HomeMy WebLinkAboutclosed_caption17:21:36 Yeah, the eyes have it and the motion passes. Yeah, item 4. We are on schedule. We have a presentation in between questions and experience for the next.
17:21:36 16Â min from Washington State Department of Thomas regarding the, of plan and the road management. Who would like to take the lead on this?
17:21:47 I could introduce the topic, cause I believe this is my idea. So welcome. We have a couple of guests.
17:21:56 Carolyn, did you bring over a couple of guests? Carolyn, did you bring over?
17:22:01 Okay, great. So welcome to Dave Anderson. And, is that correct? Like, okay, Sorry about that.
17:22:14 From the Department of Commerce. I have the pleasure of seeing a presentation from Dave Anderson at the Association of Counts.
17:22:23 Use last year, which was an update on changes to growth management and the last number of legislative sites. Preparing local jurisdictions for their updates to the company and
plan switch city account here about to mark on and of course include a lot of important planning documents that we adopt in various forms of the PV and port as well.
17:22:44 And so I thought this would be a good opportunity for us to all kind of get on the same page about what we have ahead of us and.
17:22:54 And so I thought this would be a good opportunity for us to all kind of get on the same page about what we have ahead of us and how we can start thinking about and planning
for the work that we need to do as jurisdictions together in our company's plan. Update. So, anyone else want to, do we both 2 planning directors here?
17:23:09 Do you guys want anything to conversation yet or as we have it over to Dave and Matt. Well, I'm, and I'm the city part person, director of.
17:23:20 And I'm excited to hear today's presentation. I think so important and director of managing any development. And I'm excited to hear Dave's presentation.
17:23:24 I think so important things to keep in mind is. When I lost track, I think we had like 80 weeks, enough to do the conference the plan.
17:23:30 So we are on a bit of a time schedule so it's really timely. So we are on a bit of a time schedule, so it's really timely.
17:23:36 Do you have anything else to add? Hey, Josh Peters, community, Dell, IN, DUDE, DUDE, I.
17:23:40 Pay attention to when Dave talks about some of the responsibilities for the county in terms of working in cities.
17:23:49 In our case, we only have 1, 2, to deal with the population estimates that are getting in the office of financial management, then to allocate that population as part of our
20 year planning horizon as part of this update.
17:24:00 So that is something that we're gonna be doing shortly. Joel Peterson here is the project manager for the overall update of the accounting side and the looking to convene the
Brooks Management Steering Committee which is essentially a subset of this body accounting in the city, conversation around that.
17:24:19 But I personally, it's up to you whether you want to include other partners, etc, but ultimately the statue talks about county working with cities to out the population.
17:24:25 Of course as part of opening up our county by planning policies that haven't been amended since. Before Jefferson County adopted its first GMA conference in 1998 and had a city
around that time as well.
17:24:38 Those county line plan policies were established as a precursor to doing those actions and you have an update.
17:24:45 That's something we might wanna talk about as a growth engine started. And it's updating our family's planning process to set us up for success in this Thank you.
17:24:54 So welcome. David and Matt, we'll have it up here.
17:24:58 Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to get to speak to you today. I wish I could be there in person, but.
17:25:05 At least we'll get a chance to talk. So you're at.
17:25:09 Yeah.
17:25:14 Okay.
17:25:18 Yeah.
17:25:11 You're fairly close to the beginning of the process and As we're starting this conversation, I'd like to say, first of all, we look forward to working with you throughout the
process.
17:25:22 But today I'd like to go over some of the underlying basics and discuss some of the most crucial elements that for you to consider.
17:25:30 My hope really is to leave you with a good understanding of the process overall and to give you some critical tools.
17:25:36 To help you get the process started. So I'm with the Washington Department of Commerce and the Department of Commerce's covers a whole variety of topics.
17:25:46 One of the things that's, I think connects all these topics together is when you look at things like public safety and economic development and energy and infrastructure, you'll
see that in every one of these local governments are an indispensable implementation partner.
17:26:06 For example, commerce has a several 1 billion dollar investment portfolio in infrastructure. We don't even own a back home.
17:26:17 All of the work we do, we do through our implementation partners and on behalf of the entire department. I want to thank you for being a strong implementation partner in everything
we do and to see how we thankful for we are that we get to continue working with you so With that, I'm gonna start with, I'm gonna.
17:26:38 Start the conversation with a conversation about the basics of why we plan and sort of why why planning a why planning is a really critical to establishing the future of a community
so actually I should check.
17:26:53 Are you seeing my slides advancing? Everything's working? All right, great. And the audio, the audio is good.
17:26:55 Yeah. Okay.
17:27:00 Great. Okay. So Here are some of the things that I would propose are important reasons why We have a comprehensive plan why we do planning.
17:27:12 We're making decisions that are going to have a more or less permanent effect on the community.
17:27:19 It's going to involve lots of individuals, lots of organizations working together. Everything we're working for is going to be something that requires persistent effort.
17:27:29 So because of that, we have to be thinking long term. And also critical to that is when the public when when we as public servants and elected officials are making decisions
on the public's behalf.
17:27:43 The public expects Fairness and transparency and that's a critical part of Why that's a critical a critical function of the planning process.
17:27:50 Okay.
17:27:53 I'm also going to talk a little bit about the legal foundations of planning. And especially on the issues of.
17:27:59 Takings and due process these are constitutional this is not state statute this is not the GMA these are constitutional principles that go all the way back to the founding of
the union.
17:28:11 The first one when we talk about due process is procedural due process. Is there an understandable process for how decisions are made and by whom?
17:28:21 And was that process followed in any particular case? That's procedural due process. The second question is substantive due process.
17:28:29 Which basically means Did you make the process? Did you make the decisions you made on the basis of a legitimate public purpose.
17:28:40 Is there a rational connection between the decisions you're making, the rules you're adopting. And the public interest.
17:28:47 And is it is the rule itself that you're adopting clear enough that an individual who's, you know, in this case looking at development.
17:28:57 To meet those rules, can they determine what they need to do? Is it these are important parts of the the process?
17:29:06 I know I'm gonna move on to takings and takings is extremely complicated. But, the 2 principles I'm gonna lay out in particular related to takings are the The idea of a rational
nexus, which is a rational connection.
17:29:19 Between the conditions you're placing on development through the regulations. And some. Impact on the public interest.
17:29:29 That is actually associated with that project. You need to be able to explain why the rule is managing an impact that the project is actually creating.
17:29:40 And secondly, is the mitigation you're requiring roughly proportional to the impact. Associated with that project.
17:29:48 And the planning process A lot of the especially a lot of the analytical work is really a fundamental purpose of that is meeting our constitutional obligations to be able to
explain the rational, but the rational basis behind what we're doing and show why it's necessary to advance a public interest if we're enacting.
17:30:08 Or applying a regulation. That's the constitutional obligations. Now I'm going to talk a bit about you understand what's important to have a plan what makes a good plan and
I would propose that there are really you can define good planning in these 2 words.
17:30:25 Disciplined imagination. And I would say a good plan has these 3 qualities in it. The first is it's compelling.
17:30:33 Okay, you've had a public conversation with your community and through that. The community has articulated and you've been able to co-create with that community a compelling
vision of the future, a future worth working toward.
17:30:47 Yeah.
17:30:46 And that that is that's what that's what you'll find laid out in sort of the goals and policies of the plan.
17:30:53 What you're trying to accomplish and what is a future that's worth working toward. The second quality a plan must be is it must be specific enough that you can tell whether
you're not you're actually making progress toward meeting that goal.
17:31:06 It's one thing to have Nice goals. It's another thing to say with with enough specificity whether or not you're going to actually meet those goals.
17:31:15 So when you're talking about things like levels of service or performance standards or the development of an implementation plan as to how you're going to accomplish what you're
planning or the identification of specific projects in a capital facilities or a transportation element.
17:31:31 That's about making sure that your future your goals are defined with enough specificity that you can tell whether or not you're actually working.
17:31:39 Toward them or not. And lastly, It must be realistic. And that's where the forecast and the analysis and the assumptions and the modeling comes in.
17:31:48 It's about determining whether there's a real your your assessment both where you are today and where you're going into the future has a basis and objective fact.
17:32:02 Yeah. Yeah.
17:31:58 Is it actually feasible? I think a good hallmark of the planning process is has it ever forced you to make a tough decision?
17:32:08 Today in order to achieve something for the future. And if your plan is never asking you to make tough decisions and forcing you to confront difficult choices.
17:32:17 It's probably either not specific enough or you're not being realistic.
17:32:27 Okay.
17:32:22 So that's what I think makes a good plan and every. Every state in in the union has legal framework behind planning.
17:32:34 Cities and counties are the ones that exercise most of the zoning authority in the United States and they're creatures of state law.
17:32:40 So every state in the union has some framework in Washington's framework we've got the growth management act In addition to the growth management act, there are other planning
laws that sort of exist GMA exists in this larger framework.
17:32:58 So you've got Kitles, 35 and 36 that govern city and county operations generally.
17:33:03 You've got the local project review act governing how you process and issue permits. Shoreline management act, the state environmental policy act.
17:33:12 Laws governing. Assessment of impact fees. The state water law, regional planning for transportation.
17:33:20 All of these things are also part of the planning framework and oftentimes when you hear people talk about the term the GMA they're not just talking about 36 78.
17:33:33 They're often talking about. This whole thing. Oops, I got a little hit on myself there, sorry.
17:33:38 They're talking about the whole thing. So This and this also works in the context of.
17:33:46 Laws in the state and both the state and the federal constitution. So all of this together sort of governs the planning process.
17:33:56 And the planning process we have and that we work within is this whole thing. And as every state does this, there's a particular thing I think it's important.
17:34:06 That that framework needs to articulate. And it is a balance between a couple of different things.
17:34:12 So here's a couple of things. I bet if you've been to a public hearing or 2.
17:34:18 You've probably heard some version of these 2 statements. Just tell me what I need to do to get my permit.
17:34:25 All right, I just want to know. What the requirements are. Tell me what I need to do and I'll do it.
17:34:31 And the other one is Well, this affects my neighborhood. This affects my home. I should have a say in what happens.
17:34:38 Okay.
17:34:37 And. You can see that there's some tension between these 2 statements. And it's this tension between a process.
