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City of Port Townsend and Jefferson County Commissioners
Minutes of August 3, 2005 meeting
CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The City Council of the City of Port Townsend and the Jefferson County Board of
County Commissioners met in a special joint session this third day of August,
2005, at 6:30 p.m. in the Port Townsend temporary Council Chambers in the
Cedar Room of the Waterman & Katz Building, Mayor Catharine Robinson
presiding.
Council members present at roll call were Kees Kolff, Geoff Masci, Laurie
Medlicott, Catharine Robinson and Michelle Sandoval. Frank Benskin and and
Freida Fenn were excused. County Commissioners present were Phil Johnson,
David Sullivan, and Pat Rodgers.
Staff members present were City Manager David Timmons, City Attorney John
Watts, County Administrator John Fischbach, and City Clerk Pam Kolacy.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Beth Wilmart reminded those present of the preventative aspects of having a
strong parks and recreation program.
Mimi Henley spoke in support of specific funding for the pool.
Joe Mattern stated that parks and recreation programs are an important
community resource, particularly for young families.
Hervey Hicks spoke of the importance of a swimming facility to maritime
communities.
Scott Walker read a letter from Mary Winters, YMCA Board member, supporting
recreation as a core government function and supporting a study as the first step
toward a park district. She stated that the Y can support this, but cannot be the
driver.
Warren Steurer (with County Parks Dept.) reminded Council and Commissioners
that two studies have been taken part in by advisory boards over the last three
years and that staff and advisory boards are happy to work with electeds on this
issue.
Dimitri Kuznetsov spoke of changing demographics which bring more retirees
and also children to the community; stated there must be a commitment from City
and County to support parks and recreation programs.
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August 3, 2005
Scott Walker addressed the issue of equity between city and county residents.
He stated the YMCA has been looking at how to provide equitable services but is
only funded by the City; said that citizens want these services and want them
equitably charged and distributed.
FUTURE FUNDING AND OPTIONS RELATING TO PARKS AND
RECREATION SERVICES
City Manager David Timmons David Timmons stated this meeting will begin the
process of the City and County coming together around a single purpose; this
particular issue keeps coming up but has never approached resolution. He
stated that the City had formed a Metropolitan Park District Task Force under the
guidance of Lee Springgate, a recreation professional, and the task force came
to the basic conclusion was there is a dichotomy of getting everyone to reach a
consensus about whether or not we have a problem. It was difficult to do an
inventory and assessment of a community that has many recreational assets that
are underutilized. The task force couldn't determine how the community felt.
The community has an opportunity to contract with the Trust for Public Land to
do a more scientific poll of the citizens to try and understand what they want and
what they are willing to pay for. He said that many people like to locate in areas
with a high quality of recreation and recreational facilities are critical to the
potential growth of a community.
He stated that he and the County Administrator feel this proposal, which includes
facilitating the process and subcontracting for survey work, is worthy of
consideration by the elected officials. Cost would be about $15,000 and the
result would be a consensus of where the community sees itself and what it is
willing to support or not support. The critical question on the table tonight is
whether to proceed with this recommendation and fund a study which could lead
to a possible ballot measure in 2006.
County Administrator John Fischbach stated that he believes information such as
this is necessary, particularly in a diverse county with such different needs. He
added that looking at the MPD task force report, you see it recommends against
a Metropolitan Park District, yet many members of the community think it is an
important thing to have. He said he believes the best way to make this
determination once and for all is to get data which shows whether or not the
community is willing to pay for an MPD and what form of a district are they willing
to pay for.
Ms. Robinson stated that one reason there did not appear to be enough revenue
for an MPD was that the prior study was looking at the school district boundary
rather than all of East Jefferson County.
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August 3, 2005
Mr. Masci asked for an explanation of why the discussion has come up again
when the MPD Task Force recommended against a district.
Mr. Timmons stated that the recommendation against an MPD had a footnote:
they felt that given the needs assessment and proposed structure it would not
adequately generate enough revenue given the boundary constraints; they also
felt they couldn't find in all their efforts that there was enough public consensus to
warrant going forward. Their recommendation was a straight levy rather than
park district. They supported the concept but felt there wasn't sufficient
community support at that time and that a need existed, before going further, to
do this sort of report and also felt that the effort should be a joint effort between
city and county.
