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HomeMy WebLinkAboutclosed_caption14:06:50 You got a. 14:06:52 Copy of the agenda. 14:06:55 I mean I oh, I got one. Never mind. 14:07:01 You may be the most good. 14:07:04 Yes, the updated. 14:07:06 For 5, for a month. 14:07:08 That's the new and improved version of the classification today. 14:07:11 Huh! 14:07:11 Okay. 14:07:13 Are we ready? We are ready. 14:07:19 Today's date of July the. 14:07:22 Tim. Yes. 14:07:23 2,024 and. 14:07:27 7 min after 2. I was a little bit late today. This is the special meeting of the Jefferson County Civil Service Commission. 14:07:36 Call, to address. 14:07:37 2 items that we we tabled at the last meeting. 14:07:41 Before we begin. Is there any. 14:07:46 Citizen, comment. 14:07:47 There have been no public comments, I have not received it. Alright, thank you. 14:07:52 So. 14:07:53 Here we are! 14:07:55 We? You have copy the agenda in front of you. We tabled at the last meeting. 14:08:01 Um discussion of uh your motion to. 14:08:06 Change the rules. 14:08:08 So maybe approve the minutes first.st From the June 25th meeting. 14:08:11 Approve the minutes from the June 25.th 14:08:19 And has anybody. Everybody had an opportunity to review the minutes from the last meeting. 14:08:26 I have, I have the motion to accept. 14:08:30 Second, then. 14:08:31 All in favor. Aye. 14:08:33 Good. 14:08:35 That moves it. Things right along. 14:08:38 So. 14:08:40 Well, the next is me. Did anybody did you get my? I have? If you look in your packet underneath the minutes there is a copy of your email. 14:08:50 Thing that so far we have not received. 14:08:53 Any other applications. 14:08:55 But it is still open until this Friday, at 4 30. 14:08:59 Have we got any application? 14:09:03 You want to be paid double what? You were laughing. Yeah, for his position. We do have the email for that. But we do need to wait until our next meeting is scheduled on the 24.th 14:09:19 Yeah. 14:09:20 Well, I'm glad you considered the opportunity to. 14:09:23 I appreciate. No, this is fun. I enjoy doing it. 14:09:26 How many, how many years will this be. 14:09:30 Did, already. 14:09:31 Oh, my God! 3 attorneys! This is man! Those be my 3rd term. 14:09:37 So when did you 1st get appointed. 14:09:40 And today I came in and volunteer. I replaced somebody. I don't. 14:09:51 Maybe 2, named George Washington. 2,017 is what I have on my 2,017. 14:09:59 That sounds terrible, and what was it? I didn't hear? June 5, th 2017. 14:10:04 Why you have that case. I had to call somebody. 14:10:07 There's a few numbers on it. 14:10:09 Oh, it has everyone and phone numbers in case I had to give someone a phone call. So I didn't have to run around and try to find it. 14:10:17 You get. 14:10:19 No Edgar. 14:10:21 Well, so you're gonna get drug before the. 14:10:24 County commissioners, apparently, and they'll they'll ask you why you want them. 14:10:27 Or have you already been there? 14:10:31 I've never done it either. 14:10:34 Well, let's definitely let's not start solving with. I thought that they generally I mean they did a long, long time ago, but well, you got some history that they had to look at. But that seems to be. Their big question is, why would anybody want to do it? 14:10:59 We went on to the board. They approved it, and then. 14:11:02 People are saying. It had been. 14:11:05 Well, okay, we move on to. Andy's gotta go. He's got a short timeframe. Yeah. So. 14:11:09 Or do you. 14:11:12 Yeah, we should probably skip the admin. Come back. Yeah, that's a fun idea. Okay, so if that's the case, the last 2 sheets are an email I received from the Public Safety testing. 14:11:24 With the current rate that the counties paying for 2024. And then they sent me the new contract for 2,025, which has the 2025 rates, which is the last. 14:11:34 The age. Attachment is. 14:11:43 Okay. 14:12:07 Yeah, like we weren't looking at replacing it, that we're just looking at, adding another just doing that. I know the 2 we were not talking about replacing. We were talking about adding. 14:12:19 Well in the hopes that we would get it. 14:12:24 In in my reading of the Employment List section. 14:12:27 Under Rule 7. 14:12:30 It only talks about a specific list. 14:12:34 For each classification of employee. 14:12:37 So now, right, you currently have 2 2 lists, and we have like an entry level list of collateral. So yeah, well, that. And that's those are separate classifications. So yeah, you get entry level sergeant. 14:12:51 Um. 14:12:51 And I think that's probably true of the jail side, too. But. 14:12:55 Sold. 14:12:56 It only talks about one list. 14:12:59 So that's. 14:13:00 The 1st little kitchen, or get along the second. 14:13:04 You have 2 lists from 2 different testing agencies. 14:13:08 With 2 different sets of dates. 14:13:10 Or when they were tested. How do you decide? 14:13:13 Who gets what, when, and where, without getting in a lawsuit. 14:13:17 Right. I guess those are. Those are questions that we're not really seeing on your horizon. 14:13:22 Just simply because also I get that we're so down I get that. So it looks to me like. 14:13:29 Give. 14:13:30 The jail is extremely short staff, which we know. 14:13:34 Then maybe you want to switch to a different agency. 14:13:37 And try that with them. 14:13:39 Exclusive. 14:13:40 Cause you don't have anybody on the list any. 14:13:42 And and so that. 14:13:45 Shortens the time it would take for us to get through the rules. 14:13:49 Make, the changes. 14:13:51 It kind of moves things along a little quicker. 14:13:55 That's all based on my read of it. 14:13:58 That that doesn't make this fact that just makes it my interpretation of what we got here. 14:14:04 And so. 14:14:05 If that turns out to be the case, then. 14:14:09 I think. 