17:34:46 That is certain and predictable. And timely. And a process that is expansive and deliberative. And, encourages broad.
17:35:00 Participation and washing every every state in the union has had to resolve this in their planning framework and Washington law resolves this tension in a very particular way
that's very critical.
17:35:12 Understanding this tension is really critical to understanding the work you're going to be doing over the next few years.
17:35:18 And it's this. Washington law when you're talking about the comprehensive plan And when you're talking about Develop the drafting of development regulations and the adoption
of development regulations, what we call a legislative decision.
17:35:33 Made by the Board of County Commissioners or the City Council. Washington law heavily favors This side of the equation, the deliberative.
17:35:42 Process. Okay, so the GMAs emphasis on early and continuous public participation. The way the hearing sport statute is set up.
17:35:52 All of those things heavily favor. Deliberation. However, Once those decisions are made, and it comes to reviewing individual project permit applications.
17:36:06 What happens at the permit counter? Washington law heavily favors certainty and predictability. So the local project review act has got very clear timelines in it.
17:36:16 The Land Use Petition Act that governs appeals has very strict timelines in it. And Washington vesting law is very strictly.
17:36:25 Establishes that you must process permits under. Under the laws and the rules that were in place at the time.
17:36:35 The permit hits the counter. So. Very heavily emphasis on the doctrine of finality on certainty and predictability in the planning process when you're talking about.
17:36:45 The review of development regulations. That's why it's so critical. In the planning process. That some of these fundamental questions about.
17:36:55 What's an appropriate density? What constitutes adequate public facilities that those get fleshed out because this is the mode this is the time to address those issues because
there's unlike a lot of other states where a lot of these decisions can be kind of deferred or second guessed.
17:37:13 When you're talking about an individual subdivision there's very little empty there's very little opportunity to revisit those decisions project by project.
17:37:22 And in fact, when the growth management passed act was passed in 1,991 of the things that was driving force behind it.
17:37:29 Okay.
17:37:37 Yeah.
17:37:29 Was to try to resolve the fact that these decisions were being made over and over again. At the subdivision level and some of these larger regional conversations were never
really getting resolved.
17:37:42 Is there a question?
17:37:45 No.
17:37:49 Okay. Okay.
17:37:45 Okay, I thought you heard somebody. So Washington's law, it. It applies differently in different states.
17:37:59 Yeah.
17:37:56 There's not really one growth management act. There's really There's really probably 4 or 5 different flavors of GMA.
17:38:04 This slides a little out of date here, but we've got with the passage of 1,100, and 81, there's probably another flavor in here.
17:38:12 Adding Spoke and Ben and Franklin, their requirements are getting beefed up some, but there's generally about 4 or 5 different flavors of GMA.
17:38:21 It applies very differently in different parts of the states. Generally speaking, there are more, far more robust responsibilities in central piece of sound.
17:38:30 And the other larger metro counties. You've got sort of the, that applies in most of the rest of the state and then.
17:38:37 Partially planning the far the much more rural counties. End up with a really largely just governing critical areas and resource lands.
17:38:45 So, However, even within the partially planning jurisdictions, the state, there is still shorelines they're still the state planning enabling act so they still it's not nothing
but they're their requirements are substantially less robust that you'd find in a more metropolitan area which is appropriate.
17:39:08 The process we're talking about today that your, your goal, you're going to be undergoing is what's called periodic review.
17:39:14 This is the requirement that every 10 years a local government must review and if Nbsp, if necessary, revise its plan.
17:39:23 To make sure that as it's adopted at the end of the process that it complies with the requirements of the GMA.
17:39:30 So you're reviewing your comprehensive plan and you're reviewing your development regulations. For consistency with state law.
17:39:37 And what you're reviewing it against, this is not a full reopen necessarily. But you are reviewing it against 2 major things.
17:39:46 One is changes in state law that have occurred since your last update. And the second thing is changes in on the ground facts.
17:39:52 Yeah.
17:39:56 Okay.
17:39:54 Associated with the plan. So that the big thing that means is that means you're resetting the 20 year clock for the next 20 years.
17:40:03 And you're assigning and then managing the updated. Growth targets because you've now got a new.
17:40:13 You're adding 10 years onto your, you're at the midpoint. 10 years in your last update.
17:40:19 You're gonna be adding, theoretically at least 10 years of growth on, on the outside there.
17:40:25 Okay.
17:40:24 So that means new housing targets. It means a review of your capital facilities and transportation plan. A review of your critical areas ordinance against new science or management
recommendations and then new legislative requirements.
17:40:37 That's what you're reviewing your plan against. In this case, we've got fairly significant new legislative requirements that have happened over the last few years.
17:40:47 We've got House Bill 1220. That was a substantial change to the housing element. And that trickles down then.
17:40:56 To the way your county white planning policies are structured. The way you do your population and growth targets, those now to be done on housing units.
17:41:06 Okay.
17:41:07 There's the change from the year cycle to the ten-year cycle and also the. Of a requirement for an implementation progress report.
17:41:17 I'm not certain if this actually applies to Jefferson County. I think this is limited to the larger counties.
17:41:22 I'm not sure. I don't think you're over the threshold. To do an implementation progress report.
17:41:27 Okay. Okay.
17:41:28 House bill, 1717 created a new framework. And created a formal role for tribes In the planning process, Josh mentioned earlier that you're going to be convening and looking
at countywide planning policies.
17:41:42 One of the things that, 17 asks, requires you to do is tribes should be invited to the table when you're doing that.
17:41:48 So if you haven't had a practice of doing that. So if you haven't had a practice of doing that in the past.
17:41:52 So if you haven't had a practice of doing that in the past, I would reach out to the tribes that have.
17:41:53 Have lands or seated lands. Within Jefferson County and invite them to the table in Countyway planning policies.
17:42:00 And then there are some other procedures associated with. Developing memorandums of agreement with tribes on joint planning.
17:42:10 Okay.
17:42:14 Okay.
17:42:08 So that's a new requirement. There are changes to laws if you're going to do things like change a lammered boundary, look at your resource land designations, or look at your
urban growth boundaries, there's changes governing the effective date.
17:42:21 Of those changes when you do final adoption. There's an amendment to the definition of a central public facilities to cover things like permanent support of housing.
17:42:31 There are restrictions that were removed on accessory drawing units and occupancy limits. 55 93 addressing urban growth boundary changes changes regarding limiting SEPA appeals
for certain kinds of housing construction.
17:42:48 There were also significant changes. In the last session, the big one is. Changes to housing for cities regarding development regulations and the duty for both cities and counties
to adopt.
17:43:02 Climate element. Those are new changes in addition to that the climate element and the new housing element requirements also included explicit changes associated with environmental
justice and addressing the legacy of racially disparate treatment in, housing.
17:43:24 So, some fairly significant new, new planning requirements this year. The good news is the legislature recognized the significance of those requirements and there is for the
first time since the GMA passed fairly significant new funding for all of these changes.
17:43:39 So we're working with your with your planning departments on providing you that formula assistance right now.
17:43:48 You should be, you should have access to that funding for this year and the next year and for the climate planning work.
17:43:56 On into the future as well. So we talked about things you're likely to hear at a public hearing.
17:44:04 And here's another thing I bet you've probably heard if you've been do a plan a public hearing or 2.
17:44:11 I don't even know why we're talking about this. Haven't you already made your decision?
17:44:15 Why are you asking this for your feedback? You know what you're gonna do. We know what you're gonna do.
17:44:19 This whole thing is just a joke. I bet you've heard some version of that before. And there's there's actually always an element of truth to that statement and here's what it
is.
17:44:30 Every decision that you're making In the planning process, always exists in context. And there are always decisions that came before.
17:44:39 And there are always decisions that go after. You're planning, the planning decisions are never a single decision on their own.
17:44:46 It's the planning process is a series of nested decisions. So It starts in GMA land with decisions about the countywide planning policies.
17:44:55 How are we going to work together on things like regional facilities? How are we going to work together on the establishment of urban growth boundaries?
17:45:01 This allocation of housing targets, those kind of things are defining county white planning policy. So that's the starting point.
17:45:08 How are we gonna, how are we gonna do this? How are we going to work together? Secondly, you've got the allocation of the growth target.
17:45:13 So everyone knows what they're planning for. What's the purpose in need? Associated with your planning process, then the housing needs analysis and the land capacity analysis.
17:45:23 That's some of the analytical work associated with where are we at today. How much development can we actually accomplish?
17:45:29 Today, given the rules we have in place today, how much do we know we need based on our targets?
17:45:36 And then that will define what we need to accomplish going forward. At that point, local governments will work on their growth strategy that will then ultimately be codified
in the comprehensive plan.
17:45:49 And then beyond that, you've got those things that you need to do to implement that comprehensive plan.
17:45:53 Your tomb major tools for implementing your plan are your power to develop public facilities, your public works department, the, the, that power.
17:46:05 And your power to govern and regulate the development of land through development regulations. The most, the most important tools local governments exercise.
17:46:14 To, to shape their community's future. And I would argue probably the essential feature. Of the Growth Management Act when it was passed is the duty to work these 2 levers your
capital facilities levers and your development regulations levers in tandem.
17:46:33 So that what you do with your zoning ordinance and what you do with your capital facilities plans actually add up to a coherent whole.
17:46:40 And then you've got local project review and the implementation. The, act, how this actually works on the ground day to day at the permit counter moving forward.
17:46:49 These are all planning to decisions and they exist. They exist in a sequence and they build on each other.
17:46:57 So one last thing I would and this is. This is a practice tip. If you're a planning commissioner or you're a city council person and elected official.
17:47:06 And you're holding a public hearing and you're explaining and your staff is explaining. To the community at the public hearing.
17:47:13 One of the most important things to make sure that you explain clearly to participants in the process at the hearing before the hearing when you're taking public comment is
17:47:27 How does this fit in context? And most specifically, What discretion are we exercising today with this decision?
17:47:36 What can I do with the information you're giving me so that they could provide you the information about the decision that's currently in front of you.
17:47:45 That's a critical piece of information for the public to understand. Because that will tell them what they what you can actually help them with and what you can't.
17:47:55 So the periodic update process, here's a basic snapshot of what that process looks like.