Mr. Masci asked whether the decision point is whether to fund the survey; he
added that the willingness of the population to afford funding is critical.
Mr. Timmons stated that that is the decision requested and that this survey would
go after the data we don't have, which is what do the voters think. We have a
group supporting the idea, a group saying we can't afford it; and a group saying
other priorities are more critical. We have done several studies regarding
inventory, costs, etc., but what we don't know is what voters will support.
Ms. Sandoval stated her concern that information is provided to people prior to
the survey so they have a basis for answering the questions about what more
they could want or get. She asked how we get informed and intelligent answers
from the survey.
Mr. Fischbach said that the polling has two purposes: first is education, as the
poller leaves the person more informed about the available choices; and second
is data to provide to the decision makers.
Mr. Kolff noted that the Land Trust is familiar with some polls this organization
has done in other parts of the country. It usually works by starting with key
decision makers and policy makers and people in the community so that the
pollers understand the issues; we help design the information they give. The
first thing they will do is sit down with this group, the YMCA, and others for input.
He added that the task force outlined a process well on the top of page 13. He
believes there would be much work prior to unleashing the pollers in the
community.
Warren Steurer stated that the City and County both have Park and Recreation
Comprehensive Plans which were developed with much input and the County
has recently done a strategic plan - many of these have capital programs with no
funding source so that would need to be taken into account. He will provide a
copy of the recently completed strategic plan.
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Mr. Johnson stated that after seeing last year that the County had reduced
recreation spending 20% per year for several years, he believes we can no
longer sputter and fail. He said any approach must be Eastern Jefferson
County-wide and it is imperative that we work together and function as a unit. He
believes this is a great place to start working together.
Ms. Robinson noted that a joint meeting had been discussed regarding various
issues the entities shared or needed to share; this particular issue had citizen
impetus behind it.
Mr. Rodgers stated that he has talked to many constituents and believes we
cannot be in a situation where two thirds of funding will be paid by one district for
facilities that will be used a different two thirds; it really must be available to all.
A tax passed by 51 % will mean that the remaining 49% will have trouble dealing
with it. He added that whatever is done has to be available and easily
accessible to the entire community. There has been extensive testimony from
the community regarding the recreation plan and there are very different needs.
He stated anything he supported would have to serve the entire East Jefferson
County.
Ms. Sandoval stated it would be great to have equity and that right now she feels
the City alone has been stepping up to the plate and contributions have not been
equitable. She noted you can't have both the YMCA, which was supposed to be
a County-wide operation, and the pool, supported only by the City. She agrees
that the programs should be countywide, fair and equitable and that we need to
know what we are aiming for to make sure families, young and old are all going
to have something they need. She stated this is a reason why families don't
want to be here and why young people leave. She believes the two entities
must join forces as funding is becoming more scarce and a joint effort will make
funds go farther.
Ms. Robinson asked about the overall time frame. She said it sounds as though
we would be including money in the budget for a survey and possible ballot
measure in 2006 and the results would be seen in 2007. Mr. Timmons
confirmed.
Mr. Fischbach stated that based on his experience, it would take about three
months to complete the survey and that wouldn't include the information
gathering - total time overall would probably be six months.
Mrs. Medlicott stated that a lengthy community meeting was held lat year on
budget priorities and the Council clearly heard members of the community saying
they wanted a pool and parks rather than streets, fire or police services. She
stated she believes parks and recreation are important to the health of the
community and young families, but does not believe we need to spend another
$15,000 to take a survey when we already know what the results will be.
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August 3, 2005
Mr. Masci stated that the BIRFUS study taught us the importance of a statistical
survey and that this is a bargain compared to that study. The key question is
whether people are willing to pay for the desired services. He noted that it will
probably cost more than $15,000 and we should be ready to provide a total of
$20,000. He stated that what geographic area is in the district might be another
argument, but right now we need to find out if we are going to do it, if it is viable,
and go from there.
Mr. Kolff stated he agrees there is much to be learned from a survey. He stated
that the Trust for Public Land has an excellent track record. He stated that often
levies are put forward without enough information and then everyone wonders
why they fail. He added it would be an option to have a representative come
from TPL and do a presentation for the group.