14:14:10 That's probably the most expedient thing to do. 14:14:14 Uh! Well, just my. 14:14:17 My knowledge of both of those organizations. Public safety testing represents 4 agencies throughout the State. 14:14:22 Currently the national testing network may not be the case nationwide, but I think, being able to local candidates, public safety. 14:14:32 Probably got a bigger net. 14:14:32 This was just. 14:14:34 An option to add on to that. 14:14:36 And and increase that. 14:14:38 I think if we made a switch to end. 14:14:41 Um. 14:14:42 Likely. 14:14:44 It's a decrease in our applicant. 14:14:46 Just by the sheer volume of appetite, apply through both the local. 14:14:51 Not only that, but does an Ntn. You have to go to their sites, their computer sites for the testing. 14:14:57 The only one I'm aware of is Everett. 14:14:59 I believe the new online testing. 14:15:01 And then the physical testing. I think you're right. I don't know if they offer proctored. 14:15:07 Physical. 14:15:08 Online. 14:15:08 Um. I know. 14:15:10 Public safety testing does that? You can. 14:15:13 Video. 14:15:14 Yeah, these are. 14:15:15 Yeah, I I went through there uh that was interested in the marshals, and I went through. 14:15:20 They don't. All they did was the physical. 14:15:24 And then the computer, the the test on the computer. That was it. 14:15:29 But I had to go, and then you don't do them all in the same day. So that means 2 trips to Everett. 14:15:33 So you've got some distance involved. 14:15:36 If we go the way we've been doing it like it's it's all local. 14:15:40 We can do that here. 14:15:43 And we get a better. We'd probably get a bigger group of participants or applicants. 14:15:49 I would think. 14:15:51 I know there's a little bit of difference. 14:15:52 In. 14:15:54 I want to say the grading, because the city of Seattle actually uses national testing and. 14:16:02 Obviously they get like a lower grade, but they get they're they're cut off as a little lower than public safety. So they get more applicants just based upon that. 14:16:09 And they can really like tailor it looking for a certain type of person to work in Seattle, you know. Be really. 14:16:16 A certain way, so that they can really tell who their test works for that. And so they actually were sticking with Mtn. And they didn't want to go away from them and go go back to public safety because they were going to get as many applicants. 14:16:28 To be able to pass the test for the sports, to go forward. 14:16:30 So that was one of the issues. I read an article in the. 14:16:34 English, one number. 14:16:35 Put those vendor issues. 14:16:38 Those bigger agencies have a wider based advertise. So when they're gonna apply for clp, you could have them from California. 14:16:47 Florida. 14:16:47 And then once they notify the city, then the city says, Okay, this who does our testing. 14:16:53 Ignorance, you know, so they don't. They don't have an option if they want to. They have to go through that. 14:16:58 Um. 14:17:00 I don't. 14:17:02 That's well. 14:17:03 How? How do we get to that. 14:17:05 In a big of a group of applicant or possible advocates. I mean, our advertisement is more local. 14:17:10 On the Peninsula. If anything. 14:17:16 The the only real solution I see is trying to. 14:17:19 Figure a way to write the rule that would allow or simultaneous test scores, and I don't know if. 14:17:26 An option to. 14:17:27 Include. 14:17:29 What intestates posted. 14:17:31 We'd be able to, you know. 14:17:33 The attire, or something to that effect of what's your treatment? 14:17:35 Or how do you compare the 2? I'm not looking for anything. I'm just pointing out what I saw as pitfalls. 14:17:43 It seems like every. 14:17:45 Civil Service Commission is a little different, like we have. Like, you know, we can. We can basically interview. 14:17:50 3 for one position. 3, 3 people. I know the city. 4,000. They can be 5. Yeah. So it's just kind of different. I know it varies. And you guys have the ability to to change rules to make it fit. 14:18:02 Whatever works best to a degree well. 14:18:05 The rule of 3 or 5. 14:18:08 Would be within our discretion. I'm not sure. 14:18:12 That. 14:18:13 I I just don't know how you reconcile. And maybe it's just because I'm older people minded. But. 14:18:19 How you reconcile 2 different lists. 14:18:21 2 different tests. Yeah. So if you had, if you had 2 on one list and one on the. 14:18:28 Other. 14:18:29 And you pick one of the 2 guys on the. 14:18:33 On a. 14:18:34 Alternate list. 14:18:36 Then where's that? Lead the guy? But you pick. 14:18:43 Yeah. Pick one at some point. Well, then, this guy's got a match to hold up at the. 14:18:48 Lawsuit file looks to me like. 14:18:52 But you'd interview all 3, though a little bit matter. 14:18:54 Well where he was on it. Yeah, well, and that's what kind of we always look at with the corrections. I mean, if you get like 8 or 10 people by the time the way that it is right now, by the time you get the list and you start interviewing people or calling them. They've either got a job somewhere else. 14:19:08 They're no longer interested or you interview, and they're totally not fit, or they're not gonna pass something right? And so that's so, you go through 10 or 15 names. It's like, Okay, now they're done. 14:19:17 So it's just another way to cast a bigger net. I get that, and I want to see. 14:19:22 Some way to do that, but. 14:19:25 Well, I think an interview is going to break or made the candidate. 14:19:28 I mean you. Can anybody take a test? And if you're good at test, that's fine, that's all. Paper. 14:19:32 But when you start talking to them, the background checks on these folks that's going to tell you what. What kind of a candidate you have. Are they worth it or not? 14:19:42 Right, but it's just getting them. Obviously the self Service rules acquire some kind of retest to have a ranking before we could do anything else, and so just getting them to the interview. 