100%.
14:11:09 So shouldn't that, how many people can come here? I mean, it's like, how many people can come here?
14:11:18 I mean, it's like, I mean, people can come here. I mean, it's like, it's a, it's a sticky, it's not just limited to Jefferson County.
14:11:23 I'm actually gonna spend the whole day in Olympia next Wednesday on this one issue trying to get funding to Jefferson County.
14:11:30 I'm actually just limited to Jefferson County. I'm actually gonna spend the whole day in Olympia next Wednesday on this one issue trying to get funding We survey Linda Atkins
and Pinky and Amanda Grace and myself surveyed.
14:11:38 1616 counties. 2 years ago and there were 7 of those counties that were having. Okay.
14:11:47 So we're trying to get a funding to actually our take for there to be a study for the Department of Health to actually articulate a problem.
14:11:55 So that we can then work towards solutions. But it's like. Step by step by step. Well, I mean, it is fine.
14:12:05 How can we allow more destiny that's not on a sewer if we you know how can we allow farm worker housing when there's not enough bathrooms to I mean, a pit toilets, an obvious
solution.
14:12:23 It's also an obvious risk. And in a largely maritime. County and there's very real risks that are very hard to track and understand.
14:12:35 We know, our, water, works, and, and, and, and, for both human health and environmental health.
14:12:43 It's, it is a very serious risk that is hard to enforce and regulate. And I'm on the state board of health.
14:12:49 I mean, we take this very seriously. We're trying to weigh the. Social equity and environmental aspects of this.
14:12:56 Just know that it is something that we've been working on and talking about for a long time and I also agree with you and I see why.
14:13:05 It's about, I think we should probably end this stuff. As you can see, medication is very interested in this topic and asking us for a question that we all we've defer to our
environmental public health folks.
14:13:26 And Randy Marx, a sanitarium less as hard as agreed to come out and speak to the Planning Commission at the first meeting in large to answer some questions around this, but
really as we said before, as you just said, it's the Board of Health that tackles these types of issues but any kind of whenever you start talking about community planning and development
you touch one thing and you're touching something else all of a
14:13:44 sudden so great conversation and I'm sure we'll continue on it and then we did before we go to the break I know Chair's been trying to get to break here for a second.
14:13:51 That we have one thing to report, which is back to that conversation around the limitation on, expansion, yeah, just for the good of the order to correct, or add to it.
14:14:01 The in our chapter 1820 at performance standards for uses or not conforming uses, you can expand up to 10% with the type one.
14:14:12 Administrator. You can using a conditional discretionary type 2 permit expand as much as 100%.
14:14:22 So they can double the size of their of that non-ing use. Through what, initial use.
14:14:31 It will still be a non-ing use, but. That would be a That's go ahead and make our break.
14:32:00 I'm, mute ourselves and
14:32:09 Very good sort. It's like we're all bad. There we do our. Workshop.
14:32:17 I think that they're made of the workshop. It doesn't other things that we need to got first.
14:32:26 I thought it'd be a good time for you to, between the planning commissioners and account commissioners.
14:32:28 To part whatever we want to talk about. Bill if you had any thoughts about meeting this or if it's it's something it would be helpful.
14:32:40 I thought I have a planning commissioner. Go through briefly what we did this morning. Asked the board, they had on our chart So, that could kick us off or we could start.
14:32:53 We're talking a question. We were discussing this morning about. Representation on the planning.
14:33:07 You have them. Are the, they came to, well, it's weather largely by a number of applicants.
14:33:17 But I, is there anything that the, would like to add as far as looking thoughts are what you'd like to see?
14:33:23 Good. The. It wasn't, you know, race or anything, it was occupational. So, you know, I, cause I felt like.
14:33:41 Being the only farmer on the board that it's important to have. People from the rural areas, the urban areas, that's.
14:33:50 That was all.
14:33:54 And then we talked about how the panic question is. Set up to be 3 commissioners from each district.
14:34:01 Most planning conditions, I think I like that. And we're just sort of lucky that we'd have different interests and expertise represented.
14:34:08 Other committees like the MRC, the main resources committee has specific posts for specific interest. But so we have that kind of discussion and then the planning commissioner.
14:34:17 Many commissioners ask us, what are you looking for? Planning commissioners and then we said well.
14:34:21 I mean, we, really, it's a board question, so that's why you're being asked the question.
14:34:27 I'll add other findings that we had in that conversation. Feelings that it's diverse in interest and and experience.
14:34:37 That representation on the planning commission, rejection County, gets aspects of characteristics. As well as, representing the community, not so much as issue advocacy.
14:34:50 And then talk about that. We was pretty successful. We had a democratic review. Of issues and democratic outcome and recommendations.
14:35:03 Okay, so we have worked in the last couple of years on like improving our process for how we appoint.
14:35:16 Planning commissioners or at least it's been made more clear to me. So I feel like the process has been.
14:35:27 Yeah, improved some and, it will say the process I participated in most recently. So, you know, whether there's a vacancy, the commissioner generally works with staff to that
application, do interviews, etc.
14:35:43 I was really pleased in the last process round, vacancy for district one. I was really pleased.
14:35:56 From the last process round, vacancy for district one, we had 3 highly qualified applicants.
14:35:58 And vacancy for district one, we have 3 highly qualified applicants. And what I'm, vacancy for district one.
14:36:07 We had 3 highly qualified applicants, and wanted to start dropping out, but, And, I remember that.
14:36:07 Yeah. And so, you know, ultimately choosing our and was, wanting to choose someone who was not a homeowner, renter, you know, so we know that comes back obviously that people
differently.
14:36:21 And so, having a rancher and somebody was still in the workforce. Important criteria to me.
14:36:28 And so, you know, I think we don't wanna box ourselves in too much to have to like fill specific interests because there are many and we like choose differently at different
times.
14:36:42 Evaluate what is. Gonna be needed or what voices we want in the planning commission but That's just to give you an idea of kind of where diversity was coming in.
14:36:53 It might not process having just gone through this. And just really please get 3.
14:36:59 Good. That's the first time I remember 3 in my 10 years. So that's amazing.
14:37:06 I, we did have a process problem for district one. We had an applicant whose application went on. Got lost in the space and so finding a way to tighten up like if I put in an
application online some kind of instruction to them to This is what should happen.
14:37:25 You should hear back if you don't contact kind of thing. So that doesn't happen again because it was only by it was a.
14:37:33 Accidental conversation that caught that problem and we were able to get them into the back in the system. It was great.
14:37:41 But if I hadn't just right, she hired me to work on a computer, right? Or would it happen?
14:37:47 And that's on our, and just like in our office. That, process. Alright, Considering the current fly commission.
14:37:58 When you hear our recommendations and such. Is there anything that says, gee, you know, let's plan, for example, he turns out we have people. And that's nothing subtle.
14:38:18 Example, for example, he turns out we have people saying, building, but if we did it You know, I'd say, look, this is interesting.
14:38:19 They have no idea. Of reality when it comes to building. Was there anything like that that jumped out of you?
14:38:25 That we we could change. That's that's a hard one day. I'll all that address the earlier question.
14:38:36 You guys have your voices and we value the city planning commissioners, you know, I think it's great to have folks from the building, the building industry and winters.
14:38:46 I think that's great diversity too. And geographics diversity, you know, when it comes up, district 3, you know, we have someone from the boil, we have someone from Port Ludlow,
we have someone, and that to me is a pretty good.
14:38:56 Representation of South County. I mean, it'd be great to get someone on the West. And I don't think they permit anything if they wanna build anyways.
14:39:03 But, Sorry. But anyways, I think that to kind of steer that towards your question, Richard.
