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HomeMy WebLinkAboutclosed_caption17:39:59 About that. Hello. You can ask them to unmute with the button. So. 17:40:11 Okay, this is Nelson. This is Nelson. Can you hear me? 17:40:12 Okay, there he goes. Yeah, now we can. Did you hear us? 17:40:17 Thank you. I reload. 17:40:20 All right. Okay. So our next our DCD staff update first item is. 17:40:28 Addressing, Brent's notice for a revised outreach proposal. So, Grant, if you can hear us. 17:40:34 I'll turn it over to you. 17:40:37 Thank you. Can you hear me? 17:40:40 Yes. 17:40:42 Perfect. I have provided you, a series of dates for outreach on the. Short term rentals, which are really anything, less than 30 days. 17:40:59 And the twelfth. I have confirmed just today in fact that. It will be available for us at the Cape George Fire Station. 17:41:12 On the thirteenth, I am still waiting for confirmation. Regarding the area and on the fourteenth I will be sending out an email. 17:41:27 Tomorrow for Brennan that there was a question that I have about Brennan is that preferred over and this is a question really directed largely to district 3 commissioners and chair Paul. 17:41:45 If Britain is preferred over coil. The wonderful community center that we did have one meeting at. 17:41:56 Okay. 17:41:55 And I just wanted to open that up for discussion. 17:41:59 Yeah. 17:41:59 Well, this is Richard. It's fine. Coils fine too. I, if the place is available, so it's the cure preference really. 17:42:07 The print is supposed to quell. Okay. No, it's not. But it's as close to ending as to pole. 17:42:21 Okay. 17:42:22 Okay, I refer generally to the planning commissioner because, you know the community which of the 2 do you feel would get more, a greater participation? 17:42:34 Brendan, that's easy. 17:42:37 Okay, then, that answers the question. So we will have that, bring in. 17:42:43 Assuming they have availability on that date. I have requested, but I, I'm pretty sure they will. 17:42:51 In the event they do not I will let you know ASAP. As the next step, as soon as I have confirmation. 17:43:00 I'll be working with our. Coordinates or communications, Coordinator, Wendy Davis. 17:43:11 And will be publicizing those 3 dates in the newspaper of record and also social media. And I would encourage anyone here. 17:43:23 To. Do 2 things. One. 17:43:27 To share information about the the press release that we will have. And then in advance. I am requesting that, You provide any questions that you think would help the community. 17:43:45 And I can just touch base with. You about some of the types of questions. For example, as a community member. 17:43:56 Do you think there should be a cap? A maximum number of rentals in your district. That's one type of question I have. 17:44:07 Are there others that you can? 17:44:13 That should be included in this. That we would put that in the public notice. So that people have an opportunity to think. 17:44:20 At the presentation just to give you a quick overview. I am going to first and foremost, explain the current regulations. 17:44:30 I can't assume that everyone understands what regulations are in place. I'm going to explain the current regulations. 17:44:38 And insofar as I'm able to do that in the press release, I will. At the meeting as well. 17:44:47 I will explain those regulations and then I will. Talk about the questions and that's one of the areas that. 17:45:02 Yeah. 17:44:56 You as a commissioners, the planning commission can weigh in what types of questions. I wanted to open it up for discussion. 17:45:07 Brent, this is Cynthia. I don't know if you can see us. 17:45:12 I can't see you. My questions are around, owners on sites full houses partial residency, you know, residencies, questions along those. 17:45:30 You know, can somebody. Buy a house and turn it in a full house and turn it into an Airbnb and not be on site as an owner. 17:45:42 Can they only you, rent out as a short term rental. Either the 80 or the main house if they're on any other residence 17:45:55 Can they not run out full, homes only a bedroom or a part of, residence questions like that. 17:46:06 Okay, okay. And so some of those are are in. Our code about. 17:46:16 The residency requirement. And so, and so what I will do is I will outline. 17:46:23 That first. Regarding what is. Permissible. And specifically. 17:46:32 Go ahead. 17:46:31 But. We're looking, right? 17:46:35 I'm sorry, I didn't hear you say that one more time. 17:46:38 Changing things so even if it's something that we already outlined that doesn't mean it couldn't be changed in the future. 17:46:45 Right. 17:46:44 Oh, exactly. You exactly. Hit it right on the head. That's why we're going to the community to find out if it's working. 17:46:49 Okay. Thank you. 17:46:59 Are there any other questions? 17:46:58 Bye. Yeah, one more. Here it comes. Are you gonna address? 17:47:05 Non permitted. You said last meeting there was like. I forget how many 100 of these in the calendar. 17:47:17 Only a few that are permitted. Let's less than 200. 17:47:22 What were those numbers, Brent? 17:47:24 Oh, thank you. And so we just had, and I say we, I sat in on a meeting with, Kat, team. 17:47:34 And, a firm known as Granite Kiss. And a granicus does what is known as. 17:47:45 Service for local government And that service. Briefly describe is It identifies. 17:47:56 Those unpermitted uses within the county. And it does, they do also provide not only identification of those unpermitted uses, but they also at the same time. 17:48:14 Have, form letters that they send out. That are used to obtain compliance. And so we're in the process right now of determining whether or not. 17:48:27 The cost for those services is something that we could, bear. 17:48:36 You have a number. 17:48:36 Do you have the? Alright. You have the numbers of how many? What was the total number of? 17:48:51 Yeah, so we had originally, seen about 400. And I'm trying to recall the last number. 17:49:05 Larger number that was, identified as being in existence and that comes from a granicus. 17:49:13 And so we saw a great deviation. We also recognize that some parts, some areas of the community and I've heard I believe that Tom Tears is waiting on this at the border county commissioner's meeting that there are so many unpermitted short term rentals. 17:49:33 That they're not, this traffic problems, the spillover impacts that we address by having a permitting process or not being addressed by, the unpurved users. 17:49:45 And so the question that we have as well, there's a fairly significant cost, for us to retain granicus to do this. 17:49:54 And so, that's gonna be a fiscal question. So that's what I'm sorry. 17:50:00 Go ahead. Yeah, we're a small enough county. Particularly if the policy is difficult for some, but it's having like an and personal approach would be less. 17:50:20 Like I think that 17:50:21 People around here would want to be able to talk to someone. They would want to know what they could do with anything. 17:50:29 Or they would just wanna be talked to. I think you would expect that. Level of service that they're being told to not do something hard to tell people they want to Hold on. 17:50:42 But that's my hunch, right? This is just. Jefferson County. So as part of the problem that We as a county don't have access to the addresses of these. 17:50:54 4 or 500. And they do first somehow? Yeah, this is a really good question. So the way the code enforcement works is we're only We're not going out into the field and identify violations. 17:51:10 So if you, have your neighbor. Of a property that you're seeing lots of people, lots of activities. 17:51:19 You would file complaint and that would initiate. That's the only way that unless and there are instances where we see a life-save. 17:51:33 Unless, and there are instances where we see a life-safe, and I've been in a government where on the life-safe, and I've been in a government where the life safety issue that most often presents itself is the. 17:51:39 They have changed the electrical circuitry. So that there's so much juice. I'm being used that the the attic received a wires to heat up and the causes. 