14:19:50 If we could just interview people. I'm sure we have. 14:19:53 Advocates. You have to go through steps. 14:19:56 And well in the in the more steps. But. 14:19:59 Less likely, that become. 14:20:01 Great. And it's really. 14:20:04 Like, I said times it gets really frustrating because we have to do civil service, and I mean, I love civil service. I love the the protection it gives to the employee. 14:20:11 But it's a pain sometimes when we lose. 14:20:14 Candidates to other parts of the county that aren't civil service cause. They literally have an interview in a background check bam. They're hired. 14:20:20 Whereas we have the test at someplace else, and then it's physical. We are. We also pay less than the other job or the other county. So I mean, it's really frustrating to get good qualified applicants, you know. And so. 14:20:32 We're just trying to like. 14:20:34 Make it a little bit easier, I guess, to try and get more people in there, so we can give them in front of us to interview them. 14:20:39 Just to get the the body in the seat for a job that you can. 14:20:45 Get it. 14:20:45 Elsewhere, very easily. 14:20:48 Very challenging. 14:20:50 I mean, that's. 14:20:52 Between that. And you know, just. 14:20:55 The hiring freeze through Covid. 14:20:56 And. 14:20:58 Turnover. It's hard to keep up one. It's always been challenging. 14:21:03 Are there other places in in our State that are doing what we're considering, using both? I was just thinking at my side. I don't know of anyone. Okay? And myself. 14:21:13 i i i don't. 14:21:14 I don't know how well I mean other than. 14:21:18 Taking. 14:21:19 A list of. 14:21:20 Public safety testing and asking them if they're using. 14:21:24 The other one, too. Um! 14:21:27 And how they do that I mean I um. 14:21:31 I don't have a problem with inviting people to come in. 14:21:36 But you know we do set some rules that you gotta pass the written at a certain level. 14:21:41 Or or you don't get to walk in the door and. 14:21:44 Well, the research will be started. I mean, you're gonna have to pass the written test to. 14:21:52 Their intelligent through that. Yeah, I mean, I. 14:21:55 I've done a public safety like a long time ago. 14:21:58 And then. 14:21:59 You know, in the next national testing network in Antonio test is comprised of. 14:22:03 So it sounds like you could. 14:22:05 Test, just to be able to, you know, challenge someone to see if they have this skill, not the skill set in front of you for interview. 14:22:12 So. 14:22:18 Well. 14:22:19 Now I don't recall. Was there a motion made. 14:22:23 That we table. We, I think the motion was made that we tabled this to discuss it further. 14:22:30 Okay, if I remember correctly, yeah. 14:22:32 Way I. 14:22:33 Well, cause you wanted to look through the rules. Yeah? And and. 14:22:37 I don't think the way they're written. 14:22:40 They allow for more than one list that. 14:22:44 That's the only technical quality I see. 14:22:48 So. 14:22:50 Well, it says, for each class of position. So what other classes would you be talking about? 14:22:56 Or a deputy, or it says. 14:23:00 And and employment list shall be established and maintained for each class in position. So that means one list. Okay, but what. 14:23:08 To each class. Yeah, what is the class? Did that be your corrections, officer? Yeah. 14:23:13 Yeah. 14:23:14 And I guess my my thought with it was, and I didn't even think about some service rules required, you know. 14:23:20 List and all that. What are you thinking about that cause the Leave National Testing Network reach out to me? We had a couple of conference. It wasn't very much money, and I'm like what we can get more applicants in for $500 a year. It sounded pretty darn cheap, you know, and then Dave's like, well, it needs to go for a semi boss, right? I mean, obviously, think about it being one test and one list. 14:23:43 And so it's just kind of an idea like, Hey, let's just pitch this and see where it goes. 14:23:47 And see if we can. We can. And we were just gonna do it for corrections. Because right now, obviously, we're we don't have any vacancies currently. 14:23:53 In patrol. 14:23:55 But any questions we do. So we're gonna try it with corrections to see if it was something that we do as advantageous. And if it gives us a big pool of applicants. 14:24:02 Hey? What great tool? Then we'd obviously, you know, buy the. 14:24:05 By the patrol, as well. 14:24:06 Do that virtual list. 14:24:09 But if it won't work, we. 14:24:12 It is weird. I don't. Wanna I just, I'm just saying, that's that's the only right list. So yeah, I thought about that. There's there's several places where that would be to do some sort of research on how you could potentially reconcile to this. 14:24:28 I just don't think you can. There's 2 different tests. 14:24:31 You know, even that article read police one they were. They're different. 14:24:35 Then, you know, and I guess that's that's supposedly the reason why. See how Pd. Went with. 14:24:40 With National Test Network. 14:24:41 Cause more people pass the test. 14:24:44 Public safety, public Safety. There's like I don't know. I don't know if it was the actual scoring of it like you had to be like a 71 or higher? Or is it almost like a 60? I don't know. That was the difference. Did it say, yeah. But the more people passed the national testing network, one would give them a better. And you know, some people just don't test well, so doesn't mean it's a poor applicant. 14:25:03 It just means they tested poorly. 14:25:05 But. 14:25:16 I mean the only other thing I could think of in this. 14:25:19 Would be a way of getting around. This is, if. 14:25:21 Cause. Obviously, we're in a contract right now with public safety testing. 