14:39:22 Yeah, there have been decisions that have come through that have frustrated me and there have been decisions that I totally agree with.
14:39:30 But what I would say about all the different constituencies of the of the planning commission since I've been here is that you guys take your job really seriously you want the
tools to get the job done.
14:39:40 Sometimes we've not done a great job of getting you those tools. So I guess deficiencies usually I would say on our on our end and idiosyncrasies in particular members I think
that's just That's representation of the community.
14:39:53 So I, I don't. I don't drive that in and a little bit to what Kate said earlier about changing the process.
14:40:00 We have changed it so that if you like a planning commissioner or an MRC member or anyone is, you know, finishes there, you know, a term and someone else comes up.
14:40:10 This is the big functional change I think that we made is that we would accept, this is the big functional change I think that we made, is that we would accept new applications
for a seated role and I think that we made is that we would accept new applications for a seated role and consider them all.
14:40:18 And I think that's the way that we can continue to encourage. You know, diversity and, changing.
14:40:26 You know representation of the population that our population does continue to change but there's a lot of churn in Jefferson County.
14:40:36 Yeah, I think I don't put value judgments on the ceiling commissioner. You guys are doing your job or my question.
14:40:44 You've answered my question. And even more. And you're right about the renewing, billing empty seats as a very good way to we can fix things, that might exist.
14:40:55 That's good. I would just add that, you know, I spent quite a bit of time focusing on all the committee appointment processes with our staff.
14:41:06 And not just the planning commission, but when planning, Well, all districts. It's interesting to look at the sub geographies within Jefferson County and the different issues
that exist in Jefferson County and the different issues that exist.
14:41:24 And it's interesting to look at the sub geographies within Jefferson County and the different issues that exist.
14:41:26 In district 2, for example, you know, somebody who lives adjacent to the EGA or a builder who lives in district 2 might have a very different perspective.
14:41:29 Than someone who lives on same marathon. So there's it's important for me to see that there's geographic.
14:41:35 Diversity within. Within the district for some place like this or 2 where there's a lot of character and sub geographies of district 2 and district 3.
14:41:48 I think it's important to think about. Across the landscape and then also subject matter knowledge.
14:41:55 So it's a little bit, I agree with Kate, it's a little bit of a hybrid.
14:41:58 Important to not be too constrained because the opportunities arise with people. And you want to be able to take.
14:42:06 Take the opportunity. Thank you.
14:42:12 Yeah. One of the things I appreciate about our planning mission, I was saying this to the planet, I'd like to say to you, I've said it to some of you individually, but.
14:42:22 So they're broad audience. I really appreciate that we are a citizen. And it's important to me that we be a citizen and planning commission.
14:42:34 So to me that means, the example I used this morning was. I've seen boards where everybody on the board really just works for some other organization and everybody sort of cross
pollinating but they're all flying up at that level of all the on your board and you be on my board and everybody be on each other board and it's part of my hours that I put in.
14:42:56 And we right now don't have that. We have people who represent different industries, which I think is really valuable, but they're still citizen.
14:43:03 From my point of view, as a service to the community and I think that's really valuable and I appreciate that.
14:43:14 I was just going to. Prompt with another question to extend this. We talked about kind of the basic function of the planning commission.
14:43:26 We talked about trying to bear basic function of the planning commission. This is Richard's response to integrate community news into the long range planning process.
14:43:31 And so we started talking about what our best practices. For that community connection. And Richard had an example that his outreach and district 3, involves.
14:43:45 The community center's webpage and a Google group posting about what's going on with the planning commission.
14:43:51 Are there things that the board could share with the planning commissions for best practices or? That meeting that need to meet the community.
14:44:04 It's amazing. It's amazing how much input we get about issues. And recently I was accused of complaining about all the, I was actually marveling.
14:44:19 I don't represent or that any amount of input that I get and I would spend, I mean, I didn't need to buy up for this job.
14:44:29 I was been 18Â HA day talking to folks in the community. And I hear of all different sides of issues and I appreciate that and I want to hear from more and every Hi my advocate
for us extending a hearing process or it's to get more input to hear from more hear more voices and I think that.
14:44:45 If there are interesting. Ways to do that. That folks know about at this larger table that we could.
14:44:55 So let's get more involved or engagement or input. I would love to hear those because I don't Sounds I feel like, wow, I've only heard from like 3 people on this issue and I'm
like, this is big, you know, and What I am hearing a lot about relative to the planning condition and it makes me a little bit nervous and I know we're working on it is.
14:45:16 What's gonna happen in that part of that phase one, UGA? A lot of my neighbor that I live, I live within that boundary.
14:45:23 A lot of my neighbors are like, what, how big are the buildings? And like, well, there's development, you know.
14:45:29 Those development restrictions and so I've given them that page the table. It's like, what does that look like?
14:45:41 A lot of people asking, what is that look like? A lot of people asking, what is that gonna look like?
14:45:44 And I said this to Josh, I said it to Brent and I said this to Josh, I said it to Brent and I said it to most of the staff.
14:45:46 But it's still a question I continue to get. Is, when are we gonna see what this is gonna look like?
14:45:53 How's the intersection or QFC is gonna change? How's, you know, those are the kinds of questions I've been getting and I still don't feel like other than the.
14:46:03 And development table. Yeah, it just gives me an idea. I'm looking at advanced because as I mentioned previously, ask D to help me out with.
14:46:13 The RFP process, request for proposals for consultants, consultant management, all that. And we're working on our RFP right now for the 2025 update.
14:46:23 Perhaps we should put something in there about. The Yuja's only project and visualization tools like to make sure that we get a consultant on board who could.
14:46:30 Render things or show show pictures because even that habitat for humanity meaning that you just told me about already that happened at the library.
14:46:40 Had had had a neat picture. That's just right there. Just communicate so much more. And what are these things?
14:46:52 Yeah. You know, and I think that's just, and that's, I'm happy to pass this around, but I decided I do want it back.
14:46:57 But this is the rendering of the new habitat. And that's, I'm happy to pass this around, but I decided I do want it back.
14:47:01 But this is the rendering of Boundary, but I think that the community is asking for that and how can we.
14:47:05 How can we meet then? Yeah.
14:47:10 And, the, the, I guess if we repeat something and not then. And you know, it's okay with some things.
14:47:22 I wanna point out one of the highlights this year is that, the housing stuff that we were working on.
14:47:26 Was warmly embraced by Brett Buckley when he was director. He really understood the intent behind it and he encouraged us a lot kind of set up so like whatever Joshua and Joel
have now, something that was really encouraged by Brad.
14:47:42 And one of the things that One of the light bulbs that went off and Brent's mind, when we're doing it, it's really inspired me and I know this isn't necessary from a good point
of view.
14:47:52 But I really believe it's what people in the U. Is the notion of developing these performance standards for rural areas.
14:48:01 Bring back knowledge into the UCA as part of the incentivization. Of affordable housing and taking advantage of those.
14:48:10 State and sign up to maybe build well or build this but to do it with performance standards in a way that looks beautiful and is healthy for the people that live in.
14:48:20 And I got really excited about that for a moment and I have to see friends that live there too and I told them, Hey, you know, we're working on some.
14:48:26 Cool stuff might make it relief. More beautiful than it would be otherwise. And protect more area and I know that for people that strictly deal with code is not important necessarily
to protect.
14:48:38 The environment. But I really do believe that the people in the tri area, it's important and we should.
14:48:46 Give folks an opportunity to have it be beautiful. That's what they decide to want, you know, in that way.
14:48:55 Okay. I do think it's fair to say to people, get asked that question. It is going to change and like your participation in figuring out how, but it is.
14:49:10 I do tell it just. But it's a dollar stores coming and then that's everyone's imaging.
