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HomeMy WebLinkAboutclosed_caption14:01:42 Okay. Okay. Yep. 14:02:13 Okay. 14:02:31 Okay. 14:02:18 It is. 2, 2, just, Bye. Well, You ready? Okay, it's February the 20 seventh 2,024 and it's. 14:02:42 A few minutes after 2 o'clock, this is the. Monthly regular meeting of the Jefferson County Civil Service Commission. 14:02:50 I'm Bob Deeble, the current chair. We have commissioner. Intra-gestie is with us today and and Commissioner Dan Taylor as well. 14:03:01 And once again, I forget your. There. Sarah Mellon boxer. Alright, and she's an attendant. 14:03:10 And Steve is on. Is there any public comment before we begin the meetings? Okay. 14:03:19 And I did not receive any emails on any public comments. So there have been no public comments or so there have been no public comments or so there have been no public comments or so there have been no public conferences. 14:03:31 As everybody had an opportunity to review the minutes from the last I am. I move to accept. Second. 14:03:34 All in favor? Aye. Okay, the minutes are approved. The first order of business in under old businesses, the scheduling of a exam for support services technician. 14:03:50 And Steve, are you on the phone? 14:03:53 I am, yes sir. 14:03:57 Okay. Could you bring us up the date on what you have planned for the exam? 14:04:04 I can. We're currently scheduled to administer our exam on Saturday the sixteenth of March. At one p. 14:04:13 M. At the sheriff's office. The, ad was rewritten by Sarah. 14:04:19 Thank you, Sarah. And Kristen and I think it's running in the leader. It's got to run 3 weeks. 14:04:27 Yes, yes. 14:04:26 I'm sure. I think it's already in there. And hopefully with the, hopefully with the changes that were made to the job descriptions and everything else, we will get, quite the turnout that we're hoping for. 14:04:38 The applications will close on March the eleventh, which is a Monday. That'll give us time to review the applications and. 14:04:48 Good everybody set in scheduled for the exam if we have more than 6 or 8 we can certainly do 2 different sessions of testing. 14:04:58 And hopefully we have at least that many. I'd like to see a lot more, but. 14:05:00 We will know on Monday, I guess, how many testing sessions we'll have. So we'll have at least one starting at one o'clock. 14:05:15 Nice 14:05:09 Yes. And as of today I checked and we currently have 8 applications. Okay. And, Steve, will you take care of, reserving the room at the sheriff's office and. 14:05:24 Or 14:05:24 All right, well, I've talked with. We've got at least 8 so we could ask about us all we can test in that room at a time. 14:05:31 So we'll plan on. At least 2 90 min session so one at 1 one at 2 30 and then we'll see how we go. 14:05:40 Okay. Anybody have any questions about that? No, no, if you need help, you let us know. 14:05:48 I'd be glad to help you. Yeah. Yes. 14:05:50 All right, it sounds like, yeah, one person there would one additional person would be great if somebody's got some time free. 14:05:57 Okay. 14:06:02 Is there any other comment? Whether here in the room or public comment about the testing process? 14:06:10 I have not received any, there is no more comments. The next item is new business. Unless there was any other old business that. 14:06:19 Yeah. 14:06:20 And you can bring up. There's been a suggestion to amend. Rule number 4, change the classification or the name actually of the. 14:06:35 Administrative clerk position. And replace it. There's actually 4. Positions shown on your your agenda. 14:06:47 And the suggestion is to Replace them with 2. Hi, I might make a suggestion here. 14:06:56 That this is at least. The third time and maybe the fourth or fifth in my memory. That these classifications have changed. 14:07:05 To me it makes sense to say in the civil service rules, which is what we're talking about. 14:07:11 The classifications will be those in the collective bargaining agreement and or the personnel manual for the sheriff's office. 14:07:22 And leave it at that. 14:07:27 And I can't see that that would violate anything. But I may not be correct. You know, I just don't see why we would need to, Oh, Okay, that's what you're suggesting as far as. 14:07:47 Are you talking about? I'll be back. That's okay. That remind me, I could do. 14:08:00 Yeah. And then whatever the classifications are, the classifications are, they're gonna change again. 14:08:13 Who knows what they're gonna add new they may need a genealogical technician in the future. 14:08:18 I can foresee a lot of things coming. We don't need to jump in here and change a bunch of verbiage every time. 14:08:25 Just make it more generic. Okay, have to have something for the for their current positions. That's what I'm saying is we just change it to whatever is listed in the collective bargaining agreement and or. 14:08:36 The personnel policy for the sheriff's office. And that's what's listed here on our agenda. 14:08:44 Is that is that right? Yes, so right now currently under rule for it has. In the in the collective bargain agreement. 14:08:52 Yes, they are and they're probably in the in the personnel manual by now as well. I'm not sure about the sheriff's office. 