Mr. Sullivan said there is much support in the County for the role of parks and
recreation programs in making this a healthy community which will benefit the
well-being of citizens as well as being something we can market to attract people
to the area. He stated we do not want to have any foregone conclusions about
the results of the poll.
Ms. Sandoval stated she is anxious to begin and would rather not schedule
another meeting for a presentation; if there is agreement to move forward, she
supports starting the process and having the education piece come as part of the
project.
Mr. Masci stated that initiation is simly a matter of a resolution from each body
and he is in favor of expediting the funding decision.
Ms. Robinson asked if there is consensus that we need a resolution from each
body and this will relate to each entity committing funding for half the fee for the
poll.
Mr. Timmons stated the first phase of the project would include bringing the TPL
representatives here and clarifying expectations. He added that the Trust for
Public Lands is a non-profit organization and the cost to get them to the table is a
nominal investment. He added we would not be required to commit to the full
$15,000 initially but can see the initial presentation and then authorize additional
work if the elected officials are supportive of what they propose.
Mr. Rodgers noted that he does not like junior taxing districts as a matter of
principle. He believes they result in a lack of flexibility which may take funding
away from other needed services. He said he is not opposed to a joint venture
such as a consolidation, but believes there are inherent problems with junior
taxing districts. He would prefer to keep more flexibility for elected officials and
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is interested in a consolidated process as long as it serves all of the city and
county.
Warren Steurer stated that there is an advantage for people knowing that
particular dollars will be earmarked for parks and recreation and that this source
of funding is stable and continuous. Otherwise there is always competition with
other items in the budget which also require funding.
Mr. Timmons noted that more and more cities are going into taxing districts
because they represent a service area delivery model. He added that recent
changes by the state legislature allow a dedicated tax to be created with
governance retained within a jurisdiction - a city can elect to retain jurisdiction if
a district is contiguous with city limits; if the district is into a county, a mixed board
can be created with county and city officials or there can be a separate elected
board.
Ms. Robinson noted that the task force said given the boundaries (school district,
which is not much larger than the city limits) not enough revenue could be
generated to do much more than retain what we have; by doing a larger area,
we can get a lot more by pooling our money and it appears that the way to do
that would be by junior taxing district.
Mr. Kolff stated he hopes we can go into this open minded and learn from
someone like the Trust for Public Lands so that we go in opening the door to all
possibilities, learn from them, and decide what's best for us. He urged the group
to go forward and develop an interlocal agreement in August to expedite the
process.
Mr. Sullivan stated he would be interested in hearing how comparable
communities have addressed this issue. He added that people are frustrated
with so many competing entities, and want someone to take responsibility for
studying the issue and providing good information so that people feel they have
had a sufficient amount of education on a ballot issue.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Scott Walker stated that volunteer groups have taken this as far as they can, but
we still need to work on the costs associated with all those the programs
identified in the plans and surveys. He said that what we don't know includes
geographic need, timing for when facilities could be established or built, and what
would be the cost to residents. He said the County plan was developed by a
self-selected group of individuals who came up with a wish list and perhaps that
will be validated by the survey. He noted a number of gaps need to be filled in
before a measure goes onto the ballot. He doesn't have an opinion about
boundaries and this information could come from a statistically validated survey
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and will be helpful no matter what kind of taxing district we have. He added he
is pleased to see the two groups of elected officials willing to work together.
David Hero stated that 1) he is happy to see these two bodies together talking
about a topic; 2) regardless of whether the decision is made to go forward with a
survey, he believes a survey will prove that citizens of the county and city would
like some way of designating parks and recreation as a priority in our community.
He would like to see that parks and recreation are not always at the end of the
list, hostage to the other needs of the entities; 3)Jefferson Transit should be at
the table because part of the issue is that distribution of assets could be
mitigated by working with transit so everyone has ready accessibility; 4) he is not
big on surveys but is willing to support this one if it gives the information needed.
He suggested initially testing the survey on a small group of people to make sure
no information is missed; you need to get the information you want, not the
information you need to hear.
Mr. Kolff stated it is his understanding there is a pre-poll survey built into the
process. Ms. Robinson stated that five members of this group serve also on the
Transit Board.
Mr. Timmons asked if Council members wanted action on the item to be brought
forward to the next Council meeting. Consensus was in favor.
ADJOURN
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 7:56 p.m.
Attest:
Pam Kolacy, CMC
City Clerk
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