14:49:17 Well, I thought becoming covered in dollar stores next. I'm glad I have habitats rendering.
14:49:26 Can I can I get back to the prompt? I guess I go back to our county has community conversations where we go out and read every couple of years, not election year usually.
14:49:38 This is kind of a rigid point about how he really gets the word out to the the oil and you know that meeting center is like a point where people come together and we have some
really unsuccessful meetings where we had almost no one there one in Tri area where it's great presentation about the sewer I think S might have been there at that one.
14:50:01 And then we also had some like one down in Brennan, which was kind of the.
14:50:02 The biggest achievement that was just a cat house. And that was all based on community members. Maven's in the community making those connections and helping to amplify what
we are often aren't the best at.
14:50:15 I would say I say we planning commission county all of us. Using personal connections to amplify this and I would agree that you're trying to you're trying to integrate the
community views and you know.
14:50:26 I often think about when you should have filters, you know, when you want broad input and when you want to just decide on something in early early early is what I think you
want broad look brainstorm together.
14:50:39 Let's not look at one or 2 choices and say, or B, that's not what the people like to do.
14:50:45 So I applaud you guys have an outreach committee and I think just building on our personal networks, social media, doesn't have to be rocket science and it's different for different
people.
14:50:55 I'm horrible at it, you know, so. Yeah, you guys are Maven's and you know other Mavens and that's the way I would say we could.
14:51:05 Bring more views in and they really early days when
14:51:09 So, that's good. Sorry, did you wanna respond to something or do you understand? Prompting question about that.
14:51:22 Okay. That's great. That Greg introduced is, I think one of the most valuable things.
14:51:29 That you can do in addition to your kind of mandated, authorities. This is to ensure that the, that the deliberations you do are really thorough and not you know, resist the
temptation of falling into this like binary black and white, you know, it's environment where it's people or you know.
14:51:53 And I think you do a good job of it and it's getting harder and harder to do that.
14:51:56 I think everybody's expecting people to take aside and like put your flag in the ground and not fudge from it.
14:52:03 And, And the We know we are all balancing highly complex system where there isn't always a right answer and there are trade-offs and you know just taking the time to do that
deliberate work and hearing all of the important points when you're saying like are there interests that are represented here?
14:52:22 I actually don't think there are like I love that map. It is consistently been a voice for equity and affordability.
14:52:31 You know, it's so hugely important. And so, I think it's something we really try to do like just ensure that we are stating all of the positions and interests that are impacted
by something we are stating all of the positions and interests that are impacted by something, that we are stating all of the positions and interests that are impacted by something,
even if that takes a while.
14:52:45 But, are stating all of the positions and interests that are impacted by something, even if that takes a while, but giving voice, that it's really important for the public to
have trust in what we're all doing.
14:52:51 I'm just making it off space and then a couple of times. Recently, I've heard planning commissioners.
14:52:59 Express that the public doesn't know who they are or what the planning commission does. And so today, I heard Commissioner Eisenhower saying that you could be talking 18Â HA
day.
14:53:13 The public is coming to you as a focal point. Is there a way the board could help the community understand what the planning commission is and maybe direct some of their discussions
to There are district planning.
14:53:27 I don't know if that's we've kind of answered some of that already with the community center operation road shows or traveling.
14:53:33 Outreach. And that's the solution, but if there anything else that could help a planet.
14:53:39 I'm looking for a guest for Friday on KPTZ at 1230. Someone wants a commissioner or 2 wants to join me.
14:53:48 Talk about planning commission. We'd love to, but I'll be out. Well, that's not every Friday.
14:54:00 So, we, we, we wanna take care and we open up. Let's do it.
14:54:02 I wanna know what to say, you know, maybe give me a little time after. I'd want to know what to say, you know, maybe give me a little time up.
14:54:09 Well, I always say, no, it's with Jim Berk. We have a county connection show Friday at 1230.
14:54:25 So after we're done here, anyone that's free this coming Friday. Yeah, you know, we don't do, we're trying to get the word out, but, yeah, people have ideas for shows to on
subject specific subjects.
14:54:43 1 31. Yeah. It goes back to what you were saying, that.
14:54:50 When somebody comes to you. You did think it was a doubt. And then we were talking about when somebody should or or does or doesn't come to the planning commission.
14:55:01 What I've noticed is If it's near and dear to their heart, they come the planning commission and you can really tell that when we have our public hearings.
14:55:10 And I saw that when I watched your video on the. The shoreline master program because I'm really concerned how this whole thing can end up.
14:55:20 If people want to voice their concern, they'll voice their concern. And, yeah, we do go out in the community.
14:55:29 We do talk to people about what's going on. But I think that If they know the planning commission's involved.
14:55:37 They find that out, they come to the planning commission and they talk to us. If it's not important and it's not on the list for something, nobody's going to be coming to us.
14:55:47 And if they do, it's really going to occur. It's like the county commission meetings.
14:55:53 I've been in that chamber sitting in the back of the room and there's not very many people in there talking about things.
14:55:58 And that usually some of the same characters are up there typing at the beginning of the meeting. But if it's something important, they'll feel that chamber up as we fill our
room.
14:56:08 So. I think if we continue to get the information out into the newspapers. Onto the radio and by board of mouth.
14:56:17 People are interested, they'll show up and talk to us. They may not stop us on the street, but they'll come to.
14:56:24 I want to just touch on something you said, and that's Often we hear when people are concerned about something or really afraid of something.
14:56:33 I just I I try and I love for getting people that are supportive of something. Out is a lot harder.
14:56:42 And there's also a real barrier for a lot of people accessibility bear for those that are still in the workforce.
14:56:51 Reaching out to those folks that don't have the luxuries that allow them to you know you know chamber at 9 in the morning on Monday or even online at night in the morning.
14:57:03 It's something we can all do. Better. So just reaching out to those different populations is something.
14:57:11 And we have thought about that where possibly we would have meetings at various places as well as different times for different days so that we can meet the demand of those
individuals.
14:57:21 If I had that, I don't know how convenient that might be for. Your team that it could be a lot easier for us to do that on Saturday or So that's all day.
14:57:47 I think another, sorry. Oh yeah, I mean I've noticed that this is my very weird time here that we will see very intense very narrow engagement on very, personally affected.
14:58:02 That. Yeah. Who knows what 99% of people really deal or care. Don't care as nationally without that breadth of feedback is interesting and hopefully something to be trained
by being mission.
14:58:19 I can see chat in other ways. But I wouldn't encourage us to know that we are If we were appointed by elected.
14:58:27 People to the brains of that perspective every day. And then I was thinking to your point about filters at different levels and I think that's why I'm excited for the.
14:58:39 Again. That breadth of input on kind of setting the values and goals. That are really reflective of the diversity of the community.
14:58:51 And then just being able to refer back to those as you know, go through the process rather than on every single.
14:58:58 Issue area policy, little, trying to get feedback, which we should still try to get feedback, but.
14:59:05 We know that if we feel confident about the goals and the priorities of community are then that should. Should put us on the right track.
14:59:15 Yeah, yeah, just to echo it. Yeah, there are times when we know people like as soon as there's been like a couple of 100 public comments.
14:59:30 You know, there's like, there's that list, right? Even, Even then the separation of blackboard diversion in ways, you know, bad enough comments on that to do something.
14:59:38 We know how people feel about that. Certain things like UTA and the short term you know, they have become input process.
14:59:46 But in case of a solid amount of input, I think that often people are less likely to offer more because what are they doing?
14:59:54 They could stick in their neck. And they already did that 5 years ago. And the year before that.