14:08:59 I can, I can reach out to Kari. So it just be my guest that all those things are So why not? 14:09:08 Take some of the concentration out of it and just instead of repeating it all. Isn't there a advertising and wait period requirement for us to change our rules. 14:09:23 Don't we have to I've been doing some research into it and from what I've seen from other places is you can go in, you can change your individual rules and do the update as long as there's been an amendment made and within the civil service I have seen what you've been saying there have been multiple changes throughout the years the last one was in 2018 I believe that's when they didn't invent it 14:09:44 to them. So you would just. I know. Are you in motion? Yeah. 14:09:51 You just carry a motion through if you were to change it. And then we would just update the rule book. 14:09:53 Yeah. Oh, along the slides and make sure it's updated. Also, I can do a little more research though if you would like for the things. I thought it would be easier to do it that way. Maybe it's not. 14:10:06 I don't know. I thought it would be easier to do it that way. Maybe it's not. I don't know. 14:10:07 Maybe I don't want to have to do a bunch of stuff. We don't necessarily need them. 14:10:09 It would mean that we wouldn't have to change our rules every time that there's That was, yeah, you're right. There's gonna be changes. Yeah. 14:10:19 So the wording would be to accommodate any changes that come up in in the future. But as long as you're going to stick it to that. 14:10:26 It just needs to say that they will match the collective bargaining agreement and or because they're at some point may not be a collective bargaining agreement and or because they're at some point may not be a collective bargaining agreement and or because they're at some point may not be a collective bargaining agreement and or the policy. 14:10:37 Personnel policy for the sheriff's office. And that covers not just Not just the support staff, but everybody. 14:10:46 Sorry, you have any thoughts on that? 14:10:50 I was hoping you'd be here for this. 14:10:55 I like the idea. I think that pointing to the collective bargaining agreement is value really valuable because that is something that's under contract. 14:11:09 And 14:11:11 The civil service. Commission has its own authority. Take action and do things. So my first question would be Would we only want it in the bargain agreement? 14:11:28 Okay. 14:11:24 I mean, I know that that is also a contract and we're bound by. No, I don't think you can do it just that way because as I just said, there may not be. 14:11:33 Yeah. Oh Oh 14:11:37 And so, the personnel policy contains those same classification. So I don't know what is it. 14:11:50 The job description, all that stuff have to be updated for that. So as long as it contains language for both. 14:11:54 Then you're covered whether the CPA exists or not. Yeah, at least in my feeble old mind. 14:12:02 For me it's It's control. I mean, if it's in the CBA, that's something. 14:12:12 But if I say, what's the civil service rules? And what am I talking about when I'm speaking about classification? 14:12:19 I'm going to this. This document for Jackson County. 14:12:26 And so me as just a person off the street. I might see the collective bargaining agreement. Well, And if I'm reading this, well, what does that say? 14:12:38 I mean, to me that this establishes some kind of control. But the collected bargain agreement doesn't. 14:12:45 Have a job description. It just has a classification. Right. But the the personnel manual has or policy manual has the job description. 14:12:55 And that's where the rubber really means the road. That's what we're really talking about when it comes to testing, all that sort of stuff. 14:13:04 And so it needs to contain if we change to something as like I suggest, it needs to contain both of those. 14:13:11 For that. In my in in my so I don't know. It may not be well. 14:13:25 Discussion it may be just easier just change it. But it seems to me that the way 14:13:28 Well, we are, we are. Testing for the positions. And this isn't the only ones. 14:13:36 I mean, So we're by definition. Saying this is what the position is and and we're testing people to. 14:13:47 Either be in that position or get promoted from it or whatever. If we go away from that are we still going to be testing? 14:13:58 I mean, yeah, absolutely. I think it changes nothing except how often you have to change it in the band. 14:14:04 Yeah. And whether or not that's worth the time, I don't know. But regardless of how many times the contracts change between the within the department, the union contracts with the with the county. 14:14:18 Our regulation is going to, it will cover whatever change automatically cover whatever that changes. So that's the way I envisioned it. 14:14:29 Yeah. And, all we're doing is saying. Whatever classification is listed. In both of those. 14:14:38 In both of those, I can't say agreements, but in both of those documents. Then that's what we're gonna test for that's you know none of that part of it changes just whether or not. 14:14:55 Growth that covered solid changes. 