17:48:02 One of the things we strongly recommend is that you create a work program. You start with the scope of work.
17:48:07 In fact, the grants I was talking about, the first deliverable. On those grants is going to be the completion of a checklist.
17:48:14 That goes through your plans and your development regulations and you can use that as a tool. For scoping, what do we need to change?
17:48:23 For it goes through all of the changes in the statue. We actually just updated it for last session.
17:48:28 All of the changes that have occurred in the statute, we go through the whole. Planning process, all the requirements in the GMA.
17:48:36 And then you can say, okay, where is this addressed in our plan? Do we think we need to change this?
17:48:43 And when you're done with that process, you'll have a scope of work. I would recommend a community engagement plan.
17:48:49 Presentation of the Planning Commission, the results of the scoping document I think is a really good way to start the process.
17:48:55 Then you've got something to work from or work off of, then you've got something to work from or work off of as you're working through the process and you can determine whether
or not we're making progress and are we staying on track?
17:49:05 That also helps avoid. The inevitable scope creep that occurs throughout the periodic update process.
17:49:13 And that will be very important because, as, as we know, the clock is ticking.
17:49:20 There is a date certain on this. So it will be important that and that will that's not coming too soon.
17:49:24 And even with new funding, you can always hire more planning. You can always hire more consultants to do work if you can find them.
17:49:31 The narrow end of the pipe is probably your planning commission and You the council, there's only so many planning commission meetings you're going to have between now and the
end of your periodic update.
17:49:46 I would start counting planning commission meetings and council meetings. That's the narrow end of the pipe. Because there's not that many, you're gonna find when you start
counting and you realize it goes awfully fast.
17:49:58 So it will be the review of the differing the existing regulations, data gathering. The staff reports, you'll be issuing a notice of public hearing, your C put determination.
17:50:09 Toward the end of the processes you're working on these regulations these will be coming into commerce for 60 day notice, you'll ultimately adopting the plans and regulations
and you'll be sending them off to us.
17:50:21 There's one particular part that the review process we talked about. The adoption process.
17:50:33 Here.
17:50:28 There's a practice tip. Couple of really important practice tips here. The first one I want to talk about is the SEPA determination.
17:50:37 On your plan. One of the things I've seen some jurisdictions do in the past that was kind of a trap for the unwary is that when they did when they did an EIS on their plan.
17:50:48 And they adopted alternatives. The 3 alternatives in the plan. One of them was a low-growth alternative.
17:50:56 One grow was a high growth alternative and what is the medium growth alternative? And they spent $500,000.
17:51:02 And they ended up with a conclusion that I growth lots more impacts than a low growth. I could have told you that.
17:51:10 Before he started the process. The practice tip is this. Once you've got your forecast from OFM and I strongly recommend you use the medium forecast, they're actually scary
good at this, is your alternatives.
17:51:24 Should all have the same. Growth capacity. You establish what your growth target is and then the alternatives you look at are alternative means of accommodating the same amount
of growth.
17:51:38 That way you're not arguing about whether you should or shouldn't grow because that's not something we actually can control.
17:51:43 It's more about what are alternative strategies to achieve. How do we want to manage? How do we want to use?
17:51:52 How do we want to shape the growth that's actually having because those you're now focusing your analytical energy on the decisions that are actually in front of you today.
17:51:59 So that's a really critical practice tip. The last practice tip I have and this has to do with The final adoption process, it's really critical that you're final adoption like
the wording of the public hearing announcement and the wording of the adoption ordinance says this is part of the periodic update process and when you finish the periodic update process
and you've taken that last legislative action that you explicitly
17:52:25 state in your ordinance that the update process is complete. That's a really critical part. How am I doing on time?
17:52:34 You're doing great. We have Yeah.
17:52:36 Awesome. Okay, I hope I'm not going too fast. I got a lot of material to cover
17:52:44 Okay.
17:52:42 No, we still have, 40Â min left and just, on your questions and answers.
17:52:55 Okay.
17:52:48 Okay, awesome. So regional coordination. We talked about countywide planning policies. These are some kind of things that are going to be in the regional, the countywide planning
policies, and I mentioned earlier.
17:52:59 This new piece of tribal coordination. So I'm going to talk about next about the growth targets.
17:53:05 And where they come from. So this is what a typical growth target looks like. You've got your medium population forecast, your high.
17:53:13 And you're low. And it's a pretty broad range. The thing to remember is that Every one of these points in here is not really a number.
17:53:22 It's actually really a probability distribution. And, the closer the further away you get.
17:53:30 From the medium forecast. The less probable that outcome is. So Really, if you look at like if you we've done this exercise with a number of counties where you look at what
was the population forecast 20 years ago?
17:53:47 For today. If you look at the OF and medium from 20 years ago. And you look at the population forecast for the like the last reader the last year that actually happened.
17:54:00 And look at the estimate of actual population. They're within one or 2% of OFM medium.
17:54:07 They're actually scary good. It's one of the most counterintuitive things about a forecast.
17:54:12 Is it actually easier to forecast 20 years in the future than it is to forecast 5 years in the future?
17:54:19 Because if you can a forecast when you're looking 5 years in the future, you're really timing the business cycle.
17:54:25 And if I could time the business cycle, man, I'd be rich. I'd be doing something else.
17:54:32 But you know when you're talking about a 20 year forecast A lot of that stuff tends to come out in the wash.
17:54:38 And you're looking at really larger underlying tidal forces like demographics. That are the big drivers and those are those are a lot more predictable.
17:54:48 So 20 year forecasts that you're getting out of OHM are actually pretty good and if you're when you're picking that number.
17:54:55 It's not really a matter of indifference as to where you fall. Where you fall in this in this range your We strongly recommend you go with the OFM medium.
17:55:05 They're they're scary good at this. So here are some of the questions when you're managing forecasts and things.
17:55:12 These are the kind of things you should be asking yourselves about models. Is it answering the question I actually have?
17:55:18 I what are the under unstated assumptions behind those models? What is the foreseeable range?
17:55:25 What is the range of foreseeable results? And What when you're talking about assumptions that you can't control that you're trying to put into your model, which of those assumptions
are the big drivers behind the final result?
17:55:40 What's a load bearing assumption? Other things to manage when you're dealing with forecasts is do that sensitivity test to find out what variables really matter.
17:55:58 Okay.
17:55:49 I would use check in points along the time. To see you know are we coming out fine is it is it is it looking like we got it right I, I would be very skeptical of the long range
impacts of linear decisions.
17:56:04 I would also say favor reversible decisions if it's uncertain. Try to avoid making an irreversible commitment.
17:56:13 On an uncertain on a factor with considerable uncertainty. And if you do have to do so, look for strategies.
17:56:20 You can use to hedge your bets. Those are some of the ways you can better handle.
17:56:25 The sort of the some of the uncertainty inherent in. The use of modeling and forecasting.
17:56:35 So once you've got that, now you've got the process of allocating. The population forecast to the growth target you're going to be.
17:56:44 That will now go out to the individual cities. This is going to drive how you do your land capacity analysis.
17:56:53 This is gonna drive really, the conversation about, What's going into the cities? What's going into the urban growth areas?
17:57:00 Good.
17:57:01 What do we think is, what do we think is an achievable density moving out into the future?
17:57:06 These are some of the things that will go into the sort of the growth strategy part of the process the growth target allocation.
17:57:15 This is a much more complicated Exercise when you're talking about a county that's got 15 or 16 different jurisdictions.
17:57:22 You're fortunate to have less growth to manage and fewer moving parts, but, it's still a fairly complicated process.
17:57:31 And new this year are new for this cycle. Is the housing element. And the housing element requirements have changed significantly.
17:57:37 Yeah.
17:57:40 Rather than simply allocating. Population, you're talking about a regional allocation of housing units and that needs to be sub-split out by income band.
17:57:53 So the process you use is there's there's a model that we've got that we developed.
17:57:59 That will you input your countywide growth target. And then out of that model will come. How that how that shakes out.
17:58:08 Based on income band. So this is the number of very low income households. This is the number of low income households, etc.
17:58:15 And then your allocation between the jurisdictions. Has to be done on. The basis of those income bands.
17:58:25 We have a separate model. That will give you sort of a starting point for what that would look like based on some variables you can select.
17:58:31 But when you're looking at your housing needs analysis, that's what you're, what's really forms the purpose and need behind the housing, what really forms the purpose and need
behind the housing component of your plan.
17:58:42 You're going to be looking at. You're gonna be looking at those. Income band specific housing targets and the difficult I'm sure you've already you're already thinking about
this as well.
17:58:51 Okay.
17:58:53 Hey, we don't. You know, regulate by income band, we regulate by type in density.
17:59:00 So we've got some guidance that helps. You sort of translate. Into unit type and as you might imagine.
17:59:06 New single family detached homes. Really that's only a hundred 20% above and above could afford a new single family detached home.
17:59:15 When you're talking about the lower income bands, you're really talking about a detached product in most of most of Washington.
17:59:22 So. That turns then into the growth strategy that's deformed. That's really defined within your comprehensive plan.
17:59:31 What is our strategy for a company? I knew housing targets. And I talked a lot about housing. I don't want you to lose sight that your plan also has got industrial lands and
commercial lands and working lands that you're that you're managing as well as part of the comprehensive planning process.
17:59:48 I didn't touch on that as much because the laws haven't changed quite a significantly in that front.
17:59:55 As it has on housing. So that's where a lot of the new conversation is gonna be around.
18:00:01 And then that goes into. And then that goes into the comprehensive plan that is really where your growth strategy gets to So this is what a comprehensive plan would look like
you'll see it's got individual elements land use housing capital facilities etc.
18:00:15 There's a future land use map that really defines spatially what the future land use designations are and then if you go and you look into each one of these individual elements,
you'll find a common pattern.
18:00:27 Okay, you've got the goals and policies that vision that we talked about on the way to do a disciplined imagination.
18:00:32 Then you've got the analytical work, the inventories, the analysis. What do we what do we what are the facts on the ground today?
18:00:41 How do those constrain or enable the decisions we might want to make? And then lastly, what are we going to do about it?
18:00:46 The strategies that commitments, the projects that are defined in the plan. And you'll see that.
18:00:51 Throughout there. So for example, the capital facilities plan, it'll talk about an inventory and analysis.