14:59:59 And, our job is to prove that we remember the comments. For 5 years ago. And so that's what we're trying to do in the commission because we don't have any special common periods
all the time, at least not the ones that yield massive results like a compliment in the face cycle.
15:00:15 So it really worked off that to honor all the comments. Is a as a group, and to not necessarily expect more if it's obvious that we know when people stand.
15:00:27 And I guess, I you to send books to us if they have something positive. Do they work in that stuff a lot?
15:00:44 They'll come up with something that we haven't even found. To mention recommendations. How does that help?
15:00:54 To rip off something that Matt just said, I think one of the advantages we talked this morning about.
15:01:02 That I appreciate is we have a lot of history on this planning commission and it's it's impressive to me that I've got 9 years and I'm a youngster compared to other commissioners.
15:01:14 So, that's really awesome. So, that's really awesome. So we do have that body of knowledge and to my point.
15:01:22 I think that's mostly true. I had a big concern during the legal lot of records. Thing that it was that that was a very difficult.
15:01:33 Thing for us to understand. And I was very concerned that the public didn't know if it was affecting them.
15:01:40 So they didn't know whether they needed to come out or not because it was so hard to grasp.
15:01:46 So that was a specific example that I think it's more unusual. And that's right, but most usually if people care, they're going to show up.
15:01:53 But that was a weird one and I really worried about it.
15:02:00 Okay. To the values of the community. So one of the findings that we have to make per our unified development code is something in comparison to the widely held values of the
county, which it's always a little bit tricky to try to make assumptions around it, right?
15:02:16 Yes, we can only guess by the engagement on that particular issue or what the confidence is which ostensibly represents the county over time.
15:02:24 It does a good job of doing that. But things have changed and so I know that I was gonna ask Joel, actually, was the last time we did a survey, I believe we've done surveys
in the past.
15:02:34 And gotten some, you know, statistically valid data about what people think about general questions. And I'm thinking back to the RFP, maybe we should add.
15:02:42 A limited survey. I'm not talking about like a 300 page thing to know what's going to fill out but maybe even some kind of a digital thing where people can be invited to engage
and just answer a few basic questions.
15:02:51 And that, at least have some more data about what the widely held values of the county are. Just thought.
15:02:56 The the big winner was at the last planning at the last companies plan update when we had the big board.
15:03:03 In all categories. And we had people put their dots and put their comments on. And it was like, what does it sticky notes on the board?
15:03:11 Just generated massive amount of comments. All categorized, organized. And, 43. That's the answer.
15:03:27 It's all in there. That's the foundation. So yeah, built that. He wanted public record.
15:03:37 Does require going back to beginning to the accumulation. Cool. Oh, I was just gonna, you know, I think survey was down in 2,000 and that was I think facilitated by the leader.
15:03:57 2,000 or 8,000. Well, we had a survey of county bytes, around that date and
15:04:02 I went to try to think of the WSU business team. Slipping my mind right now. Team Jefferson.
15:04:11 They were operating some training that I went to. Outreach in businesses. And there are some entities that help you do a survey.
15:04:21 I think the leaders part of that. That. Something we haven't done very often. Well, we have to do a public participation plan as part of the 2025 update.
15:04:32 So. It's up to us. What we want that to look like. I'd love to have ideas on the board and the commission of course.
15:04:37 Around them. Last time we had a website and people could go comment and different under different categories. Oh yeah, we did have a web portal or comments through Grannicus.
15:04:49 And contract with them for a little bit. And it didn't yield much. Well, as far as the cost and the number of responses.
15:05:01 I think we have about 200 responses over the term. 2018 off. People are a lot more online than they were even than 11 or years.
15:05:14 We just had a strategic plan process, which did include a web portal, some kind of information gather thing.
15:05:16 Just, and we want to talk about that in terms of what we're going to a web portal, some kind of information gathering thing.
15:05:20 Does anyone want to talk about that in terms of what we found. Just anyone want to talk about that in terms of what we found? Did we find a lot of participation in that?
15:05:22 I can't remember We're happy with that or not. You know, out there in public by, you know, housing.
15:05:29 Blackpoint marijuana. Comments coming through this. Got a lot of those. Was a lot.
15:05:55 It was amazing when she did. Now I sent out an email to the planning commission about the strategic plan.
15:06:01 But we haven't really talked about it because that was more of a wider county effort, but I don't know anything else, want to mention about it or questions around the.
15:06:12 The work of the department and community development. The planning commission. And at some point it might be useful to just review those with the team.
15:06:20 I didn't bring them today. I, I was thinking about creating. Excel document that has some kind of split out by department because I think what we're gonna do is ask each department
to.
15:06:31 Develop or maybe provide recommendations on how to track progress towards those objectives and how to track progress towards those objectives, but a lot of the objectives, but
a lot of the objectives and strategic plan were designed to be.
15:06:42 Reflective update of the work that we know we're gonna do like the periodic review and you know.
15:06:47 So I think it's just important that each department who owns a set of objectives knows that they own those objectives and that they're kind of keeping them.
15:06:57 On the front burner instead of letting them. But I did review them the other day for a.
15:07:04 Internal meeting that we had and was happily reminded that they are all pretty much tied to work that we know we're gonna be doing anyway, or most of them are.
15:07:16 And so it won't be hard or most of them are and so it won't be hard or won't be new extra work to try.
15:07:20 How many people, you know, how many comments we get around the periodic update or things like that.
15:07:27 So. And it's posted on the county website. Mr. T. It's supposed to.
15:07:36 It's posted. It's posted. It's hosted. And the, in the stock plan subcommittee, we're sitting out working with the city.
15:07:46 We're sending out. Surveys and we didn't get them any responses. The first one.
15:07:50 And my recommendation was getting rid of all the requests for personal information. People aren't gonna want until you, where they what they're considering you know and I think
the second round was a lot more benign, more open.
15:08:06 Simple, disarming. You know, and I've got more responses, maybe that help, but the concept people don't really wanna.
15:08:15 On line where they're giving out personal information. So, Yeah, I would like us to think about.
15:08:27 In the cop the outreach. And we've seen a drop off in a number of ways that people are participating.
15:08:37 And, it isn't there necessarily replacing that with online engagement and so I would love for us to consider.
15:08:45 Like meeting people where they're at. So instead of. You know, I'm sure public meetings will be a part of this, but you know, instead really trying to make an effort to go and
present to the rotary and the home builders and the school board.
15:09:02 I know it's a lot of work but it's that could be you know, be divided up too.
15:09:06 Those of us in this room, but, go to people instead of expecting them to come to us because I know we all know the work we get a sexy but I don't know that the public does.
15:09:24 I love that idea and it would be a lot. More feasible from my perspective if for example planning commissioners wanted to do some of that on your own or as groups as district
groups or whatever.
15:09:36 In other words, like as long as, you know, talk about exactly what information to present. And from there, just run with it.
15:09:40 Cause if you were relying on us to get every one of these. Probably not going to happen in the same degree that we'd like it to.
15:09:47 Tool kit that Yeah. Go back the binder, Chris. Well, I was just thinking about that when you brought it up that maybe we should just have the commissioner from our each.
15:10:04 Just turned and. But,'re planning commissioners from each district to a meeting in our district.
15:10:11 And then but we could all be presenting the same material. Yeah, we're down.
15:10:18 One of my dreams. Oh, our dream is. And I realize there are a lot of constraints on my room, but.
15:10:27 I would love to know, sometimes I find out after the fact that some important meeting that I would have really love to absorb would be, the, you know, I would have known about
it ahead of time since I.
15:10:43 Sometimes staff does send out things. Cannot reschedule. Sometimes we don't know they don't have capacity.