17:51:53 And so those types of things we address, they heat up and be causes. And so those types of things we address. 17:52:02 And so those types of things we address, we're aware. 17:52:10 Utilizing their service. We told Granicus that we didn't want them to give us. 17:52:11 Well, we can't have any firm help. With an RFP because then they have to. 17:52:18 Exclude themselves because of unfair competition. So if you're gonna help the county with sort of the, process of identifying. 17:52:27 Of what's gonna go into the request for the puzzles you can't submit. And so they gave us enough information for us to understand that, wow, we do have a problem. 17:52:37 We do have a huge number of rentals that are not permitted. 2 they also did tell us what services they had. 17:52:45 And one of those services is, they identify because through their, If you remember at the presentation. 17:52:56 I've indicated that. The state of Washington has voluntary agreements with some of these firms like Airbnb. 17:53:04 And, and that means that they will collect taxes on the happy. And so because they're collecting taxes. 17:53:11 By those users of their service, they know, who is or what are the numbers. 17:53:19 You can confirm licensing too, right? Like you have to enter a license number. From your jurisdiction in order to be able to. 17:53:28 Well, this is one of the is that the cities have a business license. The town, and it's sort of uncommon accounts to have a business license. 17:53:43 So for example, if you are renting out every in your poor towns and property. You have a city of poor towns and business life. You have a city of port towns and business license. 17:53:55 And so you pay them, what is it, the city of port towns and business license. And so you pay them, what is it, the B and O tax and so forth. 17:53:58 And so, there's a clear way to identify that. In the calendar, we don't have with it. 17:54:04 And there's no way to deal a license just for a a short campaign. Oh, what we do right now for the short-term, is a kin tool. 17:54:15 I think we're doing well. We have the permit that we. So in that permit, the one thing that we're looking at is that we want to make sure that persons are being put at risk. 17:54:29 We want to make sure that there's proper egress, fire egress, that this problem of smoke and fire detectors. 17:54:36 Just like a hotel, you're renting it out, you're closed in public interest. 17:54:41 So we just wanna make sure that when people are coming here and they're running from an area that they're not at risk. 17:54:46 So one of the ways that we do that is for our fire program is we do an annual inspection. And so that add on annual inspection is what re-ups your permanent. 17:54:59 So, will go once a year and say, oh, this place is fine. Go ahead and run it as much as you want. 17:55:07 But the questions that I'll be posed to the community are slightly different. What we've heard from some other community members is that It is. 17:55:15 You know, our cost now and just looked at the third quarter of 2023. And we have, we are the second least of Florida both county in the state of Washington. 17:55:30 We have the fourth highest. Median price I think it was 658,000 for the third quarter 2023 only 3 other counties are both higher. 17:55:40 And that the reason I mentioned that is that for a person buying home, they may need that income or renting on them that they may need that income. 17:55:47 To cover the cost of the mortals. And so, What, what Joanne, if you remember in that, gender, they have allowed resident occupancy to have no cap. 17:56:05 So if you're living in that building, You can, you could, the county, and this is Shame. 17:56:13 Limit the number of short term rentals that are allowed. Thanks, want to make sure you understand that so it's their understanding that well that's helping. 17:56:28 Maybe someone who's an empty nester or doesn't have a lot of income that's helping them stay in the community. 17:56:33 And so they treat that differently. Then I'm still one who lives in Hong Kong. And it's running out the property may never be there. 17:56:45 And, and we really just, they're just speculating. So they treat that differently than someone who is. 17:56:54 Resident because also they can also limit the spillover. It mats well to the name. 17:57:01 So this So what is, has anybody figured out what the income? From sales tax on those short terminals currently comes into Jefferson County. 17:57:11 Do we know how much it is? So it's sweating. So they did and I'm sure we do and it's gotta be it's gotta come from. 17:57:18 Yeah, the average rate of rental per night was $170 per night was $170 per night. 17:57:26 And so, and that is multiplied against across I thought it was $470 per night was $170 per night. Okay. 17:57:32 And so, and that is multiplied against across. I thought it was $470 per night. Okay. And so, and that it's multiplied against across. 17:57:39 I thought it was 400 and I can Right, so the county is currently is receiving tax revenue. Whatever the 2% or whatever it is off of it. 17:57:48 But we don't know how much the county actually gets of that. Per year. Right. And that's a good question. 17:57:54 And the question is so they're sort of embedded in that is that Airbnb does have that agreement with the state. 17:58:02 I don't know if they do. So there are all these other groups that They haven't entered into that voluntary agreement with the state, there's no tax. 17:58:12 But we should be able to get the number that's been collected from live state. We should be, we should be, do we have any idea what that is? 17:58:19 You know, it's funny that I did have a discussion with the treasurer about this. 17:58:24 And there's a question about disaggregating. And so I will circle back on that and I can and I can make sure that's in a subject report after I communicate with her. 17:58:36 Because I think it was all grouped together. And so, and I can't remember the level of disaggregation. 17:58:44 So I'd have to touch base with trying to get back to you. Yeah, Okay. Okay, so. 17:58:54 How many people, How many of them do they have to when they are? Getting people to go into places I can will see in some black. 17:59:06 Do they, does their hip camp have to leave place or doesn't? I mean. 17:59:11 Register it or does the person who is. Having the campus have to. Thank, thank you for that. 17:59:19 Because this is this is a slightly different example. So and I want to refer back to, I'm back, so, so hipcap, if you remember the report, we have 2 different broad types. 17:59:36 One is short term, in a structure. And that is, There is all air. 17:59:44 And then they're short term rentals without a structure. Okay. Now, when you don't have a structure, that's permitted differently. 17:59:53 We have a conditional use probably. Because you have to check something. There all these other things that a structure has that, structuralist, how does it, so, so that's handled through our conditional use permit. 18:00:13 And so when you get a conditional use permit. If you are the holder of that land. If you sell that land, that conditional use of it runs with that, so that it's permanently there unless you do some type of violation and revoke that right. 18:00:27 Does hip camp though require the people who are they're renting to do that or is it just up to the person? 18:00:36 I mean, there's some pretty old, they do not. That they answer that right. They do not require. 18:00:42 And so, and we haven't any persons that have come to us, those types of requests. 18:00:49 We've had a lot of concern coming out of Marathon about unauthorized. Yes, I don't know if it's hit. 18:01:00 And we've had, we've had code enforcement, actually go into court like this. And it was essentially, without a structure. 18:01:08 Well, I mean, I know I'm a place in Kelsey, and, and, and, there's tent camping, there's, still some cabins. 18:01:18 I mean, hard press to think it was and permitting. Yes, and we would if there was a complaint. 18:01:27 And that's what I said. It's complaint based. There was a complaint. And would go and, give them notice of violation. 