14:14:59 Okay. Well, I think we have to, before we vote on it, I think we need to see something in writing and how we're going to restructure that in our rules. 14:15:10 I mean, I don't think they change the rules. All the only thing we change, I was looking for where the classifications were listed in here. 14:15:16 I had a really horrible thing happened today before. I was gonna look that up, but I got diverted to that. 14:15:26 So I don't know where to look for that in here. It's actually under room for, classification section 2, has the list of all of like it comes from. 14:15:40 For now, under the support services. 14:15:46 Yeah, we just say. Whatever classifications are listed in the current CBA. And or the personnel manual for the sheriff's office. 14:15:58 That's all. For the other classifications, and we can do the same thing. So then the share of ostensibly the sheriff's office personnel manual could be changed. 14:16:11 Without review of the board. Because the Sheriff's Office personal manual is owned by the Sheriff's Department. 14:16:20 And then that could be changed without any reference to. Didn't that just happen? This. No, it did not happen through collective bargaining. 14:16:34 Same thing. Well, that happens to collective bargaining, but if you remember last year when there was an issue about classification. 14:16:39 It pointed to the issue as related to the commission. And the civil service rules for Jefferson County. It did not relate to the collective bargaining agreement. 14:16:52 Because they collective bargaining agreement is separate. From the Civil Service Commission rules. And I mean, you're the expert. 14:17:00 Bargaining but to me that that that difference is really is important. Sold the county gets to describe the work. 14:17:12 The union gets to bargain for what it costs to do that. Right. And we get to decide. 14:17:20 With some rules who's gonna accept that position and who isn't through testing. Well and and in theory I think also If the question ever came to us, is somebody working out of classification? 14:17:37 Outside, Yeah, I know it. But you know, for the most part, we don't hear about it. 14:17:48 Before because people claiming that they're doing more well and partly Partly it was to. It was probably to get more comparables. 14:18:01 Well, things change. And, and so, I don't know, like I said, if it's simpler just to Do you like where we're talking about doing it in the agenda? 14:18:10 That's fine with me. If it's simpler to do this and and makes things better long term, that's also fine. 14:18:19 I'm not married to, please. I would be willing to do a little more research and see what other maybe. 14:18:25 Commissions have done in this matter and also come up with some verbiage for the next meeting to present. 14:18:32 No. Well, I will. You can do that by the next meeting. Okay, does that I mean, yeah, we can table it and table it until whenever we have sufficient data to be able to sure that's fine too. 14:18:48 And in the meantime, I mean, I agree with what she's saying. We should come up with. 14:18:54 Maybe just a draft of the worry that we, you know, delete this and serve that. And that I intended to have that today, but. 14:19:04 Yeah, so do you do that? I'm good. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't have to be too elaborate. 14:19:12 Yeah, I mean, it doesn't have to be 2 cents. Okay. A firm believer in the West, Well, without objection, I think we could table this until. 14:19:24 We get together again and Sure. Okay. I'll make a motion that we do table that for further discussion. 14:19:32 And then an investigation. Okay, you seconded? Yeah. Like all in favor? 14:19:39 And, sir, I'm sorry. You came in and we didn't recognize you. I'm Troy. Okay, good. 14:19:48 Glad to have you. Troy's, IT, IT, looks like you've been in the Yeah. 14:20:02 Okay, sorry. Okay. The next item is. 14:20:09 We do have a memo from Andy Bernsteiner. About. 15. 14:20:19 And, are filling vacant. Corrections deputies from the patrol list. Apparently, We don't have names on or we do have names on the corrections list. 14:20:35 We do have about 4 total. One was actually Gordon's list. We do have about 4 total. 14:20:42 One was actually Gordon, who is, that is a corrections position. But I haven't gotten an update from Dave on whether or not to pull the other 4 people out there or 2 lateral and 2 entry. 14:20:49 Went from what Andy is saying is they're still having issues getting people staff getting people like fully through the testing along those lines and then he did interview. 14:20:58 Like 3 people for the deputy. There's like one he wants to hire for the deputy and then there's 2 viable candidates that he said he's supposed to be willing to go with crashes because it is an incredibly hard position to fill. 14:21:09 From what I'm reading in this. And I assume that he's discussed this with these candidates that they would remain on the. 14:21:21 Road deputy list. But at the same time be hired as corrections deputies. And I don't know whether Well, the easiest thing you could do is, is hire them as interim. 