15:10:54 Like I'm not But my one of my dreams would be just that we have more. Knowledge of ahead of time so that we could you know, based on our individual interest in the district
and all that be at least our best to show up to some of those meetings because it really helps even if it's not a meeting for other planning.
15:11:18 And it helps to. Hear public discussion, from different points of view. So I always appreciate what we do know.
15:11:25 About those things. And then this is a changing topic slightly. And on the county website and I went and searched the Jefferson County Strategic Plan.
15:11:35 There's one, 2017 there's, 1 2010. I don't actually get a search result for the 24 to 8.
15:11:46 We put that right in front, Right, but I should be able to search for it if I don't know that because I didn't know that so I just search like I do for everything else.
15:11:58 I'd like to support that idea, you know, local district. Getting out there in years ago, you know, local district, getting out there, you know, local district, getting out there,
you know, years ago, Richard, you and I back in the day with the each, you know, and I back in the day with each, you know, went out to clear water and went down.
15:12:17 Brenn It's basically planning commissioners and those were really great in that we had all those discussions because I remember seeing this building.
15:12:26 When we had one and if we go about the bus line and transportation, you know, it's something that was completely off our radar.
15:12:33 But we were hearing about it that we went back to transportation board and talked to them about it. Why can't the bus turn off of that highway and so darn dangerous getting
in and out of and there were you know we found out what issues were and you know drivers are saying they needed a certain amount of you know roadway to get up to speed and this that
the other so I would strongly support be willing to do those.
15:12:55 And then if I can get out to one of the others, I mean, we're always worried about the quorum kind of issue.
15:12:59 You know, I think that's a great way to get out there and listen to people. Cause if there's something that's, you know, thorn in their side, they'll, they'll come to those
and show up they have in the past.
15:13:09 Yeah. 10 years ago I went and I can't even remember who. Was happening the way you went out and got a meeting on the desk and you might be happy to do that again.
15:13:22 Those people. So, Yeah, I'm just wanna call attention to that. Feel like they're just slight.
15:13:36 Hey, talk about going up where people are. Which this is, but then there's also going up specific groups at their meetings, their existing meetings.
15:13:48 I just, that we do both things that there are a bunch of associations that probably are, with somewhere and could generate that list if not, and we should reach out to them
and show up at their meetings in addition to just physically geographically going to those places and still kind of expecting people to come to us.
15:14:07 Without driving. We've done that in the past with with positive and NASA positive results. Our road show, the, jarnier was, Globious patient.
15:14:21 For, very little. So it's hard to predict. I think you just have to show up.
15:14:29 Yeah, I was gonna say something very similar to what Aaron said. In that I think it's both combination so we're we've talked about a road show type concept as part of this update
where we would have a plan commission meeting somewhere.
15:14:43 Whether it's a sub group meeting or the flow panic commission. So I think that's valuable.
15:14:48 But like Commissioner Brotherton said. We have next results in the road show or wherever it was raised. The outreach program that the commissioners did this year.
15:14:56 We went out to the West End. We had a pretty cool meeting there at the whole travel center. But there was all, you know, there was a fair representation and sometimes it was
packed sometimes.
15:15:04 So I guess I think maybe as part of the outreach committee effort or. Each district group could start to generate that list.
15:15:12 I'm sure that the board members also know a lot about the city groups that need. This of all the groups in each district that need, see we can find out the meeting schedule.
15:15:21 I can already think that important. Although the, community that you just mentioned, If we invited ourselves or offered to attend.
15:15:30 Port Leo Village Council meeting, I'm sure they would take us on. So I'm pretty sure.
15:15:34 And I attend every bill. Yeah. Oh, you know, we have a company. So, to a village council meeting.
15:15:42 I mean, we could, you know, so I guess I was, let's find out which groups are meeting what they're talking about and see if we can like at least to offer and if they say no
we don't we're not interested in going for you okay
15:15:50 It's something I can't remember, Joshua, that I've talked to about this, but I've wondered in your.
15:15:57 Planners group just because almost every jurisdiction is doing their account plan either now or next year. If there's any best practices coming out, you know, in community engagement.
15:16:12 That's changed. Technology has changed. I'm just curious what is working in the it's especially.
15:16:19 Cities that are ahead of us and my husband is doing this for the city of Seattle as we speak so it's all we talk about.
15:16:29 And their engagement had really mixed results. I just think might be interesting to hear from the people who are ahead of us and what seems to be after them outreach right now
as we know it's changed even at the tools we have before, so like why not think about.
15:16:41 Adopting some new outreach methods and if people are having work with. Others.
15:16:49 Yeah, that was COVID. Senator review everything, every business practice we've ever employed before, right?
15:16:56 Things are different now.
15:16:59 And people aren't giving. Get a little burnt out on it, you know, And there's still the radio.
15:17:08 Thank you. And, it's good. That's, that's, not, the, the, I like that.
15:17:15 How else like to go ahead to the next topic? Covered this guy pretty well. Well, we addressed the item that we wanted to bring to the board account commissioners.
15:17:29 We have other things that were a part of our days discussion. Is there anything that we talked about?
15:17:35 That you want to present to the board at this point in time. We, our last meeting we talked about topics that we discussed.
15:17:44 One of them was the housing. Good. Yeah, any more you wanted to forget about that? Well, of course, I mean, I look naturally.
15:17:53 How about that? Would you like to start off, Gavin? Well, map it together, you know, thoughts and ideas about cross.
15:18:04 And how to move forward and so obviously when things back out and the
15:18:12 I think it's.
15:18:15 I think really for us, the next step of getting it in front of the planning condition and flesh it out some more and you know, we can throw it from the board account commission
just as as an item to look at and view but I think that, we've got it about some point where we need to, back to the planning condition.
15:18:37 The ideas are to use existing code as much as possible. We're not trying to reinvent the wheel, but the idea of congregate housing.
15:18:44 Defining it. We recognize public health needs to be involved. Potentially public works but not to the level of that.
15:18:56 I know we can look at anything with public works. It but the idea that we can produce more small housing.
15:19:07 Congregated with less impact on the environment than say a single single family structure of larger size or unlimited side almost you know on a large parcel land where coverage
is not a deal.
15:19:22 I think it's important for us to really understand the drivers it on, the environmental health standards of.
15:19:29 You know, cause people always tell you. Don't design a closet in that room, Kevin, then it won't be a bedroom.
15:19:36 And I'm like, that's not how it works. It's, you know. When you design a house, sometimes it's not even 4 walls and a door.
15:19:45 I'm being told that could be a bit in the future, therefore you need 2 more, you know, 4 bedroom and not a 2 bedroom septic design.
15:19:55 It can be very complicated in that. It's the amount of gowns of flow. And what does concern me and I think we need to address is when Would Jefferson County decides that we're
going to do something stricter than state of Washington is doing?
15:20:11 And there may be very good reasons for why we're doing it. But it seems like we're letting our heads up against it and with you know, understanding the health, you know, dangers
of, of outhouses.
15:20:25 Unregulated out houses, far more dangerous in my mind than saying permit the darn things so that when the person threw it again.
15:20:33 Understands. These are the rules in the red. This is where it's gotta go. This is how it's got to be done.
15:20:39 This is how you got to maintain it. It's not like you just did the whole and then.
15:20:45 That's it. You know, if there's no line or any other elements being, you know, you're not doing it properly.
15:20:53 So that for me is where. I think we can't do anymore with thousands. Until we do more with the environmental health aspect of that.
15:21:06 And we all want, you know, a better, but I'm running across some fascinating studies. That.
15:21:12 From Australia to the East Coast. You know, there, PhD papers and other studies about how the small living is having such a it's 70% reduction.
15:21:26 In energy use you know a 50% reduction in material use and all it's like and then they talk about how it then changes the behavior the occupants to where they themselves had
a much larger footprint.