18:01:34 And so the complaint process, the way it works just really briefly is that so you, open up, it's under the radar. 18:01:46 We don't know. Until, say, Commissioner Kolker says, this person is doing this loud music parties and they're working it out short term. 18:01:57 You know, that's a complaint. Okay. And so then, we're like Cynthia. I'm sorry. 18:02:05 But once we get that complaint, then we write them a letter first. And that's we give them an opportunity to correct. 18:02:12 So that's what we call the due process. We can't just all of a sudden start. 18:02:18 Apply fine. We let them know. 18:02:21 And we've identified that there's a complaint and based upon our inspection, we've seen evidence of this. 18:02:28 And so we're gonna ask you to comply within a certain amount of time. And if you do not comply within this time, we will charge you $500 a day. 18:02:36 I can't remember. I think I can't remember the exact. And that it's maybe 14 days that they have. 18:02:44 We do that we send their regular letter and we also send a certified So that's the process. Of code enforcement. 18:02:55 I've still no questions, Fred. I didn't understand your answer though about. What granicus services we might have to find money for. 18:03:08 I didn't understand that. So they would identify the properties that are violated. That, I thought you said we couldn't do that. 18:03:20 Yeah, so they would identify that and they didn't explain clearly and it probably was us proprietary they didn't explain clearly and it's probably because it's proprietary. 18:03:31 They didn't explain clearly how they identified. Yeah, keywords on the internet. That's probably it. I'm not exactly sure. 18:03:37 But the data mining, but that's another question. And that is, and we have to go to the board for this change in policy because what they would be doing is it's not complaint based. 18:03:49 Right. So that has to be. Because that's a policy, decided by the board. 18:03:57 So we'd have to also have the board approve a policy change. 18:04:02 So as a follow up, I I find myself. I'm just sensing up When I hear I mean obviously I care about people staying in their houses. 18:04:17 But as a homeowner. I don't get to just do anything. To pay my mortgage, right? 18:04:25 I can't sell heroin out of my house. So I can do illegal things and Anybody in the county can rent long term without any. 18:04:37 Special licensing or anything like that. So. So I guess I tense up because it's not either or either they lose their house or they do something that is short term rental that. 18:04:56 Could very much impact long term rental. Long-term rentals and put it in shirt. I need it to be I hate it when it's put like that like if we don't let short term Reynolds happen then everybody's gonna be honest because they won't be able to take their mortgage. 18:05:18 Not only they're taking watching. But they can't take advantage and you can't say, oh, this is my second home and I need help with my mortgage. 18:05:29 You know, you go to get, you know, well that's up, what, to, the brand, they, so within certain distance, it's 500 feet. 18:05:38 Yeah. The discussion is drifting towards the merits. Short-term housing. I don't think that's what with the topic. 18:05:44 That's good. And so what my question is, is that if you could in the next, I'm gonna hopefully, that if you could in the next, I'm gonna hopefully have this article, go out in the next, I'm gonna hopefully have this article, go out in the newspaper, next week. 18:05:56 So if there are questions that you think would be really good for me to put in that newspaper article. Let me send them to my attention. 18:06:04 I will incorporate those types of questions because it's really helpful to help the community to think so that when they come to the meeting, we're getting a lot of good. 18:06:14 Would you please send the news report message to the sign commissioners as well? Okay, I'll tell you that. 18:06:20 When we're really quick and I know you want to move on, which is. Kinda if I was gonna have the permission to do a short term rental could I only do it as so many months a year or full time, right? 18:06:36 Like the initial idea of, for a particular festival or kind of a short so right now our regulations and correctly from wrong. 18:06:47 But there's no limitation. So if you're getting that. Permanent, you could bring it out the winter and spring anytime you want to. 18:06:56 And, I don't think, and I wish I had sometimes I just have to break the regulations to look at it. 18:07:03 But so so that is there is no time constraint with regards to. They couldn't. Yeah, You're good in this topic now or done? 18:07:18 Yes, so the only the final thing is just those days seem to meet everyone's expectations. We've done meetings at the school. 18:07:38 There's the community center. 18:07:39 In the middle of all of them. You have to deal with choices. Oh, please. Well, I want you as a commissioner to make the choice. 18:07:49 You know the community you're out there. If you feel that cool scenes better than, Britain, I'll select. 18:07:57 I think it is because you pulled Brennan, yeah, and you'll, yeah, okay. 18:08:15 So, first choice. That's what I'll do. Okay. Thank you. 18:08:17 That's what I wanted. 18:08:18 It worked. Okay, and then I had one other item and I don't have See that in the next one or anything? 18:08:28 You have to tell us what it is. I'm not sure it's the, scare across. 18:08:41 So that's, that's, say, that's an odd, later in the, oh, okay, Jacob. 18:08:41 Regular business. Okay. 18:08:58 Okay, so this is just that update. Okay. So we are going 18:09:06 Ahead with the public hearing on those first. Wednesday in March. The sixth, it'll be advertised and it's the the amendments. 18:09:16 The required ones and the optional ones to the flood damage prevention code. Okay, and I gave a presentation on that. 18:09:24 And so now, and I got your input, so we're moving forward with that. Did you see that in the packet? 18:09:34 So that was that was our information transmitted information. Yes. February, 7, 24, update, flood, end, connection. 18:09:46 So it was distributed, but I didn't realize you wanted the, oh, okay, that's fine. 18:09:47 I just want to make sure it's and then what it's also, to have the PowerPoint presentation. 18:09:53 And so yes, that's what we're just moving ahead with. 18:09:58 Okay, so, okay, go where it's 5 meeting in the agenda. Yes, yes. 18:10:07 And I wanted to be forward. By just mentioned a little more background about the email I sent to the planning commission on Monday regarding the housing fund forward. 18:10:20 And just if you had any. Questions for me tonight about that meeting. It's a public meeting. 18:10:27 Is that for Oregon Commons? And the Housing Fund Board requested. That the community. Provide comments in advance of the meeting before noon on Friday. 18:10:40 So I just reiterating that email. That I sent out. Any questions about that? It's about be going over. 18:10:52 Just housing leads assessment and how the new regulations from House Bill 1220 that are. Responsibility for tracking, availability in different in. 18:11:09 When we see the agenda, we'll be coming back. Okay, . We did a We have had requests from the several planning commissioners for a hard copy of the comprehensive plan. 18:11:21 And so we sent that out to bid for, to printeries what it would cost to print the existing plan for in black and white. 18:11:31 Plan is about 500 pages and the kids came back out $450 plus for printing costs for each copy. 18:11:50 We would print out sections that were discussing. At the times that it's on your agenda. And, we are improving the access to the comprehensive plan on the website with updating the community development's web page so that you can click there directly. 18:12:10 Right now you could get to it from the Gotti's web page. But in the search box company, it's a plan and you can bring it up. 18:12:18 But I think you've probably all been there. Okay. 18:12:23 I sent out an email today. I don't know if you saw it, but the link on the web page on the, the plan web page, it just takes you to all of the files in our. 18:12:36 Community development. Yeah, perhaps we could speak at afterwards. I have some specific information to give you regarding that. 18:12:47 Okay, and the request also was that once we get a real link, it would be great to have that link to the pump plan on the planning. 