14:25:25 Um. 14:25:28 Either. You just don't look at those scores, but you just have a list from national testing that you go off of and see if it gives you a full, applicable. 14:25:36 You know nothing, nothing measured nothing, I guess, but. 14:25:42 What's your contract say about. 14:25:44 Getting in and out of it before we take you. Custom. 14:25:54 I have the 2025 contract. 14:25:57 I think it ends in 24, and they need to renew inside for 2025 is what it appeared in the email I received. I just put down the cost. 14:26:05 Dashman. A. Oh, yeah. 14:26:07 I don't know. 14:26:15 I could see a sticky wicket there, too. 14:26:19 I'm just being devil's advocate. I understand desperate need like I said my 1st when I 1st thought about this, and I attend that with uh. 14:26:29 The representative from the Tn. 14:26:31 I didn't even think beyond, hey, let's get a bigger. What a great idea! Talk to Dave! It's like, well, I don't really want to replace home safety, but. 14:26:40 Yeah, we could use both. That would be. 14:26:44 Yeah, I mean by the uh. 14:26:46 Right. The only other thing I can think of is that. 14:26:49 Simple service could potentially do some sort of. 14:26:52 An Interview. 14:26:53 Of. 14:26:54 The 2 lists and then develop your list to us, based off. 14:26:59 Pulls it in. So you filter those 2. 14:27:02 Candidates candidates from either. So then, that brings up another question. 14:27:05 Kind of off base. But not really. Yeah. 14:27:08 So a long time ago, like when Lafers got hired, and you probably remember this. Um. 14:27:13 We did the testing in house like, literally Uh Civil Service. 14:27:17 Did the testing of Jim from school. 14:27:19 So it was like the person actually came to Chimacon County before they. I knew about that. But I never came to reduce the school. We'd use one of the classrooms. We do the written test. 14:27:28 And then they would literally store. 14:27:30 Right there. Whoever passed got to go out to the exercise field, and you do your push ups, your run. 14:27:35 And then your your scores from that were all calibrated and literally by the end of the day, probably the next day you got your scores, and you were. You ranked on the list. 14:27:46 Which, and I'm not asking for that. I'm asking to do scores. 14:27:48 But. 14:27:49 The thing is, it seems like the only thing that we're requiring now for civil services for them to pass the test public safety or Ntn. 14:27:57 In there on the list. 14:27:59 So there's been no interview. And so basically, the way it was before is you would do your you would do your test. You do your physical and faster fail. You come in for an interview. Civil service. 14:28:08 And then, based upon the scores they total together, and you ranked. 14:28:12 Which to me made more sense, because now it's not all based upon your test, your ranking. It's based upon your written and your your actual interview. 14:28:21 So it's like a 50 50, you know, way on both of those. So there's actually a ranking from Civil service. 14:28:26 Whereas now, literally, you go in and do a test with 50 different agencies. And then you score number one, cause you're a really good test taker. And now you're you know you're the 1st guy in the list. Well, the guy might be a complete idiot. 14:28:38 Yeah, he tests good, you know. And now he's the number one applicant. It's like, well. 14:28:44 Right. If you had someone that you could interview. 14:28:46 Available. He interviewed poorly. Well, that guy's gonna come out like Number 10. 14:28:50 You know, saying it just doesn't seem like it's weighted correctly. I know it's just kind of a. 14:28:54 It's an extra thing to have to do to do uh. And and I asked to Steve about this because Steve would usually sit in our civil service on our boards. That we did, and the rankings that we got was strictly for public safety. You know they buy their scores. That's the score they're tested. I was able to get no other way to defend it. 14:29:12 Well, then, that's fine. There's, of course, not totally good with that. 14:29:15 But my thing is to ask that the 1st interview that we do where there's, you know, when when you guys present, or if it's Kristen present with us when we do the interview that that's the Civil Service. One. 14:29:27 So you that way, you can interview like 10 people. 14:29:30 And then rank them based upon their scores. 14:29:32 Then you have the you know the the top 3 top, you know, 5 to 3 that you could pull, and it seems like that would. 14:29:40 I know it's more time consuming. I would think it would be. 14:29:44 In the, in the overall scheme of things, I would think it would do less. 14:29:48 Because you don't have to. 14:29:50 Do the back of my board. I think what you're describing. Maybe in the last year or 2 it's. 14:29:56 Slipped into something else. But it used to be, it seems to me. 14:30:01 And then I go back to when we actually did the test at the high School, and there there was. 14:30:07 A list. 14:30:08 That included. 14:30:10 How you did on, on the written. 14:30:12 And and then you went to an oil board. 14:30:17 Rated you, and that was included somehow. And so you ended up on this one to 20 list. Let's say right. 14:30:25 And then the top 3 out of that. 14:30:29 We're when a vacancy occurs. 14:30:30 We would send to the sheriff the top 3 names, and and. 14:30:37 If he chose to. 14:30:39 You guys could have another board, another oral. 14:30:42 Um. 14:30:44 And and I think that was kind of a pass fail rather than. 14:30:47 Um. 14:30:50 But are we doing it differently now? I guess. 