14:21:38 It doesn't say that here, but no, under. That he wouldn't need our permission. 14:21:47 He wouldn't need our permission. He wouldn't need, I mean, he could do that. 14:21:48 So if he were to hire them as interim, you wouldn't need your permission, but if you were to hire them as regular full-time correction, Yeah. 14:22:04 So is he if he hires them as interim and it's Where does it say? Until they have room decision. 14:22:17 Well, or I, or could you just hire them as internet corrections and hopefully the, wrote that the position would open up. 14:22:22 Is that what he's intending or is he intending to make them full-time? I'm not. 14:22:27 I can't speak for what I'm reading. Thank you. 14:22:29 I could. I think I can share a little bit of I can shed a little bit of light on that I think. 14:22:37 I sat in on the interviews. We interviewed 4 people. One candidate was determined, ineligible, so we bypassed on him there was one. 14:22:48 Well, that Andy wants to go ahead and hire immediately. The other 2 candidates are certainly viable for patrol. 14:22:57 And he is anticipating at least 2 patrol positions opening up by the end of the year. Wants to keep those 2 Goodbyeable candidates in line for the patrol positions and in the meantime hire them as corrections deputies to get them in. 14:23:14 Into the department, get their feet planted within our department. 14:23:19 So then would it be a transfer from the corrections to the, I mean, to road patrol? 14:23:26 No, because they would hire in Yeah, as directions deputies. Into positions became available, then they would have to go through the selection process for the patrol. 14:23:38 Interviews does such again. But at least they'd be within the department and they. I don't know if they could be considered as lateral transfers or not. 14:23:51 I haven't gotten into it that far. So we've done it. In the past several years ago we did we to a higher off another list. 14:24:02 And, And that's where it's at. 14:24:08 Okay. Worried about is that if they've been told that we're gonna hire you as a road deputies, but we're going to put you in corrections until additional positions open up on the road. 14:24:24 And then, if these guys, these candidates are going to say, what do I have to retest or is it automatically mine? 14:24:31 Because of that, I don't want to see a problem come up later. They say, well, you know, I was hired as a road deputy and now you're telling me I gotta retest for that. 14:24:41 Right, their tests are valid for I think it's 2 years. 14:24:45 Yes. 14:24:46 Well, they're test scores. It's on the list. I think that and I believe it's a 2 year period where their test scores remain viable. 14:24:54 So. Those positions are certainly going to be come open within that two-year period. 14:25:02 That seems to me be the only obligation would be to say, We're glad to offer you this position in corrections. 14:25:13 And if your time on the road deputy list expires, you're going to have to retest. 14:25:18 Right. And in the meantime. 14:25:18 I think they wrote down. That's correct. That's the understanding. Is that, if. 14:25:21 Yeah. Yeah. 14:25:26 Some time for them to transfer over the deputy list and their scores have expired. Yes, they would have to retest. 14:25:33 Is it your understanding Steve that they would be interim corrections officers then? 14:25:43 I don't know if the term interim would be Correct or not, I know there's that the interim. 14:25:47 Temporary. 14:25:50 Well, according to, The state, anybody, anybody where it used to be for corrections officers. 14:26:00 If you were hired for 6 months or less, you didn't have to attend the academy. 14:26:06 Gone away with that now and then everybody has to attend the Correctional Academy if you work at any time in the jail. 14:26:14 Could it be a provisional hire? I would think that would be the appropriate title would be a provisional. 14:26:28 I don't. 14:26:21 Higher but then that's only a 4 month term. Oh, I. I don't know what the job But their John Tyler would be other than Corrections Officer. 14:26:35 Would it be nice if there's so many questions on this? Well, and my concern is as far as the commission is concerned. 14:26:46 We have people that have taken. The road deputy test from and are on a list. 14:26:56 And. 14:27:00 No, I hope I'm thinking the wrong way around. We have people that have taken the corrections test. 14:27:06 I think there's a list here. We have people that have taken the corrections test. And I think there's a list here. Yes. That has. 14:27:13 And what we' somebody or somebody's and slide them in ahead of the people that are on this list. 14:27:19 It seems like. Yeah, that might not be too kosher, but. I was assuming there wasn't anybody on the list based on what he said. 14:27:31 What person we don't have a list of the candidates for the road position. Do we? Okay, please. 14:27:43 Sarah from the HR standpoint, do you have any input on that or do you have any worries or concerns? 14:27:48 I guess I, Hi, and in alignment with the concerns that you express. Which one is if you have folks who applied and are testing for corrections and folks who have applied and tested for sheriff. 