18:00:59 You'll talk about future needs and then you'll talk about both financing and projects and I'm gonna talk a lot about that toward the end of the presentation because that's such
an important part of it.
18:01:09 And then we talk about the strategies toward implementing the plan, the major tools you have again are your capital facilities plan.
18:01:19 Your authority to construct public facilities and your development regulations. So what is the development regulation? Development regulations and those rules and conditions
that you're going to place on development.
18:01:32 As a condition of permit approval. That includes your zoning ordinance, your critical areas ordinance, subdivision regulations, but also in things like the public work standards.
18:01:42 If you're building a subdivision, you've got to build the road, what standard do you build that road to?
18:01:46 The design standards you might have on it for a home. They govern things like setback roof pitch those kind of things and then other regulations clearing and grading for example
all of those constitute development regulations and both what conditions are we going to apply to the permit and when do you need to come in for a permit and how do you go about getting
it?
18:02:07 Now I'm going to talk about capital facilities and transportation. And as we see, there's this process that you go through.
18:02:13 You inventory what you have. You've got the forecast of future need. Which is based on growth.
18:02:20 The location of that growth, which it turns out to be a major driver behind need. The demand, your established level of service.
18:02:37 Okay.
18:02:28 And then you've got your need, your need for not only new growth, but also what do you need to do to maintain the facilities that you have today and are there any existing deficiencies,
those things that are not necessarily driven by growth, but are a need of the system.
18:02:47 Full good example of that would be like the need to implement your ADA, you know. New requirements like phase 2 storm water or American Subabilities Act, facilities that were
not constructed to the standard that you now need to construct them to.
18:03:01 That's an existing deficiency. And then lastly, your financing plan, how are you going to go about financing that?
18:03:09 And then a critical part of the process is this feedback. Okay, if we can't afford it.
18:03:12 Yeah.
18:03:12 If we've run the numbers, we've looked at the financing plan. How can we use our land use authority?
18:03:19 How can we use our growth strategy? How do we use our financial analysis as a feasibility check on our growth strategy and how can we use our land use levers as a way to help
manage the need for new facilities.
18:03:48 Okay.
18:03:35 And this goes back to the question of where to capital facilities come from. And if you're a public works director, one of the most important parts of your job and the thing
that probably keeps you up at night a lot is How do you do financial packaging around individual projects and The work that you've done, the analytical work in the capital facility
plan really helps drive that because it helps.
18:04:00 The project you're building to what is driving the need for that project. And the need for that project, whether it's an existing facility, whether it's coming from new growth.
18:04:10 Whether it's system preservation, that really drives what is an allowable funding source. To pay for that project.
18:04:19 Okay.
18:04:18 If you're building it, the money you might be raising from something like an impact fee. Okay, that has to be spent on projects where new growth is the driver.
18:04:28 And every project is always some combination of these 3. But knowing where the need for the project came from is critical to understanding.
18:04:37 How you can go about financing the project. And the flexibility you have in terms of how you scope and schedule that project.
18:04:46 So now I'm going to talk about one of the fundamental drivers of capital facility man and it's the way you think about the relationship between growth.
18:04:56 And and the need for capital facilities and this is the big driver you don't You don't buy cities.
18:05:03 By the durst by the housing unit. You really buy it by the center of line mile. And I'm going to show you why the size of the footprint.
18:05:13 Of an area is is. Is a bigger driver of your capital facility need, then simply the growth in housing units and why I think it's really critical that you think spatially.
18:05:25 When you're thinking about a capital facility demand. So. This is an area, let's say this is an area that you're planning to add.
18:05:34 To your city or to your urban growth boundary so you know, you're gonna put some houses in it.
18:05:41 This is going to accomplish some of your housing needs. So that's going to need. This looks like a road.
18:05:45 Okay. Hello.
18:05:51 Okay.
18:05:48 It's not just a road though. This line, It's also a proxy for everything else.
18:05:56 So many of capital facilities can be represented in this line. It's not just the street you drive on, it's the sidewalks.
18:06:04 It's also the water, the sewer. And storm water. The stormwater that's coming off that, the water in the sewer mains that are underneath that road.
18:06:14 Okay.
18:06:13 Okay, when you're adding a new line, you're extending a new road, there's stuff underneath it.
18:06:19 Okay.
18:06:23 Okay.
18:06:29 Good.
18:06:19 A lot of the other things that you think about like police and fire and school transportation. The big cost drivers for these are more about response time than they are about
call volume.
18:06:33 It's more about how far the bus has to go, than how many kids they have to pick up.
18:06:38 So these things are actually driven more by center line mile growth than they are by the growth in individual housing units.
18:06:47 And even things like greenhouse gas emissions. And impervious, so total impervious surface, these things are also driven more by the size of the urban footprint.
18:06:56 Then they are by the number of total number of housing units you're accommodating. We've we've run some analysis.
18:07:01 Okay.
18:07:04 And it showed that when you're comparing the the least dense areas to the most dense areas.
18:07:12 The least dense areas are using 25 times more impervious surface. Per capita than the most dense urban areas.
18:07:22 So that really dense part of downtown Seattle that you think is terrible for storm water. That's using a that's creating less impervious surface on a house by house unit on
a house by house basis, then a a large lot semi borough subdivision.
18:07:38 Okay, and that seems counterintuitive when you look at the lot, but you have to think about the tail dragon behind that lot.
18:07:35 Okay. Okay. Wow. Well.
18:07:44 The whole farm to market road system necessary. To serve that lot. That's why impervious surface per capita is or per housing unit is actually substantially lower at higher
densities.
18:08:03 Okay, I'm almost done here.
18:08:00 Dave, we have about 12Â min left. Okay, until 6 20 and they'll allow for questions.
18:08:12 Okay.
18:08:10 Okay, yeah, almost done here. So Now you, let's say you add a new grocery store out on the end of that.
18:08:17 Okay, you're gonna need the roads for that too
18:08:23 Yeah.
18:08:22 The marginal cost of If you add these housing units here, Okay, you're not adding any new roads.
18:08:28 Yeah.
18:08:33 Okay.
18:08:32 So the marginal cost of these new houses is substantially less than the marginal cost of replicating this pattern.
18:08:42 Okay.
18:08:42 Somewhere else. Okay. Cause the roads are already there. Stewer lines are already there.
18:08:50 Oh.
18:08:49 So. You've added those. This is now in. Now, imagine.
18:08:55 Okay.
18:08:56 That big box store closes.
18:09:02 Okay.
18:09:00 You still got these roads. You still have the carrying cost associated with those roads. And there's 2 ways to look at that.
18:09:06 Okay.
18:09:09 One of the ways to look at that is we've got these carrier. This is no longer generating any economic activity.
18:09:12 Okay.
18:09:14 This is no longer really part of our tax base. This is no no longer providing any jobs, but we've still got the carrying costs associated with these roads.
18:09:21 The other way to think about that is this is an opportunity. We now have space. That we've already committed capital facilities to.
18:09:30 We've made a permanent commitment to capital facilities to those areas. How can we get that back in play?
18:09:35 What can we do? To make sure that at this point. New development that occurs in this area. That's That's an opportunity.
18:09:45 Okay.
18:09:48 That's free. Okay, that's an opportunity to get this investment that you've made back in play.
18:09:56 Cool.
18:09:55 So. This is this is another way to look at it. This is some analysis a guy named Joe Mikozi did.
18:10:02 He was looking at Lafayette, Indiana, or I'm sorry, Shreveport, Louisiana, but this analysis would apply a lot of places.
18:10:10 This is just a good heuristic about growth and when you're talking about finance okay and capital facilities is really conversation about finance.
18:10:27 Okay.
18:10:19 It's really critical that you're not just looking at am I growing. The question you need to be asking yourself is, is Is my cost base growing faster than my revenue base or
is my revenue base growing faster than my cost base?
18:10:35 I mean even if I'm growing and even if both of these things are growing, one of them is growing faster than the other and the thing that's going faster is your costs, you've
got a structural problem.
18:10:44 So this is a look at the, this is, this was just. Quick kind of a heuristic.
18:10:50 And it was looking at feet of pipe per capita. And the number of fire hydrants per 1,000 people.
18:11:04 Yeah.
18:10:57 And in 1949 it was 2.4 fire hydrants per 1,000 people. And. Bye, 2,015, it was 21 fire hydrants per 1,000 people.
18:11:10 So you can see that if population represents your tax base. And this represents your cost base. That over time They have been growing their cost base.
18:11:24 Significantly faster than they've been growing their population. And that's why they're going broke.
18:11:30 So when you're thinking about the main thing Main insight I'd like to leave you with is to make sure that when you're doing your capital facilities planning You are thinking
carefully about the long term financial implications of the growth strategy you're working on.
18:11:46 Okay, so. Think like an equity partner. Okay, you're not just a regulator for a development.
18:11:53 You're an equity partner. You're building the facilities maybe even if the developer is paying 100% of the costs.
18:12:00 Which is, almost unachievable. You're still, they're still turning them over to you at the end of the day and you are now permanently on the hook.
18:12:10 For continued maintenance of those facilities and this is adding to your ongoing maintenance obligations. So even a free a free road is not a free lunch.
18:12:21 It is a free puppy That's something that you're going to own. On into the future.
18:12:27 So make sure. You've thought through that. Air fully. So.
18:12:23 Okay. Hmm.
18:12:33 Okay.
18:12:32 Fund the maintenance first. I would say a good heuristic is always work out from the center. Because growth that occurs in the center has a far lower.
18:12:42 Impact per capita than growth out on the edge. Even if you need to do upgrades to accommodate redevelopment.
18:12:52 Favor that upgrade over extension of new lines because if you're upgrading a line you're also zeroing out its service life okay so you're not adding to the total number of pipes
the total number of roads you have to plow okay.
18:13:07 Even if you're making that investment. Even if that investments may be more expensive. Also, location is really important.
18:13:14 Okay.
18:13:14 Especially when you're talking about capital facilities, no matter how good the design is. Location is going to drive everything.
18:13:22 Make sure you're creating those financial feedback loops. In your capital facilities process and make sure you clearly understand your cost structure and what the return on
investment you're making in terms of your growth strategy.