14:30:53 Several years. I mean, it's been literally one. There's 1 interview, and Steve is was present most of the time, because it kind of checked the box of, you know, having sisal service involved with it. 14:31:04 Um, but that was it. 14:31:06 And he were basically pulling scores from public safety. You know the way they came in the high scores. No. One, obviously. And so those are the top 3 that you could interview, and where you call if those guys had jobs and you just work your way down the list and pull them in, you know, in that order. 14:31:21 But in. 14:31:22 And how long? From testing to interview. 14:31:27 It depends. In this case, the gentleman scores boasted open. 14:31:31 2750. 14:31:32 We're interviewing. 14:31:34 That's kind of a rarity. They have vacancies. If you have media vacancies, then as soon as scores come in. 14:31:49 We don't have any vacancies. The candidate set on that list for a long time. Right then you call them up and say, Hey, oh, by the way, you know. 14:31:56 We've got a vacancy. Well, you know, a long ago I moved on to, you know, whatever. 14:32:05 So is there a way you can incorporate. 14:32:09 Just one touch. We'll give them an option. 14:32:12 Are for patrol and or corrections. 14:32:15 So you're doing one test for for actually, for both. 14:32:18 You would create 2 lists. 14:32:20 Because if if you've got. 14:32:23 2 or 3 guys say, no, I just want to be patrol. But you get 2 other guys are going. Well, you know. I'll take whichever comes open. 14:32:29 So he could be on the corrections list, and. 14:32:33 The identity list. I don't think there's any bar. 14:32:35 One person to be on 2 lifts at the current time. 14:32:41 My understanding is public. Safety's written test is the same for both patrol and corrections. The only differences, the physical. 14:32:48 Requirements are are different. 14:32:51 So you could take any consideration. 14:32:53 In your all your interview, or your physical. 14:32:56 You do, you do fiscal testing for these applicants? Well, they've actually done through public safety. So you know, and you can say, Well. 14:33:07 He can't pass a physical for the deputy. However, he would. He would work. 14:33:12 Great. 14:33:13 Corrections, and I mean, if the candidates understand this, are options. 14:33:18 No, they'd have to test for, and when they go to public safety they can have the option of their scores sent to action, and then you would just automatically show up on both lists. So we would have 2 lists. 14:33:30 For each, for each. 14:33:31 Well, that's not 2 lists for each position, one for corrections and 1, 2 guys, one guy on the same 2 list. Yeah. And that's that's a whole different deal. 14:33:41 Uh. 14:33:49 And. 14:33:51 If you had to pick one, you'd say we probably save you guys. 14:33:56 Currently, it's just the. 14:33:58 The biggest market. 14:34:00 Right now. 14:34:01 Applicants with. 14:34:03 All the different agencies that they're. 14:34:05 Doing in the local testing sites that they offer. 14:34:09 Wouldn't want. 14:34:11 Shortcut, our. 14:34:15 Like to including. 14:34:17 In. 14:34:18 Yeah, but. 14:34:19 Is there any way that you could put something in there that. 14:34:23 Due to the staffing levels which they've never been. This low right? Due to the staffing levels. We're gonna allow 2 lists, one staffing is which staff it will go back to one list. 14:34:34 Just to cause. 14:34:35 It's not going to be an issue with, you know the guys on that list literally. You know, we have 6 openings, and you rule 3. 14:34:44 Well, there's 18 people that you interview the list now one. So I mean, it's. 14:34:49 It's not really gonna be an issue until we get fully staffed, and then it'll be an issue. 14:34:52 But if it's just an intern thing because of this crisis, I mean we I mean, that's we've all experienced covid. We did a lot of stuff during Covid that we'd never done before. We close businesses and closed restaurants. I mean, because of, you know, there's this crisis. Well. 14:35:12 Um. 14:35:15 Well, we need something to protect ourselves. 14:35:18 Our agencies. 14:35:20 For losing a manpower, but they can't operate anymore. 14:35:22 And and that way that you're you're putting the current employees. 14:35:26 At risk. Yep. 14:35:27 I mean as well. No, that that's all. Part of the equipment risk is. 14:35:32 Is. 14:35:34 For now it's a save, but it's gonna affect more. Then it's gonna affect your families, Yup, you know, and a dad or mom is gone constantly, and now you got a family issue. 14:35:43 And no, I. 14:35:44 No, I agree we something has to be done for an emergency situation. If anything. 14:35:56 Really no, i i i don't. 14:35:59 They! 14:36:01 See anything wrong with that. 14:36:03 With those vacancies. 14:36:05 Need to be filled as rapidly as possible. 14:36:09 Uh. 14:36:11 You, how we, how we do that. 14:36:15 Well, one thing we could probably do is we can check with other boards to see if they have some kind of emergency clause. 14:36:22 Well. 14:36:25 I was thinking it might be easier. 14:36:28 To check with both of those groups. 14:36:31 National and public. 14:36:34 And see if they would. 14:36:36 Work off the same sheet of music. 14:36:38 That we're the same. You got 2. You've got competitors. 14:36:42 Yeah, I think honestly, whatever it is. 14:36:46 Yeah, changing this, you're gonna be setting precedence. If you do this, which is, I mean, we just want people right? I think once. And I don't really see. 14:36:57 The issue. I mean, I understand what you're saying. We're fully staffed at one vacancy. We have 2 tests, and that guy sues because he wasn't. 14:37:02 Totally understand that don't want that to happen. But until I don't see why we couldn't have like an emergency clause. 14:37:09 Due to the pricing the shortage in our staffing until we're fully staffed. 14:37:14 We're going to allow second list. 14:37:16 Just to get the numbers in, so we can get staffing. 