18:12:54 I'm not left. 18:12:58 Okay, thank you. I'm sorry we can't distribute our copies, but, it's just. 18:13:04 That's. And their last item is just letting you know about upcoming meetings. We plan to have a meeting February, 20 first. 18:13:11 To continue comprehensive planning topics. If we can bring some right information to you. Otherwise, There may be a question about. 18:13:24 Holding February 21 but Nobody assumption we're having a meeting. We're still developing the agenda. 18:13:32 For the 20 first and we don't have. Enough today for the 20 first but we're working. 18:13:39 What's the deadline for? Site specific amendments what is the date? Site specific amendments are due March first. 18:13:49 Works first, along with, if the public add a suggestive text, it's saying, like, so we're gonna be pulling together the, about a pre-application conference which is a requirement for submitting. 18:14:02 Site specific amendment that's going on next week and have some other interest as well. So we're gonna be compiling that after March first and bringing a summary to the March sixth meeting. 18:14:14 Which brings me to the second. Point here in our upcoming meetings. March sixth, scheduled Randy Barks from Public Environmental Health, which is going to go through everything about septic and water that we've under and wondered about. 18:14:30 In regard to what you can do on property, your housing or number of houses. And so I've already prompted him with questions that we've asked ourselves about development. 18:14:46 So you'll be ready to answer like a question. March sixth also Brent was gonna bring forward The public hearings on Development. 18:14:59 Blood hazard. Code changes that you've seen the line in line out more. 18:15:05 So that'll be part of that meeting. So March 6 would be a hearing and Brandy bars. 18:15:15 That's all for DCD staff updates. Thank you. Our next agenda item, our public comments, anybody here is anybody online who would like to take a comment. 18:15:29 Perhaps Jesse Thomas has a comment. 18:15:32 Yeah, I'd like to comment. Can you hear me? 18:15:34 Yes. Yeah. 18:15:35 Oh, hi. Okay, great. I thought maybe I missed the comment period. 18:15:40 Okay. 18:15:43 So yeah, this, I'm, I don't have a well prepared statement because it's kind of really, last minute I discovered that there was planning commission tonight. 18:15:52 But I just wanna. You know, inform everybody that. That Olympic housing trust and the Jefferson Land Trust, have entered an agreement to develop the land or at least to explore a concept on the land at Chimackham Common or Chimicon Crossroads. 18:16:12 It's land that sits back behind like the first for houses. Just to the north of Roddy Drive when you go through Chimicum. 18:16:20 And I just want to, you know we were ourselves we don't have the probably don't have the resources to put forward through any code changes in the cycle, but. 18:16:31 It's, I was actually really surprised to see that the playing commission has been working in a direction that's really kind of parallel to what we're wanna propose. 18:16:40 In Chemicum. The, and I'm, I think I'm looking at some maybe some old text, but. 18:16:50 That was prepared last year. March fifteenth, but, I think the general idea is the direction we want to go, which includes, a housing concepts. 18:17:01 Some kind of PR RRD style. Overlay district with the performance standards. And we want, yes, definitely we need, we need a re, review of the farm worker housing. 18:17:18 Laws, specifically the definition of farm worker housing. And then The, and also, you know, a little something about. 18:17:31 Affordable housing in there too. Would be nice because you know, like if you look at the development out there, it's we have about 16 acres. 18:17:42 And if you consider 2020% bonus. 2 density for affordable housing or for innovative development for that matter. 18:17:53 It actually doesn't give you much. Because, it's. You know, what is 20% of You know, 16 acres is is roughly 3. 18:18:07 It's equivalent to 3 rows, rural residential 5 acre parcels, right? So if you if you're getting if you're looking at 20% bonus density, it actually doesn't give you a whole unit. 18:18:20 So. 18:18:21 I'll interrupt you. I apologize. Our public comment period are limited to 3 min comments if you could please your comment. 18:18:27 Okay. Yeah, no problem. Yeah, so I guess that's it. I'm just proposing that that this our plan for Chima Commons is kind of running parallel to what you guys are doing. 18:18:41 So, any, feedback that you can give me, how we can get involved, and any guys, and, and I just, you know, you know, we'll provide all the support we can for you guys to draft of something that can be implemented on project. 18:18:56 This would be a pilot project that's going underway right now. So. Let's keep in touch. 18:19:01 Thank you. 18:19:07 George or anybody else online that I've seen? No, sir. Okay, that will close. 18:19:20 Period. We will move to item 7. We have to get the information. Goal in the past for consent agenda is we needed. 18:19:25 You mentioned action. Do we need to, to accept these, Okay, then we have thank you. 18:19:32 I don't know. So we'll proceed to regular business item 8. Let's follow up from the Plan Commission retreat. 18:19:40 Yes, Want to point your attention to the agenda where we. Implemented some of your ideas about. 18:19:50 How to present our regular business. So we're providing a synopsis. And we can we can modify this to fit your needs, but it is an overview of what this agenda item was about. 18:20:02 And then, an assignment, any assignments that you have. To prepare for this agenda item for that meeting where the regular business should be addressed. 18:20:13 And then, listing any options or decisions that are going to be made regarding that. A. 18:20:18 So, that's, Follow it one year on feedback from the Planning Commission retreat. 18:20:26 And. We also want to discuss. This idea that we address at the planning commission retreat about working together on the large volume of work that we anticipate having forward to the planning commission with the periodic regime. 18:20:44 So. Initially, just before our retreat, we had a bad weather day and this center was closed to frozen pipes and we sent out an email that the planning commission meeting is going to be virtual. 18:21:01 There was the thought that. Wow, I hope everyone gets the meeting announcement. Someone might show up. 18:21:09 And we posted on the door that the meeting is not going to happen. So the thought on that in that respect was. 18:21:18 About a phone tree and we discussed that a little bit at the planet commission retreat. There are 3 of you within each district. 18:21:26 And the question was, are you? Keeping each other informed. Could you make a habit of Thank you, taking care of your other district partners and being sure they receive the information. 18:21:39 Or if it were an emergency phone tree. We might think of something more sophisticated. Among all 9 people. 18:21:50 Contacting you with information. So then we, with that aside, We were thinking about these work groups. 18:22:02 Identifying opportunities within your district. Maybe there is a festival or an event where You call up your fellow planning commissioners for that district and say, hey, we would wanna go attend and represent. 18:22:15 Or hey, you're going there. I'm gonna go over here and talk to this community. 18:22:19 So there is that idea that some sort of internal communication among you would be helpful in your motivation and your memories for what's happening when. 18:22:31 Access to information what's going on in your districts. So putting that out there as an idea of how you could work together. 18:22:40 We do have a question about, how can we do this without violating the open public meetings act? 18:22:48 And so in your package, you got a couple of articles about. The issue, but the problem is you 3 of you meet in a district and then maybe one representative from that district goes over and. 18:22:59 Talks to 3 people who met in that district, we've tied together a conversation among a forum of planning commission. 