18:13:36 So. Think spatially. Build access and efficiency in upfront and probably one of the most important things we're seeing on GMA is What you say yes to is as important as what
you say no to.
18:13:51 And with that. I'm open for questions.
18:13:56 That's an excellent presentation. I hope you get the slides for that.
18:14:00 Yes, you will have the slides and I've also got a I think this is being recorded and we've got got a video on our website.
18:14:06 Earlier, iteration of this as well. So. I'm open for questions and of course I went really fast and there's a lot to cover there.
18:14:18 And if you don't think your questions today, that's what we're here for.
18:14:19 Matt's gonna be with you throughout the whole process. So we're happy to continue working with you throughout this.
18:14:25 So if you don't think of the question today or if it comes up later. Happy to come back.
18:14:29 Talk to you more about it. But with that, anything that's on your mind?
18:14:33 You know that this minute
18:14:37 So I'd like to hear from Josh and Emma and Mark and John. In thinking about what some of the challenges and opportunities that you see.
18:14:50 In us having to do these updates.
18:14:55 Yeah, what comes to your mind? I mean, he's covering a, you know, kind of a high level overview.
18:15:01 I'm interested in. The details and for example I'll throw out one for the PUD.
18:15:05 I'm concerned with our ability to provide electrical service. To all of the development that's currently in.
18:15:13 The county's plans and zone. Especially in portal, you know, we We're kind of at capacity and those are the kinds of things I wonder about.
18:15:22 Do we have adequate water? In our county for the next 20 years. So I'd love to hear from you guys.
18:15:31 Madam Chair, I suggest that that's a great question and I'm sure all 4 of us would love a bit of an apple thinking about Dave's time and any just don't want One down the clock.
18:15:48 Just question today, which is really how does how do PUDs and electrical services and their infrastructure and words.
18:15:56 Whatever the successful examples of collaboration between counties and cities and their municipal partners like PVs that have a lot of infrastructure and forced to have a lot
of infrastructure.
18:16:06 I think it's very critical. That they're part of the conversation. You need to be asking the questions about their service area.
18:16:16 Which and it's there are a lot of laws governing the service area for public facilities districts that talk about sort of the area in which they have.
18:16:28 Sort of I'm not sure if I'm using the right term, but sort of the right to serve.
18:16:31 This is their area. I think it's also important that you have a clear conversation with them about.
18:16:38 Over the next 20 years understanding your financial constraints. Okay, what can you actually serve if we put the growth in there?
18:16:48 Okay, and more explicitly spatially, the Where are the most cost-effective places for them to serve and where are the least cost effective places to serve?
18:16:59 Rather than taking the plan as it's already been decided and then deciding. Oh my god, how am I going to serve that?
18:17:05 I gotta get a lift station in there. Look at a unit per unit. Area acre by acre thing where are the areas where they think they can provide the service most cost effectively.
18:17:16 That's a very important conversation to have with them. A second thing to think about. Is.
18:17:24 Looking at what what growth patterns are going to be able to make use of existing facilities and which ones are going to require new facilities.
18:17:36 And also try to have some. Some conversations with the with all the players at the table. So you're not, having one conversation with the super provider and a wholly different
conversation with the water provider.
18:17:48 And the last thing I would say to you do is look at try to get more refined about.
18:17:58 What like a water demand is for different housing types. Okay, so. When you're talking about water.
18:18:08 If you're talking about a house on a big lot. Huge amount of that water is going to go.
18:18:14 To watering the lawn. Okay, the marginal. Cost of an 80 U. On that same house.
18:18:26 Okay.
18:18:23 Is not double the original house. Okay, so get really refined about the car about what the per unit demand is.
18:18:33 Of different types of units so that you can start looking at your growth strategy. As a way to manage that rather than.
18:18:42 Thinking about there's no way we can manage it. It's all gonna cost the same. We're, there's nothing we can do about it.
18:18:49 Okay. Make sure you're pulling the levers that you have. That makes sense?
18:18:54 Yes, very much. Thank you.
18:19:02 I'm just curious how average age of infrastructure is, it gets calculated in there with the centrally in miles because they video.
18:19:16 Okay.
18:19:10 Yeah, I think the way to Yeah, the way to think about that is if you add new center line miles, the average age of your existing lines, 20 years from now, is still going to
be 20 years older.
18:19:26 So. Fund maintenance first. If you're going to need to do a take yeah favor That that that average age issue is one of the reasons why it's so critical to start at the center
and work out.
18:19:42 Because if you're upgrading the lines. In the center of your community. You're probably talking about the oldest lines that are in the worst shape.
18:19:51 And you can actually find, I think a lot of, a lot of water engineers will probably tell you, sometimes you can find water by doing maintenance.
18:20:00 Cause a lot of the water that you think you're drinking is actually leaking out of your pipes.
18:20:06 And if you can go back in and. You. Upgrade or replace some of the older pipes.
18:20:15 When you do that, actually building up the capacity of the system, you might actually get some of your water capacity back.
18:20:20 By maintaining by accelerating the maintenance on and this is going to work on the new stuff because it's probably fine.
18:20:29 Start with the old stuff and work up. That means start the center and work out.
18:20:36 Yeah. Yeah. So think about growth as an opportunity. To.
18:20:45 Get redevelopment that will help you. With the replacement of some of that infrastructure.
18:20:32 We have some of the oldest water sewer and street infrastructure state. Wow, well this was the fascinating conversation.
18:21:00 I would love to see this continue on. ICG meetings. They have a round table to continue this discussion.
18:21:08 You meet regular. It is 6 20 and I want to try to keep us. I want, I want to end this meeting at 7.
18:21:20 So with that, I'm going to shorten the next section, 15Â min.
18:21:42 Happy to do that. Thanks for having me.
18:21:36 . Yes How many slides will be very great? Yeah. Thank you.
18:21:50 Alright, so our next item is item 5 and it is next steps, future agenda items. Thinking about our.
18:22:03 Just brainstorming. Okay. Yeah. Well, I think it would be great to talk about just the kinds of things he's bringing up, you know, what are some of the planning issues are in,
are we talking about the next 20 years?
18:22:34 Is that what? Okay. So for each of us to think about. The next 20 years and expensive or issues that we have to collaborate on.
18:22:44 I mean, I wrote down a whole bunch of questions like. The Tri, do we have all the zoning in place?
18:22:50 On that so once it's there we can approve development or does county have to go back. Do you have adequate water?
18:23:00 Thank you about this issue you've got with our power and I'm thinking, well, how expensive is that fix gonna be?
18:23:10 Are we talking about half a million dollar this? A 1 million dollar fix. How many residences does that get us there versus if we spent 2 million dollars in the city.
18:23:24 How many residents, this here? I mean, those are the kinds of things I think we're gonna have to think about because we don't have a little.
18:23:32 I would love to hear more about You know, we learned something every day and then we learned about how it might affect us of the port in the county and the city.
18:23:41 So I'd like to see. Right. I was on the planning, in 1998 when we said those broke targets and Anyway, and we designed the Port HAD LPGA to accommodate the projected growth
in the county at the time.
18:24:07 If I'm wrong, Josh or Joel. But that's what I remember. So here we are at the press of building that sewer where we can now accommodate that growth.
18:24:19 How are we thinking about? That, as a place where we want to invest. How is the If there's gonna be that many more.
18:24:29 Resonances say and have luck. Do we have sufficient power or water? Infrastructure.
18:24:36 More than have that PGA built down. You know, in the question and then in doing the future.
18:24:45 Population projections. It looked like it was, of the graph for Jefferson County. And we have 40,000 people by 2020 So we're planning for another.
18:24:56 So, Where do we want them to go? Are we gonna? Put more, but, and accommodate that.
18:25:05 Growth there or are we gonna spread in between the different so these are all I think really good really good time to be having these conversations.
18:25:14 Because it's not just existential anymore. And how do we want to move forward together?
18:25:23 Yeah, I think that there are some very specific needs in the periodic update that Sydney and County will be doing in the next year that this group could be helpful for and I
realize you might disagree.
18:25:51 But I think it might be interesting to hear there are components of that. But I think it might be interesting to hear there are components of that.
18:25:55 And we, so we have been, not only our country. But I think it might be interesting to hear there are components of that.
18:25:58 And we, so we have been, not you know, and there's been a couple of changes to your management that required that to be done in a more comprehensive way now.
18:26:07 But for kind of resilience and water supply in particular, you know, that's another area where we have to be doing it.
18:26:12 We have to come to our supply in particular. You know, that's another area where we have to be doing it.
18:26:14 We have to come to agreement on the, warehousing is going to go. We have to come to agreement on the, warehousing is going to go.
18:26:17 So, you know, those also need to be public processes but I think there are like I wonder if it's gonna go.
18:26:23 So, you know, there's also need to be public processes, but I think there are like I wonder if we should be identifying where those areas are.
18:26:30 I think they're like, I wonder if we should be identifying where those areas are with ISCG, in on our separate, concurrent Here got our updates.
18:26:34 You don't have to answer that now, but I think that they're, so few of those points might exist.
18:26:42 Okay. Yes, and there's a basic underlying principle in GMA that all our plans are supposed to be consistent.
18:26:52 So I mean, that all our plans are supposed to be consistent. So, in harmony. Doing what we're supposed to.
18:27:01 When is the? 2025.
18:27:11 So we look at just the ICG meetings. 1 8 meetings and wait a minute. So I can see I would just like to suggest that our, route tables, be pertinent towards getting information
from each jurisdiction.
18:27:39 That we need more information. Yeah. Just know that. Going off.
18:27:51 But, what the presenter was talking about, there's a whole series of investment decision points and so the frontal of the most part of the report was when I was discussion and
having these discussions at the ASFGL would probably have the next meeting specifically would be useful as we start rolling down.
18:28:08 Their agenda. What we are going to be doing is set up your savings. And can I add on to that?
18:28:18 I think probably the first step is nested. Things, you know, they go back in time too.
18:28:23 So probably review where we are because we have these, already and yes mostly the growth is planned and for that log and we're towns and but yeah we need to build on it some
periodic update and a lot of planning work that is already Pass.
18:28:37 Whenever we talk about NAS to stand up that the team, the way that this body has sort of, Change the dynamics regionally on partners that need to work either on this.