14:28:04 How do you keep that? That fairness, within the within the terms of what the service, Another thing is that It's my understanding that you know, when someone is finally hired to be a corrections. 14:28:26 Yeah, there's a year wait time. For to go to the training. For that because the state is so far behind. 14:28:36 Oh, for them they even have an academy. That's for corrections. I don't know for deputies. 14:28:47 If you will, here for just a minute, let me read this out loud to everybody. Sometimes that's helpful. 14:28:54 It almost always help. Good idea. The sheriff's office held patrol deputies interviews. This week for vacant patrol deputy positions. 14:29:03 After ranking the candidate. We have selected one candidate, number one candidate from the list. IT would be for the patrol. 14:29:15 And yeah, please. Interject if you have ideas like that. The number 2 and number 3 candidate. 14:29:24 Are also great candidates for hiring. But we currently do not have any vacancies on patrol. How are the jail remains severely understaffed? 14:29:36 And are likely losing other corrections deputies to Kidsap County in coming months. After speaking with 2 and 3. 14:29:46 Patrol deputy candidates. They expressed interest in working in the jail as a corrections deputy until patrol positions open up. 14:29:57 So. Okay, but that last sentence is what gets me. They said they're They're okay or they agree that they can work in corrections and tell them which role for themselves. 14:30:10 But ASCII told us and in under share. Discuss with them that about any possibility of having to retask. 14:30:21 For the patrol positions. Yeah, I don't know what I'm not going to speak through. 14:30:29 Andy had to say. Well, what, what I see here. Let me read the last sense and then we'll go. 14:30:36 Jesse was requiring permission to hire is requesting permission. To hire corrections deputies off the patrol deputy list. 14:30:47 So. To me, he wants to hire those guys into the jail where they're desperately needed. 14:30:56 And then when they begin to bleed. Deputy positions bring them back out. And I think we did to say. 14:31:05 Only if they are still on the list. Well, we have to stipulate. Yeah, because we're and I think that's what he's asking us to do. 14:31:15 Yeah. But that's all we could do. We can't, that's all we could do is say as long as they're still on the list, that's okay If their position on the list expires, they have to leave that as. 14:31:37 We don't even need to say that if they are not on the list. They can't be hired. 14:31:38 Well, I think it'd be only transparent. We don't hide nothing. No, I don't think we're highly understand. 14:31:48 Well, I think it needs to be explained to those guys. Yes. I do too. In case they don't know because They may be a little sharper. 14:31:59 Oh, I'm sorry, didn't she? Yeah, she gave it, it gave us all. 14:32:04 I guess, well, and that's, you know, there's nobody on the individually. If a position doesn't open up in a timely way. 14:32:12 Then that's not for us to say they're off the list that's too bad they're still in the jail. Yeah, for us to say they're off the list. That's too bad. 14:32:18 They're still in the jail. 14:32:19 Just stay out of it as far as we dare. 14:32:26 That's so we're not bumping anybody on on the corrections list because there isn't anybody. 14:32:33 Right. And we're not holding anybody back on the deputies list. Because they're 2 and 3. 14:32:41 Yeah, I mean, they're at the top of the list right now. It sounds like it's a pretty good idea really. 14:32:47 Yeah, Steve, are any of these candidates, laterals? 14:32:53 Number one is lateral. 14:32:58 2 and 3 or not. 14:33:04 I'm sorry, did I lose you? 14:33:06 Oh, we're just thinking. 14:33:09 I, I'm, I'm in the middle of a thing here, so I, I don't know, but yes, number one is the middle of a thing here, so I, I don't know, but yes, number one is a lateral. 14:33:17 Currently with poor towns in PD. 14:33:21 And, 2 and 3 or not. 14:33:26 I don't know if that, I don't know if that'll matter or anything, but. 14:33:31 Interesting. Okay. Well, I mean, it seems like 14:33:41 We're not being asked to make any huge rule change to do this. I don't think so. 14:33:51 Yes, sir. 14:33:47 Let me ask Steve a question. Steve, are. Our. Our patrol deputies. 14:33:56 Legally eligible to serve as corrections officers with their training. 14:34:04 No, they still must. Anybody working in the jail must attend the corrections officers academy. 14:34:11 So I believe that's correct. They're still a year out. 14:34:15 Okay. 14:34:13 That's some point. At least, and they're at least a year out on the patrol academies as well. 14:34:22 But there's at least a year wait on the Corrections Academy. 14:34:28 I assumed that they were on the list. Well, and the way it sounds is that the state training academy. 14:34:38 Are looking at a year plus before any of them could and so they would be through their probationary period and everything before they even are trained. 14:34:48 Well, they wouldn't. Yeah, they might. 14:34:49 Yes, that's the way it's going right now is these guys are clearing other agencies to their clear probation before they even attend the academy. 