18:23:11 Many of you have already heard about these serial meetings or walking meetings. And how our Washington Open Public Meetings Act is really frowned. 18:23:23 But elsewhere in the nation too. I think every jurisdiction has this the same issue. So. 18:23:31 This discussion, is to bring any questions that you have about serial meetings. And how it might. Pertain to how we were talking about working together. 18:23:42 And. And provide staff with some information about what are you thinking about working together as a planning commission outside of. 18:23:54 Regular business in communicating with each other within your districts. Has that been utilized? Is it an opportunity? 18:24:07 Maybe a planning commission buddy that you share some of the workload with and reviewing something that might be hard to understand. 18:24:13 That kind of opportunity. So I'll leave now the floor open to questions about this. Follow up. 18:24:23 With our plan integration retreat. To see how it might carefully move forward on that idea without violating. 18:24:35 About this. I'm very uncomfortable with, commissioners interacting outside of a phone meeting. 18:24:42 I think that the chances of bringing follow the open meetings act is pretty high. They by inadvertent actions. 18:24:50 And I think we should stay where we are now. 18:24:57 I'm gonna let the chair answer. So. My confusion about that is right now as long as we don't have a quorum, we can meet, we're allowed to. 18:25:11 And, so that, less than one would be 4. And I don't think it was, but I don't think I can't think of the time unless we were having a subcommittee meeting that we have ever done that. 18:25:29 Yeah, I understand the serial meeting issue and I do, you know. Well, 15 years now. 18:25:39 We cross paths at events. And And I don't. I would not want to organize, you know, all my district and all that. We go to different things. 18:25:56 We have different interests and we bring that back and that's why we have our you know at the very beginning the meeting by the commission announcement you know like I'm mentioning the home show I'm sure enough with my get there is you know okay one of us needs to bow out you know and we've done that I remember Egyptian county picnic one year it was like Several of us who know 7 in the 18:26:14 pavilion is 50, you know what? I need to get over there. Just, you know, trying to be aware of it. 18:26:20 I would. I would hate for then to get tripped up because 3 of us are having to get together. 18:26:29 And again, subcommittees, we very specifically. 18:26:34 The number. 18:26:37 Up for that reason. And then we bring back whatever we discuss at the meeting, whether it's stop lines for housing. 18:26:40 You know, we do have that buddy system on the subcommunities. We do check this like, you know, whoever's on there, it's, you know, we do, whoever's on there, you know, we do relay. I don't think there's a problem. 18:26:53 I guess I'm trying to understand. Yeah, like it's so we've got a clear message now about the trepidation of having these. 18:27:00 Extemporaneous contacts or outside of a meeting. But, I guess one of our concerns as staff is we want to be sure you get your work done before you show up at this. 18:27:11 When you have a particular assignment for the meeting. And so thinking about, you know, consideration of some. 18:27:19 May. Have more background on a particular topic and can that person help another who's struggling with that topic understanding? 18:27:30 That could reflect on staff and needing to provide a better. Staff report so you understand it at the same level. 18:27:37 But that was one concern. Is how can we? 18:27:41 Advance the participation at the meeting with more preparation. The other thing is motivation. Helping each other stay on track with. 18:27:53 Showing up the meetings. Staying engaged. There's something I'm trying to get to that I had a moment ago by slipping my mind now The, so that it's true, you don't. 18:28:09 Meeting together with someone does not create a However, what happens after that meeting could create a rolling forward. 18:28:22 And I think you're all aware of that. 18:28:23 Questions about. The another question way to look at this is Do we need a ad hoc committee for doing comprehensive plan work? 18:28:33 We might wait till we come up with that need. Have a particular topic that's gonna require a lot of. 18:28:41 Okay, maybe create a subcommunity, but we can have up to 4 people on a 18:28:50 And I was just gonna say, through the chair. Yeah. Point where there would be a violation. 18:28:59 Would be so for example that with one member of that where to interact with another planning commissioner outside of. 18:29:12 That and not in this room, not at the and talk about. That's where So that means that for each of those individuals in that. 18:29:26 Or that we cannot talk to the Commission outside of. Individually. George, So what advantage the 3 of our subcommittee is. 18:29:43 We can always to next board. And for a phone tree, I would suggest. That's the chair. 18:29:57 I don't have to make full calls because that's only a couple of people. Right? Usually everybody calls like a dozen people. 18:30:05 So we only have 9 here. I think we could manage that. Like if that happens again and I know that it looks my duty to do it. 18:30:16 We'll figure out the call, Oh, Good plan. Okay. Institutionalized that operation line that, 3, am, some, emergency, the chair, vice chair, have the expectation of letting all of you know. 18:30:35 Yes. Can I say one more thing about the serialized meetings? I just have found this planning to be commissioned to be so careful about this. 18:30:44 I just really I do not see that unless you know something I don't. This is not an issue I've ever, I've always known every single person to be careful. 18:30:55 And conscientious people ask for help, you know, I've gotten calls for people who are like, I'm confused. 18:31:02 But I just, It's, I don't, I guess I don't understand. Are, are we trying to, Cause I don't think there is a problem. 18:31:13 We are very careful. I agree. I agree. And this topic is not about Open Public Meetings at work serial. 18:31:23 The topic is about Planning Commission working. And being a working commissioner. Our suggestion was that you work together and somehow partner up or help each other get the work done. 18:31:35 The side issue was well, better watch out plan. So we're just mentioning. Thank you. 18:31:41 The big issue is how do we. Move a large volume port through the planet condition about just add one or 2 during the heavy bit. 18:31:48 Cool. And in the past, you're, you are unfortunately correct. That the planning commissioner is coming to these meetings unprepared. 18:31:57 And it's really attracted from the effectiveness of the meetings. Lately I haven't seen that as much. 18:32:05 And I'm hoping that that it will not be a problem. Yeah, One thing that's helped out is the DCD is now providing staff providing the information to Entertain. 18:32:20 I usually tried before. Which is very helpful. Yeah. And there there was years, there were, 6 months, 9 months, 12 months without meeting. 18:32:33 And 6 months, 9 months, 12 months without meeting. And so, so all the links are working better. 18:32:37 I think the, lot better. I think the commissioners are dedicated to coming prepared because they, Our work is going to be 3 full. 18:32:44 So perhaps we'll just try and do a job. Alright, unsaid. So, so these are our responses to you, to the planning commission, you'll see our responses to you, to the planning commission retrieved. 18:32:59 Also, you'll see our minutes template has been updated. And doing some web improvements which are underway. 18:33:02 So, being responsive and let us know. It can run into trouble. Would follow up on the retreat. 18:33:25 The retreat ended and we didn't, reiterate, I mean, I did after whenever that was in January February that first year that we had we discussed that we wanted to have our retreats in the fall kind of first thing after summer. 