15:21:41 They're using their bikes more in their feet more and they just it went on and on and on.
15:21:46 So for us as a community, we're talking about we want that world character, but we can still maintain it.
15:21:51 Yeah, we got 6 tiny little structures in a cluster and we're doing it and you know.
15:21:56 In a way that's prescribed that we know is going to have a minimal impact on the environment as opposed to one house 180.
15:22:05 On 40 acres of land. I mean, we had the discussion in clear water, you know, you got 2,840 acre parcels and you got people who work at the corrections facility that live in
the other counties.
15:22:17 And the business is there at Clearwater like the grocery store going belly up because no one wants to buy a on milk and drive an hour home when they don't buy it 5Â min from
home.
15:22:27 You know, we talked about what we need to come up with better housing solution. They can't, no one can afford on their salaries to buy 40 acres and put a house.
15:22:36 So I think we all understand these things. And I think what we're trying to do in the housing committee is find a practical way of getting there.
15:22:46 But we don't crack that helping that. I don't see how it happens. If we, if we don't crack the help, then we.
15:22:55 Have what we have. Well, I'm not sure if there, you know, I mean, well, there's black water treatment.
15:23:02 You know, that can be done on site. That can be, you know, we, and, talked about island one before and how, you know, everything that put into their septic system goes through
a blackwater treatment and it leaks out into little creek as cleaner drinking water than the drinking water comes in on their faucet.
15:23:18 They can do it. We can do it. Now, does that mean that we set up? The programs that, you know, somehow we get some of these projects in there and then we study them and we show,
you know.
15:23:31 That it's effective and the environment is safe and the people are safe and our county is the rural county that we all love.
15:23:38 We, I think we got to get there, in my opinion. Yeah, I think that we would have to.
15:23:46 Start slowly and I guess what our what we're working to do and to represent what people have said is to create a framework for further So assuming we can't change anything.
15:23:59 With state law, helpful partnering and kind of we want to create a vessel that can receive future changes.
15:24:06 Whether it's pilot projects or innovations or somebody finally does a science study that shows that. What people have been doing in Jefferson County forever.
15:24:15 It's better. Most legal. And I think that we do have the people here to, showcase that innovation if there's a venue for them to showcases.
15:24:27 But in the meantime, we should just follow, we shouldn't let the restrictions. Environmental restrictions affect the way that we want to implement.
15:24:38 Well what we know is right for our county we can just implement it and then wait for other things come to play.
15:24:44 Or, now this is where I'm gonna. This is where I'm gonna back up 1Â s.
15:24:49 We have 2 proposals that we're looking at right now. Carol, where we're looking at last year's proposal and then we just came up with something simple and independent on our
own while we're waiting to go over the.
15:25:02 It's the overlay proposal. So we have a couple different approaches. One is more complex with overlay, but really both of them are taking
15:25:12 Non pure permutable surface area divided. So it's a division of nonpernable surface area.
15:25:19 Generally should be better for the environment. Smaller impacts in different places. And that different ways to make sure that it's not a sprawly thing.
15:25:29 So the performance standards is something we write. And I was speaking with Marla from the Brooklyn Respond Tribe.
15:25:38 She's the kind of person who can send up to form of standards to early and put onto. Was speaking with her she's pretty into the idea which is it's rare for.
15:25:48 You know tribes generally don't support. Areas but I do think that She really was into the idea of the performance state.
15:25:58 And since it's just a lot of, freedom there for us to paint. From the policy pain present. I'm gonna meet with Joe this week.
15:26:06 He's gonna go over what he's come up with. In terms of the density calculations, different ways to look at that.
15:26:11 I've heard from other people. Oh, that it's I'm not convinced that we necessarily need to create more dense areas that have more tiny.
15:26:22 There could be other ways to. Right in that it's not gonna be. Too many people live in there, you know, these are single dwellings or.
15:26:31 This or that or there's not going to be more people than you can find. Normal house but the bottom line is that if you if you have enough money here and you can do anything
you want and you can pay for tremendous amount and it's not going to be very difficult for us to come up with something that is demonstrably better than what you could do with it.
15:26:51 And if we do it quickly, then we can save more money. And if we do it in a way that's.
15:26:57 Responsible and smart and workable, then we can give it to someone like the land trust who can use it to administer housing to help protect their.
15:27:07 And if we did it really good.
15:27:11 We might. We might be able to. Let me see you are forestry and some more sustainable forestry, with thousands of people to work in.
15:27:21 And likewise, with agriculture. You know, the performance standards are very congruent with the types of, and passed a couple of other things in our little .
15:27:37 Proposal, our initial proposal. Saying that you know you wouldn't want to do small structures on time, the cultural way, you will account certain things that and some of the
things but most of the restrictions carried over and some of those you know One particular project, it dealt with the force land where 7.
15:27:59 And by using a pure foundation, and taking fluid, strong water, it shouldn't get underneath the house and taking fluid strong water, it shouldn't get underneath the house and
taking selected strong water, issuing it underneath the house and leaving the 92% of the trees left on the site.
15:28:11 But the cottages were still put within that side in such a way that the arbors came back saying that the trees won't know that the cottages are there.
15:28:19 It's warm water came back 0. I mean, 0. Nothing was needed or required. So they're always to handle it.
15:28:28 It's a question of if we then set those into that kind of a congregate. How they perform standard and green rooms are used in various other.
15:28:36 They're ways to learn the impact of the house. Far less than what we currently allow. Then maybe we can somehow get there.
15:28:48 And the great thing is that it's either the last count plan, then the cycle of the one before that where we started writing in all that stuff about innovation.
15:28:55 You know, we've opened the door now to allow ourselves to do that and whether it's a pilot program or certain form standards that are acceptable.
15:29:03 We can get there. So we have that's actually working. Dozens of pages back.
15:29:12 Yeah. And there's studies that are supporting it, what we're talking about. So we're hopeful that that's where we'll get it.
15:29:19 But wait, so, so we have a little, I think a nice summary of the work that something may get done by housing and it's mostly to inform you what we're doing in what we're doing.
And it's mostly to inform you of what we're doing in what direction we're going.
15:29:33 And the, in the stage of the process that I understand, and some committee is, has almost as pair a document that's almost very submit to the planning commission.
15:29:39 And, both the pie, that will view this. Make whatever suggestions they have and maybe eventually get People.
15:29:47 I hope so. And I would add to that, we haven't. The 23 work either.
15:29:53 It's just a new simpler. Is this a compared down version of the original? And I came through.
15:30:00 It was inspired by speaking with someone who's extremely familiar with code and so it's kind of written more from an administrative point of view.
15:30:09 To be easier to implement as minister. So it remains to be seen which one's better. And why?
15:30:18 So. We'll keep you updated. Thanks for that. I thought I wanted to highlight something you said, is, is.
15:30:28 Dear to my heart and really important. And that is if I have all the money in the world, I can build a monstrous thing that meets all the codes and that supposedly energy efficient
is supposedly easy on the environment but the impact is so huge and yet these tiny Hey, homes and these tiny projects in these these alternative Those black and gray water systems aren't
legal and their impact relatively speaking to my point of view.
15:30:59 Could be almost, you know, nothing or almost nothing. And I just feel like we, it's hard to figure that out for all the reasons, but I should feel like continuing to push on
that is so important to me because.
15:31:12 Okay. It's just the net result of that immortis really expensive house that the person with all the money in the world is so much worse than these little phones for people.
15:31:26 Good job. 5 responds so far to what the think commissioner has talked about is that. You know, it's part of our job as staff is to analyze proposals from.
15:31:38 The Growth Management Act perspective and discuss it with frost people in terms of this, talk about risk management, these things.