14:35:00 But, the under share is he wants to immediately, hired the candidate number one. 14:35:07 Yes, he wants to hire him and he wants to get him started. 14:35:11 Through background, he wasn't giving a start date. In April. 14:35:15 Well, I don't have any problem with that. It's just the other 2. Candidates that are gonna go to correct. 14:35:26 That's the one side. But the candidate going to patrol. Yeah, That's good. 14:35:33 Okay, I think if 14:35:37 I, I would like to talk to other share for starting to get more clarification. Myself, I don't know you gentlemen feel, Sarah, how you feel good. 14:35:48 Well, I think that's probably a good idea. So can we table this, other 2 gentlemen or candidates? 14:35:57 I'm sorry. I don't know if they're both. I'm not sure that we can Tell him you can't deal with it. 14:36:07 It seems like, okay. He's not violating any of our roles. No, by putting them in the academy, cause that's all he can do, right? 14:36:18 When I say when I say put a table is to get invite, so that would be good. And actually, I did, in my port that you could come, but you know, I would love to see up here just as well. 14:36:34 Or at least be on the phone with us. Right. I know he's busy, but if we can give him some time to come in That's what I would suggest. 14:36:42 Yeah, see the letter on the 20 first of February, which is only about a week before here. So if we were to table this and then bring it back in barge, she would hopefully give a camp in time to schedule that time. 14:37:00 Or even if one of us wanted, you know, go interview. You know in the meantime and if we would have our answer for our next meeting as well. 14:37:05 Yes. Yeah, so, and I, volunteer to go talk to the other sheriff. Well, and, and if it is a, when you speak with him, if it is a a, and up issue. 14:37:21 We can, together, we can have a special meeting to vote on it and and we could do it. 14:37:27 I mean, remotely. So, you don't even have to come back here or does it? 14:37:34 I was just going to suggest that. I don't know in our rules if there's anything that would prohibit him from doing this. 14:37:42 Nothing off hand, but I would, I would certainly go back and reread it before. 14:37:50 The 14:37:57 And we could always hold the remote special meeting if necessary or any person special. 14:38:08 Well, there it is. No person shall be admitted to any examination or position in the classification service. 14:38:17 Until they have filed. Properly. Completed application. On the form provided by the commission. 14:38:26 Which those guys have not done because they We're the GP is not correction. What rule? 14:38:35 So that's section 4 number one. 14:38:49 Which is a pretty damn fine point. Let me think really. 14:38:56 So what we rely on you to go have a word with them? Yes, sir. Okay. That's excellent. 14:39:06 I've got my, I know, but I, Just communicate with us if it appears that he wants to do this right away. 14:39:13 I don't see any reason why we even have to vote on it, but well, other than they haven't applied. 14:39:20 Yeah, they need to. Yeah. That's it. We're creating all kinds of trouble. 14:39:29 No. 14:39:27 Well, I can, I can, I can shed a little bit of light on. I can shed a little bit of light on that. 14:39:36 Yeah, the day after the, after we did the interviews. Andy called Andy and Dave both called me on the phone. 14:39:42 And asked me if they could go ahead and hire. The 2 for the corrections. It was my suggestion that he could put something together before the commission. 14:39:53 Thank you. 14:39:53 So it was it was my suggestion that he You know, do his due diligence. He and Dave both and if there were no other stumbling blocks. 14:40:03 To make sure to run it through. The commission to make sure there was nothing. But it wouldn't raise any hackles on our side. 14:40:10 I didn't think there was, but I just wanted him to cover that base. On his own. 14:40:13 That's the only thing I see, Steve, is that one provision. 14:40:19 Right, they actually have to apply for a corrections position, which neither one of them have done yet. 14:40:25 Yeah. Now unless there's something that you can. Hi, Yeah, I don't even know how they can do that, but. 14:40:34 Hi, I'm as deputies but assign them to the jail but they're still had to go through the corrections. 14:40:40 But they wouldn't be listed as corrections officers. Unless they apply for the corrections. Position. 14:40:48 So. So it's. 14:40:54 Yeah, there's all that. 14:40:48 They're their pay your pay would be different they'd be left instead of hers and the whole bit so it would They would have to be, they would. 14:40:58 Yeah. 14:40:58 They would have to be hired as corrections and then when they patrol, when the patrol positions opened up. 14:41:04 They would have to apply for those positions as well if they're still on the list. And go and have their ranking on the list as well if somebody comes in and ranks above them they'd have to go through the inner review as well to make sure the new additions to the list don't. 14:41:20 Top them out on scores and stuff. 14:41:24 Yeah. 14:41:27 Oh, it'd be so much easier to say, yeah, go ahead, but I could see a lot of problems. 