14:37:20 So I mean, I think, or until. 14:37:24 There's a lot of power getting power to do that, and. 14:37:26 And tell the list. 14:37:29 Is. 14:37:30 Might even be better to say that the lists be. 14:37:35 Been staffing the school. 14:37:38 You had 2 lists that are full. It's like, how do you? Where it's sapping is like, okay, we're just not gonna accept. 14:37:44 You know which one of the testing that? Well, no, yeah, we'll know by name which one you know. Where does the better candidates for the most candidates you could set the. 14:37:55 Andy in the. 14:37:57 Totally. All you have to do is is basically call, you know, national testing network. And say, we're on new vacancies. And then when someone was a test they can't check, because it's not there right. 14:38:07 So. 14:38:07 That's pretty easy to stop that. 14:38:09 The numbers come in. 14:38:13 You guys got way. More experience with this than me where you think it. 14:38:19 I think I understand what public safety testing. 14:38:22 The candidate actually. 14:38:25 Checks the boxes of what agency they want to be considered at. Is that how the national testing. 14:38:31 Works as well. I mean. 14:38:33 How does that work? There's gotta be. 14:38:36 Hundreds on the list out of the candidates figured this out. We're gonna hope they screw up and they start Jefferson County. No, I don't know yet a good question. I don't think I don't know if it's really national testing. I don't know if it's really across the United States. 14:38:55 I know it's like in the Western States. 14:38:57 Um. I mean, I would hope that they'd have the word all to realize that it's every country Washington. 14:39:03 They would probably don't want that applicant. If they think they're in Colorado. 14:39:06 So I'm sure they have a similar marketing strategy, public safety where they have, like you, wanna apply across the board, check this box. Well, that's what Cj does. Now, is that what they do say? Who do you want us to send your results to? Yeah. And they have the option. Just send no send. All right. 14:39:24 Right. And they're like, who are you told me? Oh, okay, I think the big plus with. 14:39:30 The national testing network is they have, like. 14:39:32 They do a little bit more recruiting and public safety does. 14:39:36 Cause I mean public safety. You really need to be like tunnel to to public safety. And then, okay, you figure out how to test from there, but you need to know to get there, whereas. 14:39:45 National testing network uses like Linkedin and other sources to like push information out. 14:39:50 So that people see it. Oh, I could test that, you know, to kind of get more people. I think those are. They claimed they get more people. They use different resources versus just being a standalone. 14:40:00 Once people come to you, they can test. 14:40:03 Well, then, I guess the the next. 14:40:06 Question is. 14:40:08 So we're we're currently paying. 14:40:10 Probably send you Dustin. It looks to me like. 14:40:14 1,800 bucks a year, or something like that. And what would we be paying these guys? National testing has $500 a year. 14:40:21 Another reference. 14:40:22 Yeah. 14:40:24 And does that cover both corrections? And it's just. I just wanted to do it for corrections. 14:40:28 As well, cause I wanna try it out. 14:40:30 And see for you. 14:40:32 I mean it makes sense to, because then all of us also, we don't have the the crisis currently on patrol. We don't have any vacancies. 14:40:39 So I can't really argue about me. 2 lists. 14:40:41 Whereas corrections is pretty easy to argue, plus. It gives us a time to see how well national testing does. 14:40:48 I wasn't aware of just for questions. Okay, that makes a. 14:40:52 Makes a little bit more sense. 14:40:54 What do you think about a. 14:40:56 Tied with it. They could be extended for this emergency. 14:40:59 So say we give it a year. 14:41:03 I'd really just do it, based on. 14:41:06 I I agree. I mean, they can set their numbers. Once I go below 4 offices I gotta do something. 14:41:12 You know. I know we were able to do that, for, like the Jeff come contract, you know, once they're under staff, you know. If they work somewhere, there's only hours they get paid double time. 14:41:20 Because of the overtime that they're occurring back there. 14:41:22 Once they get up to a staffing level, and that stops and over time it's just time to happen. 14:41:26 So there's there's different things looked into their contract. I know it's the contract. 14:41:33 Yeah, I'd be good. 14:41:37 Well. 14:41:39 I don't recall. Was there a motion made that we we know. 14:41:44 No, there was a motion was made to extend for more research, and if you're interested I can, we have. Do you have another meeting scheduled on the 20. 14:41:52 I believe in this month. 14:41:55 And for a regular meeting, and I could reach out to other civil service and see how their testing is of which one they use. And if they use both, and or if they even have like an emergency, I'd be okay with that. 14:42:08 But I will. Don't want to keep kicking. This can down if it enough to. 14:42:13 To. 14:42:14 Require different. 14:42:16 Outlooks of things. Then it's urgent enough that we need to take action. 14:42:21 Um. 14:42:24 And so. 14:42:27 I think we need to formulate some sort of. 14:42:32 Plan. 14:42:33 Pivot. 14:42:35 Get some more folks moving in here. 14:42:37 Well, I do, too, but I like um. 14:42:40 Which requires a language of some sort. But still this is new to us, and there are some bigger agencies out there that I'm sure have something that that could help us. 14:42:49 And I'd be I'd be gained. 14:42:52 Putting this off to like, I say, our next day. 14:42:55 Right. But if we can get that information back. 14:43:00 With it with all the categories, the emergency staffing. 