18:28:47 Of course the staff we have 2 and I'm just thinking about having playing records if we've already done work leading up to this process that wasn't required before the updates.
18:28:57 We, I want to say to running start because you're kind of weeks already. But I think that's part of the context is a lot of what we did already that's part of the context is
a lot of what we did already that we can build on.
18:29:06 Is there anyone online? I'm not sure if I can see, see that can you see, there, and they raise their hand, Okay.
18:29:24 I also like to appreciate that as Ti, we are in a pretty, unique position to have these conversations together in a way that isn't happening in the rest of the state.
18:29:34 I regularly am speaking to city council members across the state. I regularly am speaking to city council members from across the state who do not have.
18:29:40 Good relationships with their other. Jurisdictions. So I learned that we're all at the table together.
18:29:46 That seems like that's gonna drive some better outcomes too. I'm remembering some meetings in 1998.
18:29:59 I just wanna say I like to take you over the strong focus of this group. Right away. Okay.
18:30:11 Hello, now. Because I keep remembering it. Smile. But it's true.
18:30:20 But you said that tiny area. Calls meetings, commissioner meetings, planning, so. We got it end date, 25.
18:30:32 It's like the next 2 ICG meetings is really what I see. We have strongly. To make an impact.
18:30:40 Close to those compl. Hello, I really like the idea. Right now I can't get off.
18:30:55 I'm really excited about the collaboration as well. The possibilities of it. And one of the things Who's a real wake up to follow this job saying, huh?
18:31:07 No, we have enough power for that fiction. More if you want it's like, okay, how do we plan that energy?
18:31:14 Self-sufficiency. If at all possible in everything we do or. Energy management where we're really careful about.
18:31:24 Not just the next 20 years, but far along that we actually. Can through a variety of means achieved the power that we're gonna have.
18:31:44 I think that's a really important thing to look at. Whether it's really codes or places that.
18:31:47 You know there's other density where request and personal. energy management. Yeah, and on an individual level.
18:32:02 And I also don't know. We have a whole sense what our county city court carbon footprint is and how just.
18:32:11 Be mindful of that as we proceed with. With this planning or, you know, whatever. We're gonna open to be like, you know, a lot, for example, open to be like, you know, alive,
for example, she did, you know, in the future here in the bar.
18:32:28 Yeah, so I, we're on, we're on future agenda items. So I get to see the next 2 nicely.
18:32:39 Meeting is used to just that would be really heavily more focused on having the, and our challenges are when they're opportunities are, if that's helpful.
18:32:51 Do you want to give us any specifics on what would be the most helpful. So as I mentioned before the presentation, there was a thing called the Growth Mansion Steering Committee.
18:33:03 So I was just looking at a timeline that actually do the server of the city shared. And I have a copy of the Downingware Planning office.
18:33:09 And 10 of them, but it's 23 pages. So, Oh, back in the day, it was, there were a successory kind of economic policies were developed in a collaborative process between the same
account, public service providers, utilities, but purpose districts and community organizations.
18:33:23 Then there was a steering committee. It was 3, county commissioners, 2 city council members.
18:33:30 And the mayor is a strong American. Anyway, that was back in the nineties and then in 1999 the port was added as a voting member.
18:33:40 It's called the joint.
18:33:43 The stage, and then I'm looking at what it says here, how these are amended.
18:33:50 I know that when I used to work for the county I developed some amendments. One of the red text here is 2,005 for it.
18:33:56 And I think I said, and it was never a top, but we never moved forward on time. Maybe it was at the time, the time wasn't right.
18:34:05 Anyway, it says here that, The growth man is stirring manual service the regional oversight body during development compliance once unincorporated Eujs are identified representation
of the unincorporated UGA will be included.
18:34:16 And then.
18:34:20 Law, the committee reviews, public hearing in front of county. The amendment is agreed to by both the county court and the city council.
18:34:28 Of incorporated UGA. So that would be of course just for Townsend and then the amendment is adopted by the by the port account commissioner.
18:34:35 So there is a process, I figured, to review this. I guess I would suggest, I'm not sure I'm not sure.
18:34:43 I know you counted the meetings of the eye of this body all the way through the middle of 2025 but I'm not sure if there's something that would exclude more meeting.
18:34:52 I guess I would say back on the front loading the question that. Yeah, I'm, I would strongly suggest that we, but know, if this body, which makes a lot of sense based on what
Jeff said about having the service providers be involved in the conversation about.
18:35:08 About planning in 20 years of growth that it's his body would, for example, just essentially become, in 20 years of growth, that it's his body with, for example, just essentially
become a gross man, that it's his body with, for example, just essentially become a, or replace that body.
18:35:17 That could be a decision that we need by, somehow as part of this process. Then I would say that we're right now in the process at the city and county of doing exactly what
data Anderson said about running that checklist in the process.
18:35:29 We've got our consultant starting that process and think you're starting your consultant to do the same thing.
18:35:35 And then we want to bring these checkers for our respective planning commissions. I would suggest that we that you front load several meetings so that we can bring the results
of that to this body.
18:35:46 You could talk about it, you could set the scope of work that Mr. Anderson talked about and then proceed from there and it could mean that you're finding or just adding to your
pocket if you will to make sure that we start the process right and then we'll check back in here you are playing that I think the meetings would be with less frequency and so perhaps
we get to the end when those decisions have to be made.
18:36:10 That's what I'm going to say. So, that's, if we're trying to be timely. And those decisions have to be made. Excellent.
18:36:26 That's, if we're trying to be time leave that, with, and or this step or this, Maybe just starting this as soon as possible is similar because the city really can't.
18:36:40 Do substantial review in our. We know that we need to do a lot of work. So we know that we need to do a lot of work.
18:36:59 So, so we know that we need to do a lot of work. So we know that we need to do a lot of work.
18:37:04 So we know that we need to do a lot of work. And also, about, design standards, so we know that we need to do a lot of work, about, about, design standards, like trying to,
about, design standards, they're trying to, about, design standards, and, about, design standards, like, trying to, capitalize on infill development.
18:37:17 So that speaks to the, You know, maybe. Scribble out a timeline. The series of meetings and when they would need to be in place.
18:37:26 Do you need to meet December or in the wait until January. I've worried that this is a little cumbersome, and I'm not sure, the right representation, terms of numbers in jurisdictions,
but.
18:37:46 So I wonder too, we might consider a, sub committee. Okay, but, I'm not sure if we want to cover it with those challenges we've had in commuting this group even tonight.
18:38:02 That's the challenges we've had and can meeting this group even tonight. It might be worth doing some thought to the logistics.
18:38:05 I know. At 1.90 99. I can see an action that the Growth Management St.
18:38:13 Committee is for reconvene and it's correct the correct membership of the various bodies and then adding a representative of these, and then having a small this steering, you
know, he would be, smart enough, just like I said, And then that body can, for example, report to the larger one here, bring it a, meeting.
18:38:33 Or clerk just reminded me that. To the council members. I didn't get the really obvious.
18:38:50 Need we have is that the coordinated, our system plan, the new, climate resilience element, GMA requires that, Group A.
18:39:06 So. That's another way. We need to figure out how a lot of these jurisdictions are.
18:39:18 Get on that as well. And that gets a lot of supply question. Do we have enough water?
18:39:24 I don't mind running over because this is really, I'm not, really that's so, that we can run it in the brown table.
18:39:38 Go ahead. I wondered if we could use the next meeting to kind of scope these ideas out. And try and throw, you know, big bullet points on the board of what are the, you know,
if you could have some draft timelines, I don't know.
18:39:55 And we could kind of throw our issues up there. Like, Kevin, same, the coordinating water system, plan kind of get them up there and then maybe by the end of that meeting you
could make a decision.
18:40:05 Yeah, this needs a smaller group or yeah this needs more meetings I don't know if that would be worthy Okay, Thank you.
18:40:22 I like to have suggestion. But I really question. I like the idea of keeping, can make it quick.
18:40:32 I like keeping the steering committee. Let's just call again that we already have set up this jurisdictions with some additions because it's been a while.
18:40:42 So each jurisdiction knows don't have representation. So that they do the work, and I was talking about, I think we should be talking about meeting.
18:40:55 Believe me, this is painful for me to say more regularly. Right now because the next. 4 to 6 months, it's probably the power zone to get information to the staff that's working
on the account plan.
18:41:17 If we're going to have confidence done in 25, which we are getting at a conference down in 25, which we are. And then that's my suggestion.
18:41:22 Thank you. Okay. Okay.
18:41:28 Yeah, so this kind of bleeds in a little bit to the next item on the agenda, but I think it's probably germane at this time the way you're discussing.
18:41:35 You know, the quorum issue and is one issue. I think if you're in if you're in a smaller, you know, a, subcommittee or whatever, maybe those type of things won't matter as much.
18:41:47 As far as what a quorum would have to be or not be. But like today, having a quorum for these meetings, the more meetings you schedule, the more problematic it's gonna make
it for some of us to be able to attend and then again that leads into that quorum issue.
18:42:01 So I'm kind of right now I'm just looking that this is going to be a short session of the legislature and even the February meeting right now I think for the PED could be problematic.
18:42:11 So just timing you know if we set this this is kind of like the way we have to stick to the years.
18:42:20 And maybe this is a Carolyn question. If we set these times and maybe this is a Carolyn question, if we set these times and dates, they kind of have to be consistent.
18:42:24 If we set these times and dates, they kind of have to be consistent. Do they not? Are we do we have
18:42:27 You've been set the dates for 2024 and those would be regular meetings and you can of course add more meetings throughout the year and those will be special meetings.
18:42:38 I want to know not everyone has attending the year and those will be special meetings. I want to know not everyone has attending person if it's easier you could attend virtually.
18:42:44 I think the majority of this group likes to attend a person. I think the majority of the group likes to attend a person.
18:42:50 But I'm not sure if attending virtually this group likes to attend in person. But I'm not sure if attending virtually might, make it easier to get a forum.
18:42:56 Yeah, that's kind of where I was going with it.
18:42:52 Each class of chamber. Okay. Well. Thank you, Commissioner Tooper, we can pick different dates.
18:43:04 It doesn't have to be a third Thursday. On the resolution to make regular meetings as well. But we know there's conflict now schedule around.