18:33:33 And I know this here. There was a lot was going on and a lot wasn't going on and that didn't happen, but I would like to keep that as the goal. 18:33:43 So the next this year at the beginning of the ball, after summer. That we have that retreat so we're setting out our work for the year. 18:33:55 With originally. Yeah, and we intend to bring it back to September this year. It's just, 23 was impossible. 18:34:04 To me. We're trying to get a time before October and too many things. I mean, 18:34:14 Okay, go ahead. And I just wanted to make sure everyone remember, the reason, for that time, waiting for the budget adoption process. 18:34:28 So if there are any things that comes forward, Yeah, moving forward that might have a budget. 18:34:39 That. Yeah, and works plan as well, yeah. 18:34:46 Yeah, and then ask the time also when, cycles get shipped over to the board of commissioners. 18:34:55 September is when we have our staff report done. And the last planning commission here. And so that's kind of the timing. 18:35:03 The moral debates. Okay. And we've concluded that. Sounds good. 18:35:13 But we're not. Okay. So I'm going to bring up our point that. Is that I'm going to go through some of. 18:35:24 Our comprehensive plan. Product review update. Report out what we've been working on. And then what we're going to. 18:35:32 Land on that is the division statement. Have some in depth discussion about. And how it fits in. With beginnings this update product project. 18:35:52 So, I, I miss typed Brent's discussion. It was short term rentals and I put up flood damage. 18:36:02 I was a little confused this evening about. How that, okay, so item 8 we've finished item 9 now. 18:36:09 We probably don't need an hour. Or item 9, we do have just under an hour, let's see I'm needed. 18:36:16 So just a 20 min update on what we've been doing with. Girl management and then we'll have a vision statement. 18:36:25 Review for about 40 min. Does that sound good? I think you're, Okay. So what. 18:36:39 We've been doing is getting the. 18:36:47 Yes, but I think we need to move them to. 18:36:48 Oh, okay. We're reconvening or re-establishing the growth management steering committee. 18:36:50 And as you may know, there are 2 main things that this growth management steering community is going to be doing. 18:36:57 For a periodic review, we the county worked with the other jurisdictions meeting for Townsend City in establishing our population projections upon which our comprehensive plan is based. 18:37:12 And also at that time we review our countywide planning policies. And growth management act. Goes into explaining those. 18:37:21 Coming slide here. So we went to the board account commissioners. We reconvene the growth management steering committee. 18:37:29 We passed the resolution to get it started. We have a little bit different composition of both management steering committee this time around. 18:37:41 Jefferson County, city board towns and ported 4 towns and and representative of Port Hadlock is normal from where we were before. 18:37:51 We're adding a South County representative. And at the request of the commissioners, we don't know yet who some of these people will be. 18:37:58 And then according to the legislation, the House Bill 1717. We are, process for the tribes to participate in a countywide planning policy. 18:38:12 There was a question about how we're going to group and move through. Projects or packets of work through our periodic update. 18:38:22 We have our 2024 annual amendment cycle. That we're doing now. That'll take us through December. 18:38:26 We have a lot of work we need to do before the Update is due June of 2025. 18:38:33 That leaves us short a few months to do another annual cycle. And of course, GMA says you didn't modify your copy. 18:38:41 It's a plan no more than one time per year. So as we've done the past, we passed a resolution with board. 18:38:47 To defer our 2025 annual cycle during our periodic review. And, you'll see, from staff, a UDC proposal to update this so we don't have to do these resolutions that would just say. 18:39:02 Within a periodic update, we don't do that second. Annual cycle. So we'll run that. D. Later. 18:39:10 Next slide. So, I just put up some polymer information. About population and growth rates. 18:39:18 Just to prime your thoughts. This is how we start our periodic review. Looking at, 2,023 or 2020 to 2023 data. 18:39:29 From Office of Financial Management. 4 towns and grew by a hundred 82 people over the last 3 years with 1.7. 18:39:40 Percent change. There are also in, I'm not, deal with the density right now. 18:39:49 That's for later off. Or towns is at 10,330. The county, we breed by 448 people in the last 3 years. 18:39:57 1.3 6% change. Then we're now countywide at 3 33,425. 18:40:03 I remember when we just turned. 30,000 years ago. So anyway, If we're choosing our mid-series population projections from the state office of financial management, the 20 year projected increase with 2,025 to 2,045. 18:40:26 Our planning number would be 5,900 people. That gives you an idea that. No, we did have just do a comprehensive plan update. 18:40:35 2018 so we're kind of getting on another cycle of 10 year intervals and so they threw us in with the 2,025 prow. 18:40:44 And so we don't have to. A large increase of people that we have new things to address. 18:40:53 Particularly with housing and there's a lot more data to develop and We're not only talking about allocating this population, 5,900 people to different. 18:41:05 City, county, rural urban, but we're allocating housing. As well. So it's a another level of complexity. 18:41:15 So we have this new housing needs assessment. And with our 5,900 people. Projected increase. 18:41:24 Over 20 years. We, Congress has put out a It's an Excel workbook that does formulas and. 18:41:33 Looking at our projected population and what our total housing needs might be, minute splits up from other data sources from the county. 18:41:42 How much is in different housing categories? Permanent supported housing. Thank you. Yeah, I thought we were getting a little sleepy before, so I turned on the line. Yeah. 18:41:57 So we have some categories of, permanent support. Yeah. So we have some categories of, supported housing or, extremely low income housing from 0 to 15%. 18:42:08 And, in these categories, I don't have these. But up to 50 to 80 and 80 to the 120 and so we need to look at how many. 18:42:19 Homes were allocated for these different income banks. So we're also looking at the average household size and. 18:42:28 Putting that in our calculus. Will be looking at our HUD income limits that are capping specific below very low and extremely low. 18:42:38 Income levels and looking at that for our implementation strategies. So all this is spelled out in this RCW. 18:42:48 36 78. 5 40. That's what these amendments have been made. So, I can go take a look if you're curious. 18:43:00 Countywide planning policies, the second large task of the growth management steering committee. This, done between the county and the cities. 18:43:08 I considering the county as a regional government in its style of working with all the cities. In our case, just one city. 18:43:16 So. We will adopt that with the corporation. That with the input from the other Goal National Steering Committee members. 18:43:26 And also, as you may be aware, during COVID the different jurisdictions developed. Intergovernmental collaboration group or ICG. 18:43:38 Which is, the port PUD, city County. And some. Other entities that we're going to review. 18:43:46 We're going to pass these along the Girls Manager. So let me start again. The Growth Management Steering Committee is going to be sharing our results with the ICG. So. 18:43:58 We have kind of another level of review. 18:44:02 Next slide. And you could look at these policies. In. 18:44:10 GMA, but generally. They have to address UGAs, capital facilities, transportation, affordable housing. 