14:43:04 Whatever other questions we need to ask, that we could research that. 14:43:07 And then hopefully have an answer. 14:43:10 At our next meeting. Well, and at least a little better, something to write. 14:43:14 Oh, exactly. Yeah. Cause right now, we're just we're going to say blind. 14:43:18 We have no knowledge of. 14:43:21 I certain things I mean the thing of it is there? There may be no other agency. 14:43:25 That does both. There may be no other agency that has an emergency clause. You guys may be breaking the ground well, and if that's the case. Then then we need to, you know, have something. 14:43:35 Hey, Phil, is it. 14:43:37 There's a staff, but it'd be it'd be good. We had something. 14:43:41 A framework to work from. 14:43:44 Not that next meeting, regardless of what we find out. You know what kind of language. 14:43:48 Yeah, went to right in. Yeah. And I'm I'm gonna try and. 14:43:52 Figure out something it would. I think it's a standalone document. 14:43:58 Um. 14:43:59 Because it is emergency. It's just an appended standalone. I don't know. What do we need in a standalone document, or just add it to here with a just an emergency clause. The end with the end result, be about. But I mean just to just to get through them. 14:44:17 Well, 2 things we need to act on this fast because he's these folks need help. 14:44:19 Yeah, that's the best way that we could do and get it done the fastest way and legal way that we can get it done. Yeah. 14:44:25 And plagiarizing language is always better than making it up yourself. 14:44:29 How many are you down right now? 5. 14:44:32 Wow! 14:44:33 Um, and I had. 14:44:35 Let's go back to my emails. But there was a staffing survey done. 14:44:39 Believe it was from Cjt. Or Wasp. 14:44:42 I'll go back to my email. Um. 14:44:45 But we were. 14:44:47 One of the highest group. 14:44:50 Staffing vacancies. Like, I think we're at 50% where most places we're at about 3.rd 14:44:55 Well, then, you know, I'll try and find that, and all that needs to happen is is the bad thing. 14:45:02 Yeah, and. 14:45:03 Then then somebody in a black role. There's gonna be telling us. 14:45:06 How to do this rather than us. 14:45:08 I don't know if Gwen reaches up to a big city, though, is going to help us under clause. No, it won't. I mean, I think smaller agencies. 14:45:18 That are that are comparable to Jefferson County. 14:45:22 Well, but you're right. Information from both would be. 14:45:26 Appreciated most counties. Going to have a jail. Is that correct? I don't. 14:45:30 I shouldn't say. Not all counties have to jail me. There's probably but 20. 14:45:36 15. 14:45:38 Yes. 14:45:39 Yeah, no, there's 39 counties. 14:45:42 I don't. Yeah. 14:45:45 Both the trustees. You can temporarily swear this isn't the part that I switch. 14:46:03 That in trouble we'll get back. 14:46:06 Bye. 14:46:10 Okay, anyways, all the motion in that we. 14:46:12 Put this off till our next meeting, and. 14:46:16 Try to obtain as much information as we can. 14:46:18 And that's on the 23.rd 14:46:22 That's a ranger too far down the road. But I I agree, if somebody mentioned it earlier, I don't. I don't want a ticket down the road anymore. I mean, we we take some action, or we don't. Well. 14:46:34 I'm fearful that. 14:46:36 Like you guys both pointed out, somebody's gonna get hurt. 14:46:39 Well, one way or another. I mean, that hurt may be driving home because they're tired. 14:46:46 I know many guys that have crashed because of too much. I mean, it comes in a lot of different formulas that don't necessarily mean somebody get hurt at work. 14:46:55 But and so I'm fearful of that. I it's it's not a. It's not a low stress job. 14:47:04 Nolan. 14:47:04 So, okay. 14:47:08 Can't be seconded. My motion and. 14:47:11 The table. I I wouldn't. I wasn't sure you're done. 14:47:13 Volume cause I thought I bought it in. Well, you did. 14:47:25 Alright! 14:47:26 Alright with the reservation. 14:47:28 You hear that scan rattling. 14:47:32 Scale uses their home cups. So is that the only thing that we. 14:47:38 Down the road from the last one. I don't know the the. 14:47:43 We have 2, the chief examiner issue, so you can see on the one sheet here. 14:47:50 Is, I reached out to our comparable counties and other counties throughout. 14:47:55 The State just to find out who is their chief examiner, and who is also their secretary, and these are the results I got back from the various counties, who returned my emails. 14:48:07 And most of our comparables and a lot of their state. It's all generally fallen on the human resources department. 14:48:15 Along with the secretaries. Also in the human resources department. There's. 14:48:19 Lewis County, who has a separate. 14:48:21 Secretary, Chief Examiner that comes in who's not working for the county, and then the other 2, Walla Wall, in Civic county, have the Commissioner's office. 14:48:30 Mm-hmm. With doing both, and they generally fall under the Hr. Department. Some of the chief examiners are the Hr. Director. Some are the Hrs secretaries, or sometimes specialists, or the Generalists also, or in some in very in. Some, are also combined. 14:48:45 Secretary and chief examiner, same person. 14:48:49 We have not yet received any applications. 14:48:56 He's still volunteering. 14:48:58 Yeah, I think that it's. 14:48:59 It's. 14:49:00 Appropriate. I just find the example of all these other agencies for it to become. 14:49:06 Port, to move resources. 14:49:08 Because we have a team. 14:49:11 Here, support. 14:49:11 The Commission. 14:49:13 And um. 14:49:15 They can be can designate the HR. Director, and that would be HR. Director or my designee. We have the secretary. 