15:31:46 And I've been through hearing sports challenges before. They're not easy. But that. That said, I think these are exciting proposals and I think it's the, it is here as you know
the legislation is passing bills left and right about housing some some good subparts that figure out but you know everyone's talking about it and the time is right to try something
innovative so I'm completely supportive of
15:32:04 trying something new. Based on all the reasons that were just, just described. And I guess I would say that, you know, if it was on some kind of fast timeline, you know, that's
possible, but if we're willing to wait just play it out in 2,024 then What we have to our advantage is by the new transportation elements guidelines, which say that we need to plan.
15:32:25 This is a brand new thing for counting. We need to plan for. Different income. That's a new thing.
15:32:31 And so, let's respond to that. What's that? Okay. And the interesting thing about that for me is like usually we don't have that.
15:32:41 And the interesting thing about that for me is like usually we don't have that any tools in the too many toolbox and, like, usually, we don't have that any tools in the, in,
2 box in Rome.
15:32:43 Just don't compared to cities. That's why most of the bills. We do have a UGA.
15:32:47 So that's pretty clear. But I'm saying the world ends though. I think we have some pretty good rationale when if and when we adopt regulations and for me it's always like that's
where the, you know, little hit the road if you were like what exactly are we gonna do?
15:33:01 And I think, I have this conversation. So what does it mean for our code? What is it gonna say?
15:33:03 Exactly, that's the tricky part to take these concepts and put them in the development regulations. But let's just say for a moment that we do that, we propose it. It's adopted.
15:33:11 I think that already I'm picturing the warehouse and so far the rationale as being related to we're trying to Right, and this, this, this is how we think we can do it and yet
still maintain real character on performance space.
15:33:25 I like it's a special for rural care. It's essential for rural character to have real characters.
15:33:29 It's essential. If you're gonna, if you're gonna manage there's your tagline right there.
15:33:36 Well that's one if you're gonna manage your invasive species early. Like, you know, if you're gonna garden something or if you're gonna reduce your permeable surface.
15:33:42 After driving somewhere where you shouldn't, it's gonna take time. You know, and you're not gonna do that if you're, You're not gonna take care of you.
15:33:53 You're gonna maybe hire somebody, but they're not even gonna know what the invasive species looks like.
15:33:56 But you know, I think how he is in. Okay, go ahead. Love these ideas and I'll ask Simply after the you know the 10 million dollar home that's probably occupying 3 weeks of the,
you know, the 10 million dollar home that's probably occupying 3 weeks of the year.
15:34:15 Right. But I just, I do hope that one of the lenses that you bring to this work is the legality of the state level because I just worry a little bit about raising the public's
expectation too much that we can do things that are Great and that we all in this room might agree are.
15:34:32 We're not. But, that's that we can't set up an expectation that something is possible that is actually not allowed.
15:34:43 And I'm more than happy to, that's something is possible that is actually not allowed. It's not.
15:34:49 And I'm more than happy to advocate for flexibility. And I'm more than happy to advocate for flexibility.
15:34:51 And I'm more than happy to advocate for flexibility and I'm more than happy to advocate for flexibility and I'm more than happy to advocate for flexibility and I do every week
that I down there.
15:34:57 And it doesn't mean that we're there yet. I mean, we keep pushing.
15:34:59 So just maybe in that work, if that can either be a lens or calling out where the limitation is.
15:35:02 And, I just want, I'm afraid that we produce too much work then isn't feasible and then it looks like are we jerks for not implementing something when it could be, for not implementing
something when it could be more productive like here's the barrier and then that's something that we can work.
15:35:19 For not implementing something when it could be more productive like here's the barrier and then that's something that we can work towards.
15:35:26 Yeah, I agree. Excited. Can't wait to see it. I mean, you know, a lot of these things like blackwater, greenwater separation, state law, right?
15:35:33 So there's a lot of challenges there. I'm just wondering if you thought If it's even allowed about cross pollination on that housing subcommittee specifically with.
15:35:44 Member or some environment public health staff just so you can kind of ground truth those brainstorms. At that level before even it comes to the planning commission like have
that conversation the EPA versus.
15:35:58 You know, TCD, having both groups there, might. End up with the more workable plan.
15:36:08 Yes, and we've done we had that conversation. We'll be at the next board. Correct. Good.
15:36:12 And, and, and Randy Barks is coming to the first planning commission. And so starting those conversations.
15:36:17 And see where they go down. But it might be some of this might be lifted to put into your one of your other course, which is the point of health.
15:36:24 Yeah. And at the same time, we want to recognize that the Board of Health is. It's not in a really great position to be doing massive policy, because they're overwhelmed and
you know, so To some degree, we need to do our planning.
15:36:39 Anyway. We can't just wait. If we can find those areas, try to find a way to withdraw them.
15:36:47 In the big one and you know we had the discussion before we were going to that complement cycle that I mentioned earlier.
15:36:55 About the back that sometimes we have to push back up. I mean, the state's been put on us ever since we adopted GMA. We need to be pushing back up on them and saying, no, I'm
sorry.
15:37:06 This isn't working. We're stagnating. We're dying out here and you're not in the bad thing because a living document, which GMA is, it's going to be 50% about people and 50%
about the environment.
15:37:16 We all want the environment to survive, but we need to survive as well. And in rural environment, we need a Gmail to respond.
15:37:26 And she's written into that. I think she's written into that. I think that she's had a big discussion about housing and maybe issues and he has very good input.
15:37:34 A reality check. But I'd like to move on, to other topics.
15:37:39 Just had one thing in response to something the Matt has said about the part of health is you know, that too much work or overwhelmed or whatever.
15:37:48 Hi, in my time on number of health, which since about 3 years now, I haven't seen a lot the Board of Health.
15:37:55 I mean, I've, we've grappled with some hard things. Little bit pandemic, you know, these things.
15:38:02 But I haven't seen discrete creative, you know, questions very often. So I would say don't think of that as an impediment.
15:38:10 Okay. To bringing something to the Board of Health. Okay, bring an interesting question. Spark conversation. I don't think that there's.
15:38:21 Any downside to doing that or any. Yeah, you might get a more to help member that would join your committee.
15:38:30 That's what I'm saying. Really like be involved in talk. It's a different, it's a different, it's a different table and it's got different, you know, skill sets added, you know,
and it could be a really good place to ask some of the questions.
15:38:45 It's a different, it's a different table and it's got different, you know, skill set at it, you know, and it could be a really good place to ask some of the questions that you're
confronted with about environmental I hope so.
15:38:50 Right. Thank you covered that for you well. There were some couple more topics we discussed that we'd like to bring up to your attention.
15:39:01 You know what that was? Extrapolated information about making a decision on planning commission networks. So can we talk about that?
15:39:14 Okay. That was the first thing we got to ask. We're finished there and thank you. And one other thing I had was when one of the meetings of the Myanmar.
15:39:23 Yeah, Brennan and you have to be 50% or favor and pick December against. It's really update from DCD or from the missioners about which one on there.
15:39:34 I can give an update in the sense that we have. We have a consultant on contract is the contract planner.
15:39:43 For the Black Point Development. Otherwise, it's plus partner, Nash. And, the developer, he does wanting to move forward.
15:39:53 We had a staffing agreement that was finally resolved after months of negotiation. So we've We're moving forward.
15:39:58 There are some. Some things we're trying to work through with them. That involved some of the nuances and the various components of the development agreement, which is like
1,000 pages long, including all the dependencies.
15:40:11 So we're moving forward essentially. They're, they're pushing. They're have a schedule.
15:40:17 They'd like to see the whole thing built out of 7 or 8 years. Is what they're looking for.