18:44:17 Oh, we're going to plan our growth boundaries. Doing fiscal analysis and look at travel 18:44:34 So every growth area, we have a population and dwelling in it holding capacity analysis we do to see if our. 18:44:41 Current zoning and size of the EGA can accommodate the allocated population. So that is working in tandem with the growth management steering committee's allocation. 18:44:51 Yes. We're also looking at the UDC, Unified Development Code for 80 housing barriers. 18:44:58 And so, Brent and Mochi Lindblad, our senior planner and myself or talking recently about. 18:45:06 The Mason Street project that habitat for humanity is doing. This is an example where this project we want to be sure we don't have any. 18:45:15 Bigged in barriers with our zoning or development calls. So. That will be considered. Yeah, our little housing grant that we received looking at our. 18:45:27 Regulations. We're also talking to Port Townsend about UGA boundaries with the new UGA swap capabilities that Legislature has passed where you can swap out some egg lands within the UGA. 18:45:44 And and add some non egg lance outside. Current boundaries. Land swaps, we'll get into more detail and subsequent. 18:45:55 Also talking about how we can provide better services to. As well brown village. Part of playing home with more on that later just to be mentioned that these topics are coming up. 18:46:13 Right. On that later, just to be mentioned that these topics are coming up. Right. And I just wanted to share that we did apply for 5 point And, we learn from. 18:46:19 State, the department. One of our brands. And, and, for that sector, the community that's passed on that. 18:46:35 That's part of the city. And so we do have this MGA spot then that we have a part of the city. 18:46:44 That is characterized by. Farms and so That should be part of And so the swaps would be essentially. 18:46:58 The, bring it into the cabinet. And then take the affordable. Emergency and transition plans. Make that part silly. 18:47:06 So you can have in hold it either. We're opening the book on some things that haven't been talked about since our first compound. 18:47:22 We're opening the book on some things that haven't been talked about since our first compound. But we're opening the book on some things that haven't been talked about since our first compound. 18:47:24 I'm from. 97. So it's gonna be interesting and, exciting. 18:47:26 So we're packaging our work for the barks first, amendment proposal, so, The thought is to will be packaging the site specific or zoning amendment proposals that we get from the public. 18:47:37 Will be creating. Proposal cases. Case numbers or signing of, discrete. Case to our comprehensive plan area overview and break out. 18:47:53 Breakout UGA specific word. And then at the end, it's kind of covered up here. 18:47:59 The bottom of the slide. Reminds us we're bringing forward the planning commission 2023 housing proposals as as another proposed amendment package that we're going to be considering. 18:48:14 Okay, so we're shifting gears now. For, some of the early out work that we do for comprehensive plan periodic review is the, talking about our vision. 18:48:26 And this comes from. Growth Management Act. It's not a directive that we have a circumvision statement and our topic is the plan. 18:48:36 But it comes from RCW. 30 1 one so it's pretty early in the legislation and I've shared this with you before it's probably in 2,017 when we were 2016 when we're dealing with this. 18:48:52 They start out with legislative findings about rural lands. To put into GMA. And, It's got a small credit. 18:49:04 It's finally the legislature binds that in dividing its world element. The county should foster land use patterns develop a local vision of real character. 18:49:11 That will do certain things, which next slide I've made it the bigger. Bigger text here. So they're saying the county should develop a vision about a world based economics or traditional real lifestyle. 18:49:24 Economic prosperity, real based employment, agriculture. Consistency with other parts of our plan, fishing wildlife, open space, stewardship, and rural sense of community and quality of life. 18:49:37 So that's what was put into your comprehensive plan vision statement last time. And, 18:49:45 That's the end of the slides, but that's just preparation for our discussion about. 18:49:53 If we want to review the vision statement that we've already I have in our comprehensive plan. How could we take a look with fresh eyes at what's been done. 18:50:06 Without, and here's kind of the different moving parts without creating a process that's going to take us down the road a few months. 18:50:15 We think we'd really like to finish this in by the end of March. If we do an update to our vision statement. 18:50:24 And looking at the vision statement as it is now. How can we? 18:50:32 Add some more authenticity to where we are in the county. Today and. Not being. 18:50:41 Well, the vision is aspirational, but. Could we add some elements of how we see ourselves getting. 18:50:51 So, 2045. Or perhaps the way it's written is acceptable. So. 18:50:59 Cool. All right. I, and I, I mean, stop guys and thoughts about this too. The planning commission at 6 5 or 6 years ago was a substantial amount of effort. 18:51:11 Integrating the document that you have. Hopefully, and everybody had a chance to see it since it was in our package. 18:51:18 Yeah, and it's fairly. Comprehensive document. It may be that We don't need to rewrite it. 18:51:31 It might. 18:51:34 Hope here would be that we would review the extended we have. And then come to the next meeting. 18:51:42 With with specific Suggestions for change. Or you've already looked at it, you have specific, we have that meeting right now, but I think that we all haven't had a serious thought. 18:51:55 I, I would like to see this done in one or 2 meetings. I don't see the reason they should drag on. 18:52:01 We have a good good structure document here. We can update it. Joel, if you'd have some specific items that you would like to see changed. 18:52:09 But we can take take advantage consideration as well. But we do have as an assignment for tonight was to bring revisions to the vision statement. 18:52:17 As needed for discussion. Shall we? Have a week given ourselves the opportunity tonight too. And people waiting forward there. 18:52:29 Review? Well, let me ask is, well, Jiffy says no, she doesn't feel comfortable doing that today. 18:52:38 Mike looks like he hasn't had a chance. George, we spend a lot of time on Lasco around. 18:52:49 I couldn't think of anything necessarily that I would add. You know, to it or anything. I'm certainly happy looking at it. 18:52:57 I didn't know if there was anything that. Based on RCW requirements that we were missing. 18:53:05 Or ought to have included. I know we're talking about tribal element, the other things, but we've got, you know, very well good nightball, I didn't see. So they've got to get maths and put here first. 18:53:27 Yeah, I would feel the same as, Kevin, you know, maybe there's something that if we look at it with fresh eyes and that's the challenge to look at with truly fresh eyes. 18:53:32 Neither there's something that's a little out of date. You know. Like we came up with. 18:53:38 Whereing about. Good, compressing diversity. There's a lot that's happened in the country since we put that in. 18:53:46 And You know, maybe it appears on a date now, stuff like that. Single family residence is a little more agitated. 18:53:58 Being afraid of. 18:54:04 Being afraid of making the change that we want to make us a little bit. But I don't really know. 18:54:15 I don't know. I'm really hesitant to change anything. To suggest any changes, jumps out of me. 18:54:21 One was does the vision statement reflect current conditions. So far it sounds like. It is covered. 18:54:30 Let's let let me get some input from the rest of the mission. I'm sorry. It'll be, yeah, I've skinned it, but I didn't look super in depth, but I didn't see it. 18:54:37 That place. So, think it's a place to spend a lot of time. Chris? I'd like to think about it a little more. 18:54:50 Thank you. Okay. Joel, what I would like to do. Is those? 18:54:59 Mister Chair, you have a couple of members that are on video. Would like to comment probably. 