14:41:38 If the. Time line for them to get into any type of training is So far out in the distance. 14:41:46 Is the same thing with the road deputies is the same problem? Yeah, there's 14:41:50 It is. Yes, yes it is. 14:41:53 Yeah. 14:41:54 It's it's it's the same 10 months to a year on on patrol side and at least a year on correction side. 14:42:02 Okay. I just have a one in question in this situation. Since both getting into the Corrections Academy and the Patrol Academy is about like a year or so out. 14:42:14 Let's say that they have to get hired into the corrections and they're on the list to get into the Corrections Academy. 14:42:23 But during that time period. You know, there's still the deputy list. That there's an opening there and then they get put on the deputy. 14:42:35 Can they still then be put on the deputy list and pulled off the corrections academy training and then put onto that one. 14:42:39 Or is there something? That might happen in between if they're already in the corrections on the corrections list, you know, on the line to go into Depression Academy. 14:42:50 Can they not be pulled off? 14:42:50 Now they can they could change They can be pulled out of the Corrections Academy at the last moment with little or no notice. 14:42:58 That happens all the time. And that that act that exact situation comes up all the time with other agencies and I know. 14:43:05 Personally, it's happened several times that People are hired. For the jail in anticipation of a patrol position. 14:43:15 You know, they are working in the jail. The position comes up in patrol. They take that position. 14:43:23 They're removed from the Corrections Academy and put on the wait list for the Patrol Academy. 14:43:26 And in fact, we're just doing the other way around. 14:43:30 Exactly. 14:43:31 Well, Steve, if you know. Is the problem that the legislature just doesn't. 14:43:40 Legislating up funds to have academies going enough to be able to prank out enough candidates throughout the state or is it some other problem? 14:43:51 The academy they've always had financial issues. They're having personnel issues now. They're trying to establish instead of the one training academy in Bering, they're trying to establish 5 locations throughout the state. 14:44:04 Trying to figure out how they want to do that and staff it and fund it in the whole bit. So, and the corrections. 14:44:11 Academies are not nearly as popular as patrol. Academies so they as as patrol I think patrol has at least 6 Academy sessions a year. 14:44:23 Corrections is lucky to have half of that. 14:44:29 So that's part of the Part of the impotence to They increase the number of the academies statewide in hopes of getting, you know, academies within a month of higher. 14:44:41 Instead of normally I mean I was 8 months out on mine and that was You know, what was that 30 years ago and it hadn't improved at all? 14:44:50 So with the addition of additional training locations. Funding in the whole bid. Yeah, their hope is to get it, you know, you hire in, you go right to the academy and then you start work. 14:45:00 That's what they'd like to get. 14:45:08 Well, is there any more discussion? I don't think we, the most rousing discussion. 14:45:20 But I don't think we can resolve it. Well, I think we can. After we talk to the under share of. 14:45:28 I think we did. I think all that has to happen. Yeah. I think we did. I think all that has to happen. 14:45:33 And I think we did. I think all it has to happen. And they need to sign up for the Corrections Academy and go through that hoop and it's vacant. 14:45:36 So that shouldn't be a big deal. Yeah. Yeah, well, Steve, I'll get in touch with you and if there's a date that if you wanna assist me on that since you know a lot about the testing. 14:45:45 We can. Okay. 14:45:46 Absolutely, I'm more than happy to do that. My one concern would be My one concern would be Doing this, I mean, hiring those 2, I mean, I don't know what the status of, the corrections. 14:46:02 And in a list right now and sheriff's office I don't there are no interviews planned But I know there are names on the list. 14:46:09 He's getting Weekly updates. So I don't know. 14:46:09 Well, Yeah, those are the best. Thanks. 14:46:17 I don't know if there are names on the current corrections list or not. I don't know if he's Would this be jumping those guys? 14:46:25 That's the one thing I'm not sure. 14:46:25 We then we get There's about 2 lateral and 2 entry on the corrections list. I can. 14:46:34 That have they've been interviewed yet. No. They haven't been interviewed yet. So I think. 14:46:36 No. Not that I'm aware. I can also send them to you 14:46:51 Right. 14:46:42 Right. David would have to. Interview those 4 candidates and make sure none of those are more acceptable to the corrections than these 2 patrol games. 14:46:55 Can't jump the 4 guys on the corrections with 2 guys from patrol this without interviewing those guys on the corrections list 14:47:03 I have a problem with that. Yeah. 14:47:09 Well, I 14:47:12 I'm sorry. 14:47:08 What's the minimum direction? . 