14:49:23 And I would be the chief examiner or designee that. 14:49:28 Somewhere else. But I wouldn't do that. 14:49:30 Right away. If I was gonna do that. 14:49:32 Um. 14:49:33 And. 14:49:34 You know, I agree that it's the best place for to land, since we are familiar with logs and. 14:49:41 Federal regulations regarding your resources were more familiar with that thing that you're. 14:49:47 We have resources how to put tests together. 14:49:50 We know who to work with. 14:49:54 Yeah, it makes sense. Me. 14:49:56 Put Steve on speed dial for anything. 14:49:58 Yeah. And if it were, if the board does, a commission chose to move in this direction. 14:50:04 We definitely meet with Steve and have some training, and him providing all the information regarding. 14:50:12 Work he's done over the years and. 14:50:13 I'm sure you'd be open to phone calls. 14:50:20 You know. And I think the relationship is that. 14:50:25 The. 14:50:26 Hearing Examiner. 14:50:27 The testing Examiner would come to the meeting. 14:50:30 Would be working with the board would be. 14:50:36 I would be providing that information, that service. 14:50:38 There are some ah! 14:50:41 Adaptation to the Civil Service Commission role. That would mean to take place. Yeah, if that were to happen. 14:50:50 So seeing no other choice. 14:50:53 Well, yeah, we move that we move on to Hr. Is the chief executive. 14:51:00 Or whatever title that then becomes. 14:51:03 Yeah, I'm um, not sure exactly how we would. Basically, if if we did that, we would basically be doing away with a position, I think, wouldn't we. 14:51:14 There'd still be a chief exam I was reading through the roles earlier today, so it would have to be that the appointment of the chief examiner would go to human resources. 14:51:27 Yeah, I think, I think that. 14:51:29 All we need is this. 14:51:30 Is a draft document. 14:51:33 I think we need to. 14:51:36 1st establish that we're gonna do that, and then. 14:51:39 Worry about the mechanics we could bring in next time. The. 14:51:45 1st draft of what that changed to the rules would look like. 14:51:49 And then. 14:51:50 Be moving. That direction is always better. 14:51:53 Definitely we don't want to recreate. Can you attend on the 23.rd 14:52:01 And. 14:52:02 How do you do that without having this. 14:52:05 I'm pretty sure I'm open. It's been on the calendar all year. So yeah, I've had it on. 14:52:12 Okay, I think that I mean, I think that's a good idea. Okay, so that was my motion. Obviously, since we've. 14:52:19 Been. 14:52:20 Underwhelmed with. 14:52:21 Applicants. We gotta do something different. And. 14:52:25 In all cases. 14:52:26 You can only have. 14:52:28 Things for so long, and change has to come. 14:52:31 Yeah, you know. Eventually some changes have to be made. Many of the departments that I reached out to have been using departments since 2,02227.th Some. It's like. 14:52:44 2,009. 14:52:47 Big, dormant, shortest one. 14:52:48 Later. 14:52:50 I will reach out and get that in there, and I will go through the rules to see how they have it worded. 14:52:58 Well, I'll second dance motion. 14:53:01 All right. 14:53:03 The table, the table, and to bring on the Hr. Staff in the chief examiners role and work out the language. 14:53:15 Yeah, for a graph next trip. Yeah, alright. I mean, I'm hired. So yeah. 14:53:20 No, I would make the Hr. Director or designee as the chief examiner. 14:53:25 So I. 14:53:27 That'll be in your dress. 14:53:28 I can control and manage the process from. 14:53:32 Through resources. You never used to be so controlled. Staffing side. Oh, you know I always have been. 14:53:42 It just didn't help. 14:53:44 Dogs. 14:53:47 Moved and seconded. 14:53:49 All in favor, all in favor. Aye. 14:53:53 Alright! 14:53:55 So is there. Those are the 2 matters that we actually address at the moment. 14:54:04 Essentially the other one is approval of the amended Civil Service rules. Section 4, Rule 4. With the new classification support services, tick. 14:54:15 But. 14:54:16 The amended language of Job classification. 14:54:22 I'll second. 14:54:24 And. 14:54:24 We've all had a chance to read it. 14:54:26 Yep. 14:54:29 All in favor. 14:54:30 Hi, mark. 14:54:31 Good. 14:54:34 Um. 14:54:37 I don't. There isn't anything more that we can do about that. 14:54:42 The National Testing network. Um. 14:54:45 We do know what the fee would be, but. 14:54:51 Speaking of that, I will reach out and get more information from other counties and other civil service to see like what they're using. If they use pstn network and to see if they're using both. 14:55:10 If that was a way to do, it would be to. 14:55:15 Establish. 14:55:16 That you could use both lists, but the timing of it, so that. 14:55:21 That's in a rule. 14:55:23 But that is clearly. 14:55:25 Applied. 14:55:26 Mm-hmm. 14:55:27 To each. 14:55:28 Into lessons. 14:55:30 Instead of the. 14:55:31 Applicants on either list. 14:55:33 Would know. 14:55:34 How that application administration of that would. 14:55:38 Well, I'm in. 14:55:40 You may end up with. 14:55:43 8 candidate on both. That's right. 14:55:46 That'd be handy. 14:55:47 That'd be handy. 14:55:49 Well, yeah, candidate on both. 14:55:54 Candidate who would really. 14:55:56 Interested in getting in the game. 14:55:59 Seems like, but seems like that would be something you do. 14:56:02 I mean they they apply to various agencies, so. 14:56:07 Well. 14:56:08 Alrighty! 14:56:10 Is there anything else that we need to bring up for the good of the order, or just in general. 14:56:16 We're going to meet meet again on the 23, rd unless. 14:56:21 Something comes up. 14:56:22 In the interim. 14:56:23 We still have no other public comments, no other public comments. 14:56:28 Okay, I'm I'm going to adjourn the meeting. Oh, and it's now. 14:56:32 5 min to 3. 14:56:35 Thanks very much for coming. Everybody. Yeah, I appreciate. 14:56:38 Yeah, I'll try. I'll try to be more uh timely.