18:55:05 Thanks very much. We can't, there you are. We had a, a document in the screen. 18:55:12 I couldn't see anybody. 18:55:11 Okay. I have to agree with the majority what I'm hearing tonight. I've gone through it a couple of times and I know that last go round. 18:55:21 A good that portion of the membership. Of this commission was involved in that and yeah, Matt might have a point look at a few sections of it. 18:55:33 Maybe bring some new information to light in the vision statement. But all in all, I think that statement, seems to meet. 18:55:42 What our intent was then as well as now and in the future for this next go-. I mean, we can sit around and try to, reword this thing on we want. 18:55:54 But we may end up in the same place just saying something a little bit differently, but meaning the same thing. 18:56:00 So personally I don't think we need to spend a significant amount of time on it. I would like everybody to review it and read it and make the comment next week. 18:56:09 But I don't think we need to redraft it or rewrite it because I think it gets to the point of the intent of the comprehensive plan. 18:56:17 Thanks Mike. Aren't first? Yeah. 18:56:21 Yeah, I might maybe I have some of the fresh eyes that Matt mentioned and yet as I was going through Reading earlier today and yesterday, I was really pleased with everything that I saw in there and I had kind of a list of things like well You know, I don't know what I'm gonna see when I read this. 18:56:41 Here are things I would like to see and it was check check check, check, you know. Robust resilient economy, you know, for all ages. 18:56:49 Different types of housing, you know, support for ecosystem vitality, biodiversity, even, you know, I was sort of not expecting the reference to. 18:57:00 Honoring travel treaty rights to be in there, but it was. So all I'm saying is I was I was pretty impressed. 18:57:07 Good job. Yeah, a few years ago, it the work that you put in is reflected here. I would certainly welcome another 2 weeks to sit with it and maybe offer, you know, a few small tweaks here and there to make it the most current thing possible. 18:57:23 But I don't think it would take more than that. 18:57:25 Thank you, Cindy. Than Mike and several others, speak my mind. I have read through it. 18:57:34 I went to print it and realized I had a picture issue. So I wanted to have a pen in my hand when I read it. 18:57:41 So I would love to have a couple more weeks to do that. I do not expect that there's going to be a lot. 18:57:46 It might be a, you know, a word here or there or just some little update as people have said. 18:57:50 I did want to respond to what, Joel said. You know, one of the things we spend a lot of time discussing last time. 18:58:00 Was, sort of the difference between actions, that and a vision statement. And so I think the comprehensive plan is where we have the action statements. 18:58:12 This is what we. Plan to do an, and the vision statement is. Is what it's gonna look like. 18:58:19 When we do that. So. I think if there are actions to take that need to be updated, I see those being in the sections that. 18:58:32 Thank you, S. Joel, I would, I'd like to see happen is have. The vision statement update as the next meeting agenda item. 18:58:45 And I would ask the commissioners. Here online to bring specific comments. Line by line specific comments do you have that you think should be changed? 18:58:57 And we can discuss these at the next meeting. And incorporate them or not. But then we'd have a file document. 18:59:04 So, I mean, that. See nods. Okay, so within our options and decisions we've chosen to. 18:59:16 Continue work the next meeting and then, with the idea that probably wrap it up of the review there. 18:59:23 And while you're doing your review, keep in mind that the vision statement is kind of establishing our counties. 18:59:29 Rural character. Statements. I think we go into a little bit more in the land use chapter. Of the comprehensive plan a little bit more on real character. 18:59:40 But. As you probably aware, rural character, and how we see ourselves. Is one element that is reviewed for conditional use permits, for evaluating goals and policies in the comprehensive plan. 18:59:58 Sort of carries. Forward into the comprehensive plan. And I think the work that you've done in the past. 19:00:05 Broad enough where we're not, leaving anything out, but it does. Hold that weight in, defining our rural care. 19:00:14 And, I know George and I have discussions at the office about rural character. And different ways of looking at real character. 19:00:24 George is, might tell you. Sometimes real character is something we don't want to maintain. 19:00:33 You know, there are some elements that are not good that. Have been used to define rural character that are unfortunate or yeah but then our conditions of societal issues that that maybe push some things to the rural areas that we can accommodate or. 19:00:55 You help with so much. So World character is not only cubic and pastoral, but it also involves some issues about being world. 19:01:05 Yeah. Thank you. 19:01:10 Think about as well. I just, I encourage you to. To be creative again with this creative document you've got already and bring it back to the next meeting with some specific comments and we'll move through this part of our. 19:01:23 Journey together of the next 18 months. 19:01:29 Yeah, looks like. Oh, Okay. 19:01:30 Well, can I? Clarifying question. The first sentence of our of our vision statement calls out preserving the real character and then I took the second sentence. 19:01:44 As land use priorities have protected open spaces forests and farmland for long-term management and conservation while also embracing innovations that foster opportunities for increased energy in between national and built environments. 19:01:56 I took that second sense as defining what we meant by rural character, but, are you suggesting that maybe we revisit or elaborate on to get a little bit more precise about what we mean by rural character. 19:02:09 I mean, it's called out as a priority in the first sentence. So it's there, but maybe we want to define it. 19:02:14 Even more. 19:02:15 I'd say yes to both of those. Well, Joel, another thing to consider is this document is really applied to the Planning Commission. 19:02:23 And, well, we appreciate your input. It's really what the commissioners. Want to have a vision statement, I think. 19:02:32 So, all right, look to consider what Joel said, but consider what you want. When it's in the next meeting. 19:02:44 Yeah, okay. Okay. I just want to provide context. What we're doing here and Not to help. 19:02:49 I will say, I will say one thing. For the good of the order, I'd love to let everybody know that, I'm not, not just a substitute, I'm actually a school teacher. 19:03:03 I took on the experience program at Sunfield Waldard School right now. And when I was at Chilacom, I was a substitute during the pandemic. 19:03:14 You don't, I just want to press upon you just to, I think this is what you were getting at about not and too rosy with the rural areas. 19:03:22 And so I'll just say this for a second. When you have all the students coming in, it's you have the coming from all different walks of life and. 19:03:35 And it's really a It's really a bad assumption to think that open comes from the same person. 19:03:45 You never know. Which student is in trouble? Like you never know. We're in the dark where the darkness is. 19:03:52 As a teacher. And You might never know, but you do know that it's there. You do know it's there a lot. 19:04:00 And. So with our rural character, I just think it's important to. To mention that that we make it like we made we started making it 20 years ago our definition of real character and combination of what's existing and what we have. 19:04:20 But it's really informed by what people actually need to, to live in a healthy way, rural area. 19:04:30 Well, to bring that to the next meeting is this specific idea for change. So if I could find a specific idea for a change, I will. 19:04:40 Thank you. That's good. Okay, that gets us the agenda. I don't 10.