7 Hmm. Okay. 14:47:17 So I would encourage Dave to. Interview those 4 or you know interview a couple of those Canada if he's only got 4 names to interview those 4 and see where they rank out and you know he's going to have to interview these 2 guys from the patrol site as well to see if He wants them in jail. 14:47:35 Andy can't decide who he works and he can't decide who works in a jail. 14:47:41 Right. 14:47:43 So, I mean, Dave's, Dave's willing to take them in, but. Without an interview on the 4 candidates. 14:47:51 He's got, he doesn't know what he's. He doesn't know what he's playing with either, so. 14:47:59 I agree. 14:47:54 I think in fairness to those 4 candidates They at least deserve an interview. For the job that they applied for before before you hire somebody that didn't even apply for the job. 14:48:07 Oh, hi, totally agree with you. Yeah, I, I think that's correct. Okay. 14:48:14 Is it? 14:48:26 But if you 14:48:14 I, I can call. I can get a hold of Dave if you want tomorrow and I can encourage him to interview those 4 or If you know we want to I don't know how you want to handle that but Like I say, I think, I think Dave. 14:48:30 Sorry. 14:48:29 Why don't we, why don't, and, and you together, we can talk in a bold at the same time, so we're on, we're all on the same page and they understand what's going on. 14:48:42 Yeah. 14:48:40 Alright, And I was little. Frustrated that Andy is not at least on phone, that was my encouragement to him as to. 14:48:50 Present something to you guys at the meeting today, but 14:48:53 Oh, no, that's what What? 14:48:55 Whatever. So yeah. I think a face, face to face or at least a phone with, with Joe, Andy, Dave and, and. 14:49:11 Okay. 14:49:05 Several of you would be appropriate to answer all these questions. I just think there's some. Don't want to step on any toes, but I I think the corrections guys that have applied for the job need to be considered in 14:49:20 Equally with the 2 patrol guys, you know. 14:49:24 Or 2 separate jobs. 14:49:26 Yeah, right. Yeah. 14:49:27 They deserve. They deserve the consideration, the same level of consideration as the patrol guys do. I mean, I sat on the interview for the patrol guys. 14:49:36 The 2 candidates are excellent. They both will make excellent patrol deputies. 14:49:44 Well, I'm sure. 14:49:44 How they work out of it, you know as well as I do you know as well as I do the patrol in the jail are 2 totally separate animals. 14:49:52 So, 14:49:51 Yeah. In fact, I even get a hold of Sheriff, I think he's gonna have to be made aware. 14:49:59 All those 2 and set in and. Do you have anything like that? I mean, is something that you guys need be involved in or is HR? 14:50:11 I've only heard of it through being. Aware of what's going on on the commission. 14:50:16 And I think that what you all are doing is The property is checking the Civil Service Commission roles and then are also checking the RCW to ensure that under RCW that it is. 14:50:29 Allowable to do that. Thank you. 14:50:37 Yeah, we made this sound. It sounds like there were nobody. Wasn't like list, but that isn't what he says. 14:50:44 Okay. So we're all agreement on the. I think, I realize that they are anxious to build these spots. 14:50:57 At the same time. I think there's a lot of questions and. Well, look, yeah, there's more information and I think we should talk about it again the next meeting. 14:51:08 All right, open door. 14:51:07 Or if we need to, we, I mean, I understand. I'm willing to help them in any way we can because it is an issue, but We can't just make things up. 14:51:19 I got a meeting going on, but I'm hoping stuff. 14:51:20 That's correct. Unfortunately, Yeah. Well, and, and that my, my first thought was that somebody on the current corrections list. 14:51:34 Would have a valid complaint that you know your sliding somebody in ahead I should be offered a job and you're you're doing this because Exactly what we're not supposed to do. 14:51:47 Put our buddy in or whatever it might be. We would like to make the motion to table. That we, that we. 14:52:10 Table this particular issue. 14:52:14 Until we can either schedule an emergency meeting or next month. If that's if that becomes necessary. Yeah. 14:52:27 I'll second it. All in favor? That's what we'll do. Well, amazingly enough, we have exhausted our agenda. 14:52:39 Are there any other issues? Need to be brought up from the good of the order or anything else. 14:52:45 So you can think of any public comment from. Out in the ozone. I have not received anything, any closing of marks. 14:52:55 According to my highly accurate calendar, our next meeting is scheduled for the 20 sixth of March. And unless we have a, special meeting and hopefully if that becomes necessary, we can, we can meet again here or do it all remotely. 14:53:12 But yeah, we do need to get some more information. But thanks everybody for coming. I'll join the meeting and it's. 14:53:18 2 51. Okay. Right. 14:53:26 Let's see again. This one's a sign. Sorry. Gordon's out there, guarding the front door. 14:53:38 That, you know, we're all safe. 14:53:43 Okay. 14:53:48 Oh, Dan, I have your badge. Thank you. Go and I'll do some research into. 14:53:56 Okay, we'll say you get out of classification paid for researcher.