15:40:22 So, but there are some things in the way of that. And we're moving forward or as you know we're responding to pieces that they're giving they've applied for the subdivision.
15:40:31 So they they put the application in. And we're looking at it now. I think I think we wrote back and saying it's not complete, but we need a few other pieces to consider at complete.
15:40:41 Thank you. Do they still lost the money and what's happening with that? Nope, they paid off the money at all.
15:40:49 That was part of the resolution. And They put down a retainer essentially, so we won't get in that position again.
15:40:57 And we provide them invoices on a monthly basis. And those are detailed to the level that they've agreed to accept.
15:41:06 And so we worked all that out. And, yeah. Every month we go around and get all, everyone who's been involved, tags up your hours and exact day and exactly what you did and mostly
it's mostly it's It's pass through now because we have this consultant so they give us a bill we pass the bill on and they pay it so it's working.
15:41:25 That's a big deal. You know, we have a commission that's trapped in a room with the doors locked.
15:41:31 The questions are comments. So anybody would like to address. Right? I wanna say thank you for coming today.
15:41:40 And, well, they cheered. But I've done this off and on for so years and we haven't been able to capture the 3 of you or the 3.
15:41:53 Commissioners at the same time, I think that this has worked out extremely well. We all get to see one another spaces.
15:41:57 And I think this is a plus and staff. Hey, just again, thanks because you guys are doing a bad job.
15:42:05 Is that a real pleasure? Yeah. Mayor, Commissioner Nelson's. Remarks and also like to say that I came on planning commission in January And we were looking forward to doing
our big compliant update.
15:42:27 The next year, we didn't. We. We only had a director. We didn't have a, we didn't have a planning manager.
15:42:36 We didn't have a director after the first few months that I was there. It was like. So I feel like seeing how much the department has been able to regroup and recopulate.
15:42:51 And just the fact that we have a planning manager. I have a planning director and We do have a plan manager, right?
15:43:10 Start going in than we were. In 2815 when I came on the planet. Cause it seemed to me then.
15:43:16 A fairly desperate situation. And we got along with a a half time contractor director for a while. Thank you.
15:43:29 Thank you. For everybody who did all the things that make me to get us. Things are better now and we're it looks like we're with it again and you see nobody else.
15:43:43 Okay. Thank you all for your work. I'm an SMP as usual, you know, something comes to us, like, to say, the mutual appreciation society, thank you all for your work on the SMP
as usual, you know, something comes to And as you know, we were getting a lot of the same comments that you were from the public, which is why we decided to have that
15:44:00 hearing and been doing considerable deliberation on that. I just want you to know that whatever we Do that it is not because we question the good work that you do.
15:44:13 It's just that, you know, we, might want more information. And so, you'll see as we go along that we are considering making some changes to your recommendations.
15:44:23 But the work that you did to get us to that point was really helpful and I have reread the report that came from the planning commission many times and keep referring to it.
15:44:32 So valuable working. We have that with a couple of changes. It's not like I said, it's not because we question your work.
15:44:42 It just, you know, it might come to a slightly different conclusion, but, really appreciate that you.
15:44:45 Went through all these, you know. Challenging competing interests just like we have to and you came up with a good compromise.
15:44:54 Okay. I was just curious on the stock plans. We were kind of anticipating pick 3 out of the 8.
15:45:06 I just was curious whether you're all Not sure it was a really I don't feel that need to pick 3.
15:45:19 They all look pretty competitive. We'll get through them. I mean, you know, we want to present those options.
15:45:25 We'll just put it on the housing element for different. Yeah, they're happy. I think the first one being pursued.
15:45:35 Oh good. It's great to see local options on there too. Different purposes. That down.
15:45:53 And again, the city did a great job working with us on that. And there was always the discussion that we're not going to get everything in this one, but maybe next time a little
bit of multi housing.
15:46:08 You know, might be another things, but yeah, it was. Appreciate you all. And the cost to do 8 versus 3 was the minimum.
15:46:17 So it just felt like the right thing to do, right? Can I just give one little update for the first time?
15:46:25 I think there's hope that. A bill will pass this year that will. So, that's, that's, the, the, the, the, can allow, that explicitly states that counties can allow an ADU in
all zoning types.
15:46:38 That it doesn't mean that that will happen in every county obviously we already do allow it but there's been a little bit of concern where the only county that allows that currently.
15:46:48 And so this would just. We've got a little bit of concern with the only county that allows that currently.
15:46:54 And so this would just, to confirm that that is, our right to have that.
15:46:58 And it is, our right to have that and it is, getting traction. Let's start to right now.
15:47:04 That is exactly when we talk about these housing things, one of my bits of nervousness about that was like, when we talk about these housing things, one of my bits of nervousness
about that was like, well, if we open this back up and start talking about We're opening ourselves up to challenge because if we don't do anything, we're okay because of this Western
Washington.
15:47:13 It's been for, decision and how it was left. That's fantastic. And if that bill gets all the way through it.
15:47:21 So yeah, I'll be working that. Division of non Actually, Yeah, while you're all still here.
15:47:33 We had a presentation this morning from where I am. And they were going through some of their work with the Covert Introduction that they pointed out that I've not, 6 or 8 different
projects on the county tip list.
15:47:49 And they, speculated that coordination between the state. Watch that and can be useful. Make sure that those are getting those stream files, you know, that the.
15:48:01 And. Mentioned that to Josh. I think we'll just be getting a note here, but. Except that those coordination conversations aren't already happening.
15:48:14 They probably are. I think it'd be good to and I know. Can we talk about other big projects that restoration groups work on that don't make it onto the, that's just for that's
just one flag I'll make for a couple of years.
15:48:30 We're for a nation of folklogs. Different. I'm doing different things, you know, I would like to help with that.
15:48:37 Awesome. Okay. Okay. I think we have the details on that in Could be a minute.
15:48:49 There's a little, The packet so far just had Joel's presentation, which was actually that that's laid the groundwork about tribal history.
15:48:55 In Washington state, and so forth. And Marvelous presentation, we have a digitally, we can Yeah.
15:49:06 It was nice talking to Barler too about the the travel element and how they worked it in Kitsap County.
15:49:09 I mean, do you have any update on how you anticipate that? Happening for the required travel elements in.
15:49:18 Well, Marley talked about having. Every other week they meet with kids. That's a big commitment.
15:49:27 I'm not sure we can make that same command because remember that's only one try. And it's a, we can make that same command because remember that's only one try and it's a tribe
with the UNA not with reservation lands or seated lands within.
15:49:35 So. We did talk about house bill, 1717 a little bit and we talked to the board a little bit about that and so we're still exploring that.
15:49:40 Avenue of what exactly we have to do, we may end up doing something like a tribal. I don't know if that's specifically required, but I think certainly if a tribe or to say they
want to participate in our plane process, say they want to participate in our plane process, then we respond and there's a process for that and Congress can help. And there's a process
for that and Congress can help.
15:49:55 And then with our counterweight planning policies, we are we are to invite the tribes with reservation. And then with our counterweight planning policies, we are we are to invite
the tribes with reservation, policies we are we are to invite the tribes with reservation mails in terms and county to participate.
15:50:05 So all that's on the radar. And exactly how that's gonna shape out. I don't know.
15:50:07 As you all know, I have a fondness for any meetings. At least on time and, perhaps a few minutes early.
15:50:17 Are there any other burning questions or comments? Connect to you, the going forward as far as I'm concerned.
15:50:44 Yeah, we should do it in the call though, cause that's what we plan to do. And we didn't get it done.
15:50:49 So that would be great to do it this fall at the beginning of the. We'll see that right after.
13:04:27 From BOCC/P.C. to Tom Thiersch(Direct Message):
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