18:43:13 Yeah. And I say I didn't know if it was made sense to bring this up now or wait until the next item.
18:43:18 So since you were kind of discussing things the way you were, it made sense to bring it up right now maybe.
18:43:22 And can you hear us well?
18:43:25 For the most part, yeah, I've been able to hear everything pretty well.
18:43:29 Props to the court. I like that. Alright, with the seventy- for help. Let me share everything.
18:43:53 I guess what I'm wondering, I can see a parallel track going on here. I would love to see that standing committee.
18:44:00 Reconstitute and pick off is that feels like we've already a tool that we've created with let's say addition to the PG because the period you probably didn't exist when that
was set up.
18:44:12 Let's say addition to the POG because the period you probably didn't exist without setup. What? We weren't doing power. Yeah.
18:44:16 And But if we can kick that off, even if the group as a whole is continuing to work on some of the pieces, I think that's going to be more of a rapid working group and kind
of be able to work with staff and come up with some agenda.
18:44:27 Items that maybe can help kickstart those meetings. So my recommendation is that we do both of those things that we have somewhat more regular meetings for the next 4 to 6 months
and kick off a stair anyway.
18:44:38 I'm here. And I know, none of us need any more meetings, but. Well, it's, we were just whispering about that.
18:44:55 The next meeting is in February, corrected this body. We're planning a join. Order kind of commissioner's planning question meeting in late January.
18:45:04 We're about to negotiate. The grant agreements respectively with commerce for this work. It's not done. We're about to negotiate the grant agreements respectively with commerce
for this work.
18:45:15 It's not done yet, but we're already making progress. And one of the first items that I mentioned, the checklist.
18:45:19 So I'm thinking that by that February meeting would have made progress now to make a meaningful presentation if you want us to do so then.
18:45:25 But meanwhile, we should move on establishing a re-establishing and steering community so that we can jump start that work because one of the first things I know that Joel keeps
reminding me about is, as well as, and, and her staff is that we need to tackle that first population question.
18:45:44 Which we've heard from Dave Anderson, the Management Director of both manager services that the median population is probably the one we should strongly, that the median population
is probably the one we should strongly suggest to go out.
18:45:54 I don't think that's gonna be a state decision unless we wanna aim higher lower than that but then the details are in this particular round has to do with this whole question
of allocating by income bands and that's a whole different thing for us.
18:46:06 So That'll be the next phase of that discussion once we pick a number. So do we need a motion in order to reconstitute that committee or can we just say yes we're going to reconstitute
that community?
18:46:27 There were an action by the county and then asked by the city to add the third party. So I guess I again, I just picked this up.
18:46:36 So I guess I would say look into it, but I imagine it would be similar. So I guess I would say we look into it, but I imagine it would be similar.
18:46:42 Then it'll be an action by the city of the county and in this case an action by the port perhaps to invite a board member. Right.
18:46:47 We just have to speak for before this started. We happen to have a forum right here of all of us bodies.
18:46:59 And if you're gonna like that tour and hasn't been dissolved that's still in effect because sometimes it works or it hasn't been dissolved.
18:47:04 That's still, in effect, because sometimes it works or it's still, in effect, because sometimes it's, it's still, in effect, because sometimes it's, or, you know, city still
has, it's represented.
18:47:07 Kita, I know. All right, well, let's just boards and commissions we divide up.
18:47:12 And I just looked at that so I'm never really. Yes, I know. It is too. I knew. I.
18:47:22 I guess I'm sticking off the top. If this body were to take it, take an action in that regard, then we would, respect to jurisdictions, to see if there's one that had to put
something in front of our.
18:47:26 Our boards to make something in writing essentially to get it going. But In other words, I got an action here to say we want to add this 4 party, the beauty.
18:47:36 What about Joe like, East Jefferson higher rescue like they wouldn't be a natural partner. I think, like, it's a natural partner.
18:47:49 I think, like, it's a little hard off, that we have time for tonight. We have time for tonight.
18:47:52 The districts like, as I, as I read from that opening statement, there were these other community organizations involved.
18:47:57 I guess it was the difference and at that time between the steering committee versus the steering committee's engagement with other partners so that's something else to discuss.
18:48:08 Oh, you mentioned just real quick that this is born out of, it doesn't say you shall be a joint group.
18:48:13 Management. It says the county does not collaborate. So it's kind of an extra.
18:48:18 Okay, allocations and housing allocations specifically. But we don't actually have to do that as part of the, process. Assignment in this twenty-nine. As a county responsibility.
18:48:39 I guess I would say. That could be part of a discussion about a public engagement plan, which is something they've mentioned that as part of this process.
18:48:45 So there's body, for example, or the staring community or we could. Make decisions about how that in the, sort of the way the tool, I want to be, sort of the way the tool, by
which we, And that's something that the city is doing now because we are driving in public participation plan.
18:49:05 How do we engage all of our boards? There are many, how to be engaged with school district and the transit.
18:49:08 . There's 2, you know, all of the and then PV and the port, all those things So, and, and, need to schedule another meeting to, further discuss this.
18:49:22 And, maybe, maybe a meeting early January. I think that it seems like the process is gonna, that's gonna help how long it's gonna take to write them.
18:49:33 I mean, we're gonna have our joint planning commission, the OCC meeting and like January, I think we're still correct man on Josh and my goal for my mom but coming back with
a kind of a plan a path for this group that February would be Okay.
18:49:52 We need to really get started on phase 2 of our conferences plan. Like probably next September.
18:50:00 So phase one is the, all of the inputs. So that's joint. Starting meeting with those inputs and developing our docket for relations.
18:50:24 The statutory obligation is June, 30, 2025. However, we both jurisdictions have applied for this money that's been allocated to us do this work.
18:50:32 And so we set a schedule out in that application. And now we're at the process, at least we are the county, at the stage of turning that into a granted agreement that will be
working into the board and that Congress is offering us.
18:50:46 So in that,, it's when the details all about but clearly as Emma said the it's front loaded on those particular decisions like the public engagement plan, finishing the checklist,
setting the targets.
18:50:58 It's, and then from there, all the pieces come into place. And we know what some of those pieces are that we have to do like the climate. All the pieces come into place. And
we know what some of those pieces are, that we have to do like the climate.
18:51:09 You know, zoom It's almost not like we need, we have Dave Anderson today and we need a card too.
18:51:19 With our logo, like Josh, and what you're explaining. From all the administrators and jurisdiction.
18:51:25 We have 10Â min left. It sounds like it might be, and Carolyn, help me if it's okay to take action, but so could a VOCC and city council each takes their respective action to
not to add another member to the steering pay so that is not the doesn't slow the council each takes their respective action tonight to add another member to the steering pay so that
that is not the doesn't slow down
18:51:46 the the work of the stereotype. Each body has all the special meetings order and there's no.
18:51:56 Each body has all the special meetings order and there's no impact. IT would take action. That's different.
18:51:57 It's regular. You can add and then take comment, but it's a special name for every other agency that has been joining so we couldn't actually do that.
18:52:14 There is the next steps on the agenda so you can go back to your. And there's the next steps on the agenda.
18:52:18 So you could go back to your. The next steps on the agenda. So you could go back to your perspective. For us.
18:52:34 Not necessarily that. I guess I would suggest that maybe the first step is to go back and really understand your process, you know, how the GMAS, the US.
18:52:39 And, the first step is to go back and really understand your process, you know, and then go through that process.
18:52:39 Cause it, it varies. And I, you know, I used to bring experience from a different county where it was foreign to be a litigation in the early GMA days and as an agreement that
is highly contentious, and so there'll be no changing on the fly.
18:52:56 So I don't know how it's formed here, but I don't know how it's formed here, but I've seen lots of.
18:52:57 In the past, so I don't know if you've got, you know, what's on the history books, but I want to start with authority.
18:53:05 Have a smooth use of the And so we have, we have a history here. Go back and. Well, it's very good to say, I think, Aaron, you know, like we're luckily not in that circumstance
here at least by my read.
18:53:21 But I mean, not to, but this is tough stuff that's gonna be tough stuff, even for a group that really likes working together.
18:53:30 So I think that's a good point to go back and do. I'm gonna work. I know what's coming up.
18:53:39 And actually, I mean, really, I think the points were made in by Castle once and others, they chatting in on.
18:53:42 But, It's awesome everybody's here today. It's great. Man, it's hard because you're busy.
18:53:49 I think a smaller group that's nimble and maybe adds one member is got to perse with quick.
18:53:55 And I would say I'd like to hear your point, Commissioner. I go back to when we need to work planning session.
18:54:01 We're planning session. We unpack and some plan as one of those work planners session. We unpack and some plan as one of those work planners for this next year.
18:54:08 And even just doing that with, you know, 7 council members and staff was super complex. And we know a lot more now.
18:54:13 And so I would, great opportunity to get Josh and my teams up doing that same kind of exercise as part of that.
18:54:21 So, and then right here, you have a regular touch point. Josh said, meaningful presentation that caught my ear.
18:54:28 I'd like a meaningful presentation. That's somebody also has the ability to create that plan, like, and to change the plan, right?
18:54:42 Their own process with.
18:54:48 I mean, ultimately, the county condition. In charge of adopting amendments to the Canada planning policies. Pursuant to GMA and this policy itself.
18:55:00 That said though there are these other in theory it says here in agreement with the city. The city council and other members.
18:55:07 So I think that's the spirit of it. But also, he's accounting responsibility. Right.
18:55:15 In terms of how that. So, I think some of the baggage that you're referring to, Aaron is.
18:55:24 I believe that that committee has some authority to be creating. And there was a tribal aspect that's just raised, that's a whole other thing that I don't think That sounds
like we really need to revisit this and continue this discussion.
18:55:48 And we have a lot of questions and we need to take time to start out right. So, I don't know.
18:55:59 To maybe set up another. You guys discuss how we can move forward. But I'm gonna keep us on time.
18:56:10 And so we have, we're gonna skip item 7 which is our last one and we're gonna go right to item 7 which is our last one and we're gonna go right to you.
18:56:25 Yeah.
18:56:28 Let's see, where, I would, I wouldn't move that we should take on a section 2 process, the word.
18:56:42 Each. I don't have section 2, maybe the total 13 number elected, so the majority of those, 7, to be important.
18:56:58 You said that, you, there you go. That's the, the, the, the majority of each of the 4 entities elected official.
18:57:12 I would say if you take out a port is a majority of each of the 4 entities elected official. I would say we take out a port is a majority of the
18:57:15 Hey, each entity doesn't right now. Each entity has to has a quorum, which is that's one of the things that's tripping us up with trying to get a form for this meeting.
18:57:23 But if we had 7 total elected, we would have a quorum. 9. 16, not 6. There's 6 o'clock. Okay.
18:57:40 So yes. That's the Okay. Yes, in section 2, the motion is removing after the word majority.
18:58:17 And then, sorry, removing the word each and of So, would read.
18:58:25 These elected officials. And then in the next after the call, on the, the, Okay. So it's 2 of each in that center.
18:58:42 No, he's only doing it removing the second one after they were to court. Well, but if we just scratch that, which is a majority of each of the governing body.
18:59:06 Oh. You got everything else after. Also, Yes. Wait, are you scratching the entire definition of forum?
18:59:20 No, just which is the majority of the Great, can you read section 2 as you now want to?
18:59:30 To all meetings of the ICD will be subject to the Open Public Meetings Act. Final actions will be taken by consensus.
18:59:35 A quorum is a majority of each. I'm sorry, for is a majority of the 4 entities elected officials.
18:59:43 Meeting procedures will be established. A minute from change. Second. Thank you.
18:59:53 That would bring out that meeting, I guess. Well, I don't, which is the majority.
19:00:07 I don't know. She's going to be taken by Cora, which is a majority.
19:00:16 For entities like that. Yeah, I think that it should show. Yeah. Forum, comma, which is a majority of the 4 entities elected officials.
19:00:30 And then it should be probably a, yeah, and capital and that all other ambiguity though but So.
19:00:38 You'd have to have a positive vote. You know, just the number of people, the majority of those people.
19:00:48 Last year, you mean something else, right? So are you saying we'd have to have 9 guest phones?
19:01:02 If that's not the intentional or not too, there you need to define what it works over and It's not, it's not a quorum that says yes.
19:01:07 It's a majority of the forum, the residents. It's nice having a lawyer. On the the panelists.
19:01:35 Yeah.
19:01:35 Can you hear me? Hello everybody. Good meeting. I would just comment on Greg your proposal.
19:01:45 I like the thought but you know if none of the port commissioners were there you would still have a quorum or you could have a quorum.
19:01:53 Each it's my understanding that at an ICG each of the bodies are opening their own meeting.
19:02:02 So this is actually an official port meeting as well as a city meeting as well as a county meeting as well as a PUD meeting.
19:02:09 I doubt we at the port. Could have something voted on where none of us were there representing the port.
19:02:16 So how does everybody feel about that?
19:02:19 We have a joint special need to improve the resolution and otherwise we probably would have false joint special needs to order with the ICT.
19:02:27 Okay.
19:02:28 Don't we don't we call each meeting to order through each jurisdiction?
19:02:34 That's used to other county design.
19:02:39 Well, So just second one outlines kind of what the scope of the decision making everybody this body has.
19:02:54 ICG and I think it's pretty protective of doing anything beyond. Agreeing, minutes, advocating possibly and sharing things in position.
19:03:03 So.
19:03:05 Perspective. Well other than it's expressing shared opinions and position of the 4 bodies and I guess going back to when this was created.
19:03:15 So make sure he is imagining the scenario. This all of this deals with a scenario where there's disagreement.
19:03:23 So it's the ICG putting out a letter with 4 letterhead saying we are the ICV.
19:03:30 And this is our position on something that you want to add the people outside of the account outside of the community.
19:03:36 And so I know I understand the desire to have less of a forum, but particularly if you don't have consensus, which originally.
19:03:45 Was very intentionally designed to be the majority of each of the bodies. Because without it, you have an ICG that's dragging maybe a Google on that doesn't want to be there
and it's not really The cloud or device, need anymore.
19:04:01 It's now a volume that's breaking the demo. So under that scenario, the original intent is I understood it, like almost all there is.
19:04:08 There would be no weather forthcoming saying this is the ICD and this is what we are. Because we don't.
19:04:14 In that scenario. So I guess I'm just expressing concern that this little switch is to a decision- model that allows for action.
19:04:24 Even though it's only, you know, This does not reflect everybody. I'd like to suggest a little timekeeper and share that this gets moved to our next.
19:04:43 Out of BG meeting. Whenever that is. We can't have to our next FG meeting. Whenever that is.
19:04:50 We can't have a, meeting without this resolution. Yeah. So we need to vote on the, PICG resolution to move forward.
19:05:18 And then we need to vote on the, I wanted like a about this. I think there's 2 problems here and we're trying to solve 2 different problems in the same. But the first is that
we're having trouble getting a quorum.
19:05:27 To convene the meeting and the second is Excellent. A little more decision-making authority to the body as whole.
19:05:36 And I think those are 2 separate problems. And one, I think the the quorum question is relatively easily solved.
19:05:42 The relations are such that we're relatively comfortable being able to hold a meeting even if they don't have a forum of each body for some reason.
19:05:52 But the what I'm hearing the balking at is not wanting to make a decision that binds the group without the form of each body.
19:06:01 So do you hear how those are 2 separate things? And my suggestion, given that we need some language hammered out and maybe, County your city attorney to look at it would be
to table Greg's motion with the sort of intent of the group that we're trying to get some language hammered out and maybe, County or City and Terminator look at it, would need to table
Greg's motion with the sort of intent to the group that
19:06:22 we'
19:06:23 Yeah. can we just approve this now? And if there is a desire to amend it, we do that.
19:06:56 So I would do a joint resolution at Jefferson County, the city of Port Townsend, work work down room and the Dowson County. We're down in the city of Barton and the Dow and
the Dowson County.
19:07:09 For collaborating on this, and the one next step, it's being a whole thing governmental process for collaborating on this.
19:07:19 We're collaborating on that.
19:07:19 Thanks. Alright. So it's not very, and it's causing us to continue to exist.
19:07:23 We're like, But just delete the 2 words, but keeps the final action as a consistent, of all of them, then I think you would the 2 part problem, which is you could meet and you
can't do any final action.
19:07:55 So you can still have an information loan, that we wanted to have. Everybody but you can't vote to do me so that may actually be a solution for the problem.
19:08:08 And that you can still do that. Yeah, If there's no or into these elected officials. But it retains the prior line, which his final actions will be taken by consensus.
19:08:39 Which is a majority of each of the governing bodies. I think you're correct. Let me, yeah, I'd love to live tables.
19:09:11 Can I ask a question before Greg goes forward?
19:09:14 Well, we can we can make the motion. 4 more.
19:09:28 Yeah, when you're saying a majority of 16 would it not be 9 is Greg's not I thought I heard 7 thrown out there so Okay, thank you.
19:09:34 Yes. Okay, Okay.
19:09:44 So, you know, that, for example, I'm asking, you know, we don't have 4 separate resolution.
19:10:04 Yes, we could have. I think this section could use some clarity that it's the
19:10:13 It can be clarified. It's got a lot of comma. We're using them.
19:10:33 But I don't think I could use some clarification. So we stopped tripping on it. Every year we have been with this section.
19:10:39 Okay. So what do we need to do to do? In. Raise it not rescheduling, but scheduling an additional meeting and Would that need to be in 2023?
19:11:15 IT would be really helpful, you know. It's our office that deals with the staffing of the organizing of these meetings.
19:11:20 It's a ton of work for staff and the leg of 30 is not helpful.
19:11:26 Okay. I think that it would be very reasonable to approve this because we are a group that can amend this.
19:11:33 To approve it knowing what it means right now have that first February meeting have it come back to us and do an amendment that I agree.
19:11:43 To agree on exactly as it is and our next meeting first agenda item on us to break. Yeah, we would.
19:11:57 There's nothing wrong. You know, that's, let's, let's go to the, and, put it down by. And, put it down.
19:12:08 And, put it down a part of any steps. I believe the reaction is re-authorizing it.
19:12:12 There's a new authorization. And they're not saying. Well, we're looking for front of the board is a motion to adopt resolution.
19:12:22 We'll fill in the number later that be offr. And so, Well, it's a, Okay.
19:12:50 We have a motion I know to adopt resolution. The resolution of Jefferson County. Now, and, and, and, and, the, collaborating.
19:13:09 I'm sorry. Is there any discussion? All those in page.
19:13:14 Yeah, I'm it's really difficult on the audio. So I'm in the dark.
19:13:23 Are we making any changes to what I'm looking at on the screen or are we going with what we have?
19:13:27 We are going with what we have in the printed resolution and we are just requesting that we take this up again.
19:13:37 Okay. Alright. So I would be a yay.
19:13:36 At our next meeting. Okay. Okay. No, they're just, because the motion passes.
19:13:54 Next part of the part. Alright, so I would welcome. I think we just need. Thank you for the general resolution of Jefferson County.
19:14:01 City of Port Townsend, Florida for Townsend and Jepsen. I mean, public utility, district number one, is that missing a long thing of our next process for collaborating.
19:14:08 I've issue some mutual reports. Second. All right. Then move.
19:14:15 And a second to go through this resolution as presented. All right. Then move. And a second to approve this resolution as presented.
19:14:17 All in. Okay. I'm going to do some mutual. Thanks again. All right. Then move in a second to approve this resolution as presented.
19:14:21 All in favor. Yeah, that the motion. I move to approve the time resolution of Jefferson County in the city of 4 Towns on the border of Port Townsend in Jefferson County Public
Utility District.
19:14:39 Number one, establishing a multi-governmental process. We're collaborating on issues of mutual importance.
19:14:50 Hey.
19:14:51 Thank you. So Dan, I'll entertain a motion. Reauthorizing the ICG.
19:15:05 And I'll just say so moved.
19:15:05 I'm just gonna summarize it that way. Okay. And I'll second it. So all in favor say aye.
19:15:12 Hi.
19:15:12 Hi, the PUD is approved the extension. It really shows the value of And with that, There are.
17:00:32 From ICG Meeting to Dave Andersen - Department of Commerce(Direct